Music Ministry at GGWO or Annettebs Opportunity to Control

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

Has anyone out in "cyberland" NOT had the opportunity to exercise their God-given musical talents and abilities because of the limited opportunites at Greater Grace World Outreach?

You don't know how many times I tired of listening to Loretta Young's truck-wide vibrato or Rut's listless attempts at singing.

But I must give Lorretta credit for sticking with that icky choir.

During rehearsal people who couldn't carry a tune in the bucket would usurp Pastor Arto and Loretta; giving unsolicited, and ignorant might I add, suggestion continually.

What gives?

What ever happened to:

Bob Soprano?
Jeff Brunty?
How about the members of Seven, where did they all go?
And then Seven's replacement; the New Seven; it seems like lots of people have left that group too!
Have people like Angie Wright... every had a chance to sing? NOPE!

There was that guy that walked funny and play awesome guitar.
Wasn't he from Mexico? Where did he go?

There are SOOO many other examples that it would take up too much space to mention them all!
Where did they ALL go and why?

Annette I hope your reading this and will consider what you are doing.

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

Oh I almost forgot? What do they sing the same old songs for worship EVERY week?

And why do they limit the moving of the Spirit of God by having a time limit on the worship.

God forbid we should ever break into spontaneous praise and worship.

The only times I sensed an anointing during praise and worship were when Pastor TJ led.
Under the circumstances of Pastor Paul's unconfessed sin I now understand why.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

4.139.12.183,

Do you do anything except post hate on this board night and day? For God's sake, SHUTUP!!!!!

Why don't you go buy a tube of superglue, use it to hold all your typing fingers together, then use the rest as lipstick?

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

"Touchet" Great comeback!!!

But "Talkin" why didn't you sign your name on this one?

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

Talkin,

Also you've already admitted that you don't attend GGWO church services.

Oh wait a minute... you did admit that you attended once with a teacher who saved a place for you. Wasn't that the time you got creeped out by "Pastor" and his worshippers? I would have to say I agreed with your observation. However, isn't it rather hypocritical to say "shut up" to a FELLOW slanderer?

My understanding of this board is to vent hurt and anger and to bring out issues experienced with the organization and leadership.

P.S. This board is for music ministry NOT GGCA

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Because I am not "Talkin". You are not as clever as you think you are

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

My apologies to "Talkin!"

I am glad to see that I can provoke some kind of a response from the COMPLACENT body members at GGWO. Maybe it will wake somebody up and prevent them from "drinking the Kool-aid."

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Sorry, wrong again. I'm not a GGWO member either. Just someone sick of your nasty mouth

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

Fair enough!

But please keep your facts straight! That would be my "nasty fingers!"

Oops there I go again! Well, guess I am exercising my God-given Constitutional right and so are you!

God bless and I must say I admired the "super glue" comment!

Also, please go hear the choir at GGWO sometime. I am sure you will understand my point of view a little more!

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

I have heard them years ago when I used to go there. I don't agree with your opinion of them. Or of Annette either.

[Pam P. (198.200.181.206)]

Jeff Brunty sang a song this past Sunday Morning I believe.

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

Say What? 64.12.116.66,

Could it be that the caustic fingers of this board are one and the same as Board #9?
But how can this be? Was it not there that you relayed words of mercy, empathy and hope? Suggesting that I share my story via your e-mail address.
Yet the suggestion for how I might use Super Glue presented on this board still rings within my ears. Does this suggestion not counterdict your gracious offer found on Board #9?

Did you not suggest I apply "Superglue to my fingers put them together and then use the rest as lipstick" or did I misunderstand?

Perhaps you are sharing a computer with an irrate, intolerant member of your household?
Nonetheless, the paradox of your paradigm causes me to respond to decline your offer of Thread #9...

No, I think I will Super Glue my lips shut after all. At least as far as disclosing my story to such duplicity.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

4.139,
Don't you understand the IP thing yet? Many people can have the same IP. I was the one who suggested the super glue to you. The person who wanted you to e-mail them was someone else. And no, we are not in the same household. Probably just have the same internet provider http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

4.139.. that wasn't me on this thread.. look for tone and content before jumping to conclusions. write me GGD

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

4.139.. many say you are plant. Say it is not true!

[Anonymous (4.139.12.183)]

IT IS NOT TRUE!

[Anonymous (80.74.209.79)]

Please, no country.

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

My family was at the Wednesday evening service. The first in many months. It was a pleasure for me to hear some good old southern gospel music from that mens quartet. I had a chance to speak with a few of them. They have been truely blessed with a wonderful ministry! I think two of them are from GGWO and I think it is wonderful that the music department would let them sing.
My hope is that they allow more of that kind of "back to the basics" southern gospel music at GGWO. Maybe they can get these guys to do a concert during convention.

There is a definate message in the music. These are the things that GGWO needs to hear. There is a healing power in the music.

To the earlier post of Wed 5/26 6:16pm

If you can do a better job at singing than Loretta Young or Ruut go right ahead. Have you ever been in front of a few thousand people singing or even speaking??? I bet you have NOT! It is so sad that some people have the nerve to be so critical of others when they couldn't carry a tune in a bucket themselves!

You have a right to your opinion, just be careful of the words you speak. They may come back to bite you!

A Friend in Christ

[anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

I have a problem with the fact that even though a song may be edifying and have an awesome spiritual message, we're not allowed to sing anything that's in a minor key. Why?? Because Pastor doesn't like minor keys. He may not like the color blue either, but does that mean I'm not allowed to wear blue clothes on stage?

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.236)]

4.139. is as good as a plant. She gives Pastor every reason to say this board is "100% satanic garbage."

Thanks 4.139. Screwtape would be proud of ya.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

I agree Sam Spade, with your post at 3:08 p.m. yesterday. She is as good as a plant. Probably one of those disgruntled ones again. Like cactus?
Prickers everywhere.

All she does is complain, degrade people, and she comes across as a know it all.

By the way Sam are you coming early to convention with Mrs. Spade?????? Just curious.

[Sam Spade (200.78.45.10)]

205,
Errrr...not sure...why?

[Anonymous (4.139.90.80)]

205.188.117.20:

By mimicking my KNOW IT ALL ATTITUDE and exercising COMPLAINTS through DEGRADATION of my character; you've paid me the highest compliment.
After all, is not mimicry the highest form of flattery. Thanks!

Also, just in case you own a dictionary; please look up the word "hypocrite" in it.
If you have difficulty finding this word I'm sure your task will be made easier by simply looking for a photograph of yourself near the word 'HYPOCRITE'.

[Anonymous (4.139.90.80)]

Dont' cacti have beautiful flowers too?

Food for thought; so don't choke!

[Anonymous (4.139.18.209)]

Annette?

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

I never tire of Rut's singing even listen to her cd in my car. It is so relaxing when I am caught in traffic.

[Anonymous (12.77.46.152)]

64.12.116.66 is the caustic self-righteouss poster on board #9.She is very good at decieving and gaining sympathy.Be not fooled anyone, for she is more loyal to stevens then to Christ.
64, I hope the person you are suing isn't a christian, dear. Because if he is, then you and your lawyer,who you suddenly now respect and of course it has nothing to do with the fact that he suddenly decided to represent you,are going against what the bible teaches about suing a brother and oh mygosh then what!As is the main theme about you, you ARE a hypocrite!

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

To: Sat. 5/29 3:09p

I think you are onto something here.

[Anonymous (12.77.55.145)]

One convention they played Rut's cd over and over and over and over and over again.By that Saturday night I didn't want to buy it I was so sick of it!It was worse than listening to the newest pop song.

[Anonymous (4.139.27.250)]

Sounds like "Rut" is an appropriate name.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

RUUT sucks and her attitude follows..........

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

now there's a nice Christian attitude for ya

[Anonymous (141.157.87.67)]

hmm.. tj hassler anointed? guess he's got you fooled too.

[Anonymous (4.139.15.120)]

FINISHED WORK SINGERS... Need I say more?

[Anonymous (4.139.90.67)]

You mean the "Monotones"

[Anonymous (24.172.35.20)]

OK Please move to the new board:

Yes, yes sorry. I am sure I left off to many.

Now move on:

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2056.html?1086312940

[Anonymous (4.139.15.217)]

Annette!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous (4.139.18.42)]

Why is Pastor Paul Stevens still leading worship and involved at GGWO if there was a falling out with his father?

Is this a cover-up to put on the face of "unity" to preserve the "family assests" or was the later a rumor?

Evidently many former GGWO members are now attending P. Paul's "affliate ministry" in the Aberdeen Amory at 2:30 pm on Sunday afternoons.

Would someone please explain this indiscrepancy?

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

My understanding is that this is very much with the blessing of gg leadership- they don't want to lose all those folks (esp the wealthy one who loves P. Paul).
It is a very creative way to maintain some measure of "unity" and connection- Paul will never fall far from the tree and they know it!

[Anonymous (65.96.153.178)]

"DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE! Signed God...

[Anonymous (4.139.12.246)]

How did that litte hatchet faced b__ch get the job as head of the music ministry. She must have something on someone!

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Here's some music for GGWO, see how it fits:

"Mirrors on the ceiling
Pink champagne on ice
And she said
We are all just prisoners here
Of our own device
And in the master's chambers
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
Relax said the nightman
We are programed to recieve
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave"
Eagles, Hotel California

AND...

"Out on the road today, I saw a DEADHEAD sticker on a Cadillac
A little voice Inside my head said, "Don't look back. You can never look back."
I thought I knew what love was
What did I know?
Those days are gone forever
I should just let them go but..."
Don Henley, Boys of Summer

[Anonymous (4.139.3.144)]

Pastor Arto, what do you think?

[Anonymous (4.139.15.221)]

Is that monotonous, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, singer "Windy" Atkins still singing Pastor's theme song?

HE'LL DO IT AGAIN.

You know, the woman from Delaware whose hair is flattened to the back of her head and looks like "garbage bag twists." Bet her hair would crack and snap in two if you bent it.

[Anonymous (4.155.0.61)]

What an appropriate song for PASTOR -

HE'LL DO IT AGAIN!!!!!


You bet your sweet ___ he will.

[Anonymous (4.139.12.146)]

A - Agressive & Arrogant
N - Nasty
N - Not Nice
E - Egotistical
T - Tempramental & Tough
T - Testy & Terse
E - Economical [with use of others talent @ GGWO]

[Anonymous (4.139.18.108)]

Guess Steven's figured out Annette's brick" was for power...

"Pastor" is a genius at figuring out what it is people are looking for. Is it: power, love, acceptance... or what? He uses these "hooks", along with many others, to manipulate people into being loyal to this mess known as Greater Grace World Outreach.

[Anonymous (4.139.18.108)]

Read The Prince sometime by Machivelli...it's VERY sobbering to see similarities in patterns for controling the "masses" employed by GGWO and written about in this book from the 15th century!

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Now you know what he means or any GGWO pastor
means when they say God wants to "use you"
Thats Carlspeak for- I'm gonna use you as long as you dont discern what I'm doing

[Bob Brinton (151.203.179.90)]

Cordell, Thank you for posting that bit from 'Hotel California'. It certainly fits in here. Bob

[Anonymous (24.154.48.40)]

Wendy Atkins goes to church in Baltimore? When did she leave Newark? Don't you like her addition to your ministry?

[Anonymous (216.37.223.4)]

Wendy is a beautiful spirit filled person and shame on you for talking about her that way. We are here to love and care for one another not take down someones spirit. May God let guilt fall on you who are here only to make jokes and take unfair stabs at people.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Don't feed the trolls.

[Anonymous (4.139.33.254)]

...and may God lay guilt on you for "worshipping" a man not Jesus Christ...shame on YOU!

[Anonymous (216.127.78.98)]

What Trolls? Cool

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (216.37.223.4)]

I do not worship any man most of all carl stevens I do think Wendy is a good person however.

[Anonymous (4.139.90.107)]

No one said Wendy wasn't a good person; just that she had ugly hair and sang boring music that was "Pastor's" song!

[Anonymous (67.249.230.186)]

Annette!!!!!!!
Why don't you talk to me?

[Anonymous (67.249.230.147)]

ANNETTE!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't you let me sing and play?
I asked you many times Please.

[Anonymous (67.249.230.241)]

Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 9:45 am was written by PASTOR STEVEN STEVENS...

Guess we don't have to figure out WHY Annette has usurped "Pastor's" authority on that one.
However, maybe if she doesn't let Steve sing he may tell another redundant "basketball story" and "fake cry."

Hmmmm...I don't know which is worse:

FAKE CRYING = P. STEVE SINGING

Gotta choose NONE OF THE ABOVE OPTIONS!!!

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Awesome. This place is really funny. Can we start a bad hair contest or most hideous stage performance thing?

Who remembers when that kind of fat pastor with the cowboy had got up and said, "...and thank you all for praying. When she woke up this morning there was blood and puss all over the sheets. Praise God!"

That was the most hysterical thing I had ever heard and I can't even type I'm laughing so hard and it happened years ago.

He's the same guy who sang some cornball ass song about 'ol glorry' with his guitar and would turn all throught he song and gaze at the flag over in the corner behind the drummer! God that was funny.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

The only thing close to that one was when that freak with the beard, what's his name????? Wayne something, was asked to sing some weird-ass song about a ship....." and my ship was tossed...." Blah blah, ...some "...raging" f'ing "seas....."

God was it bad. Everyone was just turning and looking at each other tring to solve the big mystery....."What the hell is this?"

No one could even pretend it made any sense!

That freakin' outdated f--k who sings like an opera f--k who feel off a truck and everyone neglected to tell him his vocal cords got cought in the thicket.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

in fact, if I could get ahold of his last name, I'd contact a freakin' surgion down at Johns Hopkins and pay the bastard to write a report and send it to him that said, "Due to extenuating circumstances your throat will need to be removed and replaced with the larynx or a screaching, strangled wildabeast"

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

if that didn't work, I'll remortgage my mother's house, promising to pay her back when I could, and pay some gorillas from off of North Ave to abduct him, have a coathanger in the back alley operation and replace his excuse of a voice with the recording inside my sister's "squeeze my tummie and I'll talk" doll.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

If mom wouldn't agree, then I'd be forced to cram a recording of screaching pigs getting hurded into a pen, with seagulls singing backup.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

This mini recorder would fit just perfectly in his nazial cavidy so as he breathed we could hear something more soothing than his original voice.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

If none of these brilliant attrocities would bring any lasting results, we could resort to strapping a short wave radio to his stomach and welding the dial permanently in between any stations you would choose, just as long as the sound was high pitched and unrecognizable, shrill and irritating. then, when the man was needed, he could be ushered on stage and the mics could pick up his sound. That would be better.

[Nancy Curra (172.172.178.32)]

I don't agree at all with all of the music lately, but to fault someone for the way God created them or to judge their heart when they are singing is to say the least very appalling. God said make a joyful noise unto the Lord. How dare you judge someone for not meeting your personal little Mt Zion standard? Shame on you. And such Godly language? reexamine your own heart. Unafraid of what man will say, yours truly, Nancy

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Now, we have to consider the posibility that a group will be needed for special feelings for the audience. In that case, we could chain several of these freakin' twits together, like they did with those poor arab prisoners, and wire them all with beast sounds from the wild, fingernails being run across a blackboard, furnices hissing and the like. Now that would sound better, AND.....look better.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

and if the freaks with permenent psychotic HAIR damage are going to punish me by making me see it when they screech, then we can get them back. Let's hand out wigs identical to the performer at the door along with those pamphlets on Sunday morning, and when the, dare I say artists....., get up to sing, we all doone the lookalike wigs and give them a taste of their own medicine.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Hey Nancy Cur Cur, If you're so appauled, why are you reading this chat thread? We're kicking up our heals and having a hay day doing so. If you want to "teach" go get a job as a teachr or find another thread to read.

You probably are violating your own beliefs by even visiting this sight so flak off! Haven't you got a life you can attend to?

Why would someone like you be visiting a sight that is obviously criticising music, and then teach the posters your oposing view? Do you think we are interested in that? Wrong.

God I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

Signed: Afraid of many men, especially the big ones that can whoop my ass.

[Anonymous (67.243.139.69)]

200 thanks for the endorphine rush! You are HILARIOUS! Any thoughts on Anette Beniz or other "musicians"?

P.S. Nancy's in a wheelchair...didn't know she was deaf too!

[Anonymous (67.243.139.69)]

How bout all wear wigs like "Pastors" Oops, couldn't do that; to "cultish" of a behavior huh?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Annette is the most normal of them all. But....let's see.

Could that transgenerder freak of a man in drag come back to visit like, three years ago....when she was a guest from some left over religious group with her matching puffy red lips and aubern hair. She sounded like a train in Boznia coming to a skreeching halt with food supplies.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

How about one million screeching ethics all moving back in forth in unison with their bastard faggot leader, that black, fake gem encrusted falsetto slut backed up by four dancing sista's. Who ever invited them to sing?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Why don't we just take anyone from any freakin' church, the qualifications are:

1. Helmet hair from the 70's
2. Miminum of 40 lbs over weight
3. Voice akin to any sound, from an animat or inanimate object, so long as it is capable of raising the hair on a neurologically damaged human with a rating of 1-9 on the no feeling scale, this in concert with a vile feeling in the digestive track.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Someone out there get an idea.

Big boobs, asses and hair does NOT equal voice!

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

How bout that left over dried out ancient piece of excriment that screems about Moses and all the other Biblical people! Would some one let him know this is not Vegas!

Also, why doens't he just sing the whole freakin Talmud.

You've heard of the Bible on tape, what about that has been skreeching the freakin Pentatuke to music. He does it anyway.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Maybe the idea is to squeek as many Biblical stories into one piece of music. For all we know, there is this international competition going on and he is using us to try to win the prize.

What if part of what Bin Laden is doing is because he wants to win the "Most religious stories in one song" competition and that f--king souther Babdist left over freak is stealing his show.

Could be that those caves in Afganistan are actually being used as echo chamber to hear the stories back accapella as the Koran is taking the lead.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

You know what? No one has ever uncover the truth behind Pearl Harbor and the bastard actor who tried to up the ratings of the film a couple years ago didn't help either.

I have a theory that the Japs felt that their shrill irritating voices were to dominate the planet and the discovered that some of our dear American vocalists were actually raising up as stiff competitors. So, what do you do? Bomb the **** out of them so you can be the most shrill.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

It certainly is the case that to get onto the stage to sing, one must not be concerned about anything as mundane as a voice. Why would one care about that, when there are so many other reasons to be there.

For example, on could show the hediousness of North American religious attire.

Or, the joy with which a culture receives gotesquely oversized humans into their entertaiment circles.

Posibly the threshold where a society endures public pain.

Or, the capacity for a group of people to miss what is very clear.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Script from the much aclaimed play, "Voice? Who cares about that? I'm going to be a Singer!!!!"

Voice instructor:"...dear, you have no voice.

Hopefull: "Get thee behind me! I'm going to be a singer."

V: "...in my professional opinion, you stand no chance."

H. "...But there are churches! Yes, there are churches where my gift will be received."

V. " ...well, there may be churches, but probably the people in them are somewhat interested in the sounds which will reach their ears."

H. "...you are negative! Why do you have that spirit? You need to be corrected."

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

What if there is this masterful plot by satan to get rid of all the good music on the planet and he is starting with our church. There would need to be this lowering of the standard so that no one would notice that in the end, the humans are just squeeling and gasping, hacking and convulting, spewing and squaking and the audience applauds.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Or what if he is rounding up these goolish disembodied spirits to watch the Christians believe that those sounds which are coming out of the stage rats are believed to be songs. What if it is the entertainment of the mocking enhungared demons and the hottest place on the planet is Baltimore for such laughs?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

What if in the spirit world they are selling tickets to front row seats to heal what fool actually believes he knows what a note is and the are taking bets on which one will actually hit one of the right cords before the song ends?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

What if there are season tickets and bookies. What if those demons are sacrificing cats and things so that Satan will honor their desire for the fattest, most grotesque excuse of a vocalist to waddle up the steps without breaking the structure, then have the base flesh of the planet sit there in awe, instead of walking out on the basis that they are too insulted to sit and pretend that sound coming out is music?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

"And Noah did this
And Noah did that,
Next Noah did this"....and I'm going to say it as fast as I can before I die from bordom and old style singing.........

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Hey, that guy should start a business in the Bible belt.....

A singing Biblegram.

You can call and order for instance, Leviticus to be sund to your ill aunt Mable in Kisseemmee Florida. You pay a fee, and the measly bastard gets on a Pam AM flight and coughs up the bloody entirety to the likings of your duranged family.

No one would enjoy that more then the blood sucking, entertainment depraived audiences of boredoms ville/church.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

"Moses did freaking this
:"Then Moses did freading that
"After a while Moses did the freaking next thing
"Then when he finnnnnnishhhhhed, he did this...

Brillant lyrics, and very nicely put to music. I can see why the big movie producers are knocking down your doors AND showing up enmass to get seats at services.

How many contracts did you have to say no to this last month alone?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

I say you should just lower the standard to the bottom, so that if a note is hit everyone claps.

Maybe that is what is really going on. Geez, I think I've missed it altogether. I'll bet the audience is clapping because some one of those singers actually hit a correct note!

What was I thinking?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Poor people who have to burst out into tears in the middle of their performances. Why don't they do the crying before they get on stage so at least the rest of us can hear the words. I mean, we are supposed to hear the words Right? It's not Guns and Roses, where the lead guitar is what we're there for.

So, whatever it is that gets the ol' tear ducts activated, should be put into place and turned on before I have to look at them.

It's one thing to adjust to matting calls of waterbuffelow on a stage, it's quite another to have your eyes trained for convulsions and public displays of uncontrollable emotional outburts.

After all, it's not a soap opera where we are all expecting that type of ****. It's embarrassing.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Maybe they have to many liquids in their systems. The body needs to dispose of liquids once it reaches it's max.

I'll bet if some test were conducted on those singers with spillage, results would show that the hydrogen and oxygen ratio was much above what is considered standard among performer of the fine arts.

Maybe something could be organized where by a testing station was set up near that copying machine in the back before the poorly missplaced carreer casualties actually reached the stage.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

"And Noah did this
"and the king of Prussia did this
"The the third cousin once removed form the ex cup bearer to Ahazuarus ended up doing something similar to Thissssss
"and it all ended up in a big tissy because of thissssssssssssss

And I am hoping to add 6 million new verses to this song and do thissssssssssssss

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

"And the person who used to feed the dogs which ended up having to be let go because they bit the neighbors' little sister and joined a pack that used to hang out near the North Gate of the old city of Jerusalem was one of the actual dogs that ended up eating the desicrated mangled and useless body of that mind f--king passed around whore named Jezabelll and after he dined on her splean he did thisssssssss......."

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Well fans, I ;have to walk the dogs. Be back in 15.

[Anonymous (216.108.204.185)]

You are sick get some help!!!!!

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

I've got the answer. We are all allowed to mimic the sound coming out of any singer at anytime, and send it back up the the stage. If some applicants are incapable of crating an identical such sound, props are allowed.

The ushers will be equiped with carts full of said props. Like, dolphins, screech owls, rabbits cornered and indanger, pigs at the slaughter house, and the like, as well as metal machinery that seriously need oil.

The audience is allowed to use as many of these props as necessary to feel that they have returned the audio favor to the stage.

[Bob Brinton (141.154.149.103)]

Sounds like something out of Harry Potter. Bob

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Ha, Harry Potter. Bob, did you think any of these posts were funny?

[honestabe (200.74.64.33)]

Hey, you stupid ****s that started this thread are probably worse singers then those who get through the screening, if anyone can imagine that! I for one am thanking my lucky stars that you HAVEN'T been able to sing. If those f'ed up excuses of vocalist, squarkers are allowed to get within a mile of a mic, I can't even imagine what your gasps sound like.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

As far as I'm concerned it's better that Annette does control the stage. If not her, than who? You damaged goods that think you know a bass cleft can't hold a candle to her and the hours she works, so bugger off!

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Who remembers those freaky singer, a family, from way back with all dark hair. The daughter stares lovingly, hypnotically at her precious father who tries to sing bass, and they all step back so the soloist can do his groovy part, and then they meet again at this imaginary line, like coriography? Does anyone remember them? The blew in from the ozone and received all these claps and I swear I thought I was in some weird time warp. A kind of barbarshop quartet with girl too.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Whoever started this thread said "God given talent...blah,blah, blah

Who the hell says you have an ounce of talent, you? Are you the one who has somehow concluded that you are talented or was it your mother who taught you to believe that?

[Anonymous (67.243.135.154)]

Duh Hoffmans

[Anonymous (67.243.135.154)]

"Pastor" tol me!

[Anonymous (67.243.135.154)]

...and since EVERYTHING he says is anointed, well...guess that settles things now doesn't it!

[Anonymous (67.243.135.154)]

Hey Annette is Carlos Seis, Leonard Bernstein's favorite tenor, FINALLY going to sing at Greater Grace or did "Pastor" ask him to sing "Forgiven-Forgotten" and it scared him away?

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Ha, good one.

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Maybe Carlos Seis can sing that ship song, you know with "The captian of my soul...." or whatever, then the tricky part

"Ship ahoy!"
"Ship ahoy! Oh now I know, "And I said to my Captian,
"Ship ahoy!"

Ohh god, I'm starting to go into hysterics again over this.

What is it with Christianity and the association to ships and lighthouses and all that? No one even knows about that stuff anymore. Someone's got to come up with some more relavent associations or the next generation of believers isn't going to get anything. Even I don't get half the stuff, but the music needs to be relavent. That's why pop music is popular, it deals with what is relavent. All these associations of ideals and limited vocabulary is going to chase thinking people away for Christianity. Have to hand it to that Ruut, at least she is bringing something interesting to the table in terms of writing. Every second word isn't best friend, savior, on a tree, pierced....you know what I mean? We all know that part, now someone has to come up with something new.

[PlsThinkOnThis (172.136.173.44)]

Hebrews 3:15 "Then while it is [still] called Today, if you would hear His voice and when you hear it, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion [in the desert, when the people provoked and irritated and embittered God against them]."
6Seeing then that the promise remains over [from past times] for some to enter that rest, and that those who formerly were given the good news about it and the opportunity, failed to appropriate it and did not enter because of disobedience,"

Hebrews 4:7 "Again He sets a definite day, [a new] Today, [and gives another opportunity of securing that rest] saying through David after so long a time in the words already quoted, Today, if you would hear His voice and when you hear it, do not harden your hearts."

In love, Nancy

[Anonymous (200.74.64.33)]

Are you saying I am not at rest?

[Nancy C (172.136.71.179)]

Bob Soprano? Still sings in church
Jeff Brunty? he and bob sang during Convention
How about the members of Seven, where did they all go? all still in Baltimore
And then Seven's replacement; the New Seven; it seems like lots of people have left that group too! they have been singing on and off with Seven and on stage for years.
Have people like Angie Wright... I personally asked Angie that question and her response to me was that she would rather not sing on stage, she just enjoys singing in the congregation, her words to me
There was that guy that walked funny and play awesome guitar. Josh, he and his wife moved to W.Va

[Anancymous (172.136.71.179)]

did i say anything to you 200746433? Did I mention your um is that a name?

I just posted Scripture. O is that a sin? My mistake I thought this was a Christian thread. Sorry would never dare offend. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

People will forget what you said but people will never forget how you
made them feel.

[Anonymous (67.243.131.46)]

Nancy, You don't know what you're talking about...'Josh who moved with his wife to W.V'
is a guy named Fabio or some other Hispanic name like that.

I remember him limping up onto the stage... I thought, "What the heck is that?" But when he played the guitar it was like heaven had touched the earth. He made the guys who are the regular players of the electric and acoustic guitars look stupid and incompetent. I bet they were probably jealous of this guy's talent so they never let him play.

The POINT is he, like so many others, is another talented musician who probably left cuz he NEVER got to use his God-given talents!

What's with the Nazi regime in GGWO's music department? I often wondered why P. Arto and that great piano player John never got to play more often too...

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Folks,

I don't know who the man 'Fabio' is, but I know this. There are musical situations in the "world" that offer more opportunity for aspiring players than the body of Christ at GGWO. Prior to coming to GGWO, I spend years playing at "Open Jams" with a variety of musicians some of them "Regional Pros" - folks that basically make their living teaching, performing, and recording in and around cosmopoltian areas.

At the time I did this, I worked a full-time job and was only able to give about 15-20 hours per week to music; yet I was considered by many of these pros to have "geat potential" on the "local scene" - an this in the hotly competitive area of jazz and R&B guitar. I also played in a "general business" band (i.e. wedding receptions, private parties, etc.), did "pit orchestra" work for a corporate "show choir" and studied Classical Guitar formally; making very good progress at this difficult art as well. All of these gigs required music reading, arranging, improvising, and soloing. - I.E. the VERY same skill set you need to "make it" playing in CHURCH!!

In our local "jam sessions" EVERYONE, who had the basic ability to get on the stage and "hang" was given an opportnity to play during the evening. Some could "really burn," others could only play rhythm - and that in limited keys. The point is a "musical communitity" developed where much "teaching" occurred - some of it by "confrontation". Let me explain: one night I was playing Electric Blues opposite a "local hero" named "Mr. Billy". Mr. Billy discerned that I was not leaving "enough space" (as I would "fill") in the rough Chicago-style blues that we were playing. After our "set", Mr. Billy "took me aside" and said threatenly "Hey man, get REAL, every time there was a HOLE (i.e. a "musical space") YOU were IN IT" IF YOU EVER WANT TO PLAY WITH ME AGAIN - go HOME and learn how to play rhythm guitar. Then "Mr. Billy" softened a bit, shook my hand and offered a list of recommended blues records to listen too. I was "shaken" (because Mr. Billy was basically "from the street" and I was not). ... My then Jazz Guitar teacher (a TOP recorded pro in both modern Jazz and traditional blues) said, "Hey man, you just got some schoolin' - you NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY WITH A BAND.

After several weeks of "shedd'in" (hard practice alone), I came back. The leader "paired" Mr. Billly and me for a "set". This time I only played "back stroke chink's on 2&4" follwed by laid back bass string shuffles. Mr. billy was FLOORED. The tunes GROOVED and he always had "space" for his rough, throaty vocals" After the verses, Mr. Billy had me solo through several choruses. At the set's end we "high-fived"!

I shared all of this, not because I'm proud of having been "worldly" but to say that more a real "coummnity" existed in these Jams (and in the MANY other musical situations I played in) then I EVER got to experience in 6 years at GGWO Baltimore. My point, is WHY CAN'T Philippians 2:1-4 be applied in the GGWO Music Ministry.

While I truly do respect the abilities of Annette, the Hadley's, Pastor Bob, Steve P., and many others, why can't a true "musical community" exist at GGWO? I would have been happy to play once a month for "special music" (and would have with great joy imparted my then 20+ years of guitar expertise to ANYONE who wanted it for FREE). It just never happen, even after repeated requests.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

I do not mean to sound critical, but since you have this "community" experience, perhaps you could have initiated this "musical community" at your house. Why was it up to them?

I am sure I need not remind you of this, but other readers might not know that GG musicians are volunteers and they all have day jobs and many have family responsibilities including spouses and children. Many of them have a dificult time making it to what little scheduled rehersals they have.

[Nancy (172.170.89.154)]

O sorry Fabio is still around, mostly goes to Hyattsville to sing in mornings last I heard. The only other one I remembered with guitar was Josh. sorry my mistake

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

While some in the music ministry at GG, or any other church for that matter, may have individual goals and visions for their musical abilities including teaching, performing, entertaining, personal fame and fortune, the purpose of the music ministry at GG is to compliment the church's mission which includes among other things, outreach, worship and edifying the church. It's the vision thing. It is not a side show. Many of those involved consider it to be part of their personal calling and ministry. Again, this can apply to any church, not just GG. I think there are some ministries where preaching and teaching the word is secondary to music and that is fine if that is their vision and calling. There are many fine Christian artists who minister the gospell quite effectively through their music. I thank God for them even though I am not familiar with the nuances of their doctrine. It gives my kids a healthy arternative to MTV.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

You could say that I did initiate somewhat of a "musical community" at my house. I feared that this could be percieved as being done "outside" the GGWO Music Ministry "covering" so I tried to be very careful with it. There were some minor conflicts due to the very nature of this issue.

Without wanting to sound defensive, I too work hard and have the most of the other responsiblities you mention. My only point is that this the BODY OF CHRIST where each member is to be honored and cherished. One way this can be done is to recognize and develop gifted musicians in the service of God's kingdom. Perhaps I'm idealistic, yet I know that others felt the same way I did. I don't mean to sound vindicitive or petty and certainly I understand the "Vision Thing". I'm simply suggesting that the GGWO Music Ministry "broaden" its vision to include some other players. I understand very well the function and purpose of Church music and certainly would not want to interject anything that would not be fitting unto its holiness. The reason I used the "blues jam" example above is because there are players in GGWO that don't know how to leave appropriate "space" for the other musicians or simply to allow the music itself to breathe. My lesson was learned "the hard way". In the Body of Christ there *should* be an *edifying way* to learn these things. All of this is about being mature, appropriate, and edifying in an IMPARTIAL way to raise as many as whom God has gifted to serve.

As far as people's schedules go, leaders CAN be developed who know how to patiently and competently organize, rehearse, and deploy a larger "community" of musicians and singers.

If you are "reading" here that the Music Ministry issues might be part of larger "systemic leadership problems" at GGWO then you're beginning to catch on.

[Anonymous (67.243.131.139)]

Fabian is his name NOT Fabio. It's impossible that he would play guitar and sing in Hyattsville since I heard that he recently passed away!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

I agree with everything you said except the systemic thing. If anything, leaders in the music ministry are stretched very thin and some of the details can be neglected or mismanaged.

Maybe I am overstepping, but perhaps you could be part of the solution.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

You really do understnd. You see it's the "systemic thing" that is the very reason the leaders in the music ministry are streched so thin.

I would have loved to be "part of the solution" but that would have involved a level of participation and trust that no one was willing to give me.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

If by systemic, you mean that there is something wrong with the quality or character of those running the music ministry, I disagree. They do the best they can with what they have and they do not do it perfectly.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Not at _ALL_. I LOVE and honor those who are "running" the music ministry. However, I do think some lessons in relaxation and tack could be in order, but that can be said of all of us at times. This morning, in the church that I now attend, an Elder shared that the Eldership is in reality the highest form of servanthood in the Church. A primary goal of leadership should be to develop other people's gifis and this involves allowing a diversity of participation in a fair and balanced way.

When I say "systemic" - I mean that throughout the GGWO leadership there are characteristics that can make it diffiicult to be flexible and inclusive. I attribute at least some of this to the over-emphasis of delegated authority and knowing one's "portion," as well as the *drive* to constantly prepare for the next service, outreach, etc.

Perhaps these things need to be re-thought. God is sovereign and folks need time to truly relax and rejoice together on a consistient and regular basis.

This is why I've sought pasture outside of GGWO.

[Bob Brinton (151.203.145.184)]

Systemic means that individuals are limited in what they can or can't do, by a system. It's like MacDonalds, ya know? You know what you're getting, but maybe there's a local place that has really good food. Why settle for those kangaroo burgers?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

I agree that there is room for improvement and I am sincerely glad that God has lead you to a church that suits you.

[Anonymous (67.249.224.60)]

Fabian died? When and how?

[Nancy (172.156.242.241)]

i didn't know he died. as i said i have been away in the hospital. that was the last I heard from a friend said who drove him to sing there

[Anonymous (63.27.26.182)]

How did that little hatchet faced b__ch get the job as a head of the music ministry.
She must have something on someone.

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

It is a shame that so many talented musicians are being sidelined from a calling that God may have on their lives because they cannot be given the "time" to sing or play in the band.
I remember a few really good groups of singers that are now gone grom GGWO because the "powers that be" told them at the last minute that they would not be able to sing that night. All because a "guest" singer or other "somebody" wanted to sing.

How sad Annette, that you have so much power!
How sad indeed!
And you are not all that great either, Cathy...

Anyone care to respond??????

[Anonymous (199.224.120.81)]

Well I think your words are well spoken for alot of us. How about the music ministiys that try to follow after home base it is sick and the talent is not the best if they would listen the ones God has gifted are much better because they sing from the heart to their Lord.

[Anonymous (63.27.18.117)]

That is SO true! Same old tired music EVERY stinking week! "I love to be in Your presence, with Your people singing praises..." and "I'm forgiven...because You were..." YAWN! IF only Annette and "friends" would allow the Holy Spirit free reign! There's a concept...but NO, God belongs in a box, just like EVERYTHING else at GGWO. It's THEIR prescription of just HOW the time should be allotted for "worship" No, the TRUE worship occurs when EVERYONE is EXPECTED to stand to their feet everytime that feeble old man shuffles into the chapel, goes to the pulpit, opens his mouth, scratchs his nuts, picks his underwear out of his butt, clears his throat, picks his nose...Oops, did I write that,
The message: Music ministry must NOT interfere with PASTOR'S time! Be it "preaching" aka babble incoherently or brainwash his followers with "guilt trips" about questioning HIS authority and other "spiritual pearls of wisdom" or telling one of his many course and stupid jokes. THOSE THINGS are the priority NOT sensitivity to praises to God. What an "UNawesome" thing to do to God music ministry at GGWO BTW and FYI, Carl is NOT God and he is NOT the Good Shepherd, but Jesus is GGWO! Want some koolaid to help you swallow that truth "blind followers of Stevens" or are you waiting for a reinactment of Jonestown, Guyanna?

Be afraid, be VERY afraid!

[Anonymous (63.27.18.117)]

People who were NOT allowed to exercise one of their gifts [music] were smart to leave because they have as much chance as an ice cube in hell as having an opportunity to sing or play their instrument at GGWO! AMEN

[Anonymous (63.27.18.117)]

Only time the Holy Spirit seemed to come visit GGWO was when a lady named Flo used to sing! She'd limp with a cane up onto the stage and let loose with some Holy Ghost shouts! Most everyone in the congregation just sat like the "frozen chosen" Much like the zombies seen in a 1950's horror flick! But boy when "Pastor" would hit the door they were like trained seals in a circus, flapping their hands in worship and praises to their ONE pastor/teacher, as if waiting for their trainer to give them a slimy, raw fish! GAG!

[Anonymous (204.156.7.47)]

The worship leaders are gay. They are homosexuals. That is why the whole deal is so tightly knit. They can't let anyone into there circle that may go to other members and tell them what they noticed about the worship leaders.

[rotflmao (68.33.60.157)]

Why would I want to hear anyone sing that thinks they are God's gift to the music ministry? I'd much rather hear someone who considers it a privilege to be a part of it. You guys sound like you think you could really do the job. You wouldn't know an anointing if it slapped you in the face. Get real.


Ok. one, two, three...here comes the attack. Can't wait to see how your going to rip me to shreds...GO FOR IT!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Not going to rip you to shreds 68, just pray that you get out. The music ministry reflects the leadership and has nothing to do with the musician's hearts. I know alot of musicians being led elsewhere. I pray the same for you.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Like who?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

led elsewhere, like where people will appreciate their gift?

[Anonymous (63.27.22.51)]

It's not about appreciation it's about being able to grow in the gifts God has given each individual for His glory!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

sometimes one needs to be quiet to grow in His glory. By making noise, it's more like their glory.

[Anonymous (63.27.22.51)]

In response to "How sad Annette that you have so much power" posted on August 18th at 11:57 pm.

Because Annette believes she has received the authority from "Pastor" and has literally been "ordained" by God to be the leader of GGWO worship, she feels justified in her narrow, controling and prejudiced grip on this music ministry. Evidently, "Pastor" took each member to the side and one-by-one appointed them. For example, Steve Peragallo, the electric guitarist, claims he was told by "Pastor" "YOU are the guitarist here!" Therefore, these people think they have a RIGHT to STRUT and EXPLOIT this "God ordained" authority! Think they've forgotten that he who leads will be a servant to ALL! Annette Beniz, Steve Peragallo, Kathy Brown, et al...please consider the fact that others may want an opportunity to exercise their God-given spiritual gifts of music too. Take a moment and reflect on this TRUTH and get off your "high horses." Actually, Annette, Steve, and Kathy et al are obviously just a bunch of immature, insecure and mediocre musicians who are threatened by anyone displaying more talent than they!

Also GGWO's music ministry is just another example of the theology which places emphasis on "delegated authority." It has seeped into to EVERY nook and cranny of GGWO and affiliate ministries. YIKES!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Wow! I guess you haven't sung in a while. Wassa matter? The big kids won't let you play?
Perhaps your words are truly revealing what's going on in your heart and they were right to not let you sing.

[Anonymous (63.27.23.6)]

Guess I must have struck a nerve 68! Your mocking spirit exemplifies the nasty attitude many have encountered while attempting to utilize their God-given talents. Mock away hon, you have just incriminated yourself with your own pen. Frankly, I wait on God to use my gifts as HE sees fit since they are HIS! However, there are those who are less secure who have been emotionally and spiritually damaged by the practices found in GGWO's music ministry!

[Anonymous (63.27.23.6)]

Also, I would NEVER cast my pearls [spiritual gifts] before swine [a cult]!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Ya know, I get so sick of you people gettin' so ****ed off at someone callin' it whatever it is.
You slander people and the moment someone questions you call it mocking.

Geeeeeeeeezzzzzz.
What are your pearls anyhow?

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

Won't cast them before the likes of you either 68.33!

ps. Your "Geeeeeeeeeeeeeezzz" sounds just like something "Pastor's" guitarist would say...is that you Peragallo?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

you are wrong yet again

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Look, all I can say is that I hope you don't go to GGWO anymore. It would seem silly for you to.
You obviously have "issues" and a very, very mean spirit. Too bad. I hope you can find a church/ministry that has the kind of music program that doesn't bother you and can cater to your needs. God bless.

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

68.33,

Escucha quisiera decirte algunas palabras en la lengua de Cervantes, Por supuesto que NO asisto a ese sucio puerco-basura CULTO de GGWO,acerca de mi maldad espiritual. Quien puede definir eso? TU. Lo que tengo dentro de mi es el Espiritu Santo de Dios.
Al momento me encuentro buscando una iglesia verdadera que alabe al Dios Viviente, donde mi don musical es gratamente apreciado, hay mucho amor de Dios en los hermanos hablamos ingles y español. Ojala puedas entender.

If you want a translation for this ask the Dean of Women at MBC&S, P. Hadley.

[Lori (70.17.251.161)]

Here ya go free translation courtesy of

http://translation2.paralink.com/

"Listening wanted to say to you some words in the language of Cervantes, Surely I am not present at this dirty EDUCATED pig - garbage of GGWO, about my spiritual nastiness. The one who can define it? YOU. What I have inside me is the God's Holy Spirit.
To the moment I am looking for a real church that I praised to the Living God, where my musical gift is pleasantly valued, there is greatly God's love in the brothers we speak English and Spanish. I hope be able to understand."

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

usted no ha encontrado una iglesia todavía.
usted tiene emociones muy malas.
usted también piensa que usted es mierda caliente.

[Lori (70.17.251.161)]

translated 68.33 post

"you have not found a church yet.
you have very bad emotions.
you also think that you are hot ****."

again courtesy of the above website, we wouldn't want anyone to feel left out in this conversation now would we. lol

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Thanks lori. By the way, I sort of know your mom and I have always treasured her kind words.
I don't want to connect but I just wanted you to know that I know how awesome she is.

[Lori Argenzio (70.17.251.161)]

Thank you

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

Muchas gracias Lori por las traducciones, la verdad he encontrado un par de iglesias donde me siento placidamente confortable y la mejor manera de describir esto, es con la palabra: "cheverecachaimachochidoche"
Y usted 68, que solo sabe decir "usted" demuestra con sus palabras que usted No Tiene Ninguna Educacion y Usted Es la Persona con espiritu maligno.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Hey. Even I understood that last line.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Well, I don't have any education in spanish. What the heck is "cheverecachaimachochidoche"?

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Warum haben Sie solch ein Problem mit Englisch?

[Lori (70.17.251.161)]

Here is the translation from 63.27 to me

"Thank you very much Lori for the translations, the truth I have found a pair of churches where I feel placidly comfortable and the best way of describing this, it is with the word: "cheverecachaimachochidoche"
And you 68, who only can say " you " demonstrate with his words that you Do not have Any Education and you Are the Person with malignant spirit. "

[Lori Argenzio (70.17.251.161)]

Warum haben Sie solch ein Problem mit Englisch?

translated from German is...

Why do you have such a problem with English?

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

Okay, I'm going to enhance your Spanish education by defining the Mexican idiom "cheverecachaimachochidoche"...

..ready?...

......drumroll please...

......................it means...


................................"COOL!"

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Okay. Enough fun. I've got other fish to fry.
See ya ladies.

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

Jim, as a "good ol' boy" from Texas I'm surprised you did not know what this word meant.

Hablas español?

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

Annette es una VIEJA CARE PORONGA!

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

Jim you're a fellow rocker, did you know Van Halen is suing the Baltimore Orioles for canceling his concert in September?

[Anonymous (63.27.86.164)]

Lori, Afraid "poronga" will not be on your translation website, since it's an Argentine saying.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

I thought maybe portuguese

[Lori (70.17.251.161)]

Yeah I know that lol

[Anonymous (63.27.27.185)]

Tambien Annette es una vieja pelele, mico del Orate y apestosa!
Te gusta o no Te gusta!!!!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

You're filthy. Why are you so ****ed at Annette. Aren't you way bigger than her?

[Anonymous (63.27.27.185)]

Actually there is nothing "filthy" about what was written. I am not ****ed off with her but am ****ed off with the warped sense of authority she exhibits!
Annette treated a very good friend of mine like dirt when he came to visit two years ago during convention.

Do you know Pastor Dominick Di Piazza? He is a GGWO pastor from the south of France and was one of the top jazz guitarist in the world before becoming a minister. While visiting he NEVER had the opportunity to perform during services but was banished to his French booth in Newberrys only! Just another example of the insecurity and stupidity I described earlier on this thread! IDIOTS!

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

We have Van Halen coming through here in Sept. Haven't heard about the lawsuit.


And...

Lo siento, mi espanol es muy limitado.

We have a bar down here on the southside called "Cool Arrows"...I do understand that now.

[Nancy Curra (172.140.52.88)]

Pastor Dominick and his wife are good friends of mine and all was done by the French to ask if he could perform. I am not sure why that didn't happen. But I thought he did play at a service. Pretty sure I saw him on stage. I was the one who ran the booth that year. It was Orphan's First not the French booth, Pr. Dominick was playing there to help raise money for OF and for his ticket.

[Anonymous (172.140.52.88)]

and actually I think it is spelled Dominique, but I am not at home to check my CD, so I could be wrong.

[Anonymous (63.27.28.244)]

He NEVER played at ANY church service during convention but did play at an event "Guitar Wars." Another man from South America played too and this took place the last day of convention in the late afternoon! This was not publicized so there were only about 30 people in the audience. What an insult and waste! Since that day he has NEVER been back to GGWO Baltimore and I don't blame him a bit! You can bet if it was one of "Pastor's" yodelers they would be front and center with their choice of venue.

Once again thanks for nothing Annette!

[Anonymous (67.163.201.62)]

Which lends further evidence that to be in any position of authority at greater grace you go far by being mean spirited and of a small soul like Annette and others.

[Anonymous (63.27.28.244)]

Glad you see this too! I'm sure there are many other stories like this one to be told so let's hear them folks. Those of you fearfully trembling out there don't be afraid! You will not come down with an incurable disease nor will you be a "vomitous jerk" for telling the truth and letting others know they are not alone in their disillusionment! No, it's time for a little accountability and it begins by putting pressure on those in leadership at GGWO via this media so speak up!

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

I have heard that the "vomitous jerk" was a variation of a bad 60s dance performed by the Sex Pistols.

[Anonymous (63.27.28.244)]

Didn't know the "jerk" gave some folks an upset tummy back then. Perhaps if those wrist bands worn while sailing for seasickness had been invented this "tragedy" could have been prevented.

Don't you just love the images an adjective like "vomitous" conjurs up? This coupled with imagining that 60's dance is too funny for words!

Barf flying everywhere while twitching their bodies about! Too bad a canvas isn't near by, probably could come up with some cool abstract art! All danced to the strains of the Finished Work Singers singing in the background!

ROTFLMGO G=gut

[Anon Brief (64.12.117.20)]

Like Jackson Pollock after a three day tear...

[Anonymous (63.27.28.244)]

Exactly!!

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

The Vomitus Jerk....a new dance craze now enjoyed by cult leaders nationwide...dementia induced, nausea based projectile regurgitation caused by over self medicationg, paranoia and delusions of divine mojo.

Characteristics may include but are not limited to, shadow boxing center stage, moon walking, revealing and breaking confidences into the microphone glued to chin, confusion:"Did I preach yet?" and the marked rise is odd claims of people dying if they go against you, past sexual and financial indescretions, the constant wiping of the probiscous in public and shaming people in public for lesser offenses against God and congregation than one's own.

[Anonymous (207.156.7.90)]

http://www.neuserbasses.com/dominique.html

Dominique Di-Piazza is REALLY good. Wish I had been at the Guitar Wars to hear him (although that would mean going back to the cult, so maybe I'll just buy some of his old recordings).

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

But see, it shouldn't matter. If he has given his lift to Christ, then he should trust Him as to when "his gift will be used". Even if the schedule got screwed up and he didn't get his chance to play. A humble heart gets OVER IT!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

sorry, given his *life*

[Anonymous (63.27.30.228)]

Perhaps if the music ministry leaders demonstrated an attitude of "a humble heart gets over it" then others would follow suit. No this leadership clearly monopolizes every opportunity for music ministry and share the privilege with very few. For example, take Kathy Brown's teen-age girl choir [who CONSTANTLY dress inappropriately on stage !]. They continue to take precedance over say, Pastor Arto, who is a wonderfully talented and humble classical pianist.

There is a lot of talent and musicianship laying dorment at GGWO because of "Pastor's" influence and/or Annette's dominance so 68 if you know Annette or are her please give consideration to the frustrated posts here on this thread!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

You just can't get those girls to dress appropriately. Which raises the question about why the parents let them dress that way.

I agree that P. Arto and others are a great asset to the music and occaisionally they do play. But there is the issue of the congregation appreciating it also. You tend to reach more people, more of a variety of people, with certain types of music.
You think Annette is the culprit, and you are wrong. You think she is controlling. You are wrong.
That's all I'll say.

[Nancy C (172.203.13.53)]

By that comment do you mean that music should suit the congregation even if it doesn't glorify God? Because singing in showtune style or dressing inappropriateley and singing what the congregation wants to hears, to tickle ears? I would rather be in a church that teaches by example in their music ministry not to compromise and to glorify God and allow the truly annointed to play and sing, If that offends a congregation then they need to get their hearts right with the real Jesus Christ of the Bible and the real Creator God. I am appalled and shocked and embarrassed by some of what goes on in terms of music now in my church. I have on foot out the door waiting on God's direction.

[Nancy C (172.203.13.53)]

By that comment do you mean that music should suit the congregation even if it doesn't glorify God? Because singing in showtune style or dressing inappropriateley and singing what the congregation wants to hears, to tickle ears? I would rather be in a church that teaches by example in their music ministry not to compromise and to glorify God and allow the truly annointed to play and sing, If that offends a congregation then they need to get their hearts right with the real Jesus Christ of the Bible and the real Creator God. I am appalled and shocked and embarrassed by some of what goes on in terms of music now in my church. I have one foot out the door waiting on God's direction.

[Anonymous (63.27.1.52)]

Yes, some of those "children" dress like Brittany Spears. What do they want an anointing or all the men to get erections in the congregation?
No doubt Annette is "submitting" to Pastor Stevens' authority and God knows his taste in music is GROSS! Too bad they want to appeal to the masses poor taste and lack of appreciation of fine music! Also WHY do they put the Holy Spirit in a four minute box for special music and WHY do they play the same old tired tunes EVERY single service? The "Finished Work Singers" sound as tired as the songs they sing! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

No, Nancy, that's not what I mean. And pardon me but why are you deciding what glorifies God? Ya know, there is always someone who is upset over something about the music. No matter who plays what.
I don't know why they let those girls up there like that. It's not so men can get off on it. It's probably because the kids would get offended, the parents of the girls would get offended and so on. It must be a hard decision to allow the girls to sing when they are dressed like that.
Finished Work does sound tired.
The 4 minute box 63. reffered to I believe is because of offering time. If you want a church that's all about music and worship go to that church in Timonium, what's it called, Grace Fellowship or something. They love to sing, sing, sing.

[Anonymous (63.27.1.52)]

Grace Fellowship is a cult too. They practice "shepherding" in their home groups.
No man or woman is going to make me confess my sins to them and no man or woman is going to make life changing decisions for me either. God's Holy Spirit is who I am accountable to, that is all!

[Nancy (172.203.13.53)]

I am not deciding what glorifies God, I do know what doesn't glorify Him. And I am not interested in debating or arguing over the issue. I simply made a statement and many feel the same way. In the past Pastor had a policy about how people should dress who sing on stage. It was Godly and Biblical. Do you think it is appropriate to not be the iron who sharpens iron when it comes to the matter of decency? What kind of Christ are we presenting to these young people? Dressing inappropriately can cause them bigger problems than just singing on stage. Do we love them? Most of these children and their parents have been in GG for 15 years or more. And yes actually the Scripture is very specific on how a woman should dress, so don't blame me, take it to God.

[Dave Carson (207.156.7.90)]

Anonymous 63:

I've known GG refugees who have gone to Grace Fellowship and enjoyed the experience. Could you be more specific? I have e-mailed their Small Groups Pastor and will post his replies to any questions or complaints anyone here might have. The most powerful weapons we have are truth and mercy.

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

Nancy,
If I had the answer I would tell you. I don't run the music so I don't know why things are the way they are now. If the people want to know they can ask music people directly.
I remember the dress code for music. I thought it was a good idea although my friend had a hard time finding a knee length skirt that really hit her at the knee, just because the fasion industry decided it wasn't cool to make those anymore.

I adore you and I'm sorry you have had such a bad go of it.

[Anonymous (63.27.2.82)]

Dave, ask for a Mr. Leinweber, then ask him if their small groups utilize "accountability" through shepherding? According to Leinweber members of these groups must confess their sins to the leader of the home group and turn to the leader for approval or disapproval of major life decisions! YIKES!
As a GGWO refugee too a friend and myself were "church shopping."While visiting Grace Fellowship we had a VERY positive experience UNTIL this "shepherding" issue came out!

In my opinion you'd be jumping from the "frying pan into the fire" if you go to Grace Fellowship!

[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

geeeez. didn't know about grace fellowship

[Anonymous (63.27.2.82)]

Just call um up and ask for a Mr. Leinweber, he'll tell you ALL about it!

[Nancy C (172.167.14.158)]

We have gone to Pastor about this issue and to Dr. Lewis also. I was called into another pastor's office 2 years ago because of this issue and a few other trends. So we have to stand before God and make Biblical choices for each of our lives. I have made mine.

[Anonymous (24.172.44.98)]

Most good churches have some accountability method. It sure was in place at the time of Paul.

[Dave Carson (207.156.7.90)]

I have contacted Grace Fellowship and am waiting for Pastor Leinweber to get back to me. From what I can see on their website, the small group leaders are considered lay pastors. I don't know how far their authority extends, but mutual accountability (including the confession of sin) is an important part of a healthy small group ministry. While CHS and his minions abused their authority and used concepts like "rebound" to cover their tracks, it is almost impossible to effectively deal with personal sin without disclosing it to a trusted, spiritual fellow struggler. The problem with the cult was that few were trustworthy or spiritual. We were taught to hide from the light and suffer in silence.

[Anonymous (63.27.27.188)]

Dave,

Do as the Holy Spirit instructs. However, "shepherding" is considered indicative of cults so please be cautious and God bless you!

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Dave, you make some good points. As you know, Carl Stevens uses 1 John 1:9 to back up his "rebound" doctrine. Would you put up the scripture behind what you've stated?

[Anonymous (63.27.27.188)]

Can you guys put it on the Doctrines or Bondage thread so others might benefit too? Thanks!

[Dave Carson (207.156.7.90)]

I'd start with James 5:13-20. The text mentions confession of sins to people (which would mean at least the elders of v.14 and possibly other believers), prayer, and turning wandering believers from sin. This sounds like an effective small group ministry to me.

I John 1:9 doesn't specify to whom confession is made, but the context of the letter and the chapter is fellowship with God and other believers, so neither can be excluded.

I believe what James and John are talking about is soul care, much like what Richard Baxter practiced and described in The Reformed Pastor (one of my favorite books). He preached his heart out and nothing happened. His church was revived when he began visiting the families in the church, inquiring after the condition of their souls, and teaching them. CHS kept people isolated and dependent on preaching, with no man to care for their souls. This was especially true for pastors in the cult. Most of the men I knew were gifted, but poorly trained and left to their own devices when it came to dealing with their own sinfulness. I spent more time both in the cult and afterwards cleaning up the messes that caused than with the problems of "ordinary" people.

That was a good question, Jim. The topic is certainly worth more discussion and study considering where we came from.

By the way, do you have a favorite college football team in Texas?

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Two. Hook 'em Horns and Texas State Bobcats (ex-SWTSU where Jim Wacker was coach--also my alma mater).

This passage also seems to square with what you've just said:

1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Fulfilling the law of Christ is what it means to owe no man anything but to love one another. Baxter's book is also one of my favorites. Will get it up on Recommended Reading shortly. His church was not small at the time either--and he used catechisms to help in growth.

While I am sure that we can maintain a godly accountability, all members of Christ's body are called to admonish, reprove, encourage, build up--being prepared for the work of that ministry by pastors and teachers. (Eph.4:2-16)

[DC (207.156.7.90)]

Gig 'Em, Aggies!

[Nancy (172.166.154.115)]

BTW 68 thank you for your kind words. Actually outwardly it would seem my family and I had a bad go, because of the facts I am sharing but inwardly God has given such peace. He is faithful to take care and lead us.

[jf (66.90.181.249)]

"Gig 'Em, Aggies!"

How many aggies does it take to eat an armadillo?

[DC (207.156.7.90)]

Tell us, Jim. How many Aggies does it take to eat an armadillo?

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Two. One to watch for cars.

[RJ (141.154.144.33)]

Which Texas school makes the huge bonfire that collapsed a few years ago

[jf (66.90.181.249)]

A&M Aggies

[Dave Carson (65.234.188.67)]

Good joke, Jim. Brings back old memories fresh armadillo roadkill. Yes, that's right. I confess here on FACTNet that I'm an Aggie. We could probably start a thread on how cultic that place is, but we sure had a great time building bonfires and beating Texas (at least when I was there.) Anyway, back to the REAL cult...

[jf (66.90.181.249)]

How do you get a Texas A & M graduate off your front porch?

You pay for your pizza!

What happened to the Aggie hockey team?
They drowned in spring training.

How do you make a one-armed Aggie fall out of a tree?
Wave.

What do you get when you line up several Aggies ear to ear and blow?
A wind tunnel.

Why does the new Aggie navy have glass bottomed boats?
So they can see the old Aggie navy.

An Aggie went riding, and everything was going fine until the horse suddenly started bouncing out of control. He tried to hang on, but with a foot caught in the stirrup, he fell off head-first. With his head bouncing up and down, the horse didn't even slow down. And just as the Aggie was giving up hope and losing consciousness, a Kmart employee came out and unplugged it.

OK enough now.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

BUT I SURE DO LOVE ROBERT EARL KEEN'S MUSIC!!!!

[jf (66.90.181.249)]

"This old porch is a steamin' greasy plate of enchiladas
With lots of cheese and onions and a guacamole salad
You can get them at the LaSalle Hotel in old downtown
With ice tea and a waitress who will smile every time
Oh yeah, I left a quarter tip on my ten dollar bill"

[Bob Brinton (141.154.150.128)]

Some good recreational reading above...

[Anonymous (63.27.2.71)]

I used to wonder why "Pastor" never sang praise and worship songs with everyone else during church services? He used to wander in just before worship was over, making his BIG entrance every service. He would also talk and laugh during special music or when other speakers were at the pulpit. Does he still engage in these VERY RUDE practices? Just WHO did he think he was anyway, a celebrity maybe? LOL!

[Bob Brinton (141.154.150.128)]

I remember him often coming in looking so intensely angry that you would think he was about to kill someone. I guess that was supposed to mean God was in a bad mood.

[Anonymous (131.207.157.217)]

Well that's funny, Bob, but i have noticed the same things. Talking in the pastors' section or even worse, joking and laughing there while somebody else is speaking has almost become a part of GGWO culture.

I think it is important for the pastor to somehow participate in the worship together with his flock, even if he is busy preparing for the message. Even one worship song would do. Otherwise you get a feeling that he is on a different level where a humble contact to God is no longer needed.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

ITS CALLED "EGO"

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

"Talking in the pastors section." Is that like a GG version of smoking in the boys room?

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

There was a pretty good singer at GGWO over the last couple of years. He sang with the choir, bass I think, and he also sang a couple of solos and sang with a quartet with two ladies and that guy Wayne that played trombone in the band.
Anyone know what happened to him? He had a good deep voice that pastor seemed to like. Haven't seen him in months. Also haven't seen the trombone player Wayne either.
Bet they got smart and left.
Maybe Annette ticked them off one too many times. Maybe Cathy wouldn't let them sing..
So sad...too many good people that bring a real heart for service are turned away...

[Anonymous (68.33.22.175)]

He is singing in a trio with Wayne and some other guy....I saw their pictures on a CD...and they travel to perform in churches

[get it straight (12.31.202.4)]

Before you run your mouth about what you know not of 68.83, get your facts straight. Wayne, the bass singer and the others are all touring together. Wayne Sears purchased a tour bus. They weren't asked to not sing on stage. Get it straight before you start hurling accusations.

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

Just to "Get it straight"...

I did some additional checking with a phone call. Just because I wanted the RIGHT information before I continued. Something you obviously did NOT do.

Both Wayne -the Tenor singer and Don it turns out -the Bass singer are with a Southern Gospel Quartet group called "March Forth" out of Pennsylvania.
March Forth has a tour bus. Not purchased by Wayne Sears! They owned it before he started singing with them.

I found the website at www.marchforth.org
There you will find all of the Straight info...

I plan to go to see them in concert when they are nearby. I hope God Blesses their ministry!
Always did like the way those two guys sounded with the other group.

THAT is what we in the south call Getting It Straight!!!


Seems like YOU need to get it straight!

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

I AM A STAR!!! HOW DARE YOU TREAT ME LIKE A ***GASP*** COMMON PERSON. GET THAT DAMN SPOT LIGHT OVER HERE ON MEEEEEEEE!!!! I SWEAR IF YOU DONT I WILL LEAVE FOR BROADWAY, AT LEAST THEY KNOW WHAT A STAR I AM.

[Anonymous (24.58.114.87)]

there is a whole lot of mind control on this site!

http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous (63.27.71.162)]

"EE-GADS, I REFUSE to work with THESE people!

...I'm ready for my close Mr. Demill daw-ling!"

[Dave Carson (207.156.7.90)]

Wayne Sears is a good man and very talented singer. Good to hear he's still doing it.

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

Wayne Sears is talented, and so is Don Schroth, the Bass singer. I know the choir misses his great Bass voice and gentle good humor.
I hope that he and Wayne do very well in their ministry of music!
I checked out the website of their new group. Pretty good stuff. Check it out www.marchforth.org

God Bless those that are not afraid to minister to others!

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

.

[Dave Carson (207.156.7.90)]

I worked with Wayne as his sound guy many years ago. He was always working to bring believers from many backgrounds together to glorify the Lord.

[THibault Gallea (62.167.193.46)]

I didn't see christ's manifestation in any of your messages. I haven't seen anything but hatred and judging. I hope you are aware of that. I'm from ggwo , and I really think you are missing something as I readyour messages criticising each other instead of loving each other above all. And you know, music ministery, is an appeal, not something we do when we wanna sing or know how to sing, it's independent of our will. God bless you all.

[Anonymous (63.27.69.120)]

THibault Gallea posted:

"I didn't see christ's manifestation in any of your messages. I haven't seen anything but hatred and judging."

In response to the above post, Factnet's function is to expose the lies of the leadership which have been "swept under the rug" by the "doctrine of confidentiality."

Granted, at times posters can be a little aggressive; however, those that bark the loudest are apparently the most wounded. So before YOU start practicing the judgement you claim others to do, I'd take a good, long look at the twisted doctrines of GGWO, which have perpetuated a lack of financial and organizational accountability for Stevens et al.

God bless you too!

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

I think it is time for some positive news to share here.

I recently heard Wayne and Don's quartet "March Forth" sing. These four guys really have a God given talent and bring an awesome Gospel message in their music. There is no EGO in them at all. I witnessed four men of God doing what they obviously love to do, and were called to do! You could see it in their faces as they sang! They were a blessing to all who heard! I know I came away with a feeling of great love for the Lord after listning to them.

GGWO may have lost two talented people in Wayne and Don, but the world is going to hear great things and be greatly Blessed by March Forth and their ministry of music. A ministry that is based in Truth and Love!
Check them out and go hear them, support them, pray for them.
I found their schedule at www.marchforth.org

By the way, I am not doing a commercial for them, I just feel led by the Lord to share something wonderful with my fellow believers that ALL may be Blessed!

Perhaps if more people shared positive things on this message board, more people would eventually turn towards the Lord!

Have a Great Day In The Lord!

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

THibault Gallea, you sound like avery shallow person.
You read how many of the 26,000 posts on fact net?
And you still dont get it? If you paid attention at all instead of making your own judging opinion on a passing glance maybe you may begin to understand. Take off your rose colored greater grace glasses and look again.
You criticise those here crying out from injustice and hurt yet fail to aknowledge the evil practiced by your pastor.
Blessed are those here who hunger and thirst for righteousness because they shall be filled.
You are no different THibault, than the guy who passes a homeless old man on the street and scolds him by telling her to get a job, but does nothing to relieve his hurt.
SHAME ON YOU.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Thank God you have Annette, You could be totally screwed and have Rhonda Im a star damit Campbell clinging to your bum like a dirty diaper

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

To anyone who would like to hear some good Southern Gospel Music...
I just found out that the group "March Forth" with Wayne Sears and Don Schroth will be performing at the York County Fair on Friday Sept 17th. Doing three shows.
I suggest that all of us that like good Gospel music go and hear what GOD is doing in their music ministry!
Wouldn't they be surprised - and Blessed to see some GGWO friends there to support them in their ministry of music! I think they at least deserve that much.
I say God Bless them in their ministry!

Check out their schedule for times and location at www.marchforth.org

No, I am NOT doing any type of commercial for them. Just trying to let God be Praised in everything, and build up a couple of guys that might be hurting a little after leaving GGWO.

I'll be there!

God Bless!

[Anonymous (155.188.191.4)]

There is no room WHATSOEVER for any vocalist or musician to offer ANY opinion that differs from that of THE QUEEN

[Anonymous (63.27.75.223)]

A big "AMEN" to that 155! What a freakin' BITCH!!!! Her interpersonal skills SUCK!

[Anonymous (63.27.20.126)]

Anyone out there remember that stupid song Pastor TJ would sing, "We have a ...., can't be defeated"? Did anyone notice that the response kinda went like this...

We have a CHURCH, can't be defeated =10 clapped
We have a BIBLE, can't be defeated = 7 clapped
We have a GOD, can't be defeated = 4 clapped
We have a PASTOR, can't be defeated...

...The roof would come down as the house jumped to their feet and hooted, clapped and cheered!

Isn't "Thou shalt have no other God besides Me" one of the Ten Commandments Greater Grace?

[Anonymous (63.27.20.126)]

It seems the plosive "P" [for "Pastor"]could be formed on the lips of someone speaking and those at GGWO would automatically jump to their feet in applause and adulation!

Gag me!

[Anonymous (63.27.20.126)]

God forbide anyone should recite from the pulpit, "Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Pickled Peppers"! [An image of the "wave" comes to mind" LOL!

[Anonymous (63.27.22.87)]

!

[Anonymous (152.163.101.13)]

A rather interesting progression of hierarchy, isn't it?

church->Bible->God->Pastor