Bitterness

[juanita (juanita)]

I have read many of the posts on here and one thing that is plain, is that you share one thing in common, you are all bitter about the wrongs done to you in the past. I'm not saying this in condemnation, believe me. I'm a sinner, too, and you can't let go of anything on your own, it has to be from God. To tell you the truth, I can't quote you chapter and verse to back up soul attachment issues, I can only say I was delivered from it by God and looking back at it, I was always looking for the needs of my soul to be met outside of God which caused warped relationships with others. I looked to others not God and it's messed up. I would be disappointed if others didn't meet my expectations, such as Dancer said in one of his previous posts, "I called one pastor 20 times and he never called me back", that type of thinking. I think alot of wrongs were done to all of you, but holding on to all of these things is poison. The thing is though you can't let go unless God does it through you. I want to share a testimony of what God did for me. Several years ago my brother's wife left him and their 2 small sons. She did some very hurtful things to him and the boys. I hated her so much, so much I would have liked to have smashed her. The hatred for her became a primary force in my life, I was obsessed with it. I was a Christian and I knew I should love her, after all, doesn't the Bible say to love your enemies, but I didn't care. I didn't want to love her, so I was in direct rebellion against God's word. The hatred was eating me alive, all I could see was all of the wrong that she had done to my family. Then I was up in my room one day making up my bed and I cannot explain what happened except to say it was powerful. I started to experience her sin and I became broken, I started weeping for her, and for the first time in my life I saw her as the victim of her own sin. I wept and wept. I called her mother on the phone, her mom is a Christian, and I said, don't stop praying for her. When all of this happened my heart was filled with such love for her. God somehow had taken away the bitterness and replaced it with His love. I was able to share later with her what God had done in my heart. She ended up getting saved. Now I know you are probably thinking this is not the same. But hatred for others will eat you alive. I want to share one more thing, once while I was involved in a project to raise money for missionaries, one of the people from my church was working with me and shared something another person from church said to them that was very hurtful. I never discussed it anyone, but that very night God awoke me from my sleep and I began to pray that God would heal and reconcile these 2 people because you see in God's eyes, it's not a question of right or wrong, but of reconciliation. I have been through some deep hurts in my life, and I could give a testimonies, but my testimonies would not be of my pain, but of what God did. God has given me amazing experiences and proven to me over and over that He is faithful. As one song says, I cannot remember a hurt or a pain He did not recycle to bring me gain, He's always been faithful to me.

[john_krainis (john_krainis)]

Juanita, you clearly have a resume/relationship with God.

Can I suggest some motives other than "bitterness" and "hatred" for participating here:

Sharing experiences and encouragement,
Providing information,
Contending for the truth,
Pressuring GG leaders to reform,
Giving moral support to those whom God is calling out of GG,
Outrage at Scripture-twisting and spiritual abuse,
Compassion for victims,
Jealousy over the reputation of Jesus Christ and His church, and
A sense of responsibility.

While the Bible (and common sense) warn against bitterness and hatred, each of the above purposes has Biblical support and can be motivated by love.

[juanita (juanita)]

so much of what is shared carries the tone of bitterness in it. If people have walked away fromm GGWO they still can't seem to let go. What's done is done, how can raking up all the crap from years past be an encouragement. I mean so much of what is written about how the young people were treated and forced to conform to what the cookie cutter image of a Christian should be isn't that exactly what is being done here, pressuring GG leaders to reform. Do you think God is big enough to do the job. Case in point I had a root inside me for 17 years that caused me to be screwed up. Now on the surface I had it altogether, I was going to church, etc. No one knew, but God did. I needed to be healed and He did it. I think what these folks want is acknowledgement that wrongs were done to them. They were done, on behalf of God I am sorry.I believe God is a big enough God to change hearts. I also believe that all things work together for good. I am not making excuses. I have found in my most hurtful times that the one God wanted to change more than anyone was me. Was there a right side and a wrong side, yep I guess there was, but God's side was the only one that was worth anything, and that was the Cross.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

I am braking my absitnence from FN rule for this.

I have no bitterness, but there is a sadness over the shallow nonsense that parades itself for Christianity in some places. It saddens me because I believe God has so much more for us.

To say everyone here is bitter is a broad generalisation that overlooks the individuals and their stories. How life unfolds in each life is a sacred thing, it is the work of God as He draws men and women to Himself.

Many have had to stand alone to reject false concepts or even limiting doctrines about God.
Some have questioned their salvation and their sanity.
Because they love people was very difficult for some. Not everyone can jump up and say "To God be the Glory!"
Often that is a glib, crude response to a hurting soul, but if you want to say it in your own situation feel free.
If you think of God as a taskmaster who is punishing you because some man says you are evil for not agreeing with him, well those insecurities must be dealt with, but I believe if teaching was the stumbling block to put individuals in bondage those lies need to be exposed by the strong on behalf of the weak.

I have no animosity towards anyone but I do have an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.

If someone says they are right on because of forty or a hundred years of being a pastor, they are lying. In a moment we can be turned aside no matter what our history is. We are sinners who fall short.

Many men and women have written in a gracious way here and they also beseeched the leaders of GGWO privately to deal with serious departures from the Scriptures. They were personally ignored and publically slandered. They now have liberty to be public in order to warn others heading down the same road.

Their concern is for the health and well being of the Body of Christ.

Cancer must be rooted out or it spreads, despite our good experiences in ggwo, and we all have had them, it would be sentimental to ignore these grave matters just to live in a little bubble.

One last thing Juanita, you keep saying how you were not really involved in the ministry but the encounters you have had blessed you.
I would encourage you to respect the thoughts and outrage even of those who left house, families and homes, those who have had loved one's commit suicide because they were told God had rejected them.

I do not buy this argument that if we were trusting God or filled with the Spirit we would not get hurt as if what people did to each other was not important to God. Leaders are more accountable according to the Scritptures and nowhere does it imply that God will wait for eternity to mete it out.

Perhaps FN is being used to help these men see the light before it is too late.
Many of us have other things we could be doing.
We could just build new lives and forget those we have left behind but love constrains us.

God wants to give us full meaningful relationships within which we can see His love reflected. Why did He come in the flesh...wasn't it to make an invisible God visible.

Who says our hearts will not be broken. Certainly not God. He draws near to the broken hearted.
When King David fled in the hillside from King Saul his army was made up of malcontents, those who were outcasts, in debt etc...I would wager that there was some bitterness among them.
To make assumptions about the inner world of others is not something I would dare to do especially among the hurting.

[lana (lana)]

I don't call it bitterness, but expressing our pain. We've all been through what you write. This is different. You wern't separated from Christ and replaced with a man. This separation takes years to understand and find our way back. We didn't choose it, we were manipulated very cleverly. Too many of us have the same story and are in the process of healing, by sharing our stories. Its not a matter of "letting go" Its a matter of bridging the great gap by finding the Truth.

[calv (calv)]

bitterness
on a throne
disguised
judgeing
all

the flavor
bile
infecting
rejecting
alone

a prison
a throne
alone
bitter
old

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Hiding pain-pretending it doesn't matter, glib retorts and disapproval for sharing....what greater recipe for bitterness could there be.
Let it be known
Kick it off the throne
You will no longer be alone
And who is ever old in the hands of
the God of eternity
Children we remain
and wonder never ceases.

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Juanita,
If a man knows that harm is being done to people and says nothing,then that man is guilty of continueing the harm.As guilty as the one who does the harm.

If we do not attempt to warn others and straighten out the wrong.We are commiting sin.

When the Lord gives you knowledge on a thing,He expects you to act upon it.Not to sit on your lees and excuse yourself with the mantra of "God will take care of it."No ,in fact we are to take care for His body here on earth,and not to be slack about it.

If I see a chld being kidnapped,you can bet I'm going to get involved to the detriment of the kidnapper.
If I see some parent punch their child in the face,I'm not going to say "God will take care of it."I'm going to lay that person out flat on the ground with my fist.Then I'll call the police.
Why? Because the minute I become knowledgeable about the incident,I am responsable to act upon that knowledge.Not become apathetic.
If I know someone has commited rape,should I just assume "God will deal with it?"NO!
I am required to stop them by turning them in.If I do not,then I become an accomplise to their crime and they will continue to do it.

God is dealing with these issues concerning GGWO.He is using His people to do it.People who have personal and expieriential knowledge about it.People who choose not to be a party to the wrongs that have been and are still taking place.

That my dear is Love.

Dave</font>}
}}}

[lana (lana)]

Unless you have been raped, you can't know what it is like. If your soul has been raped by a cult, you can't know what it is like. A deprograming process is going on here. We feel a kinship with one another. We are becoming bold, we finally have a voice. WE can't lay back and say "God is taking care of it".It isn't bitterness, its pulling evil out by the "roots". We are part of the "army of God".

[calv (calv)]

aiming
into the main stream
destructive
christian cults
like an ex-ray vision
exposeing
enemy strong hold
out to kill
truth
behind the facaude
colors of gray
mixed in with sin
penitrating
the soul
cry of pain
hurts the ears
drown out
by the noise
easly distracted
brushed over
swept under
denied

[hodeuon (hodeuon)]

NKJ Ezekiel 33:1 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
2 "Son of man, speak to the children of your people, and say to them: 'When I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from their territory and make him their watchman,
3 'when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he blows the trumpet and warns the people,
4 'then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head.
5 'He heard the sound of the trumpet, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life.
6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.'
7 " So you, son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me.
8 "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.
9 "Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
10 " Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: 'Thus you say, "If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?" '
11 "Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'
12 " Therefore you, O son of man, say to the children of your people: 'The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.'
13 "When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.
14 "Again, when I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right,
15 "if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
16 "None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 " Yet the children of your people say, 'The way of the LORD is not fair.' But it is their way which is not fair!

While Ezekiel 33 does not match up in all particulars to the situation in GGWO, I believe we can draw an application from it. We are not here because of bitterness. We are here because we see the sword coming and wish to warn those in GGWO. We would like to see the leadership 'turn from their sin and do what is right'. And I know first person that GGWO leaders are either reading FN themselves or are being passed summaries. They are hearing the warnings. Whether they are listening to them...I don't know.

I am not willing that bad doctrine should enable abusive behavior unchallenged until it gets so bad that a government agency puts an end to it. It is the duty of the Christian community to hold GGWO responsible, to use Scripture to rebuke and correct as Paul corrected Peter at Antioch.

Hodeuon

[heather (heather)]

Juanita, untill you look into the innocent face of a child that has been abused by this cult, untill you try to let go everyday only to have them come after you, coming to your door, making calls, sending vieled threats through others, calling the pastor of your new church, slandering you to parents of your students, when this happens to you every single day then you can tell someoen they are bitter and to move on. Having some wanna-be self proclaimed pastor not return a phone call would hardly constitute abuse. Im sure your heart is in the right place place, but pardon me for making damn sure not one more child suffers abuse at the hands of this ****bag cult. You call it bitterness, I call it exposing false teachers and false doctrine, I call it saving the children. I think that Bible you read says something about those things too.

[susanna_krizo (susanna_krizo)]

How convenient to call it bitterness...
Sounds like someone has been programed well by GG which is known to call every attempt to expose its sins either conspiracy, rebellion or bitterness. That way the fault lays with the exposer rather than the exposed one. It is very convenient and through this false teaching sins and wrongdoings have been hid for years. But why do you think Jesus said the following:

Matt 10:27-28
27 "Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Why should we keep silent when GG pastors are allowed to tell the whole world lies about people who have "gone against God" (read GG) without being called bitter? Why is it that our legitimate hurt and anger is called bitterness when their ranting and raving is considered "the voice from God"? Many a good man has fallen prey for illusions and deceptions, Juanita. I hope you can see through this one.

Susanna

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Psalm10:10 His victims are crushed, they collapse;
they fall under his strength.

11 He says to himself, "God has forgotten;
He covers his face and never sees."

12 Arise, LORD! Lift up your hand, O God.
Do not forget the helpless.

13 Why does the wicked man revile God?
Why does he say to himself,
"He won't call me to account"?

14 But you, O God, do see trouble and grief;
you consider it to take it in hand.
The victim commits himself to you;
you are the helper of the fatherless.


The current leadership calls good, evil and evil, good. The path of TBS/GGWO has left victims crushed and collapsed. This includes children who were sexually molested and raped. They ignored their voices. These victims fell under the strength of a system. And maybe it would seem that God hid His face and He had forgotten them. But I can only speak for myself. My story is just a tiny portion of the bigger story. But I know when I marked, shunned, accused and slandered. When my children were told I was evil and off and "against God because I was against the ministry." At that point when grief was unbearable, when I wished to be dead I could have chosen bitterness as my path. But I did not, when stripped of everything I cherished, His Presence was more real, more merciful than anything else. He had not forgotten me. I have no bitterness in my heart only compassion for anyone who may have suffered far worse than I. God was not hiding His face. He has not forgotten one victim, one tear. He has not forgotten the anyone. He wants to restore all. It begins with repentance, He wasn't hiding His face, He knows. How silly it has become now in GGWO. How can everyone be evil who have left? How can Pastor Prokop be considered evil? Do you, who remain in GGWO, remember his compassionate and humble voice? Did he not exude Christ behind that pulpit you honor so highly? God wants this all to stop, He seeks repentance.

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

Conspiracy, Rebellion and Bitterness - the Rock, Scissors, Paper of GGWO cult apologists.

[jayso (jayso)]

Hi Juanita! I'm enjoying this thread a lot. I agree with those who say not everyone on this board is hateful and bitter. How could anyone say that about "Sojourner"? Her posts and poetry are loving and sweet. Calv has some great poetic thoughts and Dave Munson posts "the voice of reason".

I feel it is better to read each post and evaluate each for its content. Behind the message is the messenger. If messages are bitter sounding, we who are not "bitter" should seek to understand why the person is angry or bitter. Then, if we are praying Christians we should lift these people in prayer instead of spewing broad accusations about their motives or bitterness problem.

I've read FactNet since April. After a while you get to know how each person posts. If there is stuff that sounds angry and bitter, I've learnt to skim it over fast and go on to a more edifying post. BUT... I have found a LOT of edifying post and discern sincerety and kindness in many of them.

We shouldn't paint all Factnet members with a broad brush and say everyone who posts is bitter. Read with an open mind and look for the positive... it is there!

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Juanita,
You said in a previous post that you would not abide sin in your house, you also said you would not think you were loving someone if you didn't tell them they were doing wrong.
It confuses me how you could take this strong position and then tell those who do the same that they are all bitter.
If you cannot abide sin in your home then why do you rebuke fellow Christians who are exposing grievious sins and discrepencies among those who lead and control others, in the house of God?!

I would think based on your own words that you would applaud them.

God uses people, every one here is open to dialogue, the only ones who are not are those with an agenda to manipulate and preserve the status quo of their man made kingdom.
The Bible says that Judgment begins at the house of God. It says teachers will receive the greater judgment....It does not imply that this judgment is delayed for the last day...is it possible that God has raised up thousands of first hand witnesses to be the arm of His judgment now.
I see this as mercy because while we guard our hearts against superiority complexes and pointless anger, we may be used to help someone see the leaven for what it is and take a stand to put it to an end. How is that bad for the kingdom?
The only answer is in Christ himself.

[lana (lana)]

I read Juanitas post early this morning before it was deleted. Does anyone know why? It didn't seem bad. Did she do it or Ghost?

[sojourner (sojourner)]

I read it to. I know when I have deleted my posts it completely disappeared with no reference indicating it had ever existed. I could not imagine why the "Ghost" would step in and remove it. Maybe she will tell us. Sometimes we write and then wonder if it is meant for "general consumption" I am sure she is doing what she believes is right.

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Bitterness,rat poison for the soul.

Dave</font>}

[calv (calv)]

bitterness and resentments
follow me around
give em to God
but they keep comin back
why wont he take em
keep em away

a lot of work
to keep em away
all by myself
its a full time job

the power they have
all they control
infecting my life
I want to be whole

its hard to hide
something so big
something so real
so I just pretend
it dosent exist

how did it get here
why does it come back
why won't he take it
why can't I let go

why does it drive me
where will it lead
who can help me
what does it cost

can't do it alone
still I have to
one more thing to resent

like its so easy
im the only one
with a problem

everyone else
got it all figured out
seems to be working for them

but I know its not true
i see the way they act
thats what it is

bitterness and resentments
their all in the past
and they keep commin back

if I were stronger
really knew the truth
a little better christian
just used my will
try a little harder
grow up act like a man
quit being so silly
you have to forgive

ya its all real easy
for someone else to say
too damned hard
to get em to pray

bitterness and resentments
all I can do
keep givin em to God
till he takes em away

I don't ask for em back
but just like that
there they are
sneekin in my back door

just a part of a problem
ive had all my life
fuel for the fire
burning within

I cant fight it
all by myself
more than I can handel
thats why we need friends

asking for help
its hard to do
lots of it out there
or so it seems

go to a church
or a program
their you will find
all kinds of things

hard to tell who is helping
when your so needy
thought its Gods will

some have their own agenda
something to prove
bitternes and resentments
follow them too

its gettin much clearer
some things are hard to see
maybe in time
bitterness and resentments
will be a thing of the past

[lana (lana)]

Catv, I wrote a thoughtful post to you but they wiped it out through their "error" thing. I will try again
We are all in this together. Some can hide it easier than others. Some help and some don't. Some have religeous agendas for self righteousnes. Some are obedient to a man. Everyone of us is battling something in our lives. The truly humble are castoffs. These are the ones God is closest to.

[lana (lana)]

Jesus never went past "humility" He was born in a manger, He is God in the flesh. God is total humility.
The whole world, from the heavens to the tinest microbe was fashioned in perfect order The only thing that is out of order is man but with the seed of perfect order within him. (The image of God). After the fall, God gave His Son to show us the way back into His perfect order. Each of us were given the choice to help ourselves and others on this journey. Back to humility where pride is defeated is our calling. (my thoughts)

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Juanita,
I know that in a few cases there may be bitterness but there is mostly Godly indignation and there lies the differance.

Dave</font>}}}}

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

Now, Dave, are you forgetting that Godly Indignation is not part of the GGWO apologist game?

The game is Conspiracy, Rebellion and Bitterness.

Conspiracy crushes Rebellion.
Rebellion cuts Bitterness.
Bitterness covers Conspiracy.

Sheesh!

Next you're going to complain that the rules should be equitably applied to all players or something.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

I figure it this way...If Jesus was ****ed off (righteously) at the money changers who defiled the temple with their greed, misuse of the scripture to take advantage of those who love God and want to serve Him,and their hubris well then, I can be ****ed off (righteously) too, at these evil GGWO leaders who are fleesing the flock financially, spiritually, emotionally and mentally too.

Color me totally angry with the continued hubris and greed of these men who hurt the innocent in the name of God...that is NOT bitterness....THAT is righteous indignation for a fact.

[minutus (minutus)]

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. 7 Let him drink and forget his poverty, And remember his trouble no more. 8 Open your mouth for the dumb, For the rights of all the unfortunate. 9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, And defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

An interesting conjunction: Help the bitter overcome their bitterness and fight the oppression that made them that way. Bitterness is not a sin, rather a heartfelt reaction to injustice. The sin is in staying that way for the rest of one's life, I would think.

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

Why is it if someone tells their story about what happened to them at GGWO they are bitter or wounded, but if a GGWO pastor gets in the pulpit and blasts off on people for leaving, accusing them of being "infected" people say "WOW" and line up to buy pizza at the rap so they can receive the gory details?

Dave: I like KJV on that one. "wine unto those that be of heavy hearts...And remember his misery no more."

"Misery and drinks don't mix too well,
Juke box records don't play those wedding bells..."
(Merle Haggard)

Jim

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

Hi everyone, just got out of the hospital, thought I'd jump in where the Lord leads. I thank all of you who prayed for me. I want to address this to Juanita:
biter= having or being a taste that is sharp,causing sharp pain to the body or discomfort to the mind. difficult or distasteful to accept or admit; the bitter truth.
Juanita, I read this site for 3mos before i posted and I'll tell you it hasn't all been a bed of roses. What it has been though is folks who have been shaken to the very bone, about their God, their belief, not only of themselves, but the Lord's representatives on this earth. When I left GG, I didn't leave because of some travisty, but instead because the Lord called me away. As I started conversing with many on this site, I thought hey, all things work for the good, God does restore the years that the locust have eaten, and on and on I could have went forever. What made me see things differently were the posts right here on FN. I began to not be so subjective as I read, but became objective. I mean even when I first started going to GG and was in Bible College, I was in a gym one day pumping iron and I seen an old friend of mine who I hadn't seen in years. I told him what I was up to and he said he too was in Bible College and discovered some cultish practices at GG and so he up and took his whole family and left and told me he has no desire to ever step foot in a building (church) again. I didn't listen to him, I'm not in a cult I said, Do I look like someone who is being controlled? Juanita, I don't know how long you were in the ministry, but one thing I do know is that as I read over these posts, I try not to look at things from a subjective viewpoint. I want to put myself in these peoples shoes and then ask, "Why would they be saying things like this/" Especially about a ministry that many gave their entire lives to. I've seen church splits before, but the issues with them were a far cry from the experiences of the folks posting here. I mean we need to open our eyes, our spiritual eyes Juanita, and we need to see things for what they really are, not just some Disneyland Theme Park and verything going to be alright if we just batten down the hatches and put our nose to the grindstone. Look at some of the people who have left. If your informed you know. Men of honor and integrity have resigned. Walked away from something they thought was so big, they would die in this same ministry you call GGWO. Were you at the service when two people got up to go to the bathroom, and CHS called them spiritually braindead. Then claimed he didn't know how anyone could get up and leave with a message like his was being preached that night. I'll tell you how they could leave, nature called. Did you here the message where he called girls who worked downtown on the Block, Whores, not poor lost souls caught up in prostitution. " Whores" and I justed so happened to bring one of those whores with me that night and she'll never walk in a church again. But stuff like that isn't even the issue, it is the lives of all these precious children of God who for more years than you would like to count, trusted God, and trusted a man. Not just any man. A very charismatic man, who knew just what buttons to push to sway you. The people here are doing what we used to call in the 60's letting it all hang out. The real bad thing Juanita is there are those that are being sent out into the far corners of the earth, and they are fully submitted to Home Base. Are we not supposed to be fully submitted to Christ? And one night I sit in a church not 100 miles from GGWO. It's another GG, but not in Balt and one of CHS disciples is running the show. And it reminded me so badly of Eze 22:28b " saying; thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord had not spoken. Could you imagine being someone who is struggling with their sexuality, and they hear a message, and the man behind the pulpit calls them faggotts, and then makes this declaration; that God also calls them faggotts " Thus saith the Lord" Not only will people be hurt by this sort of abomination, but their children also. Do you know Juanita that this failure to repent and make things right has caused very families to split. I was in a church that put me in bondage and when i found out, I felt as though I had been violated, clean down to the bone. To every aspect of my being. If you keep this all botled up, then it may possibly become a root of bitterness. Let me finish with this. " And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy: but I found none. Well that was talking about Jerusalem around 593B.C . I would like to encourage you to read chapter 22, becaus what you have run across here on FN my dear is not just one, but many, who are standing in the gap, for CHS, many pastors and those still on staff, and also are standing in the gap for all their brothers and sisters in the Lord, and some have literal family members still at GG. Don't think for one minute that they are not on their knee's everynight praying, standing in the gap; for those who aren't capable of that at this season in their lives. So if there is anything bitter, what you have just heard is the bitter truth.

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

AND THAT'S THE BITTER TRUTH, CAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO; WHAT,...... WHAT,......... WHAT

BOYEEE, I'M NOT ONLY GONE TO PA, BUT I THINK THAT ELECTRO SHOCK THERAPY GOT ME LOST IN PA;
WHAT; iN hIS lOVE
gONE TO pA OUCH, WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE UNPLUG THAT EXTENSION CORD OR UNWRAP IN FROM AROUND MY EARLOBEhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif So good to see you back GTP and in such wonderful form.

Dave</font>}}}}

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

yeehhhhhhh boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

God loves my wonderful form, because He too has a sense of humor. Thanks, it's good to be back.

[spiritualwarrior32]

I do not know what is going on and have never heard of GGW. What does GGW stand for? It seems like you guys were caught up in some type of church that was holding you in bondage.

Looking at this from an objective standpoint I can see what you all are saying but I can also see what Juanita is saying when she says there is some bitterness which is understandable. What I am seeing is that by talking about it, seeking God and praying for each other healing is going forth.

I just want to make a point. I was in a different kind of bondage. I was in an abusive relationship before I came to know the Lord. After renewing my relationship with the Lord, seeking him dailey through prayer and his word, I eventually got out of that relationship. After I got out and some healing took place, I had to take a look at what was in my personality that got me into that relationship. In other words, how did I allow the enemy to get in to my life like that. I had to get a mirror ministry.

I am not saying that we do not expose those who are wrong but sometimes in always pointing the finger we neglect to take a look at how that ministry or person was able to hold us in bondage. Were we really seeking God or mammon? Were we reading his word? Were we praying to him dailey and not once a week or every now and then. We have to take a hard look at our relationship with God.

I pray for healing amongst you all that were hurt by those who misused their authority and leadership.

[sidethorn]

A lot of sincere people who were seeking God daily, and were reading the Word daily were sucked into the cult of Greater Grace World Outreach since its so cleverly disguised as an on fire evangelical church to entice sincere people in and then mislead them into erroneous teachings of self serving pastor/teachers. Teachings of salvation by grace, the finished work, and eternal security were used to lure people in. Then people were given the koolaid of false teaching to drink, like never question the pastor or anything, don't think for yourself, let your pastor/teacher think for you, God wants you to have one GGWO pastor/teacher for life, leaving that pastor/teacher or GGWO is leaving God's geographical will for you and will bring severe divine judgement against you. The list goes on and on. Many posts on Factnet summarise the false teachings along with other sites like www.carlstevens.org (http://www.carlstevens.org) and www.discussggwo.org (http://www.discussggwo.org) along with others.

Many people have been lured into bondage to these self serving con men that run GGWO and are still trapped there by false teaching and brainwashing. Peoples' loyalties and worship have been redirected from God to the pastor/teachers who act like go-betweens between the people and Jesus Christ. Carl Stevens has been applauded and worshipped as an idol for many years. Fortunately many people have come out and are publicly exposing GGWO as the dangerous manipulative cult that it is. Factnet exposure has been a major part of this. Some of the comments here on Factnet may appear bitter when they're really not. People are trying to make a point and strongly worded comments are necessary. Even people with strong relationships with the Lord with no real faults in it were tricked into this cult. Its dangerous mixture of some truth, and the half-truths and outright lies can entice even the very strong mature Christians in and lead them astray. Exposing this cult is crucial and thank God the Internet is there as such a valuable tool. People are escaping this cult and getting their spiritual walks straight again. Thank God for that!!