12T marriage

[vanishingpoint (vanishingpoint)]

Hello ex-members,

I have a brother who is currently in the 12T and is going to be married soon. He "killed his live" for the woman he initially went there and is now marrying someone else, someone more "pure." He also killed the love for those who wound not unconditionally accept his choice to convert. Guess whose not invited to the wedding! So I'm curious. Do I "crash" the wedding and demand recognition as a brother or do I let it go? Do any of you ahve experiences in which family members show up and cause a fuss?

[doug (doug)]

There's a lot of big guys there who work hard all day. They might surround you and ask you to leave. Perhaps some of the elders will talk to you. Did they tell you not to come? Do you think it would accomplish anything if you cause a fuss?
Weddings there are usually (or were when I was there) a public affair and they were not big on invitations so if you were not asked not to come than go if you want to.

[jayso (jayso)]

I'm not familiar with how weddings work at 12T, but their motto is: "come for a visit or to stay". The 12T "community" is supposingly "open to visitors". Depending on where the wedding will take place, it should be fine to attend the ceremony. If there is a reception, it is usually by invitation only (but at 12T, they believe in sharing everything).

If you decide to go to the wedding ceremony and you are not invited to stay for the reception, I think you should just leave and realize you have "lost" your brother. In time, he may turn around and contact you or other family members.

Your disappointment with your brother and his choices may cause you feelings of indignation. I have experience with family rifts and strongly advise you not to "cause a fuss" or "demand recognition". If you go, stay in the background and be as courteous as possible.

If your brother decides to make a fuss because you are at the wedding, do not answer him loudly. Let the other members of his "community" see him acting a carnal, brutish ******* (and believe me, he will be rebuked!). Just make sure YOU act sweet and humble! Let all who see KNOW that YOU don't have a problem with your brother... he has one with you.

Don't add fuel to their "holier than thou" attitudes. Just swallow your pride and keep a big smile on your face and an outstretched hand of congratulations for your brother, his bride and other community members. It may be a good idea for you to grow a beard if there is enough time. If you smoke.. DON'T do it that day or have any smell of it on your clothes. YOU WILL BE JUDGED!

Try to "fit in"! You may evoke empathy from some members of the "tribe" if your brother makes a public display of animosity towards you! 12T people claim to be pacifists; kind and gentle. They are based on Christianity and Judaism and emphasize living peacably with all, even "outsiders".

Showing disapproval for his choices will not work to help him leave the 12T and may even strenghten his resolve to rebel even further against his natural family and his "former life".

Just my opinion. I think I am right, but then again, who doesn't? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif - Jay

[jayso (jayso)]

VP: Doug has a good point! If they asked you NOT TO ATTEND the wedding, it probably would be a good idea not to.

[vanishingpoint (vanishingpoint)]

Thanks so much for your input. It's nice to get a perspective from others/outsiders before getting info directly.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

VP,
My two cents.
Why go if you are not invited?
Also I never go to weddings "just because", I want to be able to celebrate and endorse the union. Couples that are so into each other that they exclude others, turn me off.
My view of relationships is two people with more room in their hearts for others than ever before.
True love expands your world, can you be there in a loving supportive capacity?
I went to a wedding with this spirit recently and it was one big love affair between everyone because their love was so beautiful. We all felt like we were so important, it wasn't just about them. It started at 10AM and continued at a private home with all sorts of musicians and swimming til after midnight.
That phrase "kill the love" gave me a shudder in the spine. Calvary's love is more and more astonishing every day isn't it?
Well VP do as you feel you should, however, as Jayso said, do not go to confront and if you are going to be brimming over with negatives it may be best to sit it out.
Let us know. I would be curious like a reporter if it were me, but then it is not my loved one.
Best wishes,
Patricia

[calv (calv)]

vanishing

if you go
whatever goes wrong
will be your fault
if they all pull their pants down
thell say you did it
lookin for trouble
make an example out of you
because their right
everyone else is wrong
and all the trouble
only proves it
bring your camera
sure to be a few kodak moments
youll never forget
neither will they
memories...last a life time
a picture is worth
a thousand words!

[jayso (jayso)]

When my father died 5 years ago, his ex daughter inlaw and her parents showed up at the wake. They haven't communicated with him or us in a positive way for years. They cried all around the coffin and gave a lot of fake platitudes of what a good man he was and how they will miss him.

Our immediate family was shocked that they had the nerve to come to the funeral parlor. They hugged and kissed us all, expressing condolence and saying "we will miss him so much". I said to my sister in law "You should have come when he was alive! It would have been nice for him and us to know how much you 'loved him'while he was alive".

My brother and his wife and kids shunned my family and purposely kept himself and his family away from ours. The reason was he embraced atheism and anti-semitism. He became a multi-millionaire and was ashamed of his middle class, NY city background. He changed his and his children's name from Stern to STEVENS (really!).

When his first child had her lavish first birthday party (complete with band, open bar, 5 course dinner in a catering hall), my parents were NOT invited. My sister and I were, but we didn't want to go because our parents were not. My mother insisted we go to the party.

We went to the party and was sat at a small table for two, right in front of the door to the kitchen. All the other guests (about 150) were sat at big round tables of eight or ten. Nobody came over to us. My sister and I truly felt unwelcome. It became obvious to us that my brother and his wife invited us just to "rub my parents' faces in it".

Anyhow, I decided to mingle amongst the guests and ventured out near the dance floor and the large tables in the main part of the hall. A few people (including my sister in law's family) recognized me and said how "nice it is to see me again". They all asked "Where are your parents?, Are they OK?". I simply said "ask my brother where my parents are. He can tell you" Of course, inside I was seething, but kept up a cordial appearance.

My mother insisted that my sis and I attend that party to "keep the lines of communication open". We did it just to please her. Now, twenty years later, there is still no real communication between my brother and the "Stern" family. To this day, my sister and I regret going to that party.

There is so much I could tell about my family's dynamics concerning my brother, but it would
probably bore the heck out of most people.

Sufficeth to say, I found that no amount of reaching out to my brother has yielded any positive results in our relationship. He removed himself from our family years ago. Fortunately he still knows who we are and how to contact us. The last time I saw or spoken with him was shortly after my dad's funeral. My mother still phones him to leave messages about family get togethers, but he doesn't return the calls.

"A brother offended is harder to win back than a fortified city". (Proverb).

[whitehorses (whitehorses)]

what is 12t

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Boy Jayso your story spoke to my heart. Blood is not thicker than water. Your parents were the ones who took the high road, I feel sorry for your brother. Look where his security lies.

I confided in my family about issues in my life and they repaid me by distancing themselves and pigeon-holing me. Famillarity is a strange thing.
It is hard to gain perspective.
I have come to the conclusion that these matters must be fully committed to God, if only to guard our emotional well being.
Personally I would have caused a scene...but that is me.
The point is though that we cannot change anything about another person by mere words.
I admire your restraint Jayso.
Patricia

[jayso (jayso)]

12T = "TWELVE TRIBES"; an international group of people who live in communes and practice a form of Christianity that combines Jewish laws and Christian beliefs. 12T is discussed on Factnet. http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/781.html?1120507042

The OFFICIAL 12T website is http://www.twelvetribes.org

[jayso (jayso)]

Old Irish Proverb: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".