NEW READERS Helpful Information

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Click on these links to find information regarding Greater Grace World Outreach and Carl. H. Stevens, Jr. -

Summary of Grievances Against the Leadership of GGWO (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2790.html?1090621971)

The CRI Martin Report (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2501.html?1088438835)

Gospel Truth Ministry Report (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2553.html?1088630019)

Watchman Fellowship Newsletter (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2244.html?1087169166)

The Alan Lang Story (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2350.html?1087627891)

Elizabeth Dodvydenas v. The Bible Speaks (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2349.html?1087624167)

Dodvydenas Proof of Claim (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2552.html?1088629679)

An Example of Cult Practices in America (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2623.html?1089345245)


Other websites containing information:

www.carlstevens.org

The Rick Ross Institute (http://www.rickross.com/groups/greatergrace.html)

Watchman Fellowship Expositor (http://www.watchman.org/cults/stevens.htm)

re: George Robertson (http://www.watchman.org/reltop/fen3.htm)

re: George Robertson (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/r00.html#robertsong)

An Elusive Pastor Reborn (http://www.kashiashram.com/people/strangers_txt.htm)

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

The Bambino Posts - Newark, DE (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2764.html?1090374430)

[Anonymous (152.163.253.102)]

Articles can be found here and load very quickly:

www.carlstevens.org

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

Jim Faucett's Story (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2285.html?1090044115)

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

The Baltimore Sun Article (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2343.html?1088838019)

[Anonymous (68.33.184.79)]

Some more info for newcomers: avoid anything that Neil is involved with.

[Anonymous (24.88.32.43)]

bump http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (24.88.32.43)]

www.graceways.org

[Anonymous (24.88.32.43)]

eeks http://www.graceways.org

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (24.88.32.251)]

I think you will find that there are Pastors from GGWO not posting on graceways.org's discussion board.

You will find Wayne Hogarths Letter there as well. I understand other Pastors are planning posting as well.

http://www.1works.org/discuss/

[Anonymous (24.88.32.251)]

Ouch the site is

http://www.graceways.org/discuss/

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

That website you just posted does not work, I tried it

[Anonymous (24.88.32.251)]

http://www.graceways.org/discuss/

[Anonymous (24.88.32.251)]

Sorry about that!

http://www.graceways.org/discuss/

will take you there

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

pray and guard your heart

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (209.6.151.215)]

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[Anonymous (24.88.32.251)]

http://www.graceways.org/discuss

[Anonymous (209.240.205.61)]

Info for those families in Springfield who were destroyed in the Pastor Stratos sex scandal;
he moved to the west coast, got a ah hummm doctorate from Western Seminary, served for a while as an interim pastor in Portland, was a guest lecturer on "creating a healthy family"
for Hased Ministries, and now has a $$$ job as Human Resource Director for a Portland software firm...Ummm, his life goes on without missing a beat, while scores of us go through life traumatized like ghosts at a fatal accident scene.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Oh, Shutup, whiner, Pastor Stratos never traumatized your life. If your life is ruined by others' failures, you might as well go live in a cave by yourself. Grow up and take responsibility for yourself. What did you expect Pastor Stratos to do, live out his years in sackcloth and ashes on the streets? I hardly think his life "went on without missing a beat", but at least he went on with it and you should do the same.

[Anonymous (209.240.205.61)]

Do we let sex offenders work with children?
Is it wise to let a man who kept a harem of others wives teach Christians on "creating the
healthy family"... Yeah, you jerk, lets let the fox in the hen house..I would not have a problem
if he sold cars or was an electrician; but,
in the ministry again..No class baby... Very balsy!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

First of all, do you know for a fact that he kept a "harem of others wives"?

Secondly, would you let a man who kept a harem write Psalms, and would you say he was a man after God's own heart?

Thirdly, would you let a man who persecuted Christians and put them to death become an apostle and write epistles in the Bible?

I guess what you would do and what God would do are a lot different.

You should thank God that He has more mercy on you than you give to others

[Anonymous (209.240.205.61)]

David he aint...and a Phi Beta Kappa you aren't.
Don't give me your Bible Speaks crap...
How about, "do not cast your pearls before swine"....How do you know Stratos asked God for forgiveness?

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

How do you know he didn't? He doesn't have to be David to get the sure mercies of David. That is not Bible Speaks crap, it is the Bible (Isaiah 55:3, Acts 13:34)

[Anonymous (209.240.205.61)]

Hello, McFly..Doctors, therapists, and clergy
are not to have sex with those in their trust and care...If they do, they forever loose their right
to practice their service...Yes, they
can be forgiven; but, why can't you brainwashed GGWO zombies understand, that you should not trivialize when a pastor falls into sexual debauchery..I was a member of TBS from 1979to1985,
so I know all your head games...

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

Oh, so when the Springfield split happened in the 90s you had already been gone for 6 or 7 years. Yet you seem to feel you are well informed and qualified to speak about it, and feel your life was traumatized

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

General information can be found on this thread.

Other sites containing this information:

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Discuss_GGWO/index.php?showforum=4

http://www.carlstevens.org/

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (63.27.31.47)]

Read your Bible!

[Anonymous (149.174.164.83)]

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[Anonymous (141.154.144.33)]

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[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

Go and do something satan really doesn't want you to do today and pray instead of spending time on factnet.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (24.88.32.251)]

http://www.graceways.org/discuss

A discussion board about GGWO that doesn't delete posts.

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[Dan Huisjen (208.229.12.52)]

The helpful information I'm looking for is:
How come most here are afraid to state their name?
Are you all lacking the testicular fortitude to back
up what you have to say by putting your name behind it?
You could at least come up with a stupid little
screen name so that it'd be easier to keep straight
who said what!

[Anon Brief (205.188.117.20)]

Many who post here have loved ones who remain in GG.

[Dan Huisjen (208.229.12.16)]

Me too. So what?

[Anonymous (63.27.2.86)]

Dan, I don't possess testicles so what you ask is an impossiblity! Sorry about that, Anon 63.

[JF (66.90.181.249)]

Anon 63, you could give yourself a pseudonym like "little cabbage". Then we'd all know it was you.

[Anonymous (68.82.183.197)]

moving this one

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JUMP!

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

NEW readers - start here.

[Anonymous (64.12.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (24.58.114.87)]

i'll soon be working on "the orange twopay story" you'll all love it but untill then,

leave use a note at:

(http://liquidwaves.blogspot.com)

tell us why you hate stevens. there is an email address as well

liquidwavesoflove@yahoo.com

really tell us what you think of the man the myth the legend that is Stevens!

we might even post the best emails for everyone to read! also send us wacky stevens pics and we'll post them as well.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (68.33.60.157)]

you are so bizarre

[Anonymous (131.191.71.202)]

Do you think other pastors in the churches that are affiliated with GGWO that are not near Baltimore know about this website? Should I tell my pastor about this website or do you think it's likely that Baltimore has notified all of the pastors about this site?

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

I think everyone within earshot ought to be told about this website. Here are links:

FACTNet
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2817.html?1093622636

http://www.carlstevens.org

Discuss GGWO
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Discuss_GGWO/index.php?s=21bb3b977123f231661a171b35d57d1c&showf orum=4

[Anonymous (151.203.163.174)]

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[Anonymous (67.243.240.182)]

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[Anonymous (67.243.240.182)]

Dids you notice, as of the end of August GGWO/Factnet has over 25,000 postings in less than five months.
Little by little people within GGWO are beginning to open their eyes and see something astonishing;
... maybe their pastor isnt perfect, maybe he is actually human, maybe he has even sinned.
As I recall, these 3 things alone are actually difficult to imagine when you are a member of GGWO.
If it was not for the behavior of Carl H. Stevens, there would be no subsite such as GGWO/Factnet.
To all who post here let me say,
Let you light shine in the darkness,
Speak the truth,
Don't hold back,
Please continue to expose Greater Grace World Outreach for what it isnt.

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,,,

[Anonymous (4.156.99.217)]

bump

[Anonymous (151.203.157.69)]

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[Anonymous (4.156.99.68)]

Let's keep this at the top. Otherwise new readers will not find it.

And could we keep the petty bickering, name calling, and personal attacks off this thread? Its purpose is to educate new readers who are coming here to find out what is going on and to get information about GGWO.

Thank you.

[Anonymous (151.203.157.69)]

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[Dave Drago (66.136.186.131)]

Friday, September 17, 2004 - 11:05 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An Open Letter to GGWO Concerning Ongoing Issues:
I have outlined several issues that GGWO needs to address. As some of you are aware, I with other brothers and sisters in Christ inside and outside of GGWO have lovingly offered support to the Baltimore church. I have followed the progression of FACTNET since April of 2004. I am very grieved by the situation. I do not agree and distance myself from any who would tear down our brothers and sisters in Christ. I have always been a friend and will continue to be a friend of GGWO. I deeply value what I learned while in the ministry. I thank God for the passion for souls, a love for Scripture and appreciation of the body of Christ that I was taught. Again, I attempted to look at it from the outside as an objective observer not a Proverbs 6:16-19 whiner. I have nothing to lose or gain, my intent is for you to see the problem from an objective and outside viewpoint. I will pray and hope that this will be worked out before there is serious damage done. I am deliberately brief, and probably not always right. But, I hope this helps.

Issues that need to be addressed: (As seen from the outside)
1. Senior Pastor
A. Sr. Pastor’s long term health problems and the results
Suggestion: I think for pastor’s own health and the long term health of the church he should resign.

B. Sr. Pastor’s tenure and ability to continue to lead without continual damage control.
Suggestion: If resignation is not an option then I think a definite exit strategy and plan should evolve. I would come up with a limited preaching schedule and Grace Hour schedule. He should be removed from the day to day operations of the church. He has good and bad days. It is an enviable desire to die with your boots on. But, there came a time in King David’s life that the men didn’t let him go out to war anymore. You need to do the same for pastor. Preserve and protect his legacy and life work. My memories are so fond of him; this breaks my heart to see this happening.

C. Senior Pastor’s recent careless remarks from the pulpit,” 5 men died” and the “go to hell if you don’t like it!”
Suggestion: If pastor is to preach, the three most senior elders should visit with him @ 30 minutes before service and determine if he is in a state where he can preach. If not, for everyone’s benefit another pastor should preach. Pastor, for his own protection should have to submit to this. Come up with a series of questions, etc. to determine his mental state. Every man who sits on the podium should have a sermon ready to go.

2. Elders’ Decisions
A. The lack of any public apology for any wrongs or failures or sins.
Suggestion: You need to answer the question ‘why’?

B. The silence of the Leadership and failure to address these issues.
Suggestion: Begin to dialogue through every available means. Be available and humble and transparent. On radio, church meetings, raps, etc…

C. The Elders refusal to correct Senior Pastor in love or bring before church.
Suggestion: If you love him you will do what is right. Think of Nathan. He did what was right.

D. The gross mishandling of the Paul and Mrs. Lang affair
Suggestion: If you have not read the Al Lang report it should be mandatory reading. This will give insight into the obvious outrage. It should be read in front of all the elders by Paul. Then, you should all fall on your knees and beg God for mercy and forgiveness. A statement should be read publicly rebuking and apologizing for pastor (without destroying him) and the elder council for the shameful handling of this whole sordid ordeal. A policy in writing should be established for any staff pastor caught in adultery.

E. The lack of disciplining and rebuking Paul
Suggestion: I know there is a legal agreement here. However, Paul needs to be disciplined. He acted like a spoiled little child who could hide behind his daddy and get away with conduct unbecoming a pastor. I think he should be rebuked before the church and on Grace Hour. I can’t believe that he was able to continue in the office, the Relationship Class, the Grace Hour and be a conference speaker. How you handled it was not right. I know grace and mercy, and I know that grace teaches me to deny ungodliness, not excuse it. Why not make this situation right? I wonder if other pastors facing temptation will fall because nothing happened to Paul.

F. Pastor Paul’s new church plant and the appearance of favoritism.
Suggestion: Call another man to the Senior Pastor position. Let Paul go up as the Associate for two years and then let the elders decide if he is ready for this task. Home life, etc. is all in order. This is a GGWO plant, so you are the mother church.

3. Doctrinal Issues
A. Pastoral authority and accountability, i.e. the doctrine needs revisiting.
Suggestion: I know what I am about to say is not politically correct. I know there is wiggle room in church government models. I would call several conservative seminaries, invite their best instructors in the area of church government and polity to come and teach all the staff pastors, the historical orthodox position of leadership and accountability. I would tape the sessions and make it mandatory for every branch pastor and part of the College and Seminary core class curriculum.

B. The process of marking and avoiding.
Suggestion: When do I mark and avoid? A text without a context is a pretext. Write a policy for this practice. Not everyone who disagrees is an enemy or an apostate.

C. The Geographical will of God that causes the appearance of men and women choosing the ministry over their family and ongoing divorce issues Suggestion: This needs to be carefully scrutinized.

D. The Conspiracy Doctrine.
Suggestion: Not everyone who disagrees or leaves the church is a conspirator. Drop this emphasis.

4. Policies that Cause Concerns
A. Claims of abuse of children and the allegation that background checks are not being followed up. Suggestion: If there are known child abusers working they need to be fired. No pedophile should have a second chance; they should be brought to justice and executed on CNN. Regarding background checks, produce the records that show otherwise or admit to poor handling and take corrective measures. If this was a practice I would fire the person responsible, all the way up the food chain. “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”

B. Lack of complete openness in financial issues (apart from we balance our checkbook…where does it go? Suggestion: have a monthly spreadsheet that is available to all that accounts by budget category for each area, e.g. staff salaries, medical, missions, facilities, etc…

C. Membership requirements: The bylaws of the church indicate that the only effectual members of the church are the elders and possibly the trustees and collectively they do not want help, then your church has spoken. I respect your polity but see it as very unhealthy and impractical. Ironic how we were taught body life, but the corporate expression of membership in the Baltimore church is only the elders. Every church needs leaders. Every church needs leaders to be accountable. I am praying for GGWO and my family members who attend there. They are not members, just attendees even though one is an ordained pastor. What a system! I remember what my mom taught me as a child, “Here is the church, here is the steeple, open up the doors and see all the people.” In GGWO it is “Here is the church, here is the steeple, open up the doors and see all elders.”
Suggestion: Define membership in the corporation as born again and baptism by immersion. Have an annual church meeting to cast vision, present the budget and question and answer time. Vision and direction is cast by the leadership and owned by the membership, etc.

D. Untrained pastors counseling in house instead of referring outside of the church.
Suggestion: Write a policy for the church that limits counseling and refers to several good Christian counselors in the area.

5. The current climate of the church
A. Over emphasis on congregational praise for the Sr. Pastor
Suggestion: I am glad the church loves their pastor. Every church should. Just tone it down a little.

B. The discouragement for congregants to read and discern and have Q& A forums to address issues Suggestion: Change this. Let God’s people read and discern with the same Holy Spirit that you have. Answer the questions and gently correct the wrong conclusions without vilifying and demonizing those who are not in agreement.

C. The difference between disagreeing and being negative.
Suggestion: I think we should seek understanding before being understood. This is a sore spot with many people who have left.

D. The exit of Pastor Lutz and other leaders and long term members of the church
Suggestion: If he is reconcilable than his concerns should be addressed. I would visit him and find out why he left and how you could bring him back and make him and elder. You need his voice. MBCS sure could use him. I would visit all the members who left and see if reconciliation is a possibility.

6. Other long term nagging Issues

A. The Grace Hour Format and callers gushing, etc…
Suggestion: Go back to what made this program great. Put other pastors on with pastor apart from his sons. You have some very gifted men.

B. The court trial from Lenox and undue influence.
Suggestion: If it is legally possible without damage of lawsuits, etc., admit and apologize that the church should not have taken the 5 million without husband’s consent. Good initiative but poor judgment.

C. Jack Leonard’s and others allegations of adultery in Lenox from a conversation with one of the Steven’s sons and pastor’s pressure from the trial resulting in his perjury.
Suggestion: What can I say, call Jack and seek clarification? This is on FACTNET, if true then the son who had this conversation will remember, unless Jack is a flat out liar, which does not make sense. Chase this to the ground. I am not saying this happened I am saying that it is out there as an allegation.

My analysis:
1. On the surface it appears that conflict has been ongoing because the leadership has refused/ignored or failed to address or answer these issues in a public setting.

2. Below the surface I believe these issues are the result of a flawed church government system that has given all the authority to the Sr. Pastor (whether formal or informal) without enough accountability to the church. Simply put, what I mean is, “Well he is the leader, ok.” This system has both dramatically helped and hurt the church. It helps because it is easier to get things done. When pastor is on his game, a worldwide influence is the result. When pastor is not on his game, it hurts because it is easier to have poor decisions and apparent abuses. Absolute power absolutely corrupts.

3. Therefore, I would change the system without changing the vision or the niche of the church. This will be pastor’s greatest legacy -a great church planting and soul winning vision.

4. If I were a member or branch ministry pastor I would be making some noise towards home base. How much do you think they will tolerate? Or, will people just move on?

I would advise the following steps to move forward until the return of our LORD:

1. However the elders determine to address the issues, I would have Pastor Robinson read a written statement with P. Schaller and P. Shibelli and P. Lutz (if you can reconcile with him)on stage standing next to him before the church. This statement should deal with every issue open and honestly. Make it available to the church, Grace Hour, FACTNET, Baltimore Sun, etc. Then, I would have Pastor Stevens bless it with a prayer. I think this would begin the process of healing. I base this upon my best understanding of Matthew 5:21-26. The Bible says if our brother has something against us (FACTNET posts), we are to reconcile quickly; it is about relationships in the body of Christ.

2. I think it is time for the elders to accept the inevitable. For the good of pastor and the church I would insist on some much needed changes. You need to protect him, the church and the long range health of the pastor and the 30,000 members.

3. Call an Acts 15 Jerusalem Council (Call it the Council of Baltimore) and allow every branch ministry senior pastor to participate with an equal voice. Determine an agenda to discuss the issues facing GGWO. For example, authority of a pastor vs. believer priest, double honor balanced with a servant/leader model, disciplining a pastor, how to handle criticisms vs. slander and hearsay, just to name a few. Appoint an outside conservative Christian pastor to moderate over the meeting.
A. Set aside a time for complaints. Invite, those who have a grievance to come. Listen politely and determine a course of action. Seek understanding before being understood. Both sides are so polarized. Where is the attitude of redemption and forgiveness?
B. Record everything and make it available to the membership. Produce a written statement and make it available to all via internet, Grace Hour, publications, etc.

4. Never stop winning souls!!!

5. As a friend of GGWO I offer my prayers and support as you face the future and determine God’s will for your local/worldwide ministry.

For Him,
Dave Drago
Sr. Pastor, First Baptist Church of Herculaneum-Pevely, MO. office: 636-479-9961

[RJ (151.203.157.69)]

This would work with a church Dave.

GGWO is not a church. It is a cult based upon false manipulative and malignant doctrines that have permeated the psyche of members old and new and every single leader past and present.

These changes you ennumerate would work perfectly in an unhealthy CHURCH. It would go far toward repairing the breach.

However:

1.GGWO is a CULT, recognized as such by more than one reputable organization that deals with the subject, and therefore will not be able in any way to make these changes with any success.

2.The people need exit counseling to erradicate the malignant false doctrines.

3.The elders need to also seek exit counseling and therapy for the the wrong they believe and have participated in.

4.Carl needs to be removed completely and assisted medically and emotionally.

5.The internal governmental structures and the financial abuses need to be exposed and dismantled, and proper authorities contacted if criminal actions are uncovered.

6.Branch pastors and their churches also need this overhaul and exit counseling.

7.What monies found should be spent to provide proper exit counseling and therapy to those still affected by the malignant lies and false doctrines employed by GGWO over the years to destroy families, lives, marriages, children etc.

8.Assistance for those who want to find a healthy church should be also provided with whatever funds remain.

9.The current property should be sold and the funds reaped also can be used to assist the wider congregation toward spiritual health.

10.The door should finally be closed on this cult and it's diseased and corrupted doctrines that have damaged far roo many innocent souls for far too many years.

[Anonymous (205.188.117.20)]

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[Anonymous (4.156.99.93)]

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[Anonymous (63.27.0.121)]

READ!

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[ariel (ariel)]

If your fairly new to Factnet/GGWO,
you may find the links on the postings at the top of this thread very informative,
(even if you still part of greater grace http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif)

[kbneedspeace (kbneedspeace)]

Much appreciated, ariel ... I'm reviewing all I can find to sort out the truth from the errors. It's a s-l-o-w process
KB

[polly (polly)]

:: December 05, 2002 ::
A Family cult?

Tampa parents say their children are "caught in the clutches of a cult." But rather than a group recruiting on a college campus, this "cult" was allegedly gaining members through a long-term substitute teacher at a high school, reports the St. Petersburg Times.

That high school teacher was Christine Bowen, who was subsequently fired. It seems Bowen recruited her students to attend a "bible study" led by her husband Tom Bowen, a pharmaceutical salesman.

One family said the Bowens have "stolen" their daughter.

The Bowens deny all the allegations. But historically, at least two churches have asked the couple to leave their congregations.

Some families now call the small household group the "Bowenites."

"This is a destructive religious cult," said father and psychologist Gerald Mussenden. "They basically encouraged kids to sever ties with their parents…[and]…friends."

Concerned families brought in veteran cult exit-counselor Dave Clark.

Clark has worked in the cult field for more than twenty years and is perhaps best known for his intervention regarding a member of the "Bible Speaks." He helped an heiress to a department store fortune break away from the group. That woman later won a lawsuit that claimed she was essentially "brainwashed," which bankrupted the church.

The Bible Speaks is now known as "Greater Grace World Outreach" of Baltimore, Maryland and still led by its founder Carl Stevens.

It is not unusual for destructive cults to begin very modestly, with only a handful of people and/or as a family operation. Carl Stevens began as a milkman with a supposed "gift" for bible study. Simply because a group is small, does not preclude the possibility that it is a "cult" or potentially unsafe.

And the manipulation of the bible to justify isolation, control and commitment to a particular group and/or leader is not new. Infamous cult leaders David Koresh and Jim Jones both deftly twisted scriptures out of context to achieve their ends.

Mary Alice Chrnalogar another veteran cult watcher wrote a book on this very subject titled "Twisted Scriptures" published by Zondervan Press. Within her book Chrnalogar examines in depth how destructive groups can manipulate the bible.

A tight knit group like the so-called "Bowenites" can be potentially more controlling than a larger group, due to the ever-present focus of a leader working personally with only a few individuals.

Hopefully, the concerned families in Florida will somehow work things out with their children, though one has already filed a restraining order, which would preclude contact.

[yogi (yogi)]

Read article below for more information.

www.trinityfi.org/ (http://www.trinityfi.org/)

=================================================




Religious Abuse or Fraud
Preliminary Questionnaire

If you wish to provide a completely anonymous tip, please click here.
The following abuse questionnaire will provide us your contact information and some additional information which will help combat a growing problem of religious fraud from televangelists or fake religious investment schemes. You have entered a confidential, secured site. Your answers will be kept confidential and are password protected from outside and inside the Trinity Foundation. Questionnaires will be kept confidential unless otherwise directed by you. The only mandatory information required in the process of filling out this form is your contact information; however, the more information you give us, the more it will help us with ongoing investigations and possible future changes to laws governing the airwaves and financial transactions. In case of difficulty filling out this form, you may as a last resort, email the Trinity Foundation at abuse@trinityfi.org or call toll free 1-800-229-8428 and leave a message. The submission of this questionnaire will generate an automatic email response letting you know we received it and will be followed up by a phone call, usually within a few days, but possibly up to a week after completing the form.
We cannot investigate all persons or organizations listed as the perpetrators of the abuse described within these questionnaires.

CONFIDENTIAL




March 8, 2005, 1:38 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ministry or Person Being Reported:

Where is the ministry or person located? Please be as specific as possible.



Your Name
First Name:
Last Name:
Address1:
Address2:
City:
Province / State:
Country:
Postal / Zip:
Phone: () example: (306) 555-1212


Victim Information


First Name of victim if other than yourself:
Last Name of victim if other than yourself:
Relationship of the victim to you:
Address1:
Address2:
City:
Province / State:
Country:
Postal / Zip:
Phone: () example: (306) 555-1212

Age of Victim:
Sex of Victim: Male Female
Convenient Time to Call:
Please summarize your story:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. When did you first have contact with the ministry or person (best guess is OK) ?

2. What attracted or appealed to you?


3. What was your need or emotional condition at the time?


4. Is this ministry or person presently on the air? Yes No

5. When and where did you last see, hear, or attend the program, seminar, crusade, etc.?


6. a) When did you last contact this ministry or person?
b) When did they last contact you?
c) Have you kept your letters, requests, or written answers to your prayers or any records of correspondence to you from the ministry or person?
Yes No
d) If yes, would you provide us copies or allow us to copy and return the originals?
Yes No

7. a) Did they make a specific promise that was not fulfilled?
Yes No
b) If yes, what promise did they make?

c) If Yes, was this promise made to you in a broadcast, in printed material or in person? Please choose.. a broadcast printed material in person
d) If by broadcast, on what program did they make this promise? If possible, include the date, time and channel it was aired on.

e) If by printed material, do you still have a copy of it?
Yes No
f) If by broadcast, do you have a recording of it?
Yes No

8. a) What is the approximate value of the money/property you donated/invested to this ministry/person?

b) Can you verify and have you kept records of this?
Yes No
c) If necessary, would you furnish us copies of your cancelled checks or money order receipts that you donated/invested to this ministry/person?
Yes No

9. a) Did you make this donation/investment upon reliance of their specific promise?
Yes No
b) Did they tell you that you had to make this donation/investment in order for them to fulfill their promise to you?
Yes No
c) Did you believe that you had to make the donation/investment in order for them to fulfill their promise to you?
Yes No
d) Were you told or made to feel that if you Did Not donate/invest, you would fall out of God's favor?
Yes No

10. a) Would you release to us your annual income?
Yes No
b) If so, what was your annual income at the time this happened?

c) What is your most recent annual income?


11. a) Have you ever received any type of welfare?
Yes No
b) If so, what type?
c) For how long?
d) How much?

12. How has this experience affected your faith?


13. a) Do you think that this ministry/person is doing some good?
Yes No
b) In what way or ways?


14. Would you support more public accountability of ministries/persons like this?
Yes No

15. a) Would you be willing to join a civil suit against this organization/person in which you might or might Not receive compensation for the alleged damage that was done to you? Yes No
b) If Yes, do you understand that by joining such a suit you will probably be asked to testify in open court or by deposition and that your name could be in the paper or on the news? Yes No

16. Do you intend to or have you taken any legal action? Yes No

17. From time to time we are contacted by members of the media looking for names of people who are victims. May we have your permission to give them your name? Yes No

18. a) Do you know of anyone else that has been injured that might want to talk to us? Yes No
b) If so would you furnish them our contact information?
Yes No

19. Would you be willing to write a letter to the legal authorities about your experience with or concerns about this ministry/person? Yes No

20. a) Have you ever been employed by the ministry/person being Reported? Yes No
b) What was your title?
c) What was your job?
d) Who was your immediate supervisor?
e) At which location?
f) What was your salary?
g) What time period did you work for this ministry/person?
From to

21. Why did you leave?


22. Any other remarks?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I have reviewed my answers and comments above and state that they are true to the best of my knowledge and remembrance." Yes No

[hodeuon (hodeuon)]

bump

[isabella (isabella)]

BUMP

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

Bump!

[eduardo (eduardo)]

.

[calv (calv)]

b

[ariel (ariel)]

If your new to this discussion board, these links at the top of the page are a synopsis of Greater Grace and why it hates FactNet.
So.. 'dont be hatin' just read on, form your own opinions and then add your own comments on one of these many lovely threads,

If your a GGWO Pastor reading this ....
I promise I won't tell Carl !
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[ralphwells (ralphwells)]

Ariel, you are tooooooooo cool girl!

[anon_brief (anon_brief)]

Up.

[jeannie (jeannie)]

and another bump

[isabella (isabella)]

This thread doesn't seem to move up when we bump it now.

Trying to get it to the top by writing something other than . or bump or up.

[boss_martian (boss_martian)]

Rockin' good news!

[whitehorses (whitehorses)]

since we seem to be getting a rash of new posters (and lurkers in abundance im sure... welcome all...the hostile and the peaceful) seemingly from GG looking for answers, i thought i would boost this sucker back up to the top

[ski (ski)]

bump

[ariel (ariel)]

New Readers

It may make things easier to understand if you start by reading the links at the top of this thread.

WARNING; some of the content is for mature audienceshttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

Consult with your doctor first
(and I DONT mean 'Dr.' Stevens!?#)
because
(A) reading Factnet/GGWO can be habit forming
and addictive.
and
(B) you will need a prescription to contain
your bowels, once you start
reading some of these stories
you will **** your pants.

[pressing_on (pressing_on)]

Ariel your to muchhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[whitehorses (whitehorses)]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[myself (myself)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
B
U
M
P
</font>}

[myself (myself)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
B
-U
--M
---P
</font>}

[still_in_pa (still_in_pa)]

BUMPIZZLE

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Topside,NOW!

LOL


</font>}

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
bump
</font>}

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
bump
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[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="+2">
.

</font></font></font>

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
bump

</font>}

[jayso (jayso)]

IMO, the most helpful information comes from the true testimonies of those who EXPERIENCED TBS/GG for themselves. Check out the "Stories" thread on FactNet...http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/8056.html?1117125045

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
It's always good to know what's happening.

</font>}

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
bump
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[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
.

</font>}

[bob_brinton (bob_brinton)]

bump. Here you go - relevancy.

[redsnapper]

>>>

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>bump for Coral.

</font>}

[countdown]

This is the book of Adam's generations. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him. 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot [a son] in his likeness, after his image, and called his name Seth. 4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years; and he begot sons and daughters. 5 And all the days of Adam that he lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died. 6 And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. 7 And Seth lived after he had begotten Enosh eight hundred and seven years, and begot sons and daughters. 8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died. 9 And Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. 10 And Enosh lived after he had begotten Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begot sons and daughters. 11 And all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died. 12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalaleel. 13 And Cainan lived after he had begotten Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begot sons and daughters. 14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died. 15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. 16 And Mahalaleel lived after he had begotten Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters. 17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died. 18 And Jared lived a hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. 19 And Jared lived after he had begotten Enoch eight hundred years, and begot sons and daughters. 20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died. 21 And Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methushelah. 22 And Enoch walked with God after he had begotten Methushelah three hundred years, and begot sons and daughters. 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. 25 And Methushelah lived a hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lemech. 26 And Methushelah lived after he had begotten Lemech seven hundred and eighty-two years, and begot sons and daughters. 27 And all the days of Methushelah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died. 28 And Lemech lived a hundred and eighty-two years, and begot a son. 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This [one] shall comfort us concerning our work and concerning the toil of our hands, because of the ground which Jehovah has cursed

[dinaweena]

hey countdown- I'm kind of wondering what the point of your posts is? I mean, I have a Bible of my own....

[sidethorn]

Oh countdown - do you have any comments of your own that you would like to add? I mean this is a discussion board for anyone to post their thoughts, or do you just want to take up board space with Scripture that doesn't even apply to the thread's topic a lot of the time????? Oh, are you one of those Scripture posters from a number of months ago??? Come on, instead of just posting Scripture, lets get some discussion going.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
bump

</font>}

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
.</font>}

[jenny]

.

[jenny]

.

[jenny]

.

[jenny]

Have a blessed Christmas!

[jenny]

.

[jenny]

.

[nwmomike]

Jenny,
Hi stranger http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif Hope you are doing ok? I've had a hard time getting into Factnet over the past months. Couldn't reset my pw, reactivate or nothing. How are you and your family doing?

Michael

[whatsup]

hello Michael, I remember your posts on Factnet and I always liked them...do you have an email

[nwmomike]

Yes nwmomike at hotmail

Michael

[nwmomike]

Jenny?

[sister_mary]

GGWO has washed their face! A new strategy has come into the organization this year: openness policy! GGWO loves to work in and outside USA, because translucency brings credibility:

USA:
http://travel.webshots.com/album/427623435bnIFyo


Africa
http://www.ggwo.com/missions/africa/

Ghana: http://www.webshots.com/explains/travel/african.html

Liberia:
http://travel.webshots.com/album/553592997xodMqI

India:
http://www.orphansfirst.org/locality/india.html

etc...

Maybe openness brings also hopes that soon GGWO will be accepted into the list of safe denominations:

http://www.ggwo.com/missions/news/2006/Oct2006_Missions_Office_Team.html

So maybe it is time to bury tomahawks???

[redsnapper]

>>

[anon_brief]

bump

[nwmomike]

I was checking back here. Still haven't heard from much of anyone. Hoping to connect back and get updates, etc. Guess I'll have to start digging through all the posts again.

Michael

[johncollins]

I was checking back here. Still haven't heard from much of anyone. Hoping to connect back and get updates, etc. Guess I'll have to start digging through all the posts again.

Michael

Michael -- who were you hoping to hear from, and what sort of updates are you looking for? Have you visited DiscussGGWO (http://s10.invisionfree.com/DiscussGGWO/index.php?act=idx) recently? Quite a bit of activity there...

John