This will never happen

[dancer (dancer)]

My suggestion to the Pastors in all of these churches and the whole experiance is that as of today they put themselves in a situation where they start being accountable for the past mistakes of others and go forward with God so that others may be healed. That means they accept they are given the charge of addressing the wrongs done by others and making amends in the name of Christ.

Pastor Hogarth oddly it starts with you. See I think you of all people know what I am talking about. Best wishes and Good Luck

[rightorwrong (rightorwrong)]

why doesn't iagm allow the churches a voting right as they will be funding the blunt of the association?
this is a question I have asked several times and have not gotten an answer yet... and yes i did post on iagms board and asked the same question...
it appears to be an association of and for pastors but wanting the numbers {churches} to finance it
bull crap

[dancer (dancer)]

I am building a website that will post information on each one of the churches and information on its characters. That is why I alluded to Pastor Hogarth.

rightorwrong your asking a reasoanable question. They are not a church association. They are a clergy association.

[rightorwrong (rightorwrong)]

then there is not really any accountibilty except to like minded people. let the clergy support themselves in there own association.
why not start a church association and the pastors can join after they meet the qualifications set by the churches association after all its the people who own the physical church buildings and all that goes with it.
there would be alot more accountability to the congragations. im sure the people would be willing to let any pastor who joined have a vote as well be on commitees.

[redpurusha (redpurusha)]

"Because right or wrong, I'm right, and you're wrong." -Stephen Corbert

That says it all.

[jayso (jayso)]

rightorwrong, There are churches in the Northeast and all over that have "congregational rule". It's not so easy when a church allows all members to vote. If you have ever belonged to a church which allows members to vote on all issues, you would understand what I mean.

In a church where the "wheat grows with the tares", often unsaved or misled people campaign for issues which clearly are against the Mind of Christ. There has to be a balance. Some denominations got the voting thing right (see AOG, SBC) and some got it wrong (see UCC).

When TBS was started, it was a "one man ministry" FOUNDED by CHS. There are other "one man" started ministries that almost always have no membership voting power.

In order to have a 501 C3 Church corporation recognised by the IRS, there must be a "board of directors". The board on self started ministries are usually members of the founder's family or other "yes men" who rubber stamp everything the founder/president proposes. It is not "fair and balanced".

One "self made ministry" in Vermont has a pastor who lives lavishly and spends loads of money on personal items. One year he put in an olympic sized swimming pool in his "parsonage" yard. When a member of his church questioned it, he was told it was a "church expense" because it is a "baptismal tank". Yeah, right!

People who fund a church should have some say in how their money is spent. The "trust God" ONLY approach can lead to being a bad steward of the church's money.

Doesn't it all come down to money?

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
jayso,
you make a very good point.When money becomes the center instead of Christ's life and Word,then everything begins to go in the wrong direction.
We know that the Love of money is the root of evil because it becomes like a fix for a heroin addict.
Money is a needed tool but many times it gets elevated to the position of becoming a God unto itself.
People must always take into account the effect it has on them and protect themselves from it allure.
There is a balance that has to come into play in these matters.Money should always be considered just one tool in the toolbox.

Dave
</font>}

[jayso (jayso)]

I was once employed by a Congregationalist New England church affiliated with the UMC. This church voted on EVERYTHING! Unfortunately most of the voting members were unsaved. Even though they voted for me to be their pastor, they voted also as to what type of sermons I could preach and what words I could and could not use.

I was pastor of a "house divided". Half the members loved me and half hated me. It was tough to get anything done in that church. With God's help, we built up the membership of that church and preached an uncompromising message. A few people got saved and faithfully supported the message. I had constant complaints from the "pulpit committee" section of the "board of CONTROL" (no kidding, it was called the BOARD OF CONTROL!).

I stuck it out almost four years, then turned in my two month notice. For the two months, I preached the Word (unhindered) and refused to wear "the vestments". Basically I said "take this job and shove it"! BTW, the pay was lousy anyhow http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I don't know if that church is still around today or what they are doing. I know they hired a liberal woman pastor after I left. One that wouldn't even sing a hymn if it had the name of Jesus in it. She didn't want to offend "non Christians". So the board of control voted who they wanted in.

They must have been desperate when they hired me. They were "stuck" because they could never get more than half the church to "vote me out".

Well, this is why I say that having church members vote on EVERYTHING can be worse than not voting at all. What to preach and how to preach it should be the pastor's choice. If people don't like it, they can vote him/her out of the pulpit by a majority OR just leave the church.

There are a lot of wonderful churches in denominations you would never expect. Some of the most spiritually alive Christians I have met have been in Lutheran, Episcopal, Presbyterian and Methodist churches. The building is not the church, the people are. If the people are open to the things of God and allow His Spirit to guide them, it doesn't matter what denomination it is, they will be blest and have true Liberty!