Hawaii churches

[sharise (sharise)]

Well the Maui church won its battle to build a facility in a neighborhood on agriculturally zoned land. I don't know whether that's a good or bad thing.

http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=3340

Interesting though, that they're going to be building here along with the recent purchase for $5.9 million and construction of a chapel in Honolulu. That is, all the money that's going into real estate in beautiful Hawaii while so many of the local churches in less desireable states have closed down over the last ten years.

http://www.choi-realty.com/listings/portlock/5275k.html
http://starbulletin.com/2003/07/26/features/story1.html
http://geocities.com/gchonolulu/index.htm

I forgot G&M's purchase of a home a couple years ago in Honolulu, I think, for $2 million.

It will be interesting to see if these links stay active, as they have disappeared in the past after being posted on this public board.

Also, of course the massive development project going on in Brazil. Eleven new houses being built (the grandest being G&M's), and a new sanctuary as well.

I don't want to hurt the good people in the church, but the focus seems skewed towards grandeur.

[sharise (sharise)]

When I read about things like the following, it makes me sad.

http://www.hud.gov/local/hi/working/nlwin2003.cfm

Apparently Grace Chapel of Honolulu has teamed up with the city to give their disadvantaged youths the "opportunity" to help rebuild the church's property after purchasing it as an old tennis club. The youths can help with "...and help with digging, watering, fertilizing, raking, and planting." Sound like free labor??? In return the church will provide "... services, including mentoring youth who need one-on-one guidance and encouragement, tutoring, or landscaping training activities. In return, the Church members receive the opportunity to help these youth and young adults gain self-respect, a feeling of belonging to the community, and hope for a better future..." The above statement is what really scares me. Seeing the destruction that the church has caused in all of our lives. Then to open less privileged kids up to that same destruction, it's very sad.

I'm sure that the lower level church members involved have the best intentions as regards these kids. It's just the upper level and those who make the rules that I don't trust.

I think if the church really wanted to help these kids, they would forego the building of their own church on their $5.9 million lot with free kid labor, and go out into the community and help the community build their projects.

[ceebups (ceebups)]

One of my biggest concerns about the church, and the reason that I limit the involvement of my kids, is the introverted focus of the church. There is very little commitment to the community or the local area around each church. This may be the reason that many local churches had to close down. It has an inbreeding feel to it.

[mike_j (mike_j)]

"Grace Chapel of Honolulu, associated with the Living Word Fellowship churches, has served Hawaii's young people and their families since 1953. Individual integrity, family wholeness, and fulfilling, honest, and loving relationships are the focus of the 80-member congregation's activities and daily lifestyle."

Hmmm...
I have no comment to make at this time.


Mike
(relationship counselor to Kobe Bryant)

[mike_j (mike_j)]

On second thought, if the church is built around the likes of Jeremy Gruenberg, John Eckstrom etc., then I wouldn't mind seeing disadvantaged young adults sent to the place. Let's hope so--that they're not merely operating as figureheads.

Mike

[marilyn (marilyn)]

yup, this sounds like tlw and shiloh all over again--
let's see, isn't this how they got to the 3rd generation, and now, oh no, here comes the forth. free labor. after shiloh and being forced to worked out in the fields and give all my families money away to mh, i mean, the lord, i have never again mown a lawn, nor pulled a weed, or even barely washed a dish. and i abhor giving my money away for worthy causes that buy other people great homes, and i don't have to tell you the rest. i just read the above. oh my god, marilyn, how long must you torture the kids, let alone, no, stealing's the wrong word, for we freely gave, but we entrusted you with our money and our lives, and we were no better off than jim jones followers. koolaide will be supplied to the kids for all their hard work, of course.

[xwalkie (xwalkie)]

I forgot G&M's purchase of a home a couple years ago in Honolulu, I think, for $2 million.

They have two in North Hollywood I beleive.

[momster]

That place in Aina Haina is obscene. Who actually owns it? I attended the site on Maui last week. Acres and acres of gated land. What's the point of spending more and more money on lavish property? What will happen to all the property in Hawaii, California, Brazil and Iowa when the Hargraves pass on? Wouldn't it be nice if a little of the money they collect, and the labor they furnish would help less fortunate people.

[changedagain]

For all the financial 'transparency' that TLWF provides itself in, I suspect that most members have no idea what the Hargraves are really worth.
And I think to even question their motives is considered blasphemy within the ranks, since the people have been taught to view them as God's anointed. I have no doubt on paper there is a check and balance system in place...but just about everyone that has had anything to do with TLWF government knows that it is exceptionally rare for their viewpoint to be challenged with any effectiveness, and the person doing the challenge remain in any kind of good standing.
Yes, the Hargraves undoubtedly put in long hours with church related business, but it's clear they are not hurting materially for all their work--unlike many others that have donated their time, energy, money as selfless servants through the years.
Perhaps they should review Jesus' command to the rich young ruler who wished to be perfect.

[changedagain]

"That place in Aina Haina is obscene"

Momster,
Where is Aina Haina? And what do you mean it is 'obscene'? Are you saying it is lavish?

[momster]

Yes, it is even more than lavish. Aina Haina is a suburb of Honolulu. The "property", as they call it, is a few feet from the ocean with a swimming pool between the building and ocean. It's a former health club. The members have built on a sanctuary with their own labor, making it even more valuable. I think the use of this deluxe facility is one of the perks to keep members coming to socialize. They have fun and make friends so enjoy going there. They don't think about who owns the place.

[changedagain]

It is disheartening, Momster. But, as you said, perhaps many of the people are content--even out of familiarity--living their lives that way. Personally I've decided to no longer put any more energy into anything TLWF related. I'm signing off indefinitely.
If I'm harrassed for anything...I may return ;)

[winterland]

The lamp of Ikea is going out.