Pyramid schemes of GGWO

[Anonymous (207.96.37.198)]

anyone remember the pyramid schemes GGWO got involved with? I recall water purification systems, vitamins and some telephone service....and the pressure from the pulpit to buy and promote these schemes

[Anonymous (69.143.68.103)]

Man, I've been looking at some threads and sites dedicated to Amway and other pyramid schemes. There are links from Factnet (go to the corporations area). It's pretty good reading and not quite as controversial as the religion threads (facts are readily verifiable for the most part).

I have been on the high-pressure busisness end of Amway enthusiasts, Shaklee pushers, and one of those phone card companies. Aside from my feelings that these things are scams, EVERYONE has to be considered a customer! Dealing with these folks is like having a telemarketer right in your own home!

What are the details of the pyramids at GGWO? This is one area that GGWO definitely does not have a monopoly on. I have been to a church a few years back that published a directory of all businesses within the church and actively instructed members to only go to businesses owned by members. Strange stuff.

Boss Martian

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

I've sat through Amway spiels three or four times. I think it's a religious sect that appeals to believers' lower nature. Wouldn't you like to have a nice new Cadillac and be able to go on very expensive vacations? Just think how much money you could give to God if you had so much more to work with. Just sell all these wonderful products to every living soul you know. Base all your relationships on what you can sell, and on those who sell with you and can teach you to do it better. My brother tried this stuff. He basically lost his life to it for a while and spent probably more than he ever made on books, tapes, conferences, etc. There's a large contingent of these Amway folks in my church. These ones haven't been pushy with me, but there's this sense that they're a block that will function in response to their corporate guru. I love you. Would you like to try some of this new shampoo?

[Anonymous (63.27.76.252)]

Well, despite what people are saying Kathy Lutz has gone through; she still made a corporate killing utilizing, and misusing I might add, her position as the head of "home base's women's ministry" for her multi-level marketing scheme of that Arbonne crap!

Poor Kathy's mourning in a brand new Mercedes Benz with free trips to the Carribean... boo-hoo!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Delaware has stupid pyramid schemes. Ecoquest, pulse, amway, healing bowls, building funds.

[Arguendo (64.12.117.20)]

healing bowls?

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

dont forget the spin off of amway, quixtar

[Arguendo (64.12.117.20)]

healing bowls?

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

Quixtar? Sounds like a high tech way to get undesirables out of town.

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

Shouldn't it be called 'bowl repair' ? Healing bowls sounds like New Age. This is the dawning of the bowl of Aquarius...

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

Anyone remember Meadowfresh? A dried milk product. Came in vanilla and chocolate.

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

Ooooh. That sounds like something that's supposed to be healthy and tastes awful.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

exactly! Did we succeed in selling some to you?

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

No, but maybe to Mary. By the way Lee, we're off in a couple of hours to a weekend conference with Rick Joyner, the prophetic type guy that heads up Morningstar Ministries. The times we've been 'prophesied over' as a family or couple have been pretty accurate, but there are some spiritual hindrances between us. I'd appreciate some prayer over this. Maybe if this guy prays over us and really nails it specifically enough, something could break. I've alluded to our situation a bit. I feel that my walk in the Spirit is not adequately trusted 'in the ranks' so to speak. I don't approve of her pastor; and it's he and others from his church that we're going with. Life sure is interesting. The Lord has given me strong spiritual relationships elsewhere. I'm not into trying to 'direct' my family's spiritual relationships or getting them to perform; but there seems to be an ongoing attempt to spiritually manipulate them, and they wouldn't hear of me raising the issue without minor atomic explosions.

Why is it that sometimes when one spouse is really hooked into walking with God and the other is nominal, and then the less interested one suddenly gets all interested spiritually; that the walks of the two seem to conflict? I just don't get it. I've been a serious intercessor for years. Well, anyway...please pray.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

You got it.....I've enjoyed the times Rick Joyner has been here in Boston. He hasn't been around in a few years. A few years back, the pastors and 'spiritual' people brought in a lot of the prophetic types. It stirred up quite a few people to make their own pronouncements of what would happen here......we're still waiting.

We had great all church prayer mtgs. Some still go on, but as usual, at least in my opinion, those with a greater ego, or more charisma, or more competitiveness tried to rise to the top and that manipulation you speak of was evident.

It seemed to me that many got into the rush t build the biggest church, have more gifts etc. I'm not aware of anyone of them succeeding. Then the Vineyard came along, had a few quiet years, some difficulty with the team dynamics, and burst on to the scene with a growing, thriving church in a most difficult area.....

Have you heard of John Paul Jackson? He's another of the prophetic types. He's planting a church in Framingham. Framingham has long been thought to be the place where things could happen spiritually.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

One thing I liked about the churches opening up and praying together or sharing a vision and work load was to get to know other believers, and then to discover what gifts they are! Years and years were spent, believing that TBS ws the only group tht understood the word, or missions, sacrafice, discipleship etc. It was good for me to repent from my wayward thinking and receive them. They are some of my most trusted friends now.

Then again, there are some that I stay clear of!

It's been a wonderful growing experience to get off the hobby horse and ride with the humble.

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

No. I haven't heard of John Paul Jackson. I read one of Joyner's books and liked it.

I really believe that what's on the verge of happening out here is a move of the Spirit that's not built around pastors or particular churches or denominations. I think the churches and pastors can be caught up in it too, if they humbly submit to the Spirit and allow him to reign in place of their programs and preconceived agendas. The line of authority thing seems to be a real hindrance. For some it's the difficulty of having any human authority. For others it's manipulation in God's name. There's a healthy balance between somewhere; but you hear lots of voices quick to judge if you don't look the part.

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

Though I continue to attend an Assemblies of God church; I actually feel more spiritually comfortable in the gatherings we have between the churches where there is not a single leader presiding over everything or an organization to answer to. Several TBS/GGWO people are part of these gatherings. Some also go to churches in the area and some don't. But I think there is a strong degree of acountability between many of us who are there. I know there is for me. Things outside the church 'umbrellas' usually seem to be frowned on from many directions, but they can be spiritually vital and a safe harbor for those who've been wounded and abused. You might receive better care at the Inn than at the Synagogue.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

I think you're right, there is a move of God in your area.

We've found that the 'real' church, the 'real' fellowship and the 'real' accountability is within the group that is not in the church. We are more truthful.....or I should say, we are held to the truth by those 'outside'. Yet we still attend a church regularly. It's been an adventure to discover the 'body' scatterered all over the place. I feel connected with so many, yet the church experience feels awkward because I always feel as though I'm just part of the herd.....a big fat cow being pushed into a box that doesn't fit and no personal attention given as to who I really am and how I can be used more effectively. I have to beleive I have something to add to the kingdom.....otherwise, I'd shrivel and die. It could be that I'm not willing to be in the black & white world anymore. God's given me color......

I can complain a lot about church huh? I haven't even started! I don't like to talk too much about it because I believe firmly, that we must stay in fellwoship and be accountable. The church we go to is really healthy......that in itself is stimulating. New believers are a delight! We have lots of them. To think, parents send their children off to college, hoping and expecting them to get a good education and so many have found God! There was even an article in the Sunday Globe about the revival at MIT! We have MANY of those in our church.

I wonder sometimes, if those of us that experienced TBS/GGWO have a certain need for others that had similar experiences. Some of our firneds are from the Local Church. It is a Witness Lee church.....I think he wa a disciple of Watchman Nee. Now that is another corrupt org! It's so easy to be with them.....they never play church or put on airs.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

I don't want anyone, especially those that are thinking of exiting GGWO to think negatively about the church. There really is true and wonderful fellowship, teaching, opportunities for service elsewhere. It truely is MUCH better for us since leaving, but it does take faith. It means you really have to take responsibility for your walk with God and not leave it up to the authority figure in your life. You have to grow up and get a stronger relationship with God and others. You will have to grow and you will come out knowing much more, what you actually believe. You will see more clearly what needs to change and what is wrong with your belief system. It sadden me time and time again to realize how much faulty thinking I bought and lived in as a result of turning my life over to TBS and the system there. All that had to change. If I say so myself.......I think God is real happy with me for saying yes to Him and no to TBS. It gives me confidence and strength.

It's been wonderful to discover the teasures God has for me right here on earth.

I hope readers here will not label us dissenters as renegade rebels.......I know many, and they are far from that. I see us as valuable members of Christs body who have a lot to share, to give and to receive. So many, to me are clear cut gems. Remarkable and capable people.

I also think that those that are stuck in groups like GG are dull, unthinking, confused, conflicted and entirely unusable to God. Your blindness is as obvious as real physical blindness and it brings pain to my heart......I want so much more for you.

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

Lee, One of the greatest treasures I've found since I left is Karen. Her honesty and openess and desire to think through the tough stuff is such a joy. And to think that without this message board she'd just be a vague memory from the past with whom I never spiritually connected. She sees things other people don't dare to notice. She's not taking shortcuts.

[Bob Brinton (70.17.128.228)]

I've gotta go. I'll be back sometime Sunday night or Monday morning. Cheers.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

Your'e right about Karen......if we hadn't left, she and Greg would have been past aquaintances fading into the past for us as well. We have enjoyed many many hours of 'wrestling' with them. I think she is one of the most courageous individuals I know. And not to contradict Nic, who thinks she's sweet, Karen is the one that asks tough questions and will not let go! She challenges our faith all the time and we are sharpened and quickened because of it. Our times with them are always ALIVE. And, I'll say, those kinds of stimulating conversations about God and his word and will and ways simply didn't and couldn't take place in TBS. Wow, what we were missing!

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

It is amazing for all the talk of "the body" how little we really connected. How subtle the teachings were concerning "close relationships." Carl did not want us close, he wanted to be the center of all our lives. Now that is a real "soul power" relationship. It was ALL ABOUT him, he made sure it STAYED all about him, built a whole kingdom around that theme. The biggest loosers in his kingdom were the women. Delegated to the lowest rungs of the kingdom. When he raised a woman only because it was necessary to have a women head the "women's ministry," he made sure to keep them out of his limelight. How many remember the dozens and dozens of time he would mock Linda Canino from the pulpit and talk derogatory about her in private raps. And recent grand inquisition of Kathy Lutz, without the bibical right of her being present, is another example of how far down the totem pole women were in GG.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

Yeah, and how about women that knew they should be stay at home moms???? I struggled with trying to balance the ministry and the rearing of the kids......my boys could have had so much more. I grew to really respect Marcie Stevens because she made it possible for her boys to play sports.....I wasn't so bold and at the time, didn't want to venture out and find teams for them to be on. I do regret that......my boys still love me though!

I'm far more interesting to Jack as a free independent woman than I ever was as a meek submissive dweeb. I like me better too.

I also think its biblical to know who you are, what you want and where you are going......too often we say things like I'll put it in God's hands, I'll let God decide. I'll let God be the judge.......He wants us to get engaged with him and make decisions. We are the ones that have to learn to walk. I don't think its obedience when we put it all on God. Thats passive and ignorant.

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

just a reminder about factnet taken from their home page..............

Independent individuals, organizations, or authors contributing documents to F.A.C.T.Net's research libraries may be exercising their constitutional rights of petition, free speech, participation in government, or freedom of religion in researching, evaluating and freely discussing any matter. These discussions or statements may be the constitutionally protected opinions, allegations, satire, fiction, or religious beliefs or religious opinions of these independent individuals, organizations, or authors and, as such, MAY OR MAY NOT BE FACTUAL

[Anonymous (67.243.241.1)]

As frightened as you are Anon 68.82.183,
inside your heart is the nagging voice of the Holy Spirit reminding you that very much of what you read on GG/Factnet IS FACTUAL !
(and you can't stop something God started!)
Halleilujah !
lol

[Anonymous (151.203.157.69)]

.

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

pyraminds ! idolatry