RED PAUL

[Anonymous (63.27.22.51)]

No, Paul Stevens is a pampered and sheltered little boy who has NEVER had to take responsibility for his choices to date!!!!!!
Hopefully, this indiscretion will be a lesson learned, but I doubt it the way GGWO has their accountability set up! GROW UP PAUL!

[Anonymous (63.27.22.51)]

Please not MY standards, rather GOD'S!

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

Where in 1 Timothy 3 does it say someone must "take a break" from so-called ministry? I think God has used the current situation to chastise Pastor Paul enough. He has learned his lesson. If you were here to observe his life, you might understand that better. Instead you analyze, and arbitrate your case against him from your seat here on "Internet Court". Grow-Up and learn "CHRIST-LIKENESS".

I am done with this website, there is no place for grace in your words JF, just legalism!

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

Jim, I understand your questions, but the answers may not be as cut and dried for Paul and those at GGWO as they are for those of us that are out.

Paul, Carl etc and the congregation are still living in the cult mentality, they may not have all the light of scripture that other's have. The Elders live in the lies thsy convince themselves and the congregation of. What is obvious to us, may not be to some still there.

Of course it is reprehensibale that he would teach marriage classes, etc while having an affair. But isn't that they way it usually happens? Doctors having affairs with pateints while trating others, governmental officials breaking the very laws they are making? I am not justifying his behavior, just finding context.

It is a cult that has a warped sense of church discipline, wheras your church has an obsession with church discipline by comparison. It is understandable that these things scream out at you...but remember when you were in the cult? Remember when you participated in the wrongs there? Remember how it took some time for the light to break through the fog?

Paul likely hasd lived in much more fog than some of us. No excuses, but maybe some understanding. The test has come...will the GGWO do right at long last and make those accountable who should be held to the high standard?

I agree with the points you make...but it may not be as black and white as it seems. Is he qualified as 1 Tim 3 says? No. Is that all there is to the situation? No. We are not talking about a properly trained pastor, not talking about a real church and that may be the ultimate problem.

Just an opionion, Jim. I do not claim to know all there is on the subject for either side.

[rj (141.154.144.33)]

my typing is worse than ever today...ugh

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

RJ, whenever an organization lays claims to the title "church" they bring themselves under the obligations of scripture defining behavior in God's house. That is how we as Christians can define what is a cult and what is not. The Mormons call themselves "The Church" of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves the "discrete slave" and claim to be God's mouthpiece on earth from Brooklyn. Carl Stevens has taken on the mantle of "wise master builder" and "five star general in God's Army." He has referred to himself as the One Shepherd whose voice is heard by the sheep. Paul has said on this site that he believes the meaning of the phrase: "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" means that he should continue his ministry without a break. We have to use scriptural criteria to explore their claims.


<FONT COLOR="0000ff">68.34 wrote:
Where in 1 Timothy 3 does it say someone must "take a break" from so-called ministry? I think God has used the current situation to chastise Pastor Paul enough.</FONT>

Common sense would tell you that in order to meet the qualifications that you MUST have in OBSERVABLE qualities that OBSERVATION must be over a period of time--particularly if an offense has been committed. One does not immediately "rebound" into those observable qualities. It takes time to show particularly after an episode similar to the one we refer to here to regain those OBSERVABLE qualities. That is why we are told in the 5th chapter that we are not to share in other mens sins by enabling them by the laying on of hands into the ministry. Of course at GG, with its doctrines of no-accountability and Chief Elder appointed underlings none of this matters. You have not addressed my questions concerning how the current bunch of elders were selected at Aberdeen. Were they elected by the congregation? Do they serve at Paul's pleasure? Are they co-equal to him in authority? My guess is you just don't bloody know at all.

<FONT COLOR="0000ff">He has learned his lesson. If you were here to observe his life, you might understand that better. Instead you analyze, and arbitrate your case against him from your seat here on "Internet Court". Grow-Up and learn "CHRIST-LIKENESS".</FONT>

And why not here? He is answerable to no-one anywhere else that wants to pursue these issues. He has my number. I am in touch with the other parties. This could end. The ball is in HIS court. Typical GG bite and bolt tactics on display here. No answer to why Paul is apparently doing one thing publicly and another privately.

<FONT COLOR="0000ff">I am done with this website, there is no place for grace in your words JF, just legalism!</FONT>

Again how typical and cowardly--and accusative. The only place for "grace" in your mind is to make it an excuse for licentiousness.

[Roberta (141.154.144.33)]

"Paul has said on this site that he believes the meaning of the phrase: "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" means that he should continue his ministry without a break."

I was not aware of this.

You know Paul. Is he capable of making decisions seperate and distinct from the false doctrines he has learned at GGWO without the unlearning/re-education process?

Can the repentance before the church etc you wrote about ever happen without the unlearning/re-education process?

I personally am not sure it is possible. BTW, has Sean offered him any assistance with any of this that you know of?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Where is paul's statement? Which thread? You don't really think he actually posted? Or did he?

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

Good question

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Anonymous (4.139.33.141)
Monday, May 17, 2004 - 10:36 pm
...By God's grace, I will go forward believing that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. My wife is here with me and we pray that you will understand where we are coming from. I pray for you all. My wife and daughter are my primary focus and will always be.

Anonymous (4.139.33.141)
Monday, May 17, 2004 - 10:37 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, I am Paul Stevens.

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

Ahhhh...that was awhile back...that's why I never saw it.

Do you know Jim if Shaun has offered his brother in law any help in this matter...

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Don't know.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

oooo. Archive man. Thanks.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

And tell Mags I said hi.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

And aren't you just the king/queen of cryptic! Mags?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

4get it.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

You the one from Redding CA?

[Anonymous (216.183.184.253)]

,

[Bob Brinton (141.154.150.31)]

Redding is where Leon was running, no? Fast for his age and all that?