The Heresy of Rebound and Covering

[guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner]

1 John 1:9
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

GGWO and other ministries teach 'rebound' - a doctrine spawned and popularized by Thieme and other dispensationalists who fail to see the role of the commands in a believer’s life. Our friend, Jim Buckley parrots this false teaching. Rebound, according to them is that if I confess it I move on and we all forget about it, ‘forgiven, forgotten and gone forever’….They believe this to be the distilled essence of the finished work.

Not only does this teaching ignore the consequences of sin (which Carl used to teach that the consequences are removed in rebound). But, this teaching also ignores verses 8&10 of I John.

1John 1:8-10
(8) If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(10) If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

They make the promise of 1 John 1.9 into a license to sin, but John teaches us that this is abusing and twisting the promise of forgiveness.

We know that Jesus Christ the righteous is presented as sacrifice, advocate, and example. And, bless God that He is. Where would we be without HIS steadfast love? But, does this very love excuse us from any accountability? Does our heavenly Father have expectations of us? Has He given us the means to obey Him?

John taught that forgiveness does not remove the moral obligation to obey the commands of God. To 'know' Christ is to have communion and love with Him. To know Him means we 'keep His commands'. This knowledge of Christ is called a perfected love of God (I John 2:5), not because we are personally sinless, but because it is irrevocably established in those who live by it.

Anyone who PRESUMES to have received forgiveness from God but rejects and mocks the gift of obedient love as unnecessary is a LIAR.

[guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner]

Rebound also ignores the next six verses of 1 John 2. John wrote these things that we would respond to God’s mercy with a life of obedience.

1 John 2:1-6
(1) My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
(2) He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
(3) And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
(5) but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him:
(6) whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

John taught that forgiveness does not remove the moral obligation to obey the commands of God. To 'know' Christ is to have communion and love with Him. To know Him means we 'keep His commands'. This knowledge of Christ is called a perfected love of God (I John 2:5), not because we are personally sinless, but because it is irrevocably established in those who live by it.

The teachers of ‘rebound’ and their disciples, instead of receiving Jesus Christ the righteous' as Savior, they invent a false Christ, a savior who is indifferent to righteousness (which Buckley confuses as human good).

This teaching is a violation of the 1st , 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Commandments, which leads to the disregarding and violating of the 5th through 10th commandments. And, by their logic of rebound when we confess it and move on…the victims are not given any recompense. With this teaching, the wronged is not even allowed to confront the wrongdoer. They are so pre-occupied with excusing the wrongdoer that they cannot even see the errors of their own ways; and, the damage that their pet doctrine causes.

Do you see how lopsided this is? Do you see why this leads to a church leader getting a free pass?
Do you see why a guy like Jim Buckley (bless his little pea-pickin’ heart) will not acknowledge the wrongs?
Do you see why good folks who are misled will excuse and defend ‘god’s man’?
Do you see why even if they knew they were wrong, they believe that they are accountable to no one but God in their minds because they have rebounded?

Hence, we see Jim Buckley (and many others) with their collective heads in the sand, acting like a spiritual ostrich while braying their doctrine like a spiritual donkey.

This is MC Hammer Theology…rebound can’t touch this!

[guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner]

Will the love of God lived out in our lives as John instructs us, lead us to:

Place a man before our face and commit idolatry?
Make false doctrines and worship at the feet of them?
Demand undying loyalty without question from our neighbor causing them to commit idolatry?
Cause others to swear by oath to be loyal to a man and his 'vision'?
Dishonor the Lord’s Day by profaning what He designed to be Holy?
Cause others to dishonor our mother and father for loyalty to a man?
Diddle our neighbor's wife?
Cause the unwed to commit immorality by denying them the liberty to marry?
Cause others to commit adultery by encouraging divorce?
Cause others to hate those who disagree with us?
Steal our neighbor's home and possessions?
Will we bear FALSE witness against our neighbor because he disagrees with us?
Covet our neighbor’s goods and teach doctrines that will give me the 'right' to take what is theirs in the name of Christ?

(Message edited by guess who is coming to dinner on September 05, 2006)

[lana]

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". To me, he who does not fear consequences of our sins, does not have wisdom. That Holy Fear, is necessary or there is no growth in Grace and Knowledge.

[sidethorn]

Very good points Guess and Lana. Excellent posts. Carl twisted Scripture to avoid accountability and responsibility for his own actions. This was also done for his inner circle to avoid responsibility too. They sure don't want anyone confronting them about anything so they twist the wonderful Biblical truths about forgivenss for the covering up of their own corruption. Carl and his goon squad have a lot to learn about taking responsibility for their own actions and about the laws of sowing and reaping which nobody (including them) is exempt from.

[jim_buckley]

guess_who_is_coming_to_dinner

"They believe this to be the distilled essence of the finished work."

Mar 8:18 "HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR?
Mar 4:23 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."

Christ Himself is the "distilled essence of the finished work."

[orangetwopay]

well, heck... i know exactly where the heresy of "covering" came from:

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/2006/09/covering-heresy-of-carl-h-stevens.html

[sister_mary]

Guaranteed Liquid Waves experience after this experiment:

1. Warm your sauna (steam room or if you have not a sauna, fill your bath with so hot water, that you barely can sit in it.

2. Fill another bathtub with cold water and pour from your freezer one kilo mashed ice into it. If you live near a lake or pond with icy water or outside is much snow, then you can use them.

Sit one minute in hot bath, then one minute in icy bath or swim in icy pond or snow naked, then return back to hot bath or sauna and beat yourself with a bunch of birchbranches or eucalyptysbranches. Do this three times at least. Pour a bucket of icy water over you.

Have a bottle non-alcoholic beer or a glass of wine.

Wow. Liquid Waves flow in you and you will be healed of all your bitterness, sickness, misery, unhappiness and agony and depression. Try! Repeat this for six months or so long you need. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gif

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Yeah,
somethings being distilled alright.

</font>}

[whatsup]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif

[tetelestai]

In light of how the principle of rebound has been misused by some, I can understand why the idea of forgiveness through confessing your sins would be challenged. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Once in a while on factnet someone takes a shot at Thieme's teaching. Less frequently, there's an acurate or fair assessment of his teaching.

Though he doesn't need my defense, or anyone's for that matter, I would like to clear up something. Never, in any publication nor recorded message has Thieme advocated that there are no consequences for sin after Rebound.

Ref: Thieme's booklet, Rebound and Keep Moving, Pg. 25, first sentence: "Whenever we sin we are liable for discipline"

In the same booklet, (Pgs. 27-41), Thieme points out that King David's refusal to obey God's command to lead his troops in battle, heaped 10 years of discipline on David's life ... much of that discipline came AFTER his confession of sin (Rebound). Thieme is clear to point out that for years after David confessed his sins, he continued to suffer the conseqences of his decisions.

Prior to David's restoration (rebound), David's discipline was unbearable. After rebound, his spiritual life was restored and though his discipline continued, it was not only bearable, but he was growing exponentially closer to God in the midst of the 4 tragedies to follow:

1. His child born of adultery died.
2. David's son, Amnon, raped David's daughter, Tamar.
3. Absolon murdered Amnon to avenge Tamar.
4. Absolon, the son he loved the most, led a national revolt against his father.

The point of rebound is not to sidestep the consequences of your decisions/actions/sins, but simply to restore you to fellowship with God, and get you in a place where you can hear from God through his Word.

Don't take my word for it, just pick up the booklet and read it for yourself. (FYI - It is free of charge at Thieme's tapes and publications ministry).

Just because another ministry or pastor quasi-plaguerizes and distorts the teaching of another, might only mean that the plaguerizor has an agenda to use God's Word for purposes other than to feed his flock.

Also, the same principle is taught by many gifted and prepared mainstream Theologians and Pastors.

[sidethorn]

Repenting indeed restores one back to fellowship with God but does not exempt one from the consequences of their actions. You reap what you sow, no exeptions!! Carl and his insiders are not exempt either no matter how much they want to fight it. These guys made a career out of twisting God's Word to manipulate others to serve and worship themselves, exploit them, and avoid any responsibility for their actions. They claimed they were using God's Word or their twisted version of the Word to edify the people when their main interest was getting edified themselves even at the expense of others. Amazing how these guys had such a superiority complex about their teaching claiming you can't find teaching as good as theirs anywhere else. This teaching is actually heresy that is designed to put people in bondage to a corrupt leadership that refuses to be accountable for its actions and wants to cover things up. Freedom in Christ is exchanged for freedom for the pastor to walk over the people for personal gain. Covering for this corrupt GGWO leadership means having some kind of right to cover up anything they want and nobody has the right to ever question them about their wrongdoings or bring anything up ever again. All this while they continue to run over more people to build up their cult kingdom and enjoy more wealth and power along with it. GGWO is a ministry that ministers to its special insiders, not the people.

[tetelestai]

"Covering" is such a wierd teaching, isn't it? It's been a long time since I have heard it.

Seems it is promoted by the paranoid, and practiced by the fearful.

[sidethorn]

This "covering" teaching is a twisted teaching of Carl Stevens to silence his critics and keep people from checking out any evidence against him. Carl wanted to dodge accountability completely and keep people under his control. He didn't want people questioning him or digging up any evidence of his wrongdoing, so he invented his own teaching on covering to shut people up. Maybe a better term for covering here would be covering up!!

[tetelestai]

When a Pastor knows very little about God's Word, or when he is academically dishonest, or justifies using that Word to fit his inept and sometimes distorted view of his role as a Pastor, then these wierd little concepts mutate to become a tool to manipulate and keep people in line.

[sidethorn]

Carl deliberately twisted God's Word to say what he wanted God's Word to say. Carl was very inept in Biblical teaching, dishonest, and had his own agenda to control and exploit people while avoiding any accountability. He twisted Scripture to support all these agendas of his. He claimed he was only accountable to God but acted like he was only accountable to himself!!! Of course he concocted some twisted teachings to cover all his actions. Never question God's anointed which Carl thought was himself. Never disobey God's anointed. Never speak against God's anointed. Never publicly uncover the sins of God's anointed (Carl) and how they hurt people even though they did it regularly. Keep everything covered, keep quiet, don't make waves and submit to God's delegated authority that is ordained through Carl and now Tom Schaller. He who resists the authority of GGWO resists the ordained authority of God and will pay dearly for it. Paatah's never wrong, so never say he sinned. That's just what the corrupt GGWO leadership wants people to think to keep people off their backs while they continue to take advantage of people and control them!!! This so called ministry of GGWO is one big cesspool of lies, corruption, and coverups with twisted Bible teachings to attempt to back it up!!! Instead of covering up for Pastah and his henchmen, it best to spill the beans all over Factnet, Discussggwo, other sites, and the media!!!

[sidethorn]

Here it's Fall 2007 and Schaller and the rest of them still want people to cover up for them. Time to respond with a good bump.