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cordell
09-16-2006, 05:14 PM
<font color="0000ff">But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him...For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise... For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.
From 2 Cor. 11

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
From Galatians 1</font>

In light of these passages, how ought those who hold to another gospel which preaches another gospel be treated? Paul says "let them be accursed". Put that in modern day terminology, 'Let them be damned by God.' (FactNet's infamous red dots appeared on my first attempt) Plain and simple.

There is the Jesus revealed in Scripture who is missed altogether by cults and many who pass themselves off as 'evangelical' Christians. Christianity and gnosticism are incompatible. Christianity and mysticism are incompatible. Christianity and legalism are incompatible. When these 'isms' are mixed in with the gospel another Jesus emerges. This Jesus cannot save, heal, redeem or guide.

Getting it right, doctrine, theology, sytematics, exegesis--all these things are very important indeed. But they are not an end in and of themselves, they must lead us to the real Jesus, the Christ of the Bible. If there is a Beezlebub for the religious, it is this tendency to depart from the real Christ.

During the Reformation a slogan emerged: Semper Reformanda--always reforming. This did not mean "always being brought up to date and made more palatable to your average man on the street". It means always returning to Scripture, to grace, to faith, to do all things for His glory, to Christ. It is a slogan that recognizes our tendency to slide away from our first love--we are prone to leave Him, prone to wander away. Sheep is an adequate metaphor. We look for greener grass, brighter light. Our ears itch for some new thing, something to make us go 'Wow'.

Christ is immutable, he is forever the same, incapable of change. If that were spoken of a human being it would be a most boring trait, but in the Lord it is our ultimate assurance. Toward us, He never changes. Woe to them who would deceive one of these little ones, said Christ, it would be better for them if a millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

If someone were coming into your house to steal away the affection of the ones you love most, how would you react? Would you be 'polite and loving' toward the intruder? Would your idea of Christian humility and gentleness overtake you so that you brought out the tea and scones for a sweet little visit?

Intruders and offenders of the real gospel are not always dressed like the hamburglar--with hat, mask and black and white stripes. They look often like angels, don't they? Could you say with the apostle that they should be accursed?

Damned and castrated?

Or would you break out the best periwinkle china teacups?

cordell
09-17-2006, 03:34 AM
This (http://www.carlstevens.org/subpage84.html) was recently posted on www.carlstevens.org (http://www.carlstevens.org)
and it sounds like Tom and the boys are trying to make it sound like, "Hey, we've turned over a new leaf and we're normal now!"

<font color="0000ff">The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.</font>

dancer
09-17-2006, 04:29 AM
Being one who is openly marked by GGWO including tactics to hurt me against my own children and wife I want to vomit a the suggestion that for one moment GGWO would ever live by even some of these ideas. I bet Butch love some of the comments about church authority.

Mike Marr was one of the writers of this? Heck he doesn't return any phone calls, including people he does not know that wanted to give him a real chance to respond. I am one of those who believe dialog actually works, it might take a life time but it often works.

The operations of GGWO when challanged are not about bringing Glory to God, but to hinder the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Can you hide this light under a tree that is our Lord. The true Gospel? Does the world need to not know the truth of what has happened at GGWO?

The families, especially the children, how about the guys who gave up and took their own lives over the garbage that took place at GGWO/TBS? Just loosers who deserve to die? Those who challaned GGWO deserve to be labeled as sinners who should be disconnected from fellowship? How sad have we become. The idea they wrote something like this with so much information that tries to refute what is known about the ministry is almost obvious.

I came that they may have life...

Where is Jesus in the actions of this church? Where is the light of the Lord? Where is the hope that is Christ? It is not in making statements that don't even line up with their actions.I say if anything this draft shows how OFF this church is. Why as a church does GGWO need to write something like this?

God is not to be mocked. I know Mike Marr studied the church fathers and he is a student of history. Mike do you think Gods hand is blessing this ministry? From the days before the Baltimore Sun article I can hear you promising to do right by these families, that your church would, and that your efforts would win out for those who have been hurt. Put your pen away. Seek out the heart of God and take some d-a-m-n actions not empy promises. Will you stand before the ultimate judge and say I tried to do right by writing and like Lord? Mike you should take your wife and leave, you should seperate yourself from any group that would encourage families to seperate.

I am saddened to learn even this week that some men who I even liked at some point were helping a church in Delaware that has been involved in covering up a rape.

New Leaf? How sad to read this. How sad to know nothing changes but to get worse.

bjerwin
09-17-2006, 11:19 AM
Very interesting Jim.

And dancer, truly haven't you learned that what they preach and what they practice are two separate issues?

sidethorn
09-17-2006, 04:35 PM
The GGWO inner circle is trying to cover their back sides and discredit their critics. They must be worried about the exposure of GGWO if they're putting out this letter. Of course the words of this letter mean nothing with GGWO's leadership consistantly refusing to practice what it preaches for decades. The hypocrisy goes on.

(Message edited by sidethorn on September 17, 2006)

david_munson
09-17-2006, 05:44 PM
<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Yes the hypocrisy does go on even after the Lord has made it plain and clear that He is dealing with GGWO and it's "Way that seemeth right but leads to death."

GGWO, the Lord ain't done with you and your human pride driven resistance to Biblical correction.
Neither is He done dealing with your "Best seats Pharisee mentality" towards other members of the body.

The Lord still weeps.

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kupski
09-18-2006, 03:17 PM
Let me get this correct Dancer...someone is being told to seperate from their wife ! H.S.!

Only a fool would listen to that councel ! That man should pack up and move himself and his family out of that place a.s.a.p. !

Dont these self righteous a** clowns realize that it is God who will or will not ?

Marriage is a contract between the two. There is no mention of any pastor being in the decsion making of a divorce....

JUST GROSS...MAKES ME MAD....http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif