Narnia

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

On a more serious note, I'd encourage everyone to get out and see the Narnia movie this week. King Kong will come out next weekend and totally swamp everything else. Let's help make this movie profitable and continue to send a message about the type of entertainment we want to see.

I saw it tonight. It was fun, and had some very wonderful sequences. Some scenes were very powerful, particularly when Lucy discovers Narnia and when Aslan gives up his life. Not nearly the achievement of The Lord of the Rings, but it does the book justice, and is very clear with the redemptive message. There were some pacing problems to my eye, and some of the battle sequences were drawn out a bit too long, to the detriment of more substantive character development. Only a few real deviations from the book. I'd rate it 7.5 out of 10.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

I plan to go this week...I just love the Chronicles of Narnia...love C.S. Lewis and the way he wrote and thought. Did anyone ever see the movie Shadowlands about his life?
How are you OTP?

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

Saw it on opening night....I give it a 9 out of 10 ( as far as hollywood goes, staying true to the message of the book). I took my 7 year old daughter, who has just started reading the books, and she LOVED it!
I saw Shadowlands too, years ago.

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

9.5

[arron (arron)]

i will not go to narnia . i dont go to movies any way but that one is definatly not christian

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Arron,
I'm not sure if you mean Narnia or not, but I know our church rented the whole movie theatre for next Saturday night so that our congregation could see it. They say that you can not miss the message of Redemption in this Movie. Also in the local paper they are comparing this "type" of movie to the "Passion" and say that Christians should want to support which is what I believe OTP was saying! Arron, I wouls say that since you haven't seen the movie, you must have read the book to give the movie such a report. What in the book led you to believe that this isn't a Christian movie? Thanks have a great Lord's Day,
Merry Christmas. Gone To PA. SAhalom

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Arron,
I hope you don't mind my responding to your post...certainly it is your business to go or not go to a movie...
There is no such thing as a christian movie, or book, or play...those are things...the term Christian can only be applied to a person who is a believer/follower in/of Christ...
We can go anywhere and appreciate creativity because essentially creativity is a sign of God's life...
When I see a flower or a tree I don't turn away wondering if it is a "Christian" flower or tree...
same goes with paintings and photographs and literature...or music...
I observe life with Christ in me...He influences how I see things...I can view things freely for the most part and just enjoy what blesses me without having to cast it as a "christian" or "unchristian" entity...
Christ has brought freedom and unity to my life...things do not intimidate so much now that I am secure in His love and acceptance for me and for all people regardless of where they seem to be at.
Even greek myths do not take away from my faith...the bigger God gets the more I find that nothing can be done against the truth and that famous myths even only reinforce the truth...it all depends on how you look at things.
Again arron, I am not intending to lecture you but just to share my sentiments on this whole idea of avoiding things we think are not "christian."

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

ditto sojourner.

i'm fine. thanks for askinghttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[arron (arron)]

sojourner... not i dont feel bad about youanswering my post that is why they are on here. i live for JESUS nad i avoid all appearance of evil that i can. i do not go to movies and have not gone since i got saved. i do not feel it is good for my testimony as a christain if i go. i still would not read the book narnia or go to movies if i was a movie goer for i feel it is witchcraft.

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

lol.

ridiculous.

hey arron, better stay away from that Jesus guy. you know He hangs out with the publicans and sinners. He also tells stories that have both literal and figurative meanings (kinda like c.s.lewis).

oh yeah, and stay away from paul. you remember how in acts 17 he went to mars hill and, standing before one of the pagan idols that was dedicated "to the unknown god," told them "what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you."

funny how he used the pagan symbol to represent our Father.

i bet arron is the type who won't eat chinese food because it was made by pagans.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Aaron as I said before I don't want to get in a heated debate...OTP might want to do that LOL...

However it saddens me to some extent that you have this view of life and how limited in scope you seem to be..it doesn't sound to me as if you are condemning others who disagree with you which is very crucial not to do...

But aaron, God created this world full of variety, color, sound and beauty...even Paul said that "All things were lawful for him but not all things were expedient."

If in your heart you do not feel comfortable about movies fine, however, the Chronicles of Narnia were among several books that really made me dream in a wonderful way about the love of Christ through godly imagination.

We weren't made to live in a cave...life is full of wonder....Jesus said we needed to be like children before we could even see the kingdom...

In my view, Jesus endorsed the healthy exercise of our imaginations if they brought us into the wonder of faith...and the unseen...

We have permission to dream in color, especially as dear children....aaron, are you really happy in that little corner? Or is it more about fear of doing something that might make you feel separated from God...He wants you to be free and trust the love that flows from His heart to yours and back again...

He is the one who gave us senses...sight, hearing, touching, smelling...intuition...the cross does not mean crucifying these senses but enjoying them fully in our spiritual walk...
Consider the beautiful lilies of the field aaron.

At any rate, here is some interesting commentary from the internet about this film and Lewis himself...

OTP be nice...smile...where is your sense of humor?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif


Christianity Today
With its story of a savior who suffered the consequences for others' sins, and whose power proved greater even than death, this meaningful myth reflects rays of hope into a culture paralyzed by the chill of unbelief, where many really would prefer a winter without a Christmas. Those who respond to the movie's roar by running to Lewis's book will find Deeper Magic in its pages. Meeting them there, Lewis himself will lead them "further up, further in." http://tinyurl.com/dlz45

Christian Answers
A wonderful adventure. An illustrious biblical metaphor. A beautiful Christmas story. A captivating fantasy.... Is this just more Harry Potter? No, it is not, and it is definitely a story for kids (perhaps no younger than 7) * as well as for anyone who is willing to become like a child and enjoy it. Like so many great stories, this one is not about glorifying what is evil, but instead showing the triumph of what is good.

So what is it with this story that believers in Christ are so eager to connect? Is there a deeper meaning? Is the ³deep magic² a reference to something else? Producer Mark Johnson (Rain Man, Avalon, The Rookie, The Notebook) says that so many of them read these books as kids and only thought of it as a good children¹s story. But, Johnson says, C.S. Lewis was obviously a Christian, as well as a Christian writer, and states, ³If you want to find all kinds of Christian symbolism in it, it¹s certainly there.² Without going through the entire movie and interpreting point for point what those parallels are, suffice it to say that significant metaphors resound throughout this story, namely having the faith of a child, the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, as well as His resurrection from the dead, resulting in salvation for sinners.

Is the goal then for making The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe to produce a ³Christian² movie? Perhaps for some, but, as Johnson also points out, C.S. Lewis himself said that his book was not a ³Christian² book. If you are a believer in Christ, you will most likely see the parallels to Jesus and the Gospel, but this movie can certainly be enjoyed by anyone who watches it. http://tinyurl.com/e34zm

Crosswalk.com
C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien... were contemporaries, good friends, and devoted Christians who wanted to influence their world through the arts. http://www.crosswalk.com/fun/movies/1366773.html

Crosswalk.com (again)
The foremost question on everyone¹s mind: will the movie properly portray the underlying Christian themes of the book?

....In a theme as enduring as literature itself, Edmund¹s treachery, and then repentance remain at the core of the story. His redemption by Aslan the Lion, the true ruler of Narnia and the narrative¹s ³Christ-figure,² is perhaps the most intense and effective part of the film. http://www.crosswalk.com/fun/movies/1367416.html


Plugged In Online (from Focus on the Family)
It is in the spiritual realm that The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe displays its greatest positivity. C.S. Lewis intended Aslan to serve as a Christ figure and for the events that surround him to serve as an allegory for Christ's suffering, death and resurrection. This film fully embraces those allusions.

A primer on Narnian allegory: Aslan serves the Emperor Beyond the Sea (God the Father) and yet is also creator of Narnia (compare Colossians 1:16). Even though Aslan clearly has power over the White Witch, he chooses to work through human beings to accomplish his will to free Narnia. And he offers his own innocent blood to pay for Edmund's sin (Romans 5:8). His "Gethsemane" is a forest glade. His "disciples" are Susan and Lucy. As he is led to the Stone Table to be killed, he is mocked and humiliated by the White Witch's evil cohort yet does not protest or fight back (read Isaiah 53:4-7 and the gospel accounts of Christ's scourging and crucifixion). Most important, he rises from the dead and the atonement is complete (Colossians 1:13-14). Aslan tells Edmund's siblings not to bring up their brother's betrayal again: "What's done is done," he explains (Psalm 103:12; 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Hebrews 10:17). As he presents Edmund to the court at the castle Cair Paravel, he calls him "Edmund the Just" (see Romans 5:19).

Christin Ditchfield, author of A Family Guide to Narnia, offers other biblical parallels. "All of Narnia awaits deliverance from the dominion of the White Witch," she writes. "The land itself longs to be free from captivity (Romans 8:19-21). According to the Deep Magic (or law) on which Narnia was founded, Edmund must pay the penalty for his treachery with his life (Romans 6:23 and Hebrews 9:22). Aslan is the only hope for Narnia and for Edmund. It is only Aslan, the one who created Narnia, who can now deliver it from the power of the White Witch (1 John 3:8)."

Also, it should be noted that the White Witch is a usurper and pretender to the throne who has temporary control of Narnia until Aslan returns (Ephesians 2:2). She has magic powers to turn living things to stone and uses a potion to conjure hot chocolate and Turkish delight (an ultra-sweet dessert) for Edmund. Her subtle lies to Edmund are a good illustration of James 1:14-15.

Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien were friends who deeply loved old stories of mythological lands and strange beings, and both wrote from a profoundly Christian worldview. But Lewis' tales are more clearly Christian allegories, or, as he preferred to call them, "supposals." He explained that he wrote his stories by asking this question: "Let us suppose that there were a land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as he became a man in our world, became a lion there, and then imagine what would happen." For his part, Tolkien hated the thought that his books would be considered allegorical at all.
http://www.pluggedinonline.com/movies/movies/a0002447.cfm


World Magazine
Fans of the great lion, King of the Beasts and, to Lewis, King of Kings, will be happy to learn that the lion is strikingly animated and voiced (by Liam Neeson) and ultimately is presented in the film clearly as a Christ figure. However, attentive Narnia readers will notice scriptings that weaken him in relationship to the White Witch, shifting the focus from Aslan's redemptive power to more generic themes of family, leadership, and compassion. Only when we come to several late scenes is the spiritual symbolism of Aslan's sacrifice at the Stone Table made surprisingly (see "The chronicles of making Narnia") explicit.

In an oft-quoted letter to a fifth-grade class in Maryland, Lewis wrote, "You are mistaken when you think that everything in the books 'represents' something in this world. Things do that in The Pilgrim's Progress but . . . I did not say to myself, 'Let us represent Jesus as He really is in our world by a Lion in Narnia': I said, 'Let us suppose that there were a land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as he became a Man in our world, became a Lion there, and then imagine what would happen.'"
http://www.worldmag.com/displayArticle.cfm?ID=11356
About World magazine: http://www.worldmag.com/world_about_us.cfm

(Message edited by admin on December 19, 2005)

[sojourner (sojourner)]

OTP I know you were being funny and not cruel...I just noticed your LOL...
LOL!
If anyone has a stretched imagination I know you do!!
Help Aslan...

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

LEt's not forget-for those who've seen the movie, after Aslan is resurrected he joins the battle and tells Peter, "It is finished" when the battle is over. If that's not an obvious "Christ" response, I don't know what is.
Hey arron-do you eat chocolate? Rice crispies? Do you drive a car? I'm guessing you didn't see "The Passion"? Those things aren't in the bible. I think your world view is legalistic and isn't Christ-like at all. It's too bad...you're missing out on beautiful, redemptive things that can definitely minister and reach people who wouldn't even crack open a bible on thier own.

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

hey sojourner, you sound like someone who can really appreciate art. it makes me sad when so many Christians i meet can't.

the narnia books were some of the first places i really met Christ as a child. i reread them all about a year ago, and found them as rewarding as they were when i was 10. and i found myself just as overcome with tears and joy when i saw the wonderful picture of our Lord the c.s.lewis creates in Aslan.

the world has so much mystery, joy, and surprise in it. i don't understand why people try to sterilize God and His expression. He is totally uncoventional, beyond our limited expectations. art often gives us a way to see beyond those limitations.

we need to pray for a divine, annointed imagination.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

You know what OTP I keep meeting artists...and I think it is no coincidence...
Here is what I believe...we were made for God...our hearts seek after Him....

Do we think He would be pleased after making all of this beautiful creation, that we ignore it and spend our lives memorizing the Bible as beautiful as it is?

If anything I think the Spirit is grieved by all this monochromatic, legalistic mentality...it is not the nature of the God who has set me free and continues to set me free...

When I view a painting by Van Gogh, Renoir, Monet or one of the Dutch masters like Vermeer...see a sculture by Degas...visit the Smithsonian museums, the National Gardens, smell the flowers, the roses especially...oh..on and on it goes...well it takes my breath away, honestly...I am captivated. Art tedtifies to the reality of inspiration and God is at the heart of all inspiration...look at the word HEART...it can be broken down into two smaller words..."He" and "Art" isn't that neat? Just noticed it...art is in our heart.

The narrow mindsets of much of what passes itself off as "God's mind" really frightens me...God is the greatest artist there ever could be. All beauty and creation reflects back to Him.

Well, I just get overwhelmed because art is such a manifestation of the reality of a loving creator.

I do appreciate art, not as a wealthy patron but as a person walking through life aware that every other person bears the stamp of God in their soul, they are made in His image, even if they do not yet know it for themselves.

I agree OTP that sterile, dry church mentality that is all utilitarian and works oriented is not for me...I thank God for the C. S. Lewis's of the world.

In a way, until I return to a fellowship or faith community (if I ever do), artist are like preachers to me on some level.

[arron (arron)]

i am not.. legalistic. i live right
narnia is still witchcraft

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

praise the Father that intelligence isn't a prerequisite for redemption.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

OTP you are bad...I could just hear your frustration...and it's cracking me up...smile...God is still okay so relax...one day we have to grab a coffee...

[sojourner (sojourner)]

I just had the funniest thought... what if aaron is not really the way he writes and it is just an act to pull our chain and see how much reaction he can stir up? That would be a riot if a whole thread turned into a giant argument and whoever aaron is was laughing about it...
are you for real aaron?
I ask with all due respect...more than otp might do...right otp? I have a big smile on my face.

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

LOL looks like the guys over at liquidwaves read my mind....

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2005/12/its-official-narnia-is-witchcraft.html

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

Well, we might say - "Be gone before somebody drops a house on you, too!"

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

can you explain why you say narnia is witchcraft? you don't make any sense. Biblically back it up (with exact references to television and movies- I'd like chapter and verse), as well as your opinion.

Better be careful GTP- I'll bet that Dr. who uses radiation or chemicals to kill that thing growing in you is probably a witch doctor.

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Hey Dina,
Thanks for that encouraging thought. I was wondering what all those shrunken heads were hanging on his belt.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif I just came back, fresh from seeing Narnia since Dina ruined the movie for me. If Narnia is Witchcraft, then so was the 10 Commandments with Charlton Heston. {reason why I believe 10 Commandments were witchcraft) is that the guy Moses, right, like he changes a staff into a snake, right, and then some other guys do the same thing. That movie is packed with Witchcraft and I will never watch it again.
On the other hand, I want to go see Narnia again to see all the allogories again. Movie was
<u><font size="+1">NOT</font></u> Witchcraft. Aaron we must be careful, because I once saw things similiar to you, but not half as strong as you do, but one the flip side I have a friend who thinks Barney ( the kids purple dinosaur) is demonic. Any record that is not Christian in his house he has thrown out and his son nor his daughter are aloud to listen to anything but Christain and evcen that must be approved by him. No television unless supervised. Can't go to a movie or a school dance. Yes sir-ree, he's keeping all that nasty witchcraft and all those demons away from his house.
I don't know about anyone else, I might not like all the music my child listens to, but the Word tells us to "Train up a child in the way they should go, and <u>when they grow old they will not depart from it." </u>To me, that mean's there's some space between chilhood and "when they grwo old" If we micromanage our kids and restrict their every move, we will shove them right into the thing we want them to get away from. Be careful brother Arron, that kind of thinking can get out of hand, under the guise of "better safe then sorry"

Dina, now you really got me thinking. My last doctor visit he was doing some speaking in another language over me and hitting me with some sort of bush, and there was that thing about the headless chicken. Do you think I should be concerned? I thought he was just excercising his right to speak in tongues.LoL
Dina, your a trip! Your bro Tom/aka GTP

[jayso (jayso)]

I understand where Arron is coming from. For one, we as Christians have the Bible which is (or should be) the only authoritative source by which we learn of the Gospel of Christ. Christ's birth, sinless life, crucifixion and resurrection from the dead. God's plan of redemption is given clearly in the pages of the HOLY BIBLE.

TLTWaTW is not a "Pilgrim's Progress"; whose allegory was entirely based on conspicuous New Testament scripture and blatantly overt Christian principles.

CS Lewis may have been a Christian, but apart from the Bible, there is no "other Gospel" (for those who are Bible Believing Christians). Books and films having "Christian overtones" may lead some down a slippery slope of listening to "another Gospel".

For those who choose to support the Hollywood film industry... well, it's a "free country" and we are allowed to spend our money (God's provision) on such entertainment.

I don't believe Arron condemns anyone for supporting Hollywood. I don't judge or condemn anyone who decides to be entertained in whatever manner one chooses. That is between them and God. Romans 14 just may apply to the issue of movies! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif Meat or vegetables?

Please read this article which states various reasons why Christians should not support Hollywood. Please read it with an open mind and consider that this is TRULY the conviction some Christians have regarding going to movies and supporting Hollywood's film industry.

http://members.aol.com/totallyteensclub/page6.html

Please read Romans 14 before using the "L Word" (legalistic) to Arron for his not going to the cinema. We all have individual moral standards as Christians. This may explain one reason why there are so many Christian denominations. So, will it be meat or vegetables?

[sojourner (sojourner)]

The reasons not to support Hollywood or having that conviction is a totally separate issue from views on art and creativity.

This is how discussions get derailed...which is just what happens here...if a person chooses not to ever support Hollywood that is their decision but to call a movie withchcraft is another issue entirely...Narnia has never been viewed as a replacement Gospel, nor was it intended to be such...it is a beautiful, lovely, enchanting journey for our God-given, God-blessed imaginations.

Personally, I feel disobedient to the faith when I live in fear of reading literature, or seeing a movie...I sense God's pleasure when I operate in the freedom He has given to me...It's like reading something with Jesus in my heart as the editor in chief...highlighting the good stuff and just ignoring the other...but never do I think something is going to "take over my soul" or "pitch me down into hell". Of course I am not drawn to lewd material or dark humor or any of that stuff...but even so...

Christians for centuries have had to endure the most despicable forms of evil designed for one purpose, to kill and destroy their freedom to worship...

There are young girls in India involved in temple prostitution, they don't have the "luxury" of changing the channel...I know of women who went and just shared the love of God with them...nothing about these girls lives was chosen by them and their terrible poverty may mean they won't get out...

What is the more important priority for God...getting them out or getting Himself into their lives so no matter what, they know He is real and not the author of what man has subjected them to. So that if they died in that place they would not die comfortless.

Perhaps in that place of being held dear in God's sight, a way of escape will happen as a result of the girls relationship with her God before anything about her life changes outwardly.

The kind of faith that really believes, NOTHING, Not one thing, can separate us from God, His love, nor His deep concern for us. Faith pleases God...if you avoid movies and art out of faith, fine...but if it is out of some idea of it being taboo in God's mind...and results in labeling the creativity of millions of people as witchcraft...well then I have to wonder. "Does that please God?" Really?

"This is the work of God, believe in the one that God has sent."

God has made things easy at great cost to Himself, not in things but in heart, but we run around an make things all complicated again.
Those are not my words.

The difficult thing here is so often people say,
"Well, I love the Bible so my opinion is right."
That doesn't fly with me. It doesn't mean they are wrong...I just think for myself.
Personally, I just think we focus so uneccessarily on certain things and create our own little index of general taboos that is more a matter of individual choice.
How powerful is God anyway?

By the way, not supporting Hollywood is fine, but if you are going to carry that purist, only support good morality line out, you might need to starve or never pay taxes and go to prision...if you really want to claim you have those convictions.

[luvliberty (luvliberty)]

ok... I do not agree with aaron's stance about not watching narnia and the other stuff however, i have to admire that he is not splitting hairs and trying to differentiate between the magic (considered evil) of harry Potter and the magic (considered good?) of Narnia. at least he is trying to see all magic in the context of his beliefs. Magic is magic wheter it is cleverly disguised or not...so if a person determines not to watch shows containing magic wouldn't this mean all shows with it?i do not think Jesus explanation for his miracles and resurrection was some reference to magic as Aslan does in Narnia.

Just for the record, those shows do not bother me... I love all fantasy fictions.... but cannot fault aaron for having a conscience that prevents him from watching any shows that have a premise of magic.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Aaron, bless him, has never been condemning in anyway...I however do not consider dialogue and trying to reach understanding about the meaning of words in a certain context to be "hair splitting"...you may not be implying that luvliberty...I do not assume you did.

Look at that wonderful word "love".

People can use the word love in many ways.
But what do they mean...?

I tried to share the gospel with a prostitute who was being shadowed by her "man"...he was angry that I was intefering with his "income"...she listened to me and then backed away when he came closer...(later he assaulted me by pouring his big gulp over my head, I thanked him, even though I was ticked off since my coat had just been cleaned, he ran away from me convinced I was insane...I think he had discernment.)
But before it came to that comical end...
I asked the girl "Are you his slave?"; since she was backing away from me for fear of him.

She knew he was listening and stuck out her chin and said..."That's right...I'm his love slave!!"

So do I walk away and say..."Oh she loves him, love is a good thing....as long as she loves him she can turn tricks for him..."

Or do I in the name of the Love I know, stay around and "split a few hairs" with her on the meaning of love...

I wound up telling her that God wanted her to be "His love slave" and God wouldn't pimp her out to buy big gulps...(something to that effect)...
Anyway, if it made her think a little about her ideas of love...that is enough. You can't force people to see what you see, just tell it.

For CS Lewis perhaps the use of the word magic was intentionally used so as to create no misunderstanding that this was not akin to miracles as we see in the Bible...but something imagined, like a miracle...so in effect he was holding the scriptures to be far more sacred by deferring his characters actions to "magic".
In other words his use of the term magic was to keep his fiction from being placed on a level with the scriptures...why are we so quick to think evil about the premise of these things based on one word...what about meaning. Does that matter to God at all?

The concept of magic in these books is no where near the same thing as witchcraft...it is the source of the inspiration that matters to me...
C.S. Lewis loved our Lord...I respect what his encounter of faith produced.

I would never, ever fault aaron or anyone for their conscience! Never, but, I do not consider dialogue contentious if it explores the meaning of words...especially if arguments are being made for and against something so broad and sweeping.

By the way, I gotta "love liberty"...smile.

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
I am caused to think of the verse that says to us,"it's not that which goes into a man that causes him to be defiled,it is that which comes out from him."

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

Though these verses are connected with the eating of meat,it is evident that there is an allegory because of the following verses pertaining to corruption in the heart.

If I read that some guy murdered another person,it has no effect on my person unless I entertain the thoughts to the point of obsession and carry them out.

Aaron is right to follow the path he is led by the Holy Spirit.Others may be led differently because of individual callings.

I like fiction myself and find the Chronicles of Narnia to be very entertaining.There is much of goodness and christian principles woven throughout these books.
It is an individual choice though and should be respected as such.

I like Terry Brooks novels the Shannara series too.There is nothing of Christianity in them but they are imaginative and interesting.

Remember,it was imagination that has brought us this technology.

Blessing to all,
Dave


</font>}

[luvliberty (luvliberty)]

sojourner,
thanks for your diplomatic way of disagreeing with what i said.... i value your comments.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

I value your thoughts and ideas as well luvliberty, My post wasn't about disagreeing as much as it was about clarifying intention...aaron has never been condemning and of course I respect his conscience and freedom to worship and serve God according to his convictions...

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

amen to that sojo. If I came across as rude to arron, i apologize. i'm still confused about arron's viewpoint, but i can shut up and let God be Who He is to arron. such beautifu Grace :-)

p.s. does this mean we can't go to Disneyland?!?! I mean, it IS the 'Magic Kingdom'.

[jayso (jayso)]

A lot of good points are being made here. I think it's a bit extreme to imply that one who wishes not to partake of and deliberately contribute to Hollywood's movie industry is akin to starving, not paying taxes and / or going to prison. The "purist" attitude is a matter of individual conviction. I can't help but believe the "movie issue" is a Romans 14 issue and nothing more.

How we choose to be entertained is up to each one of us. Personally, I never liked fantasy/fiction. I enjoy non fiction. Books on language, geography and sociology appeal to me. CS Lewis doesn't. So what? On TV, I watch the cable news, Discovery Health, TLC, Current.tv, IFC, Travel Channel and Food Channel.

I have been to cinema as a Christian. I choose the independent films (there's a great underground theatre in Ithaca, NY) like "Supersize Me", "Fahrenheit 911", "Bowling for Columbine", "Bad Education" and other indies. Kinsey: Lots of sex talk, but still biographical non fiction(ish) did not cause me to "stumble", but I can see it might cause someone who is weaker to stumble in their faith. This is why I really believe Romans 14 is relevant to this issue.

Some of what we watch on TV and in movies is definitely not edifying. It is up to each of us to decide what is edifying and what is not. We are not "under the law", but we are subject to Christ's "royal law of Love" which appeals to us in His words: "If you love Me, Keep My commandments." and "My sheep hear My voice". John 14:15 &amp; 15:10; John 10:16 &amp; 10:27.

"Everything is Permissible, but not everything is beneficial, everything is permissible, but not everything is constructive." 1 Corinthians 10:23

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Hi Jay,
I agree! It is extreme to imply that one who wishes not to partake of and deliberately contribute to Hollywood's movie industry is a akin to starving, not paying taxes and / or going to prision.
Certainly that is no where near the meaning of what I posted.
However the arguement some use that 'they do not support Hollywood and therefore do not go to movies' if carried over to other industries would imply that they recognize the compromise that takes place in these areas as well...Some food brands are made by Hollywood celebrities and so on...
Taxes for examples...taxes pay for programs that embrace many of the "lifestyles" portrayed in Hollywood...taxes fund abortions for some...or government funded sex education.
But if you don't pay your taxes you could go to jail.

The point I was making was about consistency in reasoning and substance...was that point lost here?

I would defend aaron's right to his convictions anyday or time of the week, but the issue of "movies being sinful" in general and the specific opinion that "Narnia is magic" is obviously an interesting one to many.

Jay my words did not say what you summed them up as meaning...I am a bit surprised at your implcations but not offended in the least.

And, I think Romans 14 is very vital to the conversation as well as 1 Corinthians 10:23.
If I had a friend who couldn't see a movie with a clear conscience, I would not violate that for any reason. But if they were struggling with guilt and fear in general, I would want to pray and help them be relieved of fear somehow...
That's all.

[plaid (plaid)]

Jayso, I am a huge Almodovar fan and was so disapointed that "Bad Education" did not play in theaters near me! I finally got it on DVD from Netflix, which is pretty much why I use Netflix - I can get foreign films with ease http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

As far as the Narnia stuff, I"m looking forward to seeing the movie, just because I liked the books as a child and will enjoy sharing it with my kids. I'm not looking for any salvation message, though I know C.S. Lewis is considered one of the great religious writers of the past century. He also wrote these great kid's books, classics for all time.

But my judgement is of course, suspect, I also love Harry Potter and all kinds of SF/Fantasy http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Hey WEENA,
Stop frontin; You aren't aloud in Disneyland from your last episode. Who do you think your foolin? Not us. What happened anyway. I heard Goofy filed charges you brute! LoL. Oh yea, that's Dina to you punk. Got cha!

Couldn't resist since you saw fit to put me on ignore as of late. {see my last above post} You really hurt my feelings. You know how sensitive I can be at times. LoL..LoL...LoLhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif Laughing so hard I'm crying. I think Dave is wearing off on me. Yes mommy, i will seek professional help, really I will. GTP LoL

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

I'm not ignoring you- I love you SPECIAL!
By the way, no one was supposed to know about that whole 'Goofy" thing :-)
Actually GTP, I loved your last post (before this one). Glad I could ruin the movie for you....what the shlock do you mean by that?! I say one line in the movie and the whole two hours is ruined?! GEESH!!
Only kidding...
You really are a sweet guy...your heart does show through. I'll take it easy on ya, k? Thanks for being a friend. YES, I AM 30 years old! I use my young looks to fool people...must be why I can't get likkered up in public.
Anywho- I would never ignore you....quit being a whinebag and be secure in my love...see me, see you! GOTCHA!!

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Dina,
Do you have to brag about how young you are?
Tom's "old buddy" speaking here.
Gee I walk at the cemetary every day, maybe I should be making an appointment!
Just thirty years young....I wish..

[jayso (jayso)]

Hello Pat,

I fully understood what you meant by how the "purist attitude" can lead one to extremes of shunning practically all aspects of modern life. Anyone who takes this attitude to its extreme would indeed not purchase anything from the unsaved society. Modern Christians would go berserk deciding what to buy and what to boycott. What a bondage that would be. We would be a bunch of lunatics... and very "peculiar people". LOL}

Just for the fact that we are participating in an online forum indicates that nobody here takes an extreme view of puritanism. After all, we all bought or use computers and we know how much porno and filth is on the net!

Hats off to the Amish Christians who seem to really live by the purist attitude. Modern Christians in America could never live out extreme holiness to the point that we would not purchase anything which could contribute to the decadence of society. Having said that, I don't believe we should support drug dealers and thieves by purchasing "hot" items, etc. We are stewards of God's money and we should seek to spend it on worthy causes which may help spread the Gospel.

We all have to buy gasoline and most of us buy stuff made in China. Some of the profits from gasoline, no doubt goes to anti-Christian, anti-American Moslem extremists. Money we spend on Chinese goods go to help spread atheistic communism and cruel child labor in China.

We are truly IN the world, but not OF the world. It is a challenge to do right in this culture of greed we find ourselves in today.

We are the light of the world and the salt of the earth (in Christ). Let us walk as children of light and eschew the darkness by being obedient to His leading. With God's Holy Spirit within us, we are able to hear His still small voice saying "This is the way, walk ye in it".

We can all learn something from folks like Arron. I don't believe he is legalistic at all. Remember CHS used to throw around the term "hyperspiritual"? He would mock those who lived Colossians 3:1 to the fullest. We have heard it said "Don't be so heavenly minded that you are no earthly good!". Conversely, we should also say, "Don't be so earthly minded that you are no heavenly good. May God help us to achieve the balance! Amen.

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

Jayso-
Why even involve 'us' in the balance anyway? Maybe instead of focusing so much on what we do or can acheive for God, because of God, we should let go of our supposed control and God will BE the balance. I don't want His help for me to achieve it, I want to let go and make room for it to be His work alone.
Patricia, Tom kept ribbing me about how I look like a teenager cause he's seen a few blurry pics (in person you can see the wrinkles). I'm having to defend my amazingness by backing it up with a little bit of age (wink wink).
Good Lord,I love you guys!!!

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Dina, If there is one thing you are it is amazing..and adorable wrinkles or not...
Have you seen our Mr. Tom?
If I get rich and famous and need a body guard he is on my list...the man is a wall! Right Tom?
He's a big pushover...oh, oh, gonna be mad I let it out of the bag...
Love you too, Dinaweena
Patricia

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

Thanks Particia- I feel the same way about you :-)
I haven't seen Mr. Tom but I can imagine he's a pretty fomidable presence if he wants to be. IT's ok....he though I was some kind of amazon woman with large tattoos, missing teeth, and a bad perm. I had to straighten him out.

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

WOW DINA,
I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT ONE. YOU STRAIGHTENED ME OUT YOU SAY? MMMMMM SOUNDS VERY SUSPICIOUS. SOJO OLE BUDDY OLE PAL, DON'T FEAR ONE DAY YOUR KNIGHT IN SHING ARMOR WILL COME WHEELING BY AND ASK YOU FOR A PUSH AND A DEPENDS AND ALL YOUR TROUBLES WILL BE OVER! lol WWWEEEEEEEE.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif YOU BOTH MADE MY DAY. LOVE YA TOM
DINA, THE LAST TIME SOMEONE TOLD ME THEY LOVED ME SPECIAL, I WAS LIVING IN TEXAS AND IT WAS THIS REAL BIG GUY WITH A CHAIN SAW. lOl

(Message edited by Gone to PA on December 14, 2005)

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

You mean I didn't straighten you out? You STILL think I'm a BIG woman with commando shoulders and a mullet? C'mon now!
About the 'loving you special' thing...what are you trying to say? You sayin' I'm some skin-masked psycho? Well, you know better...by the way, I did what you asked and am waiting for a response. I'll forward them to you if I get any, k?

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

WANT SOME CHEESE WITH THAT WHINE? SEE ME SEE YOU,
GOT CHA LOL YOU SHOULD HAVE SOME PICS AND THANKS FOR DOING THAT. IF NOT I WILL ASK THAT PERSON IF WE CAN SAY WHO THEY ARE AND MAYBE GET A RESPONSE. GTP GOING GOING GONE...SHALOM TOM

[sojourner (sojourner)]

So Tom,
Are you telling me in my old age I will meet some old guy just in time to take him to the doctors for prostate examinations...maybe I could be a golddigger and land a rich one.
I have to send you a picture so you will see what a catch I am...of course it will be professionally airbrushed...no wrinkles.
going, going, gone...to Narnia

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

PATRICIA,
FIRST LET ME SAY THAT ALL WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL TO ME. THAT'S MY HUMBLE OPINION. GOD CREATED US ALL AND HE DON'T MAKE NO MISTAKES. I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT WAS BUT SOMEWHERE I READ THAT WE WERE CREATED IN "HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS" NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL BEAUTIFUL. SHALOM TOM

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

Patricia- If you send him one you'd better send me one!!!

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Will do...I have to borrow my sister's wedding album...those are the most recent...it may not be until next week..well we really busted up this thread didn't we?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

yep....ooops!
I love the books and I enjoyed the movie. I love sci-fi (Orson Scott Card is a favorite)...I just love to read...I don't really care if anyone likes what I like or not. AS far as C.S. Lewis is concerned, has anyone read "mere christianity"? There's no doubt in my mind where that man was coming from. He crosses no inappropriate boundaries with spells or magic, he does not validate any evils but instead reinforces the beauty, gentleness, and grace of the benevolent character Aslan. My 6 year old has started to read the books and I'm glad. The Father gave us our minds and imaginations, our creativity and our individuality...I, for one, am glad to help my children foster thier appreciation for finding Him in it all :-)

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

I AGREE TOTALLY,

I'M TAKING MY 6 YEAR OLD TO SEE IT THIS WEEKEND. HOW MUCH WAS THE BOOK? HEY DINA, I GET MY PICTURE FIRST, SOJO PROMISED!! SO THERE LOL, HEY, WHY CAN'T I GET MY SMILET GUY TO SMILE? EVERYTIME I PRESS IT, IT SAYS TO INSERT A CLIPART IMAGE. WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? TOM

SOJO,
BREAK OUT THE MEMORIES, I'M WAITING!!!LOL

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Now isn't this just over the top?
My sister just this morning,brought me some pics of myself that span some of my teen and preteen years.

There was a couple that had some old childhood friends in them.1966 to about 1975.

There is no such thing as coincidence.
God is just way too real for that.

I've got a pic I wish I could show you folks.I know it would blow your minds.
It's part of the face of a cat We had years ago.
I cut it off halfway because he moved when i snapped the shot.

I took it as the last picture in the camera,just to get the rest developed.
If you turn it upside down,it looks like a chinchila long eared rabbit,playing around like a cat would.
Just two years ago,I got the idea to put it 90% angle under a mirror.
When you move it around to gain perspectives,
it is like a surrealistic photo (like Dali) and there are many faces of animals and an alien a few birds a frog and other ones as well.

It's to me,like a gift from the Lord.He knows I like comedy and this had 4 of us looking at it for over an hour.

No joke either,I bet I could make a vidio and send it in to AFHV and win something with it.
I'll have to get a scanner I guess.
but that's another subject now isn't it?
LOL
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif
God could tell you a joke that was so funny,
you would die laughing.
Dave


</font>}

[kupski (kupski)]

I went and seen the movie and was brought to nearly to tears several times....I thought it was a great movie about Christ !

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

We just came back from seeing Narnia. I liked it a lot. There were a few things where Hollywood did their creative license thing. This Narnia was way jazzier than the BBC version with all the computer graphics.

[lmbles (lmbles)]

I know it's probably too late to join into the conversation, but certainly not too late to glean from it. I appreciate reading all the different perspectives, as I've had similar thoughts and conversations with people. The whole area of Christian liberty can be a tough one, especially concerning the arts. I am thankful for your since communication on the matter. There's much I could say, but I think you all covered it pretty well.

For the record, I just recently read the books and was very touched. I finally saw the movie and thought it was incredibly powerful and well made.

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
I'd like to see the Shanara series by Terry Brooks put into movie form.
I love fiction.There isn't a thing wrong with it.

Imagination is a muscle that needs excercise too.

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Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in the heaven, for after this manner did their fathers act toward the prophets.