Was it a lie

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

I understand that Neil Carrick was trying to do some things with Mike Marr and Pastor R?

But I have not heard about anything happening as of late..

Has Neil taken his hat off and gone away?

Has anybody heard anything about what is going on now?

I think it was a bunch of DAMAGE CONTROL. Then again I heard Neil hired alawyer and maybe they stopped talking to him or Vice Versa.

Maybe Neil got scared off with his family again.

Rough House Blues

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Maybe he's just busy working and han't had much on line time, I haven't heard anything about it.

Roberta

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

Well with the rumors that went on, and even the stuff said at church why didn't anything happen?

What is going on with these groups.

I think Neil got scared off..

[Anonymous (68.33.104.166)]

The truth is that they lied to him. They gave him assurances that they were particpating with a third party, but they were just stalling and putting him off. They aren't interested in change unless they are completely in control. As usual, they are liars and full of deception.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Neil posted that he had hired a lawyer. Can't remember what thread.

He posted a couple of times after that. Skeet mentioned that he might want to check with the lawyers before posting anything else. Seems like Skeet was right.

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

I think he got lied to. I don't think Neil was ever serious about hiring a lawyer. I think his case was not that good and that he obviously has mental issues scared him off.

I think he was serious about trying to get something done with mediation with the group he kept talking about.

What did Mike Marr say in his sermon about people like Neil, Jeannie, Kent Sutorius and others in this sermon.

Did he actually say people's names?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Neil and Keri did see a lawyer, they have a great case, lots of documentation.

Neil has the sweetest heart of anyone I know. He worked for weeks on attempting to bring reconcilation. They played him and strung him along. They never intended to bring in the third party. They lied about bringing in a counseling group. He now knows that Marr, S.Stevens and Robinson are not people he can trust. He is now doing what is best for his family.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Yes, it was a lie. How many is that now? Hmmm...

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

Well maybe Tommy Schaller called Neil or Carrie and made him a promise or two...You know they are related by Beth Schaller and John Odahara?

No maybe Scott R called him and made him so promise.

I know it was Pastor.

He most likely promised him a new computer if he didn't sue.

I am kidding of course. I think it is sad that the guy who put the ministry up on the web, helped missionaries communicate and got Grace Hour up on the internet is now picked on by people in the ministry.

He was a nice guy even if he left the way people say he did. But who knows the real story???

[Anonymous (216.127.78.98)]

Why did Marr waste his time on Neil?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

because Marr is a lawyer and Neil was talking "lawsuit" so Marr tried to appease and control Neil from doing that. That is the job of Carl's lawyer.

[Anonymous (216.127.78.98)]

If this is so, why didn't they do something to apease Neil for the long haul.

It seems it would be easier to do what he wanted than deal with him every few months or years.

I bet there are others like Neil that Marr has to deal with.

Why can't they just do some real damage control?

There seems to be some stuff that is now verifiable on this board for a reporter and maybe even a lawyer.

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

Here are some of the things Neil & Carrie posted on other boards with some various post byy others included in the responses.

I thought it might be interesting for others to see a pattern:

There are efforts under way to bring in different groups for conflict resolution and to create a more healthy church.

I would like input in things that should be discussed.

Neil Carrick
neil@1works.net

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

Somebody else posted:

Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 03:25 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I worked in the Bible College and know whom Neil is speaking about, the group is called Safe Harbor.

their website is:
www.safeharbor1.com


Lutherville # 1-410-515-3070
White Marsh # 1-410-893-4600

Erik Sundquist, Clinical Director

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

Did anything happen with this group?

Did GGWO work with them?

I heard people were involved with them before and now I hear GGWO is speaking with them

Has anybody spoken to the folks at this place?

[Anonymous (216.127.78.98)]

Neil and others said that a group was going to be involved in mediation weeks ago.

I think this was a big lie. But I don't know if anybody has called them or wrote them to find out the truth. Like everything else on this board it seems to be a lot of noise and not a lot of sincere follow up.

I also think Neil played along with it for some reason. But not sure why.

This is the group that Neil had told others that was involved in future mediation:

Center for Congregational Health:

David L. Odom is the President of the group.

Medical Center Blvd.
Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1098
336-716-9722
336-716-9875 fax
congreg@wfubmc.edu

[Anonymous (65.96.56.161)]

What was the lie? That Neil didn't do as he said ?

[Anonymous (216.127.78.98)]

Yes and No.

Did the groups come into play?

Did anything get posted or was discussed elsewhere?

Was it all made up?

What really happened?

Was Neil distracting people?

Was Marr trying to convince people he was serious but was just fooling people?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

I know this situation first hand. Neil though sincere was led to believe Marr, Robinson and S.Stevens were being genuine in their desire for conflict resolution and counseling for those hurt. Neil believed them, most of us never did. It was classic damage control. They never intended to bring the conflict group. I know for a fact that Marr promised to call Erik Sundquist founder of Safe Harbor. He never did. Erik called three times! Never got through to Marr. He offered to do anything to help in anyway, he conveyed this to Sue Marr. No call back. But our own factnet underground has directed more than one person to Safe Harbor and they are being helped and are beginning to heal from spiritual abuse.

I know for a fact that Neil was lied to and he was mocked by certain elders for his effort to help.

As outrageous as their attempt once again to lie and deceive. I believe it was a good thing that occurred. It revealed their true colors and angered many and it is now on record here how they dealt with Neil. They abused him 6 years ago and knew very well he was fragile and abused him again. He has a great case as do many of us. It is a matter of time before GG leaders will be dealing with alot more than just Neil.

[Anonymous (216.127.78.98)]

To the poster at:
Friday, June 18, 2004 - 03:17 pm

Have you spoken to Eric or anybody at this group lately?

I love to know if anybody ever did call the mediation group.

I think the case is now mounting for many here to do something.

How long has it been since something was suppose to happen?

Did Marr lie to people in the church?

Leaders have told many people that Neil was crazy and the likes but isn't Neil somebody who Pastor actually put on staff himself and even veto others when he tried to leave?

I think Pastor Robinson was involved in all of this. I really don't understand the motives of Scott Robinson.

Isn't Mrs. Robinson trying to leave GGWO?

[MS.....X (64.12.117.20)]

Pastor Marr didn't lie to the church and he didn't lie to Neil either. Call him yourself and ask him. There is a 3rd party intervention taking place. He's at GGWO daily. And, he does return people's phone calls. I had issues and I had mine resolved, so the rest of you out there have no reason to not call and have the same thing done for you. Trouble is, half of you are just playing games with the forum and having a ball. The other half genuinely want healing and restoration.

So i dare you. Call GGWO. Except next week being convention week, you may have a bit of a time getting through to talk to anyone. In all fairness to the elders, either call now while the church is still open or wait till after convention week.

Before you print your hateful crap on this forum anymore you ought to directly speak to the elders that Neil spoke to. A lot of what Neil said was a bunch of b.s. I checked into it myself.

Get your facts straight before you post your lies again. I would seriously consider people's mental states in regards to numerous posts a certain person printed on this forum that he spoke to the 3 pastors, things are coming...etc...the boy is a dreamer in my opinion. And, he misconstrued a lot of his facts when he presented them on the forum.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

There was at least one conference call. There were promises from Marr to call the group back, half-hearted attempts on Marr's part did not connect him to the group. I know any plans on the elders part were canned weeks ago. The group itself was leery of helping because they realized this was much bigger than what they normally handle. They work with HEALTHY churches with conflicts, not abusive/dsyfuntional/cultic churches.

Yes Marr lied to the church, anyone in the know, knows he did. The others elders were not happy about his public lying. But he is a novice in the subtler way of Pastor's lies and manipulations. Read Alan Lang story for a reference of how these masterful manipulations work.

Anything that Neil attempted to accomplish is long dead.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Honey, I have my facts straight. It was from elders/leaders speaking "off the record." You are the one that has been lied to.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

If you want to check "the facts" call Erik Sundquist and ask him. He is someone that can be trusted.

410-893-4600

[PG (69.67.254.39)]

Anon 64.12 said....."I know for a fact that Marr promised to call Erik Sundquist founder of Safe Harbor. He never did. Erik called three times! Never got through to Marr. He offered to do anything to help in anyway, he conveyed this to Sue Marr. No call back. But our own factnet underground has directed more than one person to Safe Harbor and they are being helped and are beginning to heal from spiritual abuse..."

I personally spoke with Erik Sundquist on the phone today.
He will be posting in a few days.

He said he spoke with Pastor Marr, and the converstation was "excellent".
He also said that he desires to facilitate oneness and appreciated someone verifying this info.

Better...not post untruths without checking into things personally. Anyone can call anyone involved and get the facts!
Erik's phone number is on this page and he will verify this.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

I just spoke to Erik Sundquist, he asked me to convey the following:

He will be posting in a few days.

Do not read into his conversation with Michael Marr (who did eventually return his calls)

Safe Harbor is just that, a safe harbor. It is a counseling center available to anyone in need.

They are a resource for "the individual." They are a gracious ministry who is not there to judge the current situation at GG but to counsel, encourage anyone, within GG, outside of GG as they process and/or recover. It is not Safe Harbor's desire to be used as ammunition to give credit or discredit to the GG organization. All counseling is confidental and no one in leadership will ever be informed as to who has sought out help.

His website: safeharbor1.com

[Neil Carrick (24.88.43.233)]

Ms. X,

Please quote what it is I said that was not true.

Good Luck....

Neil Carrick

PS Don't expect to see many posts here. I have been given marching orders to be a little less open about what my family is or isn't going to do.

I have some patiance, remember Grace Hour didn't make it onto the Internet in Real Audio in a beta version before the rest of the world with me rushing to give up. People can play on my emotions, but I have learned time is my friend. Persistance is something I learned way before showing up at GGWO.

[Neil Carrick (24.88.43.233)]

Erik,

I would appreciate you posting soon.

Whatever the outcome of my efforts I have to believe that God is in control.

Neil Carrick

[Anonymous (216.127.78.98)]

I don't see the point of making it Neil's job to proove anything.

If the church is being real, won't we simply see it and hear it.

The same is true from Mike Marr.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Neil, please know that there are many of us who think that you have a kind heart. We appreciate your concern for others and your willingness to try to help them. We are praying for you and your family. Stay strong.

[Louise Connolly (24.128.24.65)]

Neil,

Your story is most compelling and a very helpful real experience that shows us all what GGWO does to families. Someone on another board said why would Marr go to such extremes for Neil. I thought to myself because he was their system administrator who was keeping all their technology in place and for a mere $10,000 a year. I am in the same field and immediately empathized with you.

Those charlatans paying a person that little money for that kind of service. It is disgusting and once again illustrates the power of mind control. You were duped as we all were but now you are on a path of recovery.

I can also tell you have a beautiful heart that just wanted to help the whole world. Now, you will have a chance to help yourself and your family. As stated above, many are praying for you and your family.

[JD Skeet. (64.12.117.20)]

"I have been given marching orders to be a little less open about what my family is or isn't going to do."

Fine orders. Best wishes, Neil.

[Anonymous (64.246.26.86)]

MS. X,

You wrote a conflicting account concerning Neil, Marr, Elders, and other groups.

I quote:

"Before you print your hateful crap on this forum anymore you ought to directly speak to the elders that Neil spoke to. A lot of what Neil said was a bunch of b.s. I checked into it myself."

I think Neil deserves an answer, I think those on this board who are hurt deserve an answer, and even Mike Marr deserves an answer.

What is it that Neil did say that was BS?

I think that you are contracting everybody with this post.

I also think you are scared to answer it.

[Anonymous (68.34.67.195)]

I think Ms. X received some answers from P. Marr and they appeased her. I think it's good that she made a phone call and got answers. She just doesn't realize yet that the anwers were appeasements, but he may not really back the words up with sincere actions. Ms. X, I press you to keep moving forward with your questions/forum with P. Marr until you really "see" changes. In the meantime, please don't mock people who have pushed a lot further than you and have "seen" that true repentance and change are probably not at hand. Thanks. Your friend.

[Maria T (141.157.97.185)]

Food for thought...

Why does Ms..."X" have to "explain herself" to anybody. I would re-read ALL the postings on this page before I would myself demand an explanation from her (or him..).
**************************
For example:
(1) Thurs. June 17, 10:39 p.m. by "68-33-104-166"

to quote directly that posting--"The truth is that they lied to him. They gave him assuranctes that they were particpating with a third party, but they were just stalling and putting him off. They aren't interested in change unless they are completely in control. As usual, they are liars and full of deception."

***to me, that sounds like an accusation against the elders, calling them liars. Didn't "Ms. "X" post that he/she had spoken directly with Pastor Marr and their issues were resolved...apparently this person felt that they hadn't been lied to by the elders. I'm not trying to create waves, I'm just trying to express my point of view on the post demanding explanations.
************************************
#2 June 17, 11:32 p.m. posting by "205":

"Neil has the sweetest heart of anyone I know. He worked for weeks on attempting to bring reconcilation. They played him and strung him along. They never intended to bring in the third party. They lied about bringing in a counseling group. He now knows that Marr, S.Stevens and Robinson are not people he can trust. He is now doing what is best for his family. "
.........
Again, accusing the elders of lying about the counselling groups...someone saying that the elders now can't be trusted. Again, "Ms..."X" posted his/her contact with the elders, Pastor Marr in particular. Then they "dared" the rest of us to call the cheurch ourselves before posting untruthful things.

Now, if this was me, I'd call the church. I would speak to all the elders. Just like the person who posted that they DID in fact call Erik S. and that he said he will post in a few days. Didn't he validate a conversation with Pastor Marr -- isn't that some kind of attempt on the part of GGWO leaders towards helping those who are wounded??? Looks that way to me.

*******
#3 -- Friday, June 18, 2004 - 03:17 pm posted by "64"...

"I know this situation first hand. Neil though sincere was led to believe Marr, Robinson and S.Stevens were being genuine in their desire for conflict resolution and counseling for those hurt. Neil believed them, most of us never did. It was classic damage control. They never intended to bring the conflict group. I know for a fact that Marr promised to call Erik Sundquist founder of Safe Harbor. He never did. Erik called three times! Never got through to Marr. He offered to do anything to help in anyway, he conveyed this to Sue Marr. No call back. But our own factnet underground has directed more than one person to Safe Harbor and they are being helped and are beginning to heal from spiritual abuse"......
***
again...someone "in the know"..nameless, anonymous...stating "facts" ???? What about the posting where Erik S. did indeed talk to Pastor Marr? What about Ms..."X" (gee the names people come up with on this forum are interesting...).

***
Now, in regards to Neil C. this is my own experience with speaking with him many times on the telephone. Up until the conflict started with Pam Purvis and the "4-139" poster that went way out of orbit, Neil and I had many friendly phone conversations, and I had always posted edifying him on this forum. Until he posted rebuking Loretta and I saying we didn't "know" Pam, etc. It was then that I stopped posting anything in regards to Neil postitively or negatively because I felt he was too overwhelmed with acting like the savior on the forum at that point, and it was causing him problems in his marriage and family life that probably wouldn't have happened if he had exercized wisdom in his dealings with certain issues.

However, when I talked to Neil, he had stated to me many times on the phone that he was only trying to help people recover, and that he had absolutely NO intentions of getting a lawyer himself, no intentions of filing a suit against the ministry, that he was working with the elders of the church in getting people headed in the direction of healing and restoration. So, am I to now think that he is a liar? Or do I give him grace, considering the fact that my postings are "pro" GGWO (until God directs me otherwise), but keep in mind, "pro" GGWO did not limit my thinking one bit in regards to seeing there were some real needs posted here on this forum and people that truly are and were hurting.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is so much going on now in these threads since I last posted. Its hard to pick through the posts without seeing some with some really hateful venom coming forth, and then others who are in need of healing are being drowned out by those that are really bitter and resentful!! Its those people I'm concerned about, those whose hearts really want healing and restoration and to move on with their walks with God, whether it be at GGWO or not. Their issues are important, but sometimes reading the posts, they are skipped over...because those that have "taken over" the forum and poisioned it with ugly hateful unnecessary threads...they seemingly now dominate things...and those others with real needs that are posting get swept away or neglected.

There's a lot more dissention on the board. I can't see God working with all the disgusting posts that have been put on other threads.
Why would He want to when out of the abundance of the mouth the heart speaks....see for yourselves, I'm not making this up!!!

So someone then posts demanding an explanation from MS "X"??? For what? For justifying that they had indeed spoken with the elders, for posting a positive response?? With the amount of slander and libel on this forum, Ms..."X" is the last person I'd ask for any kind of explanation from. Or is it perhaps they never posted with their "name" before???? Someone new to pick at, perhaps???

Well, if explanations are going to be given, then humor me. I'd like some kind of explanation as to why the forum has gotten so out of hand, that the posts are so despicable, some even hateful and evil...is this the way to true healing and reconciliation? I'm not talking about being reconciled to GGWO...I personally don't care where anybody goes to church, thats their business with God.

What I do care about is the condition of the hearts and souls. I can't see Christians going this far overboard with the ridiculous threads...etc...being "led" of God. The Jesus I know is loving, forgiving, compassionate,a giver of mercy and grace, gentle, kind...seeing the needs in people and loving them despite their faults. I don't want to hear any bull that my mind is "poisioned by
GGWO thinking" -- nobody from GGWO controls my thoughts, words, actions...nobody has called me "telling" me what to post or not to post, etc.
I shared my testimony. I too had been wounded.
For the sake of those new to my "longwinded" posts, I had a choice to make and that choice was to look to Jesus Christ. If I had to live my life revolving around what people said or did to me, or to others, whether it was something I saw, or something I heard, I'd have long ago given up on the Lord. Not "the ministry" -- how can people blame "the churches" for their problems with other people??? Why is a pastor to blame if Gods sheep are doing/saying things that are unchristlike or hateful to those in the body????

Why was it necessary for the Alan Lang story to be published on another thread? How can the woman that posted it stand before God and justify the real reasons she posted it??? It wasn't to "help" or to "warn" others about something...that was direct hatred in her heart for Pastor Stevens. What fruit will come of something like that. None. Only more wounds. I know Pam has flipped out before on my postings saying that some were directly from Satan. I am not sorry to say that I think stooping that low with evil intent in the heart is of satan and not God.

What about all the posts with the sexual innuendos, the mocking of the elders ("lewdass???"..."the liar marr"..."scottrobbingsome"..."pastor ****belly"...) Where is God in that???????

Like I said, things have gone overboard, and what started to be a place of refuge on this forum for people to get help has now crossed the line into wickedness and evil. And, no, I was not present at church Wednesday night to hear that Pastor said the very same words. I was on my way back from being out of town for 9 days.

Like I said at the start of my post, this is just food for thought. So go ahead and have another stab at me (referring to "SM" who hasn't posted again since I disclosed I knew his identity). I guess they figured out I have nothing to hide. I stand up for what is true and right, not whether it is on the side of GGWO. I fear what God thinks more than what man thinks.

Maria T.

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

You are so awesome Maria T.
You are our saviour!
Thank you for having no life and posting here all the time...

[just thinking (4.245.74.34)]

Maria T.,
1. I agree that things are out of control. Name calling,etc. Louise said she will stop hers. But, people are hurting.
2. Why did the Alan Lang story get posted? Because, when you cover up sin it will find you out. Isn't Sin the "Great Detective?"
3. Pastors cannot abuse their members and cry "grace it is covered and forgotten."
don't you expect more from your leaders?
4. What good can come out of it? Accountability and repentance. Reasonable behaviors of those over you in the ministry. Or, is this behavior tolerated because souls are being won?
5. I wonder how many are being lost because they see the abuse?
6. What are the leaders waiting for?
7. What do you think about how Alan and his family was treated? Is this all 'covered in the blood'???
For Him,
just thinking

[Anonymous (4.139.18.214)]

Maria T:

Sounds like your swinging to the "other side" of the issues at hand!

Good for you!

[Anonymous (64.246.26.86)]

Maria:

It sounds like you are saying because nothing has happened or nothing that can be verified that Neil is not telling the truth because of what Neil said about your friend Lorreta or Lawyers.

I think Neil got scared off by Marr and the deal with his family. I also think it is possible thay they used Pastor Robinson to get him to be quiet because of the deal with his family and depression.

I promise you will not get a quote out of Miss X as to what "Neil was BS'ing on".

Instead you will find that Marr and Robinson and for that matter Carl Stevens will never say "I am sorry" or "please forgive me and those who were wrong to hurt people".

What you are going to get is some efforts to continue to string people along and abuse many more folks.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Maria, read Friday June 18th @ 5:35pm..

As soon as someone said Erik had spoken to Marr. I called Erik to verify. Erik asked me to post for him. I wrote in that post that Marr had called him back eventually. I did not intentionally lie. Last I had spoken to him, Marr had not called him back. Please read my post carefully; Erik asked that no one read anything into his conversation with Marr. Safe Harbor is completely seperate from GG. They are involved because they care about any suffering brother or sister. Their presence does not validate the ministry but the individual. Don't use them as such.

[Anonymous (24.88.43.233)]

So is Erik willing to help those who want help?

I am asking this as well.

Is he willing to help those who are on staff at GGWO?

Neil

[Anonymous (207.44.134.33)]

Neil,

Nobody will answer this question except maybe Eric.

People who want GGWO to go down would never want a group to help those who are in leadership or on staff get help.

They rather see them die.

Don't expect Eric to answer these kinds of questions here.That would be a "public" opportunity for him to offer help. Which in turn would be seen as him being a "friend" to those who are hurt in the enemies camp.

You don't help your enemy.

Especially not here.

[Anonymous (64.246.58.26)]

Go have one of these people who have called Eric in the past call him and post what Eric says...

Won't happen...here

We know why they are here...

[Anonymous (24.88.43.233)]

I don't think Erik is really able to handle this.

I have spoekn to him on the phone and I am impressed with him as a person and counselor.

Reality is that I think the cost and the scope of the situation is to large.

I hope people who are sincere will care about staff people. But I can it getting in the way. I see it here and I think others do too.

Neil

[Anonymous (24.88.43.233)]

PS Please don't take this the wrong way. I trust Erik to handle counseling for people who seek it out regardless of who seeks it.

I just think that people should not mnake out Safe harbor as a fix all and think that Erik is even able to respond to being put in a raw place here.

If I was GGWO I would encouage people to go there. They are not interested in fostering dischord with the body of Christ. Thats not eriks heart as best I can tell.

I hope nobody fosters the idea his group is interested in hurting or speaking ill of any church.

Neil

[Erik Sundquist (66.149.215.226)]

Everyone, this is Erik Sundquist, director of Safe Harbor Christian Counseling. I want to express that it is clear that the situation regarding GGWO is very difficult (what an understatement!) for all involved on all sides of the issue. At this point, I could not even begin to claim that I even fully understand all sides of the issue. I do however understand some of what people go through when they see life as they have known it begin to unravel at the seams. I also understand some of what God's heart is toward all of us. I am in process myself of learning to live in and be an agent of God's tender mercy, His grace, His truth, and His holiness. It is from this vantage point that I would like to speak into this situation briefly and then clarify the role of Safe Harbor at this point.

Romans 12:17- "Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right ... If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." I urge people on both sides to seek the Lord regarding He is calling you to live this out in your life. We get into trouble relationally, emotionally, spiritually, etc. when we only look at one truth and base how we deal with a given situation only on that truth.

Proverbs 22:3- "A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, the simple keep going and suffer for it."

Galatians 5:1 - "It is for freedom that Christ set us free".

The principles here are that God calls us all to be stewards of our own lives- this involves assessing other people and situations and most importantly assessing our own motives and action and surrending them to Christ. However, the heart that God is after is one whereby we desire to protect and maximize the resources that He has given us. i.e.- not allow others to use and abuse us and take the life out of us. The heart of the matter is to be a faithful steward and live for His kingdom- not make it our goal to bring down anyone who has wronged us. There is a time and place to speak the truth but we need to be cautious and check our own motives. People still have power over us if we are in a power struggle where we are trying to prove something. I urge you all to be about peace, stewardship of your own emotional, relational, and spiritual resources, and to be about your own recovery. No one can steal these things from you.

Some good books that can assist with assessing yourself in light of the above issues and in light of God's word are "Boundaries" and "Safe People" - both authored by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. Safe Harbor has a group starting in July on "Boundaries"- check out www.safeharbor1.com for more info on this.

Regarding our role currently with the crisis at GGWO- we are simply a resource for the individual to recover from whatever trauma they are experiencing. We are not a judge or mediator at this point. We will not make any public statements at this point about who we think has committed what sins- this is not our place. I thought that the person who posted on 6-19-04 at 12:40 am stated our position very accurately and I would reiterate that all counseling that anyone recieves at Safe Harbor is totally confidential. Several people have already pursued this option with us and are receiving help.

Also, just for the record-I did speak with Michael Marr a couple of weeks ago and it was a very good conversation. I would caution against reading anything else into the fact that I said it was a good conversation. All that means is that we spoke for 10 minutes and it was a good conversation- it means nothing more and nothing less.

I will leave you with this- seek life, seek freedom- that is what Jesus is about (Galatians 5:1, John 14:6, and many other verses). Seek that in your own hearts and seek to be a person who gives that to others. The Lord does not want us in bondage- he has come to set the captives free!

For His Kingdom,

Erik Sundquist

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Thank you Mr Sundquist for posting. I admire the balance that Safe Harbor maintains when assisting people. I have given your number to a number of people who have contaced me about wanting help with issues from GGWO.

Your group has helped so many. I, for one, appreciate your letter here. Thank you.

Roberta srfern@verizon.net

[Anonymous (24.172.44.98)]

Erik,

I am glad to hear your group is available for others to go to.

I think you may be far one of the most reasonable people I have spoken to. You are also a responsible counselor and I am glad that there is an objective voice in all of this.

neil@1works.net

Many Blessings on Your Efforts!

Neil Carrick

[Anonymous (66.98.180.53)]

Eric so now you are a tool for not only Neil & Jeannie but for GGWO?

How sweet.

Didn't Jeannie repeat things about how don't trust certain people.

Is that good counsel?

I don't think Mike Marr or Jeannie would like that.

OHHH I don't think you want to help the poor souls who have been hurt. You are like the other trouble makers.

Make up your mind will you.

Neil was crazy to go to you or believe you would help.

It was a big lie. You don't care. You place your luke warm stuff up here. That is so encouaraging.

Who did you agree with Jeannie? Well thats so sweet.

[Anonymous (141.154.186.91)]

66. what's your problem? you are ****ed at everybody.

[Anonymous (66.98.180.53)]

No mainly just Neil, David, RJ, LL, and a few other weirdo's.

I forgot Maria T as well.

the rest post with no name.

Maybe I forgot somebody.

[Anonymous (141.154.186.91)]

I never get what this neil is ever talking about anyway so I just stopped reading his ****. David, he's the guy with tha gods name hang up, right? don't know maria or the others, but what's the beef. don't be ****ed at me, I am kinda new and tryin to figure **** out.

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

It is excrement. You flush. Have you figured that out now?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Erik's post speaks for itself. If 66.98 believes he can pollute a post that has the Holy Spirit's inspiration upon it, he sadly mistaken.

As believers, we have a witness of the spirit, we are equipped with discernment. The cultic tactics of manipulation and control may have prevailed for a time, but when such a precious gift of hearing the spirit's voice is regained nothing or no one can steal that away again.

Polute if you must 66.98, it is your freedom of speech. I will not try to steal that away from you, but you also cannot steal our free gift to be led and discern.

Thank you Erik for sharing your heart with us.

We discern what spirit you are of.

[Anonymous (66.98.180.53)]

Jeannie,

Why do confuse "spirit" with facts?

People have the right to know things.

You don't defend but who you want and when it does something to hurt GGWO?

What kind of spirit is that?

God is not going to honor what you, nor what Neil, nor the Browns have done because you decided to rail against the bible.

Thats what is sad. God would have honored what your husband did, and what Neil did if the rest of you would have been busy doing the same thing in the right spirit.

Your a mad bitter person who would do anything to get your way.

The Carricks & The Browns are pretty much the same way.

Tell me how I am wrong?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Erik's statement is neither for or against GG....


...Regarding our role currently with the crisis at GGWO- we are simply a resource for the individual to recover from whatever trauma they are experiencing. We are not a judge or mediator at this point. We will not make any public statements at this point about who we think has committed what sins- this is not our place. I thought that the person who posted on 6-19-04 at 12:40 am stated our position very accurately and I would reiterate that all counseling that anyone recieves at Safe Harbor is totally confidential. Several people have already pursued this option with us and are receiving help......


....Erik and Safe Harbor exhibit Christ's nature in word and deed. They are a resource for anyone, they are in the business of equipping others to experience a vital, personal walk with their Savior. I don't understand why anyone within GG or someone that has left GG, should have a problem with that.

[Anonymous (64.246.26.86)]

Yes Jeannie but why don't you tell everybody how you and Neil sent people to them because you two thought you could blast GGWO some more.

[Anonymous (66.98.180.53)]

Leave Jeannie alone! She is here to destroy some people!

Good Job Jeannie!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (24.88.43.233)]

What if I was naive to believe something good would come out of all of this?

The newspaper story. Factnet. Exchange of ideas, people copnnecting. Heck even those who were involved from something I did or said who would eventually attack me........

What if all that I hoped for was a lie?

Including how the Byrnes played into this..

The Browns....

My family....

Thos who we contacted and spoke to..

Was it a big mistake to believe God would do something here.

Dr. Sutorius reminded me of the reality of God in all of this.

Was it in vain?

Well I guess so if you believe what I just saw from those who were here in the begining.

I guess it will be if nothing happens.

But somehow I think no matter what, even if everything I did burns up, God had a purpose in all this, and it wasn't to break GGWO or push people out of the ministry.

I let God explain it to me.

Neil

[KDuhamel (24.60.78.215)]

Neil,

I am not sure what your last point was. Are you saying that you were betrayed by the Byrnes and Browns? All I have seen from these families is a commitment to the truth. Just because your assessment of the situation differs from theirs does not mean they are attacking you. If we have learned anything from our experiences in the ministry, it should be that we must follow the dictates of our own consciences. Frankly, your stance has changed dramatically on this forum over a period of weeks. I never know what to expect from you from day to day. None of us can claim we have uncompromised truth. By bringing our perspectives to the table collectively, we can put them to the test--see how they measure up to the standard of His Word and Spirit. Instead of speaking in cryptic language, please say what you mean. Then we can decide if you speak for us.

-Karen

[Anonymous (24.88.43.233)]

Karen,

I think if anything Jack Brown has been really on it. Frankly more than most can imagine.

I thought that the Byrnes were for something positive to happen. It appears to me they simply want the ministry to follow there dictates or the dictate of a small group or be shut down. Never mind familes like mine, the familes I know etc. I don't really know what Steve is thinking. I only know what I see here.

Destroying GGWO will not do much. In fact it ids a rather dumb way to go. There is good at GGWO and MBCS. I think it was Jackl Leonard who expressed this so well a way back.

I am majorilly upset that a few want to proove their point so bad they will gossip to the point that it does not qualify what even comes close to truth.

I have been betrayed by many. I would have thought that those who were the most hurt would be the most realistic about how change happens. That was really stupid of me. Those like myself often just want it to end. They care not about others so far as their own eyes can see. I mean by that they see hurt. They see no good.

Karen, I worked with people names like Kent Sutorius, Steve Byrnes, Ed Lutz, and many other talented people for years. They all did good. The good they did can't be discounted by the bad of a few.

The same holds true today. there is much good at many of the missionary fields. I can think of a Leonard in a far away place who is capable and loving man of God who has risked much to be there.

I know there are others like that family.

I won't throw the baby out with the bath water.

What is there not to get with that?

Neil

[KDuhamel (24.60.78.215)]

Neil, I do agree with your assertion that there is much good in the ministry. But this good is in spite of the leadership, not because of it--that's my opinion. I don't want to see the ministry destroyed. I hope to see God do something unimaginable. But in my mind, repentance from Pastor Stevens qualifies as a bonafide miracle--something I pray for but for which I won't hold my breath.

But if the Lord has given you "the assurance of things hoped for, [and] the conviction of things not seen," then hold fast. You could be the one to stand in the gap. But please make certain it is faith and nothing else that motivates you.

I will share my conviction with you: if you sacrifice your family to battle windmills, you will lose what is most precious of God's gifts to you.

-Karen

[Anonymous (24.88.43.233)]

I really appreciate that post Karen.

I am glad somebody understands at least where I am coming from.

Neil

[Anonymous (67.163.201.62)]

"If you sacrifice your family to battle windmills,
you will lose what is most precious of God's gifts to you."
Well spoken Karen

[Anonymous (24.88.43.233)]

Thanks Karen!

I reclaimed my family.

I know some here who are willing loose their spouse to beat up on GGWO.

In fact there seems to be somebody posting right now who is doing just that.

Neil

[Anonymous (151.196.137.80)]

Who is that person Neil that is willing to lose their spouse to beat up on GGWO????????????

[Anonymous (141.154.144.33)]

good question.

[Anonymous (141.157.106.142)]

we're still waiting on the answer too!!!

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

do something Satan doesn't want you to do tonight....PRAY