Former GGWOers who wrote books

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

a few days ago i came across this book on amazon called 'chocolate chip cookies and a wired dog: the story of my wonderful life.' i recognized the name of the author as someone who had been in GGWO back in the 90s... i think he was in rome. anyway, i got the book and, apart from some editing problems, it's very interesting and eerily similar to my schooling in GGWO affiliates.

i'm not all the way through it yet, it's a huge book. i've been jumping around... some of it is really funny. one chapter is called 'men in slacks: how i stopped complaining and learned to love the polyester'

anyone else know about this, or read the book? check out the listing here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595377351/002-1544532-2904818?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glanc e

[dragged_thru_mud (dragged_thru_mud)]

Matt Ballou quit TBS in the 70's to run for office in MA.

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

all the stories seem to indicate that the author was a teen in the 90s. but ballou isn't listed as the primary author anyway, so who knows.

...there's a very funny chapter about 'god' coming from 'heaven' to visit the affiliate...

[nonotone (nonotone)]

shat?, OTP?... dat you guys in dat der book?

[no_touch_love (no_touch_love)]

"Matt Ballou quit TBS in the 70's to run for office in MA." i thought he started a rock band? you sure?

[sojourner (sojourner)]

Whatever reason he left, he was smart enough to do it...I must have been oxygen deprived.

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hey Sojo,
what if all preachers where required to inhale helium when they spoke?
Wouldn't that be fun?


Dave


</font>}

[sojourner (sojourner)]

It would certainly create an affectation that would be more consistent with the circus act that occurs in many pulpits...it's seems many "ministers" think the message won't get through if they don't have this certain inflection and gasp for air at the end of nearly every word...The helium squeak might save them a lot of effort in that department...look all the hard work they have to go through with out it:

"In-ah that-ha day-ah...there-ha will-aha be-ah, a great-ah
darkeness-ah...oh-ah...praise-ah the Lord-ah! We-ah not-ah children-ah of the darkness-ah but-ah of-ah the light-ah!!!

Ah, ah choo (that was me sneezing, I am allergic to the very thought of them)

Yea Dave helium might be very marketable stuff for some of these mousekateers-ah!

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
You just nailed down a great impression of a certain pastor we both know.Ha ha ha ha ha.

You ah know what I oh ah mean?LMAO

</font>}

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

i'm serious here.
are there any artists, writers, etc out there who have used their GG experience in their work? we're so easily distracted on this board. not everyone expresses themselves like the LW crew does - with irreverent humor and bad digital collages.
the guys in my original post wrote a book (i found their website here: http://www.andawireddog.com/), and others - even on this board - have written poems or re-interpreted lyrics and whatnot. we've talked about art on the board before, and i want to know if there are artists/writers out there? chime in!

[rj_fernalld (rj_fernalld)]

I have written poetry/prose about what I experienced/felt /thought/what I knew others went through. Not published.

However I do remember a former TBS pastor (mid-1980's) who was kicked out because he taught "follow your heart" wrote a book. It was fiction but thinly disguised.


(Message edited by Rj_fernalld on November 29, 2005)

[lee (lee)]

Phil Strout wrote a book entitled:
God's Relentless Pursuit: Discovering His Heart for Humanity. Ampelon Publishing, or, you can get it at Amazon.
Joel Freeman has written several books. Google him!
Jack just got a contract to have his book published. It's not religous, but, education reform, with a moral and ethical approach.

Anymore?

[whatsup (whatsup)]

I don't think Mac Cassidy is such a great example to use...he committed adultery and broke up his family, and he basically taught that adultery or any sexual activity was okay as long as "love" is involved and you are "following your heart". He is a pervert and a kook as far as I can tell. His ex-wife remarried and has posted on here, I don't think she would say he was close to "hitting the mark"

[rj_fernalld (rj_fernalld)]

Message deleted against my better judgement.

(Message edited by Rj_fernalld on November 29, 2005)

[jeannie (jeannie)]

It is the cycle of abuse. Some of the abused were abusers themselves. It dripped down from the top and permeated the fabric of our lives. Please could we drop the specifics in this conversation? We know family members who read and why intentionally inflict further pain if we can avoid it? Please?

[rj_fernalld (rj_fernalld)]

Then perhaps Joel Freeman's name and others might also remain unsaid here...former members who read here might not appreciate those names either for reasons unspoken.

We name some, and are admonished to leave other names unspoken. We have openly stated the names of others we have considered abusers and abused, with little regard to the sensibilities of the readers...why? Because we care less about those readers perhaps?

There are many who read and post here who have been frank, open, honest and most of us have gained much from their honesty. We have urged others to be truthful, and yet...when something hits too close to home...Carl urging his preacher boys to have a fling, and betray them when they are caught, havingno conscience at all about the wives and families...we are cautioned by some here to be "compassionate" and quiet.

If the truth said openly and with compassion and understanding for all parties involved is seen as intentionally inflicting pain, there is something wrong here...called a GGWO double standard.

I am sure to catch a load of flak for this...but I have seen this happen over and over here. And it smells as bad to me here as the double standard at TBS came to.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Point taken, RJ. You have mail.

[sojourner (sojourner)]

RJ I am so glad you wrote what you wrote...Factnet is a strange little parallell universe at times...we can sit hunched over our keyboards and let the words fly out, forgeting that they are now available for anyone to see.

I think we make those we have issues with, larger than life by constantly pointing out the things we percieved as failings on their part.

There really should be a conscientous effort to be responsible in every way for our communication.
A lot of it is just not expedient or in any way constructive to the readers.

The ones I have in mind always, are those who do not participate in the forum except to read the posts.
Many correspond with me so because, somehow, they graciously respond, I chime in on various subjects...not to lecture but because there are a few of us who really share these ideas and are out of the mainstream and I seem to be the one who writes it down...we consistently resonate with one another...I wish some of them would post but I certainly support their decision to read only.

I do not like it when threads are reduced to chat-room like conversations, however I have been guilty of that sort of interaction myself.

There is a way that some can be a big fish in a small pond on FactNet. Perhaps take pause and do some personal inventory to see if we really have something to say or if it is just passing the time with idle chatter. It is a very limited medium of communication and the nature of the relationships formed here are also very limited.

There is no need to respond to every little thing.

I am grateful that you have brought up the reality of the human lives that may be influenced in a negative way by the tone and content that is conveyed here. That is so, so important.

When I see names mentioned, especially of those who have been hurt, no matter what their position in the ministry was, I cringe inside. I definitely would take issue with someone using my name to bolster their opinions. It is a very sneaky underhanded thing to do.

Leave names out of it unless you have permission, or the information has already been stated first hand by the person involved on the forum.

Even then do not make others unwitting members of your school of opinion to make it as if it is a consensus. We need to stand on our own two feet.

[newface (newface)]

It is darn scary to post on Factnet sometimes!!!!

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

i don't know about scary... more like continental drift. by the fifth comment, the thread usually has nothing to do with what it was started with. it's like a game of telephone here.

anyway, i was reading in the book i mentioned above, and found this funny section:

"In life there are many things that anger me, and there are a lot of very unpleasant things that I just don't like to be around. The things that get me into an angry fluster generally amount to just about anything involving people other than myself. One of these things is the Annual Church Rally.
This yearly event is when my church puts on a little shindig for its founding church. See, my church is a branch of large world wide ministry, or something like that, and so the head honchos come around every once in a while to collect the tribute monies and make sure everyone is toeing the line.
The home church headquarters for this organization is in Baltimore (henceforth referred to as “Heaven”), and every year people who attend church there come up to hear their own pastors speak at our church. That’s right, average parishioners go on a pilgrimage to follow their leaders all over the place. There is always a contingent from that church anywhere the head Pastor (henceforth referred to as “Pastor God”) speaks, as if they couldn’t hear him speak right where they were. It’s like a whacked out Grateful Dead tour or something.
The interesting thing about this little joy-of-a-weekend is that when these pilgrims leave some of our church members always take off with them. So let’s say that the visitors from Heaven stop by on a Thursday and hang out until, say, Saturday night. Then they, and three-quarters of our church, will take off for drive back down to Heaven, arriving in time to hear Pastor God preach for the Sunday morning services. On these days our church is left with about fourteen people who stand around and look at each other with nothing to do."

[lee (lee)]

OTP....the section you chose to share with us gave me a flashback! Of course, I was one that flew off to the heavenly place as often as I could, leaving folks behind, that had no idea what we were doing! They would make comments about the sudden emptying of the church, but we were too thick to catch on to what they were saying.

Looking back, I marvel at the power the pastor god had over us. We really believed we couldn't live without our regular dose of his performance. Sometimes, a wave of shame floats over me. I think of all those that were in our church and wonder how they are doing these days. We saw a lady at our new church that once was in ours this past Sunday. I often see another one at the grocery store. Sometimes I get a call from someone. God takes good care of those he loves! Whew, so glad He's the one taking care of them and not me!

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
It bothered me greatly when "pastor god" would come and the church would fill to the brim with people who only came to "touch the hem of his garment."People who wouldn't come unless he was there.
Then when "pastor god" would leave,these people would go back home and dine on the "holy spirit" radio broadcast,rather than come to fellowship with others.
That was an alarm bell to me that something was wrong.


Dave


</font>}

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

it's interesting, it seems that there was as much 'annointing' as there was 'marking' going on. perhaps people have comments about this? the author points out this phenomenon in this bit about one of the Baltimore singers who came to his affiliate once...


"Now Ol’ Diggs was supposed to stay at our home for a mere five days. The second she got there she started making demands. Not only did my parents have to give up their own bedroom for her, but they also had to immediately run out and pick up an expensive brand of hand ground coffee to satisfy her caffeine intake requirements. About two minutes after she came in the door I said to myself, “<font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>, and I thought I was demanding."

"She certainly was an assumer. She assumed this, she assumed that, and generally her assumptions had to do with us doing for her what she should have done for herself. I really don’t blame her for this attitude, because she was trained to think this way down in Heaven. See, she was one of Pastor God’s favorites for a while, and that meant that she got favored treatment while out and about. She’d learned to make the most of this honored status by just assuming that everyone else knew that she was important. It was a logical, if somewhat annoying, assumption."

lol, i just looked at the amazon listing for this book again, and now there is a picture up of the author as a child being dragged around in a box...

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Watch it OTP,
I played with boxes when I was a child and I won't tolerate any denegrating of such wonderful home made toys.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif
J/K
There was the sliding down the stairs,rolling in it like a tank and what kid wouldn't want a ready made fort?

Really though,stop it,you're making me feel old.
LMAO.
Where's my cane?


Dave


</font>}

[minutus (minutus)]

Boxes made good submarines and rocket ships for us as kids (we moved every year, so my brother and I were real familiar with them) and were just chosen for the Toy Hall of Fame:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2005-11-12-cardboard-box_x.htm?csp=34

[gone_to_pa (gone_to_pa)]

ONE NIGHT I BROUGHT A FRIEND TO GG ON A WEDNESDAY NIGHT. AS WE WALKED DOWN OVER THE HILL FROM MORAVIA PARK DRIVE HE EXCLAIMED " I DIDN'T BELIEVE IT AT FIRST, BUT NOW I'M SURE THIS PLACE IS A CULT. HOW ELSE WOULD ALL THESE PEOPLE COME OUT ON A WEDNESDAY NIGHT?" I GUESS THEY WERE ALL THERE TO SEE PASTOR G..? I WAS TAKIN BACK A BIT BECAUSE THIS GUY HAD NEVER BEEN TO GG. WHEN THE SERVICE WAS OVER, MY FRIEND TOLD ME HE WAS SPOOKED THE WAY THAT EVERYONE ON STAGE SEEMED TO JUMP HOOPS JUST TO SIT BY PASTAAH." WHAT'S WITH ALL THE ARMED GUARDS DUDE? HE SAID. I HAD TO EXPLAIN THAT 40 YEARS AGO THERE WAS A THREAT ON CHS'S LIFE AFTER HIS CHURCH BURNT DOWN AND HIS BEEN A LITTLE INSECURE EVER SINCE. LOL. NOW THESE WERE THE DAYS THAT AFTER THE SERVICE THE FW SINGERS WOULD SING SOME PRAISE SONGS AND WE WERE ALOUD TO APPROACH THE FRONT OF THE STAGE. I'LL NEVER FORGET THOSE DAYS, PRAISEING MY LORD, HANDS RAISED WITH A COUPLE THOUSAND OTHERS, AS I WATCHED CHS LIFT HIS HAND TOWARD US GIVING US HIS BLESSING. SO PRAIIIIISSSSEEEE HIM, LIFT YOUR HANDS AND PRAAAAAAISE HIM.ISN'T IT KIND OF STRANGE THAT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ATTRACTED US TO GG WERE THE SAME THINGS WE FOUND TO BE A LITTLE WEIRD LATER ON AND BECAME SOME OF THE THINGS THAT MADE US LEAVE. ANYONE ELSE IN THAT BOAT? I MEAN WHEN CHS USED TO GET THE STANDING "O" ON OCCASION, I BELIEVED HE WAS MOST LIKELY DESERVING. WHEN I LEFT, WHILE EVERYONE AROUND ME WOULD STAND, MANY, MANY TIMES, I NEVER WOULD AND FOLKS WOULD LOOK AT ME LIKE I DESACRATED THE TEMPLE OR SOMETHING. I JUST THOUGHT JESUS WAS MORE DESERVING THAN CHS. AND IF THEY SANG THAT SONG ABOUT THE CHURCH THAT CAN BE DEFEATED ONE MORE TIME, I THINK I WOULD HAVE LITERALLY JUMPED ON STAGE AND TOSSED ALL THOSE SINGING OUT INTO THE AUDIENCE. ONE TIME I ACTUALLY HAD A GUY BEHIND ME, WHO I KNEW, TAP ME, LIKE "GET UP AND CLAP FOR THIS GUY" [BOY, IF LOOKS COULD KILL] I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN A CHARGE. " HOW COULD A LOVE LIKE THIS, TURN OUT TO BE SO WRONG" ( AREN'T THEY WORDS OF A SONG?) ONE THING I WILL GET TO ENJOY THIS YEAR IS OUR CHURCH HAS A CHRISTMAS EVE SERVICE AND A CHRISTMAS DAY SERVICE. HEY ALL, HAVE A GODLY DAY.
SHALOM GTP

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

another funny section from that book(http://www.andawireddog.com/)... a pastor comes to lecture the school kids about sexual matters:

"He said that his mission for the morning was to “set [us] sinful children back on the straight and narrow.” Some of the boys who idiotically sat near the front began to blubber a bit, and he tried to make them feel a bit more relaxed by switching to an “I’m your friend” sort of angle. As the talk went on, he attempted to calm us by saying that we weren’t in trouble exactly but we, “just needed to talk.” He then launched into a “birds and the bees” riff like you’ve never seen. He wanted us to know the truth about sexual matters, and how we should conduct ourselves around the ladies. He told us about reproduction, about sinful perversions. He explained differences between the genders. He spoke of God’s plan for the “marriage bed.” He even spoke at length about spontaneous erections and how they were normal; I’m not sure if he used the term but I like to think he did say “hard-on” once or twice. He went on to charge us to leave it alone:
“I don’t dare touch it, I don’t dare. Neither should you!”"

LW has been updated: http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2005/12/carl-teams-up-with-jack-lalanne.html

[no_touch_love (no_touch_love)]

OOOHHHHHH!

[no_touch_love (no_touch_love)]

yeah this book is very cool, worth the read! two thumbs WAY up!

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2005/12/givin-it-two-thumbs-upway-up.html#comments

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

Gee, could it be that OTP and NTL wrote this book??

[nonotone (nonotone)]

"Chocolate Chip Cookies and a Wired Dog"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595377351/002-1544532-2904818?v=glance&amp;n=283155&amp;n=507846&amp;s=books&amp;v=glanc e

now has its first customer review.

(Message edited by nonotone on December 05, 2005)

[no_touch_love (no_touch_love)]

both lewd and love get ready for the holidays...

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/

[orangetwopay (orangetwopay)]

From page 123:

"I feel that the Old Woman’s employment situation needs some explanation, so let me clarify it for you. See, my mother does what’s called “part-time” work. What this means is basically that she left a great, REAL job to go do what she termed as “God’s will” or “God’s work.” Unfortunately for the rest of us God’s will was for her to take her paycheck, cut it in half, and then pizz on the rest. Now, hold on, we’re not done. After she took the God’s will gig, suddenly it became God’s part-time will since they only had half the hours worth of work for her to do. What’s that mean? Well sir, that means that you take your pay – the pay that was cut in half and pizzed on – and then cut that in half and work pretty much the same amount of time as you did before, even though on paper you are working like 20 hours a week. What a joy. No wonder our cupboards are bare."

[orangetwopay]

classic...

[boss_martian]

I finished the book last week. I thought it was great. I know I missed some of the hidden GGWO references, but I thought it was a good book regardless. There was a little Hunter S. Thompson in there. There's a section that I underlined because I have felt exactly the same way, but I couldn't find the words. I think the gist of it was "once in a lifetime".

[cptlauthor]

Well, some of us do grow beyond TBS/GGWO. I had a cookbook published by a major publishing firm. The name of the cookbook is "Capitol Cuisine, Recipes From the Hill, A Bipartisan Cookbook" The publisher was W.W. Norton. You can find it on Amazon or W.W. Norton's website. Rich and I were in the ministry from 1974 till 1989. Diane Milliken

[hadasa]

why that's a wonderful achievment madge, I know i'll be sure to miss my copy, see there is hope for us ex GGWO'ers down the road, we can still do great things to benefit those around us.

[louise_connolly]

Congratulations, Diane! I'll have to check it out.

[hadasa]

yeah, if you hurry louise, you can snag your copy for 32 cents off amazon.com; find out how teddy kennedy eats breakfast

[cptlauthor]

You know hadasa, that was not very kind considering the cookbook did come out 10 years ago! Diane Milliken

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Wait a minute,I thought I read 32% off.
Besides,who doesn't like to eat.
I mean leaving Ted Kennedy out of it and all.

Chapaquidic Ted.

Now I lost my appetite.
(sorry but I know the guy and one of his nephews)

</font>}

[louise_connolly]

Diane - I ordered one for Deb and one for me. Deb may already have one from 10 years ago, if so, now she will have two. I would have ordered it 10 years ago if I knew about it. I think it is swell and hope all is well.

[louise_connolly]

If Dave Carson and Jim Kennedy want to write books I'll buy one.

I have some gift cards from my 50th b-day to Borders and Barnes and Noble.
I'd like to use them up so get writing guys!

(Message edited by louise connolly on June 22, 2006)

[rocketman]

Well... ok.. Since you asked... I've been published, once only once, a short story in The Berkshire Review. the eighth issue I think (it's an annual) The story is called "The Ride" and it's a hitch hiking story.

I've seen Di's book and it's a great recipe thing.. Isn't there something for cranberries.. I could be wrong http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

More later..
J

[orangetwopay]

here you go connolly - barnes and noble:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=bT5omGcCTG&amp;isbn=0595377351&amp; itm=1

[louise_connolly]

OTP - I'll buy yours right after I buy one
by Jim (ZZZZZZZzzzzzz) Faucett.

[anova]

Louise,

Ssshhhhh...

Let sleeping dogs lie.

[shat_happens]

or wired dogs!

[cordell]

Some years back, my mother-in-law took her 90 year old mother to see the movie "Twister". When they got home, we asked her how she liked the movie and she answered,

"It sure was noisy in there!"

Well that was six bucks well spent, we all commented.

For Louise Connolly to buy the Wired Dog book would make as much sense, especially since she hasn't finished coloring-in the ones she already owns...

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Slow day huh?

</font>}

[orangetwopay]

i'm sure the authors wouldn't care if canollie wanted to color on their book - or do anything else to it for that matter - as long as she purchased it first.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[cordell]

she could use it to stroke the numerous and fuzzy little hairs on her menopausal chinny-chin-chin...

[coral]

<font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">abusive</font></font>

[whatsup]

I agree...that is over the top mean

[shat_happens]

it would only be abusive if she ended up getting a paper cut!

[rjfernalld]

Ahhhhhhh....there it is, that same old rancid testosterone from the rude and crude crowd. That was low even for you JF.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Yeah,
you might want to wipe that off of your shoe before going in the house.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

</font>}

[cordell]

me so bad.

[cordell]

some folks are just butt-dumb. abuse does not occur on a computer by the old guy behind the curtain. it is face to face. wake up. it's called use the scroll function.

I might call radio disney abusive because I can't stand AJ and Aly. But I have an on/off switch. duh.

[cordell]

rancid testosterone? am I barry bonds now? h3lls b3lls!

(it keeps me off the little blue bill)

[cordell]

The great thing about the factnet regular-anals...they're sofa-king predictable.

[shat_happens]

I love how we all can go from talking about my GOD inspired book (Chocolate Chip Cookies and Wired Dog: The Story of My Wonderful Life), into rancid testosterone anal fixations! Sounds just like another day at Greater Grace actually!

[whatsup]

Abuse certainly can occur on a computer...words can cut and hurt whether they are spoken in person or written. In this case particularly, because it is in a public forum, not just privately face to face. Everyone can read the insults and it is all the more embarrassing. As for the "on-off" switch, that doesn't do much good once the words have been written and read. The "chin hair, menopause" comment was especially cruel, because it did not address an issue but personal appearance and age. And it was an insult to all women who go through sensitive changes as a natural part of life. As do men, and to comment on their aging signs would be just as cruel.

[shat_happens]

Gee, i guess the term "sticks and stones" don't mean much eh!?

just think, now that she's old with hair on her chin, she can finally relate to Jesus having his beard pulled out and what not!

for the record, i haven't a clue who we're talking about, i just like the idea of an old woman with chin hair. but hey, even the bearded lady needs love too i guess!

[whatsup]

that sticks and stones thing was never true anyway, words can and do hurt as we all know

[rjfernalld]

exactly right, whatsup...we know it is true that words do hurt because we were all damaged by Carl's deceitful words...his words carried through the little men who believe in him have damaged so many that the number, could we know it, would stagger the mind.

[rjfernalld]

LOL cordell, you are every bit as predictable as everyone else

[shat_happens]

True, but lets be honest, abuse many times is simply a matter of perspective. I mean, God can be pretty much the most abusive of all (just read any OT story), yet because it’s from God, it’s all good and wonderful.

We get “trials” because God loves us and wants us to grow. So I mean one could say that ALL abuse is a good thing and from God and it’s something we should look forward to and be thankful for. Lets be honest, where is God’s love for a small child who gets raped and killed and left in a dumpster to be eaten by rats? Where is God in all that? But because God is holy, it’s all good, we shouldn’t question His sovereignty.

I’m not really trying to make a stink about what you were saying whatsup, just wondering what people think about this topic.

[rjfernalld]

Perspective. This is an interesting topic, shat.I understand what you mean, but might I offer an different idea...

The OT was not written for or to the Gentiles. God's actions toward the OT Jews were designed to deal with a stubborn and disobedient"chosen" nation.

The NT is where the Gentile is blessed by God. God is not the author of any pain mankind goes through. Man is a fallible being, therefore is apt more thann not to damage himself or others. God's role is that of savior, comforter, redeemer in this covenant. God has no magic wand to give us all pain free lives.

I hear from the kids who I talk to over and over:"Why did God allow this to happen to me?" I can only tell them that people gave them pain, evil people, but that God will heal their broken heart, send others to heal their broken bodies and is capable of helping to heal the spirit.

I have discovered that many of us...me included for far too long, were not properly introduced to this reality and I suffered from doubt, insecurity and spiritual insanity far too long. God, in this new covenant is the God of open arms, the prodigal son kind of God who will never turnhis back on our pain, our need, our wounds.

I didn't mean this to be solong, nor do I want to come off as condescending to anyone...I just wanted to share what I have been learning, and about this God that I am falling in love with.

btw, was it you who wrote the book mentioned above? I will have to get it and have you autograph it for me!

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Shat,
I think the "blame the fall on God' has been overdone a bit.
Yeah sure,every thing that people do is of course God's fault.
If some one is so immature as to seek a responce from another by being insulting,it's God's fault not their's right?
After all they aren't "accoutable" for what they "choose" to do to others are they?

Gee,I don't know what it is that is so familiar with that "I'm not accountable" thing?
Still in huh?

</font>}

[hodeuon]

How can you accuse Shat of being still in on the basis that he's asking questions? I don't think that's fair. Especially since it is one of the questions that everybody asks, not just people who were in TBS/GGWO - why does God allow suffering?

A lot of evil things happen to people that are not they're fault. The best I can do is suggest that if God stepped in right away all the time, our actions would for all intents and purposes not have consequences. And yes, a lot of those consequences suck. But I don't think God's justice would be satisfied by just making it all go away any more than His love would be satisfied by just zapping the perpetrators right away.

Hodeuon

[david_munson]

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Ok, I appologize
but my spelling still sucks.

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