An archived post by Jack Leonard

[Anonymous (64.12.117.12)]

Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 04:19 am
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On the authority of the local pastor and coverings

The challenge for the believer is to know which authority to honor in each situation, for there is usually more than one. For example, in Acts 5, Peter and John had to decide whether to honor the religious authorities in Jerusalem or God.

In church life, a woman must decide whether to honor her husband or her pastor. In 1987, in the midst of the trial, I was asking some critical questions about the policies of TBS in the privacy of my own home. Lee, however, had just attended a rap in which Pastor Stevens exhorted women to stand fast with the ministry if their husbands show any signs of disloyalty. This made for a very tense week, marriage-wise. Not in ten years had we ever discussed separation. Ultimately, we both realized that the “head of every woman is the man,” not the pastor-teacher.

The church was in trial, of course, because we were being sued by Betsy Dovydenas for the return of $5 million. Betsy made an initial gift of $1 million to TBS with the full knowledge and consent of her husband. This was never a problem. Subsequently, she made a more substantial donation without the knowledge of her husband. The court ruled, of course, that the money gained deceitfully. Regardless, it was reckless for us to knowingly accept a donation of that magnitude without the husband’s knowledge. We did him a grave dishonor.

These are two instances where I believe the pastor overstepped the bounds of his authority. There is only one individual in the New Testament who is ever given the title of “head” in reference to the woman. More than one woman has found the pastor-teacher a tempting alternative. The pastor-teacher must be extremely careful not to usurp authority.

I am sorry for my infrequent postings. I do read this board most days, but I find the high school work too demanding Monday-Friday to say anything sensible here.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.12)]

Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 06:10 am


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What has been accomplished on this message board? While there is great turmoil in the discussion, I find:

Ex-members have found a forum to voice their complaints and grievances without being shut up. They will no longer be shamed into silence.

They have found a resource to link up with others. They will no longer be divided.

Ex-members have reached out and found old friends and acquaintances and made new ones.

Specific sins in GGWO have been named and posted, in the spirit of “take it to the church.”

Old sins that were never properly addressed – reconciliation to both God and man – have been brought to light.

New sins have been brought to light.

Other sins have been investigated and are still in question. (The gradual uncovering of sin is instructive. As I suggested in beginning, the best way for GGWO to nip this thing in the bud is to come clean, go public, and LEAD a very open and fair discussion of the sins and mistakes of the past, being careful to handle complaints and questions patiently and respectfully. GGWO will not lead in this work, so they are left with this messy and, at times, disrespectful forum).

Most importantly, a complete case is slowly being assembled. Many people have privately carried the painful knowledge of isolated offenses. Now these incidents are being connected into a pattern. The magnitude of the problem is becoming more apparent. The problems have been the same in nature and recurring over the years, resulting in wave upon wave of painful “trials” and “purges” that have left many sincere believers wounded and disillusioned. In retrospect, the specific years of trials and purges are readily apparent. One generation has infected the next with a lifestyle of abuse and adultery that belies the heart of a true shepherd.

Some of us who struggled privately to forgive the offenses committed against us are now waking up to a much larger picture. We are seeing not just mistakes, but a system that has a predilection to making mistakes, that defends or denies the mistakes, and ridicules and abuses the detractors. We are looking more closely at the specific doctrines that predispose to these sins, doctrines that are publicly aired and doctrines that are largely unspoken except in small raps in donut shops and car rides.
Jack

[jf (66.90.181.249)]

"but a system that has a predilection to making mistakes"

"Mistakes" usually imply unintentional or uninformed actions. Is that what we are addressing?

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

The whole paragraph better makes the point than this isolated part of the sentence. Perhaps "mistakes" refers to errors in doctrine and judgement, but I don't know.

I would point out that this was posted in June...a lot has changed since then in the perceptions of the depth of sin and corruption perpetrated by this cult.

If Jack is like the many of us who have been healing, learning and processing the facts as they more clearly emerge, I suspect he might phrase this somewhat differently now.

The learning, healing, undertanding the scope of the abuses is an ongoing process and I might suggest that anyone newly reading or referring to Jack's past posts, or mine or anyone else's might take that into consideration.

[Dave Drago (68.91.74.17)]

I think everyone who is exposed to the GGWO over emphasis on the pastor’s authority and the abuses and confusion it can lead to needs to review biblical pastoral leadership.

A good place to start is by asking the question:
What obligations does a pastor/elder/bishop have to the congregation he is called by God and confirmed by the church to humbly serve? Here are ten examples to start your own scriptural study. (There are many more).

1. He is a steward that is entrusted with the overall management of the church family.

Titus 1
7 For an overseer, as God's manager, must be blameless, not arrogant, not quick tempered, not addicted to wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, (HCSB)

Titus 1
7It's important that a church leader, responsible for the affairs in God's house, be looked up to--not pushy, not short-tempered, not a drunk, not a bully, not money-hungry. (The Message)

2. He is to be an example to the church as he humbly resolves problems in the congregation without harping on his authority. He will not sound like this: “I am God’s man, I am the appointed leader, and I know what is best. And, I know when is best. And, I know how is best. You just need to trust me and listen to me, because I hear from God. I am your pastor-teacher and you need to come in and come under my delegated authority for God to bless you.”

1 Peter 5:1-3
1Therefore, as a fellow elder and witness to the sufferings of the Messiah, and also a participant in the glory about to be revealed, I exhort the elders among you: 2 shepherd God's flock among you, not overseeing out of compulsion but freely, according to God's will; not for the money but eagerly; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.

1 Peter 5:1-3
1I have a special concern for you church leaders. I know what it's like to be a leader, in on Christ's sufferings as well as the coming glory. 2Here's my concern: that you care for God's flock with all the diligence of a shepherd. Not because you have to, but because you want to please God. Not calculating what you can get out of it, but acting spontaneously. 3Not bossily telling others what to do, but tenderly showing them the way.

3. He is to stand guard over the church which Jesus paid for with His own blood.

Acts 20:28
28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. (HCSB)

Acts 20:28
28"And now beware! Be sure that you feed and shepherd God's flock--his church, purchased with his blood--over whom the Holy Spirit has appointed you as elders. (NLT)

4. He is to model his ministry after Christ. He will emulate meekness and humility like Jesus did in Matthew 11:28-30 as her serves the church. Meekness literally means that we surrender self-control to the LORD. Humility means pastors don’t think too highly of themselves. Sadly, too many pastors are proud, controlling and selfish.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 "Come to Me, all of you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.[1] 29 All of you, take up My yoke and learn from Me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for yourselves. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." (HCSB)

Matthew 11:28-30
28Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke fits perfectly, and the burden I give you is light." (NLT)

5. He is to be a humble servant of all. Jesus taught in Mark 9:33-35 that if anyone wants to be first, he will be last. He taught us to be a servant of all. Yet, too many leaders want to be first. Proud leaders sound something like this, “I’m the pastor around here and what I say goes. You need to submit to my leadership; Christ has put me over you.”

Mark 9:33-35
33After they arrived at Capernaum, Jesus and his disciples settled in the house where they would be staying. Jesus asked them, "What were you discussing out on the road?" 34But they didn't answer, because they had been arguing about which of them was the greatest. 35He sat down and called the twelve disciples over to him. Then he said, "Anyone who wants to be the first must take last place and be the servant of everyone else." (HCSB)

Mark 9:33-35
33 Then they came to Capernaum. When He was in the house, He asked them, "What were you arguing about on the way?" 34 But they were silent, because on the way they had been arguing with one another about who was the greatest. 35 Sitting down, He called the Twelve and said to them, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be last of all and servant of all." (NLT)

6. He is to have good judgment for prayer.
1 Peter 4:7
7 The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

7. Above all, he is to love the church fervently.

1 Peter 4:8
8 Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

8. He is to be hospitable.

1 Peter 4:9
9Be hospitable to one another without complaint.

9. He is to preach and serve for the glory to Jesus Christ, not self promotion.

1 Peter 4:10-11
10As each one has received a special gift; employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 4:7-11
7Everything will soon come to an end. So be serious and be sensible enough to pray.
8Most important of all, you must sincerely love each other, because love wipes away many sins.
9Welcome people into your home and don't grumble about it. 10Each of you has been blessed with one of God's many wonderful gifts to be used in the service of others. So use your gift well. 11If you have the gift of speaking, preach God's message. If you have the gift of helping others, do it with the strength that God supplies. Everything should be done in a way that will bring honor to God because of Jesus Christ, who is glorious and powerful forever. Amen. (CEV)

10. He is to lay down his life and put the needs of the church before his own. By doing this he models the life of Jesus Christ in John 10:11.

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 10:11
I am the good shepherd, and the good shepherd gives up his life for his sheep. (CEV)

Conclusion: A pastor is not perfect. He needs to remind himself that he is on a journey of faith. He needs to do his best to lead the church with humility, integrity and godly wisdom.

If he cannot, for the good of the congregation, the testimony of Jesus and for his own spiritual well being he needs to be removed. I hope this will encourage you to further your study of this doctrine.

I also think everyone who is exposed to the GGWO over emphasis on the pastor’s authority and the abuses and confusion it can lead to needs ask the question:
“What obligations does a congregation have to its elders?”

For Him,
Dave

[Dave Drago (68.91.74.17)]

BTW,
Like we were taught in the Army: "If you have to constantly remind everyone you are the leader, you are not leading effectively."...
For Him,
Dave

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Friends,

I have been without many words here on Factnet for quite a while. It has been about 5 months now since the "blinders" have began to come for me concerning GGWO. I spent nearly nine years of my lifeintensely involved with this ministry. Many positive things came out of this involvement, including meeting and marrying the most wonderful woman in the world AND a very deep love for Scripture. However, I wish I could say that "I've moved on" (although I am in progress with this). There is still much to this process for me. I would love to share my "whole story" because I think it would be healing for me and might help others. However, the present need for annoyimity simply makes this impossible. In place of such a disclosure, I offer the following:

It seems that one of the strongest attractions of GGWO (and organizations like it) are the "answers" that it seems to provide to the important questions of life like:

Where will I spend eternity and what is involved with this?

How can I please God and what does God require of me while I'm on this earth?

How can I live unto God is such a way that my human relationships are meaningful, pure, and as free as
possible from manipulation, abuse, etc.?

How can I repair or obtain the necessary "foundation for life" so I marry (and stay married) to the right person, fulfill God's divine destiny for my stay on this earth, etc.?

... and many more.

Now in the history of GGWO there are 1000's upon 1000's of Messages, Raps, and ABD classes that attempt to address the questions in excruciating levels of detail. So much so, that anyone who "stays with it" will quickly develop a whole new vocabulary and mind set. As time goes parts of yourself - as a unique individual creation of Jesus Christ (i.e. Psalm 139, John 1:1-4, etc.) will begin to DIE. In the GGWO nomenclature and understanding, this considered a good thing because you are "becoming a member in particular", "being baked in the loaf", "dying to your flesh that you might live unto Christ", etc. In reality you are becoming conformed to a religious system of thinking that no one outside of GGWO understands or can relate to ... but you now have "answers".

The tragic reality is of these "answers" were rooted in the belief that Carl H. Stevens possessed some kind of very special authority from God, and (as Jack Leonard so well put it) Carl was perceived as "someone who had broken the spiritual maturity barrier".

The hardest thing for me to come to terms with, is the simple fact that 1000's of hours of 1000's of people's lives have been invested in this "search for answers" only to discover that the man, and his "ministry", that we loved and trusted with our lives, who we really believed was above the need for sublimation because of the depth of his walk with God, was just as weak, prone to failure, vain, and self-involved as the rest of us - yet was able to cover this up under the pretext of "living in divine quietness" or "operating in the office of Pastor/Teacher". Let's face it, most of us spend substantial portions of our lives engaged in various attempts to advance our own agenda and optimize the outcome of everything we do.

This why it IS ONLY by the MERCY and GRACE of JESUS CHRIST that we can be loved by God.

... and with this, I've once again run out of words.

NONOTONE

[NONOTONE (24.211.177.206)]

The second sentence of my previous post should say " ... since the blinders have begun to come OFF"

[Anonymous (67.243.240.19)]

Nonotone,
You may have run out of words, but you said volumes. I can certainly identify with your description of the process that someone in GGWO becomes immersed in. That is why leaving GGWO was such an ordeal for many including myself.
But Carl Stevens is aware of this dilema and uses it to manipulate others.

[Bob Brinton (141.154.147.150)]

That's a critical issue you raise about parts of who you are in Christ dying, Nonotone. Part of that process is accomplished by giving you a whole lot of endless activity beyond the boundaries of what you are personally called to, thus leaving you without the space and energy to become what God has designed you to be. This was always the critical fault with the ministry for me. I wanted the freedom to walk in personal response to the Spirit, unhindered by the expectations of other people or their systems. This is still an ongoing struggle beyond GGWO; but it's one the Lord wants us engaged in. And furthermore, we are to walk with that anointing that will help break the yokes of bondage for others. Truth can set people free.

Part of the necessary balance to this is accountability to others and to the truth. It's not just me and Jesus, or me and the Spirit. He has reasons for making us a Body and giving us particular place within it. Our accountability to others is not equal in all directions. It's something we must seek the form and direction for from the Lord and His Word. All the details of it are not already down on paper. The Bible doesn't tell you whether you should fix the roof rather than sending a check to someone in Brazil. Pastors and councils also need to be under authority, seeking the Spirit's direction for such decisions.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Thank you "67" and Bob!

You have both managed to say in a few words what I've spent 10 of hours
thinking about in the past 4-6 months.

Bob your sentence:

"Part of that process is accomplished by giving you a whole lot of
endless activity beyond the boundaries of what you are personally called
to, thus leaving you without the space and energy to become what God has
designed you to be."

is just about the most truthful statement I've ever read concerning "the
consumption of one's life" that can occur in GGWO and similar
organizations. Believe me, I fought this very, very hard for many years.
I was "in and out" of Bible College (as a part time) student for several
years. When I would take a class, I would try to immerse myself totally
in it - to get as much out of the Bible as possible.

Honestly, it only took a couple of semesters before I began to see a
real difference between what Carl H. Stevens was teaching in ABD and in
what most of the other teachers taught in their classes.

Pastors Lutz, Hadley, and even Dr. Lewis seemed to pretty much stick to
sound (dispensational) hermeneutics. The Bible was basically allowed to
speak for itself and (for the most part) the correct balance of local
and remote context, etc. was pretty much maintained. It was through the
help of these classes and 100's of hours of study, prayer, and
meditation on my own that I developed a deep love for God's word after
years of pretty much rejecting it.

ABD (the Stevens' "Flagship" course) was another matter entirely. This
course is where the real GGWO/Stevens indoctrination takes place. In
ABD, Pastor Stevens would teach "line upon line" and some of this was
your basic Weust/A.T. Roberston/Vincent exegesis that presented the
historical/ grammatical methods in keeping with Baptistic
traditionalism.

However, for Pastor Carl Stevens', this was only a "jumping off point"
for a seemingly endless stream of new definitions and forays into
"remote contexts" (jumping all OVER the place in the Bible in an attempt
to define new anthropopathisms, and "DEFINITION" for the human psyche
and experience). Stevens would say things like "... and you won't read
this anywhere; not in any commentary" OR "WAKE UP, do YOU know how
LONNNGG it took me to get this FROM GOD? - 5 hours from 11-4AM this
morning just to exegete these two Hebrew words). Of course all of this
is spoken in a tone (that is called an "anointing") with many crescendos
and "whispers", which simply adds to the effect of "binding your soul"
to "the man of God and his message".

You see friends, this is where the manipulation takes place. You are
given just enough "normal" evangelical teaching to make the Bible make
sense when you read it for yourself. BUT, this is mixed UP with all of
these other doctrines tied to "definitions" that are pretty much unique
to GGWO and Carl H. Stevens (although there are some other
fundamentalistic churches/etc. that say similar things - because
friends, "there is NOTHING new under the sun"). Pretty soon you start
evaluating everything you see, read, hear, or think in terms of these
"definitions".

... and this is the beginning of "being conformed" to a system of
religion, that while Orthodox Christian in its basic creed, has the
power to steal your real identity as a unique, individual creation of
our Lord Jesus Christ! Fortunately, this does not happen to everyone at
GGWO, but it had this impact in varying degrees to those of us who came
to believe that the GGWO/Stevens provided "all the answers" to our
deepest quest for life's questions.

May we all "grow in the [TRUE] grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus
Christ"!


nonotone

[Arguendo (152.163.101.12)]

Nonotone, you seem well and I am glad for you.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Thanks Arguendo,

In the words of Garth (Brooks), "I could have missed the pain, but I'd a
had to miss the dance". Through my years in GGWO, I was blessed to see
how a bunch of different races and classes of people live. This taught me
a lot of humility and gratitude for what God has given me. I've also
made some wonderful friends that in spite of distance, time, and some
(now) doctrinal differences, I still treasure.

... most of all, I just want to live my life, all of my life, in the
most truthful manner possible. This is why remaining anonymous here on
Factnet is difficult for me, but it must be so for the foreseeable
future.

[Anonymous (66.30.49.45)]

nonotone-

I really appreciate your posts today, and Bob's.
It WAS the ABD classes that gave Stevens his greatest platform and what a given it was that we all get to it even if on tape. Think of all the poor souls attending all the foreign GG Bible schools who became indoctrinated with all that mumbo jumbo!

Thanks for posting and I hope you'll do a "Jim Faucet's Story" type of post someday. I understand your hesitation due to being possibly recognized through it. I am just now beginning to feel freer in that area myself especially since now I KNOW that a lot of my fear was based on the specific teachings Stevens did all these years to make it so we felt God would judge us horribly if we ever entered into anything even hinting of dissent!

(I do still feel a need to post anonymously though)

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Thanks '66'. I would love to do such a story at some point and believe me , I'm not bitter at GGWO or Carl H. Stevens. It is not my desire the engage in kind of personal attack on anyone. It is just that some folks would misconstrue the story. But, then again, this is always the risk when attempting to communicate a complex set of circumstances that involves so many relational, spiritual, emotional, and doctrinal "connections" coming from one's own heart viewpoint.

Nine years in GGWO was simply "part of my journey through this life". It came with "a cost" but also accrued many benefits. My only hope is that those still in GGWO will not judge me according to the very "definitions" that they have been taught from the Stevens' pulpit. I know that I've been guilty of doing that in this past, and it has a VERY short-lived satisfaction.

[Anonymous (200.76.64.3)]

nonotone,
Thanks and blessings.....from one still in the boat.

[nonotone (24.211.177.206)]

Thanks 200,

If I can ever help you "bail water", please email me at
nonotone@mac.com.

[nonotone (nonotone)]

Bump: Hodeuon, more content related to your recent inquiry on the "For Boddah" thread

[hodeuon (hodeuon)]

Thanks!

[brad (brad)]

10