One Personbs Story

[Dave Carson (65.234.187.232)]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/3231.html?1094813181#POST79379

Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 10:10 am
Dave Carson,

I know it can be a lot of trouble, but would you care to expand your story and post it here?

You were deeply in this ministry and invested a lot as well. I know that a lot of people here, like me, would like to hear more of your story so we more fully understand how someone can get pulled into this ministry and how someone who was deeply imbedded comes to make the hard decision to get out.

More importantly, your story may help those who are "on the fence" right now and are looking for one more bit of evidence that they are are in a sick ministry and that there is life beyond GGWO.

I learned a lot this weekend speaking to some former GGWO people. They are among the most intelligent, well adjusted and up-beat people I know, yet they spent significant parts of their lives involved in an organization that they now recognize as the cult it is. It cleared up a lot of the questions I had. Dave, maybe your story will do the same.

Love,

Boss Martian

OK Boss - Ivan is passing us by, apparently. Everyone here on the west coast of Florida has been watching the storm with a lot of agitation. We're all worn out. The good thing about it all is that I have a day off. So in between doing stuff around the house and keeping our son on track with his school work, I'll tell my story...

[Dave Carson (65.234.189.104)]

I "met the ministry" in January 1984. John Cirlingione (be nice everybody!) had been attending for awhile and trying to get me to come. We were old friends from high school and had been through several "phases" (you know, those things you have that drive your parents crazy) together.

My family had moved to St. Pete in 1974. My dad was a career Army officer, so we moved almost every year. He also spent 3 years overseas and was away constantly because his primary duty was as a pilot. From this background I had developed a strong sense of order and duty and a love of travel and adventure. I could also adapt to changing situations well, but was always something of an outsider. My family also experienced the devastating effects of alcoholism, which left me accustomed to secrecy and covering for people.

I had been saved at 12, but drifted into rebellion during my teen years. Through a long series of events, including a motorcycle accident in 1979, I had returned to the Lord. While attending a small Baptist church in 1981, I felt called to missionary service. Unfortunately, I also stupidly entered into a marriage which went downhill from the beginning and was in its final months when I found the TBS church in St. Pete.

So I came into the church feeling condemned for having blown it as a missionary and felt that God had given up on me. I was also disappointed with my old church for some really bad counseling my wife and I had received. The only reason I walked through the door was that a friend of John and I was getting married there that day.

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.243)]

The wedding ceremony took place after the Sunday AM service. Pastor Mike Erwin preached about "A New Beginning With God" and I felt as though he was preaching to me. It was a grace message and it encouraged me like nothing I had heard in a long time. I told him afterwards that I would be back and I did that night. From then on I was at pretty much every service and also went to a Bible study Chris MacFarland did. He was teaching from a non-TBS book on positional truth which squared with everything I had learned from the Baptist church.

I was attracted to the "branch" ministry by the quality of the teaching and the heartfelt acceptance of the people. The other factor was their dedication to spreading the Gospel in a very real way. Having a military background and being a fairly analytical person (I was studying engineering at the time and designing and testing aircraft components), it didn't take me long to see that the logical outcome of believing in Christ was fulfilling the Great Commission and these folks went out of their way to do that, as small as the church was.

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.243)]

At the time I came into the St. Pete church, there was little TBS lingo or teaching. We later had videos of CHS classes from Lenox. He seemed a little strange to me, but it didn't matter much as I was getting a lot of support from the people around me.

As soon as I started going to the church, my marriage deteriorated more rapidly. She wasn't against the church, just against taking Christ seriously in general. I had already been counseled earlier to pretty much regulate my life according to her fears and things just got worse. The attitude of the leadership at TBS was that I was making right decisions by being committed. It's funny how they never really were interested in trying to work things out between us, but neither was she. She left a few months later.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

she was probably smart to leave before she got all engrossed

[Dave Carson (65.234.189.8)]

I guess so, 205, because she ended up in a cycle of recurrent psychiatric care that may still be going on today. Wouldn't have survived the cult. But I digress.

While there was a lot of pain, there was a lot of joy as well. The church had many folks about my age at the time, including:

John Cirlingione
Jack Byers
Marcia (Carr) Merriman
Dina Glen
Steve Schneiderman
Wendy Gee

We did bus ministry and outreach together and eventually all went to Lenox within about a year of each other.

Why did I go to Lenox? At the time I had a great job and had just won a full scholarship to any state university I wanted to attend in Florida. I did go for a semester to the University of South Florida, but my heart just wasn't in it. The divorce had left me empty and hurting and the church was not real big on "worldly" knowledge. I did want to study the Bible for my own healing and just in case God ever did decide to use me as a missionary. So, much to my parents' consternation, I packed up and left for New England in June 1985.

[Anonymous (68.33.132.7)]

Thanks for your story so far, Dave.

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the rest.

Boss Martian

SUNDAY SUNDAY! Under the lights at FACTnet Motorspeedway! You'll pay for the whole seat, but you'll only need the edge, edge, edge!!!!!

[Dave Carson (65.234.187.220)]

Arriving in Lenox was like coming to the Promised Land. I think I mentioned in another post somewhere, Roberta's husband, Scott, and some other guys (John Von Buchwald & Ed Dickerson) had been praying for me to come to Bible school because they had heard I was interested in Turkey. My family had spent 2 years there when I was a teen and that was the place that the Lord had laid on my heart. We met everyday at the dugout on the softball field and prayed. We actually made a trip to Turkey and some surrounding countries at the end of that year.

I became a "disciple" of Thomas Schaller from the beginning. CHS always had a crowd of "old timers" around him and I was the type of person who stayed camouflaged on the fringes as a habit anyway (so if anyone is waiting for juicy insider revelations I really don't have any). I admired his "relaxed audacity". One day after class during my first week of school, he pulled up next to me in a van full of people and said, "Do you want to win souls?" When I asked where they were going, he just answered "Get in the van," so I did and we went to Worcester for evangelism and a Bible study. Got back just in time to go to work on the night shift cleaning the campus. There were a lot of sleepless days back then, but I was young and wanted to change the world.

Working on the night crew was a blast. that's how I got to know such crazy people as Bruce Graham and Brian Williams. One night just before convention, Brian tossed a small stone at a skunk that blocked the front door at the main building. He accidently killed it and stunk up the whole place!

[Anonymous (216.183.184.253)]

Keep talkin Dave...
I'm listeining..

[Anonymous (152.163.101.13)]

you can't stop now. please tell us more.

[Dave Carson (207.156.7.90)]

Not to worry, I'll post some more over the weekend.

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.59)]

The time in Lenox was a busy one. Besides Bible school, I ended up working in Ed Canino's office as an assistant on the "Berkshire Chapel" construction project. For about 9 months I lived in that building, working there during the day, going to class at night, and sleeping in various areas of the project to keep an eye on the site at night (there was a big hole in the wall, so anyone could have walked in). I didn't have to pay rent and it was an adventure, especially during the winter. I did drafting, surveying, driving a truck to different places in New England to pick up supplies, or digging a ditch - whatever was needed to keep things moving. Barry Quirk and I called ourselves the "project slaves," but we laughed a lot in our tiredness. Ed was a great person to work for. To this day when someone asks me what I think of something, I often rub my chin and say "That's interesting," like Ed did. I remember working like mad the final night before the chapel opened, fueled to a frenzy by Finnish coffee to which Matti Sirvio had introduced me.

The reason I mention all these things is to illustrate the great sense of urgency, sacrifice, and mission we experienced in those days. Such an atmosphere is compelling and exciting and helps hide the more subtle indications of problems the group might be facing.

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.59)]

After the chapel was done I ended up living at Merrywood, an old music school about a mile down the road from the campus. I thought of it as kind of a "cave of Adullam" place, where guys who weren't taking classes for financial reasons or whatever ended up. I lived there mainly because I didn't want to go back to dorm life. I was a little older than the typical Bible school student, had done my time in the Navy, and have always been a bit of a rebel. I could be a nice boy for a while and have some kid checking my dorm job, but it got tiresome.

The Merrywood crowd was an interesting bunch. Some were construction guys I'd known on the chapel job like Bob Wiggin. Some really wanted to live in a dorm, but couldn't afford it. There were a lot of good men there - Tom Morton was my roommate and I think I drove the poor guy crazy. Guy Singletary was a good friend. Wayne Sears and I had known each other from St. Pete. Bill Luchkiw showed up from the Pittsburgh ministry.

One incident that got my attention involved a guy named Rick. He had come from Pittsburgh for Bible school and we soon learned he was schizophrenic. After listening to a particularly rousing series of messages on faith, he decided to quit taking his medicine. I don't know how the leadership found out, but Daniel Lewis showed up one day and put Rick on a bus back home. The explanation was that it was to protect the ministry, which I really could not dispute. This happened about the same time that John MacArthur's church was being sued for malpractice because a man under their care committed suicide. I guess they had learned a little since the Berwick days Jim Faucett described in his story.

[Christine (70.17.221.212)]

Looking forward to hearing more!!

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.59)]

While life went on, the Dovydenas case had been making its way through the courts. I didn't pay much attention to it. Some of the headlines in the Beagle seemed to me to be patently sensationalistic and I didn't have a high opinion of the Fourth Estate to begin with, so I did as I was told and ignored the stories.

As a last resort, I ended up working at Avalon/Hillcrest. Anyone who was in Lenox would know why I didn't want to go there when construction work dried up in the winter. I had been hearing some pretty wild tales from guys like Vinnie Miniciello (hope I spelled it right), who had a gift for telling stories http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif. Living across the street, I occasionally heard the strange sounds from the residents. When it became a question of working there being the only way I could eat, then I dragged myself across the street arguing with God every step of the way. It turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened to me.

I spent 6 months there on the day shift, so I was working mostly with "non-Body" people. Being a Beaker, I worked hard and got along well with my supervisor. For privacy reasons and just plain decency, I won't describe the clients with whom I worked, but they were a challenge. My supervisor filled in on our team on an especially rough day and at the end of the shift christened me the "Captain of the Hell Zone." While the work was hard and I had to always be on my toes, the Lord taught me so much there about loving people who had absolutely no capacity to love me back. I also got to know some pretty good folks like Dave Drago there.

During spring break I had come back down to St. Pete for a week and spent most of it on La Gracia, where I first met Jim Kennedy. This was at the height of the Dovydenas controversy and there was a fear that Betsy's minions would plant drugs on the ship or attempt to have it seized. They were short on crew members at the time, so I spent the week chipping and painting during the day and standing guard at night. It was on one of those nights that I first heard the news on the radio about the fall of Jim Bakker. While I was not impressed by televangelists and thought they were generally a waste of time, my heart broke for the testimony of Christ and I wept there alone on the bridge in the dark.

[Bob Brinton (151.203.159.87)]

Dave, Your mention of schizophrenia and suicide stirs me. One of the ex-Beakers who stayed in the Berkshires following the exodus to Baltimore was schizo and ended up taking his life. I studied mental illnesses for a few months in a NAMI program, after learning they thought my nephew was bipolar. A very large proportion of the homeless are schizophrenics. It's so very sad. Jesus wants to reach out to these poor people; but it needs to be done very carefully by those who are called to it.

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.59)]

Returning to Lenox, my heart remained on La Gracia. The ship had interested me since I first visited it in Ft. Pierce before I went to Bible school. Working with Ed Canino and hearing all the ship news as it came into the office only made things worse. While I had joined the Navy to go to sea and see the world, most of my time was spent in Orlando and Idaho and the motorcycle accident kept me from going to the fleet. During my time on the ship I had seen a real need for improvements to the electrical system and documentation of all the changes that had been made over the years by volunteer electricians with widely varying skills, so I asked Ed if he could use me.

As I made preparations to leave in June 1987, there were many who questioned my decision. How could I leave my Bible school training (I was only going for a year) and the "anointed covering" of Home Base? I didn't quite understand it myself, since I was sure the Lord wanted me to go to the Turkic peoples. The answer came from the Holy Spirit one night as I read Psalm 139. He assured me that:

"If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me"

That was enough for me. I'm not charismatic and don't spend much time looking for feelings of being led, but that word in a still small voice as I read the Bible did the trick.

The questions of others were all silenced as we gathered for a "special meeting" at the Berkshire Chapel. Many of you remember that time, as the leadership announced we would be leaving the campus to Betsy. Somebody asked about La Gracia and my heart fell as we were told that the ship would be given up as well.

The silence as we walked out was deafening. We didn't know how to talk about such things because we had been taught not to. In my own questioning the only thing I knew was that I had made a commitment to go to the ship, so that's where I would go.

The day after the final church service, I put the Beagle with the headline "Bible Speaks Leaving Lenox" in the rear window of my car like a sign, shook the dust off my feet, and started the long drive to Florida.

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.59)]

The last voyage of La Gracia took about 5 weeks and it was a special gift from God to me. I met the ship in the Cayman Islands. The crew was an interesting blend of believers from a variety of spiritual backgrounds. Glen Galtere, from the charismatic church in George Town, was the captain. Last I heard he and his wife were missionaries in Botswana. John Collins was the pastor. He provided level-headed leadership in a stressful time and his wife, Colleen, was always a gracious person. Jim Kennedy was first mate. He taught me a lot about seamanship and became a good friend on that trip. There were others from different churches in the Caymans and the U.S.

Our mission was to collect and transport hurricane relief supplies from the Caymans to Jamaica. Since the ship was going to Betsy, we really didn't have to worry about maintenance and had time for fun. We could swim in the clear waters of George Town harbor and snorkeled to reefs and wrecks.

The trip to Jamaica was uneventful. I especially loved standing watch in the middle of the night as we were underway, seeing the stars and meteors, thunderheads flashing lightning in the distance, the lights of Montego Bay, and the sparkling phosphorescence of the wake. We spent about 10 days in Port Antonio with Wayne Goldsworthy, helping him with children's ministry, evangelism, and cleaning and painting a hospital for the poor. It certainly wasn't the Jamaica you see in the travel office posters, but it was beautiful.

After sailing back to George Town, where we left most of the crew, we took the ship to Tampa and turned her over to the court. The last time I saw her she was beached in the mud in a forgotten corner of a busy shipyard, listing a little as the tide went out.

To understand why I would stay in the "ministry" after such a great disappointment, you need to understand how much I value both a world-changing mission and unique experiences like my time on La Gracia. The ship ministry was a valuable ministry which brought together believers from many churches to do real good in some desperately needy areas. I could see visible "fruit" (something that was always stressed from the pulpit). I had not yet learned to look for the less readily apparent fruit of God's work in the spiritual growth of individuals. Also, as I stated at the beginning of this story, I love adventure. One of the neatest things I ever did was ride a Harley from Florida to Idaho, loving every moment of the wildness and the risk (my poor parents worried every mile of the way). To me this was real Christianity, doing right and taking risks for God, and it stood in stark contrast to what I'd seen in most churches, where the main goal of most was to be "nice" people.

After buying the new Tom Clancy novel and reading it cover-to-cover straight through (another of my unfortunate addictions), I packed up once more and headed for Baltimore.

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.23)]

Life in Baltimore in the early days was also exciting. I'm sure many remember "church on the run," where we often didn't know where the next service would be. It was strange to not see people like Jack Leonard and other leaders there. Nobody ever talked about what had happened and I figured they had gone on with ministry in other places. I do remember one night outside the Teamsters hall unexpectedly seeing John Lloyd and Shaun Redgate hurry in just before services with concerned expressions on their faces, generally avoiding the warm greetings they were receiving. I knew something was wrong, but people could disagree and go on with God. Sensitivity to power politics in church never having been one of my strengths, I forgot about it and plunged into the new routines of urban ministry.

Much of my goal in life in former days had been to get as far away as I could from cities. My dream was to live in the middle of nowhere in Idaho, but God had other ideas. Going to the high rise projects was an unexpected blessing, something I never would have done on my own. My favorite ministry was evangelism in Washington with Jim Kennedy and a small team. I loved the history and the presence of people from all over the world on the street. I had experienced a limited taste of missionary leadership on La Gracia and began to believe that maybe I would be a pastor someday as well, so I spent as much time as I could with Tom Schaller and Daniel Lewis to learn what I could from them.

Outi and I started seeing each other not too long after the move to Baltimore. I was always in the book store early before classes and she captured my heart with coffee and conversation. We were engaged in the summer of 1988 and decided to marry after graduation of 1989. One strange happening before our engagement was a conversation with Lewis one night in which he tried to talk me out of pursuing a relationship with Outi (before we had gotten serious). He didn't say why and didn't press the issue, so I forgot it and went on. It would have taken a whole lot more than him to change my mind http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

[Dave Carson (65.234.189.148)]

For any readers, sorry to leave this story hangning. Got a big test this week and have to get ready for that. Will continue this weekend...

[Anonymous (216.183.184.253)]

???

[Anonymous (216.183.184.253)]

Dave,

I understand that Dan Lewis always discouraged marriage between U.S. Citizens and non U.S. Citizens.
This was known back in the days of the Lenox ministry.
I think it was motivated from the idea of a "foreigner" drawing a natual born citizen away to a distant land where they would be more likely to stray permanently from "home base".
Nothing personal just Cultish paranoia.

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

Paul Bono didn't have any trouble going against Lewis in this for that dazzling Finnish blonde.

[Anonymous (212.38.225.13)]

Thanks Dave.

[Anonymous (131.207.157.217)]

I'm very eager to hear the rest of your story, Dave. Please!

[Anonymous (67.243.240.134)]

Where have you gone Dave Carson ?

[Anonymous (64.12.112.156)]

Yes, Where are you Dave?

[Dave Carson (67.210.237.149)]

Will be back soon.

[Anonymous (212.38.225.65)]

Kiitos Dave.

[Dave Carson (4.14.210.50)]

Sorry to keep any readers hanging for so long. There were a variety of reasons for my absence. The first was hurricane fatigue. It's amazing how tired one feels after weeks of gazing upon approaching doom. Frances and Jeanne were the worst for us, with no serious damage and one power outage for 12 hours.

I've also been taking a statistics class, the first math class I've done in 20 years. Because I have a test coming up, I won't be writing much today. Another factor has been the general slowness and unreliability of our dial-up connection since we moved during the summer. Getting here became a real chore and what few posts I did were mainly during breaks at work. We now have wonderful DSL and our internet life has gotten much easier.

Finally, it's just plain harder to write about the incidents that caused us to leave GGWO. I've had to go through a lot of memories and decide how to "put them on paper." I want to be factual, yet protect the innocent. I do want people to see God's hand in it all, as I have personally, and know that there is always hope in Christ and in His Word in the midst of the darkness:

PS 56:1 Be merciful unto me, O God: for man would swallow me up; he fighting daily oppresseth me.
2 Mine enemies would daily swallow me up: for they be many that fight against me, O thou most High.
3 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee.
4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me. 5 Every day they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil.
6 They gather themselves together, they hide themselves, they mark my steps, when they wait for my soul.
7 Shall they escape by iniquity? in thine anger cast down the people, O God.
8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
9 When I cry unto thee, then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God is for me.
10 In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word.
11 In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me.
12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee.
13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

As usual, anyone who desires to reach me an do so at minutus@gte.net . This address will be changing soon and I'll let you know the particulars when it does.

[Dave Carson (4.14.210.50)]

Outi and I married after graduation in 1989. Our desire was to be involved with missions from the beginning. I had majored in that subject with the express purpose of planting a church among Muslims in the Turkic world, which includes a wide swath from the Balkans to Western China. Almost all of the "'Stans" you hear about in the news are primarily composed of Turkic people groups who speak related languages and originally migrated from the Ural-Altay region of Russia near the Mongolian border.

We didn't really know how to go about getting to the mission field and wondered if we needed some practical church experience before going to the ends of the earth, so we prayed that if the Lord wanted to direct us, He would do so through the GGWO leadership. We had considered Florida, because that's where I was from, and Sweden, because I had a good relationship with Pastor Matti and a lot of respect for him as a missionary. It was rather interesting when Tom Schaller came to me a couple of days later and asked if we would pray about going to Turku, Finland, to work with Pastor Jorma Immonen.

Several factors led us to say "yes." Outi was pregnant with our son and was more comfortable with the Finnish medical system. I had been intrigued with Finland since junior high school, when I had first studied the Winter War. Being able to actually go to Finland was not something I had ever planned, but it was a special blessing from a God who gives us the desires of our hearts. Two months after being asked, we got on the plane and headed off to Turku.

[minutus (minutus)]

Just checking out the new system.

Dave

[minutus (minutus)]

One thing I forgot to mention in the last post was a conversation I had at that time with a friend that struck me as odd. I was strongly encouraged to stay in Baltimore instead of going to the mission field for the purpose of "staying under Pastor in humility." With a world of lost people on one hand and plenty of CHS groupies to keep Baltimore going on the other, I knew where my priorities lay. Even then I was beginning to sense a disconnect between what was preached and what was practiced. I could only answer for my own response to the call on my life, not what others did, so I disregarded my friend's earnest admonition and went to Finland.

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Why the fancy nickname Dave? Don't you like the one your parents gave you?

[minutus (minutus)]

I tried registering with my name from my home e-mail address and it wouldn't work. I tried later from work and picked something different to keep the registration program from getting confused and this one went through. I'll try it with my name from work next week. There's a prize for anyone who can figure where the name Minutus came from. Hint: it's a literary reference.

[jim_faucett (jim_faucett)]

The Roman: The Memoirs of Minutus Lausus Manilianus, Who Has Won the Insignia of a Triumph, Who Has the Rank of Consul, Who Is Chairman of the Priest

A fly on the wall.

[minutus (minutus)]

You get the prize, Jim! I'll give you your meany cloud back http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif. The Roman is a great historical novel set during the reign of Nero. Minutus is an almost Forrest Gump-like character who just happens to be at the right place at the right time to witness the pivotal events behind the persecution of the Christians. The thing that always intrigued me about the book was the original Finnish title, which could be translated as Enemies of Humanity. Not much has changed in 2,000 years. It is the sequel to The Secret of the Kingdom, which details the spread of the early church after the resurrection of Christ through the investigations of a Roman centurion.

I heartily recommend the writings of the author of these books, Mika Waltari. His historical novels cover events from the ancient Etruscans and Incans through the Fall of Constsntinople to the Turks, always exploring the effect of religion on history.

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/mwaltari.htm

[minutus (minutus)]

"In believing that you can shake off the past like an old prejudice and set yourself up as the standard by which all things are to measured, you are forging worse fetters for yourself than anyone has ever borne before you."

Mika Waltari, in
Johannes Angelos (Johnny Angel)

[minutus (minutus)]

Ministry in Turku, Finland was a blessing in many ways. The people in the church were always so kind to Outi and me. We arrived in February 1992 and my main responsibiities were visitation and a Bible study in the university village and a Bible study in the nearby town of Salo (home of the world famous Eija Vanhanen.) I saw myself functioning as Pastor Jorma Immonen's armor-bearer, encouraging him in the battle and ready to climb any hill. We had a lot of laughs together as we did street evangelism, visitation, and travelled to Helsinki to teach in the Bible school there.

Outi received a stipend from the government for taking care of Tom. I worked part-time teaching English and also was paid to study Finnish as an immigrant, which gave me lots of opportunities to get to know other immigrants and refugees. The first foreigner I became friends with was an Iranian Azerbaijani refugee named Nader and I later had several other Azerbaijanis in my classes. They all wanted to practice English, as did some Vietnamese friends, so I got to spend time with them and learn more about their lives.

What was really funny was that I knew only two Americans in Finland, Brian Williams and a fellow from my class. Brian was a lot of fun back then and he let me have some of his special peanut butter stash when I came to Helsinki http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

[minutus (minutus)]

The church in Turku was a special place. Pastor Jorma had discipled a good group of young men and women, mostly from the university, who were bright, creative, funny, and energetic. They even made a video about a super-hero called Tract Man who drove a Russisn tractor through the streets of Turku and lobbed tract grenades into the dorm rooms of barricaded student hermits! The girls dressed up like angels and sang the Tract Man theme to the tune of the old "Batman" song while popping out from behind the statue of Michael Agricola (see links below) in front of the Turku cathedral (If any Turkulainens are reading this, send me a copy)!


http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/DAILYF/2003/04/daily-04-09-2003.shtml
http://www.turunseurakunnat.fi/portal/turun_tuomiokirkko/english/

[minutus (minutus)]

I've got to work on some other things, so I'll summarize my emotional state up to this point in the story. Life was good. There was adventure and excitement (and sometimes major frustration) in adjusting to a new culture. I loved being in Finland (my Finnish teacher once remarked that I was born in the wrong country.) Overcoming the challenges and growing in faith and confidence was deeply rewarding. Even my father, who could not understand at all why I would become a missionary instead of "getting my ticket punched" and settling down in the American Dream, expressed a grudging admiration for my audacity. Once again, I must emphasize how well the believers in Turku treated us. There was a lot of personal emotional satisfaction in being with them and getting to know them. To this day I would not trade that privilege for anything in the world.

[anon_for_ever (anon_for_ever)]

Dave, wanna tell us about Baku?

[minutus (minutus)]

First the cause of our moving to Baku. Things were going well, but as my understanding of Finnish got better, it seemed to me that the messages were getting heavier. Pastor Jorma was having health problems and they had an effect on his preaching. After awhile I asked Outi whether my impression of what I was hearing in Finnish was correct and she confirmed it. One morning as we drove to Helsinki, I asked Pastor Jorma about the tone of his messages and his reaction was that I was "not responding" to his messages and that it was not my place to question them. This was pretty shocking to me as I figured the primary person responsible to keep a pastor sharp would be his associate. I guess I got that wrong.

From then on things went downhill.

[minutus (minutus)]

Pastor Jorma began preaching a lot about "head knowledge" and commitment to delegated authority. I kind of felt like David having spears chucked at him. My own response was to magnify grace by teaching on Galatians. For some reason that seemed to cause an intensification of the conflict.

At some point in the process I had called Daniel Lewis and asked his advice. He told me to be supportive and hang in there and that there was not a lot Baltimore could do. He came to Turku not long after that and basically agreed with our evaluation, but preached a lot about "supporting God's man." A few weeks later Tom Schaller did the same thing and some of his private remarks left me with the impression that he thought I was trying to umdermine Pastor Jorma. It's funny how during the whole affair no one ever spoke candidly about what was happening and addressed the issue head on. It was like in the old Soviet Union how people had to get to the truth by reading between the lines.

We began to feel it was time to move on.

[terra_cognita (terra_cognita)]

Dave, Your post reveals the weaknesses of GGWO and their doctrinal problems with grace, one pastor/teacher and delegated authority. Since you were an assistant and communicated with homebase, it had to be checked out. At homebase, CHS issues derogatory comments towards the Turku pastor but couching it in the context that he has a sickness. CHS always believes what he hears from someone who has previously been from homebase, and will make this ejaculatory response before checking out the facts. One of two things will then happen. Either Lewis or Schaller is called in to check things out. Since you contacted Lewis, Lewis has to go. Lewis wouldn't involve Schaller at this point because of his jealousy toward him. He knows this is risky because Schaller is the Apostle of Finland. But he strongly believes he has the inside road to dealing with problems in GGWO. So when Lewis arrives nothing conclusive occurs because their wrong intrepretation of grace, P/T, and delegated authority doesn't permit them to. But now you are suspect and the pastor in Turku is suspect. Schaller catches wind that Lewis was in his territory, (he is just as jealous) and has to intervene. Their reports back to CHS aren't the same because they are vying to "be in the know", "have the best knowledge of what is going on" and "know what is best for the situation". CHS takes all of that and presents in raps, teachings, etc. an imperfect picture of what is happening. In the end, you are slighted, the pastor in Turku is slighted. When the pastor's sickness gets worse, then CHS will use it to his advantage to elevate what a compassionate, loving pastor he is. At the same time he gives enough digs toward him that one doesn't know what to think. The only thing one can think is that these people are weak or off. Thank God we have CHS who knows the truth!

[minutus (minutus)]

Yes we were weak and we should have been strengthening each other in the Lord through speaking the truth in love and bearing each other's burdens. Instead there was pointless strife because of a fatally flawed doctrine of authority and the fear of transparency. I loved Pastor Jorma then and now and I am always grateful for the good experiences we had. Interpersonal conflicts are the number one cause of missionary attrition in any ministry and GGWO personalities and teaching made it worse. That's what gets me steamed.

[minutus (minutus)]

Terra, did the chain of events you describe actually happen or are you speaking of the way things typically go in "the ministry?" It would be interesting to have seen what was going on behind the scenes on the other side of the pond.

[terra_cognita (terra_cognita)]

It was a general synopsis of how it actually happened. At the same time, it is the typical way things go.

[minutus (minutus)]

I had met Pastor Vladik at the Prague conference in 1991 and we really hit it off, riding the metro from the "cheap" hotel for non-Americans to the conference center. When I heard he and Pastor Matti were looking for help with starting a Bible school in Baku, the Holy Spirit hit me upside the head and reminded me of my desire to take the Gospel to Turkic peoples. It was funny that only a few years before while looking at a National Geographic story on the Turkic peoples in the USSR I had thought how cool it would be to go there, then shook my head and said, "That'll never happen." The finger of God had touched history once again and the walls were coming down before my unbelieving eyes. So I made arrangements to travel to Baku for the first summer Bible school to be held there in August.

[minutus (minutus)]

The least expensive way to Baku from Finland was a 5-day trip by train via Leningrad and Kiev. I left on August 18th, sharing a compartment with a very pleasant Russian pediatric surgeon. While I had travelled in the Balkans and Eastern Europe, crossing the Soviet border felt like jaws were closing behind me. My contact picked me up at the station in Leningrad late at night and I turned in at the hotel for as much sleep as I could.

The next morning I stumbled out of bed and opened the Bible. The place where I was reading was Psalm 91, which describes God's protection of his people no matter what. The words struck me so forcefully that I said out loud, "Okay, Lord, what's going to happen?" Like I wrote earlier, I don't usually do such things, but I felt that He was trying to get a point across. About that time Arto Nousiainen, my travelling companion, stuck his head in the door and said, "We just heard from Finland that Gorbachev has been arrested and the Army is taking over." That word from the Lord was to be my comfort and motivation during the historical events of the next few days.

[minutus (minutus)]

We spent the day with the fledgling church in Leningrad, trying to find out what was happening. It was eerie to sit with the Russian believers and watch the commander of the Leningrad Military District reading a declaration of martial law. Despite that, we did see some demonstrators on the streets as we went to and fro, stopping at the Finnish Consulate for news. As the time to catch our train approached, we prayed and felt strongly that even if no one else made it to Baku, we would try to get there with the 12 cases of Bibles we were transporting. I handed a note to Outi to a westerner who was taking a train for Finland and would mail it for me once he got there and we boarded the train to Kiev with Andrei, our guide.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Dave,
After your encounter with the powers that be about the Pastor Jorma incident, did the beginning of the doubts begin? And if you had any doubts then were they dismissed somewhat in light of the distance from home base?

I ask because some GGWO mission fielders have told me that the sheer distance from the intrigues at homebase kept them relatively free from too many doubts as to the rightness/wrongness of the doctrine and Carl's misbehavior at home.

[minutus (minutus)]

Yeah, the doubts had crept in because I thought playing both sides against the other was not a very biblical way to handle conflict. One verse that spoke to me as I taught Galatians was 4:17:

They court you eagerly, but for no good purpose; they want to exclude you, so that you would seek them eagerly.

The whole GGWO emphasis on clinging to "Pastor" had never set well, and after going to a few conferences and watching the antics of Carl Stevens' Flying Circus I wanted to get as far away as possible (Baku) and still serve God in my missionary calling. I think there are some GGWO missionaries who feel this way. But I was seeing God work over there despite these things, so I soldiered on for a few more years.

[minutus (minutus)]

Reading your post again I have to add that I was not aware of intrigues beyond that which I personally experienced. To this day I am not an "office politics" kind of person.

I was disappointed at the way pastors gossiped when they got together. The hot topics were often who was "off" and the personal shortcomings of different men and women of God. Never having been a "rap artist" (I just had to say that), I attended such gatherings much less frequently as time went on (plus they really ate up our limited budget).

[minutus (minutus)]

It took two days to get to Kiev. Watching the events there now bring back memories of those uncertain days. There was no definite news of what was happening on the train, only rumors of troops moving on major cities, etc. I went to the new American consulate and they said I knew as much as they did, that some people had been killed in Moscow. We met a larger group from the church in Hungary and boarded the next train for Baku.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

Sorry to once more interrupt your story...I envy your having been in Kiev, always wanted to see it...do you think you'll go back to the continent as a missionary? I can't imagine you never going back, somehow. The increased terrorism aginst Americans must be a huge challenge for missions now.

I promise...no more questions *s* at least for now.

[minutus (minutus)]

I would like to return. Living here for the last twelve years often feels like exile. Terrorism doesn't bother me a lot because it's always been out there and people here generally didn't hear about it except for the spectacular cases. When my family was in Turkey it was a time of unrest and terrorism. Americans were being bombed and kidnapped. My mom witnessed a terrorist attack and we had a gun battle near our home a few hours later as soldiers were searching for the perpetrators. You just have to be more careful and trust God for the rest. Probably the biggest issues now are health-related. I don't think a "real" missions board would take us. I have been looking into some short-term opportunities both in Finland and in the Turkic world.

[minutus (minutus)]

P.S. - I don't mind questions at all, Roberta. Give Scott a hug from me.

[rjfernalld (rjfernalld)]

I certainly will give him a hug, Dave. He has you and Outi and Tom in his prayers. He still prays daily for the people of Turkey...he's never forgotten tham in all these years. I hope you can get back there....

[minutus (minutus)]

The two-day trip from Kiev to Baku was the train ride from hell. It got hotter the further south we went and most of the windows didn't open. This made for interesting smells from the WC, which could have been displayed alongside Andres Serrano in any modern art museum. We were in open compartments and I awoke a few times to find a new passenger sitting at the foot of my bed or roaches crawling in with me. The conductor was an ogre who freaked out whenever we gathered and especially when we sang or prayed. But we sweated and had fun anyway, getting to know the great variety of Soviet peoples who rode with us. It was interesting to pass through Grozny, which was already getting a bad reputation before the Chechen War had even started. We passed the "Holy Mountain" and made the turn onto the Apsheron Peninsula for the final leg into Baku. When we arrived at the station, Pastor Vladik met us with the joyous news that the coup had been defeated. A new day was dawning in the USSR and we were there to celebrate with the people as the "Evil Empire" crumbled.

[minutus (minutus)]

Baku was probably the seventh largest city in the USSR at that time. As the world's first "oil boom" city at the turn of the century, millionaires had come from the West and built mansions, schools, and an ornate opera house. The center of the city was a mix of West and East, with the old city still surrounded by a wall (I just saw the trailer for the new "War of the Worlds" and I believe there was a shot of the old city there.) As the Russian Empire fell in 1917, a democratic republic was founded there by modern-thinking Azerbaijanis. It was overrun by the Red Army in 1920 and brought into the "Fraternal Brotherhood of Socialist Peoples." Lenin needed the oil.

Azerbaijan provided most of the oil for the USSR and Baku was the center for petroleum technology development with many universities and industries. It was the target of Hitler's Army Group South and was only saved from conquest by the German defeat at Stalingrad. Another interesting bit of geography is that the fertile soils of tiny Azerbaijan provided 10% of the food for the USSR. There are tea and rose plantations, as well as amazing varieties of fruits, nuts, and vegetables.

The summer Bible school in Baku was a blast. One local paper ran a headline "The Evangelists Are Coming." Pastor Vladik was interviewed on local TV. The freedom at that time was exhilirating. We had services at Klub Dzherzhinskova, a Polish Catholic church that had been converted to a KGB theater. I was personally touched by the hunger for truth of people who had been kept in the dark for so long. That two weeks in Baku laid the foundation for a church that continues to thrive today despite official pressure.

[minutus (minutus)]

We stopped in Moscow for a few days to do rallies with CHS on the way back to Finland. I was tired and ready to get back to Outi and Tommy, so the atmosphere in Moscow appealed less to me, especially the "celebrity" entourage of people who came from Baltimore just to be in the videos as CHS preached and thousands (well, maybe hundreds) came forward. Crusade evangelism was going on all over the major cities of Russia and everybody and his brother who could get a plane ticket were coming over to hold meetings. No one was staying to make disciples, though.

After the final train ride to Finland, I came home and told Outi it looked like we would be moving to Baku.

[wildgrape (wildgrape)]

Hey David you need to get with the program and get the rest of your story posted! Your friends from GGWO are just being nice and waiting for the final instalments. But you know they are chomping at the bit for the rest of the story. Don't keep them in suspense any longer. Besides, they need something to read over the New Years weekend. So as your brother I am going to be the bad guy and prompt you to get with it!

Love you Dude http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

Happy Cult Free New Year to All

[minutus (minutus)]

The mention of Gail Kirby on another thread brought a story to mind about my adventures learning Finnish. I was blessed to be able to study the language for 6 months at the Turun Aikuiskoulutuskeskus (try saying that 5 times fast.) We has some great teachers, particularly one energetic young lady named Ilona, who taught us about Finnish culture. She was doing a lesson on the sauna (at my request, since I really enjoyed it) and asked what wood was used to make the interior of a sauna room. I thought I knew the answer, so I quickly looked in my handy red Finnish dictionary for the correct word and raised my hand to answer. This is where Gail Kirby comes in, because she had always told us in TEFL class to not let our students use dictionaries. I was about to find out why.

Ilona called on me and I proudly said to her "Narttu." Instead of the response I expected, her face grew red and she looked kind of flustered. Thinking maybe she hadn't heard me correctly, I said it again louder, "Narttu!" She looked like she would start gasping for air about this time and some of the other students asked me "What did you say to her?" Figuring something wasn't quite right, I hurriedly thumbed through my dictionary and saw, much to my horror, that I had looked at and said the word BELOW "birch," which was what I had intended as an answer. She knew English and realized what had happened at that point. We looked at each other and both burst out laughing uncontrollably for several minutes. The other students finally joined in as they got it.

From that time on Ilona called me Herra Koivu (Mr. Birch.) I ran into her and her Dolph Lundgren-looking boyfriend on the street a few weeks later. She introduced me as Herra Koivu and told him "He's the one who said that," but it was a big joke with them (whew!) I did pass that story along to Gail somewhere in the distant past. Next episode I'll tell about Kent Sutorius, Sauna Superman!

'Night All

[minutus (minutus)]

Kent came to Turku for a short visit with Fred Gordon. Since Pastor Jorma and I usually went for a sauna at the Uimahalli (public pool) on Monday mornings, we took them with us.

You've got to understand that sauna is a rich Finnish tradition in which almost everyone participates from birth. Monday mornings the only people in the sauna were usually retired guys, tough old birds who had been doing this all their lives. When they heard us speaking English, they decided to give a demonstration of how "manly men" did sauna, dumping lots of water on the stones to make assault waves of superheated steam that would roll over your body and drive you into the bench. It was the ultimate endurance test and guys trickled out of the room as the waves kept coming, especially the foreigners. I'm usually a sauna fanatic, but was fighting some kind of bug that morning and couldn't last as long as usual. I gave up and even Pastor Jorma eventually came out, but no matter how hard the home team tried, they could not make Kent budge. He sat stoically as though he had been born in the sauna until he was the "last man sitting." I'm sure the "Silent American" is a legend there even to this day http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

All kidding aside, I am eternally grateful for being able to know people like Kent and Gail as teachers and as friends. I pray the best for them as they move on with life.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

I talked to Gail today and sent your kind regards, Dave. She hopefully will join the forum soon. I also informed Kent you would be soon speaking of him and saunas .. his only comment was "I love saunas".. I guess he does..lol

[minutus (minutus)]

Thanks, Jeannie. It would be AWE.., er, well REALLY COOL to hear from them both.

[pekkap (pekkap)]

poikilois peirasmois

[minutus (minutus)]

There are many good memories of Finland and the people we knew there. I was thrilled to see the northern lights and moose, to stand alone in a snowy field under the darkly starlit sky, to feel the sharp crispness of the purple haze mornings in winter. Rolling in the snow after sauna. Midsummer's loooong day and swimming in cold lakes. Laughing with some of the funniest people I've ever met - Pastor Jorma, Juha Ojaniemi, Pentti Perttula, Petri Kastarinen and Matts Hagg. One day there will be a special section of worship before the throne of God for the Finns. I plan to visit and enjoy their company once again http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

Such were the thoughts that filled my mind as I made preparations to move to Baku. I was going first in January and Outi would bring Tommy later. When I told my English students what I was planning, one of them nearly spit his coffee out! The radio had been giving periodic updates on the war in Nagorno-Karabakh, so they were of the decided opinion that only a fool would leave the comforts of civilized society for such a place. I guess I was such a fool http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif. One the way home from our last tiny little Bible study in Salo, I pulled over to the side of the road and wept like a baby.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Minutus,

I am so glad this thread was brought back up, I had not read it before.

Really enjoy your postings on Baku. The Azeries are really special people.

Any reports on how they are doing under the new upsurge of Islamic control?

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[minutus (minutus)]

Ralph,

The Protestant churches in Azerbaijan have been under constant threat from the government, which wants to use an "approved" form of Islam to unify the people and prevent the rise of Wahhabist or radical Shia groups. Here's one example of recent pressure:

http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=487

Nevertheless, the Gospel goes forth.

[minutus (minutus)]

I also went forth in January of 1992, armed with as much stuff as I could carry (including a tiny portable washing machine a dear family had given us for Tom's diapers http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif.) Took the train to St. Petersburg and met Pastor Vladik for the long ride to Baku. We had a compartment full of GGWO Russian newspapers along for the ride, but it was a lot more pleasant and politically stable than the summer trip.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

Dave, 1992-93 is when we were in Russia. I traveled by train with the Russians to the Krakow conference in 1993. I can honestly say I have seen the worse bathrooms in the world after my time in Russia and Ukraine. Our train facilities flooded so one had to wear boots to venture in. The bathroom in Kiev train station consisted of two cement footprints and a hole in the ground. With a half door so you could face the line of babushkas observing....

Were you in Krakow also?

[boddah (boddah)]

i remember being on a train for three days on the way to st. petersberg, and we were all begging the conductor for hot water from the steam engine so we could wash our faces!

jeannie:
i haven't been in that bathroom in the kiev station, but it sounds (seriously) like this bathroom i have nightmares about.

minutus:
i think it was you who asked about my father, from budapest? if i've got the right person (sorry, long time since then) he remembers you very well and fondly. he doesn't use a computer and doesn't want to open up any of the old connections, it's kind of all or nothing for him. he did say he was glad i was here on factnet, though. he got worried because he amputated and went on, and i've spent ten years spitting venom over ggwo.

[minutus (minutus)]

Yes, boddah, I had asked about your father. I really hope to reconnect with him some day, as My experiences in GGWO gave me a heart for those who had "ridden the dirty trains" of missionary life and came home to patch up their lives. There were some rides, weren't there? My trip with Pastor Vladik was quite nice though. In the winter the smell wasn't so bad. Jeannie, we came back to the US later in 1992 and only spent a couple of weeks in Baltimore. As I'll relate soon, the Lord arranged for us to end up in Florida, where we've been to this day.

[minutus (minutus)]

Arriving in Baku in January was quite different from the summer. While the climate is dry, hard winds blow off the steppes across the Caspian Sea (Baku means "City of Winds".) I lived in a small apartment not far from the Gromovs and their younger son Anton was detailed to be my "shadow," keeping me out of trouble and interpreting. At that time he was fourteen, I think. I heard later he had a very effective prison ministry in St. Petersburg. I shall always be grateful for his walking with me through the shadowy streets.

Our arrival coincided with the second anniversary of the brutal storming of the city by Red Army troops after the massacre of resident Armenians in 1990. Thousands of them had fled with only their lives while Azerbaijanis were hounded out of Armenia. The Soviet troops had gunned down hundreds of people in the streets and passions still ran high two years later. Word was going round that at a certain signal, Russian residents would be murdered. Since I probably looked more Russian than Azerbaijani, that seemed to be quite a "welcome wagon."

[minutus (minutus)]

It was fascinating how matter of factly Pastor Vladik treated that news, but I guess it was just part of life in the ruins of the Soviet Empire. There really was no law at that time (and little more now.) The good part was that we were pretty much free to do what we wanted to do in growing the church and getting the Bible school started. Pastor Matti arrived a few days later and our first classes started with about 50 students total. The church was small and Russian in a sea of Muslim Azerbaijanis, but the pastors and the people had a heart for their neighbors

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Jeannie,

Thanks for the memories. Encountered some of those "two footprints and a hole" in Italy years ago.

Ralph
1Cor 15:10

[minutus (minutus)]

Just saw this from Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. Today is the anniversary of the events related above:

AZERBAIJAN MARKS 15TH ANNIVERSARY OF SOVIET INTERVENTION. Azerbaijan
observed a day of mourning on 21 January in memory of the estimated
134 people killed when Soviet authorities sent troops into Baku in
1990 to put an end to widespread protests and reprisals against the
city's ethnic Armenian population, Turan reported. Speaking on 18
January at a conference in Baku pegged to the anniversary, Shahin
Sayylov, who is chairman of the State Committee for Prisoners,
Hostages, and Missing Persons, blamed the intervention on "Armenian nationalists who had penetrated Soviet power structures," zerkalo.az
reported on 19 January. LF

[minutus (minutus)]

The Bible school was such a blessing. We met in the school building where Pastor Vladik's wife, Galina, was a librarian. Sometimes it was like an icebox, but the people were so warm. I taught Hebrews and Survey of Doctrine I, using Ryrie's Basic Theology. It was a challenge to condense the material and make it accessible for students who had mostly never read the Bible before. We gave each student a Bible, the first one for many. Some were not even believers at the time, but that was not a problem at all. There were a few Baptists, Orthodox, or Adventists, but most were from atheistic Russian, Azeri, Jewish or Armenian backgrounds. I still have the class picture we took and gaze into the smiling faces, amazed at the diversity and desire for God they had in such difficult times, every life a story in itself.

[minutus (minutus)]

The two pastors with whom I worked for six months, Matti and Vladik, are definitely some of the best missionaries in GGWO. P. Matti was focused and calm, bringing structure and progress to often chaotic situations. He spent hours with people daily and I think I saw him tire of that maybe once. We shared the apartment until Outi and Tommy came and it was a hopping place with food, talk, and guitar playing by Matti and Ilgar, a very talented sweet-mannered Azerbaijani musician and actor.

P. Vladik is the most joyful person I've ever met, even with the uncertain situation in Baku. He had far more to lose than either of us "foreigners" and I never saw him fret. He was always singing softly as we went about our business, dealing with the authorities or looking for meeting places.

Many nights we watched the worsening news from the war in the mountains, black and white pictures of rockets, artillery and tanks dueling over villages in Karabakh. Ministry in a nation at war, especially a Muslim country fighting a Christian one, required tact and sensitivity. Only once did someone actually criticize us. Everyone with whom we spoke asked our opinion of the war and most were touchingly thankful for our presence in a time of crisis. As one person said, "Thank you for bringing us words from God."

[minutus (minutus)]

Of course I did almost cause an "international incident." The apartment came with an old rusty water heater hanging over the tub, which made a loud "whoosh" when lit with a match. Because of the almost explosive nature of the sound, I nicknamed it "the Challenger" (P. Vladik and the Bible school folks got a kick out of that.) The procedure was to heat your water (when there was water http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif), and then shut it off. Unfortunately I let it run too long one day and was summoned to the door by loud, urgent knocking. Two of the old grandmothers downstairs were trying to tell me something. P. Vladik just happened by at the time and translated that the steam from the overheated "Challenger" was escaping through the faucets downstairs! I'm just glad no one was hurt and tried to be more careful about it from then on.

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

Yes minutus, we're supposed to minister to people, not scald them! I guess thats one way to meet someone.
Remember the LaGracia initiation: here, try to do a backflip off the rope. Everyone who tried it went headfirst into the water. I remember when we conned P.Goldworhty into trying it. JD conned me into diving off the superstructure once...my **** were sore for a week.
I was surprised to see you were a military brat, I am too, NAVY (did you catch the Army/Navy game this year? 42-10) It is true that the traveling bug never really goes away.
I got to go to Canuan Island this year on a camera install. It's in the Grenadines just north of Venezuala. It was great to be in the tropics again. It reminded me of Honduras, and of course Sierra Leone.

[minutus (minutus)]

Hey, Jim, why don't you come down to Florida and do some pelican fishing http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif?

I didn't see the Army-Navy game, but my nephew (a second-year cadet) came down for the Army-USF game in October. Army won and it was fun to bother my USF grad workmates. I root for both, having experienced both. But it is funny that my dad was glad I joined the Navy.

[minutus (minutus)]

February 26th will be another anniversary. When I met P. Vladik that morning in 1992, the first thing he said was that "something terrible" had happened. We watched on the television as they ran film taken from a helicopter flying near the village of Xocali. Bodies were scattered in the snow, civilians who had been machine-gunned as they fled advancing Armenian forces. Sorrow and fear were very real companions to our ministry in Baku.

http://azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/73_folder/73_articles/73_khojali.html

[minutus (minutus)]

Many thanks to those who have sent encouraging e-mails. It's good to hear from old friends and meet new folks as well. I've been a little under the weather lately, but will continue this soon.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Minututs - you have been missed!!

Blessings for a continued recovery,

Ralph
1COr 15:10

[minutus (minutus)]

Other images come to mind when I think of Baku. Walking downtown I came upon a funeral procession for a young man killed in the war. Hundreds of people followed his body through the streets, preceded by a photo of him large enough for two men to carry and another bearing his sports medals in a large frame.

I remember visiting a lady with P. Matti who was so worried she was almost climbing the walls. War, the crumbling economy, political uncertainty, and the strangeness of freedom took a toll on many. Refugee families were being housed in the dorms at the university where we studied Azerbaijani. One woman was afraid because her family lived in Fizuli, not far from the battlefields. I told her the war would never reach them. In 1993, after we had returned to the U.S., the town was overrun by the Armenians. There are about one million people who were displaced by the fighting and many of them still live in tents and railroad cars twelve years later. Periodic peace efforts have failed and both sides still rattle sabers frequently. Soldiers still die occasionally in incidents.

Baku was to me a "city on the edge of eternity," to paraphrase an old Star Trek episode title.

[minutus (minutus)]

The Bible school was an oasis for many in such troubled times. There were students who travelled long distances to be there. To stand in front of them and open the Bible night after night, to look at their faces as we studied together, to sing, laugh, and cry together was the high point of my life. Their stories and their graciousness broke me.

[minutus (minutus)]

This story is continued at:

http://www.factnet.org/factnetcgi/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=155363#POST155363

[minutus (minutus)]

Just passing through.

[minutus (minutus)]

Happy New Year!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gif

Dave & Family

[minutus]

Still out, still enjoying life.

[ariel]

Thats only cause you are living in the "permissive will" of God, Minutus....http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif



(welcome back)

[lana]

Dave, where are you today, 5/4/06?.
What a wonderful man of God you are!

[minutus]

Dear Lana, I really, really do appreciate your sentiments, but that phrase "wonderful man of God" still creeps me out a little after the Mother Ship years. I am grateful for whatever the Lord has done in my life, and yet am increasingly aware of how far short of loving Him as He deserves I fall.

We have been busy with life. Tom is almost sixteen now and doing very well in school. His wish for the summer is to take pre-calculus so he can study calculus in the fall. I think that officially makes him a geek http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif. I just finished a particularly brutal semester, taking two courses instead of the usual one, and have been in pretty serious pain with bad discs in the lower back. Been trying to put off surgery until school is out, since I normally take Tom to school. With all this I haven't even looked at FN for a few months until last week, but there is a small voice inside urging me to be a little more active here over the summer and start a conversation on healing. Even ten years after leaving, I still "walk with a limp" and figure that will be the case until death takes me home. I just don't want to waste the pain.

Still waiting for my secret decoder ring upon achieving senior member status...

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P.S.: I must be living in the geographical will of God, Ariel, because I'm a geographer http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif.

[lana]

From Lana, You underestimate yourself! None of us are perfect. His Word is powerful when we finally realize it. When we stop seeking what we already have, we are set free. We don't have to measure up, He is waiting, just as we are, to put His arms around us and love us for all of our seeking. He knows His own. He is the WORD. ... I am on webtv and can't get more than 95 posts. I will pray for your back. FFm2000@webtv.net}

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For any new readers.