Feelings

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Thank you Dory for posting this..

So many exiting are choosing not to feel, so many that remain in and enable the corruption are choosing not to feel their sin and the effects of it.. GG taught NOT to feel.. and it cut us out of a subjective relationship with our God!

We need to feel so we can deal!

[yogi (yogi)]

Beautiful posts ladies!

Yogi

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Jesus was emotional in His days here.

[wonderer (wonderer)]

My emotion life is healed in GG, because the teaching of p. CS. He taught that our convictions are not based upon our feelings, but on Biblical doctrine. Healthy emotions are blessings of life.(Rom. 15:12 etc)

If we try to numb our healthy feelings then we deviate God's purpose, and our life will be zombie-life.

[yogi (yogi)]

"...because the teaching of p. CS..."

No, because of Jesus Christ's work at Calvary NOT some old man in a bad wig!Your name suits you, but you need a slight variation; "No Wonder"

Yogi

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Dear Wonderer,

I believe you when you say your emotions have been healed. I am inclined to think it was from your walk with the Holy Spirit that did the healing. Unfortunately your pastor has been teaching under the influence of opiates for a long time. Also friend, not one pastor or leader believes that your pastor's version of bible doctrine is correct. In a couple of weeks GG pastors from around the world will be meeting here for this very reason. The pastors know GGWO is in a huge crisis because of the false doctrines taught. You based your convictions on the false doctrines of Pastor Stevens. It is the underlining problem of why GGWO is in crisis now. You are part of a church that has a faulty church government, it honored a man before God. A church where the one pastor/teacher has no accountability. He has failed you and led you away from true Christianity. He has failed everyone, and yet the leaders cannot remove him because of the faulty system would crumble if they handled biblically. Your leaders are aware of this.

It is necessary also to experience ALL the emotions, Wonderer, not just the healthy ones. It is a faulty teaching to believe only good emotions are healthy. Think about it.. it silenced us. No anger or complaining, no discontent could be voiced or one would be considered unspiritual, hindering the work. A negative thought could be cast down as something coming out of your emotions. These twisted doctrines served the leadership and not you and certainly not Christ. It kept you in the pew. If you are still attending GGWO then the twisted truth worked because it is only when leaving GG to do realize what good teaching is. Don't go tonight. Pray and listen and then pray and listen some more. The Holy Spirit is trying to get your attention.

You came to FACTNet for a reason...

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

Wonderer

It is when we try to numb ANY emotions that we become zombie-like.

Emotions are not evil. Emotions are NORMAL for human beings.

It is how one ACTS in response to one's emotions which holds the potential for good or evil.

[wonderer (wonderer)]

Deat Jeannie,

Thanks for your answer and 'clarification'.

What is happening in GGWO in Baltimore is not a big issue in God's plan. P. CS is not at all the first great or amazing pastor of God, who is coming old, and in conregation is going on what is said in Luke 22:31.
Many of those who has written under these pages are very hurted, angry, sick, bitter etc people. Propably many for good and real reason, but very many because their wrong attitude while staying in GGWO, and trying to get a place in sunshine. Pastor or pastors have recognized that wrong attitude/immaturity, then loved them, but let them grow before giving them more responsibility. Often the flesh does not like to die, and now is happening just that, against what p. CS had preached. This is one line, but of course there are others.

In preaching pastors responsibility is to preach from the Bible, from cover to cover- against all sins, and of all mercy, greace and truth etc.
P. CS has done that very very well. What he has tought, and what other people (esp. fly-group in Baltimore), and even pastors has done is totally different business.

For me p. CS's teaching (=of course HS through his teaching [because of yogi])has been the best, and most exact whatever heard.

Some basic principle teachings.

P. CS has tought, that pastors cannot touch people's privacy (=right Biblical doctrine).
If some has tried, then God will handle them, but they have behaved against teaching.
That is one basic healthy principal against cults.

Another principal against cultic behaviour.
Pastor or anybody cannot dismiss you or anybody from the church, because only person him/herself can say if he/she belongs or not in GGWO-church.
Pastors or team leaders can and may define, who belong to their team, but they cannot dismiss anybody from the church.

Third basic principle against cultic behaviour.
If a person is hurted by someone who is responsiple in the ministry or he/she has suggestions he/she ought to go in lone,in meekness to the one who is responsible and discuss of the subject. If that one does not listen, then go to next under the table of organisation and so on.

Just now I don't have time to continue, and maybe there is not much use in it.

About feelings I just want to comment, that I didn't say that good emotions are healthy. I said healthy emotions-including ALL healthy emotions. There are healthy and unhealthy 'negative' emotions, don't confuse them. Actually I think, that many of here in these pages are so emotionally unhealthy that you easily misunderstand basics. Not meaning to heart.

I pray for the situation in GGWO, but God is greater and everything is in control.

[minutus (minutus)]

Probably the main reason for the existence of FACTNet is that Carl Stevens does not practice what he teaches. God calls that hypocrisy and judges it severely.

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Dave; God has bigger reasons for factnet. You can hear the beginning of the rumblings. GGWO is small potatows. Just wanted to make Dan Qwayle feel better. God wants the whole potatah. All creation is His.

[isabella (isabella)]

Bob,
That was great.

Does anyone know, how is Roberta?

Roberta, we are all praying for you...get well and come back here!

Isabella

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

When last I heard (late afternoon), Roberta was hanging in there. She had not gotten worse; therefore, she had not been hospitalised. She had a little success with liquids and her fever was down *very* slightly. I will update you as I become aware. Your prayers are appreciated. Thanks.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Wonderer,
I read and re-read your post and my heart goes out to you. You are being lied to and deceived by the very elders and CHS that you glorified in your posting.

Many of the doctrines that Carl Stevens has been teaching have been proven to be false scripturally. Get on your knees and go to God!! Go to Him in prayer and ask Him to show you what is the truth. He will speak to your heart. Then pray and ask the Lord to show you in the scriptures whether or not the pastor is to represent you at the Bema Seat. Ask the Holy Spirit to prove it to you in the scriptures. Then ask them about the the teaching on the "one-Pastor/teacher." Ask the Holy Spirit about delegated authority and where it is WRONG. Start there.

I just want your head to come down out of the same clouds I had mine in for so long too. However the difference between us is that I never worshipped a man. You have put Pastor Stevens on a pedestal equal with God. God is a jealous God. He will not share that pedestal with anyone and he will make your idol (Stevens) fall at your feet.

Jeannie was right with everything she told you. Your pastor has been abusing drugs for the last few years. Don't feel sorry for him, he chooses not to step down and get the medical help he needs. The dementia he has from the drugs could be reversed, it is still in its early stages. Carl Stevens wouldn't let his son Paul help him to get the help he needed and Paul paid a price for it.

Like Jeannie said, there is a reason why you came on Factnet. The Holy Spirit has lead you here.
Read the posts and pray and ask Him why all these people from all over the USA who most DON"T know each other are saying the same things about your church? Ask God why. Ask Him to show you what truly is going on. Then hang on because your wake up call is going to be very upsetting.

We are here for you Wonderer when that happens. None of us want/need any apologies from anyone searching for the truth. When things "hit the fan" in your life, come back here on Factnet. We will help you process your exit from GGWO. Don't try to do it on your own. You need the support.

Maria

You are being lied to.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Jeannie - GREAT post.

Wonderer - you a correct that CHS taught many good things, and I will continue to cheerish those. However, as minutus said he did not live a whole lot of what he preached. Also, he consistantly preached people would die or get cancer of the tongue or some other such thing if the left GGWO and "talked." Also, if you left you would lose every reward you ever got. These are very controlling teachings, and control they did. He continued to use gossip to control people and draw them into his "inner circle." Often people simply made up "gossip" to impress him, and without "checking his sources" (weren't we told too do that?) he would propagate it.

Often though his doctrine was totally flawed! One of his more recent "slaps" in Jesus' face was that Jesus would come out from the Bema seat with believers who did not do enough and announce to all of heaven "loser!" I still sting for the raking over the coals D. Lewis gave me for speaking against that one.

But God bless you "wonderer," please keep wonderiing, but as Jeannie referred to, please wonder in the Holy Spirit. Discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit, you have it, USE IT.

Bob - would you drop me an EMail? <lifeafterggwotbs@yahoo.com>

God bless,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[jeannie (jeannie)]

I agree Ralph, My husband and I talked to Bill Reed for quite awhile at a recent wedding. He is a man seeking answers just like us. He wears a mark, just like us.

I think this goes back to my earlier post. This is tangled mess and we do not know where any individual leader will progress through this process. I choose to be inclusive and gracious to anyone I find on the exit ramp sorting this out. God and time will reveal the wheat from the tares. There are many many leaders just like us, drawn into this ministry because of love and fervency for Jesus Christ. They were not part of the inner circle and did not have a voice or participate in the current mess. It is a long road out of TBS/GGWO. Some may practice abusive behavior themselves, some may change and some may not. I will extend patience and kindness to them as they travel that road. God is in control, not me or anyone else. The results are in His hands. In the meantime, many are struggling with effects of shattered lives after years in this ministry, they need our help and they are my focus. There is a flow to this process and I sense for me that exposure of wrongdoing and the abusive nature of this system has been revealed. We can know the system, but we are mere humans and cannot know an individual's heart. For me, It is time to focus on the supporting the individuals hurting. God is doing a fine job of converging events, circumstances to take care of the rest of it.

[maria_t (maria_t)]

Thanks, Jeannie, nicely put and words taken to heart and under advisement...

love you
Maria

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

"many are struggling with effects of shattered lives after years in this ministry, they need our help and they are my focus. There is a flow to this process and I sense for me that exposure of wrongdoing and the abusive nature of this system has been revealed. We can know the system, but we are mere humans and cannot know an individual's heart. For me, It is time to focus on the supporting the individuals hurting. God is doing a fine job of converging events, circumstances to take care of the rest of it."

EXACTLY. THIS is where the energies and focus needs to be now, and as the days move toward that time when more and more people walk away looking dazed and confused, we need to be ready for them.

The first days are like a fog that one simply cannot believe they are in...there seems no way out, no clear choices, no emotion other than fear.
As one emerges from the fog....the realizations come like bombarding bullets, relentlessly causing pain after new pain until you are sure you just can't take one nore...and one more comes.

The bleeding out...realizing that you've been used, lied to, just an unimportant number for someone else to gloat over...you're sure the life you knew is over and you have no isdes how to go on.

All at once you're ****ed off. More furious than you ever thought possible. How dare they? You hate them, you want to make them pay, you look around and see how much they took and how much of your life you gave them....and again the anger turns to blood tears.

But somewhere from a distance you can hear someone say.."I understand,. it happened to me, too. Can I help?"

Then God's true order of fellowship, healing and restoration to himself begins. It is when we reach out with hands that care, with ears that will listeen and offer the spiritual balm and assistance needed...THEN does there come the hope for the wounded.

It is hope for the wounded that is now the major focus and that is as it should be. None of us are perfect, but God is all about helping the abused, downtrodden and needy.

And who has been more abused, more downtrodden and is more needy right now than our brothers and sister in Christ who have lost everything for a false prophet?

Brava Jeannie. Let's keep this focus sharp in our hearts, we must not stray from this course. Among us are many who have gifts of healing, gifts of counseling, trained men and women who can help set guidlines, set the tone, bring the captives out into safety, into the light of love and restoration and onto the road to spiritual healing.

You know I am on the team if you can use me.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

A hearty amen!! Roberta. My sentiments (oops, is it okay to have sentiments? lol) entirely.

God bless you, praying for your health.

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Thanks Ralph, I need all the prayers I can get! I am NOT a good patient...what old nurse ever is...but I think it's time to crawl back into bed as I am really over the limit here.

Let me take this opportunity to tell everyone thank you so much for your prayers. I wasn'tin very good shape and still have a ways to go, but I am convinced you folks kept me out of the dreadded hospital.

We squabble like a family, we care like a family and pray for each other like a family...that can only be a good thing.

Wuill check in later unless my husband the warden decides otherwise...*s*

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Aha, Roberta, that is why I like you, you were a nurse. So you will know what I do, I am a BMET. And I absolutely love supporting the nursing staff. Of course, where I am working, we have some of the absolute best nurses in the world. :~)

God bless you,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

Wow - Just reminded that no body can hear until they will hear. This is NOT an accusation...but many of us who were "faithful" and in the inner circle (gag) had tiny threads of the truth get through the mind-barriers of supposed faithfulness and yet it took months and sometimes years before our ears were opened wide enough to truly hear -- you know, hear so clearly that your mind could no longer deny the doubts. Until that happens - well, it's really not possible for those ears to be opened. And I'm NOT saying that the truth should not be told...at any moment SOMEONE's ears might be ready to hear and it will make a difference.

SO glad that I finally let my God-given ability to think and process function as Creation intended!! Certainly NOT said in pride...I wish it hadn't taken me so long, but damn it, I was FAITHFULLLLLLLLLL!

[wonderer (wonderer)]

When Jesus came to Jerusalem week before crucifixion all the people were welcoming Him eagerly. Six days later all the same people shouted let Him be crucified. When Jesus was beaten, bleeding, and finally hanging dead on the cross, there was not many who believed, that this man was The Almighty God.

When science has unquestionably confirmed, that in the Bible there are thousands of mistakes and contradictions, who clairly thinking men really believe, that the Bible is unfallible Word of God.

When a great servant of the Lord, who has preached the Finished Work message year after year, so that thousands of people are saved, pastor who has loved people, tought them from the Bible doctrine after doctrine - in grace, and love, - is coming old, sick, dementied, and irritated is now dispised, hated and accused, not many believed, that this man is holy man, (because he is saved by grace). Isn't there anything familiar!

This man and this ministry has shown, and taught so much grace upon grace in his lifetime, that even I have seen hundreds of peoples lives dramatic positive changes.
Now many of those who have written here, hurted, offended people have a great opportunaty to grow themselves in mercy and grace.
Most of you are looking or even shouting for justice, but at the same time you miss to grow in grace. By doing this you miss to learn to GIVE GRACE.

Some of his basic unticultic teachings.
This man himself, pCS is a sinner saved by grace by faith through the blood of Jesus Christ, as anybody who believes JC as his/her personal savior.

In heaven there are no GG-believers, there are only sinners saved by grace.

His doctrines eg of salvation, justification, and sanctification are totally biblical and agreed very widely by academic christian authorities.

For maria I just recomend to read some biblical commentary, where you can easily find doctrines of delegated authority (Hp. 13:17) and one pastor/teacher (Eph. 4:11).

Pastor's role in the bema seat judgement (Hp 13:17) is more a one sort visualized application, than a strict absolute doctrine.

In my attitude no man has not ever been in the place of God -far from that. I don't glorify or worship any man, but I respect many man's or women's work or character etc, and I can say it.

Just now through these situations in GGWO in Baltimore, God Himself rises new leadership, who and which is so humble, wise and tough, that GGWO can go on to new great victories. Stand still and wait Him!

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

Oh Wow! ??????????????????????????????????

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Wonderer,

After the last couple posts I am wondering if you are "real" person. Maybe your name should be Wanderer rather than Wonderer as you write about Baltimore from an Amsterdam IP number..

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Roberta; I've been missing you and have been in prayer. Know that you are treasured and we don't want to lose you.

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Alanna; (are there two n's or one?) I have a desire to sit down to a beer with you and Bobby somewhere. Come down here if you feel so inclined. Just a thought.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Berta,

AB keeps me updated; emails and prayers were flying before anyone even posted about your acute condition. You have much courage dear lady and you are very loved by this little community.

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

BB - 2

Where are you (guess I should remember from earlier posts -- but I don't--!)? Bob's out but I'll extend your invitation!

BTW, I guess I'm a little dense, but can you explain what "Wonder" was trying to say a couple of posts up??

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Not sure, I am having difficulty with my "visualizing applicationing"

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Thanks Jeannie. Thanks Bob. Thanks to everybody. means a lot.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

BTW wonderer is a plant/troll

gag me with an entire place setting, ok?

*shudder*

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

RJ - Is he/she a foreigner? I'm not being funny here...I just had a difficult time trying to follow what he/she was actually trying to say.

And I kind of like trolls - isn't there another tag we could use for "plants?"

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Alanna; I live in Lee, MA. The Herrings are still here, also. Love to see you. Bob

[jeannie (jeannie)]

She is speaking GG group-speak. Think Big Brother, think Orwellian.. it is another language, another world. I know what she is saying but please don't make me translate...

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

yup, group speak it is...

plants? as in pot-ted???

I no longer do translations either, Jeannie. The nausea just ain't worth the trip, ya know?

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

HAHAHAHAHHHHH - RJ, Jeannie, you're makin' me laugh tonight. Now generally I still remember how to follow the wandering thoughts around the barn, down to the creek, through the garden, etc. etc...but that post didn't even seem coherent...or perhaps I just am not smahhht (from Maine) enough to "get it" -- but I don't want you to slough through the valley of dispair to translate!! I'll just lurk until I get it - or not...{:-)

Bob - Oh, yes, I do remember that you are in Lee. (I used to live in the old Ice House on the property there...it was such a "move up" for us - what an odd time!)

[schooltime (schooltime)]

Wonderer is your first name Jeff?

[anon_for_ever (anon_for_ever)]

Please bear with the Wonderer! His IP is in Finland. (I think it's a he.) It's great that there are Finns here, I almost lost hope and thought they haven't found this place where they can write their concerns and read facts ;). Let's take him seriously, ignore the language barrier and answer him without lashing, ok? Maybe he gets some illumination and doesn't go away.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

"Pastor's role in the bema seat judgement (Hp 13:17) is more a one sort visualized application, than a strict absolute doctrine"

Visualized? That is bunk! CHS taught it dogmatically, and elaborated on it in small groups and at raps. He said he would be present and that Jesus would ask him questions about you, and if he (CHS)could not give Jesus a good report on you Jesus would present you to the heavenlies as "LOSER!" Believe me, I still sting from the "raking over the coals" I got for speaking out against this one, so I remember it well! It was not "visualization," it was egomania!

Many have said on here, and I echo it, thank God for the good things taught! And there were many, those I will keep. But get rid of the "crap" that was taught wrong. And, speak out against the (continued) mis-application/ignoring of doctrine taught.

There are real problems.

God bless,

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[c_la_verite (c_la_verite)]

That Bema Seat doctrine was a real favorite of Demeo as well.

[countdown]

Grow! Don't be subjective!