Does anyone like dancing

[kathleen (kathleen)]

"Dancing On The Clouds"
We danced to the music of happiness.
Brought by love so fair,
Upon the clouds of the air.
Around in circles holding each other's hands.
This precious ground together we should stand.
Turning to greet You in such a place.
At your Table Forever God's Righteousness and Grace!
"Let us all sit and give Thanksgiving,
From these my chosen for Heavens Eternal living."
They’re looking all around and about,
Should I give out my shout?
To turn and behold your smile.
One I would long for all the while.
It's you the Love of my soul.
Who took my prayers and tenderly did hold.
So does shine the light that brought my soul here in flight.
"May I thank you please at last to be freed,
From a world of lust and greed”.
Where Satan did try to take me under
That did bring forth my soul to hunger.
Now we will live with you,
Your Love is Forever True.
" Such joy is this in Heaven hear the voices sing!!!!
To the Angles from the four corners of this world
Upon the wind of their wings.
Praise and Glory to Our Lord,
Our King,
The Marriage Supper of The Lamb
And all Heaven does sing!

[kathleen (kathleen)]

Dear Friends:

This life that we are living on earth is not easy for every one. Every person has their own personal trials and tribulations that they must go through. In order to be victorious over them just as the Lord Jesus Christ was victorious over every trial that He went through when He was on the earth. He is our example and because of the same Holy Spirit that raised Him from the grave also dwells in us. We too can be victorious over every obstacle that comes our way.

I hope you will be encouraged and inspired by this poem that shows how much Christ really loves every person on the earth. I hope it also strengthens you if you are feeling weak in your faith. God truly loves you and cares for you, so you be encouraged and stay strong in Him.
(Psalm 103:1-5) (Ephesians 6:10)


STILL HE WALKED

He could hear the crowds screaming "crucify" "crucify.
He could hear the hatred in their voices,
These were His chosen people.
He loved them, and they were going to crucify Him.
He was beaten, bleeding and weakened. His heart was broken,
still He walked.

He could see the crowd as He came from the palace.
He knew each of their faces so well.
He had created them. He knew every smile, laugh, and shed tear.
But now they were contorted with rage and anger. His heart broke,
still He walked.

Was he scared?
You and I would have been, so His humanness would have mandated that He was.
He felt alone. His disciples had left, denied, and even betrayed Him.
He searched the crowd for a loving face and He saw very few.
When He turned His eyes to the only one that mattered,
He knew that He would never be alone.
Looking back at the crowd, the people who were spitting at Him, throwing rocks, mocking Him. He knew that because of Him they would never be alone.
So for them, He walked.

The sounds of the hammer striking the spikes echoed through the crowd. The sounds of His cries echoed even louder. The cheers of the crowd as His hands and feet were nailed to the cross intensified with each blow.
Loudest of all was the still small voice inside His
Heart that whispered "I am with you, my Son",
And God's heart broke.
He had let His Son walk.

Jesus could have asked God to end His suffering,
But instead He asked God to forgive.
Not to forgive Him, but to forgive the ones who were persecuting Him.
As He hung on that cross, dying an unimaginable death,
He looked out and saw, not only the faces in the crowd,
But also, the face of every person yet to be,
And His heart filled with love.
As His body was dying, His heart was alive.
Alive with the limitless, unconditional love He feels for each of us.
That is why He walked.

When I forget how much My God loves me,
I remember His walk.
When I wonder if I can be forgiven,
I remember His walk.
When I need reminding of how to live like Christ,
I think of His walk.
And to show Him how much I love Him,
I wake up each morning, turn my eyes to Jesus,
And I walk.

Author Unknown


The Lord Jesus Christ is alive and well. He did die for the sins of the
world and was buried, but on the third day, He rose from the grave and is
now alive. We do not believe in a dead Savior as many other religions do,
but Christians believe in the Only True and Living Savior, the Lord Jesus
Christ. He paid the price once and for all and now the Bible says,
Whosoever will is welcome to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.
(Isaiah 53:4-12) (Romans 5:12-19) (John 19:30) (Romans 10:13)

If we can put your complete trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, then there
is no better time than the present. The Bible says that Jesus knocks at
the door of our hearts and waits to come in. It is up to us whether we
open that door and invite the Lord into our heart. He will never force
Himself upon anyone because He has given us a free will to either accept
Him or reject Him. Jesus says, "I am the bread of life: he that cometh to
Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst."
(Revelation 3:20) (Deuteronomy 30:19) (John 6:35)

I encourage you to call upon the name of Jesus our Lord today.
If you have never done so before. In Jesus Christ there is Peace, Joy and Love that surpasses all understanding and unless you try Him for yourself, you will never know nor
understand what the true meaning of peace really is. (Philippians 4:4-7)


meditate, meditation: On these scriptures:

Romans 5:8-11 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while
we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been
justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if
when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His
Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And
not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count
slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should
perish but that all should come to repentance.

Romans 10:8-11 The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart
(that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with
your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised
Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto
righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For
the Scripture says, Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.

John 11:23-27 Jesus said to her,Your brother will rise again. Martha said to Him,I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the
last day. Jesus said to her,I am the resurrection and the life. He who
believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this She said to Him, Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.


Many Blessing going your way.....

Kathleen



(Message edited by kathleen on January 20, 2005)

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

Kathleen,

These are wonderful passages, but what do you hope to accomplish by posting them? Do you feel like a lot of people on this site need to be saved? If so, why?

Just wondering.

Best wishes,

Boss Martian

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Kathleen, who are you, where are you located, are you now or have you ever been a member of GGWO, and if not what is the purpose of your posts here...

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

Kathleen appears to speak in riddles and has yet to talk to us rather she seems to be talking "at" us.

We have asked her several times to respond but she seems to be choosing not to.

Kathleen while your posts are beautiful it would be nice if you came down off that mountain and talked to us. We are real people and unfortunately once again I have to say I cannot climb this mountain you are building with each post.

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

Kathleen = Robinson or Spawn of Robinson
Oops, I am working on troll ignoring.

[kathleen (kathleen)]

Mercyriegns, Rjfernalld, Boss_Martian:

It's because of people like louse_connolly that keep me from saying anything about who I am, or anything about my present or past.
Sorry.
A friend in Christ.
Kathleen

[yogi (yogi)]

Kath, you're such a tease girl!

Yogi

[kathleen (kathleen)]

Northern Wind

The whispers of a northern wind.
The flicker of a
distant lightening strike.
Pondering on my thoughts of you,
compassion's wind.
The air of love,
The breath I breathe,
the love of you,
kept in my heart in a place of silence.

John 14 (The Deity of Christ)

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

O well have to give the girl credit. At least she started her own thread. Still trying to get us to climb that mountain of righteousness she seems to have attained.

And I do realize I don't have to read this thread so ciao Kathleen. God bless you and your beautiful posts but I must admit not knowing your motives or who you are, the posts tend to be unedifying.

[minutus (minutus)]

Repeat after me:

Yog-Sothoth
One Pastor Teacher
Yog-Sothoth
One Pastor Teacher
Yog-Sothoth
One Pastor Teacher

[jeannie (jeannie)]

I hate how this thread title draws me back each time...lol I am really hoping it is going to be about dancing. So I guess I am going to have to share my own dancing story....

I accompanied my son's GGCA class on the Senior Class trip to Nashville Tenn. Tom Schaller was also with us. The adults were sitting in a booth in 50's diner in Nashville and Tom started witnessing to the waitress. She said she wasn't interested in Christianity because she would have to give up so much. She said she loved to dance and I piped in and said "Oh, you do not have to give up dancing! I love dancing, I dance all the time!" And Tom interrupted me and said we DON'T dance and replied "we don't dance? I didn't know that.. and the girl walking away confused and Tom was not too pleased with me...

Next dancing story: Dancing with the police of chief of my district in Moscow...

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

O my I didn't know we didn't dance. Hope David, you know the one who will reign with Christ, didn't hear Tom say that.

By the way I dance to worship music in my wheelchair in my living room all alone all the time, O wait, not alone. Angels, Jesus, Father and Holy Spirit, what an inspiration to dance.

(Message edited by mercyreigns on January 21, 2005)

[yogi (yogi)]

GGWOer's allegedly aren't supposed to go to movies either but guess who I saw a flick last year...P. Paul's daughter and her then boyfriend P. Schollert's son! No problem with the kiddies taking in a flick cuz it's none of my business but have a REAL PROBLEM with hypocrisy and double standards!

Yogi

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Most missionaries come home with classic TBS/GG stories but of course I had great stories that couldn't be shared, because they were politically GG incorrect. My fascination with bathrooms across Russia did not line up with GG dogma. And the following story was never shared before a large audience. I think it would be cool to share the "untold" stories at our reunion in August. We must have Carl (the nephew) attend and share. Ask him to do his rendition of La Vita Loca, including the part where he jumps on and off the retaining wall before an audience of stunned strangers.

Dancing Story # 2

The year was 1993, the wall had come down and Moscow resembled the Wild West. Russian Mafia in Italian knock-off suits (gold chains and all)money-changers and gypsies abound. We lived in a five story apartment building. Our apartment door was joined with another one next door, both were enclosed with an iron gate door, padlocked at night to ward off thieves. The police chief and his family lived in that apartment. I became friendly with the wife Ira, she spoke no English and I spoke very bad Russian but we were able to communicate. My husband and oldest son had gone north of Moscow to the bible college of Carl's. The metro ride and walking took 2 hours, so they would be gone for five hours twice a week. Shortly after they left I blew the electricity in the flat, Fuse box was just outside my door, so there I was with a box of matches trying to figure out a Russian fuse box; Ira came out to help me and my two girls. She motioned the them to shut the our door and in doing so, our door locked. We were locked out and had at least four hours before my husband and son returned. Of course Ira ushered us into her flat. The Moscovites are a warm and hospitable people. The police chief had just returned home and we all settled into their living room. My four year daughter Jennie saw it as an adventure but my thirteen year old was horrified to be sitting in a stranger's apartment for the next four hours. She was sullen, but their sixteen year old son was thrilled! So out came the rolling cart with all kinds of food and a very large bottle of vodka. We politely ate and then the chief handed me a shot glass and poured the vodka to the brim and the toasts began.. "To your beautiful daughter" and he downed the shot and I just sipped. "To our friendship" and another shot downed and I take a sip. "To America" another shot downed and my shot is also getting empty from my sips, more vodka poured into my glass. "To the motherland" and on and on it goes. My glass is filled constantly. The teenage son brings out a boom box and blasts Genesis to impress my daughter. I try to explain we do not like this music. Well, the chief decides he knows what I would like and staggers over and puts in traditional Russian music and he gets up to dance, drags me up and the next thing I know I am being spun around the room by the chief of police as Ira looks on and knowingly whispers to me "men..(unspoken was: can't live with them and can't live without them) And so ends my missionary story of spending the night doing shots and dancing with the chief of police...

[isabella (isabella)]

Oh Jeannie!

This is a great! You have given us a wonderful pictorial. I could (can) see the whole thing.

Thank you so much for this post.

I was thinking, 'I can't go to Maine in August', but I will certainly try to get there...maybe, quit my job to see you and your family.

Isabella

[minutus (minutus)]

Great story Jeannie! The vodka shots were always offered and declining was impossible. The funny thing about Azerbaijan was they would do the shots while saying "Of course we're Muslims, but we drink" with the implication being that that was a distinguishing mark of civilized behavior. I was amazed at how neighbors would pool their limited resources for a family in the building who was having guests (especially foreigners) so they could practice bountiful hospitality. How small our lives are beside such passionate living in hard times. How calculating.

[yogi (yogi)]

Jeannie, What a great missionary story! The Good Book says, Be all things to all men...I LOVE IT!
Hey, Pastor Mosvig from Baku used to do Russian dances on tables, ever see that one?

Cheers,

Yogi

(Message edited by yogi on January 21, 2005)

[jeannie (jeannie)]

I knew Mosvig's brother; he was in Moscow with us...

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Dave, I remember going with Carl to visit this lonely old man, in this tiny, tiny apartment and all he had to offer was vodka. It seemed to me at the moment to refuse his vodka would be crushing to him, steal his dignity. I would rather drink than offend this precious man. As Yogi inferred, we did not go to a foreign land to impose our culture on them but to offer them a gentle savior. That was just how it was and unless you were there you cannot judge.

[yogi (yogi)]

Jeannie,

Do you know Irina Bozrova-Sleeper?
If so do you know if she is still
involved with the GG cult? I hope and
pray not!

Yogi

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Yes, Irina was very close to our family in Moscow. She is still in and married to Will. It makes me very sad as we were her connection to GGWO.

[mercyreigns (mercyreigns)]

beautiful stories, beautiful comments. I remember a missionary once said a similar thing. Jeanie and Yogi said it beautifully and it's worth repeating "we did not go to a foreign land to impose our culture on them but to offer them a gentle savior."

[yogi (yogi)]

Jeannie,

It breaks my heart to hear such sad tidings about Ira. I had hoped her bout with cancer would have been an eye-opener about the leadership of this cult's lack of support.

Please join me in prayer for a miracle for she and her husband.

I know Will was, and may still be, involved at GGWO up to his eyeballs. What, with his own father on "Pastor's" security staff [head piece and 45 caliber in place to protect "pastor's" honor during "church."] And having taught in the Bible college and day school himself! VERY SAD SITUATION INDEED!

Dos vi donya, [Sorry, phonetic as opposed to cyrillic "para usted."]

Yogi

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Yogi,

Did you know Will posted on here after receiving the postcard? I will search for it. I did not know Ira had a bout with cancer??

Ira and I had many conversations in Moscow. I have hope for her because she is a thinker, let's pray together that her critical thinking skills will kick in and she comes to FN and seeks answers...

[kathleen (kathleen)]

mercyreigns your quote:
"Still trying to get us to climb that mountain of righteousness she seems to have attained."

Just don't know what to say. Never thought some simple stories would make you think you need to climb some mountain. But a bible verse does come into my mind.
Zechariah 4:6-7
"Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it."
Read the whole chapter it's quite interesting.

God Bless and keep you as He only can.

Kathleen

(Message edited by kathleen on January 22, 2005)

[kirk (kirk)]

Jeannie,
I haven't been on for a while due to business. I just caught this post about Ira. She was such a great friend. We went to college together and then worked very closely at the college.
She is the ultimate thinker. I can't begin to tell you how intelligent she is. We used to constantly discuss wrong thinking and how the ministry invaded people's lives and thinking. She almost married another guy due to the Pastor convincing her that he knew god's will for her life, and who she was supposed to marry.

If anyone knows how to contact her please email me! Ronaldkirkwood@comcast.net

Robin and i wonder about her and Will weekly.

Don't underestimate Will's critical thinking skills. He's a shahp one.

Kirk

[yogi (yogi)]

Yes, let's all pray and yes they are VERY intelligent! Hey, Ira's the offspring of two University of Moscow PhDs so what can one expect and I know she wasn't about to marry some dimwit!
No, Will does have a noggin as well; graduated from Loyola in physics so obviously no dummy!
Kirk, I will e-mail Ira's cell phone number. [at least the one I had a year and a half ago before I left this cult!]

Yogi

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

BTW Kathleen - yes, I love to dance. My wife, Kathleen, and I dance in our kitchen. I highly recommend Garth Brooks' "The Dance" as not only a romantic piece to dance to, but a statement for us on here.

IMHO "The dance" is very apropo to much of what is being said on other threads here, especially Lee and Alanna, about friendships made and renewed. Think about the friends as being the dance, and then ponder the line "I could'a missed the pain, but I would'a had to miss the dance."

I do not appreciate the pain, even though God IS turning it to gain, but I sure do appreciate all of my many "dance partners." Thanks for "dancing" with me, I look forward to the "ball" in Maine!

Blessings,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[lee (lee)]

Hi Ralph,
I like that analogy. FN to me is much like a dance. Sometimes its joyous and sometimes, well.....its interesting!
I think FN is God's chosen tool for today. The collective voices here have done much to bring pressure on those leaders who would choose to do nothing about the aberrant doctrines and sinful practices. They came to the table to at least discuss them. Now they have words, hopefully they will live by them. Hopefully, someday, they will start to care about the people. Those no longer with them and those that are,instead of moving only to care for themselves and their IDOL.

I think God wants to be God. He wants us all to see him as God. He is the one with the power. He kept sending plagues to Pharoah till he acknowledged God. You can't have God be God, if you still have an IDOL.

[kathleen (kathleen)]

Ralph: "Thanks for "dancing" with me, I look forward to the "ball" in Maine!"

Can't make it to the ball in Maine.
But I will be at the banquet in Heaven.

God Bless
Kathleen

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Yogi,
On the movie issues you brought up a month ago on this thread I wanted to comment about your post of Jan 22nd I believe it was. I was clueless to GGWO's position on movies and dancing. I don't remember even when I was in Bible college that we were told no movies or no dancing. Your post about Natalie Stevens going to the movies with her husband prior to marrying him was a bit harsh. Its not like her parents (or any parents for that matter) can keep a leash on their children once they reach legal age. She made her own decision to go there. Don't single her out to "slam" her. She wasn't the only GGWO "member" at movie theaters. I could give you a list a mile long of people I saw for over 14 years that went to the movies. Many went to see the Lord of the Rings trilogies. Natalie was "no exception to the rule" at all. Why single her out? Its not like you to be so hard. Whats up???

I remember only three specific times where CHS was literally hollering from the pulpit, ranting and railing a movie and literally baning it from the pulpit. It was when "The Titanic" came out. LOL he was furious and beat that horse 3 services in a row. Well, after the first service he did it, that afternoon I was at Lowe's in White Marsh going to see it as were a LOT of people from GGWO. Some who I never thought would go against their idol. They probably were spies for him!!

I never knew about his views on dancing until recently after I left GGWO. I was glad to hear there was dancing at Natalie Steven's wedding reception. I was thrilled to hear it and I mean it. Gee whiz the people in the world think we are weird enough as christians, and some unsaved people get weird over what you have to "give up in order to be saved"...because of pushy overbearing christians that hit them with the legalistic perspective of christianity rather than just sharing about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Too many technicalities and it blows people away.

I meet my unsaved parents in Atlantic City at the casino twice a year if I am able to physically make the trip there. Yeah, its a challenge, I have to use a wheelchair while I am there. They were more relaxed there than at my house around some of my GGWO friends that thought it was best to ram the gospel down their throats...which only made their guard up even more against the Lord...


Yes, I play the slot machines there too in case anybody was wondering!! I come from a long line of Italian gamblers in my family. If you don't play in the annual Tateo "after dinner Christmas family poker game," you should hear the comments.
Believe me, the dishes wait!! God has used these times with my parents and siblings more than I could ever share.

David danced with all his might before His Lord.
I wish I could do the same. In heaven we all will be dancing before our King!!!

Maria

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

You said it, Maria!!! There are not many (frankly I don't know ANY) people who are drawn to "pushy overbearing" people or being hit "with the legalistic perspective of christianity" - !

[lee (lee)]

A friend of Jack's runs the local Christian HS. He is a PK, from a strict denomination and grew up hearing that dancing was 'A vertical expression of a horizontal desire'........everytime the subject comes up at his school.....when the kids beg for a dance, when the board of directors get horrified by the thought, the parents get worried, the teachers are in favor of it, he says all he can think of is that saying......he's actually in favor of holding a dance but finds himself having to dance around it because of people's ingrained thoughts on it.
I say, if there was a vertical expression there may not be a horizontal desire. It's because there is no vertical expression, that we fall into horizontal desires........I know, some could blow me up for saying that but I believe it to be true.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

And I am one of those was still on the dance floor until the very last song at Natalie's wedding. Thank you Paul and Barbara for a very cool wedding in spite of the difficult circumstances!

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

This calls for my two Southern Baptist jokes (don't get excited, I was raised Southern Baptist):

Q. Why don't Southern Baptists have sex standing up?

A. Someone might think they're dancing!

Q. What's the difference between two Catholics in a liquor store and two Southern Baptists in a liquor store?

A. The two Catholics will say "hello" to each other.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Jeannie -- everyone that went to the wedding and reception said it was one of most beautiful ceremonies they had ever been at, and that the reception was the most fun and that it was wonderful to be free before the Lord.

HRH - you are so darn funny!! I love ya!!

Lee, I got saved in one of those Pentecostal churches and I'll tell you, I didn't learn a thing about the Lord. I learned all the things we weren't to do....dancing...etc. Jesus was not a person often brought up in conversations. The law? Most certainly. Thank God he then took me to the other extreme (GGWO and CHS) so He could balance my life NOW!!! LOL!!

Maria

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Boss...some of us are blushing now from the first joke....like really blushing.....Now don't be saying stuff like that in front of us womenfolk, you brazen boy!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

LOL two Southern Baptists in some churches don't say hello to each other there for pete's sake!!

Maria

[dominic1725 (dominic1725)]

At the risk of corniness, I am posting the following just because I liked it. Maybe you will too. It was taken from a "local" http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif church web-site in Preston City Connecticut. http://prestoncitybible.org/cdindex.htm

The Marriage Dance:

For the comparison I am not talking about the modern form of dancing where two people get out on the dance floor and simply gyrate around completely independent of one another, each doing there own thing regardless of the other. Although this is analogous to most modern marriages, two people living together but each so wrapped up in their own activities, dreams, and desires, that they mistake cohabitation with true marriage. In this analogy I am referring to any form of couple's dancing, such as ballroom dancing, where there are clearly defined rules, steps, and movements and both people must work together to achieve the desired effect. Dancing involves teamwork with clearly defined rules and roles for each member of the team. When the rules are followed and when each person fulfills his role the result is a fluid movement of grace and beauty. When one or the other messes up or tries to fill the role of the other the result is catastrophe. Rules, the man leads, the woman follows, the man holds the woman a certain way, and the man begins on the left foot, the woman on the right.
Christian Marriage involves teamwork with clearly defined rules and roles. Eph 5:22-33; Col. 3: 18-4:1; 1 Peter 3:1-7.

1. Teamwork is defined as a relationship between two individuals that is characterized by mutual cooperation and defined areas of responsibility and leadership directed to the achievement of a specified, common goal.

2. Two people cannot dance together without a common goal. Two believers cannot achieve a Christian marriage without a common goal, Amos 3:3 KJV.
The goal of marriage between two believers is to produce a union of two lives, which brings glory to God and is a testimony of divine grace before the human race and the angels in the angelic conflict. This can only be accomplished when both the man and the woman have as their personal goals the glorification of God.

3. Like any team, dancing has specifically defined roles for the two participants. In dancing, the male is the leader and the woman is the follower. This means the man initiates, plans, and directs the movements of the woman. The woman is the follower. She responds to the leadership of the male and does everything he does only backward.
In Christian marriage the husband is the leader, and the one held accountable by God for the spiritual welfare of the family. In Christian marriage the wife is the responder. She is responding to God first and her husband second.

4. In the dance the leader and follower positions are not related to the skill level of the dancers. The male-leader may be less graceful and skilled than the partner, yet she yields to his leadership in grace.
In Christian marriage the roles are not determined by spiritual maturity, emotional maturity, I.Q., leadership or management skills, or any other skills and abilities. The roles are determined by God who created the male soul to have its best, optimal performance as the leader and the female soul to have its best, optimal performance as the responder.

5. In dancing each person has specific footwork that must be learned and practiced in order to develop grace and fluidity. This demands thought and concentration. When emotion takes over mistakes occur.
In Christian marriage each person has specific tasks and roles that they must learn and develop. It takes time, effort, hours of Bible class to grow to spiritual maturity, and along the way you will make a thousand mistakes, which demand grace and forgiveness from the partner. Each partner must have as part of their attitude a desire, based on humility and teachability, not arrogance, to help the other improve.

6. In dancing, the male who leads well can make his partner look graceful and keep her from making mistakes. However if his leads are too strong, she is overpowered and will look stiff and awkward, destroying all grace and usually making her uncomfortable if not creating some pain. Further he will destroy and prevent her from exerting her own style and grace under his leadership. If his leads are too weak the woman will not know how to respond and will be in a frustrating position of always trying to guess how to follow, she does not know which way to go and often trips and stumbles along the dance floor.
The same is true of Christian marriage. The man who leads too strong is a tyrant and a bully and has no concept of grace, impersonal love, or humility. Usually weak and self-centered, operating on arrogance. Any man who hits a woman is a loser in life and failure in the marriage. The man who leads too weak will be run over by the wife, nagged, manipulated, and be made generally miserable.

7. The male as the leader plans and initiates the various moves. He must always be thinking 5 or 6 steps ahead. He must be thinking about where they are going on the dance floor, where other people or obstacles exist, and how to avoid them. He must maintain control because the woman cannot see where they are going.
This implies that the man, as part of the leadership role, understands Christian marriage and where the couple is headed spiritually.

8. In the dance the leader must learn and study his partner to know how to lead her effectively. As the leader in the home and as an expression of aggressive personal love the husband must constantly learn and study his wife so that he can lead her effectively. This involves communication skills of listening, and honing his skills of watching.
The highest goal in Christian marriage is to bring glory to God and is a testimony of divine grace before the human race and the angels in the angelic conflict … so being successful at this is ten thousand times more significant than any job you will ever perform.

9. The man must learn to listen to his partner. She and she alone knows how he is leading. If she says he is too harsh, he is for her. If she says he needs to be more firm in his lead, then he must develop this without overpowering her.
The same is true in life. Remember humility and teachability are part of grace-orientation. Grace-orientation is a prerequisite for impersonal love, the foundation of any successful Christian marriage. As the husband you need to listen to your wife, you need to listen between the lines, not just hear and react. No matter how much you think you are leading just right, she is the one who really knows.

10. The woman must learn to communicate to the man without challenging his tender male ego. Part of this means working on one thing at a time, don't dump on him, don't ridicule him or show any form of disrespect in word, tone or look when other people are around.
The same is true in marriage. But if he is pursuing spiritual maturity and has genuine humility, then he will get past his tender male ego, which is nothing more than one of the three arrogance skills.

11. The woman must learn to let the man lead. Nothing is more frustrating for a man than to fight a woman who is trying to back lead a dance. She must let him learn how to lead and to make mistakes. The Christian wife must learn to let the husband lead, to make mistakes, and to be vulnerable.

12. The woman is usually unaware of where the man is going and of his plans, she must therefore constantly be ready to respond and shift according to his lead. This means she must develop incredible amounts of flexibility.
As the responder in the Christian marriage, the wife also must be flexible in relation to the husband’s leadership. When she becomes self-absorbed, arrogance takes over and she becomes inflexible, the result is a breakdown in the marriage and she goes into reaction instead of response.

13. The woman must continue to follow as best she can no matter how faulty his leadership. If the man is a failure in his leadership, she can still be a success in her role.
In the marriage, her testimony in Christian marriage is not dependent on the male, but on her fulfilling her responsibilities to the best of her ability.

14. Trouble starts when they quit thinking and start emoting, taking one another for granted and thinking things will just happen on their own. They won't. The moment you stop thinking you put everything in danger. Success ultimately is based on consistency and practice.
Many mistakes are made, but as long as the two keeps the goal, it can be accomplished. Never stop working on the basics, never forget the common goal.

15. As the two work together, mutual respect and admiration develop. Confidence increases.

[dominic1725 (dominic1725)]

At a minimum, I have a new perspective on ballroom dancing! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[lee (lee)]

For all you movie lovers, I would suggest a sweet movie entitled "Shall We Dance?' NOT the JLo/Richard Gere remake.YUK! The Japanese one with subtitles......it's really good.

[deb (deb)]

I love dancing, as a matter of fact, I'm going to a Mardi Gras Ball in Pawtuxet Rhode Island this weekend, and I intend to dance all night, with my husband, daughter and son-in-law, and two grandbabies (yes, it's a definate family afair, and I can't wait!)

What a priviledge, to honor God by sucking the marrow out of this life, whenever He gives us the opportunty! The "seasons" (Eccl. 3:4) change so quickly, so when you get a chance, for God's sake, dance!!!

Deb

[lee (lee)]

I like that, Deb, sucking the marrow out of life! Thats a good way to live!
I've enjoyed your posts and stories.
Yes, I think it was me that saw you at a restaurant in the Berkshires. We never did get copies of the trial....being there for the time we were, was enough. I think the whole thing, infiltrated my life and dreams for a long time after.

[dominic1725 (dominic1725)]

Lee - Thanks for the recommendation. I'm a bit of a movie lover. I like movies with an uplifting message ... courage, honor, gallantry, and the like. (Or, a good gangster movie, too.) When did "Shall We Dance" come out? Is it new?

[lee (lee)]

no Dom, its not a new one. A few years ago at least. It's delightful to watch a very reserved Japanese man learn how to dance!

[kathleen (kathleen)]

dominic1725: Your post on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 1:07 pm: Was Just Great! I really enjoyed the explanation of dancing. Oh forgive the words WOW.....
God Bless
Kathleen

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Dom - my wife and I read the dancing post together. We appreciated it very much!

Thank you for dancing with us my brother.

Blessings,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[bjerwin (bjerwin)]

Oh my God, I say again, Dom is too good to be single... Girls lets get this diamond in some girl's broach.

Jeanne are you getting this!!!???? HRH... again I can't believe you haven't been on this one!!!

Will someone closer to him not find this gem a woman... Jim is Florida too far to travel if I find a couple prospects down here?

[cape_cod (cape_cod)]

BJ,

I can personally attest to the fact that Dom (Jim), is a TRUE gentleman, with a HUGE heart. I have been friends with Jim for 27 years now and have great respect for him. I don't even hold it against him that he's more intelligent than I am. At least he tells me that I shouldn't hold it against him.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif Seriously though, you gals need to get him fixed up with a good Christian woman who's an excellent cook, amongst other things.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif Hey, don't look at me like that, you're the one who's thinking THAT!!!*LOL* Hopefully, by the time that the August reunion rolls around, you gals will have worked your magic in one form or another, and have the perfect woman to introduce him to. Thanks in advance!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

P.S. - No thanks necessary Dom (Jim), I'm ONLY trying to help.*ROTF*
BTW - Is the check in the mail?

- Disclaimer:
Some of the content of this post is FACT, and some is purposefully misleading. Please determine for yourself the fact from the fiction. FACTNet nor ANY of it's representatives in particular, take ANY responsibility for the content of this post. Thank you, and have a nice day.



(Message edited by cape cod on February 24, 2005)

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

Loved the prose on the dance...I hesitated in posting a response only because I differ on some points that I know Dom holds close and I respect those differences. As a matter of fact, I've even had the distinct priviledge of dancing with the Dom.

BJ...you know that I have done some significant work in this area! D is a man who is a gamer...jumps to a challenge and participates with the best of them. However, due to his more pensive, serious, contemplative side (and the amount of "stuff" on his plate) he also moves slowly when it comes to life-altering (not altar-ing) decisions!

That said, it might just be appropriate to stage a dating game in August...Dom could be the contestant & perhaps Joe could be the host...that would be worth the price of admission!

[dominic1725 (dominic1725)]

Kathleen - it's okay ... you can give it a "wow" or even an "amazing" if your blood doesn't curdle in the process. Don't think you know the author anyway, and I won't tell; promise.

Mr and Mrs ralphwells, enjoy the dance my friends.

BJE - Florida is too far to just pick-up a prize-winning SUV, never mind start a "dance". But you are too funny. Oh, and Jeannie did great, but keep HRH latent for now ... you saw the last picture.

Cape Cod - the check IS in the mail.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif You have been very "helpful". http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif As an observer, you and the mrs have had a marvelous dance over the years. What a woman! ... to make you look so good for all these years. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

Finally, HRH!... speaking of making him look good for all these years. < Just couldn't resist. I knew you would "hesitate" a response ... you chicken. You sooo loved it, huh? And you gotto admit ... there's hardly a variable in your "dance", my royal friend. Except that, on occasion, the beer isn't "already opened", despite your stellar Super Bowl performance. Pertaining to your words: "..., it might just be appropriate to stage a dating game in August...Dom could be the contestant &amp; perhaps Joe could be the host...that would be worth the price of admission!" What have I ever done, that would prompt you to concoct such an awkward scheme, and inflict such emotional, public pain? All part of the "that's what are friends for" thing, I suppose. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[cape_cod (cape_cod)]

Now Dominic, that didn't sound like an awkward scheme to me in the very least that HRH conjured up. Needless to say, you're NOT getting ANY younger and perhaps you need to lend yourself to the PROFESSIONALS for a nice change of pace. Can you even see the potential in HRH and I leading you astray? I'd make the PERFECT host for your dating game show. Herrrrrrre's Jimmy...hmmmm, I'm beginning to feel like you don't FULLY trust me!?! Just sit back and enjoy the ride my friend, as it may get a tad bit bumpy at times.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

Dom - I just love to observe testosterone being visibly held in check by force of will and fear of embarassment! -- I know, I know...I could not actually put you in such a position, it's just that my imagination provokes a grin at the possibilities! Generally I inflict pain on my friends only when two or three are gathered together.

Maybe we should just have some sort of a line dance where when the gong sounds you change partners - ever 40 seconds or so...


AND, BTW, in light of your words of surprise that I would consider putting you in such an awkward position (because my heart toward you is true and pure) why did you expect that I would hesitate to respond????? AND why do you consider it cowardly? And here I thought I was using great restraint, respect and circumspection (oy!) to give you room to fill cyberspace with your machismo, albeit robed in splendid words of spun silk, beautifully woven with sensitivity and romantic images.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

Kathleen -- It definitely deserved a "Wow!"

Lee - I happened across your Japanese movie on television recently...couldn't stop watching it!

Ralph - you and Kathleen may have to lead the conga line in August.

James...perhaps we need to have a chat!! I'll send more pictures!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

I don't know Alanna, we won a twist contest about hmmmmm years ago. Perhaps we should teach the younger kids the Chubby Checker thing. *LOL*

[cape_cod (cape_cod)]

HRH,

In regards to sending Jim more pictures, don't forget, he likes BIG strong muscles on his women, because he enjoys being 'dipped' every now and again while dancing.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

Cape - I'm SO glad you are not into being subtle!!!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Ralph - oh, yes...the younger ones would be ROTF if we started twistin'!!! But, ya never know!

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

"Let's twist again....like we did last summer"

[dominic1725 (dominic1725)]

HRH - so sporting of you to consider all those possibilities ... but what makes you think testosterone would be in check. You, among all others must know that the testosterone checks out as to lull the senses, so down the road, an even greater dose of it can applied at the proper, most appropriate moment. Nonetheless, I too see the humor. Thanks for the "imagery". Very funny, very helpful!

Chicken? Alright, I take that back ... just would hate to see a subtle variation in opinion cause you to withdraw your insights ... and you didn't.

Cape Cod = "dip-(blank) ...fill-in the first thing that comes to mind. LOL!

[cape_cod (cape_cod)]

Ralph,

It'll be great to meet you in August. You're a kind hearted, funny guy, with a lot of excellent stories.


HRH,

um, er, HUH? Geez, and here I was trying soooo freakin' hard to be subtle and restrain myself. You should see me when I REALLY cut loose.*L* I'm at my best with a few drinks in me though, I must admit. WHY do you think that Jim would NEVER want me representing him in ANY capacity as some type of dating show host!?! I'm just far too inhibited a person to EVER say ANYTHING that might embarrass him in some way.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Well, I guess that I should go get some sleep now, since I've been up for 24 straight hours now.*L*
Have a nice day everyone! C-Ya!

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Well how do you do twist?

First imagine you have a towel around you, and you're drying off, you move your arms back and forth something like this.

Then you extend one foot like you are putting cigarette out, and you twist it back and forth.

Then you put them together and it looks something like this.

"Now let's all do the peppermint twist.",,,,,,"

[cape_cod (cape_cod)]

Dom,

ShhhhhhhiiiiT came to mind.*ROTF*
Was I close?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif

G'night, I mean, G'day!

***Gone to dreamland and of having my very own dating show***

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Cape Cod,

You could mc the thing ala "Jim Lange" (though your humor is more intune with Dating game producer "Chuck Barris") but please leave the matchmaking to "professionals" ala Lanna, BJ and myself. We are credentialed. Note Dom's reference to "Oh and Jeannie did great."

I must say everytime I see your name on the forum I hear the Patti Page song "Old Cape Cod" in my head.. maybe that could be the theme music?

If you're fond of sand dunes and salty air
Quaint little villages here and there
(You're sure)You're sure to fall in love with old Cape Cod
(Cape Cod, that old Cape Cod)

If you like the taste of a lobster stew
Served by a window with an ocean view
(You're sure)You're sure to fall in love with old Cape Cod

Winding roads that seem to beckon you
Miles of green beneath a sky of blue
Church bells chimin' on a Sunday morn
Remind you of the town where you were born

If you spend an evening you'll want to stay
Watching the moonlight on Cape Cod Bay
You're sure to fall in love with old Cape Cod

(aah, aah)

If you spend an evening you'll want to stay (on Cape Cod Bay)
Watching the moonlight on Cape Cod Bay
You're sure to fall in love with old Cape Cod
You're sure to fall in love
You're sure to fall in love with old Cape Cod

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Sir Cape of Cod, whoops wrong thread, Joe - it will be great to meet you too. And now, based on this statement you made,

"I'm just far too inhibited a person to EVER say ANYTHING that might embarrass him in some way."

I know why there is such an afinity between us, it is because we are both so dog gone shy and introverted! *ROTFLOL*

Love ya brother, pleasant dreams!

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Jeannie - here is what I heard when I read your last post.

"Please , do not attempt this at home! This feat was performed on a closed course by professionals like Lanna, BJ and myself."

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Kathleen - this is especially for you, in honor of this thread, the fifth verse of "The Untitled Hymn" by Chris Rice.

O, and when the love spills over
And music fills the night
And when you can't contain your joy inside, then
Dance for Jesus
Dance for Jesus
Dance for Jesus and live!

Blessings all you dancers,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

Jeannie - Great idea about the theme song. Bet we could tweak the original just a bit and have it fit quite well. Your image of Chuck Barris was great! I did send Dom a plethora of beauties from which to make a selection...he didn't seem overly enthusiastic for some reason!

Ralph - you crack me up...again! You and Cape Coddius inhibited...shy... introverted...? Oh yes, well we'll try to bring you out of your collective shells. Don't suppose either of you have ever held a mic?! Ralph, did like the verse you quoted.

[deb (deb)]

Ralph,
You just quoted one of my very favorite songs, "Untitled Hymn." I had the contemporary Christian music station on at my house one day (satelite tv), not really paying attention to it, just sort of in the background, and that Chris Rice song came on. I can't even explain how powerfully it struck me .... those simple yet powerful words, and beautiful arrangement just took me to another place. Thanks for reminding me!
Deb

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Deb - don't forget, in GGWO we were never "reminded" of something, it was always "new." http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif Okay that exercised the ham in me, now I can get serious.

I absolutely LOVE Chris Rice. "Untitled Hymn" and "Go Light Your World" are my favorites. But "Cartoons" always has me http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif. In case you have not heard it, he wrote it for his kids one Saturday while watching cartoons. It is all about how cartoon chracters would praise God is they got saved. Hilarious song.


Blessings,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[kbneedspeace (kbneedspeace)]

So what is the Biblical doctrine on dancing? I'm all for dancing before the Lord as David did, but some dancing these days is just provocative and doesn't edify the Lord at all. Any opinions on this? Where do we draw the line?
KB

[jeannie (jeannie)]

KB,

It is where the line is for you. I happen to love Ceili dances (Irish folk dancing) but certainly not everyone who enjoy that kind of thing. The line is self-directed. I danced at my son's wedding to Beyonce's "Crazy in Love" and some probably thought I was off. I attended Natalie Steven's wedding a few weeks back and a few old time TBS/GG'ers (guys) were dancing to "It's Raining Men".. they took off their suit coats and were twirling them around. It was very funny and fun, but I am sure some there thought they were off. Some dancing is provocative and I am not comfortable participating but it my own leading not because someone told me I shouldn't. CHS overstepped so many boundary lines in our lives. He invaded the bedroom and the marriage bed. He invaded our family units and told our teenage children they should not date. He told us movies were of the devil and which music we should listen to. It was wrong. It is a whole new experience to listen to our own inner voice and not CHS!

[dominic1725 (dominic1725)]

kb- dancing style is a personal preference, just like the clothes you wear or the way you fix your hair. ... wisdom says not to let your freedoms be a stumbling block to others. Right time and place sort of thing. My opinion of course.

[dominic1725 (dominic1725)]

Disclaimer: Some exceptions to my rule of thumb above, of course. Dirty Dancing and other sexual acts on a dance floor are fairly obvious. But other than that, I recommend the latin set, with a tasteful slit on the side of the dress, a rose stem between the teeth and your favorite gentleman, and off you go.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Good wisdom Dominic.

I recently danced with my mother and sister at my nephews wedding. When Kathleen and I go to to dinner with my two sisters and their husbands we will often go to a fifties non-alcohol dance place (they live in California have a lot of these there) I dance with Kathleen and both my sisters because my brother-in-laws do not dance. My "comfort line" is I only dance with family, and I do not go most places where dancing is offered.

I find no conflict with scripture, but as Dominic pointed out, I will avoid anything that causes a brother or sister to stumble.

Blessings,

Ralph,

1Cor 15:10

[kathleen (kathleen)]

Let's dance and rejoice.....

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>I dance like a camel with it's feet tied together.</font>}

[karen (karen)]

I danced last night as my son's ska band played at a high school event. So much fun! Can't believe I gave up dancing for all those years I was in the ministry.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

I went to a church dance last week! I didn't even know churches danced! It was good clean fun and I had a blast with a dear old friend.. ex-wife of an exGG pastor.

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

Church DANCES????? OMG - must be "off" - !!!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif Good for you Jeannie.

[cape_cod (cape_cod)]

Karen, Jeannie, Alanna,

Well, personally, I think that ALL three of you are "OFF!!!", but what else is new!?!?

[mrsdrysdale (mrsdrysdale)]

HRH..does this mean there will be dancin' at the reunion? What songs do we dance to?..oops..that could be another thread!

[anova (anova)]

Well for starters there will be:


THE PASTOR HORNE'S GREATEST HITS KAREOKE HOUR!

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif That deserves a double, Anova! Mrs. D. - I'm guessing that the spirit will move at some point and feet will start tapping and then...and then....swaying to the music may turn into dance!!! Bring those tambourines you old hippies!

(Message edited by herroyalhighness on May 26, 2005)

[shat_happens (shat_happens)]

i thought stevens outlawed dancing years ago, that and rock music?

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

I dance really well, as long as I keep it in my head.

[kathleen (kathleen)]

wonderful music Bob
always smile

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
I like to slow dance with my wife.
Other than that I do have something against dancing,Me.LOL
If I dance It just doesn't look right let alone like dancing.

</font>}