What GGWO is afraid of

[Bob Brinton (151.203.153.107)]

They don't want us to have unity, except with their abuse. Bob

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

i could be wrong and this is only conjecture but i think there are atrosities worse than anyone of us can imagine that went on that they are afraid will be uncovered.

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

and i think i spelled atrocities wrong but ah who cares... its not a spelling bee :0)

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

I agree with you both...and Margo I am so totally glad this isn't a spelling bee...there are many many past sins they are afraid maybe uncoovered and are running scared.

Roberta

[Anonymous (67.163.201.62)]

"Their sins shall find them out"

[Bob Brinton (151.203.144.204)]

My brother David was in real estate for a while; and yesterday he told me that you never put mirrors on the ceilings and walls in order to increase the value of a property. It does just the opposite; no matter the location. He was told that by those he worked for at Century 21. Bob

[Bob Brinton (151.203.163.233)]

bump

[Anonymous (70.17.131.60)]

.

[Dave (4.156.90.170)]

Are Pastor Carl Stevens and GGWO afraid to acknowledge
that during the years 1960-1987,
that Pastor Carl Stevens
[and The Bible Speaks]
believed that God's name was "Jehovah"

1960 was the year in which Pastor Carl Stevens said that he received a promise from God
that all of his messages would be anointed.

Yet this was a period in Carl Stevens life that he believed that God's name was "Jehovah"

In the 1990's, on The Grace Hour,
Pastor Carl Stevens ackowledged openly,
that he had believed that God's name was "Jehovah" for about 33 years.

DID PASTOR CARL STEVENS BELIEVE
THAT JEHOVAH WAS ANOINTING EACH AND EVERY ONE OF HIS MESSAGES
DURING THE YEARS 1960-1987??????

Pastor Carl Stevens has spoken very negatively about the name "Jehovah",
during the last 11 years or so!!!!!!!

Does Pastor Carl Stevens need to repent to "Jehovah",
for his negative teachings about "Jehovah"
for these last 11 years or so?

What is GGWO afraid of?

Dave

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

they are afraid that people will find truth .. and will go to a FULL gospel church

[Lori Argenzio (141.157.115.228)]

What is GG afraid of? <FONT COLOR="ff0000">The big bad wolf?</FONT>

[Maria T (70.16.5.247)]

LOL Lori!!

The big "bad" wolf...I think truly what people are afraid of is seeing themselves as they truly are in the mirror before the Lord. I know for myself personally, it was not ever pleasant facing who I was in the mirror, but when God gave me a revelation of who I am NOW before Him, it made a total difference in my life.

Giving up status, reputations, years of friendships -- thats one reason why nothing is being done. People's whole lives have been in this church. The cost for standing up for the truth and what is right before God is a high cost and a high price to pay. You literally lose everything if you stand up for what is right and it is contrary to what is said/done at our church. Families have been torn apart. Brothers and sister who no longer speak with each other because of these issues going on right now at GGWO. It breaks my heart. Some people refuse to see what is going on right around them because then it makes them accountable before God. Its easier to believe a lie and live that lie than to face the truth and to stand up for what is right.

Until there is a true surrender of hearts before the Lord and a true humility and meekness in the heart, those that are too proud to do the right thing fearing being seen as a failure before their friends and families may seemingly get away with things for now, but in the end, they have to face the Lord face to face...and on that day is it possible to consider Him saying to them..."when you knew the truth, WHY did you still speak the lies." WHY was your position in leadership more important to you than the lives of the people I put under you to lead??? WHY was your pride more important than laying your life down???


The "big bad wolf" could indeed be themselves!!!
Now these are solely my thoughts, not meant to instigate an argument and not attacking ANYONE on here. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Maria T

[Izziesoul (209.6.151.215)]

Maria: Well said. I truly have such compassion for all of the body members currently at GG right now. How awful to have the one force in our lives that is suppossed to unite us be the tool that is being used to separate us. It is so heartbreaking what is happening in the name of our wonderful Lord.
You were not antagonistic in your post at all you stated beautifully the struggle and pain that is being experienced.
As I have said before we are a family in Christ, and as should be in any family your pain is our pain.

In Christs Love, Iz (Linda)

[Nancy Curra (172.140.67.87)]

The sweetest thing is humility. I love when God breaks us and brings us low. I don't always like the process but the outcome is so cleansing. When God brings us to repentence we are released, refreshed, renewed and those around us are too. Forgiveness flows like a river and mercy reigns.

Although people see Christ in the Spirit filled believer they often are more attracted to Him when they see a person who has sinned and in humility admits it and is cleansed.

They see the hope they have in Jesus in our imperfect state. It is sad that men of God, leaders, pastors such as these will not taste the sweetness of this cleansing and see the beauty of wholesomeness they bring to others in their repentence.

I pray that fear of men and pride would be trampled on by God so that we all come to the sweetness of the flow of mercy that true repentence and forgiveness brings.

I know you all read this board. Please admit where it all went wrong. It would be very sad indeed to see what little flame is left to go out. And how said for the precious believers and missionaries who have been blinded by the light to be blindsided one day when the flicker of GG goes out.

We are all sinners, all in the same boat, and family in Christ. We have the bond of the Blood of Jesus. We should be able to communicate. Not all this shhhh don't talk about it.

Pastor has very obvious problems not just now but ongoing. Pride cometh before the fall. If you Jonathans of pastor really love him as you portray then why would you cover? Hide things when we already know?

Isn't it best just to be honest and say from the pulpit we have erred? Would this not demonstrate a great big Christ to the precious trusting ones who sit in the seats each service?

Young people in this church now are so confused and this is tragic. Quit ye like men, isn't that what our Lord says?

Fear of man is a snare and pride is satan's sin.
Cast it off, be free and released. Come forward and have a change of mind and heart. Respect and trust are earned.

You can't call yourself a pastor with all honesty if you lack the qualities thereof. Love is the greatest of these. O for the sake of the people who trust you, turn please turn.

[Anonymous (63.27.73.91)]

They're afraid of the truth.

[Izzysoul (209.6.151.215)]

A secret kept in the dark is a lie; the truth brought forth into the light is a testimony.

[Maria T (141.157.76.146)]

Thanks Linda...what you said is truth also.

[Anonymous (24.91.61.194)]

To Izzysoul,
It's very sad to read some of your old postings.
P.M treated you very well, as did everyone.
The homeless person did not get kicked out.
First the meeting,THEN the food. I know for a fact, I was there.
Also, they serve free meals every Sunday.
They treat people very well.
Ask the many in homeless shelters,
prisons, and battered women's
shelters and nursing homes. GGCF is there.
Well, Hare today, gone tomorrow!
Joking aside, I do wish you had stayed longer
and really got to know us.
I don't see how you could have
made such a quick judgment. We thought you
were very sweet and funny too!
From a friend, (I thought)

[Izziesoul (209.6.151.215)]

I am so sorry but the event in which I spoke to only one person on this board (I beleive that is true but whatever) in an e-mail had nothing to do with a meeting. We were preparing for a party several years ago. I don't know who you think I am, the name is right, but I was there for over a number of years. I lived what I lived. I didn't imagine what happened there, and I also had that confirmed by other people. I was invited out to lunch by people I thought were "friends" who tried to get the names of those who confirmed what I was feeling, I didn't rise to the bait and will not do so now. My problems with GG were of many levels and were not llimited to your church. I am only saddened that it happened.
I wish you the best in all that you do and by the way I think it is wonderful that your church is now reaching out to so many and bringing them to God's word. I hope that it is in the right spirit. I wish no one harm. I am quite happy and filled with my love for the Lord. I hope the same for you. I have found some answers here that have been bothering me for a long time and that is a good thing. One of those answers came from you, and I thank you for that (in your posting) I pray for all of GG and hope that resolve is in God's will. God Bless You. Linda


In Christs Love,

Linda (Izziesoul)

[Izziesoul (209.6.151.215)]

Sorry, I posted this P.S. on the wrong thread.
I do stand corrected, I may have mentioned the incident on another earlier post, so forgive me for that. However, I know what happened, and there were no meetings that you speak of when I was there as I said this was a party. And there were but 5-6 people in the room when it happened and that was it. Sorry different person different event.
God Bless

[Anonymous (63.27.79.5)]

Izziesoul are you Linda Canino?

[Izziesoul (209.6.151.215)]

No 63 I am not. I remember that name though.
Was she a speaker for GG? For some reason I remember her name associated as being a speaker at one of the larger women's events. Could that be right? Iz

[Anonymous (63.27.79.5)]

Former head of Women's Ministry, Dean of Women and wife of Ed Canino.

[Anonymous (24.91.61.194)]

Well, Iz,
I wish you all of God's best.
I just remember your big smile
and funny sense of humor.
You made me laugh right out
loud alot!!
I do hope you find (or have already found)
a church that will meet your needs.
But remember, that no church is perfect.
We do the best we can to follow Jesus Christ.
And YES we fail.
~D~

[Izziesoul (209.6.151.215)]

I know that no church is perfect, as no person is perfect. I had such a love for GG. When I first went there I thought, this is what I always thought a church should be like. I loved Pastor, and my expectations of him were not so high that I always knew he was just a man. I thought Mrs. Pastor :} was one of the most wonderful women I have ever known. I think of her often with nothing but love and great joy at having known her. I will always feel that way. I was very, very hurt by things that happened and it wasn't just that.
There were other things that weren't just inside your church, even then I knew something wasn't right with Baltimore although I wouldn't say it.
If I tried to bring something up I was told I just didn't get it or I wasn't listening, or I shouldn't ask. And that was body members. But somethings didn't make sense and some people (who shall remain nameless) didn't always make me feel like I was listening to the Word of God. Things I heard on the Grace Hour and tapes made me uneasy many times. And I could go on but there isn't really any point. It is time for a new day.
I do believe you know who I am, but I don't think that we knew each other long. Did you come near to when I left? May I ask who you are? If you would like you can e-mail me at sundayhare@yahoo.com I would be glad to e-speak with you.
I know that for a some time PM was very good to me, but I was good to GG too. I did a lot there and was involved in a lot of things. I did it with a joyful heart, that is why it was so hard when things went wrong. But it is all in the past now and I am hoping for all the body at all the GG churches that a great healing can begin and that God will reveal the truth in His time, whatever that may be.
Sometimes when we have been hurt or mislead we lash out without meaning to hurt anyone. What has been hidden in our hearts come out in the most unexpected ways. Sometimes through our sinful mouths. I think that is probably why the Bible makes such a point in letting us know how evil and powerful our tounges can be. I don't hesitate to apologize if I hurt you. That would get us nowhere.
I have been studying under Charles Stanley (Bible Study) and have been going to a new church after being in a Independant Baptist church for some time. But I am at peace. I have Bible Study with some cousins who are Christians. So, I am fine. I thank you for your kind words. Your heart is one of the Lord. Please feel free to post to me anytime if you don't want to e-mail.
In Christs Love Always,
Linda (Izziesoul)

[Anonymous (63.27.79.5)]

Why some subtopics are being deleted?
Who's doing that?
Is anybody modering this Board?

[Anonymous (24.91.61.194)]

Hey girlfriend,
I just emailed you.
~D~

[Izziesoul (209.6.151.215)]

Heidy HO: sorry but I didn't get it yet. I will keep look when I am home again. thanks and have a great day. Iz

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

do something Satan doesn't want you to do tonight....PRAY

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

aw, c'mon...be a little more original.

[Anonymous (151.203.163.174)]

,

[Anonymous (67.243.240.182)]

Do something Carl Stevens doesn't want you to do tonight...
Read factnet.

[Anonymous (63.27.80.215)]

What is GGWO afraid of? You've got to be kidding - THE TRUTH!

[Dave Carson (67.210.237.31)]

They should be afraid of "the greater condemnation".

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

They should be afraid of the judgement of God:

Jeremiah 23:1 "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!" declares the LORD. 2 Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are tending My people: "You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds," declares the LORD.

They're probably more afraid they'll have to get real jobs http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

[Anonymous (67.193.44.187)]

LOL
after having been around the inner circle, that is true.(about getting jobs in the real world)

there is only so much they can do with some of those multi-level marketing schemes that P.Robinson, P.Paul, and Baker took part in and promoted among others.

Having to go outside the little bubble of greater grace world outreach after having spent their entire adult life their would send them all in to a downward spiral of depression as they had to live out some of the things they preached to others for so long.

Of course they could work for steve taylor at sub-livable wages.(yuk, yuk)

[Dave Carson (65.234.187.206)]

One friend who had also been on staff in Baltimore told me he'd give anything to see Dan Lewis operating heavy machinery on a construction project. What a sight!

[Anonymous (67.19.163.20)]

You're such an ass.

[Dave Carson Youre Such an Ass (65.234.187.206)]

My, we're running over with creativity tonight. Could it be an anointing?

[flowing with creativity (67.19.163.20)]

okay. your friend's such an ass.

[Anonymous (67.19.163.20)]

Hey, where did the infamous Margo go?

[RJ (151.203.163.174)]

In light of the obvious plot to wreck the sexual abuse thread, they particularly are afraid of the truth that there are kids in the ministry who are sexually abused by members and staff.

[Maria T (141.157.46.56)]

RJ...do you have real accountable proof of these alleged abuses??

Thats some heavy accusation there my friend.
Not meaning to argue...but have these people come forward themselves - like to the Baltimore Police, etc, and made any kind of formal complaint against GGWO????

Not starting a war here my friend...just rather concerned because of that one poster that was exposed to be a liar...

Maria T

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Maria, I recall that the "Police Investigator" was exposed as a fraud by Skeet. Click here:

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2950.html?1093688095#POST69091

[Roberta (151.203.163.174)]

Maria, here is one example

Concord Monitor and New Hampshire Patriot
Monitor Publishing Company
P.O. Box 1177
One Monitor Drive
Concord, New Hampshire 03302-1177

Main phone number 603-224-5301
Customer service 603-224-4287
Toll free (NH only) 800-464-3415
Business office Fax: 603-228-5868


LACONIA (NH)
Concord Monitor

By REBECCA TSAROS DICKSON
Monitor staff

LACONIA - A former deacon of the Bible Speaks Church was found guilty yesterday of having sex with a 13-year-old girl he met through the church.

Christopher Rogan, 43, of 24 White Rock Circle, Tilton, was convicted in Belknap County Superior Court of one count of aggravated felonious sexual assault, a Class A felony. He will face 10 to 20 years in state prison at his sentencing Nov. 11.

Prosecutors say the victim saw Rogan as a father figure after they met at the church in Lakeport, where he was a deacon. Rogan was accused of assaulting the victim repeatedly from June to September of 2001. Prosecutors say she did not report the abuse until September 2002.

Initially, the Belknap County attorney's office brought four aggravated felonious sexual assault charges against Rogan, alleging he engaged in multiple sexual acts with the girl. The additional charges were dismissed, Deputy Belknap County Attorney Wayne Coull said, after questions were raised in court about the frequency of the acts.

(this is true, I checked it out)

**********************************

The abuse I know of personally was reported to GGWO, Maryland Children's services and Maryland PD.

I know also from personal testimony of 6 cases that were revealed to me inconfidence by people who are now adults. The people, kids and adults that contacted me via email from the factnet thread were in the double digit category. No names were given nor asked for. Contrary to the prevailing opionon I am in no way using this as a way to tear down GGWO. They are doing a great job of ythat all by themselves.

In Lenox it was well known among the teens, they told me so, that one particular PASTOR was nicknamed "The Space Invader" because of his penchant for standing too close, touching too mauch and for his suggestive remarks. He was "caughy" more than once in compromising situations with teenaged girls on campus.

I personally know this goes on. I personally know the inappropriate conduct of members and leaders at GGWO over the years. Does it not follow that if Carl has been inapproprtie sexually, that other might also be the same. I recalll many trips on soul winning blitz busses watching pastors attempt inapproriate contact with college and highschool students.

Tell me.,...in a cultic environment where the pastor is always right, how free would these people be about coming forward? You're damned right they aren't going to be free to com forward in many cases. The kids are trapped by an abusive church that preaches false reverence for the pastorate, they have parents who are indoctrinated to not believe their kids and the kids then have no place to turn.

I know what I am talking about in this case. I am not so naive that I believe every report of sexual misconduct. The Police Investigator from the other thread hid their identity well, but what they reported upon, the false accusations of rape are absolutely true. Iknow this from first hand knowledge.

I warned people, parents to not send their children to the Christian Day School because I know for a fact that pedophiles in past years have been discovered as teachers and shuffled off to other day schools in the GGWO system. I warned parents from sending their kids to Camp Life because I know they do not screen the people they have for camp counselors and I am aware of at least one person connected to CL that is a known molester...known BY GGWO and it is still covered up. I personally reported what I know to the church, Maryland cildrens services and Maryland PD. But because the church does not willingly participate in investigations, nothing is ever done. It never has been, it never will be. Has the person I reported hurt one of the CL kids? I don't know. But the fact that this person, KNOWN by the church to have enganged in this behavior in past yeaars is allowed to be in close proximity with other people's children....years and years of bus ministry, youth groups, CL...this is wrong.

The despair in the contacts I have had with the kids who have emailed is heartbreaking. I did what I could to help...I give them phone number to call, I encourage them to make it stop by calling a Christian counselor, 911, Rape Crisis Counseling Centers....tell tell tell.

There is nothing so repugnant as men of God who rape children and are allowed to get away with it, leaving destruction in their wake. I will speak out against it for as long as God allows me breath. I will do what little good I can to convince these kids that God DOES love them and that these men are doing evil.

What I can prove I will. What I can't I will bang on the gates of heaven for in prayer. Anyone who comes to me for help will get it even if they are lying to me...

The problem is real, rampant and anyone who doesn't want me to speak out (not necesarily meaning you Maria) will just have to deal with the fact that I know God has given me a heart full of love and purpose for the people abused by so called men of God and that I will never quit helping whoever I can help.

[Anonymous (24.58.114.87)]

Dave, really lets be honest, there are much bigger issues than worrying about the name "Jehovah" i mean there are people going to hell every single second and we want to sit around here and squabble about the name jehovah? i think there are much better things to worry about.

i don't want to sound like i'm coming at you or anything, but the way i see it is that God said to Moses, "you tell them I am that I am!" in other words He told Moses to tell them to shut the hell up! parden the expression there!

i'm being sarcastic of course!

[Dave (4.156.90.145)]

On Monday, August 30, 2004 - 06:33 am
Anonymous (24.58.114.87) said:

>>>
Dave, really lets be honest, there are much bigger issues than worrying about the name "Jehovah"...
>>>

Anonymous (24.58.114.87),
Possibly you should mention your concerns to Pastor Carl Stevens.

Pastor Carl Stevens continues to mention God's name "Yahweh"
in anointed messages that are played on The Grace Hour.

I don't think that Pastor Carl Stevens has changed his belief that "Jehovah" is a hybrid name
that has no meaning.

He makes no attempt to hide this belief.

The way Pastor Carl Stevens saw the "Jehovah" issue
[in his message at the 2002 conference in Las Vegas"]
was that if there were any pastors present at that conference who called Jesus Jehovah,
they were ignorant and needed to repent.

Pastor Carl Stevens explained to those at the conference that God's name was "Yahweh".

THAT IS WHAT PASTOR CARL STEVENS,
AND PASTOR PAUL STEVENS,
AND PASTOR STEVE STEVENS
AND DR LEWIS ALL BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pastor Carl Stevens also explained to those at the conference that Jesus's name was "Yahweh" also.

[e.g. Jesus is Yahweh incarnate, and as such his name is Yahweh, also]

Pastor Carl Stevens has not mentioned specifically
[as far as I know]
that there would be loss of rewards at the Bema Seat,
for those who believe that God's name is "Jehovah"

But Pastor Carl Stevens certainly has said that the issue of God's true name, will be a Bema Seat issue.

Dave

[Dave (4.156.90.145)]

Just in passing, Pastor Carl Stevens has acknowledged,
[in the live section of The Grace Hour]
that he had erroneously taught that God's name was Jehovah for over 30 years.

Pastor Carl Stevens admitted this on The Grace Hour in the late 1990's.

So it is quite possible,
in his prayer life to "Yahweh",
that Pastor Carl Stevens has repented of teaching God's name as "Jehovah" for over 30 years.

And by the way, in my prayer life, I am now addressing God by the name "Yahweh"

Dave

[Anonymous (24.58.114.87)]

call God Skippy i don't care! is it really a life and death issue?

God's got bigger issues on his mind than just sitting up there worrying about some shmoe calling him Jehovah or Yahweh, just to be safe, call him BIG DADDY! or Big D for short!

[Anonymous (219.77.83.148)]

Dear Dave,

Please don't take the bait of 24.58 who is trying to provoke you. I appreciate you sharing about your findings on the name of God, and VERY happy that through your much prayerful searching He revealed His name to you and gave you His comfort. 24.58 is a very cruel person and he tries to distract and provoke people here when discussion comes to very important points. Again, I am happy for you, and please do not discuss the name of God issue with 24.58 because ut would be like casting pearls before the swine.
Love you Dave.
A.

[Anonymous (69.44.61.197)]

Oh my Yahweh Dave, you're still at it!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

24.58 is a troll. Starve him.

[Anonymous (63.27.31.142)]

FYI 64 this is copied from another thread...


Anonymous (63.27.31.142)
Monday, August 30, 2004 - 12:30 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't 24.58 the one who started LIQUID WAVES O' STEVENS?


Anonymous (63.27.31.142)
Monday, August 30, 2004 - 12:32 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous (24.58.114.87)
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:05 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry I just had to show you all this site, i'm not sure what to make of it...

http://www.geocities.com/toolmahass/Liquid_Waves_O.htm


Anonymous (63.27.31.142)
Monday, August 30, 2004 - 12:33 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What gives 24.58...you create a mocking website then you get on Factnet and attack people?

HYPOCRITE!


Anonymous (63.27.31.142)
Monday, August 30, 2004 - 12:35 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOK THE IP IS IDENTICAL!

Anonymous (24.58.114.87)
Monday, August 30, 2004 - 07:23 am

Care to explain 24?

[Anonymous (24.58.114.87)]

HYPOCRITE! no a hyporcrite is somone that makes websites and is says things hurtful to others all the while telling others not to do it!

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous (24.58.114.87)]

(219.77.83.148) i'm only saying that there are much bigger issues at hand, people are going to hell every second of every day and some of us want to worry about what we should or shouldn't call God! you really think God really cares all that much what you call him? he's probably just happy to hear from some of the people here!

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/

[Dave (4.156.90.225)]

Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 06:13 am
Anonymous (233.58.114.87) said:

>>>
i'm only saying that there are much bigger issues at hand,
people are going to hell every second of every day
and some of us want to worry about what we should or shouldn't call God!

you really think God really cares all that much what you call him?
he's probably just happy to hear from some of the people here!
>>>


Pastor Carl Stevens has made the issue of the name "Jehovah" into a very serious issue.

In 2002 at a conference in Las Vegas he said that if there were any pastors here that called Jesus Jehovah,
they were ignorant and needed to repent.

Pastor Stevens told those at the conference in no uncertain terms
that not only was God's name "Yahweh",
but that Jesus's name was "Yahweh" also.

Maybe Pastor Carl Stevens is right,
Maybe Pastor Carl Stevens is wrong.

How many members of GGWO have been taught that Jesus is Jehovah incarnated?

DO THEY TOO NEED TO REPENT???????????????

Dave