Definitions

[bonniescott (bonniescott)]

Greatness By Definition-

My mother believes
There is nobility in pain
When you ask how she is
She closes herself up in it
And says "Great"
Without becoming the lie.

There is a world
Of weight and meaning
In that one word;
Not merely in its utterance
but behind its utterance
And behind her eyes.

My mother feels molded by suffeing.
As though greatness were encased
In its solitary possession.

She is not "Great"
Because she is doing well;
She is "Great"
Because she is not.

There is religious fervor
Behind the word.
She is Jesus on the cross.
She is Job being tested.
She is Jonah in the belly of the whale.

Gold purified in the fires of life.

When I phone her,
Just to see how she is,
She never answers, "Pretty good", or "O.K."
She always answers, "Great."

And across the miles
I see a flicker of triumph
In her eyes,
And hear the thud
Of a heavy metal door
As it closes;
Lock rotating and
Settling into place.

I am outside.
We talk about the weather.

- Laura Morrison}

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

Poignant!

[calv (calv)]

you know!?!! too...
how sad
its eather the weather
or who died

thanks...

[bonniescott (bonniescott)]

Thank You.
I wrote that poem about ten years ago about my mother who has been a member of TBS/GG for the past 40 years. It was published by the local anthology the Berkshire Review} in 1997.}

[calv (calv)]

it paints a crystal clear picture,of what an unhealthy church can do to people.....
it robs the most important need
every child has....
a relationship with family.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Bonnie,

Your mother's words are the words of every abused woman in TBS/GG.

It was survival to think and speak that way. there was no escape except that.

[calv (calv)]

yes

the words of every abused woman...
survival
no escape

its showing the system in place.
how it works.
the deception.

why do we go to church???

[bonniescott (bonniescott)]

40 years, its nearly a lifetime, and I could never really reach or get through to her. It's one of the great sorrows of my life.

But I didn't post this to talk about my relationship with my mother. I posted because it seems to me that language and definitions are so distorted in this cult. This is just one example, but I think of it every time someone mentions how "great" and "awesome" everything is at GG.

[forte (forte)]

a word...

Many people can look at your poem and know exactly what it means - for them - about their relationship with their mother - or how they are with their own child/children.

For you, perhaps it's about how ggwo affected your relationship. For others, other causes.

It's a great poem. Thank you for sharing it.

[calv (calv)]

when you get the big picture
of what an unhealthy "church"
does
to everyone involved
how it trickles down
thru every member
subtle
powerful
destructive
deadly?

they
blame others
never take responsibility
for their behaviour

the real stories
can they be told
and belived

how long will it take
to see the real toll
IT has on your life

bells,whistles , horns???!!!!!!
all with a standing ovation!
surreal

[calv (calv)]

surreal
like a nite-mare
today

for somebody
caught
in the middle

what to do
trust
who

when the "church"
is your world
you have control

when you have control
you can't feel
PAIN

[sojourner (sojourner)]

And Pain is a sign of LIFE.
Ask a parapalegic what they would do if they
FELT PAIN
They would get excited.
Pain is a sign of life, of nerves flowing with electricity, of storms and the whole range of emotions He gave us.
Why do we run from pain?
As long as we run in fear, we are never free to
simply live and know that
Pain is a sign of life.
How many women have brought a baby into this world
without pain?
Pain is a sign of life.

[calv (calv)]

Pain
it"s the biggest motivator for change.
if they can't feel it...they don't have to.
if they make us feel it
they think, they can control us.
sadly they do...
probably the same thing happened to them.
but what happened to us
when they weren't looking?
what happens when they don't get their way?
a sick system makes people sick
a healthy system brings healing
a system must be in place for either one to happen.
what is fact net?
a system that is in place
to help people like us
find out the truth
about where we have been
so that we can walk with others
who are there now
what we are learning
is how to have relationship
with each other
that glorifys the Maker of all good things!
its not the works of man
or how smart we are
or all the good works weve done
but being humbled
so He is reflected thru us
not by us....

[calv (calv)]

as i think about it though
they do feel pain
and it is real
its just that they blame others for it
and are unwilling to see that they
are responsable for thier own behaviour
and what it does to others and themselfs
so
they just hide behind religion
nail themselfs to a cross
or so it appears
and act like thier reaching the world for christ
but their reaching the world for themselfs
and the church grows bigger and sicker
and thats what the world sees
hmmm....pretty twisted stuff

[pressing_on (pressing_on)]

Calv, who are you?
Do you have a story on the story thread.
It would be nice to know more about you. I mean that in sincerity.

Pressing_on

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Calv,
they have pain too
but they blame others
so true,
it's always
persecution
a conspiracy
a heathen
a carnal christian
a wicked evil boss
it is never
their obnoxious attitude
failure to have a team spirit
inability to owe nothing but love to all men
understanding their own sinfulness instead of pointing fingers at others
lack of respect for the authority their own
"pastor" preaches about
It shows that something is amiss.
Haven't they heard...
we have One Scapegoat
we are all to blame
He took the blame
Died in shame
Rose in glory and
will come again...
What will they say
On that Fateful day
Will it all be in vain?
I do not have the answer...
I am content with knowing
there is One Who does.

Love you calv, you are an inspiration...free flowing, powerful and kind.
Patricia

[calv (calv)]

thank you

Who am I
why am
I here

that is
a good ?
my dear....

hmmm
let me think.......

[calv (calv)]

who do
you say
i am?

[calv (calv)]

what really matters

[calv (calv)]

Pressing

Im just
a middle age guy
with a wife and two kids
a dog and a cat

ive been trudgein the road
to happy destiny
for a long time now

looked for jesus
in a lot of strange places
funny thing is
where ever I went
he was there

never the less
**** happens
and I was there
every time

so what do you do
when you remember
what it was like
when i look at my kids

when I was that age
what was it like
they ask
what do I say

can I tell them the truth
all about me
the things that I did
when I was there age

I gotta be real
tell em the truth
but how
can they possibly understand

the things that i say
who will belive
or What will They say?
have you been watching

what did you learn
from the mistake that you made
then you did it again
and again and again

how could it be
living like that
tell me about jesus
what did he do

you know
they watch
every little thing
they know whats going on

even if I don't
its not that complicated
the eyes of a child
what do they see

they see what I do
hear what i say(even if they act like they don't)
do what I do
look up to me

that the big call in my life
where Im suppose to be
how do I know
cause I learnd the hard way

[pressing_on (pressing_on)]

I say, I do not know who you are.
I hope your not saying you are "I am" LOL

It would be nice to know who you are after all we'll be spending eternity together.
If I don't like you I can change my mind.
Shucks, God won't change His. Guess your stuck with me and I with you.

[pressing_on (pressing_on)]

Darn you beat me to it

[pressing_on (pressing_on)]

Life, you live and learn then you grow up, hopefully
By the way sounds to me like you were called to be a daddy.

[calv (calv)]

I was just trying to be artistic
in a dramatic sort of way.....

you know a lot has happened
since I first posted on fact nutz

your ? brought back a few memories
deja-vu'
right after Bonniescotts first post
boy those sure where some fun times.....

you know this is the first board I ever posted on.
I really can't write or spell very well
or type
but someone....
said it was poetic
my ive been compared to quite some poets!!!
do they pay big bucks for this stuff?
cause im full of it.....
write crap all day
and git payed for it
naw sounds boring.

[pressing_on (pressing_on)]

Your spelling seems fine to me. As a matter of fact I just noticed a couple errors above, now are you doing that trying to pull my leg.

[calv (calv)]

I do like to have fun....

I was never
"IN THE BODY"
but it did have an impact on my life....
in some very critical areas , thru a family member who
is/was....

I did visit tbs back in 80 or so, really felt drawn there...
but a man I met there,I belive put there for me at that time...really ministerd to me. He told me then...
All is not as it appears.
his name was Peter Skipper...anyone know him?
I belive he left right after that.
needless to say a few yrs later
I got into a cult.
It fell apart in 88
I recently found a board by ....former members.
very interesting to look back
and see where others are at after all these yrs.

http://members2.boardhost.com/ccbtc/

I posted there for a bit.
but you guys are more fun!
don't tell them that tho

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Personaly,I never make my steaks.

LOL

My wife does the cooking.

Dave</font>}

[calv (calv)]

I like
those kind
my steaks

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Calv,
I'm going to tell on you! Naw, changed my mind, fickle as a pickle whatever that means.
I was reading our streams above and it occured to me that I am still running away from pain myself. Yet I beat myself up, (need lessons, I'm a pro).
My only goal is to persevere (I hope) until love breaks through the static in my head. I may sound clear and logical (like a good scientologist) but alone, at night, like now, things can grab me and make my heart pound like a jackhammer.
It is a mystery, Brennan Manning says in "The Relentless Love of Jesus" that man shapes his image of God; but even more man is shaped by the image of God he makes.
That is something worthy of consideration don't you think Calv...Press...are you all with Mr. Sandman? I'm going to sign out and try the sleep thing again.
patricia

[calv (calv)]

I know what your talkin about!
of course its only 10 40 here
in seattle, in seattle.

I was very sick w chronic fatiuge
for six yrs....
very very depressing.
like God put me in time out
im recovering about 65% better
back to work
but a really big change in life and style
been a long time coming
now i see better
what really matters

[sojourner (sojourner)]

You are awake!
Seattle is beautiful from what I have heard...Washington State in general is very scenic isn't it.
I am glad you are recovering. I won't list my "issues" because I am bored with them, but I want to know about other people's needs.
You are blessed to have a family, but it is hard when you are exhausted. I hope they understood.
Illness does put a different spin on life, it does make us see that health and energy are great riches. Ok, Calv, I'm on eastern standard time here..I am tired of going to sleep for two hours after the sun comes up...
Greet your family from your new sister patricia,
gee, sounds like a nun, NOT, thank God.
Sweet dreams poetry man..there are more fun times ahead for you I am willing to bet...
patricia

[calv (calv)]

thanks Patricia

Yes I am blessed to have a family!
One that understands and accepts me as and for
who I am. I married well! My wife and her parents have been the greatest blessing in my life. They have walked with me and stood by me thru some of the most difficult of times. I was all but compleatly abandond by the rest of the world emotionaly and phyiscally....yet they stayed consistant never wavering....lifting me up.
My wife also struggled with what I have gone thru- she understands me- to a degree, beyond that she belives in me. Yes its been hard...we also went thru a stillborn daughter with a miscarrage before and after. Our church family at that time was not exactly a healthy one. I have to say we saw God really provide for us the last seven or so yrs,
In the most amazing ways.
My in-laws are the most amazing gift of all....If it werent for them I dont know where Id be!
by the way their not christians, we are...
they just see the way christians are....what can I say.
Its not just GG , or ccbtc thats off,
theres a lot of stuff thats off in the church world, We look like a bunch of hyoppicrits! We are so blind.....and the way christians hurt each other.
The only religion that kills its own God!
and each other...we sacrifice others on the alters to our churchs! The golden calves we bow down and worship
and hide in from the rest of the world. Jesus never taught that did he?
Its hard to look at the hard realities of life.
but we have to

[calv (calv)]

just for the record

it was never
my intention
to cause any trouble
or hurt anyone

what I saw
a system in place
to communicate
whats in my heart

misunderstood
i understand
what could I do
I did what I did

was that wrong
who did I hurt
why do I care
why should you

this is the truth
life aint pretty
who do you blame
who do you pity

what is the use
who will stand up
for what they don't see
those who are hid...

right in plain sight
what goes on everyday
they wish it would stop
who can stand up

how will they know
who they can trust
if they can't see
the truth thru us

if were living a lie
do you think they can't see
the secrets we keep
locked deep inside

the pain of life
how does it end
the hole inside
empty and deep

should I give up
or just give in
what can I do
I know what its like

keep it a secret
thell say its a lie
twist it around
use their control

push you away
what ever it takes
then they pretend
everythings fine

nothing is said
years go by
life is lost
soon it will end

the pain lives on
damage was done
control it stays
getting passed down

the poison
it spreads
an invisible cloud
over your head

it seeps in
to everylife
and devours
whatever it can

where did it come from
how far will it grow
can it end
how

its not like
ive got it all figured out
I don't
but what I know

I know
what do I do with that
the best that I can
what else could I do

i know it ain't much
hard to understand
its all that ive got
it's as good as it gets

go it alone
or look for a friend
those that will walk
down the same path

where do you find them
how will you know
thats hard to say
but we are out here

I can choose
make a choice
help make it better
or help make it worse

one or the other
like it or not
thats what I do
what shall I choose

if I keep Quiet
run away and hide
from the fear thats within
how does that help

what does it cost
to stand up and say
NO MORE
youll never know

untill you do
then youll find
whos real
and whos not

who will walk the path
who is not ready
trying to find
which way to go

how do you follow
where will it lead
so much unknown
on the road ahead

I look for the signs
where ever I go
where ever He leads
however that is

Im not there yet
still looking
watching
waiting

not hiding
not running
just standing

[calv (calv)]

funny
how God works
hurt
by those who say
they love him
shown his love
by those
who say they don't

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Calv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!