What will happen to Greater Grace World Outreach

[Anonymous (64.12.113.7)]

What will happen to Greater Grace World Outreach?

Of course nobody knows exactly what will happen, but talks with current
and former attendees provide a certain outcome. Overall, GGWO will be a
shell of what it once was.

Current leadership and attendees (those who are knowledgeable about what
is going on) are mostly upset that Carl Stevens didn't have a plan for
his successor. This has caused a lot of confusion and created three
different camps. The first camp is those that are totally loyal to Carl
Stevens and want things to go on as in the past. This will result in
greater confusion because issues are not being dealt with and his health
is not getting better due to drug use and dementia. The second group is
those in favor of Schaller becoming the pastor. The third group is those
who do not want Schaller as the pastor because he is too missions
oriented. They want a pastor whose focus is the local church.


GGWO will only grow weaker because these three groups have created
division, backbiting, evil reports, negativity, etc. Elders are speaking
to attendees and missionaries of their dissatisfaction and their
preferences. At the same time they seek anonymity with the people they
speak with. Evil and hateful things are being done to people behind the
scenes for the sake of power and self-preservation.

GGWO will grow weaker because historically when a manipulative and
strong leader is removed, those that follow cannot maintain what the
previous leader did.

GGWO will grow weaker because more and more affiliated pastors are
withdrawing their verbal and financial support. Some are no longer
sending students to MBC&S. A few affiliated pastors will have nothing to
do with GGWO and more will join the ranks in the next few months. Notice
the number of affiliated web sites that have scaled back their
references to Carl Stevens and GGWO. Carl Stevens is absent from a few
of them.

GGWO will grow weaker because FACTNET (in spite of its weaknesses of
anonymity and trolls) has been successful in bringing to the forefront
the cultic tendencies of GGWO and the disgraceful and shameful behavior
of Carl Stevens and the elders. It has brought out the false doctrines
that are propagated, the evil manner in how people are treated
(especially those that leave the ministry) and the misuse of finances.
This time Carl Stevens can't use his manipulation and control to quiet
those that have been abused by him nor the cultic tendencies of the
church.

GGWO will grow weaker because other web sites have been created that
document the cultic behavior of GGWO and its founder.

GGWO will grow weaker because it is clueless to what is happening behind
the scenes with the larger body of Christ. GGWO's arrogant attitude of
superiority prevents them from seeing the harm they are doing to the
witness of Christ as it relates to the larger body of Christ. They are
clueless to the investigations and fact finding that is going on in the
evangelical community and what those results will bring. Instead of
reaching out for help, GGWO prefers to remain isolated due to its
arrogance.

GGWO will grow weaker because more and more families are being torn
apart because of issues of loyalty to Carl Stevens or this leader versus
another leader.

The only way GGWO can prosper is if Carl Stevens and the elders repent
and come clean with the travesty of their sins.

[Louise Connolly (24.128.24.65)]

I don't see your last sentence happening. I hope you are correct about the rest of your assumptions.

[Anonymous (24.58.114.87)]

"GGWO will grow weaker because historically when a manipulative and
strong leader is removed, those that follow cannot maintain what the
previous leader did. "

that's not really true, most of the GG churchs are independent of what goes on with Stevens, the churches themselves will operate fine if stevens were to die, or step down.

the church in baltip might be messed up for a long while, but as i said most of the churches world wide are independent of baltip, only they encourage people to go and see stevens ramble about on stage.

[Nancy (141.157.97.93)]

My prayer is healing, reformation and repentence for GG Baltimore where necessary and restitution where appropriate.

These are still brethren regardless of their error. God will correct all of us when He chooses according to His plan.

I trust the Lord knew all this long ago. We have spoken our piece and let issues be known by letter, privately and now here.

God is ever involved in His very own plan and whether we like it or not "all things will work together for good for those who love Christ" and "all things are for our sake that God's glory will show thru for others to benefit.

I have realize my wounds run deep and that only God's touch can heal them and He will as I learn to trust in Him and completely believe His Word.

I pray the elders would be humbled where necessary and I pray the same for us.

God bless all and have a safe night.

[Anonymous (80.221.67.118)]

Does anybody know what has happened to Grace Hour? On the website archives the latest program is from October 6th. Usually the archives are updated at least weekly. Is the Grace Hour still going on?

[Dave (4.156.90.122)]

The Grace was on yesterday,
and it appeared to be live, not a replay.

The latest Grace Hour Broadcasts seem to be positive,
but less people are calling in.


Dave

[Anonymous (68.83.101.114)]

With any luck at all GGWO will pass into the annals of history as just another cult that went bad and withered away with time after the passing of it's leader. Historians will, of course, study this cult and try to determine how it came into being and was able to brainwash so many.

May God have mercy on them all!

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

I'd like to see someone write a book about all of this.
We have books written on how to identify and get out of abusive situations, how about one that tells the story of one.

[Anonymous (63.27.8.161)]

lee,

It's funny you should mention this because I've been praying about writing a book on this very thing! I have a master's degree and wrote an eight chapter master's thesis and have a background in language arts so...

63 [the nice one]

[Anonymous (63.27.8.161)]

Ps, Though I'm anonymous perhaps we could collaborate for this endeavor?

[Anonymous (152.163.101.12)]

what would it be called?

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

I'd like to see something that not only would tell the story of how a church fell into 'whatever' (abuse, cultic, aberrational) but the typical tactics used to manipulate etc, include the history, personal stories, then tell what happened. How did people get out, stay out, get healthy etc. A story of God's redemption. Honestly, I don't have time for it. It's not my particular focus but if our story would be pertinent, I'd include it. So much research would still have to be done, putting it all together would require time that I don't have.

I wonder if the larger Christian community would benefit from such a thing.

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

Interesting concept. I have often thought about writing a book on the subject. The viewpoint is what always tangles me up. From who's viewpoint does one tell the story? A wounded/recovered ex member? A cult expert? It would be a huge undertaking and I would suggest many varying points of view written in sections, in a collaborative fashion. To make a good study of it one would need information on

The History
the Leader
The False doctrines Explained
The Wiscasset Experience
The S Berwick Experience
The Lenox Experience
The Baltimore Experience
The 80's Church Split
The Doveydenas Debacle
The Exodus to Baltimore
etc etc

It could be done with the research done in a collaborative way. And I do think that it would be a extremely beneficial work for the larger Christian community, if it was done with every base covered. Once the research and testimonies were gathered together, a single writer could arrange the said work into a readable and cohesive work.

I would so much love to write it...but could never do it without research assistance and contributions from former leaders, former members adding their testimony about what happened. Actually I find the concept and possibility of it fascinating!!

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

I like the layout you've put up. For first thoughts they are good!

Collaboration is a fun experience, I've done it with projects in our church combining music, dance, visual art, sculpture, installation, book art etc.....It's a beautiful picture of the body when you see it as a whole work. Our projects get larger and larger. We are working on a 2 yr project now called 'Fear Not' a stations of the Nativity. In 2 weeks we will have an assembly party for our book!

We have been able to do so much because we have an asst pastor that does our music program and can spend the time planning and organizing the large projects. Someone like him would be key. I admire people who do the basic planning and keeping things on schedule.

What a wonderful creative, redemptive thing to do for the body of Christ by the body of Christ!

[Bob Brinton (151.203.149.235)]

I would strongly suggest that someone who has never been part of the ministry should be one of the collaborators.

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

I disagree, Bob. The editor should be someone unfamiliar with the ministry, but not in on the collaborative process.

If it is "Our story" it should be written by us, and without interference from an outside source who would bring another agenda. The editor, being unfamiliar could point out continuity problems, lack of clarity, etc. This is necessary. But one person needs to coordinate the collaborative team, collate the research and blend it into a cohesive whole. And outside opinions are unnecessary at that point. Once it is written, yes, the editing can happen, but not until it is over.

Our story needs to be written with our voice from our perspectives as varying as they are.

JMHO

[Bob Brinton (151.203.149.235)]

I'm thinking in terms of someone who could see this more in terms of how it fits in with Christianity and cult mentality across the board; who would be more objective in their views. It wouldn't be something personal against them or their loved ones. It would add credibility. And they would be one voice, not the coordinator of the whole effort. A witness from a different direction; perhaps even an exit counselor.

[Bob Brinton (151.203.149.235)]

I've also been thinking that it would be great if all these articles from the papers and the CRI Report and others could be included as an appendix. Maybe you could get Ken Burns to do a documentary - no, just kidding.

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

Well, it will take a lot of thought to decide if I have what it takes to tackle the book. I'll have to wait and see what happens....

[Anonymous (63.27.82.193)]

Hopefully the same thing that happened to Jim and Tammy Faye Baker's empire...it crumbled!

[Anonymous (68.162.249.167)]

Ken Burns would be great. Doing interviews, he would be perfect. Wish it was something that he would undertake. He seems to have the knack of getting both sides without being biased.
Maybe there is a Ken Burns wannabe right here on Factnet.
I truly think it would be benifical to have someone who could really be unbiased, and factual,
get the story out there to help people understand and be helped.
Not everything was bad at GG, some mighty fine people have come out of there. But that was due to the protection of the Lord and the teachings that were right by the people who had a real eye on the Lord. There are a lot of Pastors out there, even on television, that are leading people down the wrong path. The trouble here is that there were so many things wrong and so many people who are benefiting at the expense of the body. Jenna

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

Bob, I understand your meaning. But what you propose is an altogether different book, and one that likely ought to be written. The book that I have outlined and practically written already in my head has a different focus is all.

[Bob Brinton (151.203.149.235)]

Roberta, Do whatever the Lord gives you. If you already have a clear vision for it, then don't swerve from it.

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

i want that book RJ when it comes out ...i dont like editors they edit ..let all the truth be revealed

[Anonymous (69.143.68.103)]

Here's a quote from lee:

"Collaboration is a fun experience, I've done it with projects in our church combining music, dance, visual art, sculpture, installation, book art etc....."

Sorry, lee, I couldn't resist:

"For one night only at the First Mariner Arena!

Brian Boitano is Pastor Carl Stevens in GREATER GRACE ON ICE!"

I really needed a laugh today.

Boss Martian
Is screwing off at work

[seeing double in delaware (152.163.101.12)]

They Could Always Turn the Pulpit over to Pastah Wisot from Delware. It will be like Stevens never left.He is an exact carbon copy of his mentor. I kid you not..start reading the 3 Delaware threads. The resemblance is uncanny.

[DBrown (68.88.72.129)]

I am writing a paper about GGWO for my encountering the cults class. Please e-mail me anything you know
Thanks, Devin
gossimerd@yahoo.com