RED PAUL

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

Were trying to get total number of Red Paul supporters and pastor supporters.

[Anonymous (24.91.243.180)]

one vote for red

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

one vote not for red

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Hey 2nd generation'ers isn't it past your bedtime?

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

HE IS REDDER THAN RED, HE IS RED PAUL!!!

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Why do you call him Red Paul?

[Anonymous (24.91.243.180)]

only a select few may know

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

many know silly boys

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

how long did it take you to come up with that chief

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

place your vote and leave thats all this is for

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

I don't know anyone that is on Paul's side...

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

chalk one more for pastor 2 to 1

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Who goes to Paul's church in Aberdeen?

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

Carl isn't half the man that Paul is.

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Except when Paul does his diet...

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

Mr. Roberts i take it you vote for red

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

Since this the RED PAUL discusion board please reffer to him not as paul but as RED or RED PAUL.
And clearly place your vote for one side or the other.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Not unless you explain why he is called Red Paul

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

He hasn't gone on vacation yet so I can't refer to him as you say. For now he's Pastor Paul and yes, my vote's for him.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

2nd generation'ers, everything is just a big joke to you. But guess what guys, you are accountible also. You know about all the deceptions and hypocrisies. Heck, you mock the hypocrites. Produce mock their board meetings in Saturday Night Live videos... and you know, all quite funny. Except people are getting hurt. And mocking the hypocrisy but going along just the same and not having the guts to stand up for what is right makes you just as guilty as them. You guys know all the lies and just laugh it off. Maybe you should use your cleverness for good and DO something!

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Does anyone have a list of Red Paul supporters?

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

that was a good post 64.12 @ 11:32

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

Names are not important, but numbers are.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Thanks Friend, These are all children.. some should be grown men, but they are children. Leader's children I might add.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Very accountable children, the ones that know EVERYTHING and DO NOTHING

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

So what would you like us to do. What is right or what you think is right.

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

70.16.27....
What do YOU think is right? All joking aside, I'm very interested to know.

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

I believe that A man in a position of power doesnt have the right to manipulate the people he is above.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

So what should you do about that? Make believe it is not happening? Joke about it? Watch people you know your whole life just disappear because they dared speak up?

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

I agree with you.

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

"I agree with you" that's from me, Xavier Roberts... sorry about that. And I was talking to 70...

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

What are they speaking about? And who forced them to leave?

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

They didnt want to get this serious, did they?

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

Apparently I share the board with another AOL user. (Just so you know I'm not schizophrenic)

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Nope, they didn't. Serious or not, they are as accountable as their elders

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

Can anyone answer my question?

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

You'll have to clarify 70.
I didn't see any reference to anyone being forced to leave. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

Well, these people who dissapered because they spoke up, left the church for some reason.

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

I don't know of anyone claiming that they were forced to leave. We all know that Carl Stevens doesn't fire anyone. Maybe Colonel Self forced people to leave. He forced Van Lenintine to leave, I'm sure he could force others.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

who is Colonel Self?

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

Head of security at GGWO.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Oh you mean Tony Selph

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Tony can't force anyone to leave!

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

This talk will get knowhere. Im sure you have your reasons for what you belive, I know I have mine. There is no point getting all "serious" about somthing that is, well, not serious.

[Xavier Roberts (64.12.116.66)]

Won't somebody please think of the children??

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

I am still trying to figure out why he is Red Paul to you

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

what about the children?

[Xavier (64.12.116.66)]

Many summers Pastor Paul would go away on a family vacation. Some of the leader's sons thought it was funny that he always came back sunburned and they nicknamed him "Red Paul." From what I heard Garett Stevens started that whole thing, but I could be wrong.

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Garett? He is family somehow I believe...

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

yawn.....was expecting a more intriguing story

[Xavier (64.12.116.66)]

2nd or third cousin to Carl or something like that.

[Anonymous (70.16.27.227)]

Xavier Roberts it was nice talking to you. You made little sense but thats what I expect from the people writing on this web site. It does take guts after all to voice your oppinion here for that I admire you sir. To 68 all will be reveled in time my friend you just be patient. And dont forget to vote.

[Xavier (64.12.116.66)]

Good night Austin!

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Garrett Stevens is the son of Pastor Peter and Robin Stevens. Pastor Peter is Sherm Stevens son. Sherm is Pastor Carl Stevens cousin

[Xavier (64.12.116.66)]

You're good 149, you should start a new thread entitled "The Lineage of the Stevens Family."

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

55 messages but only a few votes

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

I think we have more than enough threads

[Xavier (64.12.116.66)]

Very true.

[annoyed (141.157.87.67)]

why would you put 'red paul' on here. cause you are sooooo close with him? he probly hates you. and is embarrased you would write that on a public message board where 90% of the people have NO clue what you are talking about. loser. get your **** together!

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Annoyed, Those that started this thread are no friends to P.Paul.

They are elder's children with a mocking spirit. This is what the leadership's hypocrisy has produced in their children. Everything.. everything is a big joke to them. They have lived a privledged, elitest life and have no idea how to identify with the suffering of others.

[Anonymous (68.33.215.37)]

praise God for RED PAUL, and his tender heart for discipling souls, which we all have no doubt experienced

[Anonymous (70.16.20.14)]

Red Paul is mentally disturbed and power hungry. In a time when his father needed him the most he tried to turn others away from him. I cant believe that anyone would even follow Red and expect to be under God's covering. He cares for knowone but himself and will stop at nothing to make things go his way.

[Anonymous (4.139.27.66)]

Are those "helping" and "covering" Pastor Stevens error of his ways Adult Children of Alcoholics or do they have a history of other mental health issue? Curiosity stems fromthe observable co-dependent behavior of the "clean up crew" after "Pastor's" car accident.

Fact is, many GGWO pastor's may be described as: having been married and divorced numerous times, former hit-men, former drug addicts, have formerly resided in mental institutions, been former Vietnam veterans who personify P.T.S.D. [post traumatic stress sydrome] and according to one source, have apparently experienced suicidal ideations.

Some may argue in response, did not God use MANY biblical examples of sinners for his greatest work? True, and in some cases God continues to do His work through the "jaw bone of the ass" at GGWO. However, we need to continue to pray for the emotional and psychological healing of those fomerly and currently involved without and within GGWO.

Unfortunately, as long as there are "dysfunctional people" in this world; organizations and systems, such as Greater Grace World Outreach will continue to seduce and manipulate the naive for their own profit.

ACOA's and others, please seek Jesus Christ's wisdom and some professional help to prevent future seduction into emotionally and/or financially destructive situations.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

70.. You have been lied to. You have been fed the biggest deception and cover-up. SEEK THE TRUTH!

[jessie brunty (141.157.87.67)]

is it really that important to you what people were or did in their past who f***ing cares are you saying you have no past? what did you do? Are you saying you have never touched a drug or drank alcohol or smoked a cigarette. Who really cares what people have done people are not defined by what they have done. Do you even have a brain and are you able to have a complete thought cause if you were able then you would see how rediculous your babbling is!

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Jessie, You are right. The practice at GG of judging everyone from some superior vantage point and decide they "know" them because of gossip that they have heard, is sick. I have found more real friends, saved and unsaved, outside of GG. They don't judge and give "real" grace. They just know you and do not base their opinion of you by what they have "heard" about you or what you have done in your past.

[yummy (141.157.87.67)]

lick my balls!

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Like father, like son.

[Anonymous (67.208.13.194)]

Colonel Self's is a very insecure guy underneath his 300 plus pounds, and his handgun that he carries. He has been slandered by stevens on a number of occasions, (details about his marriage) but always sucked his way up and back onto stevens good side. His situation is such that he would not have a self identity other than "pastors bodyguard" as he is fond of confiding to people..
Just another example of the needy kind of people that stevens keeps under his thumb.
You don't see Selfs wife in church much if ever in the past few years.

[Anonymous (151.196.140.34)]

Hey in case you people didnt notice this is the RED P. PAUL discussion board. Not Red Self!!! Altough he is quiet red also. Lets stay focused on the subject. Since knowone wants to simply place a vote and leave we will send out a ballot in the sunday morning circular. Wait thats not a good idea. If we do that all the people that Tony Self strong armed out of the church wont get to vote. Ok this is what we'll do, along with a ballot at greater grace we'll send one out at that church that all the ex-greater grace members go to, you know the one. HA HA

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

We should all go to the church in Timonium tomorrow...

[Anonymous (151.196.140.34)]

Im afraid I dont know where it is or what its called, but I know its there.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

I'm thinking they mean Grace Fellowship. There is another really nice one on Belair Road (in Kingsville just past Perry Hall) called Grace Community.

[Anonymous (151.196.140.34)]

So that means we have to decide between more grace or more fellowship about grace.

[Anonymous (4.139.6.215)]

NO! PLEASE DO NOT JUMP FROM THE FRYING PAN TO THE FIRE - DO NOT, NOT, NOT ATTEND GRACE FELLOWSHIP CHURCH IN TIMMONIUM!

IF YOU DO IT WILL BE "HERE WE GO AGAIN INTO AN ABUSIVE CHURCH SETTING!"


Grace Fellowship Church in Timmonium believes in submitting to an "elder" for every decision members will make and expects members to "confess their sins" to elders! Heard this with my own ears from a Pastor Leinweber while considering joining Grace Fellowship church after GGWO.

SHEPHERDING BOYS AND GIRLS - SHEPHERDING

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Got any scoop on Grace Community?

[Anonymous (4.139.6.215)]

Think they're affliated with Grace Fellowhsip but not certain. Call Grace Fellowhip and ask.

[Regina (152.163.253.102)]

I have attended Grace Fellowship and it was a breath of fresh air from GGWO. I can't say yes or no to the confessing of elder statement from the above post, but I was impressed with the fact that there was no pressure to conform there and there wasn't alot of show.
Basically, we showed up, took a seat in the chapel, praised God, heard a message and left.

The thing that I was also impressed about was that on the back of their bulletin they had a summary of the months financial statements. I don't think GGWO has ever made that one public.
I'm not attending there anymore because of the "elder" issue as I'm sure many ex-GGWO-ers feel the same. This is just some input so that you can form a more rounded opinion. Of course, you could always attend there for a little bit and see it first hand.

[Jezebelle (141.157.118.147)]

Jessie;

You are so right. I beleive that the only difference between Red Paul and other certain pastors at what was TBS and now is GGWO is that "Red" got caught.
So what, he did what he did. That's old news. Let's move on to something equally as juicy!! Obviously he had a reason for "straying." Everyone whats to blame "Red." I wonder WHY he strayed?? No one wants to talk about that, now do they???

My vote is for RED!

[Anonymous (141.157.122.88)]

Jezebelle,
thank you for the comment and the vote. Everyone makes mistakes, thats not the issue. Knowone has the right to judge him. When a person is in a leadership position he has to understand how his or her decisions effect other people.

[Anonymous (68.34.67.195)]

Jessie: I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say... I'd be interested in your assessment of things at ggwo because you're a 2nd generationer and I have always liked you. Please be more clear. Thanks.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Maybe he was following in his father's footsteps, afterall Pastor did have an affair while his wife was dying. Everybody can deny it, but we were there and you can only play dead and turn a blind eye to it for so long. Then there is Barbara Baum. That is another story all together. Who ordained that marriage? A drugist

[Anonymous (67.208.13.72)]

Actually "Red Paul" was busy pursuing an affair with another mans wife, all the while expelling highschool freinds of mine for much less offenses.
"Red Paul" also took on a rather self righteous attitude at times with his marriage class and in counseling troubled couples. "Red Paul" denied all these
"rumors" until faced with a lawsuit some 2 years later. Jesus did command us to beware the leven of the pharisees.To observe what they say but not what they do. Also the same "judgemental" Jesus
said ridiculed those that preached one thing and did another. Poor misunderstood "Red Paul". I thought you named him that because maybe he finally learned to blush in with genuine shame.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Jessie, long time so see. You sound very bitter, like you used to in high school. Bitter then bitter now some things never change. You could never get a boyfriend back then and it was a shame cause you were so pretty, and the one you really liked (Jason Mecler) liked someone else (Alyssa Byrne). Poor Jessie.

[Anonymous (4.139.3.144)]

"Poor Jessie" for having gone to high school with someone as nasty as you apparently are!

[COG (141.157.77.172)]

Well said 2:04 PM!!

[Sam Spade (201.129.18.104)]

Vote one for a Jesus supporter, as absurd as that may sound. he doesn't quite need my support, rather the opposite.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Anonymous 205.188.117.20, Please do not put my name in such a rude post. Jessie doesn't deserve to have things like that said about her. By the way, I ended up with a better catch. ARBS

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Good for you Alyssa...

[The REAL Jessie Brunty (151.196.128.106)]

Apparently, someone finds it more convenient to use my name than their own name.

A friend of mine called me this afternoon concerned that I had used an expletive in my posting. Until I received his phone call I had been unaware that this chat room existed.

The truth is, before now, I have never visited this site.

Again, and for the record, this is my first and last time on this site. Anything that has been written before or anything that may be written in the future under my name is not me.

I have been falsely represented and do not wish to be any further involved.

Thank you!

[Dylan Donahue (141.157.87.67)]

I find it hilarious that this board is called "Red Paul". I say so because I felt his wrath on many occasions when I was at GGCA. He would often come and interrupt our classes to yell at people for random things. At one point he told me to stop joking around with his daughter or I would be expelled. He was accusing me of mocking the Stevens family. After saying this he launched into some rant about how I "had a rich grandfather" and that I "was the one who never had to worry about money". Not only was this absurd, but also innapropriate to discuss in front of my classmates or anyone else. He would also go looking for for trouble with the students and sending out spies to find out the dirt on personal lives of students. One of my best friends was disciplined heavily for kissing his girlfriend once on the lips, something that Paul didnt even witness but "had a vision about during prayer". Does anyone else find this absolutely absurd, considering the fact that his affair was going on at the same time?

After five years of Greater Grace he pretty much forced me to leave the school saying that I was under "Eagle Vision", meaning that if I did one more thing i would be expelled. So right before my senior year at GGCA, I transferred schools. After that I pretty much shut everything about GGCA out of my mind and havent really thought about it until now three years later. He acted so unjustly towards so many people that i was friends with that I could not believe that he could still be in an authoritative position. Even now I cant believe that people are still following him so blindly. To me, it is not even an issue of him having an affair, (that is a mistake that could happen to anyone, and Im sure he has repented) but the fact that he hads a vendetta out for so many students. I still do not understand this. SO if any Paul supporters can help enlightne me, please do. Other than that I have no idea how to conclude this rant, but i have been wanting to say this for a very long time.

[talkintruth (205.188.117.20)]

Dylan,
Thanks for speaking up. You are not alone either. One of the issues I have had is that the actions (of some in leadership) are a 100% different picture than the one they paint to young people. There is a pressure put on some of the high school students that if they do anything at all that is deemed "unedifying" then they have a one way ticket on a hell bound train. That is a lot of pressure for a kid.

Example, mine were told that even listening to Christian music with a rock beat is from the pit of hell. Baker even talked to parents about it individually. It isn't the words of the music, we were told as parents, it is the beat of the drums and guitar music that is demonic. Are you kidding me? All you have to do is spend a weekend at Creation Festival (in PA every year) and see thousands of youth of all ages worshipping God. Musicians who are sincere in their love of the Lord are reaching a lot of teens. It is heartwarming to see them finish a concert and then come down and pray with the youth, read scripture with them, and then encourage them to listen to a teaching from one of the many well respected pastors from all over the country who attend. Some of these musicians wouldn't get a second thought by GGCA leaders because of dress, appearance or music. Yet they are saying, "Hey look what Jesus has done in my life."

Our kids have also been told that dating is a "NO." To an extent, that is okay. Our older boys go out in groups, mostly with the youth group at church. They like not having the pressure of dating right now, but it doesn't mean they won't ever date. To live a life that GGWO defines as moral is sometimes unreachable to many of these kids. It is not just about premarital sex or other inappropriate behavior, it is about talking alone with the opposite sex, phone calls, saying a bad word, dating at any age, associating with non-Christians, etc....They are being called to live a life where they ask no questions and seek no answers, and this is unrealistic to them.

Are there any of us who have not made mistakes in youth? Haven't we all made some "unedifying" choices in life? I know I have. If they make mistakes, they have to know there is a way back, and a way that does not include public humiliation. Mr. Petrecca (sp?) at the school said that all policies, right down to uniform changes, are ultimately approved by Pastor Stevens. I find it a bit hypocritical that Stevens would beat down the youth with guilt, teachings that they are supposed to blindly accept without any confirmation to back it up, and in other areas unrealistic expectations, etc., when leaders are practicing extreme behaviors themselves.

Students are threatened with expulsion if they cross the lines with behavior that doesn't compare to what the leadership does. Infractions are given out at the blink of an eye. My kids have seen it happen with their friends too Dylan and they were appalled and confused. One person in leadership said to me, "I'm not going anywhere, and we don't have to justify anything. We don't have to explain a thing."

That just doesn't seem to me to be the way Jesus would handle it. It is okay to let people know that sometimes we will all stumble, (even pastors) just know it is Jesus that stands ready to pick you back up. My kids learn much more when they hear teachings from a pastor who is human - a sinner - someone who is real. They can relate to that. They can see themselves there and know they have places to turn if they make mistakes - places where they aren't judged and don't have stigmas attached.


In Christ
TT
P.S. I was amazed to see some of the comments that the kids wrote on yearbooks. Just because kids do the right thing in front of GGCA leadership doesn't mean they have learned. Sometimes they know what they have to do to get by and they do it. Seems like a better investment of time to work through the "issues" with real life long lessons, not just threaten them into doing the right thing for the moment.

[COG (70.16.28.242)]

Dylan;
I totally hear what you are saying!!!
I remember being in college in Lenox and having some of the "higher ups" tell me that God had told them about the things that I had done. They said that "Pastor" had received a anointed message from God about me. Hmmmm, come to find out, it was my dorm mate who had given the "higher ups" the information.

PS. my BIG indecression was that I was hanging out with a guy that was "with the ministry" but much older than me and "not good for me."

I left the ministry in '88. One of my main reasons was because I got sick and tired of people "preaching" at me and not "practicing what they preached" themselves!

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Dylan
**** you loser!!! You are just a kid grow up and get a life.

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

TO: 205.188.117.20
Dylan has got more of it together than you do
LOSER.
I wouldn't doubt that you may be REDPAUL.
RED PAUL is the same guy hiding behind his dads (ministry) money as he accused Dylan of doing.
Talk about LOSERS...
LOL LOL LOL

[Anonymous (68.34.67.195)]

Dylan is a kid and a well-spoken one at that. I knew him in H.S. and he wasn't perfect, but he certainly wasn't "bad." Outside of ggwo, he would actually be seen as a really good kid, that's what makes the torment of him by P. Paul to be so ludicrous. Dylan, I hope you are doing well and I hope the hypocrisy you experienced at ggwo doesn't keep you from pursuing God in your life.

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

I am not questioning Dylan's story, I don't even know him, but before everyone jumps on P.Paul for his "torment", remember there are two sides to every story. And one side can definitely slant things or embellish them. Pastor Paul is not here to give his side. And I do NOT think that vulgar comment to Dylan would be made by him, as someone here suggested.
I will say I find it absurd that someone was disciplined heavily for something that Pastor Paul had a "vision of in prayer". I would like to hear P.Paul's side of that one, because frankly I simply do not believe it happened that way.

[E (141.157.87.67)]

whatever 149!!! you are soooo blinded because the same thing happened to dylan happened to me but i already wrote the long drawn out story and i wont repeat myself. but you can just go on and live your life being suckered by an *******.

[E (141.157.87.67)]

by the way.......the one who wants to say **** you to dylan and for him to get a life because hes just a kid. well that gives him every reason to be on this message board because it is childish, whats your excuse lowlife...

[Anonymous (4.139.6.91)]

Does that make you "childish" for reading this board?

Think about it!

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

E, what's that stand for EASY, are you one of those GGWO easy sluts!!

[Anonymous (4.139.18.208)]

Please, that comment belongs on "Hot Girls of GGWO"

[Anonymous (4.139.18.208)]

Are Bill & Margo Klein attending P. Paul's Aberdeen "affliate" ministry?

If so, did they leave homebase due to financial indiscrepancies within the church's administration?

Bill, you are an astute and successful businessman; is there any empirical evidence of wrongdoing at homebase which would warrant an investigation?

With deepest respect - HELP!!!

If you know this to be true PLEASE come forward and help us to make this corrupt organization financially accountable!

Heresay just doesn't cut it in a court of law and they know it! Definitive proof of wrongdoing is needed to make a difference. Should you know of such PLEASE pray about coming forward and doing the right thing.

[Anonymous (4.139.18.208)]

Don't worry about the "Doctrine of Covering"... it is OBVIOUS that those in leadership DO NOT practice what they preach!

[Anonymous (4.139.15.250)]

Isaiah 42:8 I am the Lord; that is My name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."

[E (141.157.87.67)]

To "anonymous" 152.163.253.102 AKA Regina,
It's funny that you don't have the balls to identify yourself when you call me a GGWO slut. You don't know who you're dealing with which is why I'd advise you keep your mouth shut unless you know what the hell your talking about and who exactly you're ****ting on. Two things, the name is Erin, not easy, and tracking someone down thru and IP address is NOT that difficult. I'd keep that in mind.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

You know, there a thread that specifically addresses cat fights.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Erin,

FYI - the IP addresses rotate here. You may or may not be addressing Regina.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Also, if you really want to be anonymous, stay anon. There are some here that are attempting to identify people by provoking them into revealing themselves.

[E (141.157.87.67)]

I don't really care if people know who I am... I don't go to that church and I'm certainly not worried what people think about me. She just irritated me and needed to be spoken to http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Thanks.

[COG (70.16.29.209)]

Erin:

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif I liked your 8:21 post...LOL!

[Anonymous (4.139.12.1)]

Red Paul is a hypocrite!

How dare he seduce people away to Aberdeen under the guise of being misunderstood by "da-da" and then turn around and be on The Grace Hour with "pops." All the while delivering "cloaked" messages to insure complacency on the part of the faithful at GGWO!

If you don't believe this listen to Wednesday's message of last week in the archives!

GIVE ME A BREAK!!

[Anonymous (68.34.121.207)]

I asure you ....people have not been seduced by Pastor Paul into following him to Aberdeen...as adults we are led by our Lord Jesus Christ...most of us were being prepared long before any of this board stuff was going on.Many choose not to understand that this is a work of God.I place my faith in my creator. God has given me free will and it is my right to choose.I take full responsibility for my choice and look forward ....to the future. All is well with my soul.

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

Well said 68.34.121.207

I to exercise FREE WILL. I am secure in my decision, and look forward to serving God in ABERDEEN ! All is well with my soul.

4.139.12.1

Seems you have some deep rooted anger toward many people in GGWO.
God is still on the throne, and in control. Instead of looking for ways to sow discord, why don't you try to be a minister of reconciliation. I think I read that in the Bible somewhere?

Matthew 5:24;
1 Peter 3:8

[Anonymous (151.196.140.121)]

I would like to thank Red P. Paul for making all of this possible.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

"Be a minister of reconciliation" is GGWO cult speak for "shut up and knuckle under".

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

205.188.117.20
READ THE BIBLE

Matthew 5:24

1 Peter 3:8

Matthew 6:14

2 Corinthians 5:18; the ministry of reconciliation.

GGWO did not write this, the Holy Spirit of God did.

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

What's the matter 205.188, suprised that the Bible actually does say that?

No creative remark for the TRUTH in scripture?

GGWO cult speak...can't wait to hear you explain that one to GOD.

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

No 68.34.76.34,
You actually chose the verses you wanted to attempt to silence 205.188.

There is a time for reconciliation, after repentance has taken place.

And guess what, you or Carl wont' be there at the bema seat watching all the ex GGWO's and TBSers to be tossed into hell for leaving the ministry as Carl would like it.

Or can YOU explain that one 68.34 ?

This should be amusing....

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Nice try, but I am not attacking the Bible as the inspired word of God.

I am taking issue with the use of the inspired word of God to cloak the manipulation of people into believeing that compliance with an ORGANIZATION is the only Godly choice.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

BTW - Thanks, 216.183.

Signed,
Formerly 205.188

[Anonymous (68.33.185.109)]

Don't ever remember saying I agreed with GGWO representation of compliance to their doctrinal beliefs.
I to think that ONLY the Word of God should lead the christian, and when an organization contradicts that, they are off.
I simply listed some verses that do mention a minstry of reconciliation.
205.188 stated that minister of reconciliation was a GGWO cult speak, I think the BIBLE clearly mentions that, whether after repentance or not.
Please do not assume to know my relationship with GGWO.

[Anonymous (68.34.121.207)]

....I don't even know what you are talking about....I'm not following a man as a result of being manipulated in any way shape or form...I will say just one more time....I am led by God.I will pray that you may also find such a clear path for yourself

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Please don't assume to know my relationship with God.

[Dylan Donahue (68.33.176.145)]

To whoever said "**** you" in response to what I said,
Get a grip. Im not as much of a child as you think, and if being 20 years old does make me a child then so be it. I'll say whatever the hell I want, and tell the story exactly as it happened to me. Go ahead and find out the other side of the story. I did not exaggerate or embellish any details, and I only touched on the tip of the iceberg about the stuff that happened at GGCA. And by the way, I'm sure its easy to say "**** you loser" behind an anonymous posting. Very courageous.

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

Well said DYLAN !

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Dylan,

Don't let the personal attacks get to you. It's more of a fear reaction on their part. You have rocked their world by telling the truth. Most of the time it makes them crazier if you ignore them. Just keep telling the truth. By doing so, whether it seems that way or not, you are helping people. Thank YOU for having so much courage.

[Anonymous (68.33.185.109)]

We love ya Dylan. Good to hear honesty on this board for once.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

DYLAN Wow you aer a real PUSSY!!! Keep it up LOSER!! And **** you again!! Ha Ha!!!!

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

if you people are new in the church look up "where did they go" and you will start seeing , that gail kerby, dr satorious, and all the trues of paul stevens hear the storys

[COG (70.16.15.151)]

Dylan;
One of the best ways to deal with things that bother us is to write them down. I am glad that you feel free to share your troubles with us.
Please keep posting.

COG

[Anonymous (70.16.5.148)]

I would have to say one of the best ways of dealing with personal attacks is to kick some ass. So Dylan if you find out who that person is beat the **** out of them.
P.S.
one more vote for Pastor and the good guys!

[Anonymous (4.139.90.26)]

"Red Paul's" probably "blue" over Factnet!

[Anonymous (141.157.46.37)]

one more vote for pastor!

[joshua morin (205.188.117.20)]

dylan how true. isnt it funny that the people calling you a child,hide like little kids behind anonymous postings. what big stong adults they are.dylan bottom line is they have no balls and they wish they could do what you do, say what ever you feel, but they cant, for that you would need integrity. and you have plenty. joshua morin

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

what is going on with pastor puul and what has happened

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

That whole thing is on some of the earlier main threads- April& May I think.

Do you mean why does he have a church outside Balt & some of the folks that left GGWO Balt attend it??

Or do you mean you haven't read the Alan Lang story?

[Anonymous (70.16.13.121)]

All hail Red Paul. Our new king!

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

THE GGWO FACTNET BOARD IS CLOSING IN ON 12.000 POSTS, ALL BECAUSE OF SCREWUPS LIKE REDPAUL AND HIS DADDY.
WHAT DOES GGWO HAVE TO SAY FOR ITSELF NOW?

[Anonymous (216.183.184.253)]

Good question 205.188.117.20

No one from GGWO seems to know what to say.

[Anonymous (67.163.201.62)]

If you actually ask someone from GG,
What can they say?
They can threaten you with eternal damnation as if they hold the keys and not Jesus Christ.
They can slander your name among themselves as they usually do.
They can attempt to wreck your marriage or label you as gay/lesbian if your not married.
Pastor Stevens will attempt to shout over you and avoid the question while accusing you of something.
Pastor Paul will start whining about persecution.
They will resort to the same old tricks but will never admit to a specific sin.
I have known many more unsaved people with more integrity than the leaders in greater grace.
These are aging wineskins that can't hold new wine

[Anonymous (4.139.90.180)]

205.188,

The "body" at Greater Grace have been told by "Pastor"...
"shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
be very, very quiet; DON'T say anything!
Things will die down if we put on a unified front and remain silent!"

Silence, time and few "twisted doctrines" thrown in are enough to silence the masses at GGWO. These tools are the leadership's allies!

[margo (205.188.117.20)]

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! be vewy vewy qwyiet! i'm hunting wabbits!
elmer fudd

[Anonymous (4.139.90.180)]

Margo,

That's exactly who's voice I heard as I wrote my post...cool!

4.139

[margo (205.188.117.20)]

well you know what they say 4. 139 about great minds and all that......... :o)

[Anonymous (4.139.90.180)]

Yes, indeed I do! We'd better keep this "hush-hush" about our great minds cuz Loretta Willets, you know the one with the alleged 140 IQ, might get jealous!

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

we got her beat... i got the alleged 147 and you having the "great mind thinking alike" gotta be pretty close to it :o)

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

wascals

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

wascally wabbit

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

ssshhhh..don't let Sammy know the IQ thing.. he thinketh "females" are much lower on the intelligence food chain...

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

"the entire presence at the St.Patricks' day parade and the IQ was still only in the lower double digits..."

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

But they were having a hell of a good time!

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

i know.. i already took issue on the "female" issue with sammikins

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

It's the Guinness

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

No, on St.Pat's they break out the good stuff..the Jameson

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

thought it was the kool-aid... it goes with quiche!!!

[Joe Mitch (70.16.4.228)]

You two ****ing women talk all this **** but didnt say one thing about Red Paul! What kind of IQ do you need to know this is the Red P Paul thread.

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

what two women Joe? me and...Cordell? hahahaha!
relax... its just an internet message board... jeezzzzzzzz.i think you need to renew your prozac perscription....but here... have a little quiche!

[Anon B (205.188.117.20)]

All the talk about quiche compelled me to visit the grocer's today...pie crust...eggs...

[margo (64.12.117.20)]

how did it come out 205.
in the spirit of this thread... did you think about sharing some with RED PAUL?

[Anonymous (4.139.90.119)]

Joe Mitch,

Your crude and vulgar language verifies your own two-digit intelligence quotient!

4.139 aka was it"noo-noo-naa-naa-nee-nee" Cordell?

[Anon Brief (205.188.117.20)]

It's on the breakfast menu for tomorrow, Margo. I anticipate it being delightful. Hadn't given a thought to sharing, but would gladly feed Paul if he came to my door.

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

Actually I was wrong the first time, it was Lananeeneenoonoo. This was the French and Saunders take off on the 80s girl band "Bananarama."

And anon can you stand the antici...

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

pation?

[Anon B (205.188.117.20)]

Hardly, but I am enjoying it somewhat. Like Christmas Eve...

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

.

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

do something Satan doesn't want you to do tonight....PRAY

[Anonymous (141.157.85.147)]

Hey, does anyone know who goes to P.Paul's church? Does anybody have a friend or knows of anyone that goes there????????

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

I go.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

I go

[Molly (151.196.62.114)]

When and where are the services held?

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

The services are on Thursdays at 7:30 p.m. and Sunday mornings at 10 a.m. Usually they are at the VFW Hall in Aberdeen off of Old Philadelphia Road.

[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

So far what is your take on things? I am speaking in a biblical perspective. Does he seem better more in tune with scripture? Or is it a little GGWO?

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

I think he is annointed (contrary to what the leaders in Baltimore think), he is genuinely broken, and he preaches for 30-45 minutes of good sound teaching.

He is a man who is very repentent before the body, and desires to serve God without all the politics.

As for a little GGWO, don't you think every affiliate would fall in this category?
It's not Baltimore that's for sure.

[Anonymous (67.163.201.62)]

Unfortunately, I believe that will all change in time.

[Anonymous (63.27.12.199)]

What, more fake crying like his brother Steve?
How would anybody in their right mind follow ANY of these Stevens'? They are reputed adulterers and unethical in their handling of God's tithes! Have people have lost what's left of their feeble minds? WHATEVER! What a crock of sh**

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

67 & 63,

You can believe what you want, there are those of us who actually believe GOD has the power to change and redeem lives. Everyone is worthy of another chance. If not, then we should be reading something other than the Bible.
There is a table of accountibility with Pastor Paul that many are not aware of. He deserves to be restored just like anyone of us.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

"There is a table of accountibility with Pastor Paul that many are not aware of. He deserves to be restored just like anyone of us."

Paul certainly deserves to be restored like any other erring brother. But part of that restoration means that he should at least speak out publicly concerning his error, and that communication should include admission not only of the extramarital affair but the defamation of character of the innocent party. He should also be given time to exhibit the quality of being a one woman kind of man--so far he has not taken a breath from teaching his "relationship" classes or other duties. He has gone on business as usual. I am sure that this will make no difference whatsoever to his hardcore adherents--but when we don't hold our clergy accountable we give the enemy opportunity to blaspheme.


Concerning the "table of accountability that many are not aware of" -- why is that? Wouldn't it be a good idea in view of the past to have the "table of accountability" be both biblical and blatantly obvious? The elders in the scriptures are required to EXHIBIT certain qualities. Exhibited qualities are readily observable--in other words it should be well known to the congregation who exactly the elders are. There should be no secret boards nor should the elders be appointed by the Pastor. The elders should be accountable to the congregation as well as to each other.

[Anon Brief (64.12.117.20)]

Well said.

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

Amen.

[Anonymous (63.27.12.199)]

That a' boy Jimmy...Give it to um straight!

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

Why don't you come to service in Aberdeen and ask him yourself. You seem to sit on such a high and lofty seat of judgment. Go to Pastor Paul, or CALL HIM and ASK him. What are you people afraid of? Oh that's right, some of you are not in Baltimore. Makes sense to me that you could know for sure everything that happens here.

That a' boy...give it to um straight?
Who made you judge...wasn't Christ I'm sure!

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

I HAVE SPOKEN TO HIM. And I would do again anytime. Some of them aren't taking calls or answering emails. Thanks for asking.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

And calling someone into biblical accountability is hardly judging him. It is certainly preferable to the insanity going on there now.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Also, before we start hearing all the howling about how long ago the sin was, could you please give me the biblical reference on the statute of limitations on sin?

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

well if he has repented and God has forgiven and forgotten it, you are bringing up something even God doesn't see anymore. why drag it up just because he didnt do it exactly the way you think it should be done, he is still repentant before God and most people know about it anyway, so why make a big scene

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

when peter scibelli and garret stevens were butt lovers, what did red paul say about that?

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

152.163 If he has repented and sought reconciliation don't you think the innocent party would have heard about it by now? The reason it is a "big scene" is because scripture makes it one--it's called being qualified for office--something that few in the GG organization have any concept of. This has been hammered away by many on this site other than me and still some persist in a nonbiblical view of leadership. Obviously this discussion needs to go over to the SQ Memoriam thread--because so many Paul defenders believe that 1 Timothy and Titus do not belong in the New Testament.

64.12 That is uncalled for. Completely.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

So 152.163 I refer you to the Alan Lang story, but of course you will no doubt want to lay blame on anyone but your own favorites.

[Anonymous (4.139.9.224)]

The statute is that if he has repented, it is gone and this is called gossip or maligning. He is a one woman man and has proven it. From what I have heard on these pages is that you have been married more than once. How credible are you? Also, If he has repented, where does it say he should step down for awhile and it is up to you how long. Is that the Jim version of scripture? He has definitely brought fruit that meets to repentance from what I have seen. I go to his church also. He preaches repentance and accountability and has told everyone that he will be accountable to people outside if this church.

[Anonymous (68.33.184.197)]

JF,

Do you go to church in Baltimore? Is Pastor Paul your Pastor? If not then he owes you, NOTHING. It is not your job to ask for repentance from him.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

You people are amazing. This is called calling a person who has been a part of a ministry that has destroyed families and has been personally involved in the near destruction of one in particular into accountability. That is not my version of the scriptures. I am as credible as I need to be because a) I am not an elder b) I am accountable to elders. The number of times one has been married has nothing to do with 1 Tim 3 else a guy could have as many extramarital affairs as he wanted as long as he didn't get divorced!!!! You can read my story and know all you need to know about me. The scriptures say that an elder needs to be above reproach from those without. That is not the case with either Paul or Carl Stevens. That is the Bible version of the scriptures. You don't give the enemies of God opportunity to blaspheme. You don't hawk your book about how great marriage can be while you're having an affair with another man's wife--you don't continue teaching a class on relationships while you're violating your marriage vows. You don't "rebound" into being a one woman man. You exhibit those qualities after time. How much time ought to be determined by reasonable elders. What does this mean to you? :

"But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul. A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away. For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance. He will not regard any ransom; neither will he rest content, though thou givest many gifts."

Don't you think that the innocent party would know if there had been approaches for forgiveness? I can tell you that is not the case. But then something tells me that matters not a bit to you or any of the other automatons.

[Nic (64.12.117.20)]

Being married more than once can not be compared to a situation like the Alan Lang story. There are legitimate reasons for divorce, but no legitimate reasons for what went on in that situation. I do not say this to slam Pastor Paul, who I genuinely like, and who I believe has repented. I just don't think it's fair to compare the situation with him to simply being divorced and remarried. If we started going that route, none of us would be credible or qualified to open our mouths about anything. (Romans 3:19)

[Anonymous (68.33.184.197)]

JF,

I have said nothing about your past marriages. Why, because that's between you and God. But you also should not be asking for Pastor Paul to repent if you do not call him your Pastor. We should be trying to find ways to restore a brother in Christ, not call him out on the internet. If you've asked him PERSONALLY, if he's repented, then that should be the end of the matter. I think Pastor Paul has suffered enough at the hands of so-called Elders, and his father for that matter. At least he is taking steps to correct his walk, and follow after God. This much I have personally witnessed !

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

It is easy to forget that all of us, you included Jim, were once a part of that church. You as a leader benefited from that church. Paul more so, as he was a leader and a son. He is in the same place you were many years ago. His eyes have been opened to the wickedness he was a part of. We all that have left, realize we sinned. We put a man and a ministry before our Savior. Calling into account of all those years and actions is not an easy process. We each have our own personal stuff to deal with before God. I know Paul well, he is dealing and he is processing. We need to have a heart of mercy to all, including Paul. May God bless him and his family. May God Bless us all.

[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

". But you also should not be asking for Pastor Paul to repent if you do not call him your Pastor. We should be trying to find ways to restore a brother in Christ, not call him out on the internet"
Paul Stevens called himself Pastor, he is held to a higher standard according to what was taught from the Pulpit from which he stood.
As far as going on the internet, Paul Stevens is on the radio, he is on the internet, he is on television. He does owe accountability to all those he preached LIES to.
Noone is saying that someone cannot change. I don't think there is one of us who haven't been down that road in some shape or form. I pray that this he has been touched by the Holy Spirit and washed in the blood of Christ. I hope that he has repented before God. But we cannot move on to the future until the reasons for our past are acknowledged, reconciled and repented. Amends needs to be made to those that he has wounded. Starting with Alan Lang.
One cannot help but wonder at the circumstances that brought about this repentence. He seemed to have no choice but to move on. I hope that he is sincere, but I think that time will tell and only God will know and reveal the truth.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

You are not the only one posting here 68 see 4.1's post above. I am answering both of you. It is NOT, 205, ever easy to forget that I was a part of that Church. It is as a part of who I am as my own skin. I am with you on the process, 205, but the process is there in scripture. 68, the matter of the demeaning of Alan Lang still is unaddressed. By Paul or Carl or any of the minions at GG, including some family members on staff there. Why is it okay to let that slide? Is it alright with you that a man trying to win back his family from a cult, who has been labeled mentally unstable, a criminal and had his salvation questioned--accused of sending others to hell and damaging the ministry because he brought it up--all that is okay with you as long as someone says "oops, got caught!" privately and then tells you they "repented of everything in their life they ever did?" What Bible are you reading?

Twist this anyway you want. Yes, he has suffered at the hands of the elders and his father. If you are personally witnessing growth that's good. What I don't understand is what you people actually think "accountability" entails. You are still living in the so-called "I've-rebounded-so-you-can't-touch-me" brand of repentance that is NOT biblical.

So if I am hearing you all correctly, it is OK with you that not only can a man commit adultery with a married woman, take her away from her family by means of twisting scripture and inducing fear, cause a man to lose his job and his home--and have to endure continued advances towards his wife even when the issue is found out--and you participate in a cover up that your father has initiated--and never come clean publicly about it--never even so much as take a breath from teaching "relationship" classes and counseling marriages or from pumping your book on how great marriage can be--all this is okay with you people? All he has to do is say, "Hey, I've repented," however secretly that has supposedly been done--and that's rebound! You are all antinomians, every one of you and you have no concept at all of biblical church discipline. Hide and watch as sooner or later history repeats itself. And if you stay in it and it happens, how will you answer then?

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Jim when you said that most of us don't understand the correct biblical church discipline. Until just lately I didn't know the beauty in it. But it is obvious God wants us to be restored...

People have also said to me privately, that the money was paid to tha Langs, and that should be an end to it. I disagree for all reasons you just stated, but perhaps that is why no one is calling for Paul to finish/complete the process. They may think the $$ makes it a done deal.

On a personal note, I think if we love Paul as we say we do, we would want for him to complete the process, to really be restored, for unless he clears all this up, he is out of communion with God as well as his brother and sister Christians. This will taint his personal walk, his marriage and his call.

It is also something needed for the Langs, BOTH Alan and Margaret.

I am praying Paul will do the right and Godly thing for himself, for the families involved and as an example to the others at GGWO and beyond that Christians can really be restored unto God by following the proscribed method in the Bible.

It is not only biblical, it is reasonable, healthy and clearly the steps needed to restore people...and I believe that's what God wants more than anything...Is.58.

[Anonymous (63.27.18.117)]

No 68 it was YOU who made me the judge! After all it was YOU who initially made the condescending, and might I add, judgementally toned comment "EVERYONE deserves another chance." Evidently, this rule does not apply for me? Perhaps it is reserved for those with the last name of Stevens? You are the personification of the double standard so often found in Greater Grace. One of smooth words found on the lips, or typing fingers, of a hypocrite SOOOOOO typical of GG, be it Aberdeen, Baltimore or wherever! I am what I profess to be, a person sick and tired of GGWO's double standards and abuses! You on the other hand, practice the very things I am accused of so take a good long look in the mirror Pharisee!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Most of us are aware there was a large settlement and part of the settlement included that ALL involved must keep quiet about it. That includes the Langs, the lawyers and PAUL. So tell me how he is supposed to publically confess on this forum without violating the agreement?? It seems that is what many of you want a public confession here. But why just Paul? Any leader that has left needs to confess to those they hurt. ALL THE LEADERS HAVE ABUSED THEIR OFFICE. It is the nature of the game at TBS/GGWO. For every leader that has left, there is someone that has a "story" of a hurt caused by them. So why single out Paul? It is because we have read the Alan Lang story here with horror? It is a horrible story, but guess what? There are hundreds, maybe thousands more just as horrifying. I know many similiar stories, as do most of us reading this forum. The Lang's received remedy for their horror. It was my money, my tithe that paid for their remedy of $500,000. A half million dollars of our hard earned money. All the parties have been silenced by law with that money. It is dead wrong but it is the law.
So what about remedy for the rest of us? Isn't it time to stop pointing the finger at Paul? A public repentance on factnet is not going to change anything. I believe at this point the repentance will be private, between the parties, down the road. It is part of the healing process of leaving this cult. We ALL have much to ponder, to repent of, to heal from. I believe those that continue to attack Paul are hindering this man's process of healing. I believe our focus should be on remedy for all. I think our remedy is our loud voice. We have made quite a dent in this godless group. I see many leaving, I see God using Paul to bring others out of GG, weak and as flawed as he is. The Alan Lang story was horrifying to me because it revealed a sick leadership, very sick. But that sickness was perpetrated on us all. We have all suffered. We should stop pointing fingers at individuals and point at a evil leadership and demand accountability from all of them still in office. Though they will never change as a whole, God will judge this church, He already is. So maybe it is time to stop attacking one of the few leaders that is trying to exit this cult. Where is God's mercy and patience in that? We all need to time. Give Paul time also.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

JF, I must tell you that you do not know what you are talking about. You are obviously listening to the offended parties alone without any objectivity. I know that Pastor Paul asked Alan and Margaret for forgiveness and Alan sent him a note to accept his repentance and said he forgave him. I was here also when all of this was happening. I have never heard Pastor Paul slam Alan from the pulpit or anywhere. I know his father did and so did Pastor Marr. But, even that was in defense of what Alan was doing. I certainly do not think it was right though. It is understood why Alan did what he did, but he attacked in many ways and everyone knew it. Alan never repented to the people that he spoke to. Paul is definitely repentive and it has been over 5 years now. His life has brought forth fruit of repentance and I believe it will continue. I believe he has sought counseling outside the church and is accountable outside GGWO as well. I believe it is time to let him get on with his life with God. Do unto him what you would want done unto you. I encourage you all to lift up Christ and consider His forgiveness as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

When you stand by and say nothing when someone else is being maligned by your father and his henchmen to cover YOUR misdeed--you participate. Yes they are all culpable. None of them are fit to serve in the pastorate. That is what I have always held. The settlement does not prevent Paul from doing what is right. What those of you who insist on staying a part of GG need to do is to scrutinize your leaders in the light of 1 Tim 3 and the requirements for elder/pastor there.

If you go to the Aberdeen church, did you have an election of elders there? Did you choose those elders or did they become elders because Paul chose them? What say does the congregation have in church government? Are you still buying into the "One Shepherd (human)" mentality that Paul is still promoting on radio?

IF Paul is trying to "exit this cult" why has he said on radio and from the pulpit that he is not leaving?

More than once, and not just by me the biblical answer in 1 Tim 5 has been given over and over. Many of you seem to have something akin to that "Stockholm Syndrome" or whatever it is where you have fallen in love with your kidnappers.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

1 Tim.3:1 This saying is trustworthy: "If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble work." 2 An overseer, therefore, must be above reproach, <FONT COLOR="ff0000"><U>the husband of one wife</U></FONT> (a one woman man), self-controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher, 3 not addicted to wine, not a bully but gentle, not quarrelsome, not greedy-- 4 one who manages his own household competently, having his children under control with all dignity. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of God's church?) 6 He must not be a new convert, or he might become conceited and fall into the condemnation of the Devil. 7 <FONT COLOR="ff0000"><U>Furthermore, he must have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he does not fall into disgrace and the Devil's trap</U></FONT>.

The defining phrase in verse two for all the qualities that are to be exhibited in a Pastor is "<FONT COLOR="ff0000">MUST BE...</FONT>" not ought to, not should be, not these are nice examples to aspire to--<FONT COLOR="ff0000"><U>MUST BE</U></FONT>. I am sure you folks will still just not get it.

1 Tim. 5:20 <FONT COLOR="ff0000"><U>Publicly</U></FONT> <FONT COLOR="ff0000">rebuke</FONT> those who sin, <FONT COLOR="ff0000">so that the rest</FONT> will also be afraid.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

Pastor Paul does not believe in the one shepherd doctrine. I do not believe he is trying to exit anything, but he has been preaching on hearing from God and developing your own believer priesthood. He said in his last message, bring your walk with God to church instead of living your Christianity through others in the church. Take what is preached and search it out for yourselves. He said that then the gifts of the Body will be more useful. So, I believe that you have manifested an attitude without even knowing the man. Consider in humility, the lives you are impacting as well as you attack.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Paul Stevens promoted the "One Shepherd" doctrine on radio this week. I heard it myself. If he doesn't believe it and promotes it on radio then he's a hypocrite. Or is he buying time so he can find the right moment to bolt from Dad? There is no clean break occuring here. Believe what you want. You're obviously enamored and unreachable. Hopefully there are others who will mark and avoid this entire organization because of what is here. I am more convinced now than ever that the cultic mentality is just as strong in the followers of Paul as in the followers of Carl. I don't know of many pastors in that entire organization who have an ounce of huevos to really stand up and do what's right. If Paul were doing all these things you say it would be obvious to all and it is not.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Ya know Jim, you seem mildly obsessed with GGWO. Why don't you try to take a break.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Ya know what Joker, I have had some good results with my obsession as you put it.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

You are funny how you make your judgments against people. I am not a follower of Paul Stevens. He did not say this week on radio that he believes in the one shepherd doctrine. I do not know how you come up with that. His eyes have been open to many things. He is very weak at this time and seeking God for his life and his family. He has been destroyed in many ways and this is all difficult for him. I went out to coffee with him recently and he only wants prayer to hear from God and no one else. He needs healing and so does his family. So, he might not be where you want him to be, but he is seeking God. He does not want your voice or anyone else's to tell him what to do. I simply believe him and pray that by the grace of God, he receives the direction and strength he needs to go on with God. Meanwhile, he has helped many people through this time. He has said that he does not care who comes to the church in Aberdeen. He has asked no one to come. He understands that many have gone to other churches and he understands that many will stay in GGWO. I think he feels it is none of his business to get involved in anyone's decision. They, too, need to seek God.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

Joker? Is that representing Christ and in the spirit of reconciliation?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

If he doesn't care who goes to Aberdeen then why doesn't he just give it up and get back under the "covering" of his father. It would be so hard to humble himself, I realize that but it would make a bigger statement to all. He feels misunderstood and he is. Jesus was misunderstood too. AND NO I'm not making reference to Paul being the Son of God as some sick-o's would try to say.

[Joker (68.33.60.157)]

Excuse me, are you saying that Jim IS representing Christ in the spirit of reconciliation?

[joker (68.33.60.157)]

Oh...sorry I thought you were talking to me. I get it. Sorry, again.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

It is not for you to say where he needs to be. He is under the covering of God. People are being led to Christ in Aberdeen and new families are coming out. He is not allowed to preach at GGWO and he is a preacher. He has not left from what I have seen. He appears to be available for whatever God wants, whether it is to stay or leave. But, there are definitely people there in GGWO who do not want him there. He has been treated very abusively by some and you tell him to stay. I say let him here from God. Good-bye all. I don't think I am getting anywhere in talking for another man.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

You know what 141 you can play tag team here with 68 all you want. My response was to him in the spirit he offered his jibe (or her). I HEARD HIM PROMOTE THE ONE SHEPHERD DOCTRINE ON RADIO.

So are you intimating that the Aberdeen Church is not affiliated with GG?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Jim, I am not a follower either of Paul. I don't attend his church. I will never set foot in a GG church. I don't have the Stockholm Syndrome. I am only expressing a differing view, please don't label me because of it.

How long did it take you to recover from the TBS/GGWO experience? To untwist the doctrines in your head? To fall on your face for mercy, how many nights you wake in a cold sweat trying to sort God out in all this? It is a LONG process and you were allowed the time needed. No one was demanding this or that from you in a very public way. I am giving my opinion here Jim, it is my opinion that you lack mercy and kindness for another brother trying to exit GG. I am asking you to consider my viewpoint, that is all. Consider you are not all-knowing, you are not here in Baltimore, you can not peer into Paul's heart. You have two people here on factnet asking you to consider maybe you should stop focusing on one individual and start calling for accountability for all leaders.. especially the cowards that know much and do nothing. Be patient with Paul as God was patient with you. Mercy does not cost you a thing, God freely gives it to all.

[joker (68.33.60.157)]

I really wasn't "jibing" you. I really think you are obsessed with GGWO. Kinda like Roberta, except you're better at the philosophy stuff due to all your schoolin'.

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

"Kinda like Roberta". Obsessed is the wrong word. For me I care deeply for the people I left behind when I left. I care that so many are still being used and manipulated, I care that kids make still be dealing with abuse issues, I care...it's that simple.

I know Jim cares as well. All of the people who are working hard so see that the people be told the truth, no matter who they are, do it because they care.

[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

Again and again I see this, Paul this Carl this when JF clearly bring up doctrine from JESUS CHRIST that makes it clear what GOD wants, what God expects. You all come back with well he is trying, he is this. That is all well and good.
It really is. I pray that Paul becomes a mighty mighty warrior for the Lord. BUT THAT CANNOT HAPPEN until accountability has taken place. HE calls himself a Pastor. The Bible takes (1 Tim 3)
specific passages to address what is expected of Pastors and elders. Once again, the old I love Pastor is standing in the way of what God wishes.
Do not mistake the fact that you are putting Pastor Paul ahead of the doctrine of the Lord.
No one wants to see him be lost and fallen, it breaks my heart to think of the pain he must be in. However my first loyalty is to God and his written word.

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

"Be patient with Paul as God was patient with you. Mercy does not cost you a thing, God freely gives it to all."

Paul's break with this cult must be a double whammy...the confusion and pain must be doubly hard. I think he'll do the right thing, eventually. I would hope he would do as the Bible requires, but for his own sake so he can get on with his life with a clear heart that no longer is so confused. Then healing can really happen.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Never mind.

Look, I know Paul is hurt and feels betrayed. (Gee, I wonder how his dad feels?.)I know some people don't want him at "homebase". And I suppose he can't change either. I don't think he ever emotionally grew up and probably doesn't see the need to. So never mind. Maybe this will be the making of him, as hard as that is to do. I feel sorry for him but I know someone with enough personal experience with him to not trust him until he is more mature with how he handles peoples lives.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

One of the reasons his dad is alive is because of Paul's intervention. So, he is lucky that he feels anything.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Wow, How his dad feels?? His dad is the master manipulator of this disease called Greater Grace. Paul will not begin recovering until he cuts ties with his sicko father. And neither will you 68. Get out and let God heal you and mature you.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

You think Carl feels hurt? I think he is incapable of that emotion. Carl is not a victim – he is a VICTIMIZER.

I agree with Jim regarding Paul and his actions. All those things need to take place in order for restoration to be made, but that is only one aspect of restoration. It is putting the cart before the horse.

If Carl has spiritually, emotionally and psychologically injured those in his ministry to the extent he has, I can only image the damage done to Paul. I’m not the warm, fuzzy type – so don’t go there – this is a practical observation. You got to walk before you can run. He’s got to get out from under Carl’s control first. He has the hardest road of anyone. He has more to extract himself from than anyone. Nothing can come before getting out. It is the only way for him to save himself. Personally, I think this topic deserves a moratorium for a while.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Paul's intervention Okay. I agree. It was the only way Paul could make stuff happen if in fact "stuff" needed to happen. But what I don't get is the after. He didn't count on being accountable for his actions however right they were. If he would've done something like that in corporate america he would've been canned even if his boss was thankful.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

Hhmmm, the after. You mean being sent away while being talked about behind his back worldwide ? Or the messages that came from the pulpit against him, the private raps, meetings at Pastor Steve's house, of which I went to one and heard it myself. Paul repented on radio for what he did and then got asked to resign as an elder. He even repented on stage at GGWO. HHmmm, the after.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Obviously, you are a die-hard Carl loyalist. Expectedly, you deflect all responsibility from him.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Repented for what?

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

That is actually a funny comment. The boss was thankful for someone trying to save his life, but he still deserves to be canned. Meanwhile, the guy that tried to save his life has totally been discredited.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Humm, the after. Like when all his friends begged him to intervene. Like the cowardly elders who carried Carl's resignation around with them for days but were afraid to confront Carl. They made the family do it. Why doesn't someone questioning the after-events call Bruce Stevens? Why? Because no one at GG cares about the truth. They want to believe the cover story, the deception because the truth would cost them too much. They would have to act on that truth. Paul had the backing of everyone for the intervention but when Carl's wrath came down on him, they let him become the fall guy, the scapegoat. They betrayed Paul and they continue to betray everyone that continues to listen to their lies. Cowards! They share the sin. Someday whether in this life or the next, they will see before them the destruction wrought by this sick man, they aided and abetted and the blood of the wounded will be on their hands as well. All will see.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

He repented on Grace Hour for using the pulpit in any way that he did not have the right to use it and for saying anything that might have hurt his father. Are you from Baltimore? Everyone heard it more than once. He has said that he simply wanted his father to be healthy. As far as the maturity thing, don't we all need to grow up ? Have you read these threads ? Treating people ? I am sure he needs to grow, but I believe he has been through a lot and wants to grow. Do you ?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Repented for what?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

oops sorry. didn't mean to repeat.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

But he wasn't specific, correct? And yet you, or whoever, want the pastor carl to have a accountability party and repent for things. It's okay, really. I know there are many things to disagree for. I'm not attacking, just asking.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

Paul did exactly what his father asked him to do. His father said it was the best birthday present and that it was all behind him now. It happened on Nov. 4 of last year. It obviously was not behind him. His father and Pastor Schaller have preached against him on nomerous occaions since then. Paul even started Aberdeen at the request of his father and now is getting killed for that even as of last Sunday morning. Do you believe it is okay to use the pulpit to go after people in the congregation? Do you go to church for that reason?

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

I happen to agree with JF. There is also one other thing no one has mentioned though. Paul was also counseling the langs at the same time he was having the affair. That is a major breach of ethics. So on top of all the other stuff you have an unethical counselor. He has no business counseling but rather should be in counseling himself.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

I heard that he has gone for counseling outside of GGWO.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Do you think there are elements that perhaps you are not aware of?
At the request of his father? Who told you that. I don't really want to know. I just wanted to get you thinking about the validity of your source.

Why do you go to church? To worship God, correct?
Why do you post here? To worship...?
That is all I will say.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

Gotta go, people. Enjoy your lives of opinions about others. Maybe someday, you will enjoy it happening to you.

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

Counseling outside of GGWO is a good step. I pray it helps him.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

I heard this from an elder and I have spoken with Pastor Paul on numerous occasions. You did not answer my question. Do you feel it is right to use the pulpit to go after people, taking your coat off , defending yourself and wanting to fight someone you are shepherding, while getting the church to yell that person is an idiot? Is that right?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Like I said consider the validity of your source.
As far as defending yourself from pulpit, Paul did that numerous times so...there ya go.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

Once again, you do not answer the question. Pastor Paul has only said from the pulpit in Baltimore and Aberdeen that he wants Christ exalted and for reconciliation. I do not believe you can give me one time he has said otherwise. So, you are the one that is not a reliable source. He has said that he has reacted and he has repented to the elders and his father for his reactions. Have they repented ever publically? Anyways, I know you want the best as well. I pray that God will reveal His glory and stop this madness. I believe everyone involved loves the Lord and must humble themselves to seek Him.

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

Anon 141. I know that you know what you are talking about. Hang in there, and trust the Holy Spirit that you know is guiding you. Changing anyone's mind here can be a losing proposition, I should know...they pretty much think I am an angel of light around here.

I know the depth of your convictions is real, I know you love Paul, I know you have every right to your righteous indignation at the money spent to cover this up...and I agree with you (though at this stage of things on factnet you may not see this as a plus).

Please continue the fight. Please continue to be Paul's friend, plese don't give up on the journey that the Holy Spirit brought you to make.

I will keep you and yours in my prayers...stay safe.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Yes, I want the best. I want to love Paul and love his dad. And I do. This is a horrible thing and I have come to not trust one soul about what really happened. At this point, it doesn't matter what happened. What matters is God breaking through all the emotion, people putting it all aside and getting back to the great commission.

[Anonymous (141.157.26.239)]

Thank you and I agree. If it is about the great commission, then everyone should be glad that a church has started in Aberdeen and sould are being led to Christ. It should stop the talk if we can get back to the great commission.

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

Anon 68, It really does matter what happened.

When the Holy Spirit is grieved as it so obviously is now by the chaotic mess at GGWO, the congregation is not capable of fulfilling the true commision of the church.

It is more than mere sentimentality. The church is being tested, and so far failing the test. This has happened so many time before, and each time Pastor Stevens refuses to do right. The Elders also are not doing what is right and therefore the whole of the spirit is grieved. Were it just sentimentality it would be overcome by getting "back to the great commision" as you say.

But sexual misconduct, admitted and unadmitted, financial misconduct, improper bible doctrine and inappropriate behaviours by church leaders has tainted and crippled the message, has grieved the Spirit and nothing can be done now except clean house.

I know it sounds harsh, but this is not the first time these issues have been brought to light. Nothing has ever been done to clean up the messes so they continue to pile up.

House cleaning has to happen I am afraid...from the top down, not from the bottom up. THEN will the church be set right and God's work can continue.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

NO ONE has answered this:

How does PAUL STEVENS meet the requirements HE MUST MEET in 1 Timothy 3?

How do you justify a man continuing in any sort of ministry WITHOUT SO MUCH AS TAKING A BREATH when he has conducted an affair with a married woman?

He taught relationship classes during the affair.

He hawked his book on marriage during the affair.

He went on tours and spoke abroad during the affair.

He did not speak out against the demeaning of the innocent party which he knew was being conducted by Dan Lewis, Carl Stevens, some of the Hadleys, and other minions.

He has never so much as taken a break from his so-called MINISTRY.

HOW IS HE QUALIFIED TO MINISTER IN LIGHT OF 1 TIMOTHY 3 AS SHOWN ABOVE?

Not one person has answered the challenge from scripture.

NOT ONE.

[Anonymous (63.27.22.51)]

64.12 it was not YOUR money that was used as "hush money" it was GOD'S! This is even MORE offensive than if it were simply YOUR hard earned money!

[Anonymous (63.27.22.51)]

With people dying and going to hell with every tick of the clock, children dying of malnutrition in Third World countries, drug addicts and homeless people wandering the streets of urban cities lost in their sinful choices worldwide I thing $500,000. would have done a lot to alleviate some of their suffering don't you?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Yes, but they do not have to be dealt with according to your standards. Improper bible doctrine is your beef. If people in GGWO agree with it then I wouldn't expect it to be "dealt" with.