Pathetic Mentality of Many MBCampS Students

[yogi (yogi)]

QUOTE: <font size="-2">Please don't get the impression that I'm listening to negative reports against Pastor. If I get anything that seems like an attack, I stop reading immediately. I just get emails from some people who are worried about what's going on in Baltimore and I don't know what to tell them except for what I've heard...from people like you...</font>
To read more click the link below and click '2 comments'

http://www.livejournal.com/users/chenyehovah/

This brainwashing is very sad and frustrating indeed. Jesus save these poor folks!

yogi

(Message edited by yogi on May 04, 2005)

[yogi (yogi)]

The evil report this person is questioning was www.carlstevens.org (http://www.carlstevens.org) which was posted in her comment box.

yogi

[dawn (dawn)]

Josh doesn't seem to have much peace. He is in a constant battle with his flesh.His posts were almost disturbing.

[yogi (yogi)]

Sad but true. What did you think of the comments from the young woman on his May 4th journal? It freaks me out to think that they think they're having faith by living in denial!

yogi

[yogi (yogi)]

Yup, doris you've hit the proverbial nail on the head! I too was a GGWO worker ant until I slowly began to pull away from the 24-7 bit (all to the tune of being shamed for not following "god aka Carl" completely with my time)! It was only when I had a chance to slow down and process what was happening to me that I begin to realize just how brainwashed I really was; the constant "raps" praising pastor, outreach, Bible college classes...



yogi

[arguendo (arguendo)]

"Josh doesn't seem to have much peace."

Josh doesn't have any peace because he isn'tthinking his own thoughts. He's playing a part that he's never sure he's plaqying well.

The tragedy is his propensity for conflict avoidance. He's afraid his "truth" won't stand up to questions and conflicting information, so he avoids them. He's controlled by fear.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Let's all sing Pam Tillis' song (Or a modified version thereof)

Kings and Queens of Denial
Buyin' all the things he plies
Kings and Queens of Denial
Floatin' down a river of lies

[shat_happens (shat_happens)]

Well if you read his stuff, you can clearly see that Josh is only seeing what's directly in front of him. He keeps touting a revival but how can there be a real revival when 90% of the folks are leaving a sinking ship?

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

You know, the sad thing is that P. Anderson used to stand against CHS when he said things that were off. He was in deep doo doo for much of the 90's for that.

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

Anderson used to come into his classes and make comments on things he disagreed with all the time. Of course my thinking at the time resembled Josh's so I thought it was off. That was back in 83-84. Just another voice of reason silenced by the no talk rule.

We all bought the line about "listening to negative reports about Pastor." On another thread Tom Hinkley mentioned he'd never heard anything negative about Junior. I wonder why. We were indoctrinated. DON'T TALK ABOUT IT, DON'T LISTEN TO IT. It's a cult trademark.

Jim

[yogi (yogi)]

Excellent points all of you!
We must continue to pray for
those poor souls who are still
"buying beachfront property in Arizona"
so to speak, from GGWO's propaganda machine.

Gee, it reminds me of Hitler back in Nazi
Germany when he'd play his newsreels about the
dear Hebrews considered vermon.

GROSSED OUT!

yogi

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Fellow former (my case) and current MBC&amp;S students:

Here is a word definition to help us escape the clutches of Carl H. Stevens' miserable rhetorical legacy.

epistemology
noun
Philosophy the theory of knowledge, esp. with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion.


You see folks, a valid epistemology is exactly what CHS/TBS/GGWO *never* had. You basically have Carl's continual stream of non-sense derived from his own belief that God really did give him special revelation. Now we see Carl's spiritual descendants operating under the same flawed presuppositions.

Students (and if we have anything between our ears this is ALL OF US). Wise up, and get understanding. You are AS ANOINTED as ANY OTHER believer. Escaping the corruption of Carl's draconian legacy begins with getting "classical" critical thinking skills.

Don't be afraid to take many months and even years to get a great foundation in English (if you plan to live here in America), logic, rhetoric, etc. Yes, love God, yes witness for Christ, defend the Faith, study the Scriptures; but DO IT ALL "IN THE KNOW". Ask questions. Don't be duped by another evangelical snakeoil salesman grifting off the sacrifices of the flock.

... and ABOVE ALL: don't let ANYONE "guilt" you into believing that souls will go into Hell if you don't do such and such. This is just another form of manipulation that will ultimately keep you from being able to express Christ with true liberty.

Brian Bowman
1 Corinthians 1:30

(Message edited by nonotone on May 30, 2005)

[really (really)]

What does Anne think?

[really (really)]

Oh, really? I highly doubt that she agrees with you on every point. But who knows, there are snake oil salesmen and then there are snake oil salesman.Your snake oil comes right from the ol' serpent himself.

[really (really)]

Sorry if I touched a sensitive issue...

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

As a student at SSB in Lenox I said all the same things the MBC&amp;S students are saying...the only thing pathetic about it is that they are being used, manipulated, lied to and grieving the Holy Spirit due to spiritual rape.

They themselves are not to blame. We must continue to pray for them, to feed them whatever truth they can handle, and be there for them when the crap hits the fan...when they see with clarity, they will need us to understand...to be the Good Samaritan...to help them with compassion.

[nonotone (nonotone)]

... and just to make this crystal clear. I AM an Evangelical Christian who believes in the inerrancy of the Holy Scriptures, prays fervently, practices Evangelism, and edeavors to defend the faith in the midst of a highly intellectual and multi-cultural community - all with utter dependance upon the Holy Spirit.

Loving Jesus Christ and escaping the corruption that is in the world by lust is the greatest gift anyone can possess.

However, I don't believe in coercing ANYONE to do anything "for God" or in engendering an environment where such is the unspoken norm. Equipping people, in humility, with the best foundational language, logical thinking skills, and accurate understanding of history is a great safeguard in the devlopment of genuine faith and discernment throughout the Christian life.

In Christ,

Brian Bowman
1 Corinthians 1:30

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Amen Brian....

[yogi (yogi)]

Brian, you da bomb!
"really" what's your problem?
Just a GGWO troll checking out
reality?
Finding it hard to resist and must
try to discredit the witnesses of 52,000 posts?
This board is for those wanting to exit; are
you one of them?

yogi

[arguendo (arguendo)]

I don't think it's fair to blame the entire state of Massachusetts

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

Brian:

Take comfort in knowing that trolls strike by trying to distract folks from seeing truth. You must have hit a nerve. There is no need for you to defend yourself.

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Thanks Doris and Louise,

I AM very sensitive when it comes to my precious wife Anne and our marriage. I determined early on that NO ONE would even attempt to drive a wedge between us based upon historical affiliation with TBS/GGWO. Our marriage is a covenantal gift from God and will be never manipulated by the current woes of GGWO. Alan Lang, whom I've spoken with personally, gave me great admonition about this. Alan is SUCH A GENTLEMAN!

Brian Bowman
John 3:21

(Message edited by nonotone on May 04, 2005)

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Amen Brian! Give my love to Anne.

Arg.. you crack me up!

[yogi (yogi)]

Me too! Love that innuendo of the ironic "understatement" about gross generalities!

Sweet dreams about Daniel combing the beach!

Nightie Night Ladies,

yogi

[dave_drago (dave_drago)]

Really,

"Oh, really? I highly doubt that she agrees with you on every point. But who knows, there are snake oil salesmen and then there are snake oil salesman.Your snake oil comes right from the ol' serpent himself."

1. I want to make sure I am not passive aggressive in what I am about to say. Man to man (assuming you are a man or a poor excuse for one) you really are a complete coward. If I had to guess, you probably got your nerve up years ago (no small task for you I bet...good big boy!)and asked Anne out on a date and she didn't give you the time of day.

2. If you are going to take pots shots at a person's spouse you ought to have the brass to play the man and really show yourself.

3. Brian, you and Anne are dear sweet believers. God bless you.

4. "Really" I will pray for you that God blesses you with contrition,courtesy and courage, then you will be a man my son. No one can stomach a coward.

daviddrago@sbcglobal.net

For Him,
Dave

(Message edited by Dave Drago on May 05, 2005)

[really (really)]

You're right, I was way outta line. Sorry. Brian's attitude bugs me.

[dave_drago (dave_drago)]

Really,
Thank you for saying that. Brian is a very humble man who studies hard and thinks much. If you know him you can't help but love and appreciate not only his depth but his ongoing journey into truth, the doctrines of grace and freedom from the past. He is trophy of grace and good friend of mine.

Sola Gratia,
Dave

Good night and God bless.

[really (really)]

I only know him by the words he posts. God bless you. I won't post again.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Really - I do hope you will continue to post, we need all here. As to Brian and Anne, I have known them since they came to Baltimore, and they each, individually, became two of my very favorite people. When they announced they were getting married I told them how thrilled I was because they are truly a perfect complement. Two things that impressed me about Brian from the first moment I met him; his love for and devotion to the Word of God, and, his Spirit led walk. I remember when Gold told him to get rid of all but one of his guitars (had six? as I recall), he did not seel them, rather he prayed about who to give them to. I will never forget the look on Vadim Yanevskyia's face when he was the recipient of Brian's very expensive classical guitar. (Sorry to embarrass you like this Brian) I only share this to show you what kind of a man he is. He is also a very serious student of the Bible. Now he and I may not agree on everything, he being a Presbyterian and me a (an eternally secure)Pentecostal, but we will stand side by side on all the key issues and love one another in ALL the areas we do not agree on.

So Really, please stay with us and enjoy the walk. It really is fun.

Blessings,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Ralph,

Thank you for your kind comments and memories. Those sure were interesting times back in 1995-97. Meeting Anne was what God used to finally "unbreak" my heart and I'm glad that you were part of that joy! Presbyterian-smesbyterian, the important thing is that we worship JC as in JESUS CHRIST not as in John Calvin http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

Captian Drago (he really is folks - ARMY RANGER at that), thanks for jump'in the fox hole with me.

_"really"_ don't sweat it. I can be a little "sharp" sometimes in my own rhetoric, but I really don't consider 9 years in GG wasted at all. In fact I have much more pity for Carl then I do contempt. The fact is that Carl progressively became an insecure little Evangelical "mini-pope" and nearly all of us "enabled" this to one degree or another.

"On any given Sunday" American Evangelicalism has several such Evangelical "mini-popes" reigning from coverted Strip Malls, purchased Sports Arenas, or custom-built air-conditioned Basilicas with muli-milllion dollar audio/TV systems. In this respect the GGWO "abode" is pretty huble. However, his preaching style and vision for missions set him apart. Let's face it, in spite of all the crapulence, God has sovereignly used GG to motivate 100's into some form of missions or Christian service. It's just sad that at the end of his life, CHS has to witness so much upheaval, caused directly by his own isolation from and lack of accountability to the larger Body of Christ.


Becasuse of His Mercy,


Brian Bowman
John 3:21

(Message edited by nonotone on May 30, 2005)

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

Brian,

Very well put. Thank you.

[yogi (yogi)]

Brian, what kind of guitar music did, or do, you play?
I know somebody who plays classical guitar amazingly,and it's not Dominic D'Piazza, though he's fantastic too!

yogi

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

The more I am here the more I am realizing that there are friends of mine posting here. Please feel free to email me.

I need the fellowship and I promise never to reveal who you are. For those who have emailed me Heaven will only reveal what these emails have meant to me.

I thought I lost all my friends when I took a stand and left. I was marked even by people that are here.

I am so thankful God has opened our eyes and I am no longer wondering if I should have posted the posts I did telling the stories of my kids and I.

I now know it has helped others. And it is on that note that I ask Margo and Really not to leave.

When I first came to the board last year in February I was very confused but a loyalist to GG. The longer I stayed and prayed and read and talked to 2 elders the more I realized what I saw 2 years ago was right on.

Even with the affirmation of JG, DS, DL, SR, EL etc I was still fearful I was off. This year on FN has released and freed me.

And it has connected me with long lost friends. For that and much more I praise God. I pray that Tom Schaller would "quit ye like a man" and start responding to letters and to those who have left.

I know from my sources on staff and elders that he fought for power and I am saddened by this. If the Fins and Central Asians could have been in the Elders meetings and in the Missions office during certain meetings they would see another side of Tom.

I have seen it. He speaks words that sound good and tickle ears but the words he speaks are not all Bible.

The problem is when one is codependent on a "personable" leader they tend to get lazy in personal study searching out what they were taught and focus on the one or 2 scripture verses spoken from the podium.

Jacqui kept encouraging me 2 years ago without telling me a thing to use my critical thinking skills with the Holy Spirit.

That was the beginning of God opening my eyes. It was a process because in a sense losing your church is similar to having your baby taken away from you at birth. It is a very painful situation.

God leads us gently and Jesus said I have many words to say unto you but you are not yet ready to hear them.

People just coming to the realization will not have the rug pulled out from under them by God. It will be gently.

That is another reason why while we can have humor we must be careful not to scare others away who are wondering and fearful.

Sorry so many words. Thoughts just keep flooding my mind and I had to write them down.

God bless you my dear brothers and sisters. I am up so late because pain keeps sleep from me. But these painful night seasons are sweet with Him.

Christianity is quite a paradox in so many ways. I tend to think God allows this also so that No Flesh will Ever Glory in His Presence and He is everywhere present.

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

The more I am here the more I am realizing that there are friends of mine posting here. Please feel free to email me. inmercyrejoice@hotmail.com

I need the fellowship and I promise never to reveal who you are. For those who have emailed me Heaven will only reveal what these emails have meant to me.

I thought I lost all my friends when I took a stand and left. I was marked even by people that are here.

I am so thankful God has opened our eyes and I am no longer wondering if I should have posted the posts I did telling the stories of my kids and I.

I now know it has helped others. And it is on that note that I ask Margo and Really not to leave.

When I first came to the board last year in February I was very confused but a loyalist to GG. The longer I stayed and prayed and read and talked to 2 elders the more I realized what I saw 2 years ago was right on.

Even with the affirmation of JG, DS, DL, SR, EL etc I was still fearful I was off. This year on FN has released and freed me.

And it has connected me with long lost friends. For that and much more I praise God. I pray that Tom Schaller would "quit ye like a man" and start responding to letters and to those who have left.

I know from my sources on staff and elders that he fought for power and I am saddened by this. If the Fins and Central Asians could have been in the Elders meetings and in the Missions office during certain meetings they would see another side of Tom.

I have seen it. He speaks words that sound good and tickle ears but the words he speaks are not all Bible.

The problem is when one is codependent on a "personable" leader they tend to get lazy in personal study searching out what they were taught and focus on the one or 2 scripture verses spoken from the podium.

Jacqui kept encouraging me 2 years ago without telling me a thing to use my critical thinking skills with the Holy Spirit.

That was the beginning of God opening my eyes. It was a process because in a sense losing your church is similar to having your baby taken away from you at birth. It is a very painful situation.

God leads us gently and Jesus said I have many words to say unto you but you are not yet ready to hear them.

People just coming to the realization will not have the rug pulled out from under them by God. It will be gently.

That is another reason why while we can have humor we must be careful not to scare others away who are wondering and fearful.

Sorry so many words. Thoughts just keep flooding my mind and I had to write them down.

God bless you my dear brothers and sisters. I am up so late because pain keeps sleep from me. But these painful night seasons are sweet with Him.

Christianity is quite a paradox in so many ways. I tend to think God allows this also so that No Flesh will Ever Glory in His Presence and He is everywhere present.

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

The more I am here the more I am realizing that there are friends of mine posting here. Please feel free to email me. inmercyrejoice@hotmail.com

I need the fellowship and I promise never to reveal who you are. For those who have emailed me Heaven will only reveal what these emails have meant to me.

I thought I lost all my friends when I took a stand and left. I was marked even by people that are here.

I am so thankful God has opened our eyes and I am no longer wondering if I should have posted the posts I did telling the stories of my kids and I.

I now know it has helped others. And it is on that note that I ask Margo and Really not to leave.

When I first came to the board last year in February I was very confused but a loyalist to GG. The longer I stayed and prayed and read and talked to 2 elders the more I realized what I saw 2 years ago was right on.

Even with the affirmation of JG, DS, DL, SR, EL etc I was still fearful I was off. This year on FN has released and freed me.

And it has connected me with long lost friends. For that and much more I praise God. I pray that Tom Schaller would "quit ye like a man" and start responding to letters and to those who have left.

I know from my sources on staff and elders that he fought for power and I am saddened by this. If the Fins and Central Asians could have been in the Elders meetings and in the Missions office during certain meetings they would see another side of Tom.

I have seen it. He speaks words that sound good and tickle ears but the words he speaks are not all Bible.

The problem is when one is codependent on a "personable" leader they tend to get lazy in personal study searching out what they were taught and focus on the one or 2 scripture verses spoken from the podium.

Jacqui kept encouraging me 2 years ago without telling me a thing to use my critical thinking skills with the Holy Spirit.

That was the beginning of God opening my eyes. It was a process because in a sense losing your church is similar to having your baby taken away from you at birth. It is a very painful situation.

God leads us gently and Jesus said *paraphrased* "I have many words to say unto you but you are not yet ready to hear them."

People just coming to the realization will not have the rug pulled out from under them by God. It will be gently.

That is another reason why while we can have humor we must be careful not to scare others away who are wondering and fearful.

Sorry so many words. Thoughts just keep flooding my mind and I had to write them down.

God bless you my dear brothers and sisters. I am up so late because pain keeps sleep from me. But these painful night seasons are sweet with Him.

Christianity is quite a paradox in so many ways. I tend to think God allows this also so that No Flesh will Ever Glory in His Presence and He is everywhere present.

[yogi (yogi)]

Nancy,
You are so right that God leads us gently. I have heard, and experienced my self, His protection. He knew we were wrapped in the wiles of the corruption found at Moravia Park Drive, all in His name, but still captured by the deception. Thankfully, in His mercy a lack of anointing from the pulpit was discerned in my heart as I sat in service after service wondering why I was going to a church where I was getting nothing out of it spiritually. Toward the close of my tenure at GGWO He brought me a friend who had the same sentiments so we both decided to look elsewhere for spiritual growth. Gratefully, this was months before the real issues hit the fan. By the time the Lang affair and "pastor's" addiciton came out I was long gone and not looking back! (But not without morning and pain.)
I'm glad that He got you out of this corrupt system too. Apparently, he used your terrible season of your illness to break the ties and open your eyes. God bless you Nancy and thank you for being a godly and integral voice on FACTNet.

Hugs,

yogi

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Students one and all,

A GREAT place to begin getting our presuppostions ordered is with this summary article on Cornelius Van Til at:

http://www.logos.com/media/productinfo/VanTilMadeMeReformed.pdf

Enjoy,


Brian Bowman