Is dissent Biblical

[dragged_thru_mud (dragged_thru_mud)]

Or is it just an American ideal? Was the revolution Biblical? Discuss

[jasper (jasper)]

Dissent? Questions? Concerns? Not a problem! That is, as long as you dissent in humility AND come around to the RIGHT way of thinking after you've been given the canned answers to your questions and concerns. Well, yes, in that case, dissent is just fine!

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Our justice system is based on the Judeo-Christian Tradition and usually they do not all agree. The majority rules but the other judges submit written "dissents" which are opinions based on their interpretation of the Constitution.
These dissenting opinions are preserved as part of our legal heritage. I would say dissent is very important, and valid because no one person or group has absolute knowledge and God uses our different strengths and weaknesses to glorify Himself. It is in the New Testament when the apostles disagreed, what is not Biblical is hatred and wishing evil on those who stay or those who depart from the accepted norm.
When the elders of GG voted for Roger Stenger and the minority dissented. They had a right to disagree, but then they took it further and hyped up the congregation into anarchy thereby nullifying the very biblical system of checks and balances that was put there to prevent such a travesty.

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

It is written that we must obey God rather than man. That definately leaves room for dissent when it comes to arrogant humans who think they know everything but don't. Humans make mistakes and we have to engage in dissent or we end up making the same mistakes they do. Blindly following a buffoon that screws up is just not smart. Kind of like the blind leading the blind into a big pit. That just plain sucks! Of course humans will always disagree over some things. Welcome to life! People just have to learn to work together despite disagreements instead of being extremely immature like Greater Grace where they toss out those who disagree with them, mark them with slander, and try to turn everyone against them. Any group that claims to know it all and forbids any kind of dissent is dangerous and to be avoided!!

[sojourner (sojourner)]

I like it that the Holy Spirit and even the human spirit balks at "religous racketeering" and self proclaimed prophets that elevate themselves above everyone else.
Nothing can really be done against the truth ultimately so all of the things that tick us off in places like GGWO won't rob my faith. I am the only one who has that power. Certainly I have been sidetracked, it has been a rough ride but what good will it do to make that season the end all of my life's experience.
I think part of our dissent as those who have exited is to move forward in all the fulness of life and that vindicates the lies and threats along with being watch guards.
The temptation for me is to stagnate in this place of always trying to sort things out and understand...I think I am ready for a change.
Patricia

[minutus (minutus)]

Biblical dissent is a refusal to let the fallen state of humans lord it over the new creation in Christ.

[anova (anova)]

Minutus,

Are you now, or have you wever been, a member of the communist party?


Anovus

[anova (anova)]

Just Kidding.

Minutus, you're post is brilliant.


Anovus

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Draggedthru,
Are you waiting before you weigh in on your own thread? That's ok. When you ask if the revolution was biblical I wondered if the question could be framed another way.
Do you mean did the participants all pull out a Bible and say "The word backs us up, lets have a revolution."?; or do you mean once it happened did a group of Bible scholars pick it apart and find biblical premises for things.
I would say we could come up with answers on each side of the fence to a question like that and I wonder what it is we would really learn, but it is a thought provoking question.
The revolution was about the survival of the human spirit. I am sure on each side individuals
used principles of the Bible to justify their actions.
So- in the sense of the letter maybe it was biblical. The revolution was an event in history, not the Bible; but in the Bible there are all these accounts of God's people fighting battles in His name so we know that battles in and of themselves are not evil or good but perhaps are justified by those with evil and good intentions.
On both sides there were men and women who believed in earnest they were fighting for the greater good and for God's will.
I thinks convictions ran much deeper then than they do now, then everything was a matter of ideals and passionate fervor.
Of course as a not-so-proper Bostonian, my vote is cast with the tea party proponants. I am reminded of King David roaming the hills and hiding in caves with his army made up of the discontented, the dismayed, disillusioned outcasts. A bunch of malcontents. Being an underdog and top of the line black sheep I have to admit I am deeply prejudiced. I love the long shots, the one's you least expect to make it.
This is the stuff I do not pretend to understand.

Abraham Lincoln saw this dilemma re: slavery and the war between the north and south that threatened to destroy our young union. He was baffled by the use of the Bible by both sides, one who justified slavery the other who saw it as an abomination. He never said, one is absolutely right and one is absolutely wrong, he shared his sense of the controversy, his own fear and trembling and then acted out of conscience.
He may have been absolutely right in his conclusions, but he got there with an open hand towards Heaven, leaving room for what only God knew.
Times have changed haven't they.
Today we are all grown up and think we know everything...boy we could use some unlearning in this society.
It may seem simple to us to say that we know who was right from our perspective but it was not simple then, and the death toll was great.
Conviction is a powerful thing. Only God knows what our true motives are.
So, I think with the revolution there were those who touted the Bible on each side to morally defend their stand, one for the "Motherland" and the other for "freedom", but I do think it was nothing like the dumb little hair splitting arguments that so many church goers involve themselves in these days.
"God hates makeup" "God doesn't like your music" and blah blah blah...no wonder people like eastern mysticism it is not so presumtuous as the pew warmers. It leaves room for mystery.
Oh well...
The revolution in my opinion was not biblical or unbiblical but an event in history whose participants had different attitudes and beliefs about what the Bible meant. I think the founding of America as a nation was a miracle of God and so I do have my own opinion about who was right.
I believe freedom is close to God's heart in that it is for freedom that Christ set us free, but in this world of injustice and pain, He also told us our true freedom is inward and that understanding alone will keep us in the midst of tribulations.
This is a very interesting subject to consider. I have to stop reading for awhile to get anything done!
Enjoy your freedom today factnetters.
Patricia

[lana (lana)]

Why is there a lack of conviction, that once was? What has happened to "sin"? I think we live in a world now, of "victims". Everyone else is to blame for every thing we do wrong. There are endless "programs", to convince us of this. "I feel your pain". Our Cross has lost its divine prrpose. Self responsibility is being lost as Big Brother steps in to make sure no one suffers.We are all paying for this anti-Christ take over throughout this country. We as Christians must be aware of this evil.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Lana you have really hit a real nail on the head.
We are in a culture of entitlement. It is the crooked path that results when the way of least resistance is chosen over truth.
We resist the idea of sin because it is politically incorrect. At the same time many have used the word sin to sum up every nuance of human behavior that does not conform to their code of conduct.
The only solution I know of is found in Christ Himself. A good test for me is to look honestly at what I react to. It kind of shows me where my treasure is. The cross has not lost its purpose but I think many of us have become lost to its purpose which is to give us true freedom that enables us to be ambassadors for Christ. It is not religion but an authentic fully human experience as God alone can provide.
I agree, the less we let God rule, the more other things will step up to the plate to limit and confine what does not support the status quo, or the "powers that be."
Hope you are well.
Patricia

[dragged_thru_mud (dragged_thru_mud)]

I just thought this would be an interesting topic. I do not always have time to post though so I have not come up with an answer to my own question. Not yet.

[lana (lana)]

I didn't mean the Cross has lost its purpose. I meant it isn't being understood why all of us have suffering in our lives. I'm not talking about Followers of Our Lord, who know. Jesus died on the Cross for us. We must die to our flesh on our own individual crosses. .That includes suffering. but He said I won't give you more than you can bare. "My Faith is made perfect in your weakness". "I will never leave you or forsake you". " Your Faith is more precious to Me, than gold which perishes".He is talking to imperfect people who He loves profoundly.

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

2 Timothy 3 answers all these questions.