Children of the Ministry

[jeannie (jeannie)]

A post from Estelles:

Forgive me for re-posting this, Estelles. But adminstrators of FACTNet recently changed the format and I did not want your post to get lost too far down in the threads.

I knew you at 5 years old, Estelles... Quite an independent thinker in kindergarten! I knew you as a teen in Baltimore, and I still make your Jam Thumbprint cookies each Christmas! Welcome to the forum.. you have made my day!


Estelles wrote:

I may be coming in late but this is the perfect place for my first post.

My family came into TBS when I was 3. I've been in branch ministries, home base, Lenox and Baltimore. My father is an affiliate pastor. I was a teen in GGWO. I sat under messages surrounded in services by the sea of nodding heads. I was emotionally damaged by the tactics of the youth "ministry". I knew nothing else. }}

I left as soon as I became independent as a young adult. I have many of the same experiences as indicated in some of your earlier posts. I probably know some of you. I've always looked back thinking of those I grew up with... wondering... are their minds free? Do they know their true position in Christ? I've been out of GGWO now for over a decade.

This is a great forum. I gotta go explore now.

[ski (ski)]

That's another and very sad part of GGWO.
Free will violation. Yes I consider it like that. Kids brought to the sermons and raps etc right from the cradle. It's good that they would have knowledge about Christ, but they also fed with all the evil plots and conspiracy junk from the "teacher". I remember when 8 or 9 years old David Post (I don't remember exactly what age he was back then) told after a series of sermons in Kaliningrad: I think I am not saved. He was very sad and it seemed he felt guilty.
Sure that is not only happening in GGWO. Like the public school my son attends now. They force kids with russian orthodox lessons. Can you imagine that? Kaliningrad is a multinational city. The class of my son have kids from lithuanian, polish, estonian, jewish, russian families and they all have to study russian orthodox junk! In the school they say it is free attendance class, but it's not the last and not the first one in the schedule, so kids can't avoid it!
The point I want to make - children deserve to have childhood. It is a crime to involve kids in dirty politics and religious cults. If somebody says "I am parent and I decide what my kid is going to do", for me it is the same as this parent owns a toy he can play anywhere anytime.
I will always do my best keep my child away from "doctrines" etc. It should be only basic christian teaching about open way to God through Jesus. Nothing else. No conspiracies, no plots.
The time will come when my son will use his free will to make a decision and it is sad that there are some kids in the World who have no other option, they may never accept Christ since the free will is pressed down from the very start.

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

Great posts. When I used to be a youth worker in an affiliate church, I also saw how kids were taught to never think for themselves and blindly believe and obey what they were told to by the pastors and youth leaders. They were not allowed to have a healthy childhood but had to put the GGWO program of Pastor Love above themselves, their friends, and their own families. Its all about fitting in and playing politics. Those who don't play the game are rejected, treated like trash, and maligned. I've seen firsthand the emotional damage this can do. Why can't people just be themselves and read the Bible for themselves to find the truth. The pastors are supposed to be an aid to that process but that's not the GGWO way. Kids are expected to worship Pastor Love and the other leaders like the adults are expected to worship Stevens and now Schaller. I saw enough Pastor Love worship to make me want to puke. Its sure sick to see kids striving to attain social status by seeking entrance to the cliques closest to Pastor Love. Politics, favors, beliving man made doctrines, its all there. All I could do was enlighten kids I knew to the real truth and expose the sins of GGWO from within. I was an enemy combatant to GGWO for several years while still a youth worker until they finally forced me out for not going along with the GGWO teaching. Now I just expose them and work with kids from the outside. I'm sure that there are some other enemy combatants still working in the youth program enlightening kids to the real truth and of course many more are on the outside. May God be with them all so more kids can be rescued from this disgusting cult.

[linda (linda)]

Ski, that is a very good observation. I have tried for years to find a good church for my family to learn under. I am always disgusted by what I eventually find going on under the surface. My past experiences have made my 'antennas' ultra -sensitive. The things we all testify to observing in GGWO ministry are very prevalent in other churches, as well. Is this just the state of society? Where can we find the 'real thing' where we, as well as our children, are safe???

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

Great point Linda, finding a safe healthy church for the whole family can be very hard. I've seen some GGWO style crap in other churches too. One church I attended for a while also had some pastor worship with the associated cliques. People who didn't fit in with the culture there were ignored and left with unmet needs. I remember a poor girl there with severe depression who was ignored so much, she couldn't stand it anymore and one day put a pistol in her mouth and ended it all. That pastor could have done a lot more for her. He also refused to help a young boy in their youth group who was physically abused by his rich father who gave lots of money to the church. The pastor didn't want to lose out on those big donations. Yeah, its a sick world out there. I do pray that you can find a good church somewhere. May God be with you.

[hey_you (hey_you)]

sidethorn,

did you ever get an email address that I can email you with??

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

Good morning hey_you. You can reach me at x73sidethorn@yahoo.com. I just set it up and this address should be working. I'll be around occasionly, I got a lot of things going on right now so my response time may be slow, but I will get back with you. Have a good one.
SIDETHORN

[estelles (estelles)]

sidethorn... I could have cut and pasted half your letter! Very reminiscent.

Marked teens are especially sad cases because they have no choice in the matter. They go where their parents go. Marked teens are sheep to wolves, unprotected, undeserving. The cry over the wall of a crazy compound quote was the first quote I read here. It smacked of my life.

The youth ministry's mechanisms were publicly discouraged yet silently promoted. Confusion and frustration is the mind of the marked teen. Performance to facilitate acceptance is the standard. Yet God cut through all that haze straight to me. He heard me.

I have been stalked, followed, harrassed, confronted, brought under lights in the presence of only male youth leaders, aggressively questioned, reported on by other peers and youth leaders specifically recruited for this purpose. I have been suspended in school and ostracized from teen functions for activities I engaged in outside of school hours such as playing basketball on the playground with non GGWO teens. I have had mothers rush to the sidewalks to drag their toddlers indoors as if my very presence might infect them. I have sat under Love's insistence that our souls would be eternally scarred for youthful mistakes. I have heard the whispers, "cockatrice eggs... infected... the atmosphere changed when you entered the room."

My offense? Being 15. Objectively seeking truth from the scripture rather than personal doctrine. Challenging practice against biblical truth and having the audacity to remark about it before others. Marked teens grow into skeptical adults.

I know I speak for countless others who grew up back then as well as those experiencing it now.

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

May God be with you and protect you Estelles. I hope you can find a healthy teen ministry somewhere else. Your story is heartwrenching but all too typical of those who GGWO doesn't like whether they be teens or youth workers. Some parents from my old teen group avoid me and try to keep their kids away from me because they believe all the GGWO bull#### about me being evil and some kind of pervert. They lie and even make up stuff about the one they dislike to turn everyone against them. They think we might infect them when in fact we're part of the cure. How Sad.

[estelles (estelles)]

I've been out of it for years now. I am actively involved in a healthy church. One can't underestimate the hold that GGWO mentality still has even on its former members. Yes, its a mindset that has plagued me into adulthood. Every so often I have to make a concerted effort to crop that kind of thinking when it raises its ugly head. I remind myself of where it originated and thank God I am not bound by false authority anymore.

The positive side of my experience is that it has caused me to weigh scripture and seek truth for myself. What a healing process that is! I was taught to think that spirituality was a goal I had yet to attain, when in fact it is the process that is the goal. It is perservering; it is keeping on in my faith.

[plaid (plaid)]

Intersting post Estelles, I could have written most of it myself (except the father part). My mother joined when I was 3 or 4, and I lived my entire life in Bible Speaks until I was 18 and able to leave legally. That co-incided with the move to Baltimore so I was able to slip through the cracks pretty easily.
I am pretty sure I was a "marked" teen. Of course it took me years to realize that I wasn't a disgusting piece of filty garbage just because I wasn't one of Love's protogees. Took a while though!

One of the things that I am so vigiliant now about with my own kids is making sure they have a VERY normal childhood - fun, activities, making sure they know they are so loved and cherished by thier parents. GGWO took a lot of that from a lot of kids - their parents were so exhausted from doing ministry stuff the kids got the tired leftovers. Sad and infuriating.

I also have joined a really normal and very pro-family church, one that promotes normal, healthy, family life. And when my kids are teens I won't be letting some idiot youth "paster" serve as a replacement parent either, that is for sure.

[aurora (aurora)]

I love what you have said, Plaid, and you said it SO well!

I, too, wish to give my kids normal childhoods and we are also really enjoying being part of a healthy, family-encouraging church this past year...

[estelles (estelles)]

Good for you, Plaid! Being a mom myself, there is nothing I want to pass on to my children more than their TRUE position in Christ. I fiercely defend this. By God's grace my children WILL know their value and their upbringing will NOT be compromised under the banner of "my ministry of service" within the church. Please do not misunderstand, as an adult I am active within my church (and include my kids in it)... but as a child I had full knowledge that I was not my parents' priority. I don't ever want to repeat that in my own family. I will no longer live under the guilt implication that serving my family is a lesser call. How I lead my life, how I conduct myself, THAT is my call.

Hmmm, people... we may not know each other, but we KNOW each other.

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

sounds like you KNOW me well, estelles....I could not have said it any better.

[plaid (plaid)]

I often think to myself now that my "call" is to raise my children well.

[joyce (joyce)]

Plaid: I know who you are, dear, and you have done so well!!! I'm really proud of the great lady you've become. Your kids are blessed, for sure.

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

Estella, its amazing how so many of us KNOW each other here. So many stories, so many tears. I'm glad to hear you're out of there and found something better. God bless you as you move on. I too moved on years ago and realize more than ever the importance of critical and independant thinking skills over blind belief and obedience to someone ranting from a pulpit. I rejoice when anyone moves on from GGWO. Defininately a step in the right direction and a step to true recovery. I love how Factnet helps that happen. May the exodus from GGWO continue until they really wake up or are no more!!

[estelles (estelles)]

hear hear!

[sidethorn (sidethorn)]

bump