How the Pastaah destroys body life

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

by Frank Viola:
The pastoral office has stole yuor right to function as a member of christ's Body. We are living stones, not dead ones. It has shut your mouth and strapped you to a pew.It has distorted the reality of the Body making the Pastor a giant mouth and has transfromed you into a tiny ear.It has rendered you a mute spectator who is proficient at taking sermon notes and passing an offering plate.But that's not all. The modern pastor office has overthrown the main thrust of the letter to the Hebrews-the ending of the old priesthood. It has made ineffectual the teaching of 1 Cor 12-14, that every member has both the right and the privledge to minister in a church meeting. It has vioded the passage of 1 Pet 2 that every brother and sister is a functioning priest. Being a functioning priest doesn't mean that you many only perform pinched forms of ministry like, singing songs in your pew, raiseing your hands during worship, flipping transparencies, or teaching a Sunday school class. That is not the NT idea of ministry. These are mere aids for the Pastor's ministry. We treat the Pastor as if he were the professional expert. We expect doctors and lawyers to serve us. And why? Becaus ehtey are the experts, they are the trained professionals.Unfortunaley, we look upon the Pastor in the same way. All of this does violence to the fact that every believer is a priest.Not only before God, but to one another. But there is something more, much more serious in nature! The modern Pastorete rivals the functional Headship of Christ in His church. It illegitimately holds the unique place of centrality and headship among God's people.A place that is only reserved for ONE person-the Lord Jesus. Jesus christ is the only head over a church and the final word to it. By his office , the Pastor displaces and supplants Christ Headship by setting himself up as the churches human head.
For this reason, nothing so hinders the fulfillment of god's eternal purpose as does the modern pastor role. Why? Becaus ethat purpose is centered on making chridt Headship visibly manifested in the church through the free, open, every member functioning of the body. ( What do you think of this line?) As long as the pastoral office is present, you will never witness such a thing. Going going going gone to PA

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
You make a good point GTP.
The ussurpation of the believer priesthood under the guise of pastoral autharity.Such a diminishing of the body's particular membership representative of the expression of Christ through the operation of the assigned gifts.Gifts which are used to build up and edify as well as reveal who Christ is in the universal body on earth.
Quite a message there bro.

Love in Christ,

Dave</font>}

[lana (lana)]

Gone to pa, What a great post. Makes me think, and read it again. Bless you

[steve_quinlan (steve_quinlan)]

GTP and all:

I was going to take a break from FN for a while, but I can't bring myself to let this pass without comment. I'm not going to get into a big debate on this, but I thought it may be interesting for some to know a little about me in this regard.

In my denomination (Presbyterian Church (USA)) we believe strongly in the headship of Christ and the priesthood of all believers. We make no formal distinction between “clergy” and “laity.” We have two ordained offices: deacons and elders. Deacons and elders are neither self-selected nor appointed by a hierarchy – all are elected and ordained by the people of the church who have themselves prayerfully sought to discern the calling of God. Within the office of elder we recognize ruling elders and teaching elders. Teaching elders are also called ministers of word and sacrament. I am a minister of word and sacrament. We believe that elders who preach the word and celebrate the sacraments should be fully equipped to do so. This equipping includes formal education and the church’s discernment of the gifts and calling of the Holy Spirit.

I serve a church as a minister of word and sacrament. I have very limited powers and very clear responsibilities. Both these powers and responsibilities are given by the church, monitored by the church and are for the benefit of the church. I am not head over anything. My calling and ordination look to scripture for their warrant. (e.g. Ephesians 4:11-12) My charge is “to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ.” (emphasis added) In my ordination I solemnly vowed to "<u>serve the people </u>with energy, intelligence, imagination and love."

Most of the people in the church I serve call me “Steve,” some call me “Pastor Steve” or “Pastor Quinlan.” These latter appellations are not indicative of a pastoral “office,” but of a perceived function that I have in some peoples lives (John 21:15f ; 1Peter 5:1ff etc.).

GTP, I am trying not to take this too personally. I appreciate some of the points that you make above, but many of the things you write here are broad generalizations. While some of your points may apply to some “pastors,” all of your points do not apply to all. <u>I for one will not be tarred with the same brush as self-appointed, non-accountable, self-serving, pastoral “lords.”</u>

When I left TBS in 1981, I still felt a call to serve the church (body of Christ) and preach the gospel. I immediately renounced the bogus ordination of TBS, stopped preaching and started from ground zero. After being an ego-bloated “big fish in a small pond,” I rejoiced to become a “nobody” as I went back to college and then to seminary. For nearly seven years I studied and sought God’s direction. When I was called and ordained it was not merely a matter of deciding this for myself. I was called, I believe, by God through the actions of the people of the church whom I would serve. To all my brothers and sisters, I believe GTP draws heavily on the thoughts expressed by “Present Testimony Ministry.” I would encourage you to go to their web site at www.ptmin.org (http://www.ptmin.org) . These good folks believe that they are recovering a “primitive Christianity.” Read their materials for yourself. I urge you to use discernment and care.

SQ

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Hey Steve,
Before you warn the world of where you think I draw (heavily) my thoughts from,take a look at who I said the author of this writing was. Does it not say Frank Viola? They are not my thoughts, but those of the new or maybe old now House Church Movement. You call it Primitive, I call it New Testament. Also for your information, there is another site that has used many of Frank's idea's and have had very good success at it. As a matter of fact, their church was in existance for 10yrs before they built the convetional Building. If interested go to <font color="ff0000">www.xenos.org</font> Plus their teachings are very down to earth. I will wait until later to post the second part of this writing entitled "How the Pastor Destroys Himself" SQ, if you care to because I think it would take very much space to answer the questions I am going to ask you next,plus I wouldn't want you to miss your break from FN, please feel free to e-mail me, when you get back. I would like to know the answer to the question that is on many web-sites around the world, " Will The Emerging Church Ever Emerge?" Also Steve are you and the other ministers, elders, deacons, payed staff? What are your thoughts on the House Church? Do you think the world is ready for a complete paradigm shift? Steve just to let you know, I had already attempted to post" How The Pastor Destroys Himself" but accidently erased it. It will come after I feel as though everyone has made comments about the above post. I sure am glad your not taking this to personally, because it was never intended that way, but around here no matter what you say, unless giving someone a compliment, you'll always find someone to take offense. FYI: I was sick of the ordination process at GG also, see my story, " Can any good come out of GG" I'm am still in school, but not GG, and I was ordained as a Pastor in 2003,(not a GGWO Pastor) so anything that is said about the Pastor, I say about myself. I have already on different posts urged folks to go to ptmin. I think it will open the eyes of many. Thank you, and we'll talk after your break.

Gone to Pa
relying heavily on the Lord

[jayso (jayso)]

http://isthistheway.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/05/freed_from_chur.html

The above link is to an article "Freed from Churchianity"

" And some interesting stuff about the clergy laity distinction in organised religion:

'Support of the pastor and his vision cannot be mandated; either the Spirit bears witness with what is happening or He doesn't. Titular authority is based on perceived rank, status, charisma, spiritual gift or popular appeal: it's a fantasy, a piece of dirt painted gold.

'The philosophy of Organized Religion is to maintain the distinction between clergy and laity. To reinforce this philosophy most churches consider the pastor (or priest) to be the spiritual head of the church. Most pastors see the local church as an extension of their own personal ministry and calling, thus the congregation is made in the image of the pastor. It is important that we note this carefully, for we maintain that God's people do not belong to anyone but Christ, and the Church is His Church, and not ours. All authority is given to Him, and whatever weight or influence we as individuals have over one another is ours by reason of our depth of knowing Christ and our willingness to love and serve one another. The "elders" are just that - those who are older and more experienced in the things of the Lord, the implication being that they are more conformed to His image and are thus gentle, loving, kind, and able to instruct and encourage the younger.'"

[lana (lana)]

Personally, I like Frank Violas way. It is simple. Too many rules and structures get in the way. I'd rather stay home.

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
This post by GTP has more relative application to pastors that think more highly of themselves than they ought and forget that they are only members of the body that they are in a position to teach.
I don't assume that he is using this to refer to those pastors that see themselves as fellow members and have a balanced view on thier position.

Dave</font>}

[lana (lana)]

A local assembly is a microcosm of a body. The "head", cannot function without its many members. THe 'Heads" function is to insure the health and growth of its body, just as we do ours. They are equally important. One cannot survive without the other. Thats a large responsibility for the "head". You have to be called, not made. Thats what i read in Violas writing. So many churches minimise people into emotion, and dependence on outward stimuli to keep them captive. They love the adulation. It means money and big crowds. This to me is not Christian at all!

[misil (misil)]

i would like to say that, i love factnet for one reason."diffrent viewpoints". i love the fact that you all make me think about things and acctually get my bible out and look at all the scriptures for the specific subject and find the balance to it all, because that is really where it is at.most denominational church doctrine has its good points and bad points. its fact and its error. i thionk this is the problem with trying to set things in stone according to "our limited knowledge", i mean, we dont know all the scriptures so how can we say we are dogmatically right and everyone else is wrong.the one thing we should be sure of is , the love of God surpasses our knowledge!!! alot of times i can see after studying everyones point out that there is some validity in what each are saying.(most times when dealing with leadership that is off to one side.)but those points from both sides(or mutiple side) must be looked at without bias and without supossing that what you believe is fact and everyone elses view is off. i dont think that that is humble or safe thinking. we will always be learning and finding scriptures that will hone our doctrine. and we cant be unwilling to take a look at others views as if they have absolutly no validity in the name of our set teachings.
one thing we are sure of is the eternity of our salvation. but as for doctrine other then that, please lets not be so proud as to deny anothers view, as if we are RIGHT and they are WRONG.
better to say, "with the facts i NOW have i dont AGREE at this point in my walk"

[itsahokes (itsahokes)]

Frank Viola? I always knew him as the Red Sox pitcher who shared my daughter's birthday.

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Hello brothers and sisters,
I don't know if I have ever shared this with you all, but I am writing a book entitled "Finding Zoe" As many of you already know Zoe is that supernatural overflowing abundant life that is availible to the saints of God, if we so desire to partake of that life. Here is a story that i'm not sure that I have shared or not. When we would go to the Westminster rescue Mision, I would teach a Grace Overcomers class which would last about 1 hour.A couple of precious people who were on the Block Team came with me to the Mission, not so much for the G.O. meeting, but for the gathering after the meeting. In places like a mision, or rehab, or a prison, you could tell who were the brothers or sisters who were serious about their walk with the Lord. An offer was made before the ending of the G.O. class, that if anyone wanted to stay and have some fellowship we would make ourselves availible....Well this one week about 5 or 6 guys stayed after and as always we started of with prayer for 20 minutes to 1/2 hr. Now we are sitting in the chapel, and we are not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together. And as we are there in His name, 2 or more gahered together into His name, and the Lord shows up and as we begin, many of the men were hungry for the Lord and truth. They began to ask questions that either myself or one or the other who had showed up started to answer these men's questions. One of the people that was on our team that day was a woman. The reason i say this is because it is my belief that when we do gather together into His name, there should be both sexes present. Now this is how it hapens, the Lord shows up as the all in all. Both the male side of Lev 4 the male bullock without spot and also the female side, the Red Heifer of Nu 19 representing the potential bride of Christ. Now the words that are coming forth from the righteous are feeding many. And because we have women present in our assembly we really get to hear a pespective that might not have been shared with us this day if she (the Lady) doesn't come out with us. And we are sitting, and the Bread of Life is being broken before our very eyes and distributed to all equally. Every lively stone has a portion that the Lord has specially prepared for that moment for that person. Now a brother ask in a very quiet voice, almost a whisper, " Why is it when I do something wrong, does the Lord take away my Salvation?" Now,one of the men in the program tells his friend and brother that isn't the way of our father in heaven, but yet the man is still not convinced, but as we go around the room and everyone shares what the Lord has placed on their hearts for that moment, you witness with your own two eyes, the Lord, the Ancient of Days, working on the inside, and now the man gets a little defensive and wants to make his point because someone somewhere has taught him that he will loose his salvation if he even smokes a cigarette. Now the woman on our team shares her portion of what the fathers heart is really like, and this is not intended as an offence to man, but I know for myself that I wouldn't have said the things she did, in the way she presented them. And now the Lord starts to ask the man questions. Peircing, down to the bone. " If you backslide, how long will I wait until I take your salvation?" One week,one month, 3 mos or six mos? Is there a time limit on walking away from God? The man has no reply, then more questions What sin will be the one that will take away your salvation? Which sin was it that I did not die for?" Now the man is starting to see, and I mean see something that he has never seen, not really. He starts to see The Heart of the Father and he begins to weep. And as he is weeping, he is asking questions that he already knows the answers to because the Lord is there this day, in the midst. " you mean even if I smoke, I'm not going to hell? You mean if I struggle with an area of sin in my life, I don't have to worry myself to death that he will return that day to send me to a fiery death. And now the tears become tears of joy, as we sit and watch the transformation the Lord has performed in this man's life, and we begin to think,, Lord; who are we that you would share the beauty of what you have just accomplished through us. And we sit there quietly just meditating on the goodness of the Lord. How faithful He is to show up when we come together, and use each and everyone of us to accomplish His will. Amazing! We don't want to leave , but our time is up, and it is just as well,because if it had been much more we might have exploded. (or at least that's the way it felt) We drive back down into Baltimore. We are kind of like debriefing ourselves and getting ready to go back out into the world again and can't wait until the next time we get a chance to Share the Life of the Lord.This wasn't the only time like this, there were many more, but i believe that this type of fellowship is ours for the taking if we want it. I believe if we are going to come together, this should be our normal everyday routine. Wouldn't it be wonderful to share the Life of the Lord daily like this? He has so much He wants to share with us, if only we will just listen!!!

THANKYOU FOR YOUR TIME AND LOVE
I'M GONE TO PA

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

More on the Pastor from the same sourse:
Simply put Jesus Christ never intended any person to sport all the hats that the pastor is expected to wear.He never intended any man to bare such a load. The demands of the pastorate are crushing.So much so that they will drain any mortal dry.Imagine for a moment that you were working for a company that paid you on the basis of how good you made your people feel.What if your pay depended on how entertaining you were, how friendly you were, how popular your wife and children were, how well dressed you were, and how perfect was your behavior? Can you imagine the unmitagated stress that would cause you? Could you see how such pressure would force you into playing to a pretentious role-all to keep your power, your prestige, and your job security? ( For this reason most Pastors are impervious to receiving any kind of help)The pastoral profession dictates standards of conduct just like any other profession, whether it be a teacher, doctor, lawyer. The profession dictates how Pastors are to dress, speak, and act.This is one of the reasons why Pastors live very artificial lives. In this regard, the pastoral role fosters dishonesty. Congregants expect their Pastor to always be cheerful, availible at a moments call, never resentful, never bitter, have perfectly disciplined families and to be completly spiritual at all times.Pastors play to this role like actors in a Greek drama. This accounts for the strange voice change when most pastor's pray.It accounts for the pious way they fold their hands.
94% feel pressured to have a perfect family 90% work more than 46hours a week. 81% say they have insufficient time with their spouse.80% believe that pastoral ministry affects their family negatively 70% do not have someone they consider a close friend 70% have lower self esteem then when they entered the ministry 50% feel unable to meet the needs of the job, 80% are discouraged and deal with depression, 40%+ report that they are suffering from burnout, frantic schedules and unrealistic expectations. 33% consider pastoral ministry an outright hazzard to the family.33% have seriously considered leaving their position in the last year. 40% of pastoral resignations are due to burnout.75% go through a period of stress so great they consider quitting. Most pastors are expected to juggle 16 major tasks at once, and most crumble under the pressure. For this reason 1,600 ministers in all denominations accross the U.S. are fired or forced to resign each month. Over the past 20 yrs, the average length of a pastorate has declined from 7yrs to just over two years.
I thought this might help all of us, including myself to see things from a different perspective. WOW, 1,600 Pastors a month, that's sad, really sad.
Praying for all of you
a Pst Gone to PA

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Bump

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Hello again all,

To all my family in and out of Christ. Does anyone think from reading the above post that the stats might point to some of the reasons why any, not just CHS, but why some Pastor's have a hard time. I really thought that where it says that the Pastors role fostors dishonety, and many live artificial lives. I go back to a post that somewhere here did that talked about Carl's background, then his success in the ministry and the pressure to " Keep it going" so to speak. I'll see if I can find the thread, but I remember it said volume's. Did you think with all the stuff stated above, and the pressure of " Preaching an Annointed Message" everytime you spoke, placed Carl in a sphere of deception? How does the old saying go? " Oh the tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>

The first churches fellowshipped in this manner that Tom posted above.Each adding their portion as the Holy Spirit led them.Each one building one another up as they shared from their gifts and calling given to them as the Spirit saw fit.
In this way was the body of Christ revealed.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

To every man severally as He will.The Lord layed on no one person the "ministry" instead He parted out to all,that which was meat for the body.That which when jointly fit together,reveals the whole.

The Lord shows us who He is through us.Not just as individuals but as His body.
The stronger parts taking care for the weaker though they are no less a part.

1 Corinthians 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1 Corinthians 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

Tom has shown how the scriptures reveal our need for each others part in this mystery called Christ's body and as I have stated many times, You and I are a part of one another that none of us can do without.
---------------------------

Pastors do take upon themselves much more than was intended by the Lord.
Somewhere it has crept into the church that only the pastor speaks a "message."

This takes away from the body as a whole,leaving off the parts that make up the fitly framed together body of Christ.

I think of a pastor as a conductor in an orchestra.Each member having use for their gift as the Holy Spirit leads them.All having part in the showing forth of Christ.The pastor keeping things in the order of the Spirit as we find in
1 Corinthians 14:26-33 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

I have seen pastors fall because they take unto themselves more than they are called to bear.I have seen some just up and leave the call upon their lives because of this.

The gifts are placed within the body and as the body gathers together the Spirit brings forth the gifts to reveal the Lord's will and to build up the body.
Otherwise the pastor who takes it all upon himself walks a path that carries with it burdens not meant for one to bear.

Dave</font>}

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Dave,
You said it brother. In what i am going to say please don't think that i am knocking conventional church as it is held today. We are the church. As I stated in the story above about being at the mision and the Lord showing up, if you do happen to pick up a copy of John Eldredge's book; "Waking The Dead" He tell
s of a story in the back of the book of how not only does he go to his usual Baptist church on Sundays and Wednesdays, but within the Body there (I guess) he has a group of friends, or should I say brothers and sisters in the Lord,and it is a small tight knit group. Hev believes as I do that you can only get to know so many people the way that is needed for a small group as a New Testament community. If I thought for a moment that fokks would read this story in his book i would put it on here though it is long it shows how a small community of believers, being there for one another, and I mean being there in the full sense of the term, have learned to have an experience with the Lord, a very powerful experience, ( notice i didn't say an emotional display) but an experience where all learned to actually forgive one another. Do you understand the kind of commitment it would take that while functioning in this community you wouldbe hurt by someone, but NO MATTER WHAT, you forgave them, and cared, accepted, exhorted, submitted, and confessed your sins one to another what a close knit community you would be! John in this bokk talks about a lady who was meant to dance, but because of persecution, family, you know having kids and the whole nine, she put it off for 30 years. Yet she was still so good that she could have been a teacher of dance. It talks about how she finally got the courage to try afyter 30 yrs in a church dance group only to have them, slander her because they were jealous of her ability.Now all these things come against her, FEAR, SHAME, and judgement all came at her, but one night the men in the group prayed all night just for her. Can we even imagine such a commmunity that caring? And to make a long story short she had the chance to dance in front of some very important people, and was scared, like is this a set-up from the devil, but remember people had been on their knee's for her, and now this is how it went. As the big day was approaching she lost her room to rehearse, she pulled a hamstring, her choreagrapher bailed. Now let me put it in John's words. " The Enemy laughed and mocked and threw the book at her. But her fellowship would not let her go. We slew the orc's, we found the trail, we stuck together. After all those years Leigh finally danced. And she was glorious, I mean it was powerful. Her performance launched other oppurtunities to dance. And it would not have happened without her friends. I could fill a book with stories like that one, involving each member of our fellowship as we live in the four streams on behalf of one another. It's really quite normal, as ordinary as sending out for Chinese food or chatting on the phone"
Wow, how I long to live and be involved in this type of community. There is another story after that one, but I'll make you buy the book, but what is real here is that this type of community and fellowship is availible to us. The Lord loves to show up in the midst, and He is obligated to because this is His promise to us. Don't get me wrong, these people also go out together and do all kinds of things, camping, horseback riding, all kinds of out door stuff. They are a community of believers who fellowship in the Life of the Lord. Their fellowship is with the Father and His Son, and the Lord moves through them as something i had never witnessed myself. The story I wrote above was at the Rescue Mission, but could you imagine that times 10 almost every day of your life. Is there anything else outside the Life of the Lord that we desire? I can truthfully say that I am spoiled and when we experienced just a nice sample ( maybe not the best word) of what the Lord has in store for us, I'll tell you, anything else is, well let me just say " Not His Life" God bless you all.
I pray for you
please pray for this web-site
because even here the Devil can get
in and ruin a good thing. He almost has for me on more than one occasion, and between him and my flesh, this FN can use all the prayer it can get. As far as I've seen, it is here to serve a purpose. To expose, to expose lies and deception going on right in the midst of God's people. With Satan and his crowd behind the deception of literally thousands of believers, FN and all who post here, pro and con need to pray for one another.
Again I'm Gone
Pastor Tom Mitchell

[disenchanted (disenchanted)]

The topic of this thread is so sad. The last service I attended at our local disaffiliated church was Sunday, December 18, 2005. I love the people in our local Body of Christ so much, and this includes my former pastor and his wife. I know people are praying for me, and can actually feel the results of those prayers. The tension, confusion, wariness, etc., are gone! I’m astounded at the peace and restfulness I’m living in, even though I asked for and was given the peace Jesus promised to give us.

I don’t understand why it seems as if I’m the only one who has a problem with crossing out verses from the Bible. It just breaks my heart to think of the teens and children who heard this from the pastor. How can they grow up and have any confidence in God? If His own words to us can be crossed out if they don’t seem to fit, or might be inconvenient, how can they trust the Bible as sacred and holy? How can this practice breed anything but unbelief?

I have wondered if this is a change, or if he’s felt this way right along, and I never noticed. I have a feeling the issues, difficulties and pressures of life have possibly just revealed his heart as it always was. All of a sudden not having church on Christmas, or a sunrise service at Easter makes more sense. I have been so blind.

Why would God allow all this to go on? People from this church have been leaving for months if not years now for a variety of reasons. It turns out that the reasons I’ve been given aren’t the real reasons at all. Now others are being told I left for a really stupid reason that isn’t remotely close to the truth.

In an ideal world (in my opinion of course), this wouldn’t be going on. The pastor would leave, and we could all stay together. Our local body of Christ, unbroken.

[aurora (aurora)]

We were lied about too- about why we left the branch we attended for 20+ years. The various versions have been repeated to us by those who they(the pastor and his wife) told. It used to make me angry because they just made up stuff but now (its been almost 2 years since I left) it just makes me chuckle at their silly efforts at "damage control"!

My husband and I are really enjoying the "regular" Christian world. We see all the time how weird tbs/ggwo is and was- that "ministry" we always believed was the ULTIMATE BODY experience! Ridiculous.

[pressing_on1 (pressing_on1)]

Disenchanted,
I'm very sorry to hear your heartache. After leaving GG I felt many of those emotions. I was so dissapointed that the men I had trusted had lied and mislead me, along with all others, even if they haven't seen it yet.

I will tell you this, this is a time when all of your concepts of who you think God is will be broken. But do not be dismayed this also is the time when God can truly reveal Himself to you. And you will find that He is with and has been with you all along.
Christ's body exists outside of the confounds of the building you attended and in time He will lead you to other believers who have precious hearts after Him.

[no_touch_love (no_touch_love)]

IT'S TAHM TA PUT ON DADDIES WICKED LOVE BOAH...OH DADDY NOOO!!!

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/