WHERE DID THEY GO

[EF (152.163.253.102)]

POST HERE IF YOU KNOW ANY EX BS OR GGERS, WHERE THEY ARE, AND WHAT THEY MIGHT PRESENTLY BE DOING.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

I would like to be refired to as "Ticked off"
EF
I am a ex of tbs and ggwo. what do you have to say that might curiously stimulate my trust.

[EF (152.163.253.102)]

IM AN EX BSer too TICKED OFF, AND WAS JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHERE SOME OF US OTHER CAST OFF MIGHT HAVE GONE AND HOW THEY HAVE MOVED ON WITH THEIR LIVES AFTER THE AFTERMATH......

[Anonymous (64.26.82.18)]

I could go for a nice blow job by one of those high school girls...they have a bunch of hotties in GGCA...that would ease the tension....

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

As most of you know, J & L Leonard are in Boston.
Kathy Gallagher is married , is now a Murphy with 2 gorgeous boys
The Dorsey clan are still here, still friends. Debbie is married with 4 girls!!!!
Dawn has 2 boys married, getting lots of education
Rachel just grd HS is on her way to college. Is tall and athletic.
Kevin Lynch is in Plymouth, getting married this summer.
Anyone else you curious about? Maybe we go too far back.

[EF (152.163.253.102)]

I GO BACK TO THE MID 70S LEE... SO KEEP EM COMING.
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BILL FISHER AND HIS LOVELY LITTLE WIFE LIZBETH?

[EF (64.12.116.66)]

HOW ABOUT JOHN GARDNER?
BOB AND LUANN HERRING?
ROBIN ROTHFELD CLARKE?
BARBARA BROWN?
DAWN GELLER?
MARGARET TAVARES?
CARLENE AND TOM TOOLE?
MARGARET ROYALS?
SANDY CROCKER?

THESE ARE SOME OBSCURE PEOPLE WHO KIND OF JUST FADED AWAY BUT ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT NONE THE LESS

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

This is ticked off.

I am a recovering "member", but I have reach a decision that I no longer care to keep my mouth shut. When I was in TBS in lenox my dealings with a certain pastor taught me to submit or else.
There would be a conviction in my heart even then that this love bombing is really a threat to ones emotion and is mentally manipulated by persuasion. This abuse has made the ending very enlighting for me to evole away from GGWO. I say enlightening because simply I am not impressed with the childish babling that is on this board. I am serious and want to talk serious. So please let your inquiry be enlighting as to my involvement so to speak.

This is to the ex members who are searching for answers to why carl is the way he is as a human.

[EF (64.12.116.66)]

TICKED OFF
I AM SO VERY SORRY FOR YOUR PAIN AND I SO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM. IT IS MANY YEARS FOR ME NOW SINCE I HAVE SEVERED MY AFFILIATION WITH THE BS. IT WAS WAY BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME AND MOVED TO BALTIMORE. IF THERE IS ANYTHING I CAN DO FOR YOU OR IF YOU WOULD LIKE MY PERSONAL EMAIL TO CONTACT ME I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SEE IF I CAN HELP.

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

To ticked off,
Why not try the new board. Perhaps some of your concerns can be talked about there. Also there have been many very good resources mentioned. Some have also left their emails for anyone that would like to talk away from the board.

I believe what is happening on this board is a healthy type of 'gossip', if you must call it gossip. This is the kind of thing (so far anyway) that holds communities together.

If anyone, anywhere at anytime sees Dawn Gellar Please have her call us! She stopped by a number of years ago and we really really miss her.

Anyone remember Anne Cote? She is in Ga. and has a huge job as some kind of Global quality control person for Kimberly Clarke....we keep in touch.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Stevens is a classic case study of a sick and insecure but clever man that figured out a way never to deal with his sickness. He used "Christianity" to evolve into his own little personality cult. He really is quite clever because he has taken every"trial" and prospered from it. Even now he has masterfully keeps everyone doing his bidding. In his wake, he leaves lives devastated and victims all over this country. Nothing will stop this man and those that have also profited by his personality cult.

We ex-members have an obligation to keep pointing this out and get as many that have an ear, to hear the truth and get out before their life lies in ruins around them.

[Anonymous (24.211.177.206)]

EF

Please be polite, use proper E-manners and STOP using all UPPERCASE in your posts.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

EF

Ticked off here. I am living in a situation that is tricky for me to trust. I would like to continue chating for awhile. I am convinced that there is a need for assistance for those who are not involved anymore. Reaching these individuals takes dedication and money. I reach to you to know if you are in Mass?

Sincerely "ticked off"

[EF (64.12.116.66)]

TICKED OFF
BEING SPIRITUALLY VIOLATED IS THE WORSTE KIND OF ABUSE A HUMAN BEING CAN ENDURE. HOPEFULLY YOU WILL GET OVER YOUR ANGER AT SOME POINT, AND BE ABLE TO GO FORWARD WITH A PROSPEROUS SPIRITFILLED LIFE, EVEN STRONGER IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD... BUT I KNOW IT TAKES TIME.

I HUNG ON TO ONE SCRIPTURE THROUGH MY HEALING PROCESS AND THAT IS THE FAITHFULNESS OF HE WHO CALLS YOU WHO ALSO WILL DO IT.
YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A PURE HEART AND ARE JUST TRYING TO FIND SOME PEACE AND ANSWERS TO WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU. I HAVE CONCLUDED THAT THE REASON WE ALL WENT THRU WHAT WE DID MAY NOT COMPLETELY BE REVEALED TO US TIL WE SIT IN OUT BIG GODS LAP AND HE WHISPERS IN OUR EAR WHY HE ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN.
IN THE MEANTIME THERE ARE ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND I AM HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN ALL BE A SUPPORT TO EACH OTHER

[ef (64.12.116.66)]

sorry about the big caps guys...
ticked off... no im not in mass. i am originally from there but make my home in florida now. dont worry about the trust factor either. i know it is not the easiest thing to do at that well... ticked off stage... that you are. we are here for you. just let us know...

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

ticked off,
Sorry, I didn't mean to brush off your concerns at all.....actually, I was fine with your first name! Kind of says it all. Also, didn't want you to get too bogged down with the more light hearted stuff.

Truely, there are many here for you. We really do understand and have been and at times are still as angry about things as you are. Nothing you say would surprise us.

Want some email addresses?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

"Ticked Off" there are many here for you. Many just freshly out of GG and many that left TBS a long time ago. We have been through this process and many are still in the anger stage. From your posts it looks like you have done some reading on the practices of cultic/abusive churches. Have you read any books on the subject? Do you have outside supportive friends? Did you know that recovery from spiritual abuse is likened to that of incest?? You have a right to be angry! You have been horribly mistreated and hurt. But there is healing, and there is hope for a healthy and individual walk with God. Many of us are here to help? Let us know how.. and you are right, trust becomes a big issue when you walk away from such a group. We have all been through that one! Thank God for this anonymous board!

[ef (64.12.116.66)]

where is pastor alpren?
ramona judd?
steve and leslie stratos?
peter and june hill?
susie morrison?

[ef (64.12.116.66)]

danny quirk?
fred who used to work in the cafeteria ar bible speaks?
miriam, the small little lady who everyone thought a little odd?
ron kelly?
steve quinlan?
gary lemaster?
stan and his eccentric little wife (cant remember her name)?
robin boynton farmer?

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Hello EF
I am satisfied that you understand a great picture of what is unnatural and controlling. I am determined that I can build a ground to stand on but I am praying for my own miracles and when the time is right I will have a victory to witness. One thing GGWO did illistrate how to pray and as far as I am willing to go I have the ability to submit to the patience I need in waiting. I am in an awkward position and talking to past members is what I feel can do. When I change my position I will have vented enough anger to feel no guilt. As for now typing interests me; I need the practice.

note from Ticked off for now.

[ef (64.12.116.66)]

ticked off
when i left BS it created a lot of worldy issues and addictions for me for awhile...so i went to a wonderful christian lady counselor who really helped me through my severence from the BS. her greatest adivce to me was "dont throw the baby out with the bathwater" we have our salvation, we have learned some basic fundamental truths inside all of those things that are not. i am glad to hear that you are holding fast to some of the things you learned while involved in tbs and gg.
praying is a good thing to hold to.i believe that ultimately you are going to be able to dismember, with the help of the spirit, those things to hld on to that are pure and those things that are hurtful to a spiritfilled and heart truely after God.

even tho alot of what we expereicned and witnessed is not Godly there are some things we can surely use as instruments to strengthen our relationshop with God.
remember God used balaams ass... jesus said he could use rocks to praise him.... so there is a baby in our bathwater. we just have to kind of weed thru all the goop to find it. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (63.108.96.13)]

Ramona Judd is married to Pastor Ben Turkia and they are currently on the missionfield and have been for a number of years in Israel.

Danny Quirk, unfortunately died a few years ago of cancer. He is greatly missed.

[ef (64.12.116.66)]

oh! so sorry to hear about danny. i remember those anakin sandwiches he invented on the folkine student union menu. and he also had great pizza there too http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[SJ (152.163.253.102)]

Stan Ashby is also dead, don't know about his wife Sylvia. Steve and Leslie Stratos are in Oregon but visit Springfield, MA occasionally. Ron Kelly is in Maine, I believe.

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Ron Kelly is in Pennsylvania at a Christian Missionary Alliance Church...He still sings in a quartet

Steve Quinlan is a PCUSA pastor married to another pastorette...they live in NJ

John and Grace still live in Pittsfield last I heard, Grace's mom Ruby still in GGWO?

Bob and Luann still in Lee or Berkshires area.

Fred Moulton does a cartoon called "Sgt.Splatter" for paintball fanatics--he lives in Harrisburg PA area

Someone said Chet Farmer had passed away, true?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

yes. chet passed in dec. 2003. his lungs finally gave out on him from the cystic fibrosis he suffered all of his adult life. he was a real favorite of mine and a true friend

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.247)]

Why don't you "exes" post your real name? Leftover paranoia?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

there is no reason to site any negativity on this board sam spade... which you readily admit is not your real name either. its a free country. people can opt to use their real names or not. the issue on this board is as the title suggests, not for people to come in here and make inane and useless accusations. thanks for coming to visit and you are welcome back but be nice.

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

so many people have moved on and not so many people from this church have keep in touch, they go on there marry way, not being bad people but just not caring and not loving like jesus told us to do, its amasing that the 2nd commandment is to love, love like jesus did and so so many are just asleep and have hurt so many people and there spirits with jesus, people be loving

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

many people have not kept in touch 68. you are right. but when one decides to move on and go on their merry way there are a lot of psychological issues that they are dealing with. there is a lot of hurt betrayal and abuses that are all aimed at the spirit. once they are healed or on their way to being so then they look to reconnect with people they knew from their past. so dont feel bad if people move on and kind of fade into the woodwork for awhile. there is alot more than meets the eye to leaving TBS and GG

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.248)]

I was only wondering. It just didn't make sense is all. No offense intended, only a possible explanation to the inexplicable.

I've been on this board quite a while now. As I am presently in GGWO, I maintain my anonymity (at leat I hope I do) to avoid unnecessary conflict and misunderstanding. If I was out, I would surely use my name without hesitation.

Again, no offense, and no negativity intended, though I do tend to get sharp unitentionally.

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

no problem sam. i just hope of all the boards listed we can keep this one free from... well.. you kmow how they can get...

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.247)]

So, who are you, EF?

I probably even know you.

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

how far back do you go sam?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Dear Sam Spade

I can tell that your attitude and disposition is programmed to respond to the network of people that talk that carl henry stevens is definitely incouraging you to do so from the pulpit in your estimation of what he thinks of you. I am not saying he puts you up to it maybe but that it gives you pleasure to find fault with everyone. It is clear to me that you feel obligated and energized by the stigma of the pyschological you yourself find pity in your heart that is selfrightious.

Sincerely, "Ticked off"

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.248)]

EF,
Late 70's.

Ticked,
Your pseudo-psycoanalysis was a total flop. Talk straight.

Here's lookin' atcha.

[ef (205.188.117.20)]

im late 70s too. im sure we stood in the same...cafeteria line more than once.

[ef (205.188.117.20)]

please dont fight guys and make this forum like all the other boards. sam... ticked off is working through some issues right now. please.. no mud slinging name calling or overall mean spiritedness if we can help it. thanks dollies http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.245)]

yea EF,
I most likely served you in that line..heh..heh..heh.

I'm not fighting with Ticked. Gosh! Do we all have to be so suuuuuupersensitive? I'm a guy and you're probably gals, so that's the real misunderstanding here, right?

FYI, ticked - I love Pr. Stevens and GGWO. I also have many friends and colleagues who have left and I love and respect them too.

[ef (205.188.117.20)]

at some points in the "exodus" so to speak, sam, things can be overtly painful when you are dealing through issues. so yes.. there is a time of supersensitivity... there is no difference between between male or female when seeking other christian options.. that is not a misunderstanding. i appreciate your desire to try to understand it, but until or unless you ever decided to take this very path you just would not.
thank you for respecting everyone for their personal spiritual choices tho. i find that very noble.
do you know where any of the people are listed in this forum? that is really what this board is all about.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Sam Spade,

Who have you been talking to on the elder board. Your tone and attitude has changed.

God was speaking to you but I guess you stopped listening.

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.250)]

EF,
Women often misunderstand kidding, answering in like manner, or getting a little snarky as aggresion. Just my observation after debating with atheists for some years on the Internet.

I do understand the struggles some go through. We've been through them too, and not just a few - and, after much prayer, soul-searching, and counsel, we've decided to stay. Gee, is there anyone out there who understands amd sympathizes with us?

I'm not sure what your question was about the people on this forum. I have no idea who they are.

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.250)]

64.12,
You are being paranoid. Everyone is not out to get you, and there is no sinister conspiracy behind one little long-term GGWOer who sees the errors and need for reform, and has for a long, long time, and yet has decided that this is not the end of the story. I have talked to no one. My attitude has not changed.

Why does the fact that I can see both sides and understand them so perturb you? Because you cannot?

[ef (205.188.117.20)]

the people i am asking about sam are the ones that are listed as "where are they"? if you go back to the 70s then surely some of those names listed must ring a bell.. by the way. men often misunderstand kidding too. and, just to clarify... we are not athiests. we are christians. just like you hun.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Amen EF!

SS, your decision to stay is written all over your change of tone and attitude. Align with the abusers and you become one. And you an overseeing pastor, shame on you. I will pray for you but I have nothing further to discuss with you.

And do not infer "women" can't take a little sarcastic humor. I have had quite enough of that "off" macho attitude towards women when I belonged to GG and I will not receive your "off" comment now.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Sam, I noticed, too. I was hoping it was just a bad day.

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

can we get back to the subject of "where did they go"?

Can someone tell me the story of Stan Ashby?
Jim Faucett told about him being in 70's South Berwick. What about after that?
I don't remember him from early-mid 80's Lenox days...

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Okay - where did the old Sam go?

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

Please address my question, someone.
Before it gets lost amidst the silly back & forth that keeps dominating all the boards!

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Bob, I heard that Stan died. I think he had left Lenox by the mid-80's.. anyone else you are wondering about?

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

Was he marked when he left or...(is it possible to not be when someone leaves?)

Does Steamy still attend GG?

Why did P. Jeff from Canada disaffiliate?

What do the folks in Hungary like the Hornes think of all the junk happening at homebase- or do they even know??

[SJ (149.174.164.83)]

Bob,
Stan Ashby always taught that Jesus would come back in the year 2000. He and some others who worked with him in his "lab" converted an old school bus into a motor home and drove it to Central America (El Salvador I think). They wanted to go to a South Pacific island and set up a survivalist community. Later Stan spoke in Lenox about how the whole thing was a mistake. He was definitely a very eccentric guy

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

How are the older Duffs doing (such a precious couple- and VERY loyal to Stevens)???...this whole mess must be so difficult for them.

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

Did everyone go to sleep already??
How bout some answers to one of my previous questions?

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Steamy is here in Baltimore GG.

Pastor Jeff is no longer with Gg.

The Hornes are very loyal Stevens fans

P. Guy duff is paying a huge price for standing up for truth. I don't know how much longer he will be at GG.. gracefully pushed out the door, I my guess..

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

The latest long line of leavers is Gail and James Kirby, Kent Sutorius, Linda Canino, Jack and Chris Brown, Steve and Jeannie Byrne, Ed and Kathy Lutz, DeDe Stoddard, June Lowell and Jacqui Gough.

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

I don't think June Lowell left the church...just the Bible College

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

I think you are wrong on that one..

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Add to the long line of recent leavers... Heather and Mike Byrne.

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Stu Franklin...

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

right.. I forgot him too

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Sam Balzanna

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Yep Him Too.

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Eventually all of the Aberdeen people will leave...I am not criticizing...just stating the fact..

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Well, they should leave they are treated like "enemies in the camp"...

It is a disgusting display of immorality on pastor's part and all the pastor enablers

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

They are definately treated like enemies in the camp...I am just trying to figure out if they really are enemies in the camp or not...too much stuff to wade through to find out what has really happened

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Well my friend, I am not in any of the camps but I know this: anyone that crosses Stevens in anyway is a marked man/woman. It doesn't matter if you are blood or have been loyal for thirty odd years. You will be discarded and trashed and eventually gone.

Cara

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

diepetro?

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

No...

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

whatever happened to (pastor???)mark morin?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

what is Aberdeen people?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

where did mark morin go?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

rick siccoti and his wife?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

why arent my messages posting on this thing?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

oh... there they all are.... oops!

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

david tomb.scott myers,keith hancok, joe levoy, lisa helinga,kim carlson, tom,carleen toole were are they,

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

is nancy byrd and her husband still involved in GG?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

carlene toole is still married to tom and they live in western mass. i dont know what they are doing... i think they have some affiliation to rick knapps outreach... some sort of tape misnistry. i dont stay in touch with them but that is last i heard from mike anair, who does.

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

I always heard that Rick Knapp, though once a heralded pastor at TBS Lenox was GONE and OFF.

Like so many of the "gone" folks maybe he ended up being right on and went on to good things.
Does anyone know what his ministry is all about??

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

dont know much about his ministry. i wonder if he has a website... has anyone any information of cliff mueller and his wife suzanne.. or her sister donna canny?

[ef (152.163.253.102)]

bob
i think this is the church of rick knapp. there is a doctrinal statement on this website which will indicate to you what their belief system is check it out: http://www.tetelestai.org/

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Anybody know what happened to Steven and Michele Duff? I haven't seen them in ages

[lee (65.96.56.161)]

Humor me, okay folks? I'm wondering about some kids my kids went to school with and played with....I guess, as a mother, I'd like to know how they all are.
I'll name a few I can remember. Chris Mallick? he played GI Joe with Joe and had lots of matchbox cars. Twins? Ben Kirby, Matthew L, can't remember last name. My mind is old and I can't remember more!

Remember Sandy Bridges? She married a guy from our church. They both had a son and then they had 4 more sons! She was widowed a few yrs ago.....she's currently on a short term missions trip to Turkey.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Here are some more names from the past. Dennis Sheehan, Lindy Dale, Debbie Jones, Mary Wall, Matt Pihony. Any info?

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Sonny and Joanie Clark anybody?

Pastor Joel Freeman and Laurie divorced

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Joanie and Sonny Clark are long divorced. Joanie is in Pastor Morrison's ministry in Marlboro, MA

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Rick Knapp is a follower of R.B. Thieme's theology which was touted by Carl Stevens through Thieme's book on the Canon. Stevens also took a cue from Thieme on his understanding of the "finished work."

What about Linda Gray, Bill Starr, Lois and Jay Powers?

Mike Graves? Somebody said he ran a limo service on Long Island, true?

somebonus@yahoo.com

[Anonymous (67.208.13.194)]

Where are they now ?

Some partial answers to the many questions...
may be of some help and from usually reliable sources...

Rick Siccotti if my information is correct had an affair and he and his wife split up... any correction or accurate corroboration would be appreciated ..

Rick Knapp's church i'm told operates with the R.B. Theime theology (somewhat military in style)

Matt Pihony returned to Pennsylvania briefly last year when his Dad passed away, Matt is in Business in the midwest SUPPOSEDLY.

Dave Tomb , back home to Indiana, Pa. ?

Whoever asked about the Hornes , if you are referring to Woot Horne as he was known in Lenox, a member of his mission team in Europe in 1994 reported that Woot had an affair that caused severe strain on his marriage, they came back to Baltimore not long after and are still married last I heard.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

june brooks?

[SJ (205.188.117.20)]

Bill Starr married Donna Birmingham and they had two kids, but now they are divorced and she is up in New Hampshire with the kids. Don't know where he is. I think Linda Gray is in California, and her sister Julie is in the GG church in Brockton, MA

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

I know that the Hornes are thoroughly reconciled and quite a precious couple. As of last summer when last saw them, they are back in Hungary.

I wonder how coming back for convention is going to be for some of these folks WHO KNOW NOTHING about what's been going on at homebase!!

I just spoke with someone from the Montreal church who KNEW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about all the junk that's been going on since last year!!

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Maybe it would be a good time to get the word out about what IS going on. Might be a good time to reach many.

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Any word on Linda Behanna or Kristin Wiltse?

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

Alex and his brother Steve Monte

[Anonymous (67.208.13.105)]

Alex Monti was often referred to in terms of being an infidel, after he left TBS. in 1985.
His younger brother Steve had this blind loyalty
thing for Stevens and kept his precious family there until recently. Anyone know of his whereabouts and what happened?

[Gail (209.86.7.10)]

Lee,

Ben Kirby is well and in Baltimore. He's in construction and does beautiful restoration work on old houses. I remember that he and your son Joey were best friends in Lenox. Ben speaks fondly of his years there. He doesn't have a computer and has asked me if I knew how Joey is. I'm sure he probably doesn't go by "Joey" anymore . . .

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Bob,
How far back do you go? I am from the late Wiscasset phase.

somebonus@yahoo.com

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Hi. I am new to this place, having just found it. I am an ex member, used to work in the bookstore in Lenox...I got married the summer the church fled to Baltimore. We were with Pastor Gardner for awhile, then realized the whole thing was cultic and left altogether. We still live in Lenox, but are affiliated with no church. The recovery was painful, but we are happy now and glad our marriage survived the storm. I have no knowledge of what has recently happened in baltimore...have heard vague rumors. How can I find out more?

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

There are some 6000 posts to help you get started friend. John G. was a good friend of mine, is he still in Pittsfield?

[Anonymous (4.139.90.168)]

Pray for wisdom, Google: Greater Grace World Outreach, the Baltimore Sun archives May 15, 2004 and archieved messages here.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Yes, John Gardner is still in Pittsfield, still married to adorable Grace. He went back to college and the last I heard is working for Child Protective Services. He and Grace have adopted a lot of needy kids and seem really happy.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Thanks for the archives info....glad to have found this place!

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

That's really good to hear. How about Jeff and Bonnie Brace?

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Jeff and Bonnie left the church just before we did, and are now divorced. Bonnie put herself through college and has a Master's Degree in Social Work and Jeff has remarried. They both still live in Pittsfield.

[margo (64.12.116.66)]

im glad to hear john gardner is doing well. he was always a real stand up kinda guy

[muskyrose (152.163.253.102)]

You have but to call Cordell and I arrive! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif You asked after me??? (Bonnie Brace) and yes I don't mind saying who I am have no problem with that. (For the benefit of Sam Spade who seems to be so concerned with anons even tho he is an anon himself.) RJ told me about this place didn't know it existed till today.

It is kind of bitter sweet reading about those you have know from way back. Those who have passed, those who have divorced, those who are still together.

So my question to you Cordell is this... Do I know you from way back in So Berwick days?
also if anyone is interested in communicating with me off the board here is my e-mail addy... but I warn you... no spam if you spam me I will have to put you on my couch and start analyzing you!!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

muskyrose@aol.com so how is that for being an anon sam spade???

[COG (141.157.118.147)]

Here are some more names:
Dwight Allshouse
June Murphy
Nancy Lonigro
Vicki and Pat Lynch
Chris Gearhart
Judy-Lee Grant
Dave and Chris Drago
Does anyone know where they are now?

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

COG...I'd like to know where they are too...

also
Arden LeBlanc
Pastor brad Gray
Russ Dukett
Linda Canino...heard she left, but not why
Kathy Van Doren
Will Leonard

[Anonymous (24.211.177.206)]

Dave Drago is a dynamic, fantastic Baptist Pastor in Wilmingon NC!

[COG (141.157.118.147)]

Hi RJ!!

I left you a message on board 12.
Glad to know that you are OK!
I lived in the dorm above the cafeteria when you did. I think your roommate was Chris. Mine was Nancy.

Email me and I will tell you more about me. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

jlsgee123@yahoo.com

Thanks for the info. about Dave 7:42 PM! Are he and Chris still together? Last I heard they had at least one kid.

[Anonymous (207.69.137.202)]

I'm a former member (met TBS in 1973, moved to So. Berwick in 1975) and still live in the Berkshires. I just found this thread today, so excuse the delay. Chet Farmer, a wonderful, dear friend, did die recently after battling CF longer than anyone could have believed, and he was the "genuine article" all through it. He had become very involved in the Hope Church in Lenox for the last few years, and his funeral was packed beyond capacity. He was loved by many, and will be missed. His wife, Beth, is still here, last I knew. Many former members, and some still in GGWO, attended his funeral, including Bill and Donna Star who were together at that time, and I'm pretty certain they still are.

Robin Clark is remarried and an awesome Blues Musician with a couple of great CDs,

Bob and Luann Hering are still wonderful, and serving God in many capacities, including an outreach that uses a Blues Cafe on Sunday nights (once a month); musicians, testimonies, etc. It draws a very ecclectic crowd, and brings the "Good News" where it can be heard by those who might not ever attend a church. (Isn't that the Herrings for you?)

Mike Graves: I've run into him a hand full of times over the past decade. He's living in the Boston area, I think. He always looks great (hasn't changed much, except some grey mixed in with a great head of hair!) He's still loving God, articulate, funny, and, if I'm guessing correctly, still a bit bruised and battered by the effects of TBS / GGWO. (If I'm wrong about that, Mike, I apologize, just my gut)

Peter Hill, saw him at Chet's funeral. June wasn't with him, but I believe they're still together. (Love you, Peter!)

John Gardner, yes, Pittsfield, him and Grace. I ran into him a few months ago, he's a great guy who got his Psyc. degree, and works as a counselor. They are a remarkable couple, I lost count of the kids they've had as foster parents and adopted over the years.

Sandy Crocker, was she known as Blossom way back when? If so, she's alive and well, and working as a nurse in Pittsfield.

Hope this was helpful to some. So sad that we were all in a ministry where friendships were so expendable, but for those of you still in, please believe that there is life beyond. I'll sign off with a quote that was very instrumental to me, back in the early days of leaving: "This above all, to thine own self be true, and it must needs follow, as night the day, that thou canst not then be false with any man." Shakespere

Deb

[COG (141.157.118.147)]

Deb;

Thanks so much for the info. about Pastor Farmer. He was a really neat guy. I was talking to another former TBSer the other day and she mentioned him. We were wondering how he was.

I liked your Shakespere quote!

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

RJ,
Pastor Brad Gray and his family are in Baltimore.

Will Leonard is in India

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

What ever happened to Anette Valle?

[Anonymous (24.60.234.249)]

What about Sherman Stevens? Where is he? I am a former TBS person.

[Anonymous (67.208.13.72)]

Pastor Chet Farmer was a remarkable guy. When he left the church he faced his shortcomings head on unlike Stevens. Stevens still cast aspersions on Farmer whenever his name was brought up. Chet Farmer became a source of direction for a number of people who since left until his early death last winter. To Stevens chagrin, Farmer blew the whistle on more than a few things that were not right with TBS. He communicated with a number of people, the wrong that he witnessed that Stevens refused to address.

[Anonymous (67.208.13.72)]

Where is Alvin the Indian guy ?

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

I miss Louis Hall...where is he these days? I hope he is well and happy.

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

RJ,
I've read your posts. I'm really glad that you are here.We need to hear the truth. Thank you.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Louis Hall is probably smacking some guys butt somewhere

[Anonymous (4.139.12.246)]

Or relishing and exercising the little POWER he has by SLAMMING some butts into the translation section at GGWO's seats. And lest we forget; being overbearing, obnoxious and down right rude to all who have the misfortune of requiring a translator!

What an insecure, mysoginistic,... *******!

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Nancy Lonigro is now Nancy Phelps (I believe) in GGWO (missionary in China)
Pat Lynch remarried in GGWO (first wife still around...he is the Gym teacher at GGCA)
Russ Duket is still in GGWO (teaches at the special needs school
Chris Mallick is still in GGWO...married a girl from P. Will's church in Calcutta
the twins (Rank brothers?)...still both in GGWO...one is married to P. Robinson's daughter Amory...the other is one of the worship singers
Judy Lee Grant still in GGWO in Baltimore

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Other names come to mind...
Bernadette from Rhode Island
Mark Hoza from Pittsburg
Pam Burdwood from Maine
Lynn Garand from Maine
John Clark
Vince Neukam
Kathy Powers

[Jack Leonard (65.96.56.161)]

Bernadette worked with me in Boston for many years. She was the world's best administrative secretary. She left in the early 1990s to go back to Providence RI. She adopted 2 boys and works for the public school system.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

That is great news about Bernadette...how I loved that girl! And what a great mom she must be. Such happy news! Thank you.

Roberta

[margo (149.174.164.83)]

i would like to address the person who said chet farmer went to an early death. that is so remeniscent of the teaching of carl stevens. he would preach that people would die an early death because of sin or speaking out against Gods annointed. make no bones about it.. chet farmer went home because it WAS HIS TIME TO GO. there was no early death syndrome for that man. he may have spoken out on what he knew as fact and truth but the man had NOT ONE vindictive bone in his body.

chet and i started school together in the fall of 1976 and we were inseparable friends. he lived on the campus in LEE MA and Robin Rothfeld aka Clark now O Herin the accomplished blues muscisian and i shared the upstairs apartment of an old farmhouse on center street in LEE also. we would go to school together and spend many hours in the lenox library studying the content from our same curriculum and then he would drop me off on his way back to LEE campus at the end of the day.

he never lost his sense of humor. i can remember him getting up in front of a crowd and doing stan ashby immitations right down to a T. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

when he asked Robin, his first wife to marry him, i remember we stopped for gas and he told the attendant, "im getting married!!!" he was so darn cute about it!

he loved to go to joe's diner. it was i who gave him his loan to start his taxidermy business which he was ever grateful to me for. i stayed in touch with him after the exodus to baltimore when he decided to stay in LEE. his simple words to me were.."i just know ONE thing margs and if its the only thing i know and that is that GOD loves me, and i love HIM, and for me right now that is enough.

i was sad to hear of his death, but knew he wouldnt live to be some feeble old person. he made the medical journals as be ing one of the oldest living adults with cystic fibrosis. it was his thorn in the flesh for the majority of his life but he managed to accomplish great things, touch a lot of hearts, move a lot of spirits and make many many people laugh.

the joy of the LORD truely was his strength!

so no my friends.. chet die didnt an EARLY death... he went to be with Jesus just when he was supposed to. i just wanted to make that clear.
sorry this got long. margo

[margo (149.174.164.83)]

sandy crocker by the way has made her home in syracuse new york for many many years. i recently heard from her and from what i know she is planning on moving here permenantly to florida where she recently bought a home. her daughter aimee is married and has a baby on the way if not already arrived.
m

[Anonymous (80.74.211.246)]

Pastor Jeff Laurin
http://www.labibleparle.com/lbp/bottin.html

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

This message board is REVOLUTIONARY!
For 40 years people have been "falling away", being "marked" and losing touch with long-time friends. No more.
For 40 years cover-ups were perpetuated by these tricky practices. No more.
Secrecy is over. We can communicate with eachother now. Yeah!

It is moving to read some of the names on this thread- people I remember. I hope more people enter the factnet message board, bearing with the rough spots, and make contact, even if anonomously, with old friends!

By the way, does anyone know where Vernon Duff is and how he is doing?

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Really that is what the Baltimore Sun article was about. Abusive groups have gotten away with so much because they operate like a totalitarian system but with the internet it opens the door to their little closed group. So God is using the internet!

[COG (141.157.77.172)]

I too am thrilled to have found FactNet. It is so good to read about how people are doing, even if they are still with GGWO. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
I for one am very glad to have reconnected with Roberta!
It is so good to have a place to come and reconnect with old friends. As much as I have wanted to over the years, I have not been able to bring myself to return to GGWO. I would only be going to see who is still there. I am sure that the guilt that I would be made to feel would not be worth seeing former classmates. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif I can visualize certain people swooping down to try to get me to return, or to "Just come to one service, things have really changed."
Anyhow, thanks everyone!!

Christine

[Sam Spade (201.129.18.104)]

I am so gald to hear that Chet Farmer served the Lord until his death. Somebody once told me he had become an atheist. I was foolish to even have considered the possibility.

He one promised to give me a stuffed skunk in place of two beautiful pheasants I had brought him that had inadvertantly crashed into the glass door of a client. He never delivered on the promise. Wah!

[Anonymous (65.96.153.178)]

Remember Carrot top "John Mckinnon" - he died several years ago without much fanfare. He was a friend of Bob Herring. He was a kind and gentile man who always had a smile on his face.

Remember Mike Freed and the Girl and Guy in his music group Emmanuel from Philadelphia, and Jim Sivo and Ken Alpern, and Jeff Brunty who sounded like the Doobie Brothers and his congo playing friend David.

How about other singers like David McAdams, East Wind and the "corney" but great sounding barbershop quartet music of Ron Kelley.

What ever happened to Sonny who used to co-host telephone time and Shaun Redgate, Sally Becker, Joey Rosimino, that crazy Russian Kid who reminded me of Robin Williams?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Jeff Brunty is still in Baltimore

[Anonymous (67.242.151.122)]

A couple of corrections - Judy Lee Grant is in So. Berwick now. I saw her when I was there in April and she says she is there to stay, at least for the time being.

Pastor Brad Gray ...he was teaching at GGCA but had to leave because of serious medical issues and no insurance. He is up in Mass. working and his family is in Baltimore to finish up the school year. His wife Mary is a secretary in the school office. When school is out she will be joining her husband in Mass.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Is Pastor Brad OK? Will the whole family move or will the older kids stay in Baltimore?

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Chet was a very happy man. He loved Beth and was a terrific father to her children.He faced his personal problems through counseling and then once again became an enthusiastic believer. I had occasion to speak to him a few times by phone...he was so happy, and I was happy for him. It is true he died young, but not before his time...he had lived longer with his disease than most anyone else. I loved him. He challenged me on many levels to be spiritually bold, to question and seek my answers with enthusiasm and purpose. He believed in me, understood my health issues and encouraged me to realize I was worth loving, I was worth God's time and effort and that I was his cherished friend. I miss him, but am glad he no longer suffers physically. His heart was full, he was happy with life and God...no one can ask for more. I am glad God blessed him with such happiness, for he did deserve it.

Roberta

[Sam Spade (201.129.18.104)]

Thanks again, Roberta. That is very edifying.

John McKinnon was good friend of mine - and missed. I loved all those unique, creative singing groups. While the current Balimore music is thankfully modernized and professional, Brunty is still, in my humble opinion, the only one left in Baltimore with that spark of creativity we had in the past. It's all to subdued.

Joe Rusamisno was at Convention last year. Think he is still running a hair salon in upstate NY.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Sorry to hear of the passing of John McKinnon. His was a unique charm...wish I had seen more of him.

Roberta

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Lucille Carnell

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Donna and Wendell Williams

[Anonymous (4.139.9.160)]

Are Mel Linton and his lovely wife Carmen still there? They are such nice people; I hope they've left this awful duplicity!

As I recall there was no one more faithful to "Pastor."

[MuskyRose (205.188.117.20)]

Does anyone know Pat Deberry or Irene Hubert Loretta Young?


>>>>>>>-----Bonnie

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

well david tomb is in baltimore away from the church, john levoy is still with his biy friend, where is pastor casity or scott myers, where is michael shown hennisy,keith hancock,donna stevens, stemy, kim poston,

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

i just saw carl stevens at city cafe,downtown baltimore, someone told me he is selling art now, i never knew he painted

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

Lucille Carnel passed away a few years ago.
God bless her precious sister Lois Duff...

[Anonymous (4.139.9.160)]

Isn't Pat Dewberry in Hollywood? Thought she played the role of Gollum in The Lord of the Rings Two Towers.

[margo (64.12.116.66)]

does anyone one know what happened to jennifer levy? if you do and she is contactable please tell her that tom rusavage asks for her frequently and would like to get in touch. thanks m

[margo (64.12.116.66)]

someone on a new thread mentioned how many messages are collectively on these boards, and further went on to s a y there is nothing to show for it. i personally beoive that this thread has been bery helpful and theraputic to many who have been out of touch and also helpful in connecting lives who were so closely intertwined in the past and just fell apart. i just wanted to say... its not all for nothing and thank all of you for keeping, for the most part, your comments and inquiries on the subject of the subtitle and for there being no vindictiveness name calling and offensive behavior such as is other threads .
margo

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Pastor Cassidy left years and years and years ago. He got off on this thing about how anything was OK to do as long as you were doing it "in love" and had numerous affairs with young women. Of course he and Joyce are long divorced. He really did get bizarre in his thinking

[Chris Brown (141.157.99.92)]

Margo, she was married a few years ago and lives here in Baltimore. Her last name is Zurrin. I don't know if you remember me from years ago- Chris Longe.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Were you there to hear Pastor Cassidy's classes? He taught "follow your heart" using David and the Psalms. I for one, am glad I finally listened to what my heart told me about the cultic bent to the ministry...following my heart was a good thing.

As for affairs. Hmmmm....with all the misconduct reported, known about and suspected, isn't it rather odd to say HE was "off". I mean...how can one be "off" in a ministry that has a foundation based upon the false doctrine of pastoral authority and other non-biblical doctrines. I always thought Mac was treated badly by men who had no right or reason to be throwing stones from their glass pulpits.

Roberta

[margo (64.12.116.66)]

yes of course i remember you chris. i spent much time at your home with you and ron and you beautiful little daughter babysitting for you. she must be a real little lady now. i remember making tiaras and star sceptors out of tin foil wih her and running around your house like glenda the witch of the north saying" are you a good witch or a bad witch" hahahaaaaaaa
if you are in touch with jennifer please do tell her tommy rusavage is interested in touching base. he has his own businesses, owns several incom properties, travels extensively and as crazy as we all thought he was and (still is but more mellow now) he did end up staying in touch with me all these yrs, matter of fact i talked to him for about an hour this evening. he is on cape cod. are you and ron still together? how old is your son now?
margo

[Chris Brown (141.157.99.92)]

Margo,

Ron died of cancer in 1998 and I am in Baltimore and remarried now. E-mail me cab8849 at yahoo dot com

Chris

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Roberta,
You can be off with God no matter what ministry you are in, good or bad, if your standard for what is off is the Word. And having affairs is definitely "off" and a personal decision, not to be blamed on the ministry

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

It also depends upon how the Word is preached, interpreted and lived. Mac was no more "off" with the Word then those who were in charge of the ministry. I remember the spies sent to his classroom, I recall being questioned by a pastor I knew was flirting and making out with female students on the "soul winning blitz busses" while his wife was pregnant. That is knowledge I have first hand...pardon the pun. I think the context is as important as a legalistic view of The Word. The way the Bible was preached was as off as those who were preaching it. Mac was no worse than any one of the men who threw him out.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Even the unsaved know adultery is wrong. Whether he was worse or better than anyone else, or whether the bible was preached correctly is beside the point. He was a grown man and knew better

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

Again, does anyone know how Vernon Duff is?
How about Scott Markush.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Vernon married an older lady and they left the church and worship elsewhere.

[Anonymous (4.139.15.13)]

Has anyone seen the poster in front of MBC&S which reads, "COME HERE TO GO THERE."

How's this for a twist?

COME to Greater Grace to GO to another church

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

You are a very unforgiving and uncompassionate person, but why? Mac was off, he messed up, he paid the price and I hope somewhere he is ok with God. It is possible to live in a state of confusion and stumble, we all did things then, especially then when the messages were strange, the actions of many pastors ranged from fondling students, stealing, covering up sinning pastors and bilking heiresses....etc etc...Have you never stumbled bigtime? Have you never been caught up in a vortex of hypocracy and lies sold as truth? Of course he was wrong...there were few at the time there in Lenox who wern't in one way or another. Even grown men can know better and sin anyway. I'd say ask Pastor Stevens but he lives in so much self imposed self denial that I think he believes his own lies by this time...if Chet were alive he could tell you how easy it became to fail, fall and be kicked out by the men who were doing worse. It was a very confusing time then. Compassion is a Godly virtue. I have compassion for Mac, for Chet, for even Carl Stevens when he can face the inner lies and comes to himself again. Love begets compassion. Legalism and black and white thinking...what the ministry preaches...leaves no room for the wounded saved sinner to find healing...they are just summarily booted. That is not love, that is not God. And that is exactly why I left the ministry...

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Yeah. I saw it today. I went through a whole bunch of alternatives:

Come here to go to intellectual prison.

Come here to go to the laundromat of the mind.

Come here to go to the spiritual deprivation tank.

Come here to go to hell - just remember, it's not the heat - it's the humidity.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

RJ,
Seeing as how you don't know me, don't presume from reading a couple of posts that I am an unforgiving and uncompassionate person. It is not unforgiving or uncompassionate to judge a lifestyle...the Word of God does that. You seem to be saying that because so many people were sinning at the time that it made it more excusable. How can you be in such a state of confusion that you don't know it's wrong to cheat on your wife, and continue in it for years with multiple partners?
Everyone jumps all over Pastor Stevens and Pastor Paul for their affairs, which were absolutely wrong, but when it comes to people who have left the ministry, then it is different because they were decieved and confused and we have to have compassion. Pastor Mac continued in it as long as Pastor Stevens did, for years after he left. Sin is sin. And just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it less sinful.
I think the Word has the same standard for everyone, whether they are in or out of GG

[Anonymous (4.139.15.13)]

My decision to leave GGWO was the result of a culmination of many factors; some of which have been communicated on this board. However, the final straw came when I decided to count the number of times the word "Pastor" was utilized in a one minute time span during a sermon...

...ELEVEN TIMES!

I don't recall Jesus Christ wearing a bad toupe in prints of him at Calvary; do you?

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

10:37 pm

I believe that Roberta is stating quite clearly that the issue is confession and genuine repentance. Who currently at GGWO has confessed and genuinely repented?

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

I am not saying anything is excusable. It is possible to believe the lies, to copy the lifestyles of others when it is happening everywhere you look. I well remember. You misjudge me and I perhaps have misjudged you...I do not excuse Mac's actions, and if he is or is not "in the ministry" makes no difference...at least to me. You also must not presume to know my heart either. I do think, as I have said in other posts, that Paul needs understanding, help, compassion....it is not right deny compassion to the saved. They need to be understood. How can we pray with power for those who stumble if we don't see the whole of their situation and understand as a fellow human how one can fail? I care very much that Paul be loved and helped. I wanted the same for Mac and Chet, but such was not given. In those days it seemed that a pastor or anyone could get away with a lot, especially if you were inner circle. It happened constantly. Had Mac been more secretive he likely would have been left alone. I have never understood why Christans in legalistic churches are less loving to their own... I didn't know about Paul's problems until I came to this board in the last few days. But I have prayed for him and all involved since then. I hope he can recover. I think it seems wrong to expect more from Paul and nothing from his father. I don't hate Carl either, I simply want him to someday come to his senses. I will not convince you, I realize this. Just wanted to say how I have been praying and feeling. I think we can agree to disagree, yes?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

RJ,
Actually I do agree with this last post of yours

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

Thanks RJ !
Thanks 205.188 !

for keeping civil while retaining your passion
for what you believe. I learned from your dialoge
that
this is one of the few things this posting board is about, being able to disagree without killing each other or condemning each other to hell as we so often saw from stevens and other pastors.

[Valefor (202.63.181.192)]

ALVIN THE GUY FROM India left ggwo he does not attend this church any more because he had some differences with CARL SILVA .Alvin Had a heart attack recently.

[margo (149.174.164.83)]

rj
this thread is for finding people who have left either GG or TBS
if you have other issues such as Pastoral adulteries, their place in Biblical doctrines and its defense maybe start a new thread with that topic. we all have been soooooooooo good about just finding each other on this thread i would hate to see the topic changed so drastically. this wasnt started as a forum for doctrinal discussion on peoples indescretions.. it is a real simple place for peope to meet and reaquaint.
no harm meant. just want to stay on the subject.


in not trying to be the boss of you or of this message board, but it seems there are a lot who appreciate this as a place to come and reconnect.
thanks
margo

[pop (80.74.209.107)]

Mike and Marla Klika
Are they still with gg?
God bless them!

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

who remembers daphne and warner?
sandy soriano who originally came from steve stratos ministry in springfield?
where are shawn and melody redgate, and why did they leave, if anyone knows...
m

[Cara (64.12.117.20)]

Shawn and Mel left the ministry shortly after being in Baltimore. I believe when Shawn saw the whole scenario of guns and bodyguards starting all over again, he said this was not a safe environment for his children. They moved to Falwell's church/college and have been there ever since!

I remember Sandy Soriano, I believe she left the church a long time ago!

[SJ (64.12.117.20)]

I remember Sandy Soriano too. She got married and has been gone a long time

[MuskyRose (205.188.117.20)]

Anyone know anything about
Bruce and Nancy Brown
Russ and Nancy Ahlquist
Keith and Sandy redimarker
David and Sharon lash
Wayne and Janie Goldworthy
Barbara Brooks
these are So Berwick people.

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

Saw Russ and Nancy this weekend, they were visiting Amy. They are doing great. Still in S. Berwick

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

"not trying to be the boss of you or of this message board, but it seems there are a lot who appreciate this as a place to come and reconnect."

Sure...I guess.

[TS (216.99.185.50)]

Can someone help me out here? I remember a Pastor Brad from Lenox, but the name Gray doesn't sound familiar. This pastor was very handsome and well liked and had a very pretty wife, and I believe a small son then. I don't recall ever seeing him in Baltimore the times I came. Is this the same Brad, or does anyone know what became of him?

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

TS, perhaps you are thinking about Brad Conant. I do not know what became of him.

Roberta

[margo (205.188.117.20)]

if "you guess"... rj then you sure are welcome to start your own thread with your own comments about anything you want.
read some of the messags. they clearly speak for themselves. i am not here to split hairs with you or anyone else... its just that when a titled board gets off the subject a lot of thin skinned-ness begins to happen and people start making offensive comments and attacking each other. there are plenty of other forums for that fodder.
the title of this one is not arguing doctine... but where are they?
simple like that.

[margo (205.188.117.20)]

who remembers kevin toole? michael mcgoldrick? chris and karen peyser... what are they doing?

[margo (205.188.117.20)]

sorry rj.. its Where did they go... excuse my error

[John Krainis (207.5.239.219)]

Yo, someone mentioned East Wind - I was known as "Paul" and played banjo. I haven't kept in touch with the others, but if they materialize we could do a "reunion tour" like the other aging hipster bands. At least we'd look better than Aerosmith...

It's great to see new people posting and connecting.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Eastwind and Margo sang at my Lenox wedding! At least I think it was you Margo.. did you sing with Janet Stanton? the song was "looking more and more like Jesus"... ring a bell?

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

I am so thankful to God for the influx of truth that has taken place. I am grateful to all of you who are telling your stories.

My concern is that with all the threads and considering some of the titles, newcomers may not see something that could have tremendous significance for them - something that could speak to their hearts and help them in a way that they have yet to be helped.

I think that it would be incredibly beneficial to have some of these first-hand, honest, telling posts made on the Main Board thread.

Keep writing.

[margo (205.188.117.20)]

yes 152.163!! janet and i sang together and the song you mentioned was actually one i wrote!! my what a good memory you have... i hardly even remember the words to that song!!

[margo (205.188.117.20)]

hey does anyone know what happened to lynn ameral (sp?) she married an italianish last name guy but his first name is rick. she had a little girl by the name of gina?

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Anyone know where I can find Mark Bell or Bill Starr?

somebonus@yahoo.com

[cara (152.163.253.102)]

"You're looking more and more like Jesus everyday... can't understand it but I know it's true, you're looking more like Jesus in everything you say... lol..well, it went something like... I loved that song Margo!

Thanks Cara

[Anonymous (165.247.92.222)]

Brad Conant is remarried and recently returned to Baltimore. His son is in Baltimore as well. His x, Tammy, remarried and recently moved to Isreal.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Yo, Margo...hello? I wasn't agruing your point. Everything is going to be okay. Really, it is. Honest. I fully, u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d. *LOL*

[TS (216.99.185.50)]

Yes, Yes, Yes...........it was Brad Conant I was thinking of. I knew it as soon as Roberta said the name. Now my memory is coming back and I know who Tammy is too. They both go pretty far back in GGWO. Their son from Mass. must be grown by now, but didn't they also have a younger daughter together that Tammy has custody of? I can picture her in the mothers room with a little girl toddler that looked just like her and she was not remarried at the time. Thanks, Roberta and Anon 165.247! Also, did they both remarry within the ministry and is Brad still a pastor somewhere? I'd appreciate any news on this.

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

muskyrose-
The So. Berwick people you mentioned are all still there except for Barbara Brooks who was married 10 or so years ago to Bryant Michaud. They have been in Baltimore. She is still investing in women's lives and they are gems.
The older Redimarkers are retired and live with their younger son I think, maybe in SC. Their son Jay and his family are still at TBS So Ber.

I wonder if any of those branch churches will disaffiliate soon...

[COG (70.16.28.242)]

I am so thankful for this board. It is great to see the names of people that I went to school with and hear about how they are doing.

Was anyone here in Lenox in '85?

Did anyone work at Avalon, which later became Hillcrest Ed. Center?

[Anonymous (4.139.15.212)]

Where are Bill & Margo Klein?

Are they attending P. Paul's church in Aberdeen?

If so, why?

Bill, you are an astute businessman, did you happen to see something unethical in the handling of finances at homebase?

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

CARA
about your post of 10:43 am today,
a few clarifications.
Redgates no longer attend Falwells church but live in Forest, Virginia.

Shaun was close to the trial in "87 and saw what was going on. One of the reasons for moving.
But Shaun also decided to get a real degree from an accredited college and did so through Falwells/Liberty univ.
Shaun, being no dummy was NOT at liberty to come out and say to his wife Melody: "your dad is a wacko, were out of here!"
He was a bit more creative, and used his upward mobility/getting a degree approach with Melody.
Carl even helped pay for his son in laws degree, and to keep Shaun grateful that Shaun would not talk about everything he saw and knew about Carl.
This is standard mode of operating for Carl as you may now understand from reading other posts.
Chet Farmer was in close contact with Shaun for a short while after Shaun left in summer of 88 to get his degree.
Carl was not fond of Shaun but knew how to play him. Shaun was not fond at all of Carl, but used Carls offer of ministry money to pay for his degree and quietly step away from the whole ministry mess.
Shaun had been close freinds at one time with Elizabeth and Jonas Doveydenas and had a lot of conflict about the trial.
Brother in Law Paul (aka pastor paul) was very jeolous and resentful of Shaun for taking his dads 2nd in command slot at Telephone Time now known as Grace Hour. Paul lost no opportunity to castigate Shauns reputation behind his back.
They still act freindly on the surface on those few occasions during holidays when they see each other, but there is a lot of dislike just beneath the surface, you can feel it.
Shaun was the first to remove his own hair weave back in lenox, before most people knew he was balding. He was nowhere near as vain as his Father in law, Carl.

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

continuation;

Melody redgate, no dummy either knows how to play her daddy, cause if she doesn't she isn't getting a penny of that ministry generated money when he dies.

[Cara (64.12.117.20)]

Thank you for updating and clarifying. I am glad they got away...

[Gary Labbe (63.170.71.99)]

HI,
It's great to hear of old, long lost friends and aquaintances! My time in, and departure from, Lenox was very negative and painful. But why did so many of us stay for so long? One of the reasons was that there were so many truly wonderful people there.
I ran into Paul Krainis(East Wind banjo player) about three years ago at a Luis Palau evangelistic crusade in Portland, Maine. He seemed to be doing very well and following the Lord. (No longer involved with TBS)
The last time I saw Werner and Daphne Mishke was about 11 years ago. They were doing missionary work. (No longer involved with TBS)
God bless you guys,
Gary (and Heather, too)

[KDuhamel (24.60.78.215)]

Gary,

It's so great to see your post. Remember me--your faithful CrossRoads secretary? How are you and Heather? I'd love to talk with you. Please e-mail me.

-Karen Sanders (Duhamel)
duhamelkm@comcast.net

[Anonymous (24.60.234.249)]

Pastor Sherman Stevens? His wife Millie?

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

hi gary
please say hello to heather for me. she will know me from the cape. margaret royals.aka margo

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

cara!! youre good! who would have ever thunk it! someone actually remembering a song i worte back off those yrs ago. you are really something else. youre my "make me feel good girl "of the day!!!
m

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

RJ

as they say back in the islands where i lived from 1988 to 1999... everyt'ing be eirie"!

(translation: everything is alright)

[Heather (63.170.71.99)]

Margo ofcourse I remember you very well. Tall, dark long brown hair and sophisicated. We used to laugh so much at Chet's house in Harwich and did you go to the Demeo's Bible Studies?
Life was simple and good before TBS, and life is good now. Did you go to any of the Jesus festivals with us? We had about 100 people from the Cape who loved God and it was so fun until the Fatal Exodus to Lenox. I'd love to talk with you. Email me: ming@truevine.net

[Anonymous (165.247.83.236)]

"but didn't they also have a younger daughter together that Tammy has custody of?"

- yes, sorry, forgot to mention her. She is with Tammy and her 2nd husband, Izzy (spelling?) in Isreal. Izzy is part of ggwo.

"Also, did they both remarry within the ministry and is Brad still a pastor somewhere? I'd appreciate any news on this."

So, yes, Tammy did remarry in the ministry and Pastor Brad is ggwo baltimore with his 2nd wife. I know nothing about her.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Actually Brad and Tammy did not have a daughter together. Tammy had her daughter when she was split up from Brad, and he is not the father

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

heather
you have mail

[Anonymous (4.139.6.91)]

Where did they go?

Oh yeah, they're following "Pastor" into the bathroom at GGWO.

What's with the "masses" that follow Stevens into the john? Does he need help wiping or what?

Maybe Roland picks him and sets him on the toitie.

[Anonymous (4.139.6.91)]

"Pastor" is that Bema or Bemas?

[MARGO (152.163.253.102)]

beamERRRRRRRRRRRR

[Anonymous (207.7.204.244)]

"He was a bit more creative, and used his upward mobility/getting a degree approach with Melody.
Carl even helped pay for his son in laws degree, and to keep Shaun grateful that Shaun would not talk about everything he saw and knew about Carl.
This is standard mode of operating for Carl as you may now understand from reading other posts."

Sounds like the standard mode for Shaun too!
Redgate learned a lot from the old man. The thing that you are telling us is that Betsy paid for Shaun's education. Wonder if he ever thanked her.
Seems to me, he's the same as the rest of the lot. Don't worry, he'll be back for the funeral to share in the spoils.

[S.T. (216.37.186.185)]

Does anybody know if Pastor Adam nad his wife left the ministry? Is this really true? If so how many people will come home from overseas for convention? Well we shall soon see. Right

S.T.

[H (198.70.0.62)]

Margo,
Here's a short list of the Cape Cod group.
Nan Glidden
Chrissy Demeo
John Demeo
Chet Farmer
Peter Hill
Stu Franklin
Judy Jordan
Buddy Pastor Louie Demeo
Bill Wescott
Margaret Royals
Robin Rothfield
Heather Smith Labbe'
Rita Trudeau
Joey Hanson
Bob Moore
Robin Farmer
Lynne Moore
Bill Trafidlo alias "Stick" the surfer
Cynthia Muto
Eleanor Muto
The 1970's Jesus Movement was the real thing.
All but 1 are still serving God. Two have passed away.

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Does anyone know how to get in touch with Joni Fortin? I lost contact with her about 8 months ago.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Does anyone know where Louis Hall is? Is he still in the ministry?

Roberta

[Anonymous (4.139.18.208)]

Try Carl S (the nephew) topic board; that's for homosexuals.

[Anonymous (4.139.15.250)]

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord; that is My name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."

[Bob Brinton (151.203.183.208)]

EF, I find it curious that most posters here refuse to use their names. It tends to make me question the validity of what they have to say. John Gardner was caught in a conspiracy from both above and below. He eventually left Berkshire Bible Church in Lee, which started out from those who didn't go to Baltimore. He is out of ministry and not too happy about what happened and what it did to him and his family. Bob and Lu Herring are my best friends and still live in Lee. They continue to minister to the hurting and reach lost people. Lu is very active musically. They are doing very well spiritually. The Tooles also still live in Lee, and I see them once in a while. We are not spiritually disconnected or bitter, but we have learned to be careful about who we trust and how. John is bitter. Pray for him. Love, Bob

[Bob Brinton (151.203.183.208)]

Margo, Lynn's married name is Cataldo. They're still married and living in Lenoxdale. Bob

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

bob
if you see the herrings the tooles or the cataldos tell them i was asking for them... margaret royals... aka margo now.
bob and luann were always great friends to me. they were the first people i met when i visited TBS in so berwick in 1975 before i decided to go to bible school. carlene toole and i went to kindergarten together all the way up through seniors in high school.. we were great friends. i even lived with her at her parents the last two yrs of high school.
i think i also know you but i cant place the face with the name.
sorry to hear about john gardner. some of us never grow out of the "bitter" stage of healing. what a shame http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

where is sheila and willie werren?

[TS (216.99.185.50)]

Re: "Actually Brad and Tammy did not have a daughter together. Tammy had her daughter when she was split up from Brad, and he is not the father."

Now I'm getting confused. Who is then? Was there another marriage (or "partnership") in between or is this leading to another insider story?

[Gary Labbe (63.170.71.99)]

Bob,
Thanks for using your name!
Way back in the late 70's in Lenox you and your wife were in a singing group with Brenda Baril. Right? I can't remember the name. Was it the Finished Work? (My wife and I spent some good times with Dean and Brenda in Florida in the mid to late 80's).
Anyway, seeing your name and remembering your singing group brought a rush of memories from that time. More important, along with that seemed to come the fresh realization of how many hundreds and hunreds of people we worshipped alongside, ate with in the cafeteria, etc., most who have probably left "the ministry." And since most people's leaving is something quiet and done in shamed isolation, we never know of it.
It would be great to see more people use their names in these postings.
We many not have ever spoken during our time in Lenox so you may not remember me. But the next time you see Bob and Luanne Herring, please say hello to them from Gary and Heather. Also, if you ever see Tom Toole, give him a big hello!! We were in the same dorm for my first year in Lenox. I roomed with Dickie LaFlamme. Tom was a great guy.
God Bless,
Gary
PS Glad you made it out and are doing well.

[margo (152.163.253.102)]

what theheck ever happened to nan glidden?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

TS,
The father was Tammy's boyfriend at the time

[Gary Labbe (198.70.0.62)]

Bob Brinton,
Heather just made me realize that it wasn't Tom Toole that was in my dorm. It was Kevin Toole.
Where is he, now? Do you know?
Gary

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Bob Brinton,

Some posters are still involved with "the ministry" in some way. There are many who are in the process of leaving or trying to get someone they love out.

[Shannon (64.12.117.20)]

Wow!! Just got caught up on this board!! It took some time to read everything and in that time I have laughed and cried. Did Danny Quirk really pass?? His daughter was one of my best friends in high school. How could I reach her to tell her I am so sad to hear her dad passed. And is Sherm really a pastor? WOW! And Bonnie is that you?? My moms best friend?? I have so many questions? And Alvin from India just the thought of him made me smile, he spent alot of time at our house-my mom is a fabulous cook and oh how he loved to come eat her cookin! Sorry I've just gone on and on, the memories are flooding! Thanks all of you!

Shannon aka Sha

[Cara (152.163.253.102)]

Margo,

Nan and Mark, Sarah and Heather left the church in Baltimore years ago. I heard they are with Rick Knapp in Pa. now.

Nan was a smart and artistic individualist. But for years a profound Pastor worshiper. I am glad they got away! I miss her!

Cara

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

64, That is so true. Many are just seeing the light, but this is such a process.. the exiting of GG. Many are just beginning the process. SJ reminds me of those I knew a few months back, questioning some of the obvious stuff but unable to look at the bigger picture. It is so important for those just beginning the process to receive grace from us that are further along. The complexity of what we have given ourselves over to is very overwhelming at first. It takes alot of courage to even admit there is a problem with this ministry.

I also agree that many have family members still involved. I see them as hostages, the leadership is well-versed in dividing families. They hold so many of our loved ones captive. It is a web of deceit and complexity that is hard to remove ourselves from.

Thank God for this forum!

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Bob Brinton wrote: "John Gardner was caught in a conspiracy from both above and below."

Could you explain this, Bob? John and I were very good friends. He was always blatantly honest to a fault as I remember him.

Bob also wrote:
"I find it curious that most posters here refuse to use their names. It tends to make me question the validity of what they have to say."

Part of the point of this board, Bob, is to preserve anonymity, in order that there are no repercussions for those who may still be inside GGWO, and for those of us without we may be able to offer help to those who are in need without similar problems.

somebonus@yahoo.com

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

where is pastor casity,

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

john and ann lloyd are in denver pastoring a church, they took the position, so he left that ministry where shaun and melidy were at,

[Anonymous (68.38.195.85)]

where is tim carnel,raberta martiluci, gary labey, i used to go to that bible study they had in lee, itwas nice but so secretive. i heard tht rabertas sister married a guy tht later became gay but not sure if that is a fact. i do hope all are well after that house break up, it was so hard to deal with

[T. (216.99.185.50)]

Pastor Adam and his wife are still here and very much involved. They recently attended the Grace Hour banquet.

Arden LeBlanc is a widow, lives in Towson, and attends (at least) the Sunday eve. service. She sits on the left side (if you face the stage) in the back.

Pastor DOES still drive.

In ref to Tammy/Pastor Brad, and I know I am probably overstepping myself here - kind of feel like I'm pulling teeth - but I really do have a valid reason for asking. I'm just not at liberty to say yet. Did the "boyfriend" in between husbands happen to have a family of his own and that's why they didn't get together? Oh, heck, I'm just gonna be bold and ask WHO. Forgive me but I am trying to make sense of something now that really hurt and affected quite a few people at the time and there is just no delicate way to ask.

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

To: Gary Labbe re: your post at 11:53 am

Last I heard, Kevin Toole was in PA. a part of Dave Houts GGWO church after he left Knapps church which apparently isnt that far away.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

I don't know where Carl S (the nephew) is at the moment, but his art work is on display at the City Cafe in downtown Baltimore. The paintings are beautiful.

[Gary Labbe (198.70.0.62)]

Hi to 68.38.195.85,
This is Gary Labbe'.
Yes, sadly the Bible study in Lee was secretive and very strange. The entire house and "ministry" was. It was even weirder and more abusive than what was happening on the Lenox campus. It was far worse. It was a nightmare. I'm so sorry that so many other people were hurt, also.
To make a long story very short, we did manage to make it out alive. Heather and I are doing great. We haven't seen Tim Carnell in over 20 years.
I'm wondering who you might be. Is this Joyce?
I'll give more of the story on another message board.
Later,
Gary

[MuskyRose (205.188.117.20)]

Shannon aka Sha, yes it's me Sweetie. Glad you found this place and I hope you can get the answers your looking for. Here is my AOL e-mail if you want to talk. MuskyRose@aol.com

Love you Sweetie, Haven't seen you in ages, Bye the way TC is doing great!
((((((((Shannon- lick, lick)))))))))))))

>>>>>>>>------Bonnie

[Shannon (152.163.253.102)]

Bonnie-I had to get a papertowel, thanks for the licks!!! Ha-Ha! I knew it had to be you-this place has been amazing in many ways, just knowing there are others who have gone through the same thing (I avoid all the nasty stuff), I have found a sense of something I can't even explain, something I've tried to reconcile; but has been locked away for a long time just so I could go on with life. I think there are others like me! I got on as soon as I saw the article on the front page of the Sun.

We'll be up this summer to visit, mom will have to plan something. Isin't she amazing for helping with TC!! I am on my knees thanking God everyday for her and His plan! Miss you!! Thanks for always being there for us and our mom, I mean that from the bottom of my heart! Sorry I'll use your email next time instead of the public forum!

Shannon

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

No Shannon, That was wonderful and real to read! It is so wonderful that we are connecting with those we really loved and were such a huge part of our life. It is long overdue and must be really freaking out the current leadership. They stole so much from us! But the re-connect shows us all no matter what "they" did, God imparted His goodness in spite of Carl and his cohorts.

Each genuine connection expressed here is a slap in the face to Carl and the god he serves!

[Shannon (152.163.253.102)]

Anon 149, 5:19-Thanks, you are right God is the One that is all powerful and the love that He instilled in us is what remains!

You also expressed what I couldn't say-they stole from us! Or at least thats how it feels! They stole time, love, tears, family, emotions, friends, etc.

I hope we can all keep re-connecting!

Shannon

[Bob Brinton (151.203.183.208)]

Gary Labbe, I remember you and Heather both. You had a Mahler tee shirt, and it wasn't till years later that I learned to like his music. I grew up with classical music, but hadn't grown in that particular direction. You've got it right about the singing group, and the name was the Finished Work. My brother David played piano with us. I see Tom Toole from time to time, but haven't seen Kevin in years. I'm uncertain where he is. I also used to usher. That never was really my thing though. I hated saving seats for digniteries and never could understand why we counted how many people attended services. At least we didn't have to keep track of which ones. Bob

[Bob Brinton (151.203.183.208)]

Cordell, I understand about people still in GG or who have loved ones in it being hesitant to give their names. It just confuses me that such a high percentage of the posters might have that as their reason; but I suppose it's possible.
Pastor Gardner did not toe the party line. He wasn't interested in parroting the messages from Baltimore. He believed in teaching us the truth. Many of his messages were very good indeed. He was not properly supported by the pastors 'under' him and we later heard that he was talked about in less than glowing terms in the raps in Baltimore. Eventually he decided that he'd like to disaffiliate and the church was supposedly going to vote on it. The bigwigs from Baltimore (Lewis and Schaller) came up and we had a couple of discussions that were open to the whole church. Part of what came out was that it's okay to lie to us if it's for 'our own good'. Stevens, of course had demonstrated that by the way he would exagerrate and twist things to drive a good point home. You would have been proud of LuAnn and others who openly challenged these ministry heavyweights. In the end it didn't matter what the church wanted. We were told to vote with our feet. John didn't feel it was right for him to stay together with those of us who left; but we left as a group, and that was a safer way to do it. We had each other's support. John has pretty much isolated himself from us, though we have visited him at times. He was the pastor that was willing to stay up here when seemingly everyone wanted to go south. We owe a lot to him. He helped wean us from the sick cow. Many people I highly respect and love are still in GG. I couldn't stay in good conscience. I even sent Stevens a book by an unsaved French journalist called 'Flight from the Truth'. It was a good book that pretty much nailed it. I never heard from him. I'm sure he read it carefully. But you know, really this isn't what my spiritual life is about. We were taught a lot of good things by Stevens and others. We haven't thrown those away. But we do need to really look at the Word and pray and allow the Spirit to show us reality and how we're supposed to fit. If we can help others to become free and live in the grace God has for them, then it's worth the effort. The organizations and groups of people are not what matters. It's about individuals and walking in personal obedience. Love, Bob

[bob (66.30.49.45)]

My bet is that most of the anonomous posters are entering this message board aware that, if leadership knew they are here, there would be trouble.
Man, GG is freaky! Hitman wannabes strutting around like Gotti punks.

[SJ (64.12.117.20)]

To 152.163.253.102,
In your 2:02 pm post today you wrote:

"this is such a process.. the exiting of GG. Many are just beginning the process. SJ reminds me of those I knew a few months back, questioning some of the obvious stuff but unable to look at the bigger picture."

Actually, I have been out of GG for several years (after being in it for a long long time), and I do see the bigger picture, more than you realize. I was deeply hurt by situations and people in the ministry. But I do not automatically agree with something posted just because it is anti-GG. There are some things I just do not agree with and do not believe are true.
One of the major problems at GG was that someone who did not believe as everyone else did was thought to be "blinded" or "deceived" or just not as advanced . On this message board we are free to have our own minds and agree or disagree. So just because I don't always go along with the majority opinion does not mean I am blind or don't see the big picture

SJ

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

bob,
re: your 6:54 pm post is exactly on target.

"Colonel" as likes to be addressed or Tony Self
stakes his whole life on being known as "pastors bodyguard" He has no stated purpose other than that as he will admit.
He carries a handgun, and loves to display it or his knives.Talk about middle age men trying to cope with a prolonged mid life crisis.
He would freebase viagra if it would help, but he found his own little phallic symbols.
He falls into the catagory you describe

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

bob;
your 6;54pm post is bizarre but true as I can attest.
"Colonel" Selph as he likes to be addressed stakes his whole identity on being known as "pastors bodyguard"
He finds it exciting as he once admitted to a number of ggwo brownshirts.
He carries a handgun in a holster that he loves to strut with his 350 pounds of belly.
The other day outside of the day school he saw fit to brandish his knife for all who may be impressed.
This is a 50 year old guy going through a mid life crisis, and he's had a few I understand.

He would freebase viagra if it would help.
Instead he flashes his own little phallic symbols in the form of guns and knives.
Just what pastor likes.
He fits into the catagory you describe.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

T, if you happen to know Arden...I suppose this sounds crazy...but would you tell her Roberta Croteau was asking about her? I loved her like a sister when we were in Lenox and I have thought of her so often since leaving. I never knew how to connect with her.

Thanks in advance in you can.

Roberta