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Anonymous (152.163.101.12)
10-26-2004, 04:19 PM
Summary of Concerns Regarding The Bible Speaks/Greater Grace World Outreach


The following information was gathered from many sources. Most have been provided by the eyewitness testimonies of both former and current GGWO staff members. They have provided a first-hand account of sinful wrongdoings, pervasive deceitfulness and calculated attempts to avoid any form or level of accountability by, not only those in positions of authority within GGWO, but its leader and ultimate authority Carl H. Stevens.

Over many years individuals who had witnessed situations including, but not limited to, biblically incorrect doctrine, improper use of church funds and gross mistreatment of members have approached Carl Stevens in an attempt to discuss those issues. Their attempts were met with denials, deceptions and diversions.

The unresolved, continuing issues are:

Improper understanding and use of delegated authority - This is documented in the CRI/ Martin Report, Dovydenas Case court transcripts, Lake Elsinore disaffiliation letter and the personal testimony of former members.

No public polity of correction and/or discipline of a pastor - There is no written, published, distributed, referenced or practiced biblical process, specifically with regard to the behavior by Carl Stevens. He has never been corrected or disciplined for malevolent actions.

Lack of conformity to preached doctrine - Carl Stevens has established a biblical doctrine that actively discourages slander or gossip. He clearly instructs his followers not to practice these tactics. He does not abide by this doctrine, specifically when referring to exiting members or those who question his ministry in any way.

Malicious treatment of exiting church members by the leader - This has been actively practiced by Carl Stevens for over 30 years. Within both small groups and in front of the entire congregation, he has maligned the character of those leaving the group by using slander and gossip. He considers those leaving his ministry for any reason to be his enemy and treats and refers to them as such.

Mental status changes of the leader - Within both small groups and in front of the entire congregation, Carl Stevens has exhibited slurred and unintelligible speech, lapses in recall and judgment resulting in both an inability to effectively communicate to his followers and the profession of false doctrine. On 7/14/2004 it was necessary for him to be prompted in order to continue the service. On 6/25/04 he made statements that were faulty and biblically inaccurate. He was approached regarding the doctrinal issue and made assurances privately that he would correct himself and his false teaching publicly at the next service, but he did not.

Active substance abuse by the leader - It is known to many that Carl Stevens struggles with a substance abuse problem that has on occasion become life threatening. His misuse of prescription narcotics has contributed to the deterioration of his cognitive state. He has strenuously resisted the intervention of his family members.

Malicious treatment of family member by the leader - When a member of leadership who is an immediate family member of Carl Stevens attempted to address the substance abuse of the leader, a written indictment of the person was composed and the church by-laws were changed to prevent the person from succeeding him as leader. There is written documentation of these actions. In addition, deceitful practices were employed in order to prevent the family member from attending these meetings while the documents were being crafted. Further, condemning, malicious statements were made publicly about the person by Stevens during services resulting in that family member being considered an enemy of the Baltimore church. All of these actions were taken without regard that the intervention of the family member motivated only by love had possibly saved the life of the leader. Further, when this family member began a separate church in general proximity to but not in competition with the Baltimore church, he was again the subject of indirect verbal attack by Carl Stevens during services.

Inaction of those in leadership regarding the substance abuse of the leader - The elders of the Baltimore church and some affiliated ministries are aware that Carl Stevens is misusing prescription drugs and have not acted to address the issues relative to that abuse. They have not followed through on the initial action they had taken. They are not assisting him in receiving treatment and continue to enable his self-destructive behavior, allowing him to repeatedly embarrass himself in public.

Disunity and discord between the elders - There is infighting among the elders, who are perplexed and indecisive regarding the issues related to the leader. There is a lack of consensus and, therefore, a lack of action to resolve the issues and bring the church back into a state of biblical compliance. This inaction has allowed situations to continue and problems to multiply.

Deception of the church members by the elders - The elders have not only dishonestly related the truth regarding the leader’s substance abuse to his followers, but they have actively lied to prevent public disclosure of it.

Failure to act in a manner that is dutiful to the position of elder - The elders have not been faithful in their duties by failing to act on the numerous breaches of biblical doctrine and behavior by Carl Stevens.

Intimidation, manipulation and coercion by an elder - Written internal documents have been composed and distributed by an elder regarding issues with other persons in leadership positions which contain fabricated details and falsehoods in a foolish attempt to intimidate, manipulate and/or coerce the receivers into behaving in a certain manner. Other staff members are aware of these specious indictments and do not address the unbiblical action.

Violation of accepted biblical doctrine by the leader regarding an accusation of a church member - Allegations of wrong-doing, subsequently determined to be false, were received by Carl Stevens and the elders in the absence of the accused member, a clear violation of scripture. The accuser was bound by an oath not to say speak of the issue to the member, even if asked directly. The elders were also instructed to say nothing to the member or spouse.

Inappropriate use of church funds by the leader - An adulterous affair by a staff pastor resulted in money being paid as part of a concerted effort to keep an unethical, possibly illegal, situation from being made public.

Malicious treatment of a victimized spouse by the leader - Carl Stevens, along with church elders, actively and aggressively maligned the character of the husband victimized by an adulterous affair in front of the entire congregation.

Public profession of false biblical doctrines by the leader - These include, but are not limited to, delegated authority, salvation by obedience, the presentation of the believer at the Bema Seat by the leader. It is evidenced in both spoken and written form by publications by and recordings of the leader.

Anonymous (68.83.101.114)
10-26-2004, 05:29 PM
You hit the nail on the head 152.

If we had only started with this statement of the facts, perhaps we would not have thousands of threads on this board.

Now that the facts are clear and concise, what do we do with them???

Any suggestions anybody??

Anonymous (69.143.68.103)
10-26-2004, 08:56 PM
What do you do? Simple.

Any people who still go to GGWO or that have recently left and want to see REAL reform, get together, elect a spokesman and EMPHATICALLY tell Carl that he has to step down, TODAY or all tithes or any other form of support for this cult stops. Say it, mean it, DO IT.

Otherwise, if you are reading Factnet and agree with the "dissenting faction", leave. There are plenty of other churchs that won't prey on you like a vampire.

Trying to solve this problem while attempting to respect "pastah's" dignity is not going to work. Do not mince words, forget about sentimentality, get straight to the point, and tell him to STEP DOWN. No wiggling out by letting him retire or reducing his work load.

If you read the list of problems and agree with them, get tough. Withold the money and leave. Don't fall for that "what about the unsaved?" crap excuse. Either you're part of the solution, or part of the problem.

Stevens is NOT God. You won't get cancer. You won't die. Kick him out. If you stick together, you can kick him out.

You have to be willing to see GGWO dissolve. If you promise (not threaten, PROMISE) to withold tithes and leave AS A GROUP, I guarantee you will get someone's attention. The unfortunate thing is, and I'm VERY cynical, is that the elders will attempt to go along just to preserve their position of power.

Stop talking. Do it. Or leave.

Boss Martian

Anonymous (152.163.101.12)
10-27-2004, 02:29 AM
Well said and done Boss. And very direct.

I don't mean to sound negative but don't hold your breath. People are too scared to stand up to CHS after all these years. It won't happen.
They won't have a place to go to play church!!!

However i love what you wrote.

Anonymous (212.38.225.105)
10-27-2004, 12:26 PM
This is good.

Anonymous (63.27.15.90)
10-27-2004, 12:38 PM
It is agreed that Stevens needs to step down; however, don't fall into Shaller, Steve Stevens, Marr, Robinson's trap in the meantime. These four have been working tirelessly to take of GGWO for a loooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg
time and are just waiting for this very thing so they can scoop up the power, money etc so watch out. I hope the whole thing folds just like Jim and Tammy Baker's organization did...it stinks to high heaven and God is rocking their world!

Anonymous (152.163.101.12)
10-27-2004, 02:06 PM
We have been hearing the same thing. A major takeover is happening. Schaller is using terms like "when I take over." There is a list of who will be fired when he gets rid of Carl. Anyone who has not sworn allegiance to Schaller or long time enemies of Schaller like Dan Lewis are on that list. A large portion of this takeover is focused on the teenagers and young adults. They are recruiting the children. In the last week of I have heard of several high schoolers who have been told to stay in Baltimore. They have been harshly spoken to in front of others. They have been told they are "into evil" for attending different churches with their parents. They have been told they are going against God if they leave GGBaltimore. John Love is going from child to child demanding their allegiance to GGBaltimore. Schaller is heavily recruiting the recent high school graduates. He is taking them on trips and asking them to preach. They are doing this knowing full well where their parents stand. It is evil and disgusting and it is a focused tactic to cause divisions in these families. These guys will not stop until they have split these families apart. They need the young minds and bodies to build the Schaller/Marr/S.Stevens/Robinson empire. And they are damn mad that Carl refuses to die!

Anonymous (69.143.68.103)
10-27-2004, 02:12 PM
RISE
Bad Brains

Did you ever question any of the things they taught while you were at school... And did you ever question "Oh my teacher, why do you take me for a fool?" RISE UP you got to RISE UP, WAKE UP and RISE. When you're all alone, you'll search for love but they'll have none, this is the seed that they have sown. Don't be afraid, a better place has yet to come. And when they won't teach or reach or feed, all they do is leave you and deceive you. Be true to yourself and save your mind. Lesson for the young, so now let's fly away into the light of a brand new sun, the time has come. RISE UP, you gotta RISE UP, WAKE UP, AND RISE! We'll meditate, communicate, escalate. Don't be late, we just can't wait to liberate this human race. GO! RISE UP! You gotta RISE UP, WAKE UP and RISE! Don't let them take away your culture, don't let them take away your future RISE UP, YOU GOT TO RISE!

Boss Martian

Anonymous (141.154.189.22)
10-27-2004, 04:07 PM
Of course they are going to target YOUR teens. That is what cults do. They prey upon those who are in the state of confusion. Most teenagers are in a constant flux of confusion. They are in a process of trying to figure out who they are, so manipulating them is very easy, especially if they have been taught the doctrine of ggwo from a young age.

Best thing to do is get yourself and your children out of there before it's too late!

Anonymous (64.12.117.12)
10-27-2004, 10:03 PM
Someone should dress up like Martin Luther, call the media and nail a copy of the Summary of Concerns Regarding TBS/GGWO on the door of the chapel. Reformation anyone?

Seriously, isn't delegated authority, geographical will and Bema seat presentation as bad as selling indulgences?

Doesn't Carl perceive himself to be the Vicar of Christ? Doesn't he profess himself to be the "supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful"?

God's Word reveals that someone else already fills that position:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..." John 16:13

Anonymous (69.143.68.103)
10-27-2004, 10:13 PM
"Someone should dress up like Martin Luther, call the media and nail a copy of the Summary of Concerns Regarding TBS/GGWO on the door of the chapel. Reformation anyone?"

Hmmmmmm.........

Now THAT is just the sort of thing that would get some much needed media attention!

At the end of World War II, the Axis powers, particularly the Germans began using children (the Hitler Youth) as full fledged soldiers when the viability of their "regular" armed forces was lost.

It is terrible to use children like this, but it also shows that a level of desperation has set in.

Time to get the media involved........ If by some miracle from God above Carl himself ended up on TV, it would say VOLUMES about this poisoned ministry.

I think this could happen VERY VERY soon. Need to make a few phone calls.........

Bob Brinton (141.154.147.150)
10-27-2004, 11:46 PM
Is Tom buying the teens brown shirts? Teaching them how to give proper salutes?

Anonymous (64.12.117.12)
10-28-2004, 04:23 AM
.

Anonymous (151.203.157.69)
10-28-2004, 05:55 AM
.

RJ (151.203.157.69)
10-28-2004, 05:58 AM
Anon 152

I think it is time to bang on the doors of the Baltimore Sun and get this melt down out to the public and to each branch ministry.

How much $$ does it take to take out a full page ad ...I'll contribute $$ if the Sun won't cover it otherwise.

Anonymous (151.203.157.69)
10-28-2004, 06:00 AM
.

Anonymous (4.155.236.67)
10-28-2004, 06:46 AM
Wow RJ another "Sun" article for Michael Marr to stick up for CHS in? I would suggest you ppl NOY go to Frank Langfitt this time, go over his head to his supervisor and get someone else.

Tell them Langfitt printed partial truths.

Anonymous (4.155.236.67)
10-28-2004, 06:48 AM
Wish I had the money to contribute but I don't. Wife's not working right now and she's running the checkbook. Last thing I need to give money to someone writing a newspaper article when we are still "IN" GGWO (I am for appearances, I have to be for "family.").

Loved the pic of Scottie Robingsome in a dress. It was great.

Anonymous (69.143.68.103)
10-28-2004, 04:12 PM
I'm ready to contribute.

Boss Martian

Anonymous (151.203.157.69)
10-28-2004, 05:13 PM
.

Anonymous (141.157.75.113)
10-28-2004, 10:21 PM
If the Holy Spirit in us is leading and guiding us each day to the extent that we have surrendered our will to His, why then do we need another newspaper article???

If we are trusting God for seeing changes take place and I mean major changes in GGWO that are (to me) somewhat OVERDUE...then isn't God able to make these changes? I still have major hope in God's promises to me. I still believe He will do what is His will, according to His plan, in His time as far as changes occurring at GGWO.

We will reap if we faint not!! Don't give up!!
Lets not take things in our own hands and run with them. Sure its aggravating some days waiting on God where many want the doors to permanently shut for this ministry. Thats not my heart here. I want to see changes made, whether its taken 30 years for them or not!!
I want to see people healed that were wounded by the hands of the leaders. I want to see GOD move in people's lives and for Him to rebuild the work HIS way. Not Pastor Steven's way, Pastor Schaller's, Pastor Robinson's, Pastor Marr's, Dr. Lewis's, Pastor Steve Steven's...etc!!!

i have great hope in my heart despite all that I have come to see in the natural. God is able to do exceedingly MORE than what we ask or think. I just believe it IS going to come about. If I don't hold onto that, my life for the last 14 years would be considered a waste to me and I can't deal with that so I have to look to God and believe the best -- HIS best not man's best.

Yes I do pray daily for those changes to come about, and yes, I do get very angry at things I see sometimes and hear, and also the anger still comes up simply from the straw that broke the camel's back in causing me to leave once and for all. Many of us are there. I don't live in a fantasy world that Jesus is going to come with a white horse riding into GGWO and all of a sudden its going to be like Mr Roger's Neighborhood again where everything is perfect like at Walgreen's....LOL

Anyhow, not to pick an argument with my friend Roberta, and Boss http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif but I just can't see the sense of the wasted energy spent or the money spent for another newspaper article. Frank Langfitt already wrote one, wouldn't he have written another one by now if there was a need for it from his point of view?

Thats all for now, have a great day everybody!

Maria

RJ (151.203.157.69)
10-29-2004, 12:09 AM
Energy is never wasted energy if you are in the spirit and working to expose evil.

The Baltimore Sun is not going to go out of it's way to bother with GGWO by the looks of things. They need a bigger scandal, preferably a sexual scandal or they won't care.

Why take out an ad? Why not? There are people who need to know what is going on. If the local area non-GGWOers are not warned about this place they will be targeted by the new regime Tom Schaller is planning, and yes, I have sources that report your friend Marr is assisting him. I am totally against this place regrouping under a Schaller banner and going out to the community to rebuild the numbers so they can preach the same lies and destroy more lives..

It has happend like this every time a new "incarnation" of this so-called church appears...there is a "split" or a problem, the number and money dwindle and there next comes the big push to replenish the coffers and fill the seats. The big recruitment push after the Quinlan /CRI report is when I got snagged by this cult.

AND MAKE NO MISTAKE...IT IS NOT AT ALL DONE TO GLORIFY GOD. THIS IS A DANGEROUS CULT.

I believe in my heart of hearts that if we are believers, and we are, we have the spirit in us, and if it is moving, and it is, we need to be available to do whatever it has for us to do.

Doing something overt...someone sending those 600+ postcards out to people got the ball rolling was amazing! People actually NOT ATTENDING the services there is doing something. I am not willing to sit back and watch this happen all over again...they lose people then find a way to replenish the butts in the seats and the dollars in the accounts. They will tell any lie to get what they want, haven't we all seen this to be true?

People on this board have repeatedly asked why the organization is still around after all these years of scandal etc....Well this is why:

People may be willing to make it bleed but they refuse to kill it.

Harsh analogy? Tes, but it is a true one. Many times GG has been brought to its knees, but it is always allowed to reinvent and move on to someplace else where other of our Christian brothers and sisters get caught in the web of lies, corruption and deceit.

It will happen again, make no mistake. The history of this place bears out my words. I am not willing for this to happen again and if there is anything at all I can do to see that this reign of lies, sin and corruption in the name of the God who loves me ends once and all, you can bet your last cent I will do it.

If it takes me till I am dead, I will stand against this kind of evil done in the name of God. No one was there to warn me...but I will warn others as much as loudly as boldly and as often as I can.

RJ (151.203.157.69)
10-29-2004, 12:13 AM
This is why exposure is imperative!

Anonymous (152.163.101.12)
Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 09:06 am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have been hearing the same thing. A major takeover is happening. Schaller is using terms like "when I take over." There is a list of who will be fired when he gets rid of Carl. Anyone who has not sworn allegiance to Schaller or long time enemies of Schaller like Dan Lewis are on that list. A large portion of this takeover is focused on the teenagers and young adults. They are recruiting the children. In the last week of I have heard of several high schoolers who have been told to stay in Baltimore. They have been harshly spoken to in front of others. They have been told they are "into evil" for attending different churches with their parents. They have been told they are going against God if they leave GGBaltimore. John Love is going from child to child demanding their allegiance to GGBaltimore. Schaller is heavily recruiting the recent high school graduates. He is taking them on trips and asking them to preach. They are doing this knowing full well where their parents stand. It is evil and disgusting and it is a focused tactic to cause divisions in these families. These guys will not stop until they have split these families apart. They need the young minds and bodies to build the Schaller/Marr/S.Stevens/Robinson empire. And they are damn mad that Carl refuses to die!

Anonymous (151.203.157.69)
10-29-2004, 01:30 AM
.

rjfernalld (rjfernalld)
11-07-2004, 05:36 AM
Making sure this post is nearer the top of the page