Paul Stevens Please stand up

[Anonymous (24.172.35.20)]

Like the title?

Pastor Paul,

You have been attacked, belittled, and shut down from those who are from your own family.

I and many others would like to see you stand up.

I don't care about your sin from a decade ago, or from 2 days ago.

I want to see others follow you into your new church and I want to see you be as transparent as the clearest glass.

So do what you need to do. Stand up and be the one to say NO MORE.

Yes it is honoring God! If your decision making is based up the premise that your wife, child and Lord are the most important things in your life, don't fall into this trap any longer.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Stand up or step down, and don't whine like you do about being persecuted and misunderstood playing to the good natured sympathy of your hearers.

(Rev.3:15,16) Be either hot or cold instead of some overaged teenager waiting for his dad to bail him out.

Stay with GGWO and swim upstream against the spiritual chaos, posturing and general b.s. therein
or step down like Moses did at such a time in his life and eventually challenged those who raised him to believe a lot of things that actually were not so.

[Anonymous (24.172.35.20)]

Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 11:32 pm

Genius Paul is not on leadership of GGWO any longer.

He has his own church and he is not about to do anything at GGWO as a leader.

He is a lot more sincere than what you are making him out to be.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Sincere ?
or sincerely misguided by his own little group of sycophants ?

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Sincere ?

Paul ?

or sincerely misguided by his own little group of sycophants ?

If he is not connected with GGWO why is he still on Grace Hour ?

[Anonymous (24.172.35.20)]

If he is not connected with GGWO why is he still on Grace Hour ?

Honor and habbit

[Dave (4.156.90.91)]

I believe that Pastor Paul's new church is part of GGWO.

And Pastor Paul Stevens' new church is under the authority of GGWO.

Something was said about this either at the service Sunday morning,
or on the Grace Hour this week.

I also assume that both GGWO and Pastor Paul's new church
are all part of one large single Church that Jesus Christ has in Baltimore, Maryland.

AND I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT BOTH PASTOR CARL STEVENS' GGWO CHURCH,
AND PASTOR PAUL'S NEW CHURCH
ARE UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF:
"THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IN BALTIMORE!!!!"

Does anone who listens to "The Grace Hour"
recall how "several years ago",
Pastor Carl Stevens and Pastor Paul Stevens
spent so much time telling the listeners of The Grace Hour,
of the meeting that was going to take place at Camden Yards.

Everyone was so anxiously awaiting the meeting of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ,
that was going to take place.

And Pastor Carl Stevens was one of about 200 pastor teachers who were to speak at this event,
in which "the Church of Jesus Christ in Baltimore, Maryland"
met at Camden Yards.

I WONDER IF "THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IN BALTIMORE, MARYLAND"
HAS AUTHORITY OVER THE PROBLEMS THAT EXIST AT GGWO.

Pastor Carl Stevens recognizes that GGWO is only one small portion
of the much larger "CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST AT BALTIMORE, MARYLAND.


Dave

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

I say good for Pastor Paul if he dissed his father from the pulpit. Carl has lost it completely and you morons continue to follow Carl. I guess you want to get in the casket when he goes.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Just a thought or two...Paul is a flesh and blood human being, who most likely is confused, shamed, angry, sorrowful and wounded, assuming what one reads and hears is true. He sounds like a candidate for prayer...for isn't it the hurting sinner saved by grace that needs the congregation's prayers every bit as much as the unsaved? He is merely a man, a person, with all the messed up emotions, confused thinking and pain the word "human" implies.

He is a pastor. This means he may need more fervent prayer than ever. I for one cannot imagine what it must have been like for him to grow up in his family. The pressures have to have been enormous. We must cease from judging his actions no matter if we disapprove or not. Only God sees his heart and knows the state of his repentence. Turning on him will harm us and do him no good.

I understand why some feel betrayed, I really do. But if ever there was a time to transcend the anger, blame and judgement and help to heal the wounds....wounds of his wife and child, M and her husband and family and the wounds of those who feel angry and betrayed...the time is now. I believe that good people who pray for the broken and the seemingly unrepairable will see restoration. And restoration is key to everyone's spiritual health and well being, no?

Perhaps you think me naive, I assure you I am not. Prayer for Paul is necessary for him, and for ourselves. How can that be wrong?

Roberta

[Anonymous (68.34.121.207)]

God Bless you Roberta.

[Anonymous (4.139.18.208)]

Are Bill & Margo Klein attending P. Paul's Aberdeen affliate ministry?

If so, did they leave homebase due to financial indiscrepancies within the church's administration?

Bill, you are an astute and successful businessman; is there any empirical evidence of wrongdoing at homebase which would warrant an investigation?

With Deepest Respect - HELP!!!

If you know this to be true PLEASE come forward and help us to make this organization financially accountable!

Heresay just doesn't cut it; we need definitive proof of wrongdoing so PLEASE do the right thing if you know how to assist with this matter!

[Anonymous (64.246.58.26)]

I think it is interesting that some real smart folks and people with money have landed in Pauls church.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Daddy Carls not gonna like that !!!

[Anonymous (207.44.132.115)]

No I know about a check written for Paul that seemed to really **** him off. So much so ass kissing was done in the last three weeks.

Buying a building and we are only a few weeks old.

Hey Daddy Carl was in like that on Moravia Road?

Can we say numbered days?!

[Anonymous (155.188.191.5)]

MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY
Great 70's tune----and the new theme song at Grace Ministries in Aberdeen.

[Anonymous (63.158.248.144)]

You guys are nuts. Paul has not received a check and the church is not buying a building. Numbered days ? Or should we say liars ?

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

155.188.191.5

Who might Grace Ministries be? This is the problem with this site, to much false info.
You don't even know the name of the Aberdeen church. Let alone, correct info on Pastor Paul.

[Anonymous (24.88.42.182)]

Um,

Actually I would call Paul on this. He might be able to confirm what has been said on this matter as being truth.

[Anonymous (63.27.20.126)]

WHO THE HELL CARES WHAT THAT IMMORAL MAN THINKS?!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

"63-27-20-126" You are one evil hateful bastard who needs to get your life right with Jesus Christ. You have nothing good to say to anyone on any of your posts on factnet. You need to spend some time with the Lord and get your wicked heart right.

You judge people whose shoes you have never walked in. You judge people who have repented from their past and have moved on with their walk with the Lord Jesus Christ. By the way, I"m not judging you, I'm just labelling you for what you yourself have posted in such a hateful wicked tone.

Leave Pastor Paul alone.

Why don't you leave factnet alone as well, nobody wants to hear your ugly opinions anyhow.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

BTW. *******, THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH IS

FINISHED WORK MINISTRIES.

PLEASE DON'T COME, YOU'RE NOT WANTED THERE. PEOPLE THERE ARE MOVING ON WITH THEIR LIVES WITH THE LORD.

[Anonymous (155.188.191.4)]

"I finished the work" with another man's wife. Is the name of Paul's ministry

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

and thats why i wouldn't go to that church. plus its a spin off of GG same false teachings and error

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

"155" God will judge you for your condescending judgemental attitudes. I won't even lower myself to post an answer to your assinine remarks. That man long repented of that affair and you have no right to judge him for a sin that God has already forgiven him for. Read your bible. "Judge not lest ye be judged."

Shame on you, you are despicable. Whatever happened to Galatians 6:1?????? And you call yourself a Christian? Huh. If I had the attitude you have no wonder you are such a sorry ass bitter person, I would be on my knees before the Lord. The God I serve restores people, he doesn't chew them up and spit them out like "Christians" who post here and bash the crap out of each other.

Whether you like hearing it or not, there were a lot of things that were positive about GGWO. Yes there are many problems there, but one thing people need to remember is that the bottom line is that it is God's church. He will deal with those He sees fit to deal with. All of you wait with the noose to hang "Paul" or "Carl." Many want "justice" and there are things that very much need to be addressed. If people's hearts aren't right, and their attitudes come across as yours has, "155" and you too Mr. 69-242 from Jeff Wisots ministry...how do you expect God to move in an atmosphere of bitterness and resentment???
I don't see it happening. What I think does need to happen to some here who post these ugly and hatefully disgusting messages on here, is that better time would be spent on your knees before the Lord. If you are truly focused on the Lord, and LED BY HIS SPIRIT in praying about the changes that need to be made at GGWO, then perhaps Gods hand WILL move and those changes WILL be made.

And some may be surprised at the way God makes the changes. And, some will never be satisfied no matter what the Lord sees fit to do, and thats the bottom line.

Either its God's church, and we that are "out" for whatever reasons are LED BY HIS SPIRIT in how to pray for the changes to come, without bitterness, anger, resentment, spiteful remarks, or whatever...then like I said, I believe God's hand will move.

Until then, shame on you for bringing up sin that no longer exists in that man's life, and shame on you for the hate you obviously have in your heart for him. Whether you care or not, he still is your brother in Christ who fell and had to go to God just like we do when we fall.

ASS KISSER FOR JESUS

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Oh yes, '69' you're the expert now and you have never walked thru the doors of that building and attended services there since they opened in April 2004. Finished Work Ministries is NOT run the same way GGWO in Baltimore is run. And, as much as it would shock the crap out of you, it is NOT a spinoff of GGWO Baltimore either.

There are many who post here that attend that church, perhaps they will speak up themselves in time. Many don't want people to know where they are going right now, some actually go to both churches.

So before you point your hypocritical little finger and wag your tongue, shut your mouth you are drawing flies with your lies. Since you don't go there and obviously have no discernment whatsoever, you wouldn't have a clue if the Holy Spirit was indeed present there. But those of us who are moving on with the Lord that go there have purposed to put God first in our lives no matter what, and there truly is an amazing move of the Holy Spirit there.

You have more of an interest in tearing people down and beating on them because you are so filled with anger and resentment that you can't even see how great your need for healing truly is. I've followed your posts. Why don't you try calling Safe Harbor and get some counselling, it can only help. You won't be the first person that has left GGWO that has had to do that for their own sanity. Many were there most of their lives and have felt lost and abandoned leaving.
Have some compassion for others. Its a whole lot better than looking to slam someone whose shoes you don't walk in.

"ASS KIckER FOR JESUS"

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

ROTFL I even screwed up my name...lol put "Ass
kisser" for Jesus...instead of Ass Kicker for Jesus...note the pun...I sure as heck don't follow after any man spiritually...so, "155" and "69" go ahead and mock me for that one. You two ticked me off so darn bad with your attitude towards Pastor Paul I messed up my signature.

Gives me a good chuckle and an opportunity to give grace to myself.

Signed...........Ass Kicker!!

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Oh yeah, Mr. Cheeky "207" get your facts straight too. No church has been bought by Pastor Paul just weeks after he started the ministry. No check was given to buy one either.

A lot you know. (snort...)

Sure is a lot of manure on this thread, lies and more lies about a man you people hate.

What would Jesus say....hmmmm......

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Oh yeah and

No church has been bought yet and its six months now...so what do you have to say now about it???

And office space is rented and that only happened the beginning of September.

Nah nah my sources are more accurate than yours...nah nah

[Anonymous (141.157.85.205)]

Oh my gosh the natives are restless tonight!!!

"205" we got the point...and don't worry about the "ass-kisser" vs. "ass-kicker"...you kicked their asses and thats what was definately needed.

Care to share your sources by the way???

j/k....see ya at church (FWM).

[Anonymous (63.27.27.145)]

BTW. *******, THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH IS

FINISHED WORK MINISTRIES.

PLEASE DON'T COME, YOU'RE NOT WANTED THERE. PEOPLE

THERE ARE MOVING ON WITH THEIR LIVES WITH THE LORD.

Hey 64.12,

You exhibit the "fruit" I would expect from a congregate of "Pastor" Paul! From what you've written it is not very apparent that you are moving in the Lord, was "*******" the edifying word you used? Yes, I believe it was and also why do you need Factnet is all is well?

[Anonymous (216.183.184.253)]

!!!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

I dunno I like the word ******* and God still considers me fruit.

[Anonymous (152.163.101.13)]

maybe a fruit loop

[Anonymous (63.27.2.230)]

rotten? sour? unripe? mildewed? wilted?

[Anonymous (63.27.2.230)]

...prunes?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

all of the above maybe..But HE still love me and uses me, even if you think im not good enough. I kinda liked the fruit loop one though, it fits.

[Anonymous (151.196.140.237)]

Any comments about this past Sunday's message at FWM? I was there, the service was amazing. Quite an annointed message given by Pastor Paul, with much brokenness and humility. Yeah the bunch of you can comment all you want saying his messages are just going to be like his dads....but they are rather different which is something you would only see by taking the trip up to Havre de Grace.

Instead of kicking him while he is already "down" how about some of you that brag that you do "love Pastor Paul" -- why don't you come for a visit (yeah and that does mean going against your Pastor Stevens giving his marching orders of 9/25/04)???? Put your money where your mouth is if you are sincere about supporting Pastor Paul in his new work.

Rumor has it Pastor Stevens said that if his "parishoners" didn't care for the idea of Paul coming back (???) there to visit, then they could leave!!! Chairs were noticably empty Sunday night in Baltimore....hmmmmmmmmm..........

[Nancy C (70.17.195.25)]

Pr. Paul was one with whom I had much trouble with in past years, his preaching, teaching etc.
I have seen the fruit of the Holy Spirit's working in a broken, humble man.

We are all sinners, every one and probably have done worse than Paul and when God brings us to that place of repentence we are cleansed and clean and new.

Paul is in this place of humility, the beauty of Christ in his life shines through. Before you jump all over me go to his church, it is not an affiliate any longer and it is a church and the messages are pure.

We must never forgot God's desire to restore the backslider. Thank Him for it because we are all vile at times. And thank Him for His working in Paul. It is the beauty of the refined gold.

Thank you Lord for you Mercy for without it we would surely implode. After what friends who have been out of GG Baltimore for a while, have shared with me regarding Paul and his church, I can do nothing but hang my head in humility and bless the Lord and praise His Name.

[Anonymous (63.27.15.218)]

"...if you are sincere about supporting Pastor Paul in his new work."

HIS new work? What about God's? Here we go again with the "pastor worship" mentality! The apple don't fall far from the tree does it?

Be VERY careful because God will NOT be mocked!

[Anonymous (65.234.187.170)]

The only reason Paul Stevens is a "pastor" is because his daddy made him one. He shouldn't be trusted any farther than he can be thrown.

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

i agree # 65 , this seems to be a big front with the "spin-off " of ggwo which preaches the same heresies

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

If Pastor Paul has really come to a point of repentance in his life, and if he has began the separation process from his father, (and it IS a process), and if he truly wants to serve God humbly as many have said, who are we to say that it is not so???

While it is difficult to trust a person we have perceived as having hurt us or others we love, we are directed BY GOD'S WORD to forgive and treat them as if there were no sin in them. Otherwise, we are no better than anyone else that throws stones at him.

I say, that until proven otherwise, we MUST give Pastor Paul a chance. Are we any better than him??? Will God forgive us when we sin and NOT forgive him??? I think not. He has every right to go on with the ministry that God has called him to.

My observations over the years tell me that he is going through a very difficult time right now. I am sure in a lot of ways he loves his father as any of us would love our parents. But Perhaps God has called him to be separate from GGWO in order to allow him to grow in Christ.

Remember, Jesus did say that if you do not forgive a person that has sinned against you, His Father would not forgive you. (Mt 18:21-35)
And also let us remember Mt 7:1-6 and 15-20

I pray we can all give this Brother in Christ the same chance to start new as we would want Christ Himself give us! Pastor Paul deserves nothing less from us.

Let's pray he remains faithful to his Heavenly Father's calling and NOT his daddy's calling.

[Nancy (151.196.136.102)]

exactly 68 83 you are correct

[Anonymous (4.156.99.244)]

After reading the post written about Sunday's service at Paul's church, I KNOW I could NEVER go there.

The service was "Amazing."

The message was "Anointed."

Pastor Paul spoke in "Brokenness.".........

All that Greater Grace vocabulary. UGH!

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

Well 4.156, You may well be correct about the GGWO "vocabulary" being used to describe the service. However, people who have been exposed to it for years may not know of any other way to describe it. This is not always a bad thing. They are simply describing what they interpreted they saw, not necessarily what it WAS. I think you have to give all of us humans a little room for our own way of expressing ourselves. I may not agree with the use of the GGWO vocabulary in describing things, but who am I to say that other person is wrong?? I wasn't there to witness the service so I can't speak on it. Were you? Obviously not.
Let's not split hairs on simple matters like how one person uses the english language to describe something like this. That is exactly what the enemy would like us to do! As I have stated before, give the man a chance to either prove or disprove himself.
Can two people use exactly the same words to describe the colors of a sunset?
Just something to ponder.

[Anonymous (4.156.99.167)]

WOW. That was AMAZING.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

ok 4.156 I am the person who wrote about Paul's service on Sunday. Don't be so critical of my "vocabulary." There is a vast difference in sensing the annointing of God that IS present there in comparison to the annointing of God that hasn't been present in Baltimore church for quite awhile now. Those of us that choose to live their lives directed by the Holy Spirit got the point, as evidenced by what "68" and Nancy Curra wrote. Forgive my excitement that there is a church in this area preaching LIFE to my soul and I used the word "awesome" to describe it. I have been church hunting for months since leaving GGWO and I see the most beautiful move of the Holy Spirit there and I chose to describe it as I saw it.

Far be it from me to think of criticizing you with your obvious lack of spiritual discernment.
It speaks for itself. Don't judge that man till you walk in his shoes. He has changed, much to the chagrin of those skeptics that still think they have to right to criticize someone else's walk with the Lord. So do us a favor and don't bring your hypocritical butt there. He doesn't need your scrutiny!!

God you would think something refreshing and uplifting said here on factnet in regards to the Lord would be received. I feel sorry for you 4.156..how much you've missed wallowing in your bitter self pity party.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

To 63.27 who posted this:

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:24 am
------------------------------------------------
"...if you are sincere about supporting Pastor Paul in his new work."

HIS new work? What about God's? Here we go again with the "pastor worship" mentality! The apple don't fall far from the tree does it?

Be VERY careful because God will NOT be mocked!

******************

Since "ass" is used biblically then i am going to take the liberty in applying it to you. You are one very critical jackass. Nobody was mocing God in that post, and I know it because I wrote it.

You thinking is screwed up which isn't new to anbody on here anyhow, we all know your IP number and how crude you are in your posts. Big deal I referred to it as Paul's work instead of God's work. Thank you for such noted lack of grace and criticism. Who died and left you God? Last I looked He was still on the throne. Perhaps that is where you need to be spending your time -- seeking the throne -- because your trail of hay wood and stubble is going to get one hell of a match lit to it by the Holy Spirit, and then you will have nothing of substance left. Is that what you want? No fruit in your life seen by such a judgemental critical spirit...so sad...but you can justify yourself calling youself a Christian...lol YOU are the one who mocks God here.

Lay off Pastor Paul. You know nothing of what goes on at the church in Havre de Grace. Don't assume things are as you think they are, without ever setting foot in that place. Do us a favor and don't waste your time. That work of God is moving forward with people who want to move forward with their lives in Christ and the Holy Spirit. There's no game playing thats going to be happening.

If you live your life with a humble and meek spirit that is teachable, then the Holy Spirit will bless you and move through you. Otherwise you will stay the same miserable jackass you have been of late.

[Anonymous (69.143.68.103)]

What is Paul Stevens vision for his new church? Is he emphasizing "growing" the church? Is he trying to start a ministry as big as his father's or bigger?

When do the blitzes start? When do the pamphlets start? How about the radio show? How about the web site? What are the plans for a permanent building?

Is this going to be another scorched earth, growth at all costs church?

Other than going to MBCS, what are Paul's qualifications to be a minister?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

What the **** do you care for "69"??????????

You obviously are here to cause trouble you troll.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Yeah, "69" if you want to know what Pastor Paul's vision is go ask him yourself or quit hiding behind Factnet to ask your questions.

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

I agree if people want to know what Pastor Paul's vision is then they need to drive their cars up to Havre de Grace and ASK HIM YOURSELF.

You want to know his qualifications? Drive up there and ask him yourself.

You want to know about radio, or any other kind of outreach to grow God's church? Go up to Havre de Grace and ask him yourself.

Problem is, "69" you won't ask, you would rather trash him here on Factnet knowing you can hid behind posting anonymously. Well you don't fool us. We aren't going to feed your foolish questions. You have questions for Pastor Paul? Drive yourself up there and ASK HIM YOURSELF. FACE TO FACE!!! You spineless coward, you would rather slam his character on Factnet instead.

GO AWAY YOU TROLL

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

wow look at those words you aren't saved i can tell by the words of your mouth and i would never go to that church if thats the way the people talk ...repent

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

Way to go, "205" I loved your posts. Don't worry about the Factnet spell checkers or vocabulary checkers. We know you meant that it was God's church in your other posting. "63" just likes to cause continual problems here and we just ignore the trolls.

Glad to hear you are being blessed up at Pastor Paul's church. Its about time we had refreshing posts on here.

[Anonymous (68.33.70.187)]

AMEN.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

All I can say is when the light gets turned on, be you Paul Stevens or Jack leonard or Ed Lutz or Kathy Lutz or Kent Sutorius or a nobody like me. The light remains on but it takes a long time to adjust to the light and learn how to walk in the light. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Paul gets it. He has been changed by this experience called TBS/GGWO and he does not want to make the mistakes of his father. He growing just like the rest of us and he is OUT. So God bless him and God bless the rest of us.

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

Don't worry "69-242-21-100, that person posting there meant it for the other "69" poster a/k/a Boss Martian the expert now about GGWO but one who hasn't attended church there.

And since your affiliation is with Deleware church and slamming the ministry up there why don't you just go ahead and pre-occupy yourself doing that instead?

Like its ok for you to 'vent' your anger but someone else isn't. Typical factnet garbage as usual.

S.S.

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

OH yeah, 69-242-21-100 you're the one who keeps posting that Paul's church is a spinoff of his dads, etc.

You have no clue as to what is preached from that pulpit so just drive your smart ass self down from Deleware and go see for yourself.

S.S.

[Anonymous (63.27.1.67)]

Two quotes by 205.188.117.20 below...

"If you live your life with a humble and meek spirit that is teachable, then the Holy Spirit will bless you and move through you. Otherwise you will stay the same miserable jackass you have been of late."

"What the **** do you care for "69"??????????

You obviously are here to cause trouble you troll."

What a fine example you are of "meekness" and "humility." Are YOU one who is "teachable" and possess these attributes you claim I lack 205? Perhaps you'd better pick the log out of your own eye before you examine the toothpick in mine!

63

[TJHooker (195.56.52.9)]

Pastor Paul is an idiot. A little boy that stormed away from his father becuase he didnt get the "keys to the kingdom".

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

And you little boy Hooker are an ignorant child that presumes without the facts and then makes life decisions on the basis of gossip from others. Time to start thinking for yourself little boy.

[Anonymous (64.26.82.18)]

Looks like your NOT thinking for yourself; following that ridiculous man to Havre de Grace! He's a proven adulterer and insincere twit! But hey, it's a free country if you want to go down the same road you did with "Daddy."

[Anonymous (64.26.82.18)]

People that Greater Grace to follow this "man" are a bunch of imbeciles and freaks!

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

*** Due to the number of people here that either just don't get it, or just want to make trouble, here is an earlier post that needs repeating. Hope you read it and re-read it until you understand it***

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 12:21 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Pastor Paul has really come to a point of repentance in his life, and if he has began the separation process from his father, (and it IS a process), and if he truly wants to serve God humbly as many have said, who are we to say that it is not so???

While it is difficult to trust a person we have perceived as having hurt us or others we love, we are directed BY GOD'S WORD to forgive and treat them as if there were no sin in them. Otherwise, we are no better than anyone else that throws stones at him.

I say, that until proven otherwise, we MUST give Pastor Paul a chance. Are we any better than him??? Will God forgive us when we sin and NOT forgive him??? I think not. He has every right to go on with the ministry that God has called him to.

My observations over the years tell me that he is going through a very difficult time right now. I am sure in a lot of ways he loves his father as any of us would love our parents. But Perhaps God has called him to be separate from GGWO in order to allow him to grow in Christ.

Remember, Jesus did say that if you do not forgive a person that has sinned against you, His Father would not forgive you. (Mt 18:21-35)
And also let us remember Mt 7:1-6 and 15-20

I pray we can all give this Brother in Christ the same chance to start new as we would want Christ Himself give us! Pastor Paul deserves nothing less from us.

Let's pray he remains faithful to his Heavenly Father's calling and NOT his daddy's calling.

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

So 64 is exposing someone's sin, and making rude comments, eligibility to be a Pastor? If so you qualify. Who should we serve God with, you? Give me a break, no human being is without sin. You obviously no NOTHING about the last year of Pastor Paul's life, and the change that has taken place in his walk with God. Those of us who do, serve God with him in JOY!
Finished Work Ministries is nothing like GGWO in Baltimore. And we don't plan to be.

[Anonymous (63.27.69.251)]

Maybe 64 has been sent to undermine P. Paul's ministry? I would not put it past the paranoid people who lead GGWO.

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

I believe 64.26, posting from the same pc at the library that other GG trolls have; is definitely here to undermine.

[Anonymous (216.183.184.253)]

During the ministry transition from Lenox to Baltimore, Pastor Paul was noticebly rattled about the move.
Why? you may ask;
Pastor Paul was not shy about his concern in moving from the predominantly white population of Lenox, Mass. to urbanized Baltimore whose population is over sixty percent African American.
Pastor Paul made the cynical comment that he was not a six foot three inch black man like Noel Dickson. Noel, if you don't remember happens to be an African American from Baltimore. So according to Pastor Paul he had reason to be concerned.

Pastor Paul told his daddy Carl that since brother Steve 'fled' to Cape Cod, He (Paul) expected 'help' in buying a house outside of the city... 'way outside'.

Daddy Carl not wanting to disgruntle another son, did some fast talkin' to Pastor Rick LeClair who just so happened to have a lot of extra cash on hand at the time because of his successful contracting business.

Rick LeClair purchased the house for Paul in Ricks name that summer. After the court case, appeals and outside scrutiny of the ministry died down Rick transferred the title of the house from his name to Pauls.

Rick also underwrote Pauls little side business of a Sports trading cards store in a peice of real estate in Fells Point. The business went belly up in less than a year.

Paul settled into his comfy suburban lifestyle and sharpened his repertoire of black jokes for social occasions. Of the choice few Paul was fond of repeating was the comment 'I like black people, I think everyone should own one'

Puzzling as it was , while daddy Carl proclaimed that God gave him a vision for a city wide ministry, Pastor Paul chose black people as the butt of his cynical jokes and mocked the black women who volunteered their voices in music ministry.

Was is it any surprise then that Pastor Paul picked out his gift home nearly twenty five miles outside of Baltimore city limits where many struggling church members and MBC&S students live?

Is it any surprise then that Pastor Paul hears 'the call' for 'his church' in Aberdeen even farther out from all those black folk and 'embarrassing white trash' in the city.

The argument is made that daddy Carl always included African Americans in the ministry.
Yes as long as 'they knew their place'.
Like Louis Hall who was for a long time the butt of many of daddy Carls jokes from the pulpit.
Or the token few like Pastor Tom Fields, Pastor Kevin Cooper, Pastor Monroe, or Pastor Law who were 'allowed' to read the opening scripture text for tonights message. But how often did they share the pulpit to preach like other pastors?

To perpetuate the ministry story that Greater Grace is inclusive of all peoples like the Body of Christ was meant to be is ANOTHER LIE on the part of P.Daddy Stevens and now his bumbling offspring Paul.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Who sent you? Certainly not God, more likely Carl and his minions. It smells of slander, you know familiar smell so prevalent from the GGWO camp. Hummmm, daddy is unhappy the seats are not filled on Sunday morning? He once again has sent a minion to do his dirty deeds. Interesting you would post this garbage on a Saturday. Anything to keep Carl happy and the money rolling in.

It was Carl that perpetrated lie of inclusiveness. It was Carl that used the African-Americans in GG. He is the one with the off-base jokes in private. He is the one that uses the token black pastor to read his scriptures. He used everyone; blacks, women, the rich for personal gain.

Carl bought his house in Harford County as did he Robinson's, Schaller's, Duffs, Capello's, the Lewis's and many more. If you were really in the know then you would aware the money was being passed around freely back then.

Slandering Paul is a blatant tactic and we see through you. You are a coward and enabler.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

what i dont understand is all these people that are fleeing the gg church and going to pauls church.... wasnt he reared up under the tutilage of "stevens-ism"? did he ever go out of the loop and get a good solid fundamental seminary education outside of TBS/GG? because as far as im concerned he may not be his daddy but he still adheres to the same deceptive doctrines if he knows no better

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

just a reminder about factnet taken from their home page..............

Independent individuals, organizations, or authors contributing documents to F.A.C.T.Net's research libraries may be exercising their constitutional rights of petition, free speech, participation in government, or freedom of religion in researching, evaluating and freely discussing any matter. These discussions or statements may be the constitutionally protected opinions, allegations, satire, fiction, or religious beliefs or religious opinions of these independent individuals, organizations, or authors and, as such, MAY OR MAY NOT BE FACTUAL

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

IT SEEM TO ME A VERY LOGICAL QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED ON THE LAST POST. HOW CAN PAUL SYTEVENS HAVE A TRULY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE BASED ON WHERE HE HAS BEEN AND WHERE TAUGHT. I MEAN NO HARM. IM JUST SKEPTICAL THAT THE BRANCH REALLY IS DIFFERENT THAN THE TREE WHICH GAVE THE ROOTS. DOES ANY OONE KNOW IF SEED MONEY WAS GIVEN FROM GG FOR THIS PLANTING? WHAT ABOUT THE COMMENT BY SOME HERE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE ATTENDING BOTH PLACES?

[Anonymous (67.243.240.33)]

Be reminded, Anon 152.163,
logical questions are'nt welcome at GGWO unless they are flattering to Carl H. Stevens.
Just the same it would be interesting to see someone from GGWO attempt to explain their answer to your question.

[Anonymous (69.139.232.85)]

Pastor Paul recieved no money from Baltimore. Also anyone worried about the Harford county work being like Baltimore, should come and see for yourself.

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

noone is worried about the work in hartford county 69... we just were asking where pauls doctrinal issues may now differ from his fathers. some of us cannot come to see for ourselves... it was just a lousey question... jeez.... get defensive all of a sudden or what!?

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

152.163
I wasn't defensive, just answering a question. And yes there are differences doctrinally.

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

where did he go to study these doctrinal differnces?

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

I care about Paul, but I wish he had stopped preaching altogether for a period of time. I would have liked to see him get some therapy, go to an actual college/seminary...and get his emotional, spiritual and doctrinal head screwed on straight before he began again. For his own sake3 and the sake of his family and congregation.

[Anonymous (63.27.91.239)]

There's a "whigger" named Carl at P. Paul's church! He's married to a honky woman named Glenda and plays keyboard.

[Anonymous (69.139.232.85)]

I think Pastor Paul deserves a little more credit than you're giving him RJ. He has certainly experienced enough pain with what happened in Baltimore, to know he does not want to go down that path EVER again.

152.163
It's called the Bible. You'd be suprised to know he doesn't always agree with his dad.

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

It isn't a matter not not giving Paul credit. Paul has been doubly indoctrinated with far too much false doctrine, seen too much corruption , and has been hurt by GGWO and his father. Anyone in his shoes has a lot of healing to do and really should get himeself some help.

As for college, I do not believe anyone who has been in GGWO as a pastor, a pastor not recognized by any other church btw and has had faulty training is doing himself or his congregation any good. I would love for Paul to get himself as free as possibly from the inprinted influences of the false doctrines and his own emotional confusion so he can be the man od God I know he is.

I say this for Paul's own sake. I am not thinking badly of him at all, except that I think he needs to heal before he pastor's any church. I would say the same for any other pastor who leaves GGWO. It is common sense that he would have a LOT to unlearn and relearn, and I want that for him.

[Dave (4.156.90.111)]

On Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 07:35 pm
Concerning Pastor Paul,
Anonymous (152.163.101.12) asked:

>>>
where did he go to study these doctrinal differences?
>>>

On Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 09:25 pm
Anonymous 69.139.232.85 answered:

>>>
152.163
It's called the Bible. You'd be surprised to know he doesn't always agree with his dad.
>>>

GGWO uses a Bible [e.g. King James] that has Pastor Carl Steven’s “doctrinal corrections” built in,
even though these corrections are not written in the text.

In Sunday’s message Pastor Steve was commenting on a long passage in Corinthians.
I was following along in my KJV and Pastor Steve was reading word for word until he came to “Holy Ghost”. When he got to “Holy Ghost”, he read “Holy Spirit” without mentioning that he was changing the text, per directions of Pastor Carl Stevens.

I wonder if any visitors who heard Pastor Paul’s message,
realized why Pastor Paul deviated from the King James Text.

There is an “u-n-w-r-i-t-t-e-n doctrine” at GGWO, that says when you see “Holy Ghost” in the KJV text, you read “Holy Spirit”

How can a member of GGWO study doctrinal differences using a King James Bible,
when Pastor Carl Stevens is continually telling his followers what the KJV should have said, instead of explaining what it does say.

To be redundant Pastor Carl Stevens has made so many u-n-w-r-i-t-t-e-n corrections to the text of the KJV,
That studying the KJV will not help the reader understand Bible doctrine.

How many members of GGWO read John 17:17 as “thy word is doctrine”
even though the text in front of them says “Thy word is truth”

Dave

[Dave (4.156.90.111)]

I am curious.

Do members of GGWO mark up their King James Bibles,
whenever Pastor Carl Stevens tells them that the text of the KJV is in error.

And if they do, that seems to indicate that at the Word of God evaluations,
they expect to be evaluated on Pastor Carl Steven's corrections of the Bible they are using,
rather than expecting to be evaluated on what their Bibles actually say.

Dave

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

Here we go again...

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

Dave, If God wanted underlining in the Bible, He would have done it Himself, or at least inspired those He inspired to do it. And what about those publishers who put pictures in? Aren't they adding to the Word of God?

[Dave (4.156.90.25)]

Bob, Do you think that the members of GGWO
remember the many changes that Pastor Carl Stevens recommends to the text of the KJV,
without marking up their Bibles?

I have more or less accepted that the following changes probably should be made to the KJV:

Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit about 80 times

JEHOVAH to Yahweh 4 times

Jehovah-jireh to Yahweh-jireh [I assume]
Jehovah-nissi to Yahweh-nissi [I assume]
Jehovah-shalom to Yahweh-shalom [I assume]

Exodus 34:6 The LORD, The LORD" to "Yahweh, Yahweh"

And 50% of the time John 17:17
"thy word is truth" to "thy word is doctrine"

I am less willing to accept this change 100% of the time,
since Pastor Carl Stevens seems to use each different translation about 50% of the time.

However I am not exposed to all the changes that Pastor Carl Stevens probably recommends at GGWO.

MAYBE PASTOR CARL STEVENS IS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

On The Grace Hour today, in Pastor Carl Steven's taped message,
he honored God's name as "Yahweh" two or more times.

Dave

[Anonymous (63.27.64.90)]

Thought this thread was about Paul Stevens?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Yes, it is, let's keep on track here.

Dave, does Paul Stevens use the King James bible?

[Dave (4.156.90.214)]

Yes, Pastor Paul Stevens uses the King James Bible.

But he doesn't believe it when it says that God's name is "JEHOVAH"

Like his father Pastor Carl Stevens,
and like his brother Pastor Steve Stevens
and like Dr. Lewis,
he and they believe that God's name is actually "Yahweh"

AND MAYBE ALL FOUR OF THEM ARE CORRECT,
AND HAVE SET A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR THE MEMBERS OF GGWO, AND EVEN FOR US DISIDENTS!

Dave

[Anonymous (69.139.232.85)]

Dave exactly what Bible should we all be using? What name should we give to God?
Let's cut to the chase and save us all time and space. You have beat this point to DEATH. Tell us oh great one...what Bible and what name.

[Anonymous (63.27.65.216)]

"Yes, it is, let's keep on track here."

"Dave, does Paul Stevens use the King James bible?"

Good one 64.12! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (67.193.54.86)]

Dave do you go to Pastor Paul's church still?

[Anonymous (67.193.54.86)]

Anonymous (63.27.91.239) you are disgusting and your mind is in the gutter. You need to grow up!! So now you're a big "man" when you can stoop to such a low life post and then greet Carl at church.

[Dave (4.156.90.113)]

On Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:09 pm
Anonymous (69.139.232.85) asked:

>>>
Dave exactly what Bible should we all be using?
What name should we give to God?
Let's cut to the chase and save us all time and space.
You have beat this point to DEATH.
Tell us oh great one...what Bible and what name.
>>>

Anonymous (69.139.232.85),

The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church of America has the answer to your question!

The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church of America
in 1893 testified that:

>>>
"THE BIBLE AS WE NOW HAVE IT,
IN ITS VARIOUS TRANSLATIONS AND REVISIONS,
WHEN FREED FROM ALL ERRORS AND MISTAKES OF TRANSLATORS, COPYISTS AND PRINTERS,
(IS)THE VERY WORD OF GOD,
AND CONSEQUENTLY
WHOLLY WITHOUT ERROR"
>>>

There you have it.

Merely get rid of any errors of any form that may exist in the KJV,
or whatever Bible you may be using,
and you will have a perfect Bible.

That can be done by translating only manuscripts that are absolutely free from mistakes,

And of course the translations must be perfect in every way.

Until you find the perfect Bible mentioned above,
there continues to be a controversy as to what God's name is.

However in the meantime:
Pastor Carl Stevens
and
Pastor Paul Stevens
and
Pastor Steve Stevens
and
Dr.Lewis
in unison tell you that God's name is "Yahweh".

The above four men may be right,
The above four men may be wrong.

Does that help?

Dave :-)

[Anonymous (67.193.54.244)]

And I mean "Carl the Whigger" not "Carl the abuser."

Your obvious prejudices say a whole lot (63). Some speculate you even being saved.

No visible fruit or love for the brethren. Tsk tsk tsk. So sad...

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

No Dave it doesn't help, it only causes confusion to those looking for honest help. Your posts have no purpose of thought.

The above four men MAY be right,
The above four men MAY be wrong.
Does that help?
ARE YOU KIDDING?

I know this, that God put in my hands the Bible he wanted me to study from.
Not the General Assembly of the First Church of the Discount House of Worship.

[Dave (4.156.84.224)]

Anonymous (68.34.76.34)says:
I know this, that God put in my hands the Bible he wanted me to study from.

Anonymous (68.34.76.34)

Since you have the Bible that God wants you to study from,
what does your Bible say God's name is at:

Exodus 3:15
Exodus 6:3
Exodus 34:6 [God mentions His name twice]

Dave

[Anonymous (63.27.20.49)]

67 you're flickted!

[Anonymous (65.113.124.115)]

Dave you are off the subject of this thread and you need to take your Jehovah-Yahweh BULL**** to another thread and stay on that thread only ok??

You are draining bandwidth and frankly people are sick to death of it. GO AWAY!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Anger management class for you 65.113.124.115.

Take slow deep breaths and count to ten. Now share what this anger is really all about.