GGWObs Introduction to GGWO has changed

[daved]

http://www.ggwo.org/intro_to_ggwo.html#section9

The link above takes you to GGWO's "Introduction to GGWO"

The Section: "Who is the Pastor" introduces the reader to GGWO's Presiding Elder and Overseeing Pastor, Pastor Tom Schaller.

The Section: "The Founding Pastor" introduces the reader to GGWO's Founding Pastor, Pastor Carl Stevens.

The Leadership of "Greater Grace" (sic) is now listed.


daved

[forte]

The GG website still lists
"Noah's Ark Bible Club: weekend Bible club meetings in over 30 different areas throughout Baltimore and the surrounding communities for children ages 5-12."

I don't think they do that anymore. I don't think they've done that in a long, long time.
So if they don't actually have the Noah's Ark Bible Club and still list it...aren't they lying?

[forte]

I like the way my friend rewrote this:

Pastor Thomas Schaller was named (by whom and how?) Presiding Elder and Overseeing Pastor of Greater Grace World Outreach in Baltimore in April 2005.


In February 1990, an internationally diverse team quickly settled in Budapest, the capital of Hungary. Pastor Schaller and his family joined this team that same summer. A Bible college – Central European Theological Academy – was established in the Fall of that year. Graduates of this school have gone on to serve in Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Bulgaria, Moldova, the Philippines, Thailand, Uzbekistan, and Turkey.
The fruitfulness of Body life and the spiritual health allowed many gifted men and women to grow in the Budapest ministry (to grow in the "ministry" not grow in the Lord?). Pastor Schaller credits the spiritual gifts and the faithfulness of team members to the development of many important projects, including the development of international and Hungarian Christian schools and affiliated churches in other cities in the country(THIS is how he credits the faithfulness of team members? From programs? Sure, get people to become so busy with the ‘ministry’ that they have NO life outside and slowly become no longer able to function in the real world). The missions-minded church has also made forays (definition: a sudden attack or raid by a military force) into Serbia, Croatia, Ukraine, and Romania.

During the 1990s, after establishing the ministry in Hungary Pastor Schaller traveled and conducted conferences and services(all work, no play) in the former communist bloc countries. This was also a time of frequent visits to Baltimore and the United States (He saw that Steven’s health was failing and started implementing his own prophesy of being the head kahuna). In October 2003, he was named (because he stomped his feet and cried) to the GGWO Board of Elders by the ministry’s founding pastor (because they lied to him and told him that Stenger was evil), Carl H. Stevens Jr., and in April 2005, he was elected Presiding Elder of GGWO by a unanimous vote of the board of elders (oh, ok, just like that, the elders just popped him right in there).
He and his wife, Lisa, are the parents of two daughters, Bethany and Amy, and two sons, Justin and Kyle. Bethany is married to Jonathan Odahara and they have three children, Mika, Jon-Jon and Lulu. Amy is married to Walter Fenner and they have two children, Emma and Thomas. All live in the Baltimore area and participate in the ministry of Greater Grace Church in Baltimore, Md. (why does anybody need to know this)

(Message edited by forte on October 09, 2006)

[cordell]

An analysis of the main character's duties in Orwell's 1984


<font color="0000ff">Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.</font>

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
The ministry of the chameleon.

Same old shed,different paint.
(depending on the day)
Hey,
the wood still rots and has termites.

</font>}

[hodeuon]

The whole front page of their website looks like it has been tidied up. It's neater.

The Grace Hour page has been updated, too. Now John Love is the host, and Carl's picture is next to "Grace Hour History". The history talks about Carl have nearly 40 years of radio ministry, first on Telephone Time then on Grace Hour. It doesn't gloss over the difference like the hosts so often do.

On the Introduction to GGWO page, note how Carl is the Founding Pastor, and his picture is under Schaller's. Points from Carl's bio - 1) He's resting at home. (honor, legacy, but Schaller's calling the shots) 2) Carl worked with the Gideons and Youth For Christ. (GGWO is maneuvering to mainstream itself. They've always worked with others - at least since the last edit.) 3. Lots of numbers and accomplishments follow. The move from Lenox to Baltimore is glossed over. But it's done neatly, not screaming about persecution.

I think that this website edit is a step up in sophistication. And I think that we need to be telling people what GGWO is really like and not let them be the only ones out there influencing public opinion.

Hodeuon

[cordell]

In the whole time I was with TBS/GGWO (1972-1987) Carl never worked with either of those ministries. Not even for a minute. In 1988, after leaving GGWO, I worked with the Gideons in London--one of the requirements is that you must be a layman. Carl was pastor of Montsweag Baptist Church beginning in 1962--so they're really stretching it if Carl ever worked 'with' the Gideons. YFC has been around (according to their website) since 1944. Carl was converted according to him, in the late 40s or early 50s so its possible he 'worked' with them in some way. Anyone who knows Carl, however, knows that he seldom works 'with' anyone at all.

Interesting that there is no mention of the 'Northeast Gospel Crusade' in which Carl did participate. This is the organization where he supposedly held one of his most coveted 'titles'--field secretary 'OVER' 62 pastors. Not sixty. Not sixty-three. Sixty-two pastors. He was no doubt busy teaching them about the 5 acceptable types of music and the thirty-six (or 39) things that God does for every believer at salvation.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Too bad they don't confess to the false teachings and make the proper corrections as well as tell the truth about how Schaller usurped his present postition.

Character matters.
At least to those who put a value on integrity.

</font>}

[lmao]

Regarding schaller it states "...in April 2005, he was elected Presiding Elder of GGWO by a unanimous vote of the board of elders."

What happened to these elders since?

Schaller is still there (duh).
Mike Marr is still there.
Scibelli is still there.
Steve Stevens resigned and disaffiliated from gg.
Scott Robinson resigned and disaffiliated.
John Capello resigned and disaffiliated.
Guy Duff resigned and disaffiliated.
Dan Lewis and Roger Stenger had resigned and disaffiliated prior to the vote.

There were three votes by the board. The vote to elect Stenger was a genuine vote. The vote to elect schaller was capitulation. The final vote was when six of the nine voted with their feet.

[johncollins]

The elders of Greater Grace in Baltimore voted twice for Rodger Stenger to become the senior pastor of the church. In the short lived "timeline" which appeared on their website in April of last year, an entry for 3/23/05 read,

Wednesday – In the Elders meeting, Pastor Stenger is elected as Chief Elder/Pastor of GGWO. He asks that his acceptance be conditional depending upon affirmation of the congregation. The vote is 5-2-2, with 2 elders abstaining. Unanimous vote of elders (9 to 0) made to stand by the decision.

As explained by Michael Marr in the church service that evening, the second vote in effect said, "Guys, we didn't unanimously agree on Rodger. But can we unanimously agree to support him now that a majority of us have voted for him?" That was the 9 to 0 vote. They stuck to their unanimous decision less than 96 hours...

According to the same timeline, Rodger got his congregational affirmation, with 56% of all ballots cast voting for him. (That's considered a landslide in an American presidential race). Many people never got a chance to vote. CHS appeared at church before all ballots were submitted, issued his edict that he wanted Schaller, and that was that.

John

[lmao]

My understanding is that the congregation was promised ten days to get their votes in but the only votes that were counted were the votes cast that night and perhaps the next day.

[cordell]

Ah yes, congregational voting...where the hell was Jimmy Carter and team when you actually need them to do that 'monitoring' thing...

[shat_happens]

Forte (by whom and how?)

Right here...

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2006/10/lil-dick-tator.html#comments

[shat_happens]

I love shallow with his <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> -faced grin!

It's the same finished woik, different day!

[lmao]

For ggers who might be reading, there is a point being made here in rehashing the schaller vote. That point is that when gg made changes to their website this week, they chose to include the "unanimous vote of the board of elders" phrase. This is a misrepresentation of what actually happened and shows once again that gg thinks it's okay to lie for the "kingdom". They like to accuse us of being unforgiving while they continue to tell their lies.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
That's right.
We're not here to mock GGWO,we're here to tell the truth about the lies that GGWO tells to others
while wishfully thinking that they might actually change to a Biblically balanced mainstream Christian organisation.

I did say "wishfully thinking."

They have (GGWO Leadership) such pride and arrogance to lie to God's people as though it was the will of God to do so just so they can hide the truth about a bogus "legacy" and an illegitimately elected "head of the ministry."

It really is shameful.


</font>}

[johncollins]

The first ballots were distributed at a Wednesday night service. I think those attending were told they could take four days, until the following Sunday (Easter), to make their decision and turn them in. Don't remember what was the exact cut-off time.

It didn't matter -- the conspiracy began almost immediately. Again quoting from the timeline (ie: quoting directly from the gg leaders themselves):

3/24/05 Thursday – ....Pastor Love requests a meeting of the elders with department heads, the “structural part of the church.”

3/25/05 Friday – Elders met with the Dept. Heads at Pastor Love’s request in the Youth Hut. Testimonies from the department heads revealed support for Pastor Schaller. Some department heads expressed confusion over the Elders’ choice of Pastor Stenger. The Elders expressed their desire to have the “people’s” voice heard in this difficult decision.

The people's voice, according to the vote, was to support the two votes the elders had already taken -- and call Rodger as the new pastor. Tom Schaller has publicly stated that Rodger had a certain number/percentage in mind, and that the vote didn't reach his number, so he resigned. When I asked him about this, Rodger denied that.


3/27/05 Sunday – Pastor Scibelli, Pastor Robinson, and Pastor Glen Cannon met Pastor Stevens at his house for breakfast before service. Later, at GGWO, Pastor Robinson announces privately in Pastor’s presence to the Elders and others in Pastor’s office prior to the AM service that Pastor Stevens wants Pastor Schaller with Pastor Steve and Pastor Scibelli as his assistants.

I was working that Easter Sunday morning, so wasn't at the gg service. I heard Stevens came into the chapel, crumbled a ballot and threw it down, making it clear he would not go along with the vote which hadn't gone according to his will...

4/6/05 ...results of the affirmation ballots...: 56% affirmed Pastor Stenger (407 ballots); 39% disagreed with it (282 ballots); 5% expressed no decision (33 ballots). There was a total of 722 ballots... Pastor Stenger formally declined the office and resigned from the Board of Elders at the Elders’ meeting...

4/10/05 Sun. PM – An Open Forum... Pastor Love announced that voting will take place Wednesday, with ballots accepted by Pastor David Duff in the Finance Offfice until Sunday, April 17th at 12 noon...

4/13/05 Wednesday PM – Pastor Stevens preaches briefly and then on stage he instructs the elders to do what they want. He leaves, and will not take part in the vote. Pastor Love then directs the balloting process.

4/17/05 Sunday – The ballots are counted...

Many people like to talk about the very short memory the American public has. It's basically true. People who may be terribly upset about an issue one day eventually lose the edge to their anger, and calm down. Doesn't mean they were wrong to be upset in the first place. You just can't remain raging mad indefinitely. While it's true that "life goes on," it doesn't mean that perpetrators of a fraud have a right to selectively edit their history and leave out all those inconvenient parts of it.

lmao, another point being made here is that FN often calls to mind those inconvenient historical facts.

One surprising thing to me in the rewrite of the GG introduction: their willingness to name the past organizations (BS, NESB, SSB) by name. On the Internet. Where it's so simple to connect the dots. Who's running the marketing there, anyway? ;)

John

[forte]

"Who's running the marketing there, anyway?"

probably the Hungarians

[cordell]

ghoulash

[kupski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

[cptlauthor]

This is the best video on what we went through as members of Bible Speaks/Greater Grace. There are so many similarities that it is truly scary. I guess there is nothing new under the sun and Satan doesn't have an original bone in his hellish body. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

[sister_mary]

Seller in market place: "Buy, dear customers, these magnificiant eggs for Easter. These are best ones to create an upside down cake! I guarantee the freshness of these eggs! You won't be disapponted! There is no Hungarian birdinfluenza in these eggs!The <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> has really well kept these under his protection as the hen has warmed them up! These are happy hens eggs with no cholesterol! Buy now! Cost only your life! Buy quickly before the product runs out:

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/