Should GGWO ask the Churches of Baltimore to forgive them

[daved (daved)]

The following quote by Pastor Tom Schaller is taken out of context,
but it does seem to indicate the mindset of Pastor Tom Schaller,
concerning the need of certain Christians to seek forgiveness of GGWO,
if they are in error.

<font color="ff0000">>>>
Hopefully people here will come to us and seek forgiveness
before their names are mentioned from the pulpit!!!!!”
>>></font>

Does the above quote by Pastor Schaller indicate
that if Pastor Schaller determined that GGWO was in error,
concerning their criticism of certain Churches in Baltimore,
that he as the chief elder of GGWO
would quickly go to those Christian Churches and ask their forgiveness?

Pastor Carl Stevens has stood in the pulpit of GGWO
and critiqued certain churches in Baltimore for being in error
when they teach that God's name is "Jehovah".

In the same message Pastor Carl Stevens has dogmatically taught
that God's name is "Yahweh",
a name that is found in no extant Hebrew text.

The GGWO statement of Faith reads:

<font color="0000ff">>>>
All Scripture contained in the Old and New Testaments
is verbally, plenarily, and inerrantly inspired by God.
It is the authoritative guide for all Christian understanding, life and ministry.
We believe in the exact equivalent method translation from the original languages.
>>></font>

If the name "Yahweh" is found in no extant Hebrew Text on the planet earth,
should GGWO ask the Churches of Baltimore to forgive them
for criticizing their use of "Jehovah"
which is based on the Hebrew Scriptures,
while they [GGWO] are teaching that God's name is "Yahweh"
a name which is found in no extant Hebrew text on the planet earth.

daved

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Dave,

I think it has been well-established that CHS and GGWO are *NOT* scholars of the original Biblical Langauges and constituent textual transmission issues. I know a GGWO missionary/pastor who when qustioned did not even know what the Texus Recptus is and it's significance in the history of Biblical Greek scholarship. What is more frightening is that this man gradated from MBC&amp;S and was teaching a course in Greek at a GGWO Bible "institute" overseas.

They are comfortable in their deception. Let us move on to more Godly, established things.

Brian Bowman
John 3:21

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Starting new threads for this tired old saw just makes it all the harder for teh "truth seekers" to find what they need here to extracate themselves from the web called GGWO they are ensnared in. Daved, to echo Brian, you would do a far greater service to those precious folks if you would just move on from the "Jehovah" issue. No salvation outside of GGWO/CarlStevens, among many others, are far greater dangers to the soul.

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[daved (daved)]

Ralph,

Is it safe to say that GGWO is marked as a Cult,
because they are not Sola Scriptura.

Is Pastor Carl Stevens' acknowledgement on The Grace Hour,
that he trusts the Greek writings of Clement of Alexandria,
and not the Hebrew Scriptures,
for his dogmatic teaching that God's name is "Yahweh",
sufficient evidence to recognize that GGWO is a cult?

Ralph,

Will you start a new thread
in which you state that you believe that GGWO can be marked as a cult
because they are trusting in the writings of Clement of Alexandria,
for their dogmatic teaching that God's name is "Yahweh".

I will provide you with a link to The Grace Hour broadcast, if you want it.

daved

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Daved - I will work within the existing threads to assist the people who have left, are tring to leave, or are in.

What they are basing certain things on states that much doctrine is aberrant! However, there is a big step from aberrant to cult.

They ARE "cultish" because of the manipulative use of scriptures and applications to control people. Even though they seem to add CHS to the salavation package they do not teach an aberrant doctrine about Chirst! Thye fail the cult test for that. But again, they are "cultish" in that they "defy" scripture and use "mind control" to keep people in. An THAT is my concern people!! When students are told that their parents and home pastors are evil, it is like putting them against a wall and killing them spiritually!

Daved - your "agenda" helps none of the wounded! IMHO it only makes the undecided "dig there heels in further." They are looking for help, not theological discourse.

I asked you once and you never answered me, WERE YOU EVER IN TBS/GGWO? That is a valid question.

Finally Daved, and if this sounds judgmental, so be it, you are sounding just like Stevens, "I am right, you are wrong." Sheesh, get over it.

[daved (daved)]

Ralph,

I have answered you previously that I was present at Pastor Carl Stevens' Bible Studies in Framingham Massachusetts in the rough years 1976-1987.

I spent 2-3 weeks at The Bible Speaks Bible College in South Berwick Maine [1975]
at which time I was "marked"
[for about 20 minutes],
when a member of TBS to whom I was talking to in the cafeteria,
got up an left because of a comment that I had made.

Ralph,

Are you saying that if the only questionable teaching of GGWO was that God's name was "Yahweh",
and if you yourself heard Pastor Carl Stevens and Pastor Steve Stevens both acknowledge
that they were trusting in the Greek writings of Clement of Alexandria for that name "Yahweh",
that that alone would not be sufficient evidence to mark GGWO as a cult?

Ralph, Do you believe that God's name is "Yahweh"?
Do you address God as "Yahweh" in your prayers?

daved

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Daved - Sorry, I forgot you did tell me that. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

No, God's name is not "jehovah!" But you know what, if someone believes that it is His name that is not going to send them to hell! It is not going to cause people to be controlled! It is not going to cause people to be abused!

Actually Daved, call God what He said to "I am that I am." As to me, when I pray I follow Jesus' example I call Him "Father." When I speak to others it is usually about Jesus, but when I speak of God the Father it is just that, or God the Almighty One, Creator, Everlasting Father, etc., and etc.

What I do see in you Daved is a man who is all consumed with his take on doctrine and has no room to help the people who need to be delivered from Carl Stevens, NOT the name "jehovah." You spent very little time in TBS, there are folks on here who spent much to most of their lives in TBS?GGWO, AND THEY ARE HEMORRAGING! Let's do something important to God and help them, what say?

I am not really angry with you Daved, but I am angry at the distraction you are causing, especially at this very crtical time in GGWO people's lives.

The whole "jehova" issue would be better placed on it's very own thread at the opening page of FactNet, not on the GGWO section. IMHO. Especially since this it is now so cumbersome to begin with.

Thanks Daved,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[forte (forte)]

Please leave daved alone. He needs to work this out and he's come a long way.

[daved (daved)]

Ralph,

If GGWO's trust in the Greek writings of Clement of Alexandria,
is not enough to label GGWO as a cult,
then GGWO appears to remain a Christian Church,
whose elders have many human failings.

Possibly is should be noted more often on FACTNet
that GGWO is a legitimate Christian Church,
that is guilty of excessive human or spiritual pride,
and possibly guilty of some incorrect theology,
but still a legitimate Christian Church,
AND DEFINITELY NOT A CULT.

Of course if GGWO is not a cult,
why is it being discussed on FACTNet,
under the heading "Religious Cults and Sects"?

Is GGWO guilty of only being a Christian sect?

daved

P.S. Pastor Schaller is live on The Grace Hour at this time.

(Message edited by daved on April 29, 2005)

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Daved - CHS' beef is with the "Jehovah's witnesses," I cannot even say he has ever read Clement.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[daved (daved)]

Ralph,

I can give you a link to a Grace Hour Archive,
where Pastor Carl Steven's acknowledges his trust in the Greek Writings of Clement of Alexandria,

Pastor Carl Stevens' beef is with an Evangelical Bible
[i.e. the King James Bible which he uses in the pulpit]
that calls God by the name "Jehovah".

Of course Pastor Carl Stevens has a beef with Jehovah's Witnesses,
but he also has a beef with Bible Believing Southern Baptists
who in good faith call God by the name "Jehovah".

He also has a beef with any GGWO Pastor who calls "Jesus" Jehovah.
[e.g. Jehovah incarnate]
Pastor Carl Stevens has said that such a pastor is ignorant and needs to repent.

daved

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Daved - I wish you were not so far away, I think it would be a lot more fun discoursing with you face to face.

BTW, I like Elohim and Adoni best.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

Have a great day.

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[dawn (dawn)]

A very boring hread. Almost silly.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Yawn,,,,thank you Dawn,,,I would only accept that form a cutie like you. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

Do you see what I mean Daved? This is not germain to anyone with a need on this site.

Blessings Bro, but let us depaet this venue.

Ralph
1COr 15:10

[daved (daved)]

While you all rest,
I will continue to mow my lawn.

Have a great noontime [Eastern time of course]:-)

daved

[dawn (dawn)]

I tried to start a new thread, guess I don't know how. Does anyone know how Pastor Stevens is? Any updates of behind the scenes of whats going on?

[daved (daved)]

Dawn,

Hit your back button,
to get to where you can see the entire list of GGWO threads.

Then scroll down to the bottom of the list.

You will see <u>Start New Thread</u> at the bottom left.

daved

[dawn (dawn)]

Daved, I still can't get through. I just want more updates on P.S. and other questions. I am new, but spent 9 yrs. in S,B. and Lenox. I have family still in Balt. There is alot of talk but not much news.

[daved (daved)]

dawn,

Unless someone on the inside is posting on Factnet,
most updates concerning Pastor Carl Stevens are learned on Sunday morning service On-line, or by listening to The Grace Hour which is heard Monday through Friday from 10:00 A.M. to 11:00 A.M. Eastern time. If you don't live in Baltimore, you may need to find someone who knows what station The Grace Hour is being broadcast on.

If you go to http://www.ggwo.org/tv/ on this Sunday morning, at exactly 10:20 A.M. Eastern time, they start to transmit the GGWO Sunday Service. It ends at about 12:00 Noon.

This past Sunday Pastor Stevens was not at the Sunday Morning Service, but was expected to be well enough to be at the Sunday Evening service,
but I didn't hear whether he was there or not.

At http://www.ggwo.org/grace_hour_archives.html,
you will find the Grace Hour Archives, and Pastor Stevens was on live on Wednesday April, 20, 2005, if you wanted to hear how he sounded on that day.

Pastor Stevens has some serious physical problems that he has to deal with.

daved

[itstimetomoveon (itstimetomoveon)]

Now that today being the first day of May we can take comfort in April's showers bring May's flowers. It's an old saying but true. A new reawakening for all those involved.
Many troublesome issues have been addressed and brought to the table by the Affiliated Church's. Mark Morin and Gerald Graziano, Alexey Klimenko and those in foreign countries have stepped up to the plate here to express what is happening with their receptive church. They have been given the voice for the majority of the affiliates here on this forum. For all that are truly concerned so you are made aware of the current standing that has taken place.

It's time to move on

[daved (daved)]

GGWO appears to have no problem moving on.

Each time another previous affiliated ministry leaves, GGWO takes the time to remove them from the present list of affiliated ministries, and then moves on, as if nothing had happened.

Try listening to "The Grace Hour" this week.
You will be amazed at how positive both the pastors and the callers are.

daved

[minutus (minutus)]

Daved,

I've never taken the time to thank you for monitoring the situation so closely. It's a great service to us all.

Dave C

[whitehorses (whitehorses)]

Try listening to "The Grace Hour" this week.
You will be amazed at how positive both the pastors and the callers are
..............................................
its called fake it til you make it

[yogi (yogi)]

AMEN Sister whitehorses!

<font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+2">YES </font></font> they should ask for the affiliates and those marked publicly's forgiveness for ALL to hear!

[minutus (minutus)]

EZE 34:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. 4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. 5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

EZE 34:7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; 8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; 9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; 10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

[anova (anova)]

That's the kind of Old Testament application I can really go for!