Personal Experiences With the Department of Social Services GGWO

[Anonymous (4.139.9.160)]

The story of two missionaries comes to mind...

While visiting "homebase" in Baltimore, Maryland one visiting missionary became ill while the other had an accident. Both instances required URGENT and IMMEDIATE medical intervention.

Desperate, both visited Pastor Taggart's office seeking advice and money for their medical emergencies since their visa status did not permit them to work in the United States.
This reality made money very scarce for both individuals and their families.

Evidently, both were referred to a VERY expensive medical facility and were assured GGWO would defray ALL medical expenses.

Upon arrival they were both told to put up the necessary money for treatments. Penniless, these poor missionaries were at an impasse.

Evidently GGWO did NOT help financially in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM.

This is an apalling example of "lots of talk and very little walk" found in the leadership of GGWO.
That is, unless you are in the "inner sanctum where money and favors flow freely to the "elite."

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Shameful. I bet there are more stories like this out there.

[Anonymous (4.139.15.13)]

Let's hear them ladies & gentlemen.

[Anonymous (4.139.15.250)]

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord; that is My name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."

[COG (141.157.118.107)]

I remember livng in the dorms with quite a few missionaries. They never had the basics. (Or what I consider to be the basics, shampoo, toothpaste, and other items that are needed on a monthly basis.) They didn't have spending money either.
I remember a friend/co-worker and I being strongly encouraged to help these girls. After all, God had blessed us with jobs. (Truth of the matter was that we didn't need encouragement...we already made up "secret pal supply baskets" on a monthly basis. We would leave them outside of the door or on the bed of the girl receiving them. We liked doing this. It felt nice to help someone out!)
I always felt that the church should have had a special fund for the missionaries so that they could at least have a monthly allowance.
Another case in point would be the example of a friend who lived in Lenox and moved to Baltimore when I did. We worked at the same place. She had numerous health issues, but worked as many hours as she could anyway. I remember one of our coworkers taking pity on her. She took my friend out once a month and got her several bags of food, etc. I remember the woman asking me why our church didn't help out. She stated that she had never known of a church who seemed to have so much but gave so little to those in need. In all fairness, the church did give my friend a bag of food once in a while. The problem was that the food was mostly bread and cakes, pies, etc. My friend was a diabetic.....LOL.
I have no idea what my real point was here....I just started remembering and typing, but I think those reading this will understand what I am trying to say. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (4.155.90.211)]

I thought that the missions office sends monthly allowances to the missionaries. Or is this just another LIE we have been led to believe?

[Isabella (207.7.205.59)]

TBS/GGWO always lie when it comes to money. I remember:
1. Giving to a special collection for people going on the mission field...(you can find this in the Walter Martin Report or the CRI Report) and someone gave $50. or 100 dollars...the collection had less than the amount (they always pilfered the cash)
2. Putting a basket up at the back of the church for the poor, for food etc. Noone ever received a dime...everything went to Lenox and into the old man's pocket.

It's time for you folks still in there to demand accountability.

Tell them you want to see the books.

Get a bunch together for support and ask them to see what comes in and what goes out and where it goes.

If you don't do this, you are helping them to take advantage of the poor.

I don't think God approves of this...

[COG (70.16.29.209)]

Thanks Isabella, I remember those thing too!

&:56: Maybe it was another lie, but I remember several missionaries asking for sponsors so that they could go to and remain on the mission field. They said that without our support that they would not have any money while there.
The girls that I spoke of in the dorm were really nice, sweet girls. I don't feel that they would lie about not receiving any money for support from the school. But then again....who knows. I have heard and seen so many lies at TBS/GGWO I don't know what to believe!!

[Anonymous (207.44.132.115)]

The title of this thread is confusing.

[Bob Brinton (141.154.144.190)]

Pastor Taggart, mentioned above, was involved in the conspiracy from below against John Gardner. He seemed a friend and worked with our bus ministry in Pittsfield and the youth group. Sad that truth didn't seem to matter as much as lining up with 'home base'. Peter, I love you; but what did you do to Dan, my son? Bob

[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

I remember one time in our church in Marlboro we were having an event and a homeless or a low income person came. We were setting up and had a lot of food etc. there. She helped herself to some things and was lambasted in front of everyone. Great way to show Christianity and win a soul

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

Bob...Dan is alright? I am not trying to be nosy, but your question to Pete Taggart caught my attention...and I remember Danny fondly from Sunday School.

Roberta

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

if you fulfill the royal law ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, you do well but if you have respect to persons(favortism) you commit sin & are convicted of the law as sinners (james2:8-9)

James 2:1-6 ...

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

I think a great new thread would "demand accountability" from everyone.

That means:
If you have a story - post the names involved and biblical course of action you took, with whom and when.

If you can't provide that...post at the risk of being wrong.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Should not those in a position of authority take the lead, in the spirit of example setting?

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

Yes they should, but I can't bypass character and integrity because I think someone else has.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

I agree, but in the event that those not in authority are incapable or unwilling to behave in a biblical manner, does it nullify the requirements for biblical behavior in those of authority?

[Bob Brinton (141.154.184.203)]

Roberta, Dan is someone who isn't always open about things that bother him. He's never really talked with me about how he was affected by what went on at the Berkshire Bible Church. But he very rarely goes to any kind of church function. Part of this is due to working in restaurants and now a tavern; where his hours involve long nights and Sundays. He graduated from Simon's Rock; which was a relief to him after having gone from K-12 in Christian schools. He experienced a lot of mistreatment from both other students and faculty of one sort or another. It just was too restrictive and narrow minded and legalistic; and yet some incredibly bad behavior by other students was tolerated without serious discipline. I think this message board is good for Dan. I've always tried to be open and honest with him. I think he felt seriously betrayed by Peter Taggart especially. Peter headed the youth group and had also been in charge of bus ministry at the Pittsfield church. Dan went out faithfully on bus ministry for years. Peter had been his friend. But Peter turned on John Gardner and bought into the program of lies and betrayal from down south. I hope Dan has been able to forgive and to process this stuff; but he hasn't really talked to me about it. He feels the same as I do in mistrusting large organizations. I prefer to be answerable to particular individuals that I know, without a chain of command behind them. Love, Bob

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

No 64!
Our walk with God in these situations is based upon what we know we should do.
If I use someone elses life to excuse myself from being biblical, I'm in trouble.

I would would want to walk away saying "It may not have worked out the way I'd have liked it to but at least I handled myself biblically..."

[Cara (205.188.117.20)]

And how are you handling this biblically PG?

Have you gone alone to the leaders/elders yet?

If you have, did you receive the truth? Or did you receive what you wanted to hear, knowing it was not the truth? It is a great solution for leaders that want to continue in sin, isn't it? If you pursue further than you are marked as a divider and they slander you as evil and discredit your biblical walk.

So at that point you have two choices, keep silent (which is not biblical) or leave. TBS/GGWO has perfected this scenario for the last four decades. That is why there are over 14,000 posts here. They have discarded alot of wonderful, godly, biblical Christians that dared question their biblical responsiblity to the flock. It is the leadership at Gg that has twarthed the biblical process. And how long did we all think God was going to allow this to happen to His children?

It is the end days of GGWO. After years of hindering the biblical process, years of hurting their fellow brethren in the name of "the work," God is bringing in a new age of accountability for GG leadership. They are also now living in the effects of their sin. The current elders are left dealing with a drugged and demented man, they pretend they are handling this situation biblically but truthfully they are operating as they always have. Ignore the sin of leaders, cover it up with a canned statement, silence the dissenting voices through slander and go about their business as if nothing is happening. Except this time it is not working for them. This time the biblical process is being forced on them, not by us but by God.

[Anonymous (67.249.232.229)]

Please Personal Experiences with Social Services post HERE!

[PG (69.67.254.38)]

Cara,
So does that mean you agree we should all handle things biblically, or do you think we can excuse ourselves from our responsibility before God to stay under His statutes in matters like this???

[PG (69.67.254.38)]

Cara???
Do you just slap my hand?

[Cara (152.163.253.102)]

No PG, I was stating a point and asking you a personal question.

My point is: if Mt 18 is thwarted by the leadership for decades, if our church government does allow in their polity a correction of it's leaders from the body as a whole then a believer has a duty to confront and correct false teaching and abuse of the brethren. I speak for myself alone: I was pressed by God to act and not keep silent. I express myself on this board out of the love for my brothers and sisters. I believe what is occurring in GG now is wrong and it hurts the local body and the universal body of Christ. My motivation not to divide but to correct, reconcile and heal.


And now I re-state my question:


And how are you handling this biblically PG?

Have you gone alone to the leaders/elders yet?

Cara

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

Bob, I am keeping Dan in my prayers. I am sure he must have felt very betrayed and angry with Peter. Dan's attitude seems to mirror Scott's. Scott prefers not to discuss it, wants nothing to do with an organized church in any way and I must repect his needs. I know somehow though that God can use this situation for good if Scott is able to make the turn...I leave it to His amazing love to heal. All I can do is love and pray for him. I have to realize that God began a good work in him and will see that it comes to a good conclusion in his time.

I'm praying the same will occur for Dan. He's got a good heart. Just needs to heal a bit more is all.

That's what I pray for Scott.

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

Cara,

First I will address your comments:

if Mt 18 is thwarted by the leadership for decades, if our church government does allow in their polity a correction of it's leaders from the body as a whole then a believer has a duty to confront and correct false teaching and abuse of the brethren.

First, I wonder how it has been 'thwarted in your case'. If you went alone in a spirit of meekness (Matt 18:15-17 Gal 6:1,2)
1. Alone to discuss with the other person
(perhaps a one on one meeting)
2. Took someone with you to witness the reaction, attitudes ect...
(another meeting with the 'offending party'
3. Told the church - some of the scholars I've read on this say it means, tell the leadership about the conflict of the two members.
(If the problem is with a leader, then you bring another leader)

Now, was it thwarted because no one will go with you? Then verse 17...they become a heathen or tax collector to you!
I think this means move on.

Perhaps, if you sent a letter to whomever you wanted to meet with, cc; it to a neutral party or friend and request the person you want to meet with to respond to your cc: person, perhaps you get a 'step two' meeting.

I don't see however, any scriptural support for continuing to deal with the problem past this definition in this passage or any other for that matter. Perhaps I'm wrong and don't see it.

If you have friends in this church, tell them what you think and let them live unto God.

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Still didn't answer my question though? What have you done biblically? And were you there on Friday night of the convention and are you able to just overlook Pastor's condition?

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

Yes, I have.

[Incog Brev (205.188.117.20)]

Anon 149 - It does not appear that your question will be answered.

Cara - I sense that the underlying message from PG is that you are somehow at fault.

Apparently, according to what was posted, the reason that your concerns were neither addressed nor handled in a biblical manner is that YOU either were not meek (or meek enough) and/or YOU did not follow the proper biblical procedure or process.

Next, since YOU nullified the biblical terms, YOU should just move on. This doesn't even deserve to be called faulty logic. It is excuse-making - plain and simple.

I DO agree with one aspect of PG's advice, though, you should ABSOLUTELY tell your friends in this church what you think and let them live unto God. All of them. Every single one.

[Bob Brinton (141.154.146.3)]

Roberta, Thank you for praying for Dan. I think perhaps he has discussed things with others in his own age bracket that went through the same thing; Leah and Eva Joy Herring, Beth Gardner. He works at The Heritage in Lenox, across from the book store. Also, we do discuss the principles involved. He just has never opened up about his personal hurt or his feelings about the people involved. Interestingly; the Brintons, Herrings and Gardners all tend to be 'independent' thinkers. We place high value on individuality.

I was sorry to see on another thread that you had been accused for giving in to your illness. Mary had similar problems (not the illness, but the judgment). She got it from the Assemblies church I'm still in. Not everyone there thinks this way; but many believe that no one should remain physically ill. They're continually dragging out 'by His stripes we are healed' as if it's a promise for physical healing in this life; particularly when they pray for the sick. It makes me spiritually nauseous. It places the burden on the sick person's faith. The implications are that if you go unhealed, then it's your disbelief or sin or you haven't gone through the proper hoops. All works. Healing is an act of mercy from God. Joni Earikson came to the point where she thanked God that she hadn't been healed. There's another aspect of this that's kind of related that starts looking for demons under every rock.

I will pray for you and Scott also. My take on it is that the Lord sometimes takes a long time because He wants to deal thoroughly. Urgency is another whole cause of misconception. The Lord knows how long things should take. We don't. We can trust Him to care for us and those we love, as we seek His face in prayer for them. Love, Bob

[Cara (64.12.117.20)]

Incog Brev,

I agree with you. I do not think PG will have honest dialogue on this issue. He vaguely states he handled this in a biblical way. I can only assume that he went to the elders, he accepted their explanation. It does not matter if the explanation flies in the face of logic or discernment. Maybe his statment of:

....some of the scholars I've read on this say it means, tell the leadership about the conflict of the two members.
(If the problem is with a leader, then you bring another leader)

.... means he discussed it with some other pastors privately. I know that this was the topic of conversation among branch pastors during convention. I some went storming into elders offices. I know that certain elders demanded Pastor to repent and correct Friday's message. I know he said he would the following Wed. service and I know at the last minute he refused to. So again, Mt18 in this incident is thwarted once again. It is a perfect example of the problem at GG. Pastor Stevens is accountable to no one. Not the elders or the congregation or the body of Christ. Instead of demanding accountability for errant doctrine on Friday night (never mind the fact that he is behind the pulpit preaching under the influence,)the leaders/elders not only remain silent but enable him further by altering the tape of the message. Even the edited version Pastor spoke heresy, he repeatedly stated "We get to heaven through obedience, he made the audience repeat it. Do these men really believe they are handling this biblically. Can anyone imagine another church allowing a drugged pastor to get behind the pulpit and speak errant doctrines and not deal with it immediately. A year ago they were wringing their hands over these same issues. They were altering tapes of ABD that he was speaking from his office. This is NOT normal church polity of a healthy church. This is damage control tactics to cover-up a counterfeit church and protect the image of personality cult leader.

Fool yourself PG into believing you are being biblical, you have plenty of other branch pastors that will enable you in your deception. But in the eyes of the watching Christian community you share in the sin and you are as accountable as Pastor and the elders.

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

.... means he discussed it with some other pastors privately....

What an unbelievable amount of conjecture.
This is part of the problem.
How on earth do you know who am I and what I discussed with who!!!!

You just made several assumptions about my place in this and my relationship to the ministry!

What if my telling you how I handled...a situation might expose others, who do not wish to be exposed. It is never wise in the midst of a serious problem or conflict to give strangers a play by play of what your doing.

By the way, how do you know whether or not those elders or pastors who asked him to clarify and correct the statments haven't followed up after him not doing so on that Wed. (assuming that actually happened)

...Do these men really believe they are handling this biblically...
Well, on this one issue....
If they spoke to the person their issue was with privately, and there is no change (apparently - no correction made) then the next step is bring additional witness/s or elders to ask for the correction again.
If he won't correct the problem, they should formally communicate it to the elders or leadership...they can chose to stay, or leave.
Some have exited, others may if things don't change.

Another problem - branch pastors shouldn't have to initiate making these corrections! Their own (Baltimore) leadership ought to. If the local leadership doesn't then everyone has decisions they need to make and believe me, they will.

....Fool yourself PG into believing you are being biblical, you have plenty of other branch pastors that will enable you in your deception...
Nice - how do you know who I am and/or what my part in communicating truth has been.

That's just ridiculous conjecture!

Annoyed,
PG

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

Incog Brev.....

You said "I sense that the underlying message from PG is that you are somehow at fault.

Apparently, according to what was posted, the reason that your concerns were neither addressed nor handled in a biblical manner is that YOU either were not meek (or meek enough) and/or YOU did not follow the proper biblical procedure or process."

I did not say she was at fault. I was laying out the process that ought to followed by anyone. Do have a problem going to someone in meekness? (Gal 6:1)
Or Alone??? (Matt 18)

I don't know cara's situation, or what she dealt with. She does not know mine either.

But if she needed to address a problem, my above post is the guide I would use to, that's all I was trying to communicate.

[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

PG
whoever you are at this point anyone, Pastor, elder, body member, who allows this to go on is as culpable as the person doing it.
Who do you people owe your loyalty to? When you face God what will be your excuse for the deliberate misleading of trusting people in the wrong direction?
Do you honestly think our Lord will say, Oh, ok PG as long as it was Carl Stevens that's cool.
YOU CAN'T SERVE TWO MASTERS, TELL ME WHO IS YOURS?

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

So...they went to Carl and asked him to repent of the Friday night convention message...he refused.

Who has the responsibiliy when a head pastor refuses to repent of the message he preached to speak to the hearers of that message?

I am hearing al lot about accountability which is good. But my question has always been, who speaks to the man in the pew how listened to that Friday night message, who has been indoctrinated to believe Carl speaks for God and tells that man that Carl was WRONG and DOES NOT speak for God?

Roberta

[Cara (152.163.253.102)]

I was speaking in conjecture, I made that clear in my post. I stated I was assuming because you had never addressed my questions.

I understand your need for anonymity. I assuming that you are a branch pastor. I have heard from certain leaders that some branch pastors were none too happy about Friday night's message. It is now two weeks later and nothing publically has been done to correct it. And now we have Sunday's messages spoken that also need public correction. We have a serious drug problem and the founder of the minstry allowed to say from the pulpit, under the influence, that his words are God's words. This is not a new problem, it has been an ongoing cover-up. It is serious and it fails to be addressed in an honest, truthful, biblical way.

You are absolutely right it should not be the branch ministry pastors responsibility to correct these errors. But if the elders refuse to intiate the biblical process, then it is ALL our responsibility to address it. Many have and have been slandered in trying.

I press you because I sense you are a leader and whether you like it or not the body of Christ is observing our crisis and leaders will not get away with saying they were being biblical to allow a demented man and a group of elders lie to their congregation, slander and discard anyone that speaks the truth and continue to abuse the flock under their care.

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

209 had this to say..."whoever you are at this point anyone, Pastor, elder, body member, who allows this to go on is as culpable as the person doing it.
Who do you people owe your loyalty to? When you face God what will be your excuse for the deliberate misleading of trusting people in the wrong direction?"

What makes you think I have done nothing and am doing nothing! Don't allow your outrage to project conjectures on people you know nothing about!

[Cara (152.163.253.102)]

PG,
You are posting here, we are discussing issues. You have inferred in previous posts that only path is Mt18, you inferred that we here on factnet were not handling this biblically. My view on this issue is a dysfunctional church leadership thwarts the biblical process. There is no avenue to address sin in our leadership. We all know "how things work" in GG. Now you are taking personal offense that we are implying that you have done nothing and are doing nothing. My question to you is "What have you done?" You are no different than any person that has gone before you. The results are always, with no exception, the same. I am not questioning you personally, but I know from experience how the current leadership handles Mt18. My challenge to you, whom I perceive to be a pastor in GG, is to count the cost and do the right thing. I am wondering why you are here on the forum? Do you believe that there is lying, cover-ups, deceitful behavior occurring in GG of Baltimore. Do you believe the elders when they say "we are trying to make things right?" Do you believe that the dissidents that post here are off, bitter and angry? I am asking and having been asking you direct questions about your stand in the current situation. I ask and you don't answer and then wonder why your motivations are left to conjecture?

[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

I agree with Cara. Thank you, you said it far better than I.
And I ask again, who are you serving?

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

Cara said - You are posting here, we are discussing issues. You have inferred in previous posts that only path is Mt18

Is there some other path you want to show me?

Another post - who allows this to go on is as culpable as the person doing it.

What then would you suggest we all do?

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

to 209....Jn 21:21,22

[Cara (64.12.117.20)]

PG, you answer my questions with more questions and never answers.


You then post my partial answer to imply that I am saying Mt18 is not the only path. As I stated below, it is GG leadership that refuses to follow the path of Mt18....

I wrote:
....You have inferred in previous posts that only path is Mt18, you inferred that we here on factnet were not handling this biblically. My view on this issue is a dysfunctional church leadership thwarts the biblical process. There is no avenue to address sin in our leadership. We all know "how things work" in GG.....


So back to my question once again; what have you done and what do you plan to do when the leadership aborts Mt18 as part of it's polity. Thus allowing sin to abound and hurt the flock! Do you count the cost and address abuse, lies, cover-ups? Do you stay silent and do nothing when your leader speaks heresy under the influence? I want to know what YOU would do?

[PG (69.67.254.38)]

Hi Cara,

Excues me for being a little dense...but I thought I explained my hesitation about being specific.

Why are you grilling me?

[Cara (64.12.117.20)]

Cuz I am interested?

Cuz, gosh darnit, you are here for a reason and I sense you are seeking the truth and I believe your voice is important?

Cuz, I want your blinders completely off so you can lead others?

Cuz how the heck should I know who you are but I do?

[Anonymous (67.243.139.184)]

Here it is 172...hope you find it as informative as I did!

Thanks,

67

[Anonymous (63.27.14.137)]

P. Taggaert is an ******* he never have done for anybody.

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

pray

[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

,

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

do something Satan doesn't want you to do tonight....PRAY