Finding God at GGWO What men meant for evil God meant for good

[toolmahass]

I believe that God is much bigger than us. His ways are not our ways. With that in mind, could we actually say that God put us (and everyone else who was, is, or ever will be) in GG for His own reasons? I think He did. He put us all into GG for a reason. My feeling is that it was for something good to happen; I don't believe God put us in there without us getting something back, without it resounding to His glory. So my question to all of you is this: are there any good stories from your years at GG?

It could be long-lasting friendships, a certain aspect of the Word that you didn't know before, body life (apart from Carl and his crap of course), or something else. Can anyone actually say that something good came out of your time there?

I can say yes, a lot of good did happen. A lot of good came from my time there. I'm not saying this to give GG a pat on the back or anything, but the fact is there.

If we only see the bad, then we are not seeing what God was actually trying to do, and that's a sad thing.

[bjerwin]

In 1973, when only Jesus knew I was as down in the dumps as a Christian could be, contemplating suicide for the 1st time in my life, good friends Marty and Debbie O'Brien invited me to So. Berwick. The Lord changed my life in that ministry.

We all know all the down sides of the ministry. However, as you say tollmahass, I also was blessed out of my mind. The ministry taught me to believe God, that the Word of God is amazing, that the Jesus that I had accepted as my Savior 2 years before had a wonderful plan for my life.

I think we have all said that the friends we met in the ministry were the best we have ever had. They were for Mike and I. We fellowshipped with Jesus through those friends.

I truly believe that all things that happen to me are because my Savior allows it. I do believe I was led to TBS by Jesus. I do believe I was led out of TBS by Jesus.

I am sad that I lost that first love for Jesus after years in the ministry... I think that is the worst thing that happened to so many of us. We depended on Carl rather than Jesus, and he in his overwhelming insecurity allowed that to happen. However, you folks that I have met, that came through the bad and good times, are truly some of the finest Jesus folks I have ever met, and I believe in the world.

[bjerwin]

In 1973, when only Jesus knew I was as down in the dumps as a Christian could be, contemplating suicide for the 1st time in my life, good friends Marty and Debbie O'Brien invited me to So. Berwick. The Lord changed my life in that ministry.

We all know all the down sides of the ministry. However, as you say tollmahass, I also was blessed out of my mind. The ministry taught me to believe God, that the Word of God is amazing, that the Jesus that I had accepted as my Savior 2 years before had a wonderful plan for my life.

I think we have all said that the friends we met in the ministry were the best we have ever had. They were for Mike and I. We fellowshipped with Jesus through those friends.

I truly believe that all things that happen to me are because my Savior allows it. I do believe I was led to TBS by Jesus. I do believe I was led out of TBS by Jesus.

I am sad that I lost that first love for Jesus after years in the ministry... I think that is the worst thing that happened to so many of us. We depended on Carl rather than Jesus, and he in his overwhelming insecurity allowed that to happen. However, you folks that I have met, that came through the bad and good times, are truly some of the finest Jesus folks I have ever met, and I believe in the world.

[sidethorn]

God definately wants to work out all things for good for His people and I've seen that in my own GGWO experience. Despite all the nonsense that went on, God used GGWO to clear up confusion I had about eternal security. Through it all, God took all the confusion away and showed me that He never leaves His people once He saves them despite what they may do as believers. I also knew all along that this license to sin rebound stuff was a load of bull, and becamed infuriated how so many in authority at GGWO used eternal security and rebound to take advantage of people and avoid accountability for their actions. In my particular case, I was led to GGWO for specific reasons I found out later on. I joined the youth ministry and worked for several years as a driver and general helper. While doing all that, I befreinded many of the kids and a number of parents as well. Along the way I heard many of the false teachings discussed on Factnet (warped pastoral authority teachings, pastor's always right, no touch love etc). I saw first hand the brainwashing and viscious attempts to manipulate and take advantage of people. That's when the reason God brought me to GGWO became very clear, it was to undermine GGWO from within and expose the false teachings to people (especially kids) and lead them out of GGWO for good. Quite a few left, especially when GGWO fired me from youth ministry for failure to believe all of Carl Stevens' teachings. God even used my own firing to bring more people out! Then I went on publicly exposing GGWO as a place to avoid, and that ultimately led me to Factnet and the Internet. God gave me another wonderful present out of all this. One of the people I know from the youth group met a friend of the awesome lady that very recently became my lovely wife!!! We we're introduced to each other on a blind date, hit it off as friends, rode roller coasters together, fell in love and are now happily married. God is a good God that turns the bad things into good!!

[shat_happens]

Yeah, God'll take care of things in his own time, but if we miss the little things, then we might really be missing the point!

I know many will take what i just said as being praise for GG, and it is not!

[daved]

I sometimes have mixed feelings about the 1-2 weeks I spent at The Bible Speaks bible college in South Berwick Maine in 1975, but it did expose me to the atmosphere that exists in a building in which a visitor just sort of assumes that every person you meet is a person trying to find God's Will for their life.

When I hear Pastor Tom Shaller speak of the congregation at GGWO as being "the Body of Christ" I recall my 1-2 weeks at South Berick, and think just maybe he is correct.

Certainly GGWO is a portion of "the Body of Christ".

Daved

[forte]

daved,
(welcome back)

Yes, it certainly is but not because Schaller says so. That's a given. But his followers don't believe that other churches or disaffiliates are the true body of Christ. Remember how it was? You can be doing a good work but if you're not in TBS/GG it's just works.
You can be saved and part of the Body of Christ but if your not in GG it's questionable if you truly have the Holy Spirit.
So if your at GG, your fine. Just don't leave. THAT's what Schaller's intention is.

[shat_happens]

Daved, yeah, that is the problem with GGWO, we tend to group everyone as all one big group. Sure, many of the GGWO pastors were nothing but mini Carl clones, but a lot of them were just regurgitating what they were taught.

There needs to be accountability for them, sure, but not everything Carl/Shallow/GGWO say is a total lie, this is why it's so hard to tell the truth from the crap!

[lana]

Many seeking people from all walks of life were drawm to the ministry. Hungry, open hearts looking for Truth. What we saw was amazing. Could there be such a place? WE soaked up each message. We were obedient.Our personal lives, our talants, our families seemed to fade for this phenomina. We had a leader among leaders. Well, after years of this, I personally found my soul almost bankrupt. After leaving after 9 years, I wandered in the wilderness, penniless, undescrible allienation from reality.It took years to get back, but much damage was done.. It may have been God's will. I was a Christion for many years before I went there. I probably needed the experience.

[forte]

I don't know, lana, if you needed the experience but I do know that God uses all things.

[orangetwopay]

regarding this thread, someone posted this comment to LiquidWaves:

"What preposterous bull****.

I followed your factnet link, read your silly post. God's big plan was to divide marriages, separate brothers and sisters, parents and children, have people waste their lives serving king karl, then wake up years later like rip vanwinkle? I think the rapture happened - one was taken, the other remained, and now there's a great gulf fixed over which no one can cross.

You want to "credit" god with some great plan for placing us all in the cult? How about also blaming him for the resulting devastation? Oh, no, mustn't blame the omnipotent one for ANYTHING, right? If it's good, it's all of god. Bad? Must be due to sin in someone's life, an attack of the devil, or some other bull**** excuse.

Mussolini was credited (deserved or not) with making the trains run on time. And the Soviet communists kept street crime at bay. Should we elect fascists and communists to run the nation?

Just because something nice happened and there was a gg connection, why must we interpret it all as the plan of god? Oh yeah... no such thing as a mere coincidence in the parallel universe of the believer.

okay. stick your head back in the sand, praise jesus, and find another flavor of kool aide to sip."

i thought you all might want to read that.

my response to the author is simply this: so God isn't in control of the universe, eh? yeah, a lot of BS happens - no it's not God's fault. no, it's not God's will that horrific things happen, but He has commanded an order to things. when we disobey His commands, we have to reap the consequences - us and all the generations that follow us. that's a lot of responsibility that's been heaping up for many generations.

i find it funny that whoever made those comments above implies that carl h stevens - the little milkman - is somehow more powerful than God. somehow the little milkman is able to stymie God's plans. give me a break. God isn't surprised. He'll draw all things back to Himself as He determines in His own council.

i've done my fair share of questioning God. but i've never, ever thought that some puny carl-man could defeat God's will.

OTP

[whatsup]

actually he was a bread man, not a milk man.
although he did his fair share of milking too

[rjfernalld]

Experiencing TBS/GGWO taught me who and what God is not, and from there I was finally able to find that the real God does give beauty for ashes and the oil of joy for mourning, for which I am grateful and love Him all the more.

However, that in no way lets Carl Stevens off the hook..."he who hurts one of these, my little ones, it would be better that a millstone be tied around his neck and he be thrown into the sea" (paraphrasing)...God can use all things we experience, both good and bad, because his love is all encompassing, but those that lead others astray for personal gain and approbation lust are in for one big surprise when they stand face to face with Him....that also is a comfort.

[boss_martian]

Carl-man didn't defeat God's will. Carl didn't defeat God's will and more than Benny Hinn, David Koresh, Jim Jones, or any of those other "men of God" do or did.

They can't and they didn't have to. They attracted or fooled enough people to worship them. And they will continue to do so, especially as long as there are people to point out the good things that Carl, Benny, et al do.

I totally agree with the LW poster.

Tell me the good things that Mussollini did. He was part of God's plan just as much as Carl is. Tell me the difference. At least Mussolini had the GUTZ to say "this is what I say" and not hide behind "this is what GOD says". Explain the good part of Osama bin Laden please.

Spinning the good side of GGWO sounds to me like an abused wife: "He beats me and put me in the hospital, but he's a wonderful provider! We have a nice house! I know he really loves me!"

[bjerwin]

No, Boss, it is not "like an abused wife" at all. This is what you have always failed to understand. And that is OK.

Truly Boss, read what RJ said above. Really read it. As usual, she has hit the nail on the head.

Boss, I love ya man, but truly you are kicking against the pricks, and your life would be oh so sweet if you would just trust God on this one. No problem if you don't, you are still one of the most tender folks on here.

Important thing, Jesus Christ is on the throne, and has always been on the throne of our lives. Ok, for a little while Carl supplanted The Precious One. But like RJ said, that time is past, and we can and do count it all joy.

I am His, and nothing can happen to me, unless He allows it. If I can't rest in that, then I am truly lost. No, not like an abused wife... just a wife of the King....

[lmao]

I have had a lot of time to clear my head regarding tbs/gg. I have read and thought much about all the opinions on Factnet, some literature on cults and thought a lot about my own experience there. I have concluded for myself that I was not "deceived" into tbs/gg, but the Holy Spirit led me there to teach me about Himself. I learned a lot of Him while there and after the Holy Spirit led me out, I learned even more about Him and realized that some of what I learned from tbs/gg was wrong. I wouldn't change anything. I met the love of my life there and as a result have beautiful children which I consider to be a gift from God. God promised to order my steps and work all things for good and my testimony is that He has.

[iris]

Beautifully said, lmao. I guess if I thought about my own situation as thoroughly as you have done with yours, I would come to the same conclusions (I also met my love and had my kids there, and they ARE still there). I used to think that I need to recover from cult symptoms, but now it's not the main point any more. I have turned my eyes towards the future and to Jesus. I'm thankful for all the people I learned to know in tbs/gg. I wish them well.

[rjfernalld]

I do understand what you are saying, Boss. I know the point you are making. But there is a difference between us, an important difference: we were a part of this cult and participated in it for years, and you, although affected by it, were never a part of the indoctrination process.

This means that although you can see it for what it is, you didn't have to recover who you are from what the place made you...I was not the person I used to be once I experienced the mind control, the lies and all that garbage once I left. I was betrayed, and somewhat shattered...my spirit was deeply wounded and I found that I had no recognizable comforting God to turn to...the God Carl taught us to believe in wasn't very comforting.

I had to begin all over again to find that real God who could heal that crying child in me, the real Roberta who had somehow been invaded by someone else's warped and abusive ideas.

It took some time. My husband, who I met and married while in the cult also was going through all this at the same time. It was a bit of an ordeal to recover...our marriage nearly didn't survive. So when I say that God gave us beauty for ashes, and that we eventually began to see how the real God could show us the positives of this bad experience, I say that because it is how the healing came.

Does that mean I am not <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>*d off about this awful cult and what it does to people? NO WAY...of course I am furious about what happens to the kids, the women and all who are abused by this place, I think everyone knows how I feel. But many have had to let go of that anger in order to adequately heal and function day to day.

Everyone reacts differently, everyone who recovers isn't able to be a strong advocate...but some of us are and it looks like we have done a damn*ed good job of shaking GGWO up. I still have hope that more people can be returned to the real God out here in the real world and that more kids can be saved from the horrific life of molestation they suffer.

We love your fire and your dedication to this cause Boss, and I mean that with my whole heart. I can only hope that maybe something I have said here will help you to understand where some of us are comeing from....*hug*

[cordell]

Will the last one to leave please turn off the firkin' lights...

[guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner]

I came in as a young person to serve God. He PROTECTED me even though I made a bad decision in the group I joined. When I saw what really was going on I left (with very little knowledge of how ugly things really were) I left. So, I would say He was faithful to get me out and I found a better place. So, read Psalm 139 and I think that is a good starting place..we made our bed in hell, we took the wings of the morning but HE never forsook us. He is a patient Father.