good pastors gone bad but look good

[knowsall2well (141.157.87.67)]

Anyone got anything for this topic of convo?

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

Why don't you just start a victim of the week thread? Then at least everyone will know who they are suppose to lambaste. Give me a break this is ridiculous.

D.a

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

Hands down one of the top five the leading contenders in this catagory should be
.... drumroll please.....
- Skip(call me pastor!!)Wood

[Sam Spade (200.39.208.243)]

I vote for myself on this one.

Let me go trash myself for a good while......

[Anonymous (64.12.116.66)]

John Bilowith loves to act as pastors little gestapo. It seems to excite him.
Though he's been humbled a few times by those who see him coming, he just doesn't get it.
Had he been old enough at the time he would have fit right in under the Jim Jones ministry before things became so obvious.

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

Sam spade,

Thak you for that one. Maybe it will help to remind us all to look at the sinner in the mirror before we point fingers at anyone else.

D.A

[Anonymous (67.208.13.105)]

To Anon 64.12.116.66

FYI; Pastor Bilowith
It is a fact that before john came to the bible speaks in lenox, he graduated from the Pgh. Art Institute about 1979 with a certificate in
Fashion Design or designing womens clothing.
Which makes one wonder if all his, bullying and macho act is just a cover for his interest in womens clothing.
Is he one of those guys that wears his wifes bra and panties under his clothing to unwind sexually?
Sue Bilowith check your drawers.

[Anonymous (4.139.6.215)]

Perhaps Pastor Billowith can help Barbara Stevens out...

After all, he DOES have a background in fashion design!

[Anonymous (4.139.18.122)]

Wait...he receive his degree in the lates 70's...
on second thought maybe this is a bad idea...

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Johnny doesn't need his wife's panties. He already had them...and he couldn't find his way out of a paper bag, so don't suggest that he help Barbara. Good grief

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

So Pastor definitely doesn't belong on this board. Maybe he can get an extreme makeover. Unfortunately they can't do anything about his insides. He is evil personified.

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

What is this thread, "Queer eye for the pastor guy?"

[Anonymous (4.139.15.250)]

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord; that is My name! And My glory I will not give to another, nor My praises to graven images."

[Anonymous (216.183.184.131)]

Scott Robinson after he gave his soul to Carl.

[Anonymous (4.139.12.57)]

Does anybody else out there think the practices of prayer are bizarre at GGWO?

Here are a few examples of concerns and observations:

1. Pastor Lou gets up every service and recites his rote "grocery list" of needs:

ALWAYS "Pastor" first.
GGWO/GGCA needs
Sometimes for our government and public schools; SOMETIMES.
But NEVER for the congregation EVER!

2. What's with Pastor Lou's whispered and veiled threats of "I'm listening." The inference is "SHUT UP!"

3. Why does Pastor Paul "pray" with his eyeballs WIDE OPEN and crack jokes while praying? How sacrilegious and inappropriate.

4. Lastly, a move of the Holy Spirit aka Holy Ghost apparently gets 10 minutes maximum so that "Pastor" can get up and ramble on and on unintelligibly. At times the anointing would be so sweet after worship and "Pastor" would get up and tell one of his stupid jokes and "shatter" the presence of God.

Just wondering if anyone else shared these concerns or has observed these things presently or in the past.

Thanks!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Good Questions 4.139.12.57

And no these observations are not unnoticed.

How about some of those "words of knowledge"
Pastor Stevens gets ?

[Anonymous (4.139.12.1)]

You mean like "I've never taken drugs; Thus sayeth the Lord." or "My time, my time, my time?"

[Anonymous (68.34.76.34)]

If things are so bad, then why don't you leave? Or have you lost your sense of free volition? Go where you can be fed the Word of God correctly. Or maybe stay so you can keep posting here what a miserable soul you seem to be. What a witness for Christ.

[Anonymous (4.139.30.220)]

I have left and thank you for your compliment on my witness for Christ.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

God bless you, 4.139.

The apologists usually offer two alternatives with subsequent associated actions being implied:

1. stay (and comply)

2. go (and be quiet)

It's a good example of the black and white thinking that is not only nurtured, but cultivated in a unhealthy environment.

[Anonymous (216.220.232.122)]

Does anyone have any knowledge of the pastors in South Berwick and their devotion to Carl Stevens? Any word out there if TBS will stand by his side through what is coming down the pike in Baltimore?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

I know Bruce Brown is very devoted to Pastor, cultically so. Does anyone remember that weird convention and that prayer meeting at an after-after rap at Steve Taylor's old business? Bruce Brown led that, it was sooo strange. My red flag was flying high that night!

[Anonymous (68.55.83.36)]

All, Will anyone mention BY NAME the "Pastors" that have gone wrong? EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE.

[Anonymous (204.210.72.161)]

I'm new to the ministry and this board. I have come to love Pastor Brown and the other pastors at TBS, but can't/won't stand by them if all this is true! Please, 64.12.117.20, tell me about his "cultic" devotion to Stevens. And please tell me about the weird convention and prayer meeting and what P.Brown said and did. Who is Steve Taylor? Thanks. Ellen W.

[Anonymous (204.210.72.161)]

Hi, it's Ellen W. again. I'd like to hear from all of you who can tell me what you think would happen if I went to P. Brown with all my concerns orhow I should handle it all. The TBS ministry isn't big enough to just disappear and not be missed and then be called by our friends and church family and questioned. I'm so confused. I've really loved being part of TBS and have made some very good friends. I'm in prayer, but still want to hear your suggestions. Thanks. Ellen W.

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Ask Pastor Brown why neither he or his wife have spoken to her brother for over ten years.

[Bob Brinton (151.203.179.90)]

I never really knew Pastor Brown much; but I remember going up to South Berwick from Lenox one weekend, and hearing him parrot what Stevens had just preached, and then repeating it again the same weekend. Boring, boring, boring. Bob

[Ellen Walters (216.220.232.122)]

So, are you saying what he preaches is not from God but from Stevens? I've heard Pastor Rick Knight preach just recently on "living in the horizontal" and reading through some of these threads have found that exact verbatum... Are these pastors that we've come to really care for really Stevens' puppets? I just don't know what to do. I know members (former) at GGWO and they say that if I talk to P. Brown, it won't do any good. He'll jsut tell us the "reason" of the persecution, which I was actually falling for already in just a year listening to it. I just am so unsettled. Can anyone advise? I AM waiting on the Holy Spirit, but would like to hear from lots of you. Thanks Cordell and Bob. PLEASE keep me informed of whatever you can. Pastor Wayne Goldworthy is (seems) so wonderful and such a godly man...they all do. We've made good friends and are worried about them, some being so long with TBS. I pray that God, in His perfect timing, will do what is needed to expose those who need to be, and then heal. I'm afraid if I confront P. Brown and then they disaffiliate, he and the body won't take us back, if that's what we decide to do. Sorry my thoughts are so scattered. May God be with all of this through these times. Ellen W.

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

Talking about a "good pastor" gone bad who's still looking good; you may want to take a look at the "legacy" of BILL REED, the former pastor of Greater Grace church in Las Vegas. Later, in 2002 he started the New Orleans Greater Grace church with his Missionfield America gimmick. Back in Vegas he taught all kinds of false doctrines such as an "outer darkness" in heaven for Christians who will not participate in the marriage supper of the Lamb, because they didn't go "soul-winning," didn't attend bible college, etc., etc. And although he privately apologized for some of his weird legalistic teachings to some in the church and excused it in one way or the other, the divisions had already begun in the church.
In 2001 he began ordaining all kinds of guys who catered to him (the "loyal" crowd, brown nosers just as he was himself when it came to Pastor Carl & Paul Stevens and others in Baltimore) to create his own little "GGWO Baltimore" in Las Vegas, and that attempt of course failed. Bill Reed preached against a married man being alone with a woman and so forth while he himself kept a couple of young unmarried (and sometimes married) ladies at his home, and he went shopping, dining and drove alone in the car frequently with one or the other, especially with one of these young ladies which was not his wife and not one of his daughters either. When his wife Airen left for the woman's conference in Baltimore or other places, Bill became really excited to have some time alone with the ladies, on an individual basis of course. The deception of Bill Reed probably began years earlier, but his violent temper and outrages and legalistic sermons became more evident in 2000-2002 as he became involved in major ego-trips and conspiracies against even one of his "best" friends who financed not only the church in Las Vegas from the early nineties, but who also financed his Cadillac, and a guy who rescued Bill Reed when he faced bankruptcy in the early nineties.
Talking about backstabbing--an art Bill Reed has perfected over the years--he alienated people from each other through his outbursts and also subtle approaches of his opinions attacking almost anyone including even the leadership in Baltimore and other churches like Calvary chapel and so on. Although he'd like to be the "Pastor/Teacher" in Baltimore, and for years he has manipulated people in his churches and brainwashed them to "go" (he even drove them) to Baltimore for bible college, but only so that he could get a strong foothold at "homebase" as he said.
When Pastor Carl Stevens became very sick in 2001 or so, Bill Reed got his hopes up already as he flew (financed with church money) people from Baltimore, Florida, Tacoma to Vegas, especially P. Paul Stevens so that he could foster his friendships and wannabe "authority." He already saw himself as a pastors' pastor. While he badmouthed Baltimore and taught doctrines contrary to Baltimore, but not for the better, he continued to cater to Baltimore power players to establish his hoped-for "leadership position."
As he continued with his egocentric and megalomanic ambitions and legalistic teachings in Las Vegas, he destroyed the lives of many people, counseling couples to get divorces, especially when one party wasn't "one" with the "ministry" and finally in 2002 the Las Vegas Greater Grace church experienced splits as attendance tumbled from around 200 to only 50. The best part was when Bill Reed ordained a "new" guy, Dominick Rodriguez--who had never attended a Bible College and had no theological training whatsoever--as the pastor of the remaining Las Vegas Greater Grace group/church, as he, Bill Reed, was moving to New Orleans. He ordained that guy for one reason only as he frequently discussed with others in the church, to first sell his Vegas house to someone who can afford it and who was supposed to buy it (but in the end Dominick didn't do it), and secondly to one who was a 100% submitted (a yes-man all the way) to Bill Reed as Bill would stay in charge of the Las Vegas operations anyway.
There's a lot more that went on in Las Vegas during those days from 2000-2002 and the sad part was that the trail of casualties created by Bill Reed as some have referred to is just simply enormous. Many friendships were destroyed and people became outcasts just because they didn't agree in every detail with Bill Reed and his strict "reign" by catering to his ever-present demands for "soul-winning" and daily church funtions, etc. Once such folks discovered the hypocracy that went on and asked Bill Reed about this and that, he began publicly marking people all over the place. Well, superficiality, deception and manipulations and ego-trips, etc. only go so far, and pride comes before the fall.

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

Bill Reed believes there are two gospels--one for the Jews and one for the rest of us. Weird.

[Bill Reed (68.225.78.205)]

Well folks I quess its time for me to post something. Defending myself though probably will fall on deaf ears I hope not though. Cordell, or Jim I may have different doctrine than you and I believe you have all the right in the world to challenge it. I have never had a problem with people having different doctrines, I understand that we are in a growth process all of us and I can tell you I have been reading your posts without malice. I do feel you have malice towards me though without ever meeting me. I mean have we met? Have I offended you? If so I am sorry for that is not my intention. There are many who are reading that are gaining insight they have not had before. I believe God even used Shimei to instruct us. But that last post from 68.229 anon needs addressing. The writer is Dietmar Sherf only he would know the details off the loan he made to me to buy a 3000 dollar used cadilliac. I paid him back by the way. I also have taken in over 48 people in to my home to help them in one way or another. Some were single women. But to imply that I was indecent with any of them without first hand knowledge is not spiritual. I implore you to ask any one who has lived with me whether I was indecent towards any of them. I am sure that you will find no one to accuse me except this one Dietmar Sherf who is upset that I did not appoint him as the pastor when I left Vegas. I did not because he was and is married to a mormon and his children are being raised in the mormon church. You can check this out with anyone that knows him. This is the problem, some of you have good intentions but you also believe every post that comes against anyone in ggwo. We are individuals in this thing trying to pray through things that are coming to light but personal attacks against people without verification is evil and I believe even Cordell would agree with that seeing I percieve he is a man after truth. Alot of affliate pastors are doing their best at this tough time to try and work a change from within. These personal attacks do nothing to help our efforts. I thought you were after facts does the post of Dietmar Sherf seem like facts or slander? It even makes me doubt the veracity of other posts. I will not post again.

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Okay Bill, I think you know that there are those of us here who are not responding to attacks ad hominem against you or Sam Spade. Sam and you will have to make your stand inside if you choose to do so. My gripe with you has always been doctrinal. I do not hate you, your wife, your family. For now, I just hope you stay east of the Sabine River. I hope, Bill, with all my heart that the things that were said against you are not true. I wish for you, my dear brother in Christ, a full and useful life for your Savior.

If you say you paid the man back, I believe you. If you say you have not been indecent with those women, I believe you. You have not seemed to me to be a guy who would act that way. I have argued 1 Tim. 5:19-20 applies to elders, where you know, Bill, that Carl Stevens has a different take on this. This man, Dietmar, would need more proof than just saying it here to make it so. I often times just ignore these people.

You chose to write against Reformed theology on the GGLV website. When you display your writings it would be a good idea to be able to defend them. I have attempted to address some concerns that I have with your doctrine, which is similar to old Scofieldian dispensationalism. You have stated that the gospel does not require repentance, I say the gospel always contains a command to repent and believe. That is the gospel of Christ. It is the gospel that Peter preached at Pentecost. Those are the main issues I have with you Bill Reed, because they affect the Gospel of Christ and how it is preached--and I believe this concern is central in importance.

I am also sorry, Bill, that you choose not to post here again. Your posts here would add a great deal of insight into the issues at hand. I also pray that you receive no repercussions for your posts here. We seem to have lost Skip Wood for some reason.

[Cordell Walker (66.90.181.249)]

Here is a portion of Bill's pamphlet on "TULIP" theology on the GGLV website:

"Therefore it is my hope that each and every student of God's Word that reads these pages will understand this was not written to sow discord or cause division in the body of Christ (Romans 16:17}, but simply to help those who have learned to leave their denominational allegiance at the door and to enter the rooms of God's mind, with meekness, resulting in a deep fellowship with truth and being Spirit taught {1 John 2:27}. May God illuminate your minds with understanding and reward you for diligently seeking Him {Hebrews 11:6}."

Bill, are you willing to leave your "DENOMINATIONAL ALLEGIANCE at the door and enter into the rooms of God's mind, with meekness...???"

Will your allegiance to your Pastor allow you to do that? I hope so, my dear brother. This is not addressed to you in hate but in hope.

[RJ (141.154.186.91)]

Ellen,

I know of Pastor Brown, having heard him preach in the past. I knew Pastor Knight and Jen and the children personally when I lived in Rumford, Maine. I just recently heard about their loss of Jacob, and was so sad to hear of it. I especially loved him when he was little.

Pastor Brown and Pastor Knight as pastors in an affiliate church with GGWO, adhere to the same doctrines and message as their pastor, Pastor Stevens. It is with Pastor Stevens, in my judgement that the fault lies. Pastors in the ministry are not encouraged to think for themselves as much as they might. The pastor in my area was shunned and eventually kicked out of GGWO all together because he did not have Ps Stevens viedo tapes running all the time, nor his tapes. He preached from the wealth of education and Holy Spirit he himself experienced. But because it did not line up exactly with Pastor Steven's brand of theology...which most main stream churches consider dangerously flawed...he was cast out.

I do not for a moment think that Pastor Brown or Pastor Knight does not totally believe what they preach, and they do NOT believe the trouble Pastor Stevens has caused untold numbers of people. The problem is, that although these pastors may be good men, they are preaching a corrupt gospel.

When my husband and I left the church here, we prayed about it, we spent time discussing the reasons. Then we called the pastor and told him we would not be returning to his church. We told him we would not under any circumstances discuss our reasons with him. (knowing the manipulative ways of the pastors in the ministry who take their cue from Pastor Stevens). We moved on to other things and have never regretted our decision.

Our friends in the church didn't understand. They shunned us too, until they began to leave.

Your soul's proper feeding is more important than the loss of friends. The gospel is preached in other churches, Ellen. The choice of your soul over the pull of loyalty and friendships is a tough one...but it will need to be made. Nothing you will say to these pastors will change them I am sorry to say. Sorry, mostly because I cared very much for Pastor Knight and Jen. But the truth for my soul is so much more important than human friendships based on corrupt doctrine.

I hope I have not confused your further, for that is not my intention at all. I just thought I might have something to say that might be of help to you.

Peace
Roberta

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

If Bill Reed attacks Pastor Dietmar Scherf on this site, then this tells me a lot about Bill's character and even gives a lot more weight to what was said about Bill Reed in that previous post today. Seems like Bill Reed can't stop backstabbing and running down people over and over again as he just can't handle truth. Bill shared the news about his Cadillac and some details of the deal at lunch and in church -- I was there -- there's nothing suspicious about that. But I also know Pastor Dietmar whom I have know for many years and he's one of the last few men who has absolute integrity. Dietmar provided millions of dollars to GGWO and they just dropped him like a hot potato when he uttered his concerns about the Las Vegas situation to Pastor Carl Stevens and Dr. Lewis.

I've also met Pastor Dietmar's wife, and she's very kind, and Pastor D. is just giving Grace over Grace, while I remember Bill Reed preaching in the Las Vegas church over and over again against mormons, especially when Dietmar's wife was there. Bill Reed despised her and he ran her down in Baltimore in front of Pastor Carl Stevens. There you see the judgmental attitude of Bill Reed who has a gripe against everybody. And while Dietmar's wife has never even talked about her beliefs to anyone, but instead supported her husband and is well on the way to come around as well as his kids--by the way Pastor Dietmar's kids went to GGCA in Baltimore and even in Las Vegas some continued to attend the Greater Grace church with Bill Reed there. But the legalistic and egocentric teachings and often screaming sermons by Bill Reed preach every sane person out, because this guy is insane.
Also, when it comes to false teachers and teachings, Bill Reed is at the top of the list as he ordained Rollin Miller, a legalistic self-centered "preacher" with a Thieme background and Rollin completed one split of the Greater Grace church in Las Vegas shortly after his ordination in Baltimore as Bill Reed deceived the leadership there to ordain this guy. Bill Reed subjected the whole congregation for years to the legalistic teachings of Rollin Miller who was like Bill Reed's right-hand man.

Regarding Dietmar as having a gripe of not being chosen as the pastor of Greater Grace in Las Vegas is not feasable to me, as he told me that at that time in the summer of 2002 he was ready to move to another state to start a new missionary work. And I'm sure, seeing the fruit in Pastor Dietmar Scherf's life over the last year, he would have made a great leader for Greater Grace in Las Vegas. But instead it went according to Bill Reed's stubborn Irish head and the church there suffered major losses, divisions, hurt and confusion.

Last I heard regarding Dietmar Scherf is that he is the founder of MegaGrace Ministries and he's doing quite well spiritually as he has a very powerful approach with what he calls the Pure Grace message. His website is MegaGrace.com at http://megagrace.com/ and you can read all about it. I think, Pastor Dietmar is quite happy that he's no longer associated with Greater Grace because of the obvious hypocrisy.

We see how cheap Bill Reed is as he stabs his best friends into their back -- and what about Nancy's husband who financed Bill Reed's real-estate deals? Bill Reed probably doesn't remember, because Nancy's husband is not "one" with the "ministry" because he doesn't show up at the services either and hasn't for many years and Bill was running him down here and there.

What about the current pastor of Greater Grace in Las Vegas? Bill Reed ran him down and sat that Nikki, Dominick's wife, was more active in church before she married Dominick, and he isn't sure about Dominick -- that was a few years ago.

As I remember it's also funny that Bill Reed goes wild about mormons as a number of people and families in his former Las Vegas church are former mormons and some have come into he church through Dietmar's ministry to them. We know that the mormon doctrine is off and they are not Christians, and Pastor Dietmar is the first one to say that as he has seen it first hand what kind of devastating impact such a cult can have on a family. But it seems as if GGWO is no different in many ways regarding its cult behavior, especially looking at the many posts on this site.

Bill Reed shouldn't even have the word "Grace" in his vocabulary as he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. And that's not slander, just listen to his sermons which are apparently 99% Grace and then at the end he stabs you with legalism making the whole Grace sermon void. I remember him say that we need to balance Grace just so that nobody gets wild ideas. Apparently he can't trust God for Grace to do its work.
Some of his flyers I think are still online here and there. Just go ahead and read them and you'll see the legalistic thread throughout. That's just the truth, but Bill Reed can't handle the truth as he's insecure and needs to defend his weird doctrines and strong personality by going after true men of God who he can't touch otherwise

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

How about getting these folks to join you in verifying what you're saying? You made some accusations and the man responded. He differs with you. If what you say is true then get some others who can attest to your story. If you can't do that, then why should you receive credibility here?

[Cordell (66.90.181.249)]

P.S.
I've looked at Scherf's site and it seems that Bill and Deitmar have a lot in common doctrinally--they're both Chafer style dispensationalists.

[Anonymous (68.229.25.178)]

To Cordell:

Anyone at the Las Vegas Greater Grace church and former members from that church can verify what I've said about Bill Reed. There's no slander whatsoever, just the reality of things how they were. For instance, one of the ladies was Julie who went shopping with Bill Reed alone and who was in the car with Bill Reed alone and went dining with Bill Reed alone, and I understand she was his secretary and she lived at his house. We ran into them a few times when he was alone with here, and when Bill left the church services, he often jumped into Julie's car, because they lived at the same house, and that wasn't a secret. We didn't say that he was indecent with these ladies, but he preached one thing and condemned everybody who did otherwise, and in reality he didn't set a good example, at least not by appearance.
Also it's strange that a number of women divorced their "non-ministry" husbands after counseling with Bill Reed and one of Bill Reed's favorite pasttime was to play matchmaker.
One of the divorced ladies was Lisa D. and after the divorce she married Jeff D. Lisa's husband showed up on the church property with a gun in his hand according to Bill Reed himself, as he was so devastated that Bill stole his wife for another. It's a story Bill Reed tells once in a while.
Then he played matchmaker in the case of Chuck and Stephanie Brookie and you can ask them and they will confirm that it was Bill Reed who brought them together.

Regarding his vicious comments about church members making out in the back of the church van discrediting Calvary Chapel for instance, was at a night at Convention in an "after-rap" as about 35-50 people sat around and Bill Reed spilled his wisdom.

Bill Reed will tell you that Nancy's husband financed some or most of his real-estate deals here in Las Vegas, and he, Bill, complained that Nancy's husband never shows up to services because he is shooting clay pigeons or something.

Regarding Dietmar Scherf's encounter with Bill Reed, you can contact him via his Website and I think his public E-mail is grace@megagrace.com and I'm not sure if he says anything about Bill Reed, because he once told me that Bill Reed was his best friend and he trusted him with his life.

All the other stuff is really public knowledge and as the members of the former Greater Grace here in Las Vegas are still intimitaded/indoctrinated with GG doctrine not to talk about a "pastor" and so forth, I do invite everybody who reads this forum to respond and tell their stories about Bill Reed. And it should be within this thread of "good pastors gone bad, but look good" and anyone there can be anonymous.
You don't have to be afraid of Bill Reed anymore, he can't do you any harm.

I just know whatever I've stated in this forum here is not hearsay or whatever, but it is fact and belief me there's lots more, and as you see Bill Reed take a stand here you also see him attacking other people.

A doctrinal difference is what it is, but if you preach one way and the live another way, that's a little funny.

Regarding the ordination of Rollin Miller that's a fact, everybody in GGWO Baltimore in the leadership knows about that, and if you know Bill Reed you know how he is -- he pays you lunch or dinner and he's kind and then he spills his soul/gripes along the way -- here a little and there a little.

Anyone, please feel free to confirm or even deny what is stated here about Bill Reed. Don't be afraid.

[Anonymous (4.155.9.229)]

Ellen.
You are talking about the possibility of S. Berwick disaffiliating....It will NEVER happen. S. Berwick has a long history with TBS - P. Stevens and the Bible college were there and there are so many people still there who are totally devoted to Stevens.
I can more easily see hell freezing over or pigs flying than I can see Bruce Brown splitting from Baltimore.
Just my humble opinion.

[Anonymous (68.33.65.121)]

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[Anonymous (68.33.104.166)]

Something GG pastors are guilty of is spreading lies and discrediting leaders and people who have left the ministry. They believe whatever pastor stevens has told them. Even if they find out it isn't true, they don't stop the lies that are being said. They are gutless. The other evil is that they know there is corruption at the top but they do nothing. Now the mantra is because pastor stevens is old, let's give him honor and wait things out until he is dead. They are gutless. They know lies, deceit, duplicity and other sins go on and do nothing. They are gutless. They prefer to preserve what little they have and sacrifice their testimony and relationship with universal church. They universal church looks upon them with sorrow and sadness, praying they will get right. The universal church has reached out, but stevens has never permitted a free and transparent dialog to occur. These leaders are gutless for allowing the coverups, payoffs, lying, enabling, etc to go on and on. May I say it one more time in GG vocabulary; these pastors and leaders in GG have no GUTZ.

[Anonymous (68.33.65.121)]

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[Anonymous (141.157.74.173)]

i am also an ex-gg newark de member. The lies and cover ups are unbelievable and now , how christian, i am being shunned and i am going to hell because I dont go to gg any more. I did it to save my soul and my children. these people are crazy and pastor worship is rampid. I dont know about you but i believe in paying my bills and living right befor god. these pastors do not and sacrafice valuable time with their families to do gods work. Families are god's work .

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

Ellen Walters ,

South Berwick TBS will never dis-affiliate. Well, maybe God will do a miracle so I suppose we should never say never.

Pastor Brown is as loyal as they come. However, he is not of the same character as Stevens.
SB might morph on its own in the future away from the format of GG but I doubt it will EVER depart from the many faulty "doctrines" that are the cornerstones of a Stevens church.

There are several awesome folks there who are hoping/working to see format and style changes in their church there so as to reach out more effectively to the SB community. But there are also MANY families and individuals who have left or are on the verge of leaving so if that isn't waking the Browns up to reality of the faulty system, I don't imagine anything will.

They are even becoming increasingly informed by key people about the corruption in Balt (Schaller, Marr et al) but Pastor Brown will never buy the truth about Stevens.
They are well taught all these 30 years that such truth can only be lies spoken against "an awesome man of God who has given so many so much grace" (NOT!)

The core group in South Berwick have all been in the church for over 25 years- many since Wiscasset. Long ago they "signed their names in blood". They have invested all those years of their lives, key years, putting their families, careers,and understanding of Christ on the alter to Stevens. For them, I imagine change would be like death.

Ellen, they would never ask you to leave if you approach them with your questions. Just be willing to be "marked" where some folks will act a little stand-offish and you'll forfeit any future in the inner circle. I think that's an ok price to pay for challenging some darkness with the light of TRUTH, don't you?

[Anonymous (204.210.72.161)]

It's been a while since I've posted. I've been trying to piece this all together. Someone told me to ask about Joel Freeman. Can anyone tell me about what he experienced with TBS. I know he's Pastor Brown's brother-in-law. Thanks.
Ellen Walters

[Anonymous (204.210.72.161)]

It's been a while since I've posted. I've been trying to piece this all together. Someone told me to ask about Joel Freeman. Can anyone tell me about what he experienced with TBS. I know he's Pastor Brown's brother-in-law. Thanks.
Ellen Walters

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Ellen, your questions has been re-posted to Thread 16.

[Nancy Curra (172.142.131.186)]

This is the only thing I will say in this thread. When I lived in Florida I was walking and healthy and my children and I shared a house with P.Bill and Airen. They were nothing but giving and kind to us and always available. They were good friends to me and the kids. Then when I made the move to Baltimore with my kids we had no where to stay. Pr Bill and Airen took us in, were always kind, fed us and were available to help us in every way until I was able to find a place and move on. That is all I know about them, kindness and laid down lives. dont' know anything about what's going on now but I did have to jump in and share this with all.

[Anonymous (69.242.21.100)]

during the offering time watch what the pastors are doing , do they give ?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

I was told NOT to tithe a year ago by elders wives.

[Anonymous (12.183.1.157)]

alec is that you,even before you say anything,I know what your thinking.How was the move? Everybody o.k.Tell her I said hello. How are the kids?.I miss them. Shake the dessert sand off your feet and do your thing,you the man. Robin Williams Cadillac Man

[Martin L. (65.96.153.178)]

I'm sick of people calling all the fluff and filler during services "anointed". It's just plain unprofessional and boring and certainly not worth the time to get up early and drive on a Sunday morning to hear when I can be getting more from reading a children’s book on the bible than the stupid comments from the pulpit.

I say don't impinge upon my intelligence and call it Gods message when it is nothing more than a poorly planned "Johnny Carson" show, using the churches money and good will to produce. This is nothing but Lard - greasy, globs of it.

I'm sorry folks - I tried. I am angry but sin not.

Content folks!!! - content is sorely lacking and "Grinder Boy" Hogarth delivers.

I heard, but do not know if it was true or not, that (according to the Church Secretary and associate Pastor there in Westfield) that Hoagie Boy (Wayne Hogarth)does not have a schedule, no one knows what his schedule is, he comes and goes as he pleases and does "hit or miss" appointments with potential donors. Recently, I heard, a Dr. tried to get an appointment with him to donate $35,000 to the ministry there was put- off by the unprofessional and controlling protocol there. Not being comfortable to deal with such an inaccessible and unaccountable pastor - she changed her mind and decided to give to another organization. Ask Hoagie Boy if this is true whoever you are that cares to defend him. There are so many other things people hear – it makes you wonder if all this is true or that everybody just makes it up.

These guys are playing church at the expense of parishioners. The growth occurs because of successful marketing, and because (like the Jehovah’s Witnesses) there is an organized plan to recruit. It is only a matter of time until that batch is burnt-out, and a new crew of worker bees are brought in to bring home the "honey".

There is a high level of guilt that motivates work for God within this and many other church structures. If one fails to evangelize and witness they are "in sin" and will loose their rewards. Like the Jehovah’s - that is a driving force in all programs.

The truth is that everyday on Grace Hour radio, there is stuff like this going on – there is a lot of damage control behind the scenes. Advice is given freely, like a prescription, on how to be this and do that spiritually, by the very ones who offend, and connive to maintain authority and discipline from the ranks of the abused. People need to start listening instead of accepting everything from the pulpit of Stevens world , as from God.

Martin L.

[Anonymous (12.183.1.163)]

Go gettem alec

[PG-Boy (69.67.254.39)]

Nice repost Marty-boy....why not smear that stuff on this thread too.

I heard this, I heard that...I don't know but I've been told...

And you say those of us who love our Pastor believe everything he says?????
You obviously believe some things you're being told.

[Nic (205.188.117.20)]

You are right, PG, and he is so put off by Grace Hour and by P.Hogarth, yet he keeps going back and tuning in. Very strange

[Anonymous (67.249.230.34)]

Hey is Nic for Nicodemus who came in the NIGHT to see Jesus? Are you doing the same; secretly posting here while faining loyalty to "Pastor" and company?

[Nic (205.188.117.20)]

Oh, 67, you are so clever, you figured me out.

The word is "feigning", and no, I am not in any way doing that....just speaking what I think, as you are

[Anonymous (67.249.230.34)]

Hey Nic, thanks for the: spell check, sarcasm and your "two cents". You sound tired; are you?

[Anonymous (67.163.201.62)]

Good pastors gone bad but look good: John Love

[Lori Argenzio (141.157.80.117)]

good pastors gone bad, but look good?

seriously are you kidding me? lol

If someone goes bad on the inside then the outside doesn't really matter much anymore, don't ya think?

So my answer is.....

good pastors gone bad: Plenty

but look good: bad insides = ugly outsides to me so my answer is none.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

It is a shame that bitter, vengeful people mark and smear the character of other pastor's and their wives the way they have on this posting. What has been written about Ps. Brown and Ps. Knight and their wives are completely baseless and untrue. Anyone that knows them a smidge would say the same. Check out the verse that says that he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends. Those of you who are spreading bitter gossip in your misguided attempt at "unifying" and "reconciling" people ought to check out the validity of your own doctrine before criticizing others.

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

do something Satan doesn't want you to do tonight....PRAY

[brad (brad)]

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