Anonymous (70.16.22.231)
10-12-2004, 09:18 AM
Matthew 18:19 "Again I tell you, if two of you on earth agree (harmonize together, make a symphony together) about whatever [anything and everything] they may ask, it will come to pass and be done for them by My Father in heaven.
20 For wherever two or three are gathered (drawn together as My followers) in (into) My name, there I AM in the midst of them."
Gathered == suna,gw sunago {soon-ag'-o} • from 4862 and 71;;
v • AV - gather 15, be gathered together 12, gather together 9, come together 6, be gathered 4, be assembled 3, take in 3, misc 10; 62 • 1) to gather together, to gather 1a) to draw together, collect 1a1) of fishes 1a2) of a net in which they are caught 2) to bring together, assemble, collect 2a) to join together, join in one (those previously separated) 2b) to gather together by convoking 2c) to be gathered i.e. come together, gather, meet 3) to lead with one's self 3a) into one's home, i.e. to receive
hospitably, to entertain
Church--1577 evkklhsi,a ekklesia {ek-klay-see'-ah} • from a compound of 1537 and a derivative of 2564; TDNT - 3:501,394; n f • AV - church 115, assembly 3; 118 • 1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into
some public place, an assembly 1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating 1b) the assembly of the Israelites 1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance,
tumultuously 1d) in a Christian sense 1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting 1d2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own
religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake 1d3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company
and are united into one body 1d4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth 1d5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
Hebrews 10:24 "And let us consider and give attentive, continuous care to watching over one another, studying how we may stir up (stimulate and incite) to love and helpful deeds and noble activities,25 Not forsaking or neglecting to assemble together [as believers], as is the habit of some people, but admonishing (warning, urging, and encouraging) one another, and all the more faithfully as you see the day approaching."
Acts 15:22 "Then <FONT COLOR="ff0000">THE APOSTLES AND THE ELDERS, TOGETHER WITH THE WHOLE CHURCH, RESOLVED TO SELECT MEN FROM AMONG THEIR NUMBER AND SEND THEM</FONT> to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, [both] leading men among the brethren, and sent them. 23 With [them they sent] the following letter: The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings:
24As we have heard that some persons from our number have disturbed you with their teaching, unsettling your minds and [5] throwing you into confusion, although we gave them no express orders or instructions [on the points in question],25 It has been resolved by us in assembly to select men and send them [as messengers] to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"
THE WHOLE CHURCH WAS INVOLVED WITH SELECTING MEN, THIS INCLUDES SELECTING ELDERS which is not practiced in GG Baltimore
Can someone please explain to me why the Bible says one thing concerning churches and gathering together and rather now there are organizations not run like New Testament churches in the NT were run.
My other question is concerning Matthew 6:31-34 and
Philippians 4:13 "I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me [I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who [7] infuses inner strength into me; I am [8] self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency].
14But it was right and commendable and noble of you to contribute for my needs and to share my difficulties with me.
15And you Philippians yourselves well know that in the early days of the Gospel ministry, when I left Macedonia, no church (assembly) entered into partnership with me and opened up [a debit and credit] account in giving and receiving except you only.16 For even in Thessalonica you sent [me contributions] for my needs, not only once but a second time.17 Not that I seek or am eager for [your] gift, but I do seek and am eager for the fruit which increases to your credit [the harvest of blessing that is accumulating to your account].18 But I have [your full payment] and more; I have everything I need and am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent me. [They are the] fragrant odor of an offering and sacrifice which God welcomes and in which He delights.19 And my God will liberally supply ([9] fill to the full) your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus."
Proverbs 3:5 Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding.6 In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.7 Be not wise in your own eyes; reverently fear and worship the Lord and turn [entirely] away from evil.8 It shall be health to your nerves and sinews, and marrow and moistening to your bones.9 Honor the Lord with your capital and sufficiency [from righteous labors] and with the firstfruits of all your income;"
With all these verses and more a church should never have to manipulate a Christian to give to the work of God. A true Fellowship trusts the Holy Spirit in each person to do what is right and how they are led before God.
I remember visiting the sweetest fellowship for a few weeks. They had a basket in the back in the back of the chapel and never once asked for money, yet people always left some in the basket.
The church was a thriving one too. They really believed that the Holy Spirit could speak to people and that God would take care of their church.
Oh that we all could be like that. Nothing quenches the Spirit more in a person than when someone is on a stage begging and manipulating and coerce to get money. Where is the trusting God for the Holy Spirit in the believer? How sad.
How very sad.
20 For wherever two or three are gathered (drawn together as My followers) in (into) My name, there I AM in the midst of them."
Gathered == suna,gw sunago {soon-ag'-o} • from 4862 and 71;;
v • AV - gather 15, be gathered together 12, gather together 9, come together 6, be gathered 4, be assembled 3, take in 3, misc 10; 62 • 1) to gather together, to gather 1a) to draw together, collect 1a1) of fishes 1a2) of a net in which they are caught 2) to bring together, assemble, collect 2a) to join together, join in one (those previously separated) 2b) to gather together by convoking 2c) to be gathered i.e. come together, gather, meet 3) to lead with one's self 3a) into one's home, i.e. to receive
hospitably, to entertain
Church--1577 evkklhsi,a ekklesia {ek-klay-see'-ah} • from a compound of 1537 and a derivative of 2564; TDNT - 3:501,394; n f • AV - church 115, assembly 3; 118 • 1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into
some public place, an assembly 1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating 1b) the assembly of the Israelites 1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance,
tumultuously 1d) in a Christian sense 1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting 1d2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own
religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake 1d3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company
and are united into one body 1d4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth 1d5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
Hebrews 10:24 "And let us consider and give attentive, continuous care to watching over one another, studying how we may stir up (stimulate and incite) to love and helpful deeds and noble activities,25 Not forsaking or neglecting to assemble together [as believers], as is the habit of some people, but admonishing (warning, urging, and encouraging) one another, and all the more faithfully as you see the day approaching."
Acts 15:22 "Then <FONT COLOR="ff0000">THE APOSTLES AND THE ELDERS, TOGETHER WITH THE WHOLE CHURCH, RESOLVED TO SELECT MEN FROM AMONG THEIR NUMBER AND SEND THEM</FONT> to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, [both] leading men among the brethren, and sent them. 23 With [them they sent] the following letter: The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings:
24As we have heard that some persons from our number have disturbed you with their teaching, unsettling your minds and [5] throwing you into confusion, although we gave them no express orders or instructions [on the points in question],25 It has been resolved by us in assembly to select men and send them [as messengers] to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"
THE WHOLE CHURCH WAS INVOLVED WITH SELECTING MEN, THIS INCLUDES SELECTING ELDERS which is not practiced in GG Baltimore
Can someone please explain to me why the Bible says one thing concerning churches and gathering together and rather now there are organizations not run like New Testament churches in the NT were run.
My other question is concerning Matthew 6:31-34 and
Philippians 4:13 "I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me [I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who [7] infuses inner strength into me; I am [8] self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency].
14But it was right and commendable and noble of you to contribute for my needs and to share my difficulties with me.
15And you Philippians yourselves well know that in the early days of the Gospel ministry, when I left Macedonia, no church (assembly) entered into partnership with me and opened up [a debit and credit] account in giving and receiving except you only.16 For even in Thessalonica you sent [me contributions] for my needs, not only once but a second time.17 Not that I seek or am eager for [your] gift, but I do seek and am eager for the fruit which increases to your credit [the harvest of blessing that is accumulating to your account].18 But I have [your full payment] and more; I have everything I need and am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent me. [They are the] fragrant odor of an offering and sacrifice which God welcomes and in which He delights.19 And my God will liberally supply ([9] fill to the full) your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus."
Proverbs 3:5 Lean on, trust in, and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding.6 In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.7 Be not wise in your own eyes; reverently fear and worship the Lord and turn [entirely] away from evil.8 It shall be health to your nerves and sinews, and marrow and moistening to your bones.9 Honor the Lord with your capital and sufficiency [from righteous labors] and with the firstfruits of all your income;"
With all these verses and more a church should never have to manipulate a Christian to give to the work of God. A true Fellowship trusts the Holy Spirit in each person to do what is right and how they are led before God.
I remember visiting the sweetest fellowship for a few weeks. They had a basket in the back in the back of the chapel and never once asked for money, yet people always left some in the basket.
The church was a thriving one too. They really believed that the Holy Spirit could speak to people and that God would take care of their church.
Oh that we all could be like that. Nothing quenches the Spirit more in a person than when someone is on a stage begging and manipulating and coerce to get money. Where is the trusting God for the Holy Spirit in the believer? How sad.
How very sad.