Please Donbt Feel Stupid We ALL Felt Like Damned Fools When We Left Too

[yogi (yogi)]

Anyone care to share their thoughts and feelings when they first realized they were in a cultic system resulting in leaving years of investment of time, money, youth, heart and soul?

Personally, I felt: angry, hurt and VERY confused to think I could have been duped in religion as I had been duped in other important relationships.

yogi

[dawn (dawn)]

Yes, I felt many things, guilt, fear, emptiness, penniliness, ostricized silent, lost. It took years of untold struggles to shake loose. I still have scars after all of these years. Factnet has helped so much.

[heather (heather)]

I felt like the biggest loser, bringing people in, telling my friends that GG was "THE" church to belong to. When I look at people still in, I think jeez is this what I looked like to my family? I think that is part of the reason people are very quiet when they first leave. They have to get over the shame first.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

First I felt bewildered about what had happened. Then I felt angry that I had allowed myself to be duped. Next I felt anger that I had helped to dupe people. Finally I feel angry at the leaders who are still perpetuating the myth.

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

I am bewildered, confused, angry, annoyed, disgusted, nervous, ****ed off, unable to trust, hurt, alone, utterly sickened, yet ultimately I feel free.

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Dina - One out of thirteen is not bad when it is "free!"http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[dinaweena (dinaweena)]

....freedom is nice after you get over the fear.

[isabella (isabella)]

Dinaweena,

I'm very glad. For a minute I thought, "she might go back."

Freedom is the best thing we have. There is no freedom in TBS/GGWO.

I prayed for you. God answered.

You won't be sorry.

Isabella

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

I don't know what many of your thoughts are on Wayne Hogarth, but he preached a message last month on exalting Jesus versus self exaltation. I think it shows where, at least him, if not all of the pro-reform affilates are heading.

http://www.ggcpv.org/documents/3_6_05.mp3

[isabella (isabella)]

Who is Wayne Hogarth?

Wayne Hogath, why not come on here and give us your testimony...or as friend of mine used to say...

Testiphony.

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

Wayne Hogarth is the pastor of GG in Springfield MA. He is pro SC.

[mr_twister (mr_twister)]

I sent my daughter to high school at GGCA and this nonsense in the last year or so has shook her walk with God so much that we are very fortunate that nothing really drastic has happened to her. For people her age that are making life altering decisions when GGWO has played such a significant role in thier lives is scary, I thank my lord Jesus Christ, not CHS that we didn't just blindly follow the CHS doctrine and always payed attention to our gut (the holy spirit) instincts when things seemed wierd. I really don't have an agenda against GGWO and have some dear friends still in and I will never mark them like I know many people have been. However when I hear garbage coming out of koolaid drinkers mouths about how these are great times and revival it makes me very very angry. I say to those that feel that way and specially to those that are parents to take a real good look around and come out of the fog. Statements like "these are great times" are completely insensitve and insulting. I pray for you people and ask my Lord to help me forgive these people and myself for subjecting my daughter to this. Great times? Revival? What are you all smoking?

[ericlaw (ericlaw)]

It's not what they're smoking but drinking ,"Liquid Waves of Love"
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[joyce (joyce)]

Reading Factnet these past months leaves me so very angry at the leadership of GGWO and wondering "how long can this go on?" Having been "out" for over 15 years, there's still "Beaker Baggage" I drag around and it has pretty much become who I am today. The magnitude of deception that still goes on there is incomprehensible. The word "cult" is very hard to won, even though that's exactly what it is. "Cultish" is easier. But, nevertheless, facts are facts and I believe the Lord is so grieved to see God-hungry people spiritually raped day after day. You folks that continually contribute encouragement and affirmation to Factnet readers and seekers are amazing. Thank you.

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

Starting over again isn't easy. You've invested a part of your life there. You've made friends. You're prayer and study life, decisions and walk with God have been connected to GG. It's a big change in your life, any change involves stress. How much more making a change because you've come to the realization that your church is in error to the point where you had to leave.

You might be criticized for your decision. Some of your friends may become distant, or even worse "mark" you as being out of God's will.

The most important issue is that you're always doing the right thing when you choose to obey the Bible over what men say you should do. It's going to be ok, and the clearing of your mind promises a new, fresh walk with God free from the constant voice of "the ministry."

I've had many regrets about being in GG and I often wonder what my life could have been like had I never gone there. But the main thing is I got out. I'm free now and better off because of that.

Jim

[joyce (joyce)]

Whoops.. typo above. The word "cult" is very hard to OWN, not won. sorry}

[c_la_verite (c_la_verite)]

joyce... is there any way to contact you by email?

[joyce (joyce)]

c-la-verite yes. joycejohn@gwi.net

[c_la_verite (c_la_verite)]

thanx joyce, i will email you later.

clv

[anova (anova)]

CLV,

I'm telling your wife about this.


Anovus

[c_la_verite (c_la_verite)]

Please do Anovus. By the way my book on you is coming out soon. CHS has done the preface... some real choice throne words!!!

[anova (anova)]

A book?? About ME??

What's the title?


Anovus

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

el trono del bano!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

(Message edited by ralphwells on April 29, 2005)

[c_la_verite (c_la_verite)]

anovus...

Throne Groanings - The Unuttered Truth

[offshore (offshore)]

I remember waking up one morning, shortly after leaving the "Cult", and thinking..."Oh my God, I've just wasted 9 years of my life".
I had to keep reminding myself that my heart was pure. I went there to learn. I considered it college at the time.
Steven's was the one who had an agenda, not me.

I wanted to go home the first summer, as you would at any college. But, Steven's threw a fit from the pulpit, screaming and mocking... "All you babies, who eat pablum, who want to go home to Mommie for the summer... Well, your never going to make it".

I went home anyway, and I wasn't even killed in a car accident on the way there.

[offshore (offshore)]

One other thought...
I remember when my unsaved brother came unexpectedly to see me in Lenox one day. We were hanging out in the Robinson's Kitchen in Schermerhorne with Roberta Hall and a few others. It was a few days after the Jones Town mass suicide.
During our conversation about it, my brother thought he would throw in a little jab about what can happen when you're brainwashed and in a "Cult". He said.."So, what do you think about all those people who followed that Jones idiot and killed themselves, because he told them to?"

I, thinking I was going to be witty and sarcastic, said in reurn, "Yeah, our team down there didn't work out too well."

I remember everyone laughing except my brother, whose eyes got wide ...he thought I was serious... that it really was one of our teams.

Well, yes, it could have been, at least to a person who was worried for his sister and saw many troubling indications. It didn't take "Christian discernment" to see the warning signs.

I have to admit, and own the fact, that I closed my eyes to things that were warning signs.
I profoundly regret that.

On the other hand, I often wonder, if I had left, would I have met my wonderful husband?
(Proof for me that God is good !)

I also now realise that Steven's was so good at what he did the most, manipulate people in the name of God.

I have been out for 20 years, and I still think about these things. I personally think it is better to ponder them, rather than push them down or ignore them. It's a healing process that takes time...maybe years. It's a journey that is individual,and yet we are on the same road TOGETHER.

[lee (lee)]

amen, offshore. You've got that right! Doing as you say.....pondering on those thoughts when they come up is, I think God's gracious way to tell us of our failings but also of his goodness in getting us out and away from that kind of thinking and believing. That is when I experience solid healing.
I often think about how when I was in TBS, I never saw or heard anyone repent or take responsibility for anything. It became a very scary thing to me. This is where the FW message became twisted and so harmful. I can't imagine being in a ministry that doesn't teach truthfully about repentance. But, there I was for many years!!
I'm thinking that its got to be harder to stay in than to get up and leave. Your mind has got to work very hard to convince yourself that you must stay passive.
All you really have to do is stand up, say so and walk away. God really will work in you and for you to bring you out if you participate with him!
We were so used to believing and saying, that we would 'put it all in God's hands' that we became paralyzed in our faith.
Zombified!

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

But Lee, Stevens did preach repentance. He just didn't do it. He is a say and do notter. Isn't it ironic that in teaching about David multiplying wives, he came to the conclusion that that was his own right before God? I'm glad I don't have to be there when he faces God personally. I don't like watching people suffer, even momentarily.

[lee (lee)]

I never saw or heard it happen. Meaning, it was never demonstrated. If the preaching doesn't match the living it ain't the truth. I only saw and heard excuses and the blame game and justification. All the while, pointing the finger at someone else.
I remember him bragging that he'd do something wrong but within seconds....SECONDS, he'd instantly rebound and it would be over.....how could anyone question that?
Thats not truthful teaching to me.
After the CRI report, I heard he was going to change things but I only heard him run down Walter Martin more and more and more. The mroe he talked about him, the more angry he became and the more cemented into his twisted mindset.

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

Good stuff to read, folks.

[dawn (dawn)]

Be not just a hearer of the Word, but a Doer. I didn't see many "doers", but adulation for a man who could mesormize us with non stop messages. He robbed us of our innocence. He had none in himself. There are people among us who can do that. One is Clinton.

[buggin (buggin)]

As for the title of this thread;
'Please dont feel stupid,
We all felt like damned fools when we left too..'

reminds me of a paraphrased translation of that quote from the Gospel of John...
'the truth shall set you free....but first it will make you miserable'http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[offshore (offshore)]

Many have speculated about the Terrifically Tall fur-piece that resides on the noggin of our master/prophet/puppeteer. This is none other than the TOUPEE. There are many other minor toupees in existence, but there is only one TOUPEE. This device is superior to all others, not just because it lies upon our master, but because it AUGMENTS him. It ENHANCES him and CONSUMES him! This furry device is truly the UberTOUPEE, sparky!

Many have speculated about the form, function, and the very mythos of the TOUPEE. There are two things we currently know about it (thanks to the Stevensnerologist Research Agency for this). .

It is obvious that CHS wears a TOUPEE .
CHS vehemently denies wearing a TOUPEE .

From this information, we can only glean that CHS DOES NOT REALIZE THAT HE IS WEARING A TOUPEE!

We have it on good authority that the TOUPEE is actually a trans-dimensional fur-being that is using his glorious science-fiction-spouting head as a host.
The mind wobbles at the possibilities offered by the combination of the minds working in unison for the common good. One thing is true, we should all be thankful for this gift of the TOUPEE.

Those at GGWO, except for the recent disaffiliates, recommend that you head to your nearest ClothWorld for a square yard of the most luxurious piece of artificial fur you can find. When you get it home, touch it, feel the sensuous nature of the fur. Roll in it.

Finally, cut it up and wear it on your head. You will feel your inhibitions drain away, and your mind will open to the dramatic possibilities in your life.

This is what happens to your mind and head when you stay longer than 10 years in GGWO.


[Inspired by http://www.shatnerology.com/]

(Message edited by offshore on April 30, 2005)

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Does 'Being John Malkovich' come to anyone else's mind?

[anova (anova)]

Seems like alot of people in GG have made a trip down that drainage tunnel.

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

All kidding aside, he actually denies that he wears a toupee? Please forgive me, THE TOUPEE (TM)!

Perhaps a little follicular history is in order. He's been in the publice eye for several decades. At what point did he start to wear this appliance/begin the symbiotic relationship with the interdimensional being (a tribble, perhaps?)? Did it evolve from the snappy (and ALWAYS A HIT WITH THE LADIES!) comb-over? Did he disappear for 40 days and 40 nights, only to reappear with the Sacred Hairpiece of Turin? Was shaving of the gourd (boss_martian-style!) ever an option? Someone mentioned that they had performed a lime green hair coloring on Junior (that was the grooviest!) at one point. Was this Pre- or Post-Toupee?
The answers to these seemingly trivial questions may reveal a larger truth and provide even greater insight into the mind of Stevens. OTP, can you dig DEEP into the archives for a follicular time-line?

To all toupee wearers: unless your head is grossly disfigured (or just plain gross), lose the rug and SHAVE IT! You'll only look mildly retarded (just ask my co-workers), save on hair care products (Turtle Wax keeps this Martian's head shiny and manageable!), and complete strangers (often women!) will want to rub your head. What an ice-breaker!

[anova (anova)]

boss,

The green hair die caper was post-toupee.

I had a copy of a tape called "The Eternal Is of Eating" which had a photograph of Junior completely bald! He looked really severe. I believe the tape was from S.Berwick days.

Maybe HRH,JF, or bruder5 could fill us in on the history of the toupee?



Anovus

[minutus (minutus)]

Sounds more like a job for Mulder and Scully. Cue creepy music...

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

I just remember Dr. Hartman implanting hair plugs on the papal head (apologies to the Pope!) back in South Berwick. I think that Jim F. told about that on another thread a while back. I remember that afterward (for years) it would itch and he wouldn't exactly scratch it, but would kind of pat it...Chet Farmer used to do a great impersonation!! However, I can't imagine that what sits up there now is plugs...it is, as mentioned above, an appliance!!

[offshore (offshore)]

Yes, HRH, the scars from the "Plug Implants" were there. They did not work and he suffered with infection, and had to have them removed. That was back in the So. Berwick days, or earlier.
The Toupee was clipped onto the hair on the sides of his head.

A pastor and his wife who were in the mission field back in the early 90's, said Stevens came to visit and they all went to a rural family home for a meal or meeting. Being in a poor nation, the doorways had low rough exposed beams. As Stevens and Barbara passed through the door, his Toupee got snagged on a rather large protruding splinter on the beam.

I bet you can just guess what happened next.

He kept going,.....the toupee stayed.
Ooooouchhhh. That had to hurt.

Apparently, it was Danny Boy or Barbara who grabbed it, and plopped it back on his head.
Everyone there was very embarrassed for him.

Ya gotta love it!



(Message edited by offshore on May 05, 2005)

[jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy)]

For those of you new to Factnet and are somehow offended by this "hobby horse" discussion regarding Junior's fake hair, keep in mind that everybody on the planet who wears a toup is laughed at behind their back. It is non-discriminatory. I've worked in car dealerships and in Atlantic City and have seen hundreds of bad hair pieces and everybody laughs at it. Why? Because it's funny. I just saw ALI on TNT ( a must see for anyone exiting a cult) and there's a scene where Ali looks under Howard Cosell's hairpiece during a live interview. Cosell asks "Why did you do that?" Ali answers "Because it's funny."

To all of those currently wearing a bad hairpiece, TAKE IT OFF NOW! People are laughing at you.

Doctor Phil ain't got nothin' on me. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

Jim

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

One of the three things I saved was an old Stevens School of the Bible brochure. Carleluia was completely bald. I went looking for the brochure shortly after finding this board and have yet to come across it.

[yogi (yogi)]

Mark Linton saw "Pastah" once sans hair! He said it made his blood run cold with fear and trepidation at the horrendous sight! A little fringe on the sides with bumps which would make a phrenologist squeal with delight! Evidently, a Jason from Friday the 13th replica!

yogi

[whitehorses (whitehorses)]

how is this any less irreverent than talking abut lewdass's chub?
where are the factnet police when you need em...

(excuse me, was lurking and just had to make comment)

[herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness)]

THERE she is!!!!!!!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[whitehorses (whitehorses)]

hrh... sshhh!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif
be vewy vewy quiet!! im hunting wabbits

[ethelmertz (ethelmertz)]

PSST.........whitehorses...........glad to see you here this morning.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[ethelmertz (ethelmertz)]

forgot.......I finally figured out how to change my email address on this thing!

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Thank you Ethel,,,er,,, Linda,,,,, er,,, Ethel http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gifI was beginning to think I was crazy thinking you had MPD.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[elliemayclampett (elliemayclampett)]

if we can have ethel back then certainly we can have

<---------------
<---------------
as an active participant as well...
im back but now with a more appropriate monicker.
aka whitehorses

ps (monicker is NOT carls pronunciation of the charactar in "Friends", the TV show)

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Now Ellie May, ya'll better not brung any them thar critters of yorn inta grannies kitchen, ya heah?

[elliemayclampett (elliemayclampett)]

granny done made some stew outta my baby 'possum,paw, 'n jefro done rasseling with ma rang'tang out in da ceeement pond

[c_la_verite (c_la_verite)]

welcome back ethel... and ellie too. now if we could just get saygoodnightgracie to come on over!

[ethelmertz (ethelmertz)]

ahhhh elliemay, my hillbilly friend...

Ralph...I figured out who I am now! lol

c--hi

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Muhammed Ali was one of the most delightful of public figures. The people who got so angry with him never seemed to understand how much of what he said was just jest. People have the same problem in the way they look at Franz Kafka. Kafka is funny. He pulled a big one over on all the literary critics. I hope he's able to laugh at them through 'the crystal sea'.

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Why is it that in all the stuff I've read about him, no one has ever suggested that Kafka was mocking his father in 'Letter to the Father'? He did not feel inferior to his dad.

[yogi (yogi)]

Did Mohammed Ali and Kafka wear a toupee and watch the Beverly Hillbillies? Your train of thought has left me baffled Bobby...

yogi

PS. Never thought of that dark, Russian poet as having a sense of humor, vewy intewesting! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[louise_connolly (louise_connolly)]

I just watched a pretty funny movie named 'Everlasting Piece'. It is about two toupee salesmen in Northern Ireland in the '80s. One is Protestant and one is Catholic.

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

Yogi, Jim Kennedy mentioned Ali further up the thread. My comments started up about him. Many people thought that Ali was really arrogant; but if you sat and listened to him speak with an open mind, it should have been apparent that actually he was a humble, nice guy who just was funny as all get out and loved to tease. Kafka (Czechoslovakian, and a Jew who wrote prose in German) was also really comical and ironic and easily misunderstood. Neither of these wore a toupee. Jim brought Ali up because he playfully lifted Howard Cosell's. Toupee or not toupee; that is the answer.

[elliemayclampett (elliemayclampett)]

i saw that movie beforw louise and it is indeed very funny

[johncollins]

Funny thread, especially once the subject turns to hair...