How to move on [Archive]

Cara (205.188.117.20)

07-12-2004, 03:09 PM

Dear 198,

I think a huge step for me was "untwisting" the twisted scriptures. To accomplish that I studied abusive and cultic churches. It was then I began to see my own misconcepts of God/God's will/God's leading. I could see I had been manipulated by scripture twisting in GG, I could see how I silented the still, small voice and circumvented my own walk. I studied and gained back my ability to think critically, rationally and logically. I read everything I could on the subject. I would recommend this book, it has helped a lot of us that have recently exited GG. "Twisted Scriptures" by Mary Alice Chrnalogar.

The interesting thing that happens when you begin to sort God from man and GG. You realize that you were hearing God's voice. God brings back to memory time and time again that He present and speaking but we had stopped listening. During this process of understanding you can recover "assurance" in Him. It is a beginning of a different walk. It is much more personal, you begin to hear God' voice specifically for you. It is not an outward thing of a geographical will or are you in the right church, in the right place. That will come.. but is more important to the Lord that you just start listening. You begin to sense His graciousness in a much more real way. You begin to trust Him and trust yourself and give yourself grace.

There is a process of healing that occurs after being in an abusive church. Don't worry about doing or going. Those decisions will come as you gain back confidence to hear His voice for you. If I can share anything with you it is be patient with yourself. It is remarkable how really gracious and patient our God is and how unique each individual believer is and how intimate and kind our God is with our uniqueness. God Bless dear friend.. Our Lord wants you back, fully His.. and there no safer place to be than back in His care.

If I can assist in any way please email me..
ancara60@yahoo.com

Jim Faucett (66.90.181.249)

07-12-2004, 03:10 PM

See, there's lots of help!

Anonymous (69.242.21.100)

07-12-2004, 03:15 PM

lets look to God for the help, lets not trust in man ,man will fail you , God will not.as christians we are like sheep and as for sheep they are part of a flock a sheep that doesnt connect seems like a lost sheep .. just a thought.. but be led by the Holy Spirit, he sets members in the body as it pleases him.

Jack & Chris Brown (141.157.86.112)

07-12-2004, 03:35 PM

198 and 216...

There are many of us here to help you in any way that we can. Chris and I have walked in your shoes. We are local and available. Please contact us; click on our name to the left for our e-mail address.

Jack & Chris Brown

Anonymous (68.34.67.195)

07-12-2004, 06:07 PM

I am another who can attest to the wonderful relationship with God that awaits you once you "untwist" all the false teaching you were under. As Cara said, take the time to understand the areas where you were misled and don't put a trip on yourself. Keep in mind that God gave you a mind to use and don't be afraid to use it. He wants the best for you and He wants to fellowship with you. so relax, spend time with God, read some good books on the subject, enjoy your friends (Christian and non-Christian), and know that life is about living and making the most of the life that God gave you. In time you will see that the Christian walk doesn't need to be so complicated and that church is just church (it is not your LIFE like many of us have been taught to believe). God wants you to be part of a fellowship of believers, but it doesn't have to be taken so seriously. You don't have to be part of a Saturday outreach to be holy. Love your neighbor, love your family and friends, smile at the kid in the supermarket checkout line. To paraphrase a pastor at a church I'm attending "before you pray for God to use you in all these amazing ways, go spend some time with Him over at the kitchen sink with your wife." Just live your life before God and He will guide you (not the church). Just some thoughts. AJL

Anonymous (67.249.224.53)

07-12-2004, 06:18 PM

To the person who started this post:

You are not alone in your feelings...I too am feeling rather disillusioned with the "whole church scene." Thanks for bringing up this important issue and please pray for me to let go of my bitterness regarding this hurt experienced!

I simply do not trust myself to hear God's voice at this time do to so many unanswered prayers.

muskyrose (64.12.117.20)

07-12-2004, 06:58 PM

Anon 198.81 You have many here who are willing to help you. They have wise words. You mentioned about finding the "perfect will of God" or being in the "will of God" I ask that you consider the following which I will relate in a story...

Years ago when we left tbs, my husband and I searched and searched for a new church. Finally we settled on a small, quiet, little out of the way church, with solid teaching, good preaching, but really awful music. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif (hey can't have everything) In one of our adult Sunday School classes we began a series called "finding the will of God" This particular week our Pastor asked us to think of a round target with all the colors white, yellow, blue and of course the center red. He then asked how many wanted to be in the perfect will of God.

Everyone raised their hands. Holding up a large target he pointed to the small red dot in the center and said, "This represents God's perfect will. How many of us can hit the mark time and time again? How many of us fail and maybe hit some where else on the target? Maybe a bit closer, maybe a bit further but still on the target. No one gets a 100% bullseye everytime. But they still get credit for hitting the mark.

That's the way it is with God's will. As long as your hitting the target you IN God's will. As long as your goal is to eventually hit the bullseye (perfect will) then it doesn't matter where you go to church, or how you pray, or whatever. What does matter is you are in God's will because your hitting the target."

When I heard it explained to me like that I stopped worrying about whether or not I was in "the will of God" and I began to just let go. I actually began to enjoy who God was in me. I let go of all the legalistic garbage that had built up and my aim improved. Now I just have fun hitting the target.

I may not have hit that bullseye yet but at least I no longer miss the target. But then again, that's just me.

>>>>>>>>>>--------Bonnie

Jessica Patton (66.30.49.45)

07-12-2004, 07:10 PM

This is a very important thread topic- maybe the most important because there are many who have left gg/tbs who have lost faith in not just church assemblies but in Christ as well.

My heart aches for them! I feel righteous indignation towards Stevens and the lot who hurt and betrayed true seekers of God!!

I went right away to another local church. Over the last 10 years, I had met, through my homeschool support group, other Christians from many different churches that had Godly families and the women loved the Lord. I always gleaned much from them but, of course, thought to myself that it was too bad they didn't have the "deep teaching" and "true Body life" I got at gg!
So when I left the ministry, I KNEW that I had lived in TOTAL judgement towards people from other churches and had to ask God every day to deliver me in this area!!... Sure enough, there ARE awesome, sweet churches out there- not the intensity and maybe not the excitement we knew before but who needs THAT when you can have REAL and REGULAR!

I also did not want the leaving of gg to be a stumbling block to my children in THEIR walk with God. So we dove in (me in fear and trembling at first) and it turns out the water is fine....

He has brought us into a broad place, a new season in our Christian walk. You who are leaving, or have left gg/tbs need to remember that God is YOUR God and Jesus is YOUR Jesus. The cult-y teaching communicated to all of us that our spiritual well-being is completely tied into the ONE pastor and the ONE assembly ("the calling"). I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is UNTRUE (and I am not "decieved"!).

Anonymous (198.81.26.106)

07-12-2004, 07:11 PM

Wow. Good input. Thanks. This whole factnet thing has really brought into light for me - a whole lot of things that were "looming in the darkness". Things I just didn't feel right about.

I will get a few books...and work with God on the details.

I have ALWAYS felt that MY primary calling has been to my family. First and foremost. And Secondly, I have felt that my second calling is to "love" people right where they are at. I think it is perhaps a gift that God has given me. To be sensitive to what is going on with people - and to be a friend.

My favorite part of the bible is when Jesus is in the upper room with his disciples and he says, "By THIS all men will know that you are my disciples, when you have love for one another." He didn't say "when you know the bible inside and out" or when "you knock on doors".......LOVE THAT!
and this is one of his last interactions with his disciples...this must have been pretty important to him.

And the "unanswered pray" thing....67.249.224.53..I'm with you there. I know God is on the throne - I just would like to see his hand a little more visably in my life right now. (lol)

So here's another question. My teenage son is VERY ANGRY with God - and part of it - is how he has been treated by "christians". He doesn't want to go to church ANYWHERE and he hates God.

I know I need to pray - but should I continue to "force" him to visit churches with me? I've been very careful to let him have his feelings. In my mind - he needs to come with me - one never knows when the Holy Spirit will penetrate his heart.

"searching"

Jessica Patton (66.30.49.45)

07-12-2004, 07:27 PM

searching-
My teenage son told me the other day that some of the people with the least integrity he has known are the Christians he has known all these years at gg/tbs!
But he is meeting some kind and sincere Christians now and he is not bitter.
Remember, you as your son's parent have had a testimony of love and devotion towards him that is the most impacting Christian influence on his life (even if he doesn't express that to you now).
Pray that your son will have contact with Young Life in his local high school or through some friends. It is one of the Lord's amazing tools for such a time as this in our country and as an outreach to even alienated Christian youth.

Jack Brown (141.157.91.108)

07-12-2004, 07:28 PM

198...

I noted in your original post that you didn't say what church you left in search for a new one. Have you left GGWO or another? I ask because our desire is to help (regardless of where you attended), not bash GGWO on the assumption you left there.

Jack

Roberta (141.154.144.33)

07-12-2004, 07:43 PM

I don't think anyone who is angry should be forced to go anywhere, but that is one person's opinion.

My husband has said he will never set foot in, participate in or have anything to do with any kind of organized religion again. He said this when we left GGWO 15 years ago and he has been adamant about it. At first his reaction was anger, bitterness and pain. Now, he has worked through all of that,but still chooses not to listen to anyone preach the Word. He contends there is too much of man in the mix when it comes to understanding God in an organizational fashion. That is where he stands, he loves God, studies and prays everyday...enjoys his life and his walk with God very much.

Please don't take this opportunity to tell me he is off, wrong, forsaking the assembling...I know thew arguments and can likely spout them as well as anyone. I respect my husband's decicion, respect his walk with God and trust God to finish the good work He began...in His time, in His way.

We, unlike Bonnie did not jump right into another church. It was too painful to even contemplate. I did resume my studies after awhile, but the depression hung on and hung on. It cleared, the issues became understood one by one and we are at a good plcae spiritually now.

I really think that if I had forced the issue of going right into another church setting, Scott would have divorced me. He was very volitile and it must have been God Himself who made me keep still and let Scott work out his own problems. I stood by him then and still do, he's asked only that I not push, so I never have. I think there may come a time when he will open himself up, but that will be up to him and God. I shall never interfere. Scott is a well read, intelligent bible scholar in his own right. He loves God and wants to serve him. He works 24/7 being a true Jonathan to a parapalegic man we work for...he's dedicated himself to giving this man every good thing life can allow. I see in his love for this man, a love for God in action, and I believe God sees it too.

Each man and woman has a path clearly marked, and individually prepared by God. The thing is to stay quiet enough in His presence to be led. Sometimes it seems to take a long time, for others not so long. But until you are hearing the Holy Spirit really speak to your heart, staying quiet and waiting upon the Lord is a good place to be.

Sorry to be so long winded.

muskyrose (64.12.117.20)

07-12-2004, 08:27 PM

Dear Searching, I've worked with Children and teenagers for many many years, I've been a teacher, a counselor, Mom, friend. One thing I have learned is this. Teens are at a point where they are also searching. They watch carefully the many things adults do and don't do. They can spot a phoney a mile away and know when someone is a fake. They are trying to define who they are taking into account all that you, as a parent have been and still are teaching them. But at the same time they want to break away. If you force your teenager to attend church with you it may cause more harm than good. He is hurt. He is angry. That is going to take time to heal because all he has see are lies and so in his mind ALL Christians are alike. You are the one who will have to show him differently. By forcing him is that showing him differently? As long as you keep those doors of communication open, as long as you don't allow him to fall into a world of drugs, alcohol, and all the other stuff that would harm him. you have a chance. You said it best when you said "one never knows when the Holy Spirit will penetrate his heart" You keep him in your prayers. Trust God to be faithful. It will be through your prayers that he will come around but not if you are going to force him.

>>>>>>>>>---------Bonnie

Anonymous (198.81.26.106)

07-12-2004, 11:43 PM

We moved geographically away from GGWO because of work....And I am just now leaving it - in my heart. As I said - there were things that didn't sit right - now I know why. We have MANY friends still in the church (thus the anon. post)- I believe I would be marked and outcasted if any of them knew I posted here.

Roberta - I can't imagine anyone telling you your husband is off - THEY would be off telling you that. That is the "control church" mentality. This is what I don't miss. People being God for me. We all stand and fall before God as INDIVIDUALS.

The best thing anyone in the ministry ever told me was, "I trust your walk with God"...regarding how I was handling something. This was a woman in leadership - who has recently left the church also.

Jessica, I am going to pray that he comes in contact with Young Life. I so want him to have fellowship in a way that he can relate and on his terms. I am lucky that he talks to me - that we are close. It's just hard for me to see HIM struggle with God! He has seen my walk with God -and though I'm sure he's seen my faults - I know for sure he's seen my faith.

I will pray for my son, talk to God about it, and take to my son about it also. I just want to do what's best.

Thanks for all the input. I'm just thankful that God is on the throne. (and I'm Not) :0)

"searching"

Anonymous (216.183.184.253)

07-12-2004, 11:44 PM

I was very interested in this thread. I too have left GGWO and am having a hard time finding a church. My husband and I have attended church since we left but just haven't found it in us to stay. It got to be that we would just go once a month to do nursery because we knew they needed help. It's so hard to figure out what church is all about now. I do try to live my life in a Godly manner everyday in everything I do. I see God in the smallest things and I purpose to go the extra mile in everything I do for His sake.

I (or we) seem to be making it although I do feel spiritually weak at times and I do have very brief panic attacks about what life is all about and then I remember to trust.

One thing I feel uneasy about is the spiritual health of my children. Our kids are very sweet kids...it's hard to believe that a teenager can be sweet but it's true...and then there's my middle school child and also my youngest who is very young. Ultimately we're responsible for their spiritual guidance...it leaves my in a very scary spot. We talk about God and the two older ones do have a relationship with God..but I don't want them to forget about God when they get older because I haven't been consistent with my church attendance. I know that we need time to heal but I FEEL as though I really don't ever want to go again.

I do want to mention that the church we attended was fine. The pastor seems to be a very Godly man. We attended regularily until the worship team changed and I started to not like worship anymore. Also, in those years that we did attend we never made any connections. I know that that ultimately is our fault but when you come from GGWO where you know everyone and go to a church where you know no one...it's very tough.

I guess I just needed to vent. I think I know the answer to my dilema -- just do it --

Jessica Patton (66.30.49.45)

07-12-2004, 11:51 PM

I really like what you said, Bonnie. Hypocrisy irks kids big time. I think my teenagers have appreciated the stand I took in leaving gg. We have talked alot about the Factnet revelations and the frauds in gg leadership. But if I distrust all of Christianity they will probably do the same. So I continue to orient myself, and my family, towards faith in Christ, His Word and church, thus making a distinction before them (as best I can) between fraudulent Christianity and the real thing.

Anonymous (69.242.21.100)

07-12-2004, 11:57 PM

one good way to find peace is to take our eyes off ''ourselves'' , we seem to be caught up in our own hurts ,it is a great idea to help others that are lost that never heard the gospel , that never been saved , in need of healing etc.

Jessica Patton (66.30.49.45)

07-13-2004, 12:05 AM

Anon 216-
I can TOTALLY relate to your experience of not knowing anyone at the church you went to after gg! It takes being in a gg church to really grasp what we LOST in leaving- connection (like a family), raising young ones at the same time, sharing the intensity of the whole thing together. Then it's GONE!

Of course, we are thankful to have the false teaching, etc GONE. But there is loss of the relationships and sense of community that has left me sad and lonely at times.

Have you read any of Rick Warren's Books? The Purpose Driven Church outlines a church model that apparently really WORKS to help Christians grow and addresses these kinds of "felt needs".
I know there are a whole slew of churches implementing this and we are attending one though we haven't yet joined what they call a small group which is the key aspect of Rick Warren's program. I look forward to it however.

Anonymous (67.243.139.65)

07-13-2004, 01:20 AM

Hope Rick Warren doesn't endorse "shepherding"; otherwise it's the "frying pan to the fire" so to speak...though I admire your courage to get involved in another church after your GGWO experience. I've yet to feel comfortable getting "too close" within a church setting.

Anonymous (68.34.67.195)

07-13-2004, 04:31 AM

I was also thinking about what has helped me so much in the process of moving beyond GGWO and it has been going through the process with a few other people. Relating to people on Factnet has helped, but also having relationships with others who are facing the same challenges as you. Many of us feel so alone in this process, so if there is any chance to reach out to someone don't be shy. If you aren't familiar with the people who have given their names on this board, do you know others who you have heard that left? Give them a call, see if you can talk. I have been going this process with about six other people and the support and encouragement has been so great. Sometimes we just need to cry, but for the most part, we have been enjoying our "freedom" and establishing an even greater understanding of being free in Christ. Though some days are hard, life in general is very good. Over the weekend, two different people told me how healing it was to finally talk to someone about all the things they believe the Holy Spirit is showing them. Many are still afraid to express it "out loud" but we have to unravel so much garbage that has been twisted and set in our minds. We need to talk! So I encourage you not to be shy and seek out the others who have left and let the dialogue begin.

Cara (64.12.117.20)

07-13-2004, 04:38 AM

68.34, excellent advice! There is such a feeling of returning from "Alice in Wonderland" once leaving Gg. Everything was backwards and there is a great feeling of disconnect. Sharing your feelings with other going through the same porcess or ahead of you in the process is an important part of healing. It is not just a church you are leaving, it is a life. It is a life-changing experience, similiar to a death of a loved one. It is not journey to travel alone!

Just Thinking (4.245.86.139)

07-13-2004, 04:52 AM

to 67.243.139.65 on July 12 at 8:20pm
I highly recommend Rick Warren's book the Purpose Driven Life it is a great read. This will help you refocus on the basic truths of what it means to be a believer. It is a very easy read. You read a chapter a day for forty days. There may a church in your area that is offering a forty days of purpose campaign. This would be a great way for you to meet in a home (non-church setting) and enjoy bible study and find some new friends. If you are not ready for that then read the book with your husband, together as a couple (two or more). Then, sing a hymn and pray. The Holy Spirit will be right there with you. You will be blessed. Take it slow and relearn the basics. Here are his five major points. (My own Paraphrase)
We are put on earth for a specific purpose. (Each purpose is equally important and not sequential)
1. Worship that is focused on God
2. Evangelism that shares the Good News
3. Discipelship that grows in the Word and obedience
4. Fellowship a community of believers that care for one another
5. Ministry serving others and the community in the way that God has gifted you. You are unique!
A healthy church will focus intentionally on these five purposes. A healthy believer will focus on these five purposes. Rick Warren is an encourager. He is a church health advocate. He believes in small group 10-15 people accountability to help members mature and be everything God created them to be , i.e. Ephesians 2:10 we are His workmanship.
Remember, God has a special purpose and plan for your life. He knows you are discouraged and wary of church. He won't quit on you.
For Him,
Dave Drago

Jim Faucett (66.90.181.249)

07-13-2004, 07:45 AM

Good advice, Dave. And there are three marks that indicate that a church exists:
1. The gospel is faithfully preached.
2. The sacraments/ordinances are rightly administered.
3. Church discipline is practiced.

Bob Brinton (151.203.153.114)

07-13-2004, 09:46 AM

What has worked for me is strong personal relationships with a few people and a lot of prayer. I attend a local church, but my real connection is not with the system or the pastor of the church. I have found that if I get too close to pastors, the tendencies toward spiritual abuse raise their heads. I respect the pastor's 'position', but don't find that he is the definer of my own place of service. I think it's important to serve individuals rather than the church or denomination. At the same time, I am called to strongly support others who are leaders and who have great influence on many people.

The Lord has a unique way for each of us. He has never given up on us; and we shouldn't give up on others. If we seek to focus on Him and serving others in the ways He gives us, then He will form us into what He wants. There's a saying that a long journey begins with the first step. Sometimes the people that you are meant to connect with are not apparent right away. That's one thing that's good about staying in one church for long enough to get to know people there. One of my own strongest connections is with someone who came out of Greater Grace at the same time and place that I did; and I think we've helped each other. I actually have more of a sense of family with those I am close to now than I did within TBS/GGWO; because my relationships are built around Christ and who we each really are, and not around one doctrinal line. In the old system, I hid who I really was. If I had expressed it, I would have been viciously attacked. So the 'family' thing there was artificial. There was real love; but it was dangerous to be too honest. Now, I can tell the truth and be loved; even in disagreement. Love, Bob

Roberta (141.154.144.33)

07-13-2004, 09:58 AM

What about the walking wounded How do they move on? The kids who were sexually assalted by pastors and people in authority, who are too afraid to speak still after decades have passed? What about the women used by the pastorate and thrown aside for the next woman that arrives on the scene...no one believes her, she is shunned and cannot "move on"?

What about the kids who were privy to other abuses, who saw men they admired tear down another's ministry with lies? What about former students who wonder to this day why the hell someone who knew better only made sure his own butt got covered when they left in the exodus to Baltimore, and didn't think at all about the people he could have helped. And appears not to really care even now.

What about the silent casualties of this war of self serving doctrines and heinous abuses? What about the super submissive wives cowering behind learned fear of the husband who must be obeyed?

The people in this horrendous cult that have done these things are MEN. Men who refuse to acknowledge the truth. Some of the men are still there, some are not. Chet Farmer was my friend. I loved hime dearly. When he discovered that Scott and I had left GGWO, he spoke with me on the phone. His first word were "I am so sorry for the part I played in decieving you at TBS." I said that he had been decieved as well and he said...and I'll never forget it...that he knew so much of the wrong going on there and that he kept silent like all the other pastors did. He named pastors who abused kids, he talked of the lies about the money...he confessed his own sins as a friend. Never in all my life have I known a man with so much integrity, and I doubt I will know many others. His transparent heart and confession set me free to stop blaming God.

So, tell me ladies and gentlemen...where are the others? Many other pastors have left, but I don't hear many apologies. Oh I have heard confessions and excuses, but few true apologies.

Perhaps the silence from men who should be raising their voices for the sake of the innocent is what hinders many from healing. Who will stand in the gap? Who will get the courage to stand and say "Enough"? Which man will say what he knows and expose the lies? Many there are....few do we hear.

This also is sin...to sit back and nurse your own wounds while many who once looked at you with admiration still bleed after all these years. You could boldly help, but you don't.

Who will it be, men of God? Who will take God's heart of justice and sacrifice their reputation and family still connected to GGWO, who will stand for the wounded and the fresh new innocent lives that you know will be violated spiritually and perhaps physically?

You say the fight is God's? You're damned right it is and whose side are you on? We need God's hand, YOU take up his battle and be his able fingers. Be God's man now for once in your life.

Rail at me, I don't care. I am a woman whom you have deemed unfit for service to this patriarchal system... so be it. Then you men step up to the plate, bring a bat. If this is a spiritual battle, swing that bat and send the ball out of the park. Help us heal, for God's sake and your own.

Kids are being hurt, women are being battered, people are being spiritually raped as you read this. YOU are responsible for many many lives you helped to ruin...they need you. This is no time to be spiritually impotent, gentlemen.

I challenge you to take up God's banner before more people fall away and are lost. Or don't you care anymore? Women have been sniped at and harrassed on this board for being strong. This board has been maintained and kept going by a core of women. Its time for the men to step up and do what is right.

Will you wait until another kid is hurt, andother foul false doctrine is ingrained in someone's head?

Be God's right hand. Give us a chance to admire you once more. I dare you in God's name.

Bob Brinton (151.203.153.114)

07-13-2004, 10:55 AM

One thing that would be of some help is if pastors (with their names) would explain their positions on different things they believe were mistaught at TBS/GGWO; if different pastors would discuss these things together on threads set up for that purpose. We all have a lot of unlearning to do. Also, sharing what they know of what happened would be helpful. I don't know what the answers are for the people you mention, Roberta. It is overwhelming and heartbreaking to consider them. Thank you for that post. Love, Bob

Louise Connolly (151.121.50.1)

07-13-2004, 01:50 PM

I can only speak from my own experience about moving on after being in the cult. Find healthy people to talk to about it and stay away from substance abuse, such as, drugs and alcohol. The depth of how mind control affects people is intricate and very damaging. I think it would be a rare human who could recover from its affects without a lot of help from other people. I have had many good years walking with Jesus and living a blessed life then Factnet came along and this imbedded rage welled up and came out. I was thrilled to find a place to let out all the stuff I had stuck inside me concerinig the chief charlatan, Carl Stevens, and his clones. There is life after TBS/GGWO. Jesus is still the redeemer and He will sustain you.

Anonymous (67.249.214.222)

07-13-2004, 02:53 PM

Dear Dave,

Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate the love of Christ toward me with your caring concerns and gentle suggestions. I will heed your advice and read the recommended book!

Sincerely,

67

Anonymous (216.37.223.31)

07-13-2004, 04:53 PM

216 do you have e-mail?

Anonymous (24.91.61.194)

07-13-2004, 06:15 PM

Louise,
"..find some healthy people to talk to..."
like Ann Maestranzi perhaps? No thanks!

Jim Faucett (66.90.181.249)

07-13-2004, 06:18 PM

There is not a better place in the world for the sick than in the hospital. (an analogy only, don't pick at it)

But if we are the body,
Why aren't His arms reaching?
Why aren't His hands healing?
Why aren't His words teaching?

(Casting Crowns)

This is supposed to happen in CHURCH, folks. If it doesn't it is our fault.

Anonymous (24.91.61.194)

07-13-2004, 06:32 PM

Try it Jim instead of posting your version of life at the TBS. I was in Berwick too.Your stories are cute but they are filled with your far out interpretations of the events. Stick to the facts.

Jim Faucett (66.90.181.249)

07-13-2004, 06:33 PM

OK, and yours are...

Anonymous (24.91.61.194)

07-13-2004, 06:42 PM

We were very young christians. Most of us came from non-christian homes. We were excited about Jesus. Our ministry was very young in many ways.
I can't find it in myself to think evil of anyone's motives. We were doing the best we knew how to win souls to Christ. We are still doing that.
Have some compassion on those whose motives you have no way of knowing.

Jim Faucett (66.90.181.249)

07-13-2004, 07:18 PM

And now we have your version and mine. If I see fit to post something here, I will. You may do the same. If you have a problem with my views, doctrines, interpretations of events, "cuteness," "not sticking to the fact-ness," fine.

I don't think I intimated knowing motives, and I have had my own heart "read" by GGWO insiders on here more times than I care to count. My story is just that--mine. It was my experience interpreted by me. I think I have put in a good amount of study to interpret doctrine. That is also part of my story.

If you are still in GG then you are responsible for you. You are responsible for what you hear. Neither your humanity, mine, or Carl Stevens's should be used as an excuse.

By the way, I did stick to the facts as I saw them. I am not omnipresent, so can offer only what I perceived. Feel free to dispute them in particular--rather than just spouting off in a generally restrictive manner.

Anonymous (4.156.99.216)

07-13-2004, 08:43 PM

I am one who is moving on, like many others. I have physically changed locations and that has helped. God is giving me my life back, wonderful new friends and old friends in my new area. It is a process of healing that after many years at GG will take some time.

I was recently with a dear friend who has also left. It was Sunday and we were talking about church. My friend asked me if I had thought about what church really is....and the answer we came up with was, "Where 2 or 3 are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them." There we were together, laughing and crying in the presence of the Lord. It was unto Him, we were worshiping Him, and He was in our midst, laughing and weeping with us.

We were having church.

I will never give up this incredible, profound, newly discovered intimacy with Jesus Christ, NEVER AGAIN. I cannot see me in any organized religious structure, at least not now. What I am experiencing with Jesus is just too rich, too real, too good.

We all need to give ourselves time to rediscover what the Christian life is really meant to be, not GG's version of it. Each person's journey will be completely unique. If we can learn to hear the voice of the Spirit, then all the rest will fall into place.

Anonymous (69.242.21.100)

07-13-2004, 09:27 PM

the way to move on : FORGIVE
FORGIVE
"he that hates his brother walks in darkness and knows not where he goes because the darkness has blinded his eyes"

"forgive and you shall be forgiven"

Anonymous (24.91.61.194)

07-13-2004, 09:29 PM

Hey Jim, the name of this thread is "How to move on". Instead of posting everywhere why don't you JUST MOVE ON!

Who made you the "truth guru'?

Anonymous (205.188.117.20)

07-13-2004, 09:41 PM

And who made you the FactNet bouncer, 24?

Why don't YOU just move on? At least Jim's posts are interesting and have substance, yours are basically just criticisms

Anonymous (216.183.184.253)

07-13-2004, 09:56 PM

I know forgiveness is vital. If you don't forgive you turn yourself into a miserable, bitter person but to me it still isn't easy. I do read with great care most of what is written on this thread. It's comforting in a way to see names of people I have seen or talked to in years. It reinforces to me that there were many great people in GG who got douped. It's good to see them coming around (myself included.)

Jim Faucett, you're a great guy and have been been strenght for me and my family.

Izziesoul (209.6.151.215)

07-13-2004, 10:00 PM

Just Thinking Dave: I have that book by Rick Warren. Many people in my family have read it and passed it on. My cousin Eric (who is a Christian) has left his job as a police officer and enrolled in a college in Bangor,ME to pursue a pastoral calling because of that book.
Rick Warren spoke at Congress 2004 here in Boston.
I couldn't go because of work, but Eric and Beth said he was awesome.
Pastor Jim, I will be getting back to you and thank you for your heart. Izzie

Anonymous (67.23.200.67)

07-14-2004, 01:33 AM

Jim - keep up the good work and keep on posting. I was also in South Berwick and found your observations to be right on target.

Anonymous (198.81.26.106)

07-14-2004, 01:38 AM

Maybe I'm going to step out of line - and probably get trashed in the midst of it....but to the person who said "forgive".........

I have one thing to say. It is a process. Healing is. And it is the "christian's" (control) way - to push people to a place that they are not yet at.

I have not trashed the ministry - nor people - my starting this thread was a heartfelt cry - as to...."how to move on". We ALL KNOW the theological answers.

Jesus wept.

We have a right to our pain and to our tears. And of course at some point each of us will forgive in OUR time! (God's time)

I hate having "doctrine" thrown at me - that's why I left the church.

I will never forget a certain training I went through after leaving ggwo - when I realized that it was "OK" to still have "baggage" and to weep for things in my life. That all of that WASN'T healed the moment I got saved - but that it IS A PROCESS.

God loves us just where we are at. AND he know's where we came from.

I am so thankful for the freedom to be human before God.

"searching"

p.s. I've spent YEARS reaching out to others. It is a season of letting God reach out to me!

Louise Connolly (24.128.24.65)

07-14-2004, 04:41 AM

Dear Anonymous (24.91.61.194):

I was thinking more along the lines of Christian professionals not brainwashed chalatans, such as, Carl Stevens and his clones. Of course, when you are under the influence of mind control you would always have to think that a person can't think for themselves but would have to be influenced by someone who is a dear friend and nothing more. I am praying that you get free from the power of the mind control of TBS/GGWO but I realize it has been so many years for you that it may be next to impossible. I know you have strong sentimental ties to Carl Stevens. However, God truly is all powerful.

Jim Faucett (66.90.181.249)

07-14-2004, 07:13 AM

"Who made you the "truth guru'?"

Did you get elected Factnet sherriff while I wasn't looking?

I am of course waiting for you to elaborate on your comments.

muskyrose (205.188.117.20)

07-14-2004, 08:29 AM

Dear Searching, With these words "I am so thankful for the freedom to be human before God."

I don't think you will have to worry about NOT being in the will of God. Your heart, and spirit along with the words you have spoken reveals that you know Gods voice. You are doing what God wants for you. Continue on in the way He is leading you. Trust your relationship with him and he will certainly direct your path.

Isn't it wonderful that we can be human before God and to know that no matter what he still loves us? I find it so freeing to know that I no longer have to be bound to all those strict shoulds and shouldn'ts. I can just be me and know that I am loved, warts and all. (I don't have warts but you know what I mean) http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Searching, my prayers are with you in you time of regeneration and allowing God to reach out to you. May your life be filled with great joy and laughter and most of all love.
>>>>>>>>>>>-----Bonnie

Bob Brinton (141.154.179.167)

07-14-2004, 09:14 AM

Forgiveness is at least a goal, and something you can pray for the grace for. I believe it's possible to forgive the individual people involved without forgiving the spiritual forces behind it or the system used to dish out the various forms of abuse (or to cover them up). But another way of looking at it is that they (in most cases) haven't sought your forgiveness.

I forgive because I believe that's what the Lord wants of me. I don't want Him to have to pour out His wrath on people. I want them to walk with Him, and to allow Him to change them as He sees fit. I want Him to change me also, in whatever ways please Him. Bob

Anonymous (198.81.26.106)

07-14-2004, 12:29 PM

Thank you Bonnie for your "edifying" and kind words. Are you in Baltimore?

Bob - I am totally with you about forgiveness - but people have to get through the grief process first.

There are no "easy answers" nor are there quick formulas. When I see people write ...you need to just........................... (whatever) I think - this is a person who wants things to be cut and dry - THEY want people to just "get over it". If it were that simple, right? (I have futher thoughts on who these kind of people are, but will reserve those comments. :0)

"searching"

Louise Connolly (151.121.50.1)

07-14-2004, 01:01 PM

Jim Faucett:

In the words of Travis Bickle, "Are you talking to me?" If so, let me know what you mean because I don't see how it relates.

Anonymous (172.149.89.20)

07-14-2004, 05:10 PM

here's a really funny thing for you to address. I have decided to go anonymous because of misinterpretations.
Well here it is. I stopped going to church a year ago and have since been very ill almost to the point of death. I am not sure what I did wrong, still trying to figure it out. I made a decision to stop going because frankly there were few anointed messages and all I kept hearing was o pastor, o pastor this and pastor that, it really started to get to me. Where was Jesus? He said if He were high and lifted up, not pastor.

So now an opportunity has opened up to me due to an inheritance to move to another state and there is no local GG church there.

I prayed and prayed and then got peace to move.
Now I am plagued with thoughts and terrified to tell anyone. I am having nightmares and now am afraid if I leave I will get more sick and perhaps really die; not that death is bad but now I am wondering did I lose my salvation? will I go to hell? God, I am so confused.

Then I had a thought that perhaps God allowed my illness to get worse to cover and protect me so I would no longer be exposed to unannointed pointing to pastor rather than Christ messages.
Now I am thinking perhaps I am brainwashed and not sure what is truth and what is not.
I spoke to those who have left and those who are leaving and they are very, very Spirit filled Christians, we simply had pure fellowship, no talking about others, just lifting up Christ. This is true Christianity.
So why am I having nightmares? waking up screaming io the middle of the night? Is it because I really believe all that pastor stevens says about people who leave?

Please I am desperate for help. Spiritual guidance from the throne. I was told by a very Godly Bible school teaher who was in the ministry for years and years and made a choice to leave now to exercise my critical Biblical thinking skils.

But honestly when you have so much twisted doctrine what under Heaven do you do? and why the nightmares? Can anyone really help me?

You know what I am going to post under my real name because then I am sure I will get many right answers. If I post anonymously it won't really help me. And I know there are friends of mine here as well as GG board members who are reading this because you all have emailed me.

If you would rather email me regarding this my email is rejoicenmercy@aol.com

Maybe you can explain to me why I am off to recognize unanointed messages. And by posting under my real name I will be able to help myself with with the knowledge that I am really free from fear of men and fear of authority. God says I don't have to be afraid when I am reproached of man.

And since I have been ill for 13 years maybe I am just paranoid now because I feel like such a lost sheep, more lost than before I was saved and saved long before I found GG.

Who do I trust anymore? I know I can trust a very small handful of people, very small and I actually don't think any of them read this board but here goes, forgive my rambling and potpourri of words. I haven't slept for 3 days.

Nancy C (172.133.47.136)

07-14-2004, 05:32 PM

We are Christians, why can't we talk, just talk, why the fear factor? why can't I say what's on my mind and someone else just talk to me? Why are we so contentious? Why can't we just give what Christ would give? He talks to me, even when He corrects me He loves me. Why can't it be that way amongst His people? O God I am so confused.

Anonymous (69.242.21.100)

07-14-2004, 05:37 PM

God is not the author of confusion but of peace

Nancy C (172.133.47.136)

07-14-2004, 05:40 PM

thanks that was helpful and so edifying. sorry to be sarcastic but my cry is real and what you said is law to me right now and only condemns that I am confused.

Nancy C (172.133.47.136)

07-14-2004, 05:45 PM

And who I am confused by are the very people who are preaching to me. so what is that saying? 69242? Are you trying to help or show you are more Christian than me? why even post if it doesn't edify the hearer? thanks for your true Christian love. I needed that right now.

Anonymous (69.242.21.100)

07-14-2004, 05:46 PM

help

Nancy (172.133.47.136)

07-14-2004, 06:06 PM

how does that help? I am not confused by God. my relationship with Him is strong. What I am confused by is the next step. Will I die if I leave? am I brainwashed to believe that's true? Winters are extremely difficult for me and for me winter starts in September and ends in May. I am always freezing also when I sit in church.
So because of the location of my mother's home I thought this was God's way of releasing me from months of physical anguish due to cold? I can't go to church anyway because I am so ill and also for the reasons stated above for which I am sure now I will be marked. But I am honestly trying to find help. perhaps I should have posted anonymous, I fear I have done more harm now although that was not my intention.

Jim Faucett (66.90.181.249)

07-14-2004, 06:30 PM

Louise, Take it easy Travis, and put down that .45. I was talking to this person:

anonymous (24.91.61.194)
Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 04:29 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Jim, the name of this thread is "How to move on". Instead of posting everywhere why don't you JUST MOVE ON!

Who made you the "truth guru'?

Whoever it is apparently doesn't like what I've said, they just don't want to say why exactly.

Louise Connolly (151.121.50.1)

07-14-2004, 06:44 PM

Ooops, on my part.

muskyrose (205.188.117.20)

07-14-2004, 06:51 PM

Searching, I'm in the Berkshires in MA. If you want you can e-mail me. Just click on my name at the side and that is my e-mail addy.

>>>>>>>-------Bonnie

Anonymous (67.163.201.62)

07-14-2004, 10:56 PM

What Muskyrose !!!

You mean you havent left Lenox for Baltimore yet?

What about Gods "geographical will" for you in Baltimore ?

LOL, LOL, LOL

Anonymous (141.154.144.33)

07-14-2004, 11:21 PM

*giggle*

muskyrose (205.188.117.20)

07-14-2004, 11:33 PM

My compass broke and I never got it fixed!

my bad!!

Anonymous (141.154.144.33)

07-19-2004, 11:44 AM

Reposting...important to read

Cara (205.188.117.20)
Monday, July 12, 2004 - 10:09 am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear 198,

I think a huge step for me was "untwisting" the twisted scriptures. To accomplish that I studied abusive and cultic churches. It was then I began to see my own misconcepts of God/God's will/God's leading. I could see I had been manipulated by scripture twisting in GG, I could see how I silented the still, small voice and circumvented my own walk. I studied and gained back my ability to think critically, rationally and logically. I read everything I could on the subject. I would recommend this book, it has helped a lot of us that have recently exited GG. "Twisted Scriptures" by Mary Alice Chrnalogar.

The interesting thing that happens when you begin to sort God from man and GG. You realize that you were hearing God's voice. God brings back to memory time and time again that He present and speaking but we had stopped listening. During this process of understanding you can recover "assurance" in Him. It is a beginning of a different walk. It is much more personal, you begin to hear God' voice specifically for you. It is not an outward thing of a geographical will or are you in the right church, in the right place. That will come.. but is more important to the Lord that you just start listening. You begin to sense His graciousness in a much more real way. You begin to trust Him and trust yourself and give yourself grace.

There is a process of healing that occurs after being in an abusive church. Don't worry about doing or going. Those decisions will come as you gain back confidence to hear His voice for you. If I can share anything with you it is be patient with yourself. It is remarkable how really gracious and patient our God is and how unique each individual believer is and how intimate and kind our God is with our uniqueness. God Bless dear friend.. Our Lord wants you back, fully His.. and there no safer place to be than back in His care.

If I can assist in any way please email me..
ancara60@yahoo.com

Lori Argenzio (70.16.27.39)

07-19-2004, 03:51 PM

How to move on?

Nike says it best

"Just Do It"

RJ (141.154.144.33)

07-25-2004, 02:50 AM

Another aspect of moving on is to be aware that there are many other abusive so called men of God who talk of God and abuse their listeners. There are many who have been taught how best to manipulate people of good hearts by using a person'd best intentions and "believe the best' attitude against them.

Moving on becomes a balancing act...unlearning the mainupulations of the past while learning to be aware of the snake in the grass that lies ahead of you. The one that says they understand but just want to make you feel guilty, the other who calls you whiny and berates you for not being healed immediately or in the way they say you should be.

Moving on means learning the lessons, recognizing the abuser menatality from men who spout doctrine while they beat you and learning that God is bigger than their twisted concepts of Christianity.

Be careful to protect yourself from these men as you seek God's plan for you. No matter what these people that are so arrogant and loud say...your walk with God is YOUR walk with God. He is gracious and kind, loving and open to you...you will find Him again in the less noisy place. You will find him again in the kindness of a stranger, in the words of a song, in the arms of friends who require nothing of you... in a verse or poem you have never seen or heard before.

Pray, ask Him for guidance, give Him and Him only the control over your heart...doctrines can be false, men can be false, but God cannot be.

Blessings to you.

Anonymous (24.88.32.43)

07-25-2004, 08:42 PM

bump http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Anonymous (24.88.32.43)

07-25-2004, 09:13 PM

Keep on moving past the troll.

Anonymous (69.242.21.100)

07-25-2004, 09:16 PM

you're the trollgirl

Anonymous (68.82.183.197)

08-10-2004, 04:11 AM

do something Satan doesn't want you to do tonight....PRAY

Anonymous (205.188.117.20)

08-22-2004, 06:00 AM

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Two traveling angels stopped to spend the night
> > > > in the home of a wealthy family.
> > > >
> > > > The family was rude and refused to let the angels
> > > > stay in the mansion's guest room.
> > > >
> > > > Instead the angels were given a small space in
> > > > the cold basement.
> > > >
> > > > As they made their bed on the hard floor, the
> > > > older angel saw a hole in the wall and repaired
> > > > it.
> > > > When the younger angel asked why, the older angel
> > > > replied,
> > > > "Things aren't always what they seem."
> > > >
> > > > The next night the pair came to rest at the house
> > > > of a very poor, but very hospitable farmer and
> > > > his wife.
> > > >
> > > > After sharing what little food they had the
> > > > couple let the angels sleep in their bed where
> > > > they could have a good night's rest.
> > > >
> > > > When the sun came up the next morning the angels
> > > > found the farmer and his wife in tears.
> > > >
> > > > Their only cow, whose milk had been their sole
> > > > income, lay dead in the field.
> > > >
> > > > The younger angel was infuriated and asked the
> > > > older angel how could you have let this happen?
> > > >
> > > > The first man had everything, yet you helped him,
> > > > she accused.
> > > >
> > > > The second family had little but was willing to
> > > > share everything, and you let the cow die.
> > > >
> > > > "Things aren't always what they seem," the older
> > > > angel replied.
> > > >
> > > > "When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I
> > > > noticed there was gold stored in that hole in the
> > > > wall. Since the owner was so obsessed with
> > > > greed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I
> > > > sealed the wall so he wouldn't find it."
> > > >
> > > > "Then last night as we slept in the farmers bed,
> > > > the angel of death came for his wife. I gave him
> > > > the cow instead.
> > > >
> > > > "Things aren't always what they seem."
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes that is exactly what happens when
> > > > things don't turn out the way they should. If
> > > > you have faith, you just need to trust that
> > > > every outcome is always to your advantage. You
> > > > just might not know it until some time later...
> > > >
> > > > Oooo
> > > > Some people ( )
> > > > come into our lives ) /
> > > > and quickly go.. (_/
> > > >
> > > > oooO
> > > > ( ) Some people
> > > > \ ( become friends
> > > > \_) and stay awhile...
> > > >
> > > > leaving beautiful Oooo
> > > > footprints on our ( )
> > > > hearts... ) /
> > > > (_/
> > > >
> > > > oooO
> > > > ( ) and we are
> > > > \ ( never
> > > > \_) quite the same
> > > > because we have
> > > > made a good
> > > > friend!!
> > > >
> > > > Yesterday is history.
> > > > Tomorrow a mystery.
> > > > Today is a gift.
> > > > That's why it's called the present!
> > > >
> > > > I think this is special...live and savor every
> > > > moment... This is not a dress rehearsal!