Would FACTNet Christians welcome a reconciliation attempt by GGWO

[minutus (minutus)]

Not a bad idea, daved. But I think face-to-face is better if possible.

[forte (forte)]

daved said,

"GGWO takes great pride in considering themselves to be a ministry of reconcilliation."

Maybe they "took" pride in it.

Not anymore.

[lana (lana)]

I don't think reconcillation applies here. Its up to the people to leave on their own, and be reconcilled with the Truth. Factnet is providing that process.

[dancer (dancer)]

Let me be so honest it kills me.

I tried based upon the same bible verses, with organizations that are in the business of reconciling Christians, and ex members.

I had one of the best Coordinators for this in a conference call with Steve Stevens, Pastor Marr, Pastor Robinson, try to put something together last year.

At the end of the day they never followed through.

There sits out there now parties gearing up to sue GGWO. There are investigations by the FBI, IRS, and agencies for 2 state goverments. None of that would have happened had GGWO followed through on its on words.

I have emails, and quotes and phone conversations from proffesional organizations that tried to help this process along.

The majority of the people who wanted something to happen are now gone. The only person ironically I have hope for in this process now is Mike Marr.

Scott Robinson is all but gone. Steve Stevens is gone.

I know families that would welcome a sincere effort by GGWO. Ones that at the end of the day or going to have to decide things like rather they will be involved with an investigation or look the other way including their own pain.

My prayer is I get the phone call that makes things better for people like me and more importantly my children. But I don't think it will ever happen.

Repentance is what is needed here and some real action. I made be the king of sinners but nothing is crazier than the idea that GGWO could have hundreds of more follows, win more people to Christ than they ever have, millions more in their bank accounts, but they can't seem to learn how to say sorry and apply to their ministry work.

Yes they will hurt a lot of people, but they are stabbing themselves in the chest by not following their own ministry of reconcilation.

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Ears that do not hear,
eys that do not see
when you see this all around you
that's the time to flee.


dave</font>}

[dancer (dancer)]

NOW

[offshore (offshore)]

Is this not an open forum? I welcome anyone from GGWO, especailly the leaders and the "Great One", to come onto Factnet and ask questions, argue, get angry, say they are not wrong, and hey...even repent.
And as a matter of fact, I'd love to hear how they justify and rationalize why they have thousands of bleeding and wounded, that can barely crawl out of the Greater Grace World Outrage.

[forte (forte)]

Hey! AND...we could ask for everyone's "non-binding" vote on what should be done about it!

(heh heh)

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

How can there be reconciliation without repentance and a change of errant doctrine? Schaller has made it quite clear he is going to continue to teach one pastor/teacher, geographical will, etc.

He has also said again and again those of us who left are evil, separating friends. It is being said by many congregants as well as Schaller that any Christian who disagrees with GG and says so i.e. the LeHays, Rob Prokopf, Tim Kelley, Jacqi, Dan, etc and so on is giving an evil report.

I have emails stating this so I know it is true not to mention hearing TS and others say it from the "pulpit" and in ABD class.

Nancy Curra

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Something is going to be done about it.
Just watch what takes place within the next three to four months.

The clock is ticking.

Dave</font>}

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Forte, Remember when you told me I could not ask you questions? Does that rule still apply? I am just wondering about you.. were you still attending GG when you started posting? You sound now like you no longer attend. Whatever the case, I wish you well.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Dancer,
I do not know your whole story, I am still trying to piece it together.
It astonishes me that someone with Mr. Marr's extensive legal expertise and reasoning abilities can stand for what is going on in the name of God.

It would take a whole lot more than a phone call to fix things but that could be the first baby step perhaps.

I think this organisation cannot follow it's ministry of reconcilliation because that ministry is non-existant. It seems evident by the deaf ears the stubborn little stronghold of leadership keeps turning to those who are crying out.

Rather than a healing, nurturing desire to be "at peace with all men" there is self-preservation, denial, marking men and women of God, in short they seem to be better at producing schisms and division in families, among believers, and in individual hearts who are trying not to judge when they have every right to discern.

When they are pushed they may give the "IF, I offended you I am sorry.", but that is not repentance at all but a placating almost mocking gesture by virtue of it's hollow insincerity and lack of conviction that they are really accountable for their actions.

It becomes clearer and clearer to me every day and it is very disturbing indeed.

They are not just stabbing themselves, they are hanging themselves and sooner or later the house of cards they are carefully defending will fall because the foundation just is not there.

Is there a thread where you explain exactly what it is you have gone through dancer because I only know you are a hurting husband and father and that you have a passion for the truth and for others.

And I pray for you and your loved ones.

My final thought is before they can even get to point A, it has to be acknowledged fully and with complete definition in detail that they have been a pernicious influence on the cause of Christ and arrogant in their posture to the church at large and to individuals who suffered from their lack of love and genuine interest in their personal spiritual development.

Just had to weigh in on this thread because I feel so strongly about this.

Stay in the ring dancer, the fight is far from over.

Your fellow soldier for the cause of freedom in Christ.

Patricia

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

I choose to forgive but my trust has to be earned with an enormous amount of effort when its been destroyed. I would welcome a sincere reconciliation attempt of GGWO on a public forum, but they have to prove their sincerity and that they aren't just going through the motions with empty words. They can help to prove their sincerity by returning the money they manipulated people out of along with any cars, houses, or other properties. They also must go in person to all the people they approached with their marking attempts against their least favorite people and publicly repent and take back their decietful words. That means EVERYONE!! The burden of proof is on GGWO. They have to prove themselves because right now they are not worthy of trust given their record of deceit and slander against people. They also must publicly renounce all the false teachings like delegated authority, geographical will, one pastor/teacher, mandatory Sunday service attendance, presumed pastoral perfection, tithing, prohibitions against all rock/rap music, no touch love, God giving cancer to those who voice disagreements with GGWO, and all the rest. They also must submit to the reeducation attempts of an outside solid grace oriented Christian ministry to oversee the change. They also must be willing to give up all the arrogance and intolerance to anyone who doesn't believe everything they say, or dress, act, talk, or do everything the same way as they do. Unless they want to do all these things, I don't trust them and will avoid them. I welcome reconciliation but it must be true reconciliation and GGWO has to prove that its willing to do that!

[forte (forte)]

Jeannie,
I will forever be outraged at the whole "non-binding vote" thing.

Eist moran agus can beagan.

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

Forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate issues. We forgive because Christ asked us to. It is cleansing for us and honors God. Reconciliation however is not possible when others would not be reconciled to the Truth or to others, or change unbiblical practices.

Nancy Curra

[lana (lana)]

How much did money play a part in the whole ministry? Winning souls, Tithing, selling homes, going into all the world, living in poverty for the Lord. That meant dollars to them. Their tight knit message assured them of loyal followers. The bigger they got, the more money. It had a powerful hold on us. Greed crept in and we crept out!

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Mo chara Forte,


Eist moran agus can beagan?...lol Eolach!!(wise!!)

Is iad na muca ciúine a itheann an mhin.

Rath Dé ort!

Cara

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
That we forgive without condition is what God expects from us.It is to our own benefit regardless of the offenders responce.
Reconciliation on the other hand,as stated above, is conditional on the responce of both individuals.
The attempt can and must be made but we cannot count on the other to do what is right.We can only try.

Dave</font>}}}}

[lana (lana)]

We all have the heart of forgiveness, its just there. What does it mean to those we forgive? Do they take it as love and understanding, and "go and sin no more", or to continue on in the same attitude, with soothing words of contrition? Lets just move on and serve the Lord? Here is where the problem lies. I really doubt if they will do it. They do not want "thinkers".