On the other hand The positive side of GGWO

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Since there are well over 100 threads dedicated to the faults of the church, I thought it would be a nice change of pace to read some positive stuff about the ministry.

If you want to say "The church did this for me, BUT...", Please, please, please post on one of the other threads.

Personal testamonies would be great. How has God used the ministry to bless your life?

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

God used the ministry to show me who God isn't.

Roberta

[Jack Brown (70.16.4.29)]

Pardon me, but this is a forum on "Religious CULTS and Sects". But since you asked, we learned much about spiritual warfare and how "pastors" who don't submit their lives to the Lord are used by the Devil to hurt Christians. We learned to see how things should be by recognizing how they AREN'T supposed to be.

After reading the Alan Lang story, I marvel how anyone could ever get confused between the true work of the Lord and what has been propagated by TBS/GGWO.

We learned once and for all to draw near to Jesus and never again put any trust or hope in flesh and blood.

[Louise Connolly (24.128.24.65)]

I learned what it was to be brainwashed in a mind control cult. TBS/GGWO is not a ministry it is a cult. As mentioned on another thread, 'Bite me once, shame on you! Bite me twice shame on me!' I won't get fooled again.

[Anonymous (216.37.223.4)]

I learned how you can go into something with love passion and full of life and come out of it (a church) almost dead not knowing who you are anymore and being afraid of everything and everyone. I will never trust as I did at Greater Grace!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THE LONLIENESS IS THE WORST!

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Geez Louise you really are bitter now aren't you. How can you look at yourself in the mirror? Are you ever going to get past the things that wounded you and continue a real walk with the Lord? I've seen your posts. You are filled with anger...but it goes to deep hatred.

Do you think God is pleased with your attitude?
Whatever happened to forgiving someone? If you were brainwashed as you say, it was your own damn fault for following after a man and not after God. Sorry to be so blunt, its not that I don't care about those of us who have been hurt by different things. Like Karen Duhamel wrote, she got healed on this forum. Some others have too. I don't see where its happening for you yet, Louise. I "hear" your bitter heart in your posts. It frightens me, actually, that someone could have that much contempt and hatred for a "man" that in Gods eyes, is no different from any one of us.

It doesn't mean that I don't agree that there are things that need to change for the better at GGWO. When do you think God is going to bring on those changes? When it no longer matters!! When we can give our hurting bitter hearts to the Lord, and purpose to forgive and love people beyond their faults. Perhaps even to the point of seeing their needs as weak human beings...then maybe, when we have humbled ourselves before the Lord...and letting Him have His way, letting Him purge US first of bitter attitudes, vengeful thinking, etc. Thats when He will move. Until then, aren't we making monkeys of ourselves planning how to get even....to sue the ministry...to picket during Convention week"...to further trash Pastor Paul by printing the story of his affair...where is God in all of this?

Oh yeah, we can hide under the guise of doing things to "warn others..." but isn't the truth of the matter that we want to "pay back Carleluia" (as you so RUDELY address him). We want to hurt him, don't we. We want him to suffer the heartache that we suffered, afterall, we're justified by things HE did to us...(?)

This thread Louise was started for the POSITIVE things we got from GGWO. Yours was not a POSITIVE point of view.

TRUTH IS YET TO COME

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

IF YOU WERE LONELY AT GGWO IT WAS YOUR OWN FAULT.

THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON OVER THERE, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO TO HAVE FRIENDS IS TO SHOW YOURSELF FRIENDLY. ITS EVEN IN THE BIBLE.

THERE ARE MANY FRIENDLY PEOPLE THERE TO GET TO KNOW. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, BUT THE PROBLEM IS YOURS, NOT THE MINISTRY'S

[Louise Connolly (24.128.24.65)]

Dear 216.37.223.4:

I was just getting teary eyed reading your post and empathizing with your pain. Time will heal you. The ladies you are going to email will help you. It is painful to admit we were deceived. You have a computer. There are many good resources available on the internet to help you learn what happened to you. Try http://www.freedomofmind.com/ for starters. The positive thing is that you got out.

[Louise Connolly (24.128.24.65)]

Now to 205.188.117.20:

I know I am not supposed to feed trolls but the most positive thing I got out of my time in TBS/GGWO is that I would never be able to make up my own personal loaded language word, such as, 'Carleluia' had I not aquiesced to joining the cult.

Carl Stevens is a charlatan. He found a way to use Jesus as a tool prey upon people’s need for love and acceptance. He has the same modus operandi since he was run out of the Woolwich - Wiscasset Baptist Church in Woolwich, Maine because of sleeping with one of the deacon’s wives. He reels in pretty women and he keeps his hand in the till. That’s what 'Carleluia' does.

Read my posts again they are mixed with both rage and compassion. I'd address you by name but you are anonymous. I think your pre-frontal lobes are getting dirty.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Louise, sometimes the trolls need to be given a wack with a rolled up newspaper.

[just thinking (4.244.186.67)]

A few thoughts:
1. if you were hurt by Pastor Stevens/TBS/GGWO is such name calling really necessary? You may have some valid concerns; but, you really divest yourself of credibility. It is like listening to a child scream names on the playground because they are upset. I know you are hurt, but how about a little christian decency?....think about it, your concerns are drowned out by your harsh words. I'm positive that we are to treat others the way we want to be treated.
2. If you are a current GGWO member and care about others, I would love to hear your comments on the treatment of Alan Lang. If a pastor teaches/preaches double honor, shouldn't he honor others?
3. Will you read the story of Alan Lang or is it to be dismissed as an evil report by a person who went negative against the ministry?
4. What can a church do when a pastor manipulates, covers up, discredits others to protect his ministry? Are there repurcussions, or is FACTNET the result?
5. When the leaders fail, what should the congregation do? Is there a difference between "I'm sorry, and I repent?"
6. The entire entourage of David's court "covered his sin" even when he was very sick (read his Psalms, it was almost 1John 5:16 for the king), Nathan, filled with the Holy Spirit said, "You are the man" And, he said it loud and publicly. Then, chastisement and restoration bagan. What do you make of that?
7. I am very thankful for the passion to win souls, the dedication to the innerancy of the scriptures and a hunger for godliness and loyalty to the church that I was taught. My heart is broken over this mess. I hope repentance, reconciliation and restoration will result. God give us a Nathan!! Not a Joab.
For Him,
just thinking

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

The positive thing with GGWO is? ... well, let me think ... oh, geez I can't really remember. Is it a positive thing that I wasted half my life in a cult? Or is it that I was deceived thinking that this was a genuine New Testament Christian Church? Or was it the fact that I was intimidated for many years not to question "delegated authority" even if things at times seemed a little odd to say the least? Or was it the constant hush-hush game that was so positive? Or was it the marking and gossip/running down about/of "enemies" (enemies are those who seriously question some GGWO doctrines or some pratices in GGWO)? Or perhaps the positive thing was that my marriage and family was almost ruined because we had to follow the Call of God unto our death?

Geez, I just don't remember the positive things about GGWO. Maybe it was the backstabbing friends? Or perhaps the "innocent" frauds in that church that took our money?

Oh, there we go, I found something POSITIVE: I learned to study the Word of God for myself, because the pulpit taught some odd things and I had to check it out for myself if things were really that way, and by studying the Word of God I found out that I should have a closer personal relationship with Christ. That was good! Studying the Word of God also helped me open my eyes because the Holy Spirit shed the light on His eternal Word and provided understanding.

And another POSITIVE thing was that I really learned to have a heart after people, the lost and also the fellow Christians, because when I saw my fellow Christians in GGWO enter into the burnout syndrome and leave the "ministry" I said to myself "Why?" as that person was apparently doing so well. And as I learned to study the Bible in categories I also found a lot of categories in the Bible that explained that it's Grace and not works, and it's Grace and not legalism, and PERFECT LOVE casts out fear. But Pastor Carl H. Stevens spreads fear and most of the time it's disguised in "eloquent" verse by verse bombardments, but then are the times when he lets it rip as they say at GGWO.
About the lost my heart began to yearn that they'll never ever get involved in a cult like GGWO so that instead they can meet the gracious Savior Jesus Christ. People don't need to play church and church politics, instead they should be allowed to meet the Savior and then grow in His Grace and Knowledge.

My heart also hurt when I saw the many sincere Christians in GGWO who were deceived and intimidated just as I was thinking that if we leave GGWO our salvation wasn't sure and if we were really saved than God may take us home early because we left the "ministry" and we'll lose all of our rewards. What a legalistic foolish yoke?

Some of the Greater Grace branch ministries, especially overseas had (and have) very humble Pastors who were (and are) really after God and due to geographical distances were able to grow in HIS Grace as they studied themselves and applied the Word of God in daily life. Many of these guys are great examples and you'll find that quite a number of them don't really agree with everything that's taught in GGWO Baltimore. And you still see them at convention, but it's only to keep in touch with their friends who've found out the same thing. That's very POSITIVE! -- Seriously! But sooner or later these great examples and honest servants of God will be found out too as GGWO history has shown us and then they're marked and their ministries are taken from them and so forth. We know the game!

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

GOD led me into the Woolwich church. And GOD led me out of the Bible Speaks.

[Anonymous (4.139.90.136)]

68-

I am so sorry to hear of your awful account!
It is a miracle that you want ANYTHING to do with the things of God after this experience.

Apparently, you have a very deep and personal walk with the lover of our souls; Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God the Father!

He and He alone is what keeps most of us on this board from jumping from the tallest building right now!

It is the most painful betrayal to be ostracized or lied to from a man or woman of God; is it not?

Blessings to you as you limp forward with the rest of us on this forum.

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

4.139

Thank you for your comforting words. Yes, there were the really bad times -- the constant back and forth if Pastor is now right and perhaps I'm deceived, or maybe I'm hearing from God and they're wrong but they were apparently more than I and for years it was a struggle, especially since basically all my friends were in GGWO.

But then I resorted to the Word of God as I always did anyway, but just this time I had a very catgorical approach in the sense that I wanted to start anew like a Baby Christian to hear from God when I read the Word without preconceived ideas. I asked God to illuminate the Word of God through the Holy Spirit, to make it alive, to give me a rhema. And so I studied basic stuff like simply just the word "Grace" throughout the Bible. Then another word and various subject like "forgiveness" "hope" "mercy" and so on just as it was in the Bible. And since I've read hundreds of commentaries for over 15 years, this time I didn't even look at them. So in other words I let God minister to me Christian basics through His Word made alive through the Holy Spirit.
And it was beautiful -- no more preconceived human ideas, but instead now the living Word of God. Reading the Word and studying it became a lot of fun and exciting as I was rejuvenated from the inside with rivers of living waters overflowing. And suddenly we shared the Gospel with people just for the "fun" of it and they stood there in awe and as if they were struck by lightning in a sense, and they were transformed in an instant as they accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior.

No longer the issue my performance or my soulwinning or whatever, the cup ran over and it spilled, which is simply Christ working in and through me, which is the normal Christian experience and lifestyle. With our free will we let Him do it and it is a very pleasant experience and the Christian life is easy.
Now, I don't struggle with sin anymore, and in my experience I'm not perfect and temptation comes along, etc., but it's now very different. Like I said I'm joyous Christian, and I think very objective when it comes to doctrine and discernment as the Holy Spirit just recalls Scripture, but in a very joyous powerful way.

It's really exciting to be a Christian as we dive into Grace, and especially once the confused feelings and sentimentality of what we're trying to hang on to, is gone. Sure, initially it seems to hurt, because we're facing the issue. But for myself, I don't need to play church, and I can be absolutely transparent before God, because I'm interested in truth and if I was deceived for many years living under the undue influence of a cult leader, then I have no problem of admitting it. As sincere as I may have been, because of whatever desires and feelings I may have had, perhaps the need for friendship and love and acceptance, which are normal human desires, I was taken advantage of and I was mentally and spiritually raped.

But GOD worked it out for good. I'm now pretty aware of what people say and when it comes to doctrine you can't put any guilt trip or works program on me anymore, because the Holy Spirit recalls Scripture immediately, and I don't have to concentrate on it, it's automatic. How else should it be if Christ performs the work in me and with my free will I let Him work in me and through me -- then it's Christ, and all the performance pressure is gone.

There's no more fear, because there's a perfect personal relationship with Jesus Christ whom I can trust absolutely and fully as He has never ever let me down. One other thing that's exciting is to be in tune with God and then pray and then see God answer prayers. And praying becomes fun as it is a constant attitude.

And to all the others:

Oh, there's so much more I could share about it. But we all have a choice to either emerge ourselves into Grace by drawing closer to God through freely reading and meditating upon His Word and letting Him do a great work in us and consequently through us. Or the alternative is to withdraw and to get bitter and angry.
For some of the GGWO victims the positive decision may mean to have a 40-day desert experience which may last even months and years, to simply get away from that GGWO influence. And now use that time to study the Bible without any pressure on subjects like "Grace" "Mercy" and "Love" and e.g. the "miracles of Jesus" and so forth -- simple basic Christian issues and it's okay if you fall asleep over your Bible. Then perhaps you'd like to listen occasionally to e.g. Calvary Satellite Network ( http://csnradio.com ) and there are some relaxing practical programs on there. And don't be critical about it -- most of the preachers there are normal Christians who have sincere hearts and only desire the true Word of God, and maybe they're not as "precise" as Pastor Stevens, but they are growing just as we are growing in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ. And these guys are just fellow Christians who like to encourage and edify. So that's one little additional source to keep some sort of fellowship.

And true it will be hard to find a true Grace church somewhere, but maybe God will open a door -- maybe not next week, but if you pray and asked Him, He's faithful to provide --.

You must realize that you were betrayed and many in GGWO are just as deceived as you are/were, and they might be very sincere, but they need to face the music which often is a painful experience. But God is there and He cares, so you don't have to jump out of the window, because God has a better way of escape. Emerge yourself in the Grace of God -- it really works and it has for me for several years now and it's getting better every day, although I'm already content and as happy and joyous as I can imagine anyone could be. It's great! Give it a try!

Most importantly: Don't feel guilty and you will lose a number of "friends" for the time being, and you will be ostracized and perhaps you'll feel lonely for awhile, but think of it as your desert experience just like Jesus had to draw closer to God and to become objective and rejuvenated again.

Study your "Identity in Christ" based on the Word of God and there are a number of great articles on that subject like on http://megagrace.com/identity.htm
... which also features many other simple but refreshing articles, ... or study your "Identity in Christ" throughout the New Testament, your royal priesthood, your ambassadorship here on earth, you're very special and God really, really loves you and cares for you.

HE has a truly joyous Christian life available for you and best of all, it's free!!! ... you don't have to work for it. HE has finished the work already so that He can give us something for free. It will change your life for the better. May God bless you richly!

[Anonymous (67.242.151.237)]

AMEN 25.178 !!!!!!

Thanks for making my morning and allowing God to feed my spirit. I really needed to hear that today and I'm also printing it out to share with my dear friend still in GGWO. I hope it has the same effect.

Thanks.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

25.178

You said it SO WELL. Your discourse is the VERY HEART of what so many of us are feeling and currently need. I've often thought that it's NOT GUTZ that we need, IT'S GRACE.

nonotone

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

Great folks! It's the truth -- isn't it!

And for the others still bound in GGWO who are victims, and who may have he the back-and-forth feelings, because of GGWO indoctrination, please REMEMBER the following as IT WILL HELP YOU:

(1) When you leave GGWO, you will NOT lose your salvation!!!

(2) When you leave GGWO, you will NOT lose your Eternal Rewards!!!

(3) When you leave GGWO, God is NOT angry with you!!!

(4) When you leave GGWO, don't get all cozy with the world and run to the next bar to have a drink, and don't flee into some weird new relationship, BUT instead use your new freedom to study the Word of God in a relaxed, practical way. Study subjects like "Grace" "Mercy" "Love" and for the instance the life Christ what He did and how He ministered to people. It will change your life. And if at all possible simply just read the old-fashioned Word of God, the Bible. Don't get caught up in some pseudo-intellectual "study" -- maybe you want to use the Amplified Bible to study a subject a little more, or just go through the verses that relate to e.g. the subject of "Grace".
Then, get a grip of your identity in Christ which is crucial, because in GGWO you were confused and you didn't learn about your identity in Christ. Yes, you did hear a verse here and there, but he application was different as the approach was different.

In GGWO you heard a lot of things that apparently sounded great if it were just the Bible, but when the Stevenite commentaries and exposition followed, things changed a lot for the worse, because of the continuous threat of if you're not doing this or that and if you don't obay to the letter, then you're going to lose something and/or you're not going to make it. There is some sort of competition there and a psychological pressure to conform to the crowd and to hail Dr. Stevens. This is so obvious: consider there are a handful or sometimes even more security guards around CHS (Carl H. Stevens) and a huge crowd follows the man. And as they hang on to every word he says, they say "awesome" "isn't pastor great" "amazing" "wow" and so forth, but it's not because CHS is preaching such a phenomenal biblical message, although he himself may think that he is and he's convinced that he's doing the right thing, BUT it's the blind leading the blind. Most of the time when CHS spills his "godly" wisdom, he doesn't even smile or whatever, but instead with his dark eyes he looks even like a lost soul into nothingness. Don't forget that the eyes are the window to the soul.

Anyway to the #1 statement I made in the beginning:
YOUR SALVATION became absolutely secure when you believed and trusted once in your life in Christ as your personal Savior. No matter how you feel now or what you're doing now and so on -- once saved always SAVED! Salvation is the work of God and it's His full complete work, and when we once in our lives cooperated with our free will with the initiations of the Holy Spirit as we heard the Gospel, at that moment we were saved. You can't give your salvation back and nobody can take from you.
Your performance/fruit in your life is not the measuring stick regarding salvation, but instead it is the Word of God with all the Scriptures from John 3:19 to John 10:28 and the many, many scriptures on eternal security which you all know so well anyway.
And if you leave GGWO you don't have to question yourself if you were ever saved or not, because it doesn't depend on you being in GGWO or not, but your salvation depends on what the Word of God says. And the Word of God says that if you've put your trust into Christ as your Savior once in your life, the Holy Spirit has sealed you until the day of redemption and God has made you a child of God and He will keep you -- it's a done deal. I know you will have mixed feelings when you get out of the GGWO cult, because of the indoctrination that you've received over the years and the certain seeds of insecurity about this issue and other issues in case you were to leave GGWO.

On point #2 which is CHS big thing that you would lose all your eternal rewards if you leave the ministry and you would be rather naked once your face Jesus Christ at the bema seat. Forget about that legalistic junk. And yes I know GGWO argues this scripture and that scripture but once again it's twisted and not the truth.
Here we go: If according to for instance Phil. 2:13 it is Christ who worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure as a born-again Christian, than all the credit goes to Jesus Christ for all Christian "works" anyway -- we can't take any credit. It's His work in me and through me. So the eternal rewards are given for the work of Christ in and through me. It's not my work, but it's the work of Christ.
Therefore, if you leave GGWO you will NOT lose any eternal rewards whatsover, because you'll get your eternal rewards based only on what Christ has done in and through you. Every moment of the day when you with your will allowed Christ to work in and through you and you "said", "not my will oh Lord, by Thy will shall be done" -- all this is collecting eternal rewards. And you can't lose these rewards ever, because these are given by God to Christ and we know that He doesn't take anything back regarding eternity, because whatever He does it shall be forever.

Also forget the weird GGWO docrine about the bema seat scenario.
The bema seat is a celebration -- a type of home coming!!! The bema seat is an Award ceremony and everybody there will be eternally happy -- it will be overwhelming. You won't lose a single genuine eternal reward -- it's absolutely impossible as once again the safekeeping of freely received eternal rewards based on the work of Christ in and through me, depends on God alone.

So don't feel threatened by CHS that you could lose anything.

What you will lose are some "friends" and the fellowship with the deceived crowd of GGWO. That will hurt initially, because we all had emotional attachments there, people that we trusted, and people with whom we hung out with, and "mutual" interests and so forth.
But the little pain is okay if you consider the end result of being free from mental distress and bondage from a cult, and finally now you can join a true gracious Christian church wherever God may lead you to. And now as a result your personal relationship with Christ can prosper and you will experience a spiritual awakening.
What this means is that you will discover true Grace which you just can't find in GGWO. There's lots of emotionalism and mind control and yes they use verses here and there and they use the word "Grace" a lot, but if it's works it's no longer Grace. Perfect love casts out fear.
If you're in GGWO are you afraid of something?
Well, then maybe there isn't perfect love there although people seem very loving. But I know for a fact that CHS and several of the leadership in GGWO and some pastors of the branch ministries who I know teach fearful consequence for those who do not "behave" according to the GGWO rule.

When you see the big picture you see that there's lots of intimidation at GGWO.
Jesus Christ never intimidated, but instead He loved and genuinely cared for people, always ready to pour out his Mercy and Grace to all.

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

P.S. On the Eternal Security verse I had a typo and it was John 3:16 and not John 3:19 although John 3:19 is pretty good too, of course.

By the way Jesus Christ did confront the Pharisees about their false self-righteous legalistic teachings and hypocrisy which hindered honestly seeking individuals to come into the Kingdom of God. And Jesus Christ became very angry with them, and it's a godly anger, because God provides a free gift of salvation and here are the supposed-to-be representatives of His Kingdom on earth, and they exercise undue influence by putting conditions on how people could get saved so to speak and how people could grow into a deeper relationship with God.

And at GGWO we have somewhat some of the same principles. They, CHS, puts a false yoke upon people and they're unable to grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They, GGWO with CHS, pretend to be a Christian Grace church, when in actuality due to their own deceptions, they are a legalistic organization with cultic behavior. It's so obvious. And this make God angry too, because they, CHS, claims to preach the pure Word of God and to represent God's kingdom here on earth, but then they play their mind control games and the various manipulations and the mental and spiritual rape takes place with the result of destroyed friendships, destroyed trust, destroyed marriages and families, and a false type of Christianity that is only just another organized religious system of whatever type.

[Anonymous (4.155.30.27)]

I would just like to add, folks.....are you ready???????????????

Drum roll, please.......................

Carl H. Stevens Jr. WILL NOT be presenting you at the Bema Seat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Thanks, I needed that!) LOL

[Anonymous (198.70.0.62)]

The Positive Side of GG:

For present members it's that Pastor Stevens now preaches for ONLY TEN MINUTES!!!(if at all).

Dear God, why couldn't that have been true when I was there?!? Why God, why?!?!??

[Anonymous (141.157.97.185)]

You Bunch of jerks -- like you would even get near the Bema Seat

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

Every saved person will appear at the Bema Seat. And the Bema Seat is an Awards Ceremony -- a tremendous Celebration and Home Coming for every born-again Christian.

And a true Christian as a person who has accepted Jesus Christ at one point in their life as their personal Savior, meaning a person trusted Christ and the Finished Work of Christ on the Cross to enter Heaven.
Although usually fervent Christians, those who grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will have the evidence of the fruits of the Holy Spirit and therefore may display most of the time a spirit-filled Christian behavior, because of Christ in them.
Therefore we cannot judge anyone by their behavior if they are now a true born-again Christian or not, but we must accept it as an individual's testimony that they are born-again when they say that they've accepted Christ as their personal Savior.

Every saved person will appear before the Bema Seat, but CHS (Carl H. Stevens) won't be there to represent anyone, although he himself will be there as a born-again Christian, and every Christian will be there to meet Jesus and to participate in the distribution of Eternal Rewards -- and it's going to be a glorious day to which we all can look forward with great expectation. Some Christians will get all kinds of rewards because of the work of Christ in them and through them, and others won't get that many because they didn't let Jesus Christ reign in them and through them. But nevertheless, every single Christian will be positively surprised at the Bema Seat and each one will hear from Jesus' mouth "Well done, my good and faithful servant" and each Christian will enter into eternal bliss.
It's going to be a beautiful Celebration and it's an absolute guarantee by God Himself in His Word -- HE promised it to every single born-again Christian.

May God bless you and open your eyes to the true Grace of God, and then you'll be excited about being available to Christ for His perfect work as He does it in you and through you. Christ is the issue and the focus and that's how the true Love of God is manifested with the applications of Mercy and Grace, day by day, moment by moment as we experience a truly Abundant Life because of His overwhelming immeasurable perfect Grace!

[Anonymous (4.139.15.103)]

What about that story in the Bible of the man who owned a vineyard and hired workers to tend to his vineyard all day for a certain wage?

Later in the day he hired more workers to labor in his vineyard for the same wage.

Evidently, those hired in the morning time were angry because they received a wage identical to the labors who were employed later in the day.

Isn't this story or parable likened to the kingdom of Heaven?

If this is so it sure doesn't sound like "special favors" are given to certain folks for following Stevens' doctrines and works program.

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

Real POSITIVE stuff about TBS/GGWO and some OBJECTIVE insight for GGWOers. How to become a member of GGWO (formerly TBS). Here are the details how it works:

My background was in a dead religious denomination -- that's where I grew up. Then just after my teen years I met a born-again Christian who shared the Gospel with me and by the Grace of God I accepted Jesus Christ as my pesonal Savior who paid the debt that I couldn't pay. But that Christian church in which I got saved as a young adult was very legalistic with an emphasis on baptism and so on.

Then I met TBS missionaries who were much more relaxed and actually gracious, loving and kind, especially to new people. The TBS missionaries seemed genuine without the religious structures.
And that's how you get interested in GGWO and that's how it works: you meet these nice folks who can quote the Bible eloquently and who are interested in the Word of God and so on.

Sure, there was always an emphasis on that great pastor (CHS / Carl H. Stevens) in Lenox who was the founder of that Bible college and so forth. And there was an emphasis that we need to be precise in the Word of God. So the Greek and Aramaic came in handy for the TBS missionaries as they appeared to be experts in the Word. And often the attitude was reflected that yes there are other churches, but they just don't know the Bible as well as "we" (TBS/GGWO) folks do, so talking a little down on others, because TBS had the "Grace" revelation.

Then you start listening to tapes (preached by CHS) and there you get the vision: a fast growing church with missionaries everywhere and apparently eloquent Bible teaching and so on. There's seemingly "life" there and it's apparently great. Then among the "grace" messages you hear these special "motivational" messages against sin when CHS lets it really rip as they say in GGWO. Geeez, and that was "motivating" and powerful, especially if you have a legalistic background, because there you go and your old thought patterns are stimulated. But you had "grace" there and now you can live a holy life -- at least that was imaginary idea.

So, as you listen to the tapes you get "hooked" on CHS as he begins to become the spiritual authority all along as the TBS missionaries applaud you in your new Christian "growth" -- actually in becoming "one with the ministry" and in becoming a "yes" person and in becoming a "true follower of TBS" etc., etc., etc.

Then perhaps you get a chance to visit Lenox back then and perhaps even during the International Convention and there you go and it's such a great time as you're accepted "unconditionally" as the new person that just came into the ministry in the missionfield or in a branch ministry. Let's go and shake Pastor's hand and perhaps let's have lunch with him. And all your human needs of friendship, acceptance and apparently of being loved "unconditionally" are met. Congrats! ... you're in! Of course, seemingly also your spiritual needs are met as they (CHS and all the members at TBS/GGWO) have a lot of Bible knowledge and so on.

As you listen to the tapes and as you meet the new friends, etc. everything seems to go so well and you're apparently "growing" in Christ. Of course, the ministry or lets call it serving God is becoming number one in your life -- and initially that sounds good too. But as this goes on you're manipulated and you're taken advantage of in the sense that you're being drawn into a cult. Everything CHS and the branch pastors say is absolutely true and faltless -- it's the absolute Word of God and it's accurate -- after all CHS and the other pastors are studying the Word of God for hours every day and often for many years.

The image in the mind is created that for a man in GGWO the goal is to become a pastor and for a woman the ultimate place of honor in GGWO is that she becomes a pastor's wife. Now, lets study and perhaps start taking Bible College classes as otherwise there isn't even a chance that a man can ever become a pastor.

And so on it goes. Your original family, like mom and dad and some brothers and sister won't understand that you've become so "religious" and soon they are alienated from you in some way. But you have new "friends" -- often many -- in GGWO, so that's a nice substitute. And the little legalistic messages, or excuse me they are called "challenges" or "motivational" messages or the "red hot" messages, they keep you in check and the psychological fear is established in your mind. Don't ever leave GGWO as otherwise your leaving may be a sign that you've never ever been genuinely saved. After all, GGWO and CHS are the only precise and true church and pastor/teacher here on earth. Sure, they praise other churches to get broader acceptance and to establish in the mind the general acceptance of all born-again Christians. But at the lunch raps and the different little sessions here and there, you hear the teachings about the differences of that group and this group.

Then when you study the Bible by yourself, especially on the more gracious subjects you notice that there's something wrong with the legalistic little hints and teachings here and there. Then we're not supposed to gossip and question anything, but at the same time other ministries are being criticized for this and that ... it's very subtle, but over time you're a complete Stevenite and you think that GGWO is actually the "best" church in the world and the most active "mission" organization in the world. Why would ever want to go anywhere else? Then suddenly all your friends are in GGWO and mentally it is established that e.g. CHS or some branch pastor is your pastor/teacher and that GGWO is the fulfillment of a New Testament church.

But the "little" legalistic doctrines that have been established in your mind become the mental hooks and the issue of confusion, the back-and-forth of am I now wrong or is Pastor (CHS) wrong. And as you're not as old as CHS and haven't studied the Bible as long as CHS, it must be you who is wrong. But the Bible says this and CHS says something opposite ... how can that be? It just doesn't feel right.

Then you study the Word of God on a subject that bothers you and you discover after much emotional tumult, that the true Grace teaching in the Bible about a particular subject is contrary to what CHS teaches. GGWO doctrines, for instance, puts fear in your hear on the intrepetation of such and such a subject, while the Bible liberates you in this regard. And in John 8:31,32,36 we read that the Truth shall set us free and if the Son will set us free, we're free indeed.

While CHS and GGWO doctrine puts us under a yoke, the Word of God sets us free. The whole GGWO process is very subtle, and perhaps not even intentional on the part of CHS -- I don't know and I don't know his heart -- but nevertheless as sincere as CHS may be, I personally don't want to be sincerely deceived. Why should I live in bondage, when the Word of God by His Grace offers me freedom?
Looking at GGWO from the outside by someone who once was inside for many, many years with GGWO, you can see it very easily that there's a personality cult in GGWO and GGWO is very exclusive and there's twisting of Scriptures with personal interpretation. It also shows that CHS is very insecure as he constantly tries to manipulate and control the minds of people with his undue influence by using his Bible knowledge.

Well, it is obvious that a lot is going on in GGWO as otherwise there wouldn't be masses of people fleeing the "ministry." Over the years, many intelligent people left GGWO starting with P. Joe Swiader and many, many others. And there were always some emotional attachments, which is normal when you spent 5, 10, 20 even 30 years with the same group, and now you're out alone somewhere and everybody from the group looks at you as if you were devil himself -- an enemy, although you didn't even do anything other than just distance yourself a little bit before you leave the GGWO pack completely. Of course, nobody will talk to you anymore and you "lost" all your "friends."

Right now there are thousands of former TBS/GGWO folks out there and they've gone on with their lives. Some are in great true Christian ministries and their Christian experience has never been better -- they are happy and they have healthy marriages and families. Others were so burnt out and went back into the world -- which is the sad part of the story.

Anyway, this contribution was about how every person becomes a GGWO member and how it works psychologically in layman terms -- how someone gets hooked in GGWO and in any cult. There are many other hooks like perhaps a physical healing which came through a prayer by CHS or a financial blessing and so on -- but these are only outward signs. The key is, to you have the peace of God that passes all understanding. Are you enjoying the Abundant Life to its fullest? Is the Christian life easy for you? Is the burden to follow Christ light?
Or is there fear in your life -- fear of losing something or fear of whatever? Are there emotional attachments that are above the Word of God? Is the "ministry" more important than your closest relationships with your wife and children?
Then it's time for a reality check!

May God bless you! HE is truly gracious and God loves you more than you can imagine and He really, really cares for each individual so much, especially if you're a child of God. HE wants to bless you! HE wants to set you free indeed! HE wants you to experience the true Grace of God so that you'll soar like an eagle and so that you grow with joy in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ and so that you experience the Abundant Life every moment of the day in your life here on earth.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Botom line:

It is interesting that Pastor Stevens (P.S.) does not even claim to possess a consummate understanding of either Church History NOR a truly academic background in the Biblical Languages. P.S. uses original language "tools" like Wuest, Vincent, A.T. Robertson, etc. to get a "framework" - then through his own process of "spiritual exercise" in prayer, he "gets something from the Holy Spirit" and then shares it with "the Body". P.S. does this under his concept of "derived divine delegated authority" for the Pastor/Teacher. Now don't get me wrong, the "tools" mentioned above ARE from proven Biblical Scholars and are used (and appreciated) by Godly leaders and "lay-people" the "world round". The problem is P.S. is attempting to teach doctrine at such a level of depth (with the GGWO-specific "revelations" etc. spoken about so well by the previous poster), that in order to verify it's accuracy, one needs to be a TRUE scholar in the Biblical Languages.

Personally, I believe that P.S. is VERY sincere, in his own mind about what he teaches. However, he has basicaly ZERO accountablity to ANY body of learned, conservative men of God who possess the necessary background to challenge him. Anyone who has been in his ABD class, knows that P.S. "makes up" or "redefines" many words and concepts in order to convey his "enlightened" understanding of the Scriptures.

"Loyal, sold-out" GGWO Body Members mostly accept P.S.'s "doctrinal" authority without knowing or having a background that could challenge his conclusions and "definitions" from a sound historical/grammatical viewpoint. Most GGWO folks recognize P.S. as an authority in Hebrew and Greek which he is not. They are expected to acknowledge (as P.S. has stated) that "faith comes by HEARING - from your pastor/teacher " - NOT by reading on your own.

However, the "rank and file" GGWO Body Members ARE encouraged to study privately for themselves, but in reality MOST don't have the time (too busy attending services/raps/outeaches/MBC&S, etc.), or the necessary academic preparation to do so in a sound manner. This is an example of why certain GG affiliate pastors "fell for" the lie of Dillow's "The Reign of the Servant Kings" a.k.a. "5000 sins that will land you in Protestant Purgatory ["Outer Darkness"] for 1000 years" http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif.

[Dave (4.156.90.93)]

On Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 01:35 am
Anonymous (68.229.25.178) said:

>>>
Every saved person will appear at the Bema Seat.

-- a tremendous Celebration and Home Coming for every born-again Christian.
>>>

A common theme that reoccurs in Pastor Stevens’ messages
is the Bema Seat Evaluation.

http://www.ggwo.org/grace_hour_archives.html

At the above link can be found the following message by Pastor Carl Stevens:

“Word of God evaluations at the bema seat" Tape #7625


This taped message was preached on Friday, September 8, 2000

In this message, Pastor Stevens says:

>>>
…Now, let’s take a few things that He [e.g. God] will bring up.

The first thing that He [e.g. God] will bring up is:
did you believe that the Bible was totally inspired?

Probably that will not be a problem for you.

See----------2ND Timothy 3:16.

There probably will be no problem...
>>>

How does a Greater Grace Christian prepare for this first question,
THAT T-H-E-Y ARE GOING TO BE ASKED, at the Bema seat Evaluation?

E.G. DID YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE WAS TOTALLY INSPIRED?

Those who listen to Pastor Carl Stevens on the Grace Hour
k-n-o--w that he doesn’t believe that the King James Bible
[that he uses 100% of the time in the pulpit]
is totally inspired.

Dave

[PGeth (69.67.254.38)]

Dear Daveth,

The KJV is a good translation.
The NKJ is a good translation
The NASB is a good translation

[KDuhamel (24.60.78.215)]

Dave, I'll be honest with you. I'm having doubts about your sincerity. There are really only two options--that you are severely lacking in judgment or you are purposely trying to distract from the substantive issues.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

No, Karen, there are a couple of other options. He could be mentally unbalanced or is on the wrong medication (or not enough medication)

[Louise Connolly (24.128.24.65)]

I am voting on option two but it could be due to what the poster below Karen mentioned.

[Bob Brinton (151.203.147.88)]

I agree with you Louise. I don't even read his postings anymore. Bob

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Well Dave did distract from post 68.229 @ 2:38am!

Excellent progressive story of how cults reel you in and control you with their subtle manipulations.

I think we can all hear our own story in 68's!

Thank you for making it so clear 68..

[Dave (4.156.90.93)]

Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 08:15 am
Pgeth said:

>>>
Dear Daveth,

The KJV is a good translation.
The NKJ is a good translation
The NASB is a good translation
>>>

Will studying these three translations please God,
who Pastor Carl Stevens says is going to ask us:
"Do you believe that The Bible was totally inspired."

Is seems like the only way I could please God at the Bema Seat Evaluation,
is to believe, by faith,
that the original autographs were totally inspired.

Any comments from GGWO members
as to how they are preparing to answer the first question that God is going to ask you:

"Did you believe that the Bible was totally inspired"?

HOW DO YOU PREPARE FOR THIS QUESTION..

NONE OF OUR BIBLES THAT WE CAN HOLD IN OUR HANDS ARE TOTALLY INSPIRED,
ACCORDING TO GGWO,?


Dave


Is God asking if I believe that the original autographs,
which I have never seen,
and will never see,
is the Bible that is totally inspired.

Why would God ask us such a question at the Bema Seat Evaluation.

Could Pastor Stevens be mistaken
about what will be the first question we will be asked at the Bema Seat Evaluation?

[Anonymous (68.34.67.195)]

To the poster at 2:38. How well put! Thank you for taking the time to write the sequence out so clearly... that was my experience to a "t"! And yes, I did develop a relationship with God in this ministry. Now it is time to un-do the false teaching and move on with joy in Christ!

[Dave (4.156.90.93)]

Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 08:23 am
KDuhmael said:


>>>
Dave, I'll be honest with you.
I'm having doubts about your sincerity.
There are really only two options
--that you are severely lacking in judgment
or you are purposely trying to distract from the substantive issues.
>>>

It is possible that I am seriously lacking in judgement,
from your point of view,
since I am trying to take Pastor Carl Stevens messages seriously,
and wonder what are my responsibilities,
if Pastor Carl Stevens message on the Bema Seat Evaluation,
was actually annointed by God,

If that message was actually annointed by God,
the only way I can think of,
of how I would prepare for that first question,
is to believe by faith that the original autographs were totally inspired.

To be redundant the first question is:

Did I believe that the Bible was totally inspired.

Does anyone agree with my thinking on this issue?

DOES ANONE ON THIS BOARD TAKE PASTOR CARL STEVENS' PREACHING SERIOUSLY,
OR ARE YOU ALL BEYOND THAT POINT,
WHERE YOU USED TO TAKE PASTOR CARL STEVEN' TEACHING SERIOUSLY?

Dave

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Dave ,
this issue was settled with a number of posters weeks ago. Most people posting here recognize Stevens teaching for what it is. Do you pay attention to what anyone else says ?

[Dave (4.156.90.93)]

The title of this particular thread is:

>>>
On the other hand (The Positive side of GGWO)
>>>

I still hope that there is a positive side of GGWO.

Even in my critcism of GGWO,
I still hope that there is a positive side of GGWO.

Individuals
as well as entire ministries are capable of repenting,
if repentance should be required.


Dave

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Dave,

The fact is, Pastor Sevens is probably confused about MOST of the questions that Jesus Christ may ask at the bema seat; or for that matter if Jesus Christ will even ask specific questions at all. ... and quess what Dave, most of us on this board have already figured this out.

PLEASE STOP FLOODING THESE BOARDS WITH MUMBLE-SPEAK about the KJV, etc. Anyone, with ANY Bibliological sense knows that God ONLY inspired the orignal autographs.

Please go elsewhere and debate "Texe Marrs" and his crowd with your inane KJV dribble!

There ARE such things as E-MANNERS, Please recognize and obey them.

[Anonymous (4.139.18.129)]

The ONLY "positive side to Greater Grace World Outreach" is...

the "side", of the actual building, which faces EXIT door... God has made a way of escape for those of you who may eventually come to your senses!

PLEASE UTILIZE IT!

[Anon (152.163.253.102)]

Wot eats away at people to spend time writing so many hateful things. It can't possibly be God. Don't you realize what you're doing? This is so sad, so grievous to God, I believe. I wonder how many people who post here win souls? Pray for souls? Care about hurting people? You seem like you are bent on mocking, destroying, tearing down......... You WILL give an account to God.

[Maria T (141.157.97.185)]

Yes, "152" you are right. They will give an account to God. It is sad, and it is grievious.
Mocking, destroying others and tearing them down has become the theme of this forum. What a waste of precious time that could be used for the kingdom of God. If there is something truly wrong with GGWO...let God be the one to straighten out His people and His churches!! If we didn't take upon ourselves "His job"...perhaps He would indeed then take over, and many would be extremely surprised at the outcome.

I came on this forum to help those in need, to stand up for what was right before God. The change of focus here is very disappointing, and leaves me wondering where is God in all this bloodbath/mess? Perhaps lurking in the background waiting for many of us to go to the cross and leave things there once and for all.


Maria T.

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

To 152 & 141

Most people on this board are not interested int the gossip and the slander of other, but only in the facts about GGWO. Here on this board people can share their experience with GGWO. And if you read through the different posts you'll see that many have similar experiences.

There are thousands of ex-GGWO/TBS people who were victimized by CHS (Carl H. Stevens) and GGWO/TBS. To expose these things based on facts is something we as former GGWO/TBS victims can do on this board. These victims have lost many years of their lives, they may have lost a lot of money, and they may have lost a spouse, perhaps their children and often their families were destroyed. This needs to stop and its heading this way, although it has been going on for over 35 years.

There are many folks in GGWO right now that have the mixed feelings and are hurt and are intimidated and are indeed fearful that once they leave GGWO their salvation is questionable, which of course isn't true, and they might be stepping out of the will of God, which of course isn't true either. We know for a fact that God has already removed a great number of people from this cult who were sincerely seeking God and who had/have pure hearts and are fruitful Christians -- God is protecting them from further harm.

People are hurting, people have terrible experiences from the GGWO cult, and yes most of the folks in the pews (chairs) at GGWO are sincere and are hungry for the truth, but they are being mentally and spiritually raped at GGWO. They don't have the Abundant Life of John 10:10 and they've been sucked into this cult, which on the outward looks so "good" initially.

There are many posts on this board that explain how people are drawn into GGWO and how subtle the process is. We're here to help and told us in His Word to reach out help the needy (spritually needed included), the ones that are hurting and apparently don't see a way of escape. Deception is an aweful thing and it is devastating.

By the way, although we're all accountable and responsible for our decision in our free volition every day, for the purpose to let Christ reign in and through us, the born-again Christians will never ever need to give an account to God some day in the future for the things he/she supposedly didn't do/say or for the "bad" stuff that he/she did/say. That's a brainwashed fear-filled Stevenite / GGWO doctrine and it's not in the Bible -- only if you twist scriptures you get that kind of weird stuff.
It's once again a sign of how GGWO and CHS are intimidating the folks at GGWO.

The bema seat is an Awards Ceremony and a glorious home coming so to speak -- it's a time of celebration for EVERY born-again Christian.

So this board has a purpose as long as needy people are helped which happens to be through the sharing of experiences people had, and by sharing the true Grace message with others to bring about a quality solution to their needs.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Maybe Mariah T is on to something.
It is ok to molest children,
or beat your wife,
or have an affair,
or threaten people with loss of salvation outside of GGWO,
as long as I am ...Soulwinning
and loyal to "the vision of this ministry".

Been there seen that by too many within GGWO
sing with me now.
You can have it I dont want it its to fake for me,
hey its too fake for me, hey its too fake for me.

[SS (63.13.210.104)]

The premise of this thread has been ignored by the anti-GGWO warriors.

I was just reading about the Hebrew for the word "Man" is kazar - "he who remembers."

In all honesty - what do you remember about how and why you were drawn to TBS/GGWO?

Truth and honor.

[Maria T (141.157.99.97)]

TO: "205"
WHO POSTED: Monday, June 21, 2004 - 02:28 am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Mariah T is on to something.
It is ok to molest children,
or beat your wife,
or have an affair,
or threaten people with loss of salvation outside of GGWO,
as long as I am ...Soulwinning
and loyal to "the vision of this ministry".

Been there seen that by too many within GGWO
sing with me now.
You can have it I dont want it its to fake for me,
hey its too fake for me, hey its too fake for me.
********************************

OK...lets address one by one your challenges to me, since you imply that I "think" these things are "ok" when you don't know me at all.
***************
#1 -- it is ok to molest children -- now neither of us are fools. I personally haven't ever seen or heard of it happen in all the years I've been here, and I've heard some real juicy gossip over 12 years time. As a nurse, I would be legally obligated to report ANY suspiciousness of anykind in that area. I took an oath when I was licensed. I also took that same oath when I was a foster mother. Same standard applies. You see it, you report it, you suspect it, you report it.

So. You obviously "knew" something about someone being molested, or, you witnessed it, or you did it yourself. (Well, lets cover all grounds now...ok???)

Did you report it both to the police, and Child Protective Services, and the Dept. of Social Services?????????? If not, WHY????

Tell me you did so I can go and verify it.
Otherwise YOU are as despicable as the molestor if you knew it was going on and YOU DID NOTHING!!

If it was heresay and you had no proof, I would have had the person I listened to the gossip from prove it to me first hand.

I won't even lower myself to my adamic nature to slam you on that one.
So, are we keeping score??? I won on that issue which is not impressing, believe me. I won't even insult your obvious lack of intelligence asking me these questions to begin with. However, to humor you I will answer all of your challenges.

************************

#2. "Its ok to beat your wife." I'll use "spouse." I divided my reply on this one to (2) questions for you.

Question A -- Was it you that was beaten? If so, I'm sorry you went through that experience. If you didn't get help, I pray you get it now. I know that Pastor doesn't tolerate that kind of emotional and physical abuse nor would he encourage anyone to stay in a marriage where that is going on. I know that, first hand. I was present when he counselled someone that IF, AFTER PRAYING, "God" led them to leave their husband, He would stand behind them and she wouldn't be shunned for divorcing him. The wife got out of the marriage six months later.

I have a friend who was in that situation where her prospective husband to be threatened to beat her, grabbed her rather "strongly" by the mid-forearm and hurled her into the wall. She herself didn't need pastoral counsel as to whether she had "grounds" to end their relationship. Their "engagement" was broken that same day. Thank God Pastor and Barbara were there afterwards for her emotional support through that time. (This was 3 weeks before their wedding was scheduled). All those plans made to marry the "man of your dreams" -- how quickly it can all end. She would have had one miserable marriage. She also could have ended up dead.

Question "B" -- if it wasn't you, were you privy to a situation involving domestic abuse? If so, if you didn't report it, or try to help the person get out of that abusive situation, you are equally as guilty in my opinion. I knew of someone who called Grace Hour back in the early 90's and was fearful of her life, and Pastor Veader took the call off the air...and offered this person a way out of their house safely, where they could be hidden and protected. There are/were ways out. Police, Social Services, House of Ruth (for battered women)...Pastor Veader...(no sarcasm meant here in any way towards him, he was a major help to that person even though they didn't take him up on the offer at the time).

***********************

Issue #3. Do I think its "ok" to have an affair?

My reply -- and pay close attention to it too.
No. Its not "right." Do you think its right?

Whats worse (in my opinion since its my dime)... is publically dragging someone's past out in public. A past sin that is under the blood once someone repented of it. If God doesn't touch it then, why should we???

I am assuming this is regarding the Pastor Paul/Margaret Lang situation........ AGAIN......ok, Pastor Paul fell. She fell. Adam Lang fell taking the money. The person posting it initially on the internet fell (on this forum). Louise fell for printing it in full detail. Fights ensued...discipline Pastor Paul...print the story...people have a "right" to know..."he should step down"...

My God its gotten out of hand. I believed Pastor Paul when he posted that he repented. To me, he didn't have to do that. It should have NEVER been brought up. I know we all have gone around and around with discussing something that none of us have the right to play God with. I wept the day I read part of the story Louise posted.

Doing that makes me wonder where people's hearts really are at, and if they truly do have any kind of relationship with the Lord, or are they just merely interested in wounding others as a payback???? Enough said by me many times on this issue. Lets drop it.

*************
#4 I was NEVER threatened with loss of salvation for leaving GGWO. Some will say "yeah, right."
Its true. I left. During that time I posted early on in the forum. Not once was I threatened with that here in GGWO. However, in the other churches (2) in this area I attended prior to coming here, I was most certainly threatened that if I left those churches I was NOT saved and DIDN"T HEAR GOD!!!

NEVER has that been done by any GGWO Pastor to me and God knows I"ve dealt with many of them over the years. I'm going to tie this answer in with the remainder of your questions...your last statement..."as long as I am soulwining and loyal to the vision of this ministry."

Well, I'm in deep crap then...I don't go soul winning. Strike me dead God, I'm in big trouble now here with the soulwinning police!!!!!!!!

I can't go physically. I utilize my time investing in people's lives. I have served countless body members in our home in various ways, parties, BBQ's, raps, bible studies, dinners, breakfasts, lunches...midnight gatherings after banquets...taking people out...housing up to 20 people convention week (except this year)...and taking in others to live with us on and off. I'm not tooting my horn. We all have our gifts and callings before the Lord. I want to go soulwinning on Saturday mornings badly. I do what I can when I'm at a restaurant or in a store somewhere, I share the gospel that I do my best to live.

As far as being loyal to the "vision" of the ministry, well I guess I've failed there too.
I don't really have loyalties to anybody. I learned that the hard way before coming to GGWO.
My loyalty is to God. I miss the mark many times and all I can do is the same anybody else can -- confess it and move on with God.


Hope i cleared up your very concerned issues that you posted. You were up so late posting.
I too was up but thought I'd give you the courtesy of my reply before signing off for the night.

Any further questions I'll be happy to accomodate them in a timely fashion.

Maria T.

[Anonymous (141.157.104.97)]

the only positive thing would be for this church to end - or for the real grace christians to step up and take it over

[Anonymous (4.139.12.4)]

A positive thing about Greater Grace is that God is exposing many of the lies and cover ups in these last days of Carl H. Stevens, Jr's. life so that he might repent before meeting God "face-to-face."

[Anonymous (141.157.104.97)]

great point =) i have to say i love this forum

[Anonymous (67.163.201.62)]

One of the great things is that you can have an affair, then tell others you have repented, and still keep preaching without any accountability like in real churches.

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

the Praise and Worship is pretty good.

[Anonymous (68.55.83.36)]

This so called ministry has not positives you people need to go to God in fasting and prayer so you can know and except the truth
I bet anyone who does this with on open heart to God and no one else will be changed

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

do something Satan doesn't want you to do tonight....PRAY

[Anonymous (141.154.144.33)]

Anon 68...do something we want you to do....stop screwing up the board and go pray