John 316 Mark 161618 do you believe [Archive]

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-20-2005, 10:11 PM

My point is, Jesus said if you were a believer. In other words a born again christian. Then the five signs in Mark would follow you.

Christ cut it pretty close when he said it. Believers(born again christians) that are to be saved would have these signs follow them.

Now there are different members of the body. Each one with a different function. So of course everyone won't do theses things. But, someone in their church or group should be.

If you are not in a place and assembley where these things are taking place. Maybe you are in the wrong place.

I notice a lot of people react out of insecurity when someone mentions the signs. And, there is no need. If you seek the Lord he will give you gifts of miracles and things. But, only if you ask earnestly and not seeking to lift yourself up. Because if you do that way. You will never get.

And, it has to be by faith. Don't ask to see if he will give it to you. But, ask knowing he will give it to you.

And, if the scripture did belong or did not mean what it says. Then christians wouldn't have the power to do these things. There would have never been a healing in a service. Never been a devil cast out. Never been a serpent takien up. Because, man can do nothing on his own. But, the Father in him can do the works. If you are born of God's Spirit. He abides in you. The same Spirit that was in Jesus raising up the dead. Is in you. And, the things Jesus done so can you if you believe you can thru the power of the Holy Ghost.

I don't understand why others would not want to partake of the power of the Holy Ghost. Not only the power, but, the love and joy it gives you when it uses you to do it's will.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-20-2005, 11:03 PM

There was a little church in Tennesee. And, the people there were just regular old hard working people. They came to church to praise their God. To give him honor and praise. Just good old christian people. Honest and sincere as they could be. This is arounf 1969-70.

At that time a few members had went to a church that had handled serpents. Now the little church there had heard of it but never done it or seen it done. So the people there put a fleece out to the Lord. They asked him if he wanted them to take up serpents. And, if he did, to send them a sign. They said send them a snake. But, to know it is really you. Let there be oil around it.

The next week or so, they were having service. And, the pastors daughter went to go to the restroom. On her way out, there was a copperhead laying in the doorway.

It startled her of course, and she ran back in telling everyone. During this the copperhead crawled outside. The elders then went out to look for it. And, they found it in a puddle of oil. Just like they had asked for it to be if God want ed them to handle snakes.

Someone got a paper bag(that was all they had) and put the snake in it with a stick. The Pastor then took it in the church where service continued. Then the Holy Ghost moved on him stronger than he had ever felt in his life. And, he reached in the bag and pulled out the copperhead and handled it.

After that the church members knew that is what mark 16 meant. And, they started to catch and bring in serpents. The church has now branched off into two or three different churches. All of which handle serpents to this day.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-20-2005, 11:40 PM

The first rattler I ever handled was in a little holiness church in Nc. I had handled a copperhead before, but, never a rattler. This church was pastored by a friend of mine. And, he had invited me to come that night. So my wife and I went. I took a little snake to show him A Lyre snake. It is just a small rear fanged snake. Nothing like a rattler.

Anyway, the service started with prayer as usual. Everyone gets on their knees as an act of humlity to the Lord. After prayer, the music starts. Another brother from Old Fort was there. He pastors a holiness church up there. He is a great piano player and singer.

The music is loud and fast paced. Before long some of the sisters are dancing in the Spirit in front of the pulpit. My wife and I stand. After a couple of minutes the Spirit moves on me and I begin to dance. This goes on for about an hour. With periods of laying on of hands. And, speaking in tongues and prophesying. All going on at the same time.

After the music stops, there are a few testimonies including mine. Then My friend begins preaching a message about the Great Love of God. It is a good message. Afterward, the music starts again. It is now about two hours into the service and I am tired. So My wife and I are sitting down. My friend is walking around playing a tambourine. When the Spirit moves on him real strong. He beigns to sway and stagger. He gets up in the pulpit and goes completely out in the Spirit. He is now laying in the pulpit.

The music is still playing, when I start to think of the serpent box laying under a bench in the pulpit. I tell the Lord I really don't want to handle any right now. But, if you lead me to I will. But, let Bryan(my friend) go to the box first. About the time that thought is in my head. Bryan awakes from being out in the Spirit and reaches for the wooden box under the pew containing a four and a half foot grey timber rattler from georgia.

All of a sudden something jerks me up from my seat and pulls me to the side of the pulpit. Bryan is laying in the floor as he flips open the lid and pulls out this huge rattler. I am dancing just a few feeat away. The pulpit is higher than the floor and there is three steps leading up into it. As he is sitting there in the floor. Holding this rattler with its head facing me. I begin to walk up the st eps. And, I am not doing it at all. It was like my body was moving on its own. I walked right up and took the rattler out of his hand.

I held it up and looked in its face. Everything, the music and all seemed to fade away. All that was there was me and the rattler. He looked at me and I looked at him. Konwing neither one of us was in any danger whatsoever. He didn't fear me and I didn't fear him. Because, I was in the Spirit of God. And, God is love. And, perfect love casteth out all fear.

I held him for quite a while. By then, Bryan had gotten up and was in front of me. I handed it back to him and stepped off the pulpit. He walked over to the podium and began to dance in a circle with the rattler falling limp like it was dead from the power of the Spirit. After a few minutes he put the rattler back up.

I have also handled fire the same way. We were in service and Bryan was under the anointing heavy. He told me to go get the fire bottle from the pulpit. I had no intention of handling it whatsoever. But, when I lit the torch. I felt the Lord move on me and my hand went right into the flames. I let it lick in and out of my fingers. The flames burn cold. It feels like someone blowing on your hand.

Bryan comes up to me and puts his hands in the flame. Then he pulls up his shirt sleeve and takes the torch. He puts the torch up agaisnt his fore arm and dances with the flame right against his bare wrist and forearm.

I then feel moved to get the torch. I get it and put my hand back in it. Never taking it out. Letting the flames roll around my palm. Bryan sits down on the pulpit and takes off his shoes and socks. He raises his feet. I put the flame to his bare feet. His hands raised in the air and him praising God. I hold it threr for two or three minutes. He then gets up and starts to dance. I don't feel the anointing anymore so I blow out the flame and out up the torch.

In the same service the Lord led me while I was dancing to lay hands on this elderly lady and pray for her. So I obeyed him. When I was thru she began to dance and praise the Lord. Afterward she testified that she was hurting real bad. But, when i laid hands on her the pain left right then.

When service was over this older women came over and shook my hand. While she did she looked at it to see if I was burned. Of course I wasn't but she wanted to see. Her family was visiting there and they had always heard of people handling fire but had never seen it. They still testify about it.

gsrh (gsrh)

04-21-2005, 01:43 AM

wow!

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-21-2005, 06:21 PM

When I was first baptized with the Holy Ghost. God started to give me messages to teach. One of those were that Jesus is the Spirit in me. And, his Spirit would confirm His Word. So if I prayed a prayer of faith, and, the Holy Ghost moved on me. I knew that prayer would be answered.

Example:

My dad's cousin is a bad alchoholic. He has been hospitalized at near death quite a few times. One particular time was right after I had been baptized with the Holy Ghost. He had ruptured some veins in his lungs and he was bleeding to death.

His duaghter called for me and my dad to come and pray for him. So we went. On the way I kept telling myself what the Lord had showed me. So my faith was really strong.

When we got there he was completely out of his mind. He didn't even know who he was. He was talking out of his head from all the blood he had lost.(a small trash can full) So Dad and me got ready to pray for him and the power goes out in the hospital. In the dark we lay hands on him and begin to pray. The Holy Ghost starts to move on us and all you could hear was us speaking in tongues in the dark.

Afterward I told her that he was going to be alright. The doctor said he was gonna die. He had hepatitus c for almost two years and his liver was completly gone. But, I told her God moved and it was going to be all right.

We went home and the next morning they called and he was in his right mind. Sitting up and eating ice cream. The bleeding had stopped on its own.

The dpctors proceeded to do blood tests. But, could find no trace of hepatitis. Even though his medical records of the past two years said he had it.

Since the bleeding had stopped and there was no hep. The doctors did a surgery on him repairing the open vessels. And, he is alive today.

doug (doug)

04-27-2005, 04:22 AM

Jason,
I certainly understand that God is God and Jesus is the son of God. Of this I have no doubt but of my own faith I have doubt and wonder if I can be saved. I serve God because He is good though I be wrong I know He is good. How do I believe? How does one believe or know that they believe?

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-27-2005, 07:37 PM

My wife has a hard time with these same questions. The only thing I can say is just believe and not doubt. If you say you believe and then doubt. You don't really believe.

If you believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And, you seek God continually. He will give it to you.
Then, if you believe in tongues and pray for it. He will give it to you. If you believe in taking up serpents, and you want to partake of it. He will let you.

The only condition is is that you deny yourself. Deny yourself the things you want to do, in order to do want Jesus wants you to do.

You have to love Him enough to be obedient no matter what. Even if your friends turn on you, or, your family. You have to love him more than even your own life.

To take up serpents all it takes is believing in it and being around it. Example, a professor, from tennessee or Kentucky one, was writing a book on the subject. While he was with that particular group he came to believe in it himself.

And, to their surprise, he became a handler himself. They thought it strange that a worldy man like him could take up serpents as well as they did. All it takes is to believe in it.

There was a Baptisit minister that came to church before my Dad was a member. He came there just to see(try the spirit). After service was about over he stood up and testified. He said he told the Lord that if it was real then he would handle one himself. And, he said he knew it was real. So, he came up to the front and told them to get him one out( a little unorthodox but they obliged). They got otu a black rattler and the Lord let him handle it.

I would like to say a few things about faith if I may. If something is right in front of your face. And, you can see it and touch it. It doesn't take to much faith to believe in it.

But, if you will look at Jesus during his ministry. He wasn't viewed as we look at him. When someone believed on this man, who the religious people called the devil, they were using a faith we can hardly comprehend.

He was a man saying he was the son of God. The people who were supposed to know God hated him and called him crazy and of the devil. But, when one little blind man sitting in the street. Heard about this man everyone was talking about. Hearing about the things he did. Even though the top religious people said he was false. That blind man believed. His faith had something to work against. He had to believe despite all the bad things being said. Despite being thrown out the church(synagogue). He had to believe over all those things. And, when Jesus past by. He began to cry out to him. A cry of faith. Jesus heard him and asked him what he wanted. He said his sight. Jesus asked him if he believed he was able to heal him. (HERE IS FAITH) With everyone watching. In the midst of the people. Even though his family would turn on him. He said yes. And, he recieved his sight.

It doesn't take a lot of faith to believe in something that a majority of people believe in. It takes faith to believe in something everyone else says is wrong. Even though you know it isn't. It takes faith when people say what you do is of the devil. Even though you know it isn't.

It would be easy to give in and succumb to people. To give up what you believe in order to fit in with the majority. But, what good is that? You don't have faith if you do that. You decieve your own self.

When I have a serpent in a box. And, someone comes by. An, they begin to down serpent handling. That start to tell me its wrong and its of the devil. My faith has something to work against. The harder they come against it the more my faith is strengthened. And, my faith is what brings on my anointing. So as they are telling me it is wrong. My faith in believing its right begins to bring the Spirit upon me. And, them the Lord will lead me to take it up. And, even though they wish you would get bit.(and they do, they would like to see hurt or dead). You can handle it without harm becuase of the anointing of the Holy Ghost that came upon you becuase of your faith.

My point being this, it takes faith to believe the deep things of God. It takes faith to believe something everyone says is wrong. Even though YOU KNOW it is right.

It takes faith to truly believe in the supernatural things of God. Becuase the majority of christians don't. They are happy to live how they want and go to church. But, they never partake of the power of God. I have read old christian letters. And, one that stuck out to me was this man wrote, if you bare the name, but, don't bare the power, you bare the name in vain.

I gladly give up my worldy sinful life to partake of the sweet power of the Holy Ghost. I would rather have that than have things of the world and not have it.

godchild (godchild)

04-27-2005, 08:06 PM

Christ also said if you have faith you can move a mountain. I don't hear of snake handlers moving mountains by faith. That would really impress on people the power of your faith.
I just don't believe such things are necessary to express our faith. Our love for someone who has done a wrong to us is an expression of faith. And there are many more examples that don't require 'a side-show' menatality. You have every right to do as you please, but nobody is expected to do this to show they have faith.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-27-2005, 10:43 PM

If a person actually had unwavering faith they could move a mountain. Even that is out of my reach at this present time.
Thank you for the side show remark. Paul said he was made a spectacle.

And, you don't do it to show faith. You do it being obedient to the Holy Ghost. It takes faith to be obedient.

And, when I say give up a worldy sinful life, what do you think I mean?

Taking up serpents isn't meant to impress anyone. It is meant to draw people. Just like a sign n front of a store. Once people come they have to hear the word of God. Hopefully they will believe and be converted.

The signs are not the Gospel. They are the signs of the Gospel. If you preach the Gospel, and, you are a believer. The signs will follow you as Jesus said. It is his words no matter wht people say. It is his Spirit that leads us and protects us.

I agree with you about loving someone who has done wrong to you. That is a great expression of faith. It is a fruit and gift of the Holy Ghost.
So is the gift of miracles, the gift of prophecy, healing, faith, and so on. It all has to do with your faith. If you believe in these things, and, desire them. You can seek God and he will give them to you.

As far as my mentality goes. I do not put on a show. In YOUR opinion I put on a show. Was Christ putting on a show when he did his miracles? Where the seventy sent out to preach putting on a show when they healed the sick and cast out devils?

One more quick thing. A man was serpent bit a few yeas ago. He came to church with his girlfriend. And, he was wanting to show off for her like he was some big time thing. He even brought a camera to take pictures while he showed off.

The service started and a couple of brothers had been moved by the Holy Ghost and handled the rattlers. Then this man decided he was going to go up there to handle them. He thought there was nothing to it and anyone could do it. So he was going to show off how he could do it.

Well, he got it out alright. And, it sunk its fangs into him and pumped him full of venom. His girlfriend took him to the hospital, and, after being treated he was fine.

If I was doing it as a show I would be doing in the FLESH. The flesh has no power over that serpent. That is why he got bit. Thinking there was nothing to it. He got up there in the FLESH and tried to copy the SPIRIT. And, he almost died.

Point being, if I was putting on a show I would be dead right now.

overseas (overseas)

04-28-2005, 07:09 PM

Some people think they have the gift to handle snakes. I think I have the gift to tell them they are wrong, in case they don't realise this is tempting the Lord or wanna make it a rule for all beleivers.

overseas (overseas)

04-28-2005, 07:11 PM

just_curious (just_curious)

04-28-2005, 07:25 PM

Overseas,
Thank you for using your gift to edify the body of Christ.

Jason,
How does the "gift" of handling serpents edify anyone? When did Jesus ever perform gratuitous miracles just for the sake of performing a miracle?

carlota (carlota)

04-28-2005, 07:41 PM

Did anyone see the show (I think it was 20/20 or 60 minutes- whichever one is on NBC) last night that featured a segment about serpent handlers. Before that segment was one about exorcisms. It was all pretty creepy stuff. Did anyone see it besides me?

At any rate, the segment about serpent handlers included a man who was a "non-believer" who joined a small church that regularly handled serpents as part of their worship, in order to write an article about it. He became enthralled with the act of handling serpents, partook of the ritual on a number of occasions and began to slowly lose touch with his life outside the church, including his wife and children and family.

He likened the experience of handling serpents to any other kind of risk-involving experience that produces a sort of "high", like sky-diving, car racing etc. He became addicted to the "high" it gave him to put himself at risk by handling deadly snakes.

Interesting stuff.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-28-2005, 07:46 PM

If you had the Spirit of God, then your Spirit would agree with the Word. Was Peter tenpting God whe he jumped out on the sea?

It edifies my faith. It also edifies the churches faith. To see God work thru you is a powerful tool of edification.

Jesus performed many miracles. Becuase, people believed on him(faith). His fame went all around or have you not read your bible? He didn't do to saying here look at me. He did them because people had faith in him.

People came to the apostles as well. They came from all around to see Paul, Peter, and the rest.

When people has come to my church, not to believe, but just to see if we would take up serpents. God wouldn't move on us and we couldn't take one up if we wanted to.

It is the Father in us that does the works. So when you try to fight it. Your are not fighting me. Your fighting God.

Overseas, you said you "think" you have the gift to tell me you are wrong. You might "think" a lot of things. But, I KNOW I can take up serpents with the leadership of the Holy Ghost.

doug (doug)

04-30-2005, 03:47 AM

Godchild and Jason
Faith to move mountains
Matthew 21:18 Now in the morning as he returned to the city, he hungered. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only; and he said unto it, Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away. 20 And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How did the fig tree immediately wither away? 21 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do what is done to the fig tree, but even if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea, it shall be done. 22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matthew 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (Or, a trumpet of great sound), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now from fig tree learn her parable; when her branch has now become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near; 33 even so, you also, when you see all these things, know also that he (Or, it) is near, even at the doors.

Mark 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come out of Bethany, he hungered. 13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for it was not the season of figs. 14 And he answered and said unto it, no man eat fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And his disciples heard it.
Mark 11:20 And as they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away from the roots. 21 And Peter calling to remembrance said unto him, Rabbi, behold the fig tree which thou cursed is withered away. 22 And Jesus answering said unto them, Have faith in God. 23 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he said comes to pass; he shall have it. 24 Therefore I say to you, All things whatsoever you pray and ask for, believe that you receive (Or, received) them, and you shall have them. 25 And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have aught against anyone; that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespass (Many ancient authorities add verse 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your trespass. Compare Mt. 6.15;18,35)

Luke 21:29 And he spoke to them a parable: behold the fig tree, and all the other trees: 30 when they now shoot forth, you see it and know of your own selves that the summer is now near.

Mark 13:28 -
`
Luke 13:6,7?

John 1:48,50

Rev 6:12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earth quake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casts her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind. 14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and Island was moved out of their places.

When I read about Yeshua cursing the fig tree I knew there was more to it than being angry because he wanted to eat figs because Mark 11:13 said “for it was not the season of figs”. Why would he expect figs before the time of figs? Mathew 24:32 Now from fig tree learn her parable; when her branch has now become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near; 33 even so, you also, when you see all these things, know also that he (Or, it) is near, even at the doors.
I knew it had to do with prophecy or revelation of truth, the testimony of Yeshua being the spirit of prophecy. In the same settings in Mathew, Mark and Luke were similar things to Revelation 6:12.

Besides Rev 6 “the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth” being related to Matthew 24:29 “the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light", and "the stars shall fall from heaven”
Rev 6 “as a fig tree casts her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind“. and “every mountain and Island was moved out of their places” relates to “the fig tree which thou cursed is withered”-”Whosoever shall say unto <u>this</u> mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea”
He’s not giving a faith in faith teaching but speaking about something prophetic or some deeper spiritual truth.

It would be too difficult to explain all my thoughts on the fig tree but it relates to what I shared with you about the "backwards walk". The tree of knowledge of good and evil is symbolized by a fig. I once heard a rabbi say “they covered themselves with fig leaves because none of the other trees would protect them any more“.
Luke 21:29 “behold the fig tree, and all the other trees” may have something to do with the backward walk. Our father does not do the same thing twice. He judged man with a tree and left a Cherubim and a sword. He judged man by a flood and left a rainbow. He judged the people of Israel by the law and left the law crucified in Messiah, not divorced from it but dead in the flesh and the elect married to Messiah Yeshua. “all the other trees” being the law and the flood with the tree of knowledge of good and evil last.

I suppose you could look at it in many ways. Perhaps when you see it looking like the law is being reestablished, the temple rebuilt, and the polar caps are melting and the sea roaring threatening a worldwide flood destroying all life and the genetic code unraveled by doctors and scientists discovering how to live forever and overcome the restraints of sin without being free from sin look up for your salvation because Yahveh will not allow there trees to bear fruit. That is where I tend to go with it.

doug (doug)

04-30-2005, 03:58 AM

The Backward walk
The idea about the backwards walk of Messiah started when I was listening to a song, a man wrote for his wedding I believe, called -

"On Wounded Feet"
See the wounds in Jesus feet
Gaze upon them as they bleed
God from heaven come down to meet
Broken mankind's deepest need

See the wounds in Jesus hands
Hands spread out as to embrace
Hearts of men with sin grown cold
Hearts that still refuse his grace

See the wound in Jesus side
From the spear we thrust into his heart
Nature sees and shakes with fear
Mountains trembling break apart

Now the sun refuses to shine
Even heaven must turn its head
Angels tremble at the sight
Is the son of God now dead?

No God's son now crucified
Triumphs over sin and death
Of his rib God forms a bride
Quickens her with holy breath

You who pierced him look and grieve
He desires you as his wife
And to all who will believe
Jesus gives eternal life

Angels wept to see him die
Nature shook to hear him call
Shall our hardened hearts deny
Him our life our love our all.

I have heard it said that "repent" means to go back along the lines you came but I don't know where the teaching is derived from.

THE EXPRESSED IMAGE
In the Old Testament man was judged by a tree "of knowledge of good and evil". A cherubim with a sword that goes every way like a flame (time?) guarded man in the likeness of Adam from going back and eating of the tree of life.
Then man was judged by a flood. It rained 40 days and nights and a dove and raven were sent up from the ark. There was a rainbow to show that we would not be judged by water any more.
Then the children of Israel were elected by God and given the law which, as I see it brought condemnation on everyone but Christ Jesus whose crucifixion was a sign that man would not be judged by the law again. The law, perfected in him, was nailed to the cross in him, agreed to by the ones who were trusted to keep it (but didn't).

THE BACKWARD WALK OF CHRIST JESUS
Jesus went in reverse through the history in the 5 books of Moses summarized above.

The Law
First he obeyed the law in the Torah living in submission to his parents.

The Flood
Then he went back before the law to the flood. In the flood it rained 40 days and nights and a dove and a raven were sent up from the Ark of Noah.
Jesus went into the water and the holy spirit descended on him like a dove and he went into the wilderness 40 days and 40 nights.
The dove is the holy spirit.
The raven is the spirit of Elijah. Elijah was fed by ravens of the brook during the famine. Elijah was to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers. In proverbs it said the eye that mocks at his father and despises to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out. Jesus said that If you care to believe it John is the Elijah to come. John's baptism has something to do with the raven.
(There is also interesting definitions and root word for the word meaning "pitch" on the Ark of Noah that is related to salvation. Pitch (Genesis 6:14) Strongs 3724 kopher; from 3722; prop. a cover, i.e. (lit.) a village (as covered in); (spec.) bitumen (as used for coating), and the henna plant (as used for dying); fig. a redemption-price:- bribe, camphire,pitch, ransom, satisfaction, sum of money, village. 3722 kaphar; a prim. root; to cover (spec. with bitumen); fig. to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel:- appease, make (an) atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, to pitch, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile (-liation).)

The Garden of Eden
Jesus went backward before the flood to the garden of Eden. It says in Deuteronmy 30:6 , Yahveh Elohim (the Lord thy God), "will circumcise your heart and the heart of your seed to love Yahveh Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that you may live." In order to live one must eat of the tree of life which is in the garden of Eden being guarded by cherubim with a sword.

The last supper of Jesus was the Passover supper where the angel of death passed over all those in the households of Israel when it saw the blood of the lamb on the doorpost.
I see the blood as the blood of the circumcised heart (Jesus when his heart was pierced, water and blood came out).
On Passover Jesus and his disciples revisit the original scene in Eden and reverse it. Adam is played by Jesus. Eve is played by the disciples. The devil is played by Judas "One of you is a devil" (Jesus)
Adam and Eve ate to forget God to become like God. Jesus broke the bread and told his disciples "Eat this in remembrance of me" to remember rather than forget. Since Adam mankind has been using food thinking it is doing something it is not doing. People use food like a drug to dull their conscience or to compensate and feel good when they are not.

Temptation
Where were Adam and Eve before they ate? They were in a garden being tempted. Remember we are going in reverse Where were Christ and the disciples after they ate? In the garden of Gethsemane during Jesus’ time of temptation.

The Bride
The last supper of Jesus was the Passover supper where the angel of death passed over all those in the households of Israel when it saw the blood of the lamb on the doorpost.
I see the blood as the blood of the circumcised heart (Jesus when his heart was pierced, water and blood came out).
On Passover Jesus and his disciples revisit the original scene in Eden and reverse it. Adam is played by Jesus. Eve is played by the disciples. The devil is played by Judas "One of you is a devil" (Jesus)
Adam and Eve ate to forget God to become like God. Jesus broke the bread and told his disciples "Eat this in remembrance of me" to remember rather than forget. Since Adam mankind has been using food thinking it is doing something it is not doing. People use food like a drug to dull their conscience or to compensate and feel good when they are not.

Temptation
Where were Adam and Eve before they ate? They were in a garden being tempted. Remember we are going in reverse Where were Christ and the disciples after they ate? In the garden of Gethsemane during Jesus’ time of temptation.

The Bride
Adam went back before Eve was formed. Adam was put into a deep sleep and his side was opened and a helps meet was made for him from his side.
Christ was put into a deep sleep, death, and his side was opened, and water and blood came out. Also being killed by man under the dominion of Satan putting to death an innocent man who was seed of God and not of Adam, brought judgment on Satan. I believe the bride of Christ is the witness that is said in the NT to be of the spirit, water and blood.

The Alpha and Omega
The host, army, of heaven was in place before Adam was formed. Christ Jesus takes us to heavenly places but there was a battle in heaven. Christ takes us back to the beginning and where are we? At the end of the scripture the revelation of John the apostle is the description of that battle.

REVELATION
Of Yourself You Can Do Nothing
There was a battle in heaven and in it Satan's people fight for Satan but Jesus fights for his people. All as they can do is seek understanding agreeing to truth and be thankful.

In the battle the serpent cast a third of the stars to the earth with its tail. This is who I believe the lost are whom Christ came to save. They are lost as in lost sheep, not as in lost sinners. Everyone is a sinner but not everyone is lost. Some people are comfortable and at home in hell, separation from God, Adam's death. They will be comfortable there until hell and death (Adam's death, the first death/the first Adam) are cast into the lake of fire. I believe that hell is separation from God and if we aren't born into it the moment we are conceived in Adam's death "we all died in Adam" than it sure is a likeness of it. hell will be a place of torment when it is cast into the lake of fire.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

04-30-2005, 07:49 PM

Sharon, Dennis Covington was the man who wrote the book. He also took up serpents a total of three times. You should read the whole book to know how he felt about it. He really didn't understand it at first. That is why he compared it to other things. But, once he was more acquianted with it he understood how the Holy Ghost worked.

One particular part was when he went to Jolo. One of the places that was on dateline. Jolo Is a couple of hours away from me. I plan on running down there sometime this spring. Anyway, he had wrote up to that point that he thought that the handlers handled them in a certain way that the snakes couldn't bite. He and his partner had went thru all sorts of discussions about how there wee able to do it. Then, when they got to Jolo. They saw Dewey and Bob and everybody handle them in a way he compared to seeing someone breathe underwater. It was that miraculous. That is when he started to see it a little differently. He knew you couldn't do what they were doing without some sort of protection. And, he knew the protection was from God. He had been at the members homes and saw how they lived. He was sure by then that was what Mar16 meant.

Again, dateline put their slant to everything. They cut the clips to make them look the wy they wanted them to. And, they flat out lied when they said the poison they were drinking wasn;t strong enough to kill you. That is a flat out lie and they will have to answer for that.

Doug, I enjoyed your post. I have a different view of the fig tree. Christ came to it seeking fruit. But, there wasn't any. So he cursd it and made it die. The same thing will happed to us when Christ comes back if we are not baring his fruit. He will curse us to an eternity of damnation. So it is important to have the Baptisim of the Holy Ghost. So you can have the fruits Christ is expecting when he comes back.

doug (doug)

05-01-2005, 03:55 AM

Hi Jason,
Concerning the fig tree my only question would be, Why would Christ expect figs when "it was not yet the time of figs"? Does he expect us to bear fruit before our time?

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-01-2005, 04:37 AM

He xpects us to always bare fruit. That way we are not lacking when he comes back. He will find us ready.

doug (doug)

05-01-2005, 05:30 AM

i think of the fig tree as the tree of knowledge of good and evil because of Adam and Eve covering themselves with fig leaves and a couple of other little hints. Christ was patient with his disciples before they received the holy spirit in them.
I gues it is possible that he expects us all to be bearing fruit all the time. If that is the case and we are fig trees then he isn't patient anymore with unspirit filled believers. I'll have to keep that in mind and see if it pans out.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-01-2005, 08:56 PM

Remember Doug. The bibles says if you don't have his Spirit you are none of his. But, he does have patience with those he knows will come to him. Every believer was chosen before the foundation of the world. Go had it all planned out before he started it all.

In the book of John Jesus said he was the true vine. Every branch that beareth not fruit he taketh away. So to bear fruit is to have eternal life in heaven. To not bear fruit is eternal damnation. Jesus said if a man abide not in me, and he is withered(fig tree), and men gather them, and cast them in the fire, and they are burned,

That describes the end. We are the branches grafted in after the jews were cut off. If we bear fruit we will be harvested.( The angels gathering us up) If we don't bear fruit we will be cut off. And, we will be gathered up and cast into the lake of fire that burneth forever and ever.

I can't bear fruit being a branch, unless i am part of the vine. Other words, I can't bear the fruits of the Spirit without being a part of that Spirit. I must be born again of the Spirit. Which is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

You believe and be baptized, and, still not have the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:12,15-16
But when they BELIEVED Philip preaching the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, THEY WERE BAPTIZED. (Peter and John) Who, when they came down, prayed for them, that the MIGHT recieve the Holy Ghost: for as yet he was fallen on none of them:only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

You can believe, and, be baptized. And, still not have the Holy Gost. Which means you are not born again. You have to have an expirience. There has to be something visible. That is why some churches believe you have to speak n tongues to have. It is proof you have the Holy Ghost. I know everyone is not supposed to speak in tongues. But, to be born again of the Spirit of God(baptism of the Holy Ghost) you have to have an expirience. Everyone in the book of acts had some sort of expirience. So we have to too.

doug (doug)

05-02-2005, 03:47 AM

I've had many experiences, some spiritual and some sin and some coincidences seem supernatural but signs from God to me about him as opposed to signs that I am approved by him.
I see evidence of God and he blesses me in many ways but does he approve me for works of his spirit?
I think I have the gift of helps. I think God helps people using me

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-02-2005, 05:52 AM

There are different gifts. And, he says you can have as many as you want. But try to get the best ones.

The gifts are without repentence. So if he calls you to do something, and, others do not like. Or. they try to disprove it. You do not have to worry if you are in the wrong. Sometimes we can get insecure. And, people come against us. Then our insecurities cause us to doubt our gifts. So we must have confidence in our self.

If you want a supernatural manifestation. Then you fall down and pray earnestly to God for one. If you want to speak in tongues, interpret, heal the sick, cast out devils, take up serpents, or drink a deadly thing without harm. Then seek God for it.

You have to have the fruits. But, you also should have the power. It is there and available to anyone who wants it. I couldn't feel secure in my faith without it hardly. Not to feel his Spirit quicken me. I would feel seperated from him. I would feel lost. I really don't see how other people do it. Have a life without feeling the power of God all over you. Not just over you, but, in you. Working thru you. Doing things that man alone can't do. It is the Gift of God.

If he is in you, then you are part of him. His attributes we take on. One of his attributes is supernatural power. But, it can only happen with faith. When Jesus went to his home town no one had faith but just a few old people. So he couldn't do any mighty works. Even though he was God in the Flesh.

God can't do nothing for you if you don't believe in it. If I never believed in taking up serpents. Even though I was in church. I would never take one up. Nor would I ever feel the anointing to. But, when I hear it preached. And, I mix it with faith. The Lord will anoint me to do it.

The reason people don't get healed, the reason people don't speak in tongues, the reason they have no manifestation of the Holy Ghost. Is because they do not beieve in it. You got to hear it, then believe it. Then you will do it. Some people are like Thomas. They have to see it first. Jesus said blessed are they who believe and have not seen.

You humble yourself to the Lord and he will exalt you. Not in a way where the world will love you. They will hate you like they hated him. They will call you of the devil just like they did him. But, you partake of his sufferings and you will reign with him for eternity.

holinessboy28 (holinessboy28)

05-04-2005, 06:06 PM

Jesus told us, you shall have power "after" that the Holy Ghost as come up on you. With out the Holy Ghost you have no power.
So many want to focus on the serpent handling. That is such a small thing compared to watching the sick be restored, or somebody being saved and set free. It really takes it all. Not parts of it but all of it. I do believe in serpent handling. I believe that if it was good enough for them in the bible. Then it’s good enough for me.
As with everything. It needs to be done in decency and in order. As with most things. the media has made us” holiness people" look like a freak sideshow. When that isn’t the case at all. We are everyday normal people. You would probably be shocked to know how many people you are or may be in contact with who has been around serpent handling or still believes it.
The word also tells us. Perfect love casts out fear. We have no fear when the power comes to do so. It also says. With out love you are none of his. So people that like to pass judgment and cut up over things needs to be checking to see if they have the Holy Ghost like the bible says. This age and time we live in there is a famine for the word. Nobody wants to be told how to live they don’t want this highway of holiness, it’s too hard. Well I will say this. This is not a microwave/soap opera religion. But it is a plan of salvation.
Pray for me I will do his will.

turtle (turtle)

05-04-2005, 08:05 PM

I experience a group much like the snake handlers and God showed me this was wrong. How the minister involved was not living a holiness life style. Playing with the devil which is what the serpent represents is wrong. Devil is real something not to play around with. I have heard of sanke handlers and won't have a thing to do with them. Be careful playing with the Holy Spirit. Handling a snake is not signs of the spirit. Love, Joy, Peace, gentleness, Kindness, Longsuffering are. Beware of this group.
For you that don't know this group I believe is also Jesus only or pencostal oneness.

(Message edited by turtle on May 04, 2005)

doug (doug)

05-05-2005, 04:36 AM

Jason,
I've never been able to heal people at will but it happened by God when he gave me compassion for those people. Years ago I had a reputation for healing people and I don't know how I got it.

I like the gift of helps because I can heal by helping a healer heal or helping healers to love. I can do many things without being anything. I think the little gift will grow into bigger ones but not because I want it to but, as my younger brothers girlfriend asked me, "Why does the love of Christ compel you?"

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-05-2005, 05:55 AM

Doug, we CAN'T heal people. But, the Father that lives in us can. Only thing required of us is the faith to know he will. All the gifts are good, and, none is above the other really.

Turtle, thank you for posting. You know, there are bad apples in every bunch. So try not to judge an entire group with one person. Maybe what that particular man was doing was wrong. But, he does not represent everybody.

Serpent handling is right. And, if you have the real Holy Ghost you would believe. Jesus said if you was of his Father then you would believe his words. They shall take up serpents is Jesus' words. Plain and simple. Do you have to handle them, no, but you should believe in it.

Is that you Jerry(holinessboy28)? Like the post. You will encounter a lot of things on these boards. And, the reason I am focusing on the serpents is becuase that is what the majority condemn. They also do healing and speaking in tongues too. But, serpent handling the most. That is why I have tried to spread it the best I can. And, let people know the best way I can of what it is and how it works. According to my knowlegde and expirience. I have gotten pretty mad at times, and, acted out in ways I shouldn't. But, if you will read my post I always repent every time I felt I was out of line.

Look over some of these boards. You might find it interesting the things they call cults.

sharon (sharon)

05-08-2005, 06:30 PM

Jason…. I must say that you certainly put your time where your mouth is, and that is wonderful to see. I personally have never handled a poisonous snake, as we have none up here in the frozen north. Just cute little garter snake and the such. But I do think that a true believe in Christ has nothing to fear in anything that the Lord says he can do. I also am a born again, and that gives us an advantage that most do not get so we work harder. Thank you for all your hard work, and may God Bless you.

Doug…. I also wonder sometimes why I can not do all the things like healing and the such.. The power to cast out demons comes with fasting and pray and I know that I own that but the power to heal is not yet within me. But I also believe that I am the type of person that if I had the power to heal I would work myself into an early grave for there would always be just one more and I could deny none. Maybe your Father knows that about you and that is why you do not have that gift. Many people chose nursing as my daughter did but I knew that I would bring it all home with me and so was not made of the right stuff for it.
You work very hard on these boards and are loved and respected by many, and needed by many including myself, that also is a gift. It is also an example of how hard you work for the Lord, here you often heal souls. There was a time when I was confused and it was your words that lifted me up, and set me on the path again.
Imagine a big storm is coming and you have an elderly aunt sitting by the ocean in a house with huge picture windows, now you know that this storm is going to be much bigger than they expected. You fear for her because she is in her nineties and alone in that house. Suddenly the Lord lets you know that you have the power to move that storm. You go outside and push it away from the direction that it is heading, All is well, but the next day you find that you have pushed it into the city where your own children live. Now of course that Lord did not really let you have such power but is showing you what you would do if you did have it. Would you ever want such power again, sometimes things are kept from us for our own good. I am beginning to understand that more and more. While God healed me when I was injured he also at the same time left my arthritic finger just as it is even thought I asked for it many times and yet did not ask even once to be healed of the injury that he did heal. He has his plans and that is that.
Catch you on the flip side.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-09-2005, 04:34 AM

Thank you Sharon. You kind words mean a lot to me. There are different Gifts. Healing is one of them. But, it is really one of the greatest. I have seen and partaken of many healings. I have been healed of infections, depression, acid reflux, and once even a burnt hand. As well as participating in the healing of others.

Last night in church, I handled fire. It was only the third time I ever handled it. I made the torch from one of those bamboo torches with the little can. It wasn't to bad. Usually people use a pop bottle. Or, a propane torch.

Anyway, I was standing there up front listening to the music. And, I started to get a leading to handle the fire.(it was unlit sitting beside the sound sytem). I waited for the leading to get real strong. It did a couple of times before. But, I had to much doubt. I just didn't have my faith right. Then, it started moving on me again, the Holy Ghost. This time I just walked up there, believing I could handle it, lit the torch and handled the fire. It burns cold. The flames are cold. Like a wind blowing on your hand. You see my faith matched the leading of the Lord. Even tho the Lord moved on me before, my faith didn't match. So if I went up there like that, with doubt, I would have gotten burned up. So I waited till my faith matched the anointing. Then I obeyed the Lord. And, he worked thru me to do that sign. It certainly edified me.

You see faith is something that is simple, but, hard to have. When can have faith, but, it is replced with doubt when put to the test. When you go lay hands on someone to pray for their healing. Don't go hoping they will be healed. Go KNOWING they will be healed. When your faith gets like that, watch out. Things will start to happen.

The Lord has just recently showed me this. So I haven't really gotten to do it. Just with the fire. Now serpents are different. It seems like you can handle serpents a lot easier than fire. I don't know why. It just seems your faith is really strong when you take up serpents.

Next time you are in church I want you to try this. Wait for the leading( God will put something on you he wants you to do) Wait till your faith is strong (you know that what you do is going to be done) Then obey the Lord. You get your faith in line with the Leading of the Holy Ghost. And, you will see him use you more and more.

So remember, don't hope someone will be healed. Don't think someone will be healed. But, know beyond the shadow of a doubt, they will be healed. And, I mean instantly.

turtle (turtle)

05-09-2005, 07:22 PM

How can you Glorify God by putting on a show. I rather God instruct me to witness, teach or preach, sing or pray for someone. Or lead me to help someone? Also what is your doctrine concerning the Trinity?

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-10-2005, 03:04 AM

I can see you wouldn't believe no matter what. No matter what answer i would give you, you would never come to the knowlegde of the truth.

I do not "put on a show". No more than Jesus did when he did miracles. Or, the Apostles for that matter. Jesus wasn't putting on a show when he walked on the water, and, neither was Peter. So I am so so sorry you feel that it is a show.

The only problem I have with the doctrine of the trinity. Is that it was established by men. Years and years after the Apostles. It is a catholic founded teaching. I am not catholuic, so I don't follow it. I believe Jesus was God in the Flesh. He came down into a fleshly body, so he could die and redeem his children. Then he ascended up. On the day of Pentecost he came back in his original Spirit form. The Holy Ghost. So one Spirit, three different offices. But, only one God. Jesus was born into the world, the express image of the unseen God. He came into that little fleshly body. One reason was to manifest his name, Jesus. Meaning God saves. Another was to die to redeem his children. And, then ascend and come back into our flesh as the Holy ghost.

Again, I stress, I do not, and mean absolutley do not, put on any type of show. I am simply letting the Light the Lord give me shine. You know darkness can't comprehend the Light.

turtle (turtle)

05-10-2005, 04:58 PM

"Again, I stress, I do not, and mean absolutley do not, put on any type of show. I am simply letting the Light the Lord give me shine. You know darkness can't comprehend the Light."
_____________________________________________

I see a problem with your final statement maybe it was typing error so i will give you a chance to respond. So you are taking glory for what you did? you said let me shine.
I say let Christ shine in me so his glory can be shown Not the other way around not for me to shine but Christ to shine. And tell me how does handle snakes do this very thing.
If you think about it snake handlers in every culture handle snakes and are not bitten and some of them are occult worshippers. Also fire handlers and fire fighters handle fire and never get burned or live through it and it is more major then what you play with.

(Message edited by turtle on May 10, 2005)

(Message edited by turtle on May 10, 2005)

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-11-2005, 08:06 AM

First of all, did the Lord give you a light when you got saved, if so, do you not let it shine. The light is God, it dwells in me. So what is shining is not me but God in me. So he is the one getting the glory. You completely misread what i wrote. I never said let me shine, but, let the light in me shine.

There are many people who handle serpents. Most have much different reasons than I have. I am just being obedient to the Leadership of the Holy Ghost. How do I know it is the Holy Ghost. By the fruits of the people who do it. When you are in the Spirit deep enough that the Lord will lead you to take up serpents. The love of God fills you beyond measure. You love everybody. You wouldn't nothing when you are in the Spirit. Other places may do it. Either by bad spirits or like cobras, just skill. Cobras are mannered a lot different. You can do a lot with a cobra. Like kiss it or tap it on the head. You take a rattlesnake that is coiled up ready to strike. You won't touch him like that. He would be hanging of your hand. But, the Holy Ghost can be so powerful you can reach right down and pick it up. Even tho it is coiled up ready to bite. I have seen the anointing so powerful that the serpent would go limp in your hand like it was dead.

As far as handling fire goes. Unless you have seen someone in church do it. You can't even grasp the concept of it. You can't really descibe it. That is why there is a demonstration of the Holy Ghost. So you can see it. I don't play with fire. I may HANDLE fire when the Lord leads and anoints me to. But, I do not PLAY with fire.

And, fire burns no matter how great or small. Put your hand to a lighter and you will see. It will burn you. Even tho it is only about a unch tall. You definitely won't leave it there. Unless God anoints you. A preacher in ohio was handling fire one night. He had about a foot high flame. He put that fire to his face till it was going right under his chin all the around around and all the way up the side of his head. As he stood there testifying with this fire. Which was about five or six minutes. He never moved that fire. And, while he stood there with this flame engulfing his entire head. He reaches over to a pint jar of strychnine and turns it up and drinks about half the jar. Never taking the fire away. The whole time testifying about the goodness of the Lord.

This same preacher once had a man tell him that the strchnine wasn't stong enough to hurt a person. So the Lord moved on him really strong becuase of that man's unbelief. So he took the raw powder form of strychnine, poured out a hundful of it. Swallowed it down. Then asked the man if he was satisfied. And, the man was. Did I mention there was no harm come to him. Not one little bit. When he took enough strychnine to kill ten men.

I can tell you are kind of a pharisee type. They stood around Jesus all the time. Tempting him with questions. Calling him the devil. Calling him a blasphemer. The same type of religious devil is still here today doing the same thing to God's people.

There is a lot of fake that goes on out in the religious world. But, there is a lot of real as well. If you got the Spirit of Christ in you you can discern the two. But, if there is something in the Word that you don't agree with. You got the wrong spirit. Becuase, the Spirit and the Word always agree.

turtle (turtle)

05-11-2005, 04:19 PM

First of all Paul did not handle snakes but he was bit by one and no harm came to him. He should of died it was a testimony to the people he was with that were unsaved. My husband and many other firefighters stand literally in teh middle of a fire flames licking them from head too toe and never receive a burn. And it is not because protective gear is that good. You standing in teh middle of a burning brush and tell me how it is. God also said not to tempt him. How many undbelievers does this witness too in your community that you are saved. What kind of life does the poeple live outside the church, how many lead others to Christ. Or just help a neighbor. If you tempt God to long you will land up dead by a snake or fire you play with. People see what you do and testify that a magician can do it. how does that bring people to Christ. I be honest I have seen God transform people including myself by his word. How many people are transformed by your service and go out and spread the love of Christ.
My husband was cutting the church yard and he stepped on a copperhead. The snake head came back and landedo n his shoe. Technically the snake should of bit him. Did it no. Why I do believe God protects his people. Like on another post Imentioned my wreck. I think it is on the snake handler page. I should be dead. But I am not and you know it is a testimony to those around me that seen it and knew me. All that has happened in my life is a testimony to how God has delivered me and loves me. Doesnt' take danger necessily away or doesn't allow harm to come to me but it is whether I believe God can still take care of me during or after these events in my life. Testing God and say look I handle a snake or handled fire is nothing. What about dailly living.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-12-2005, 12:40 AM

People stood by and said Jesus was the devil. That didn't make what he did any less real. People can say what they want. But, they shall take up serpents is real. We can not take up a serpent by our self. I know I can't. I don't go here I will pick up this snake and God won't let it bite me becuase I am his son. I get led by the Holy Ghost to take up serpents. God himself leds me to take them up. I can't go around doing it any time I want. If I tried I would be dead. I only take up serpents when God leads me to. That is the only time I can. God uses me to demonstrate his word and power. He said they would take them up. Then he gives us the power to do it. We are only the means by which his Holy Spirit is manifest. He does it all. I am just a willing vessel that will surrender my will to be obedient to him.

Again, I would rather not cast pearls before the swine. You will clearly never be a believer. So I can't waste my time on you and your questions.

By the way, I thank the Lord for the work your husband does. And, I am glad he didn't get bit. A copperhead bit won't kill you but it is very painful. So thank the Lord your husband wasn't bit.

turtle (turtle)

05-12-2005, 02:51 PM

Jason,
My pray for you is that God will open your eyes that you might see the show and that it is better to go worth into the world to preach to teach then to continue demonstrating nothing more then snake handling. People do it everyday and some are bit and live to tell about it some are not.

I ask you to ask God to reconfirm this snake handling if it is for you. But I have yet heard you mention how people ar blessed and are saved from it. How many come to see it has a show to your church and never return. Are you witnessing outside the church is your witness leading people to Christ. Leading people to Jesus should be our main focus.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-15-2005, 03:08 PM

People would come to see it, just to criticize or just to see. Once they are there they have to hear preaching. The Word saves. The signs confirm the Word.

People have to preach the Word. The signs come in to confirm the Word. People come to see the signs, but, they have to hear the Word. In the hearing of the Word is where thy are saved.

You speak in tongues I know. The same Spirit that makes you speak in tongues, will let you take up serpents. It comes on you in the same way. And, you can't stop it no more than speaking in tongues.

I want to apologize to you for the statement of casting pearls before the swine. My Spirit really checked me hard on that. I did that out of my flesh, I was just irritated. So please forgive me for that.

I witness to people when ever I can. I just invited two brothers to church last saturday night and they had an incredible time.

I am also trying to get my cousin to come, he is a recovering drug addict. He saw some pictures of me with the serpents and he wanted to talk to me about the Lord. Not the serpents. Most people know you are sincere in what you believe when they see you putting everuthing on the line for the Lord. They see your faith and they see how you live.

You see, if I was to live sinfully, just willingly committing sin. Then go take up a serpent, it would bite me. No doubt what so ever. You can't live an unclean life and have the Holy Ghost.

Maybe you should ask God to confirm his Word to you. He said these signs Shall follow them that believe. He said those who believe not are damned. And, I don't want to be damned. So I believe in taking up serpents. Since I believe in it, he anoints me to do it.

Has he ever led you to lay hands on somebody? That same feeling is what leads you to take up a serpent. If you believe in it. If you don't you will never do it. Just like a person who don't believe in speaking in tongues will never speak in tongues.

turtle (turtle)

05-15-2005, 08:34 PM

Jason,
You seem to have knowledge of your bible. Take a look at these verses.
Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

You and I both know if Jesus had jump God would of protected him. Jesus rebuke satan instead. Satan knew who Christ was. You and I know the wind even obeys Christ. Christ stilled the water after peter sank into the water out of fear of the storm.
If I am out in my garden or taking a nature walk in the woods and I come across a snake I believe God will protect me from harm. I could even pick it up and move it if need be. Now would I like moving it no. But I think of the apostle paul when he was gathering wood for the fire and got bit. The serpent bite him and technically should of made him sick and possibly killed him. This was a great witness to the people around him.
These people were unsaved.
Look at Daniel in the lions den. Technically Daniel should of been lunch. But he wasnt' and it was a testimony to the ones that did not believe in God.

godchild (godchild)

05-15-2005, 08:50 PM

Turtle, I had the same thought as you about 'not tempting the Lord your God'. There are obviously millions and millions of christains out there, and I would say that MOST of them did/do not handle snakes or speak in tongues. God chooses the time to use me as his diciple, not I. I have received miracles that have saved me from death, yet I did not plan those situations, nor thought to how I was going to survive them. "God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform." "Our thoughts are not his thoughts, our ways are not his ways." It is his faithfulness to me and my faith in him that protects me in times of need.

turtle (turtle)

05-16-2005, 01:43 AM

Godchld, were there not unsaved people that seen your testimony and were changed because of it. Even if they didn't become christians they knew God had worked in your life. God definitely provides for his children and protects them. He opens doors that we have no clue about. Trusting God is so important in our lives.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-16-2005, 05:43 PM

Again, I will repeat myself, God LEADS us to do it. It is not tempting Him if He is the One LEADING you to do it. I have said this over and over and it seems like people ignore it.

I would never touch a snake without God leading me. Whether it was in my path in the woods or what have you. I might use a stick or something maybe. But, if God leads me, I have enough faith and trust in Him that He would take care of me. He wouldn't LEAD me to do anything agaianst His will.

Satan was tempting Jesus who was God in the flesh. He was tempting Him by his words. Just like the Jews in the desert tempted him with murmering and complaing. Then they were destroyed by serpents.

There are people who do the same thing to serpent handlers. They say handle this one or handle one of these. Se they are tempting us not the other way around. We can do nothing except what God show us. And, then he has to work with us. We can do nothing of ourselves.

If I go and pick up a snake without God LEADING me to. It will bite me. And, according to what kind of snake it is. I would either be hurt real bad or dead. But, if God leads me to then he gives me a covering. The anointing of the Holy Ghost. And, then I can take one up. And, as long as I am in the anointing the serpent can not harm me.

Just like Peter obeyed the Lord when he said COME. He could walk on the water. That was the Holy Ghost keeping him up. But, when doubt and fear came on him he lost that and sunk. If I handle a serpent and fear or doubt comes on me. The anointing will leave. Then I can be bitten. That is how many have been bitten. But, thru the laying on of hands they recover without medical treatment.

Some people handle on faith alone. In hope that the anointing will come while they handle it. Many have been bit and killed doing this. It is a small percentage of serpent handlers that do this tho. I would not recommend that for anyone.

But, you should obey the bible and try the Spirit. Let go of your flesh and try the Spirit. Buy a video, get a book, find a article. Check it out in depth. And, not just the negative either. There have been a lot of exploitation in the media. They either demonize you or make you look like an ignorant hillbilly. Or you are mentally deficient in some way. They always put a negative slant to everything. They edit tapes too. I have original documentaries on tape, and, I have seen shows use clips from them. But, they take out one line and or on scene and bend it to make it say or look like wht they want.

The best book you can find that really shows how serpent handlers are. In their own words as well as commentary by the authors. Is Beyond the Serpents: Three Families and Their Faith. It came out in 2000. You can get it from the Library or buy it online.

You can also get a video online at holy roller online store. It is some crazy person who has it. They are not associated with the church at all. But, they got the tape. I know the people on their. One of my close friends is on it. He pastors a church in Nc.

Just try the Spirit. My Spirit agrees with His Spirit becuase my Spirit agrees with the Word. So no one can make me doubt it.

turtle (turtle)

05-16-2005, 08:07 PM

When you go purposely in the woods to pick up snakes to handle for church you are planning what you will do in the service. It is the same when you make a torch you plan to use it. You are setting up a stage for events. Paul did not set up to get bit. Daniel didn't set up to become possible lunch for lions. Peter didn't plan to walk on water. They all reacted to the circumstance they were in. This is why i consider snake handling a show. You set the stage for what you call the Holy Ghost to move. Make sure it is the Spirit of God and not conditioning of ones mind. I write this more for others then for you Jason. Because I know you won't necessily change your mind or faith on what I say. God would have to show you, nothing I say or do will do that. I hope those that read these post will do some thinking and praying before jumping into snake handling.
Jason continue to set your stage for worship by bring snakes to church or even torches. I rather have faith with no feelings then faith with emotions. Why because emotions are passing.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-17-2005, 04:56 AM

Yes, I have to get snakes in order to handle them. Same as a man has to have a sick person in order to heal. If Jesus said that believers would take up serpents, then he meant it just like He said it. So I can't take up serpents if I don't have one. So in order for me to have God manifest this sign thru me. I have to get a serpent.

Have yo ever seen serpent handlers? Have you ever read anything about them? This is not steve irwin or something. This isn't some kind of luck. It isn't a skill. It isn't mind over matter. It is God himself in the form of the Holy Ghost working thru my willing vessel.

And, I am not talking about emotions. You are pentecostal and you speak in tongues. You have shared this with me. Is it you or the Holy Ghost that speaks thru you? The Bible said believers would speak in tongues. You believe it, and, you have a physical manifestation. A Holy Ghost demonstration. And, no one can disprove that to you right. I have THEY SHALL TAKE SERPENTS in the Word. Jesus' own words. The same place He said believers would speak in tongues. You have word for it, and, a Holy Ghost demonstration for it. I have word for taking up serpents, and, I have a Holy Ghost demonstration for it.

Peter didn't plan to walk on the water. But, when Jesus commanded to Him to come. He did. He was being obedient to Jesus, who is the Word. He wasn't tempting God because he was obeying God's word. Even tho he was putting himself in harms way to do it. They shall take up serpents is God's word. So we are being obedient to God. So we are not tempting Him by doing what he said we would do if we believed. No more than you are tempting God by speaking in tongues. And, I have no more control over it than you do speaking in tongues.

Now, he said they shall cast out devils, if there wasn't any devil around to cast out he could never confirm his word. He said they shall speak with tongues, without a mouth you couldn't do it. He said to heal the sick by laying on of hands, without a hand you couldn't do it. Without a sick person being there you couldn't do it. He said if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them, if there is no deadly thing how can he confirm his word. He said they shall take up serpents if there is no serpent to take up he can not confirm his word.

So, point being, How can God use his children to confirm his word without the required tools it takes to do it. It is like telling a person to make coffee without the coffee. Or, to tell a man to fix a car and not give him tools for the job. If he did not mean for someone to take up serpents he would have never had let anyone to do it. There would be no demonstration of the Spirit to back it up. Every time a serpent was took up a person would be bit and killed. There would be no protection from God whatsoever. There would be no way for his children to take up serpents unles he led them to and gave them a protection from his sweet Holy Ghost.

If God didn't want you to speak in tongues then you wouldn't, if you do it yourself nothing would come of it. If I took up serpents without God wanting me to I would be dead. I would be killed without a shadow of a doubt. If I layed hands on the sick, and they didn't recover, then either my faith is wrong or God's word is a lie.

Now, I know God's word is not a lie. So he wouldn't say they shall take up serpents then not give his children the power to do it. He wouldn't say they would speak in tongues and not give them the power to do it. He wouldn't say they would cast out devils and not give them the power to do it. He wouldn't say they would heal the sick then not give them the power to do it. He wouldn't say they could drink deadly things and then not give them the power to do it.

You know God can't lie. The only reason people don't speak in tongues is becuase they don't believe in it. They don't cast out devils cuase they don't believe in it. They don't take up serpents becuase they dont believe in it. They don't drink deadly things without harm becuase they don't believe in it. They don't lay hands on the the sick, and the sick dont recover becuase they don't believe.

Gods word can not fail, but, our faith can. When we are called to believe something that is out of our range of understanding. We let our lack of faith interfere with the operation of God. He can't confirm his word thru us becuase we don't believe.

But, if we believe His Word, and, put total faith in it. He will use us to confirm hs word. Which is the whole bible. Not just the signs. But, you have to believe in them too. All unbelief is sin.

turtle (turtle)

05-17-2005, 08:18 PM

Would not a great sign for you faith be to go in the hospital and pray for people and they be healed. It benifit the people that are sick and benifit those who witness it as to the fact you are God's servant. Handling snakes really has no benifit when you bring them into the church. I don't go looking for the sick or for demon possessed people but if i meet one i know to pray. I know to rebuke in the name of Jesus.
God wants to use us not us use God. When we persume that he will not bring us harm because we do soemthing in his name doesn't mean we dont' come to harm. But it doesn't mean we will come to harm either. I watched a preacher declare once that all he need was grandma to start the spirit moving. The problem is he was using God instead of allowing God to use him.
When i speak in tongues I take ICorintians fourteen very seriously. If it doesn't edify the church I do not do it outloud. Because after all it is the HOly Spirit praying (interceding to the Father for us.) Sometimes it is only meant for the one speaking in tongues. So it is usually softer thena whisper. And i do not go into church or into pray saying i will speak in tongues I allow the Spirit to instruct.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-19-2005, 12:27 AM

I have gone to hospitals and prayed for people. My dad and prayed for a dying man who had ruptured vessels bleeding. And, he was healed. Not only of that, but of hepatitis c.

I also have gone to nursing homes and ministered to them thru music. This is a very satisfying expirience.

And, I still am trying to stress that I don't pick up a serpent by by just saying "In Jesus name" and then picking it up. I would be bit if I did that. Becuase I would be doing it in the flesh. I have to be led ny the Spirit to take up serpents. Without the leading of the Spirit i will not take up a serpent.

When I say led by the Spirit, I mean physically led. Not on my own, but the Spirit moving me. Actually moving me. Taking my body and making it do what He wants it to do. I can pull back and resist, but, I dare not to. That would be disobedient to God. So I have to go by what the word says, and, by what the Spirit leads.

Has your church ever had a healing service? Or, a special prayer meeting for the sick? What good would it do to have a prayer meeting and not bring any sick people to be prayed for?

I can't make God do anything, you should have enough sense to know that. Nobody can make God do anything. That would meant he had Power over God. I can't make God confirm His Word. He has to do it Himself. So if taking up serpents the way I do it is not the way he meant it. I could never do it. It would be impossible. But, impossible things are possible with God.

And, it edifies me. It builds my faith. It also builds others faith in the church. To see God manifest himself thru me fills me with joy unspeakable. It is much more powerful than speaking in tongues. It is much more edifying to myself than when I speak in tongues. What edification was there when Jesus cursed the Fig tree and it died. No one was healed or anything. What about when he turned the water into wine. No one was healed, there was no prohecy or anything. So what edification was there? It built up peoples faith. When they saw Jesus do miracles they believed his word. They knew a man couldn't do those things without God. So what he was preaching to them must be true. When the Holy Ghost came into me it brought with it the same ability to the miracles Jesus did. Becuase it is His Spirit. Every gift every sign and wonder is for edification. Building up ones faith.

I am a devout christian. Most people who handle serpents are. I would never do anything I thought God didn't want me to do. I love and fear Him to much. I fear him to much to be disobedient to him. So I believe his word. And, he working thru me confirms his own word. So when you try to disprove it, or mock it. You are doing those things to God not me. For it is the Father in me that does the works. I can do nothing on my own.

Again, you should be obedient to the word and try the Spirit. Go to your library and find you a few books. Three families and their faith is probably the best. Or persecuted Prophets. Find you a movie there are quite a few of them out there.

Until you see it for yourself, and really tried to be open to it. You can't say a word about it. Because, you are speaking out of ignorance. Just like if I told someone they were fixing their car wrong I didn't know a thing about cars. I wouldn't be qualified to tell anyone how to fix their car. So you learn to be still and hold your tongue. Try the Spirit before you speak against something. Spiritual things are foolish to the flesh. SO i can percieve you are letting your flesh over run you. Try being open to something and try to learn about it before you go saying it is wrong.

And, you can't go to someone who has no expirience with it and expect them to tell you about it. It is like going to a womens clothing store trying to find a pair of mens pants. If you want to learn about something you go to someone who has got it. How can a person without the Holy Ghost teach another person about? They can't. So what you know about serpent handling is what people who told you. People who don't know about it theirselves. So how can they know anything about it and never expirienced it?

Just try the Spirit. That is all I ask. Be open and receptive. Let your Spirit be in control and not your flesh.

overseas (overseas)

05-27-2005, 08:08 AM

Jason said: Overseas, you said you "think" you have the gift to tell me you are wrong. You might "think" a lot of things. But, I KNOW I can take up serpents with the leadership of the Holy Ghost.

Yes, it is my fault trying to be polite. OK, here it is the true thing: you are wrong. Full stop. Tell you in other words: should you be in so great contract with the Holy Spirit (as you allegedly claim as being proved by your snake handling), then you would also have the wisdom not to try to push your doctrine and practice so forcefully. You put yourself in a ridiculous position: the serpents master that daily performs great wonders arguing with a few people on the net about this. Take it easy, look for the spiritual gifts God has prepared for you and remember: ability does not endorse legitimity (i.e. if you can do something, it does not mean it is good to do it).

jason_stone (jason_stone)

05-27-2005, 05:49 PM

I am only trying to defend my belief. I started this board in an offensive way on purpose. To see what kind of reaction I would get. Like on other boards where they call me a clown or circus sideshow. People who make that kind of remark are not christian. I have found no where it says that the fruit of the Spirit is mocking and scorning.

Taking up serpents is not the only gift of the Spirit I have. I also speak in tongues, and, interpret myself. God has be leading me and working thru me to do that. I can't do it without him. I can not do any gifts of the Spirit without God actually being the one do it.

I have recently had my first expirience with prophesying. I went to pray for a women, and, God began to speak out of me. I had never met that women before. Never been to that church before or met any of those people. But, God knows us all. I went to her and the Spirit hit me so strong i didn't know what was going on. And, all these scriptures began to come out. Talking about healing the broken hearted and things like that. And, he told her thru me what was wrong with her, emotionally. I had never met her. The people begam to shout and praise God and I didn't know what for. Later they told me eerything I said was the truth. And, all the scriptures that i said where related exactly to what was going on in her life.

Now, that wasn't me at all. Only my body. God did all of that and not me. Same as taking up serpents. All I am is a vessel God works thru to do his will. I can do nothing.

I am not the serpents master. God is. I am merely letting God work thru me. The same as for healing or casting out devils or speaking in tongues. I do not daily preform great wonders either. I have actually never preformed a grat wonder. But, God has thru me. It wasn't me it was God.

And, I must repent of a few things while I am here. The Lord checked me on a few things. One is, I was reacting out of aggravation to my flesh on some of the comments in my post. I repent of those and ask those who were offended to forgive me. Also, in any place where I said I do signs and wonders. I must repent becuase it is not me but God in me that does them. Lastly, I did mean to push my beliefs on anyone. Merely explain them and defend them with love if necassary. So please anyone I have caused to get angry or stumble forgive me. I did not mean to cause you to sin by being angry.

arron (arron)

06-03-2005, 05:15 PM

jason you speak like it is our fault for getting angry when you need repentance yourself i think you are mixed upand need to get THE BIBLE AND READ IT

arron (arron)

06-04-2005, 10:47 PM

if you dont have any more sense to pick up a snake then.. let it bite you. no where does it say for us to handle snakes to prove our faith when paul was biten he shook it off and paid no attention... no where else does it speak of any one handling snakes.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-07-2005, 01:00 AM

Taking up a serpent does not prove your faith. It is not a test of your faith. When you take up a serpent it had better be the Lord leading you. If not you are doing on your own. And, you will be bie and possibly killed.

But, if the Lord leads you. Just like he would to lay hands and pray for someone. Or just Like speaking in tongues. Then he wants you to do it. He wants to work thru you to confirm his word. I can not take up a serpent. But, God can use me to. When he feels it would be necassary to edify someone or to prove to unbelievers the Power of God is real.

People can fake a healing, you don't know if they are healed or not. But, if you take a wild serpent, a timber rattler for example. And, people can see it has not been tampered with at all. And, it is just as wild as can be. Then you are preaching the word of God. And, his anointing falls upon you. And, he leads you right into that box and you obey him and take out that serpent. And, it goes limp like dead from the anointing. Unbelievers see that and they see God's power is as real as it was when Jesus walked the earth.

They don't pay much attention to tongues. And, unless it is a healing they can see like a limb being restored or something. They don't pay any attention to that. But, when they see God move on someone to take up a serpent, and, the serpent is as harmless as a dove. They can't refuse it. They can try to. But, in the end they can't explain it away. So it is a powerful tool for evangelism.

Again, the bible does not say to pick up snakes to prove your faith. But, it does say that believers will take up serpents with God working with them.

arron (arron)

06-08-2005, 01:55 AM

what is it a test of what does it prive to take up a snake that is what they are snakes.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-08-2005, 04:34 AM

Arron, not to be mean or smart alleck or anything. But, could you use some commas sometimes. You words seem to run together and not make sense to me. I am not trying to be mean. I just want to make sure of what you are saying.

It is not a TEST of anything. It is just a sign. Just like tongues or healing or anything else. God will work thru you to do things you can not do. When unbelievers see it. They know it is God. Unless their hearts are so full of unbelief nothing can reach them.

Just because the Lord works thru someone to take up a serpent, does not automatically mean that person is a great or wonderful person. Some people get confused and think you are exalting yourself when you say you take up serpents. I want to clarify that just because a person does any of the signs, does not mean they are nice or good. It just means they believe in it.

Judas did signs and wonders didn't he. When he was sent out with the seventy to preach. He cast out devils and everything. Healed the sick. God gave them all the power to do those things. And, Judas was among them. So he did them to. But, what did he do? He betrayed the Lord didn't he? So just becuase people do signs and wonders does not meant they are better than others.

I am going to describe a typically service. I come in and greet everyone. Usually I sit down for a while and read my bible to see what I am going to speak on, if the Lord so choses for me to speak. I usually have a while cause I get there pretty early.

Then service starts with prayer. I get on my knees in front of my pew. I pray and ask God to forgive me of anuthiong I may have done. I give him praise and honor. Then when I feel sufficient I stand up.

The music will start and I will go up in front of the pulpit. Others gather as well. They clap and sway and sing along with the music. This is what is called "Pressing". Meaning we are getting our mind off carnal things and Pressing into the Spirit.

After a while of pressing the Spirit will begin to move. People will shout praises to God. Some may begin to dance in the Spirit. The others who do not feel to do anything yet continues to press. As the Spirit moves stronger people will begin to be led of the Spirit. Some go and pray for people. Others may give out prophecies in tongues. Some, if led, will take out a serpent. Or, a fire bottle. All of this goes on at once while the music is being played. Others may fall out in the Spirit. Others will be healed. If there is people there with a devil, they are usually acting up by now. For the whole building is filled with the Spirit. If someone is seen acting up or someone says they need a devils cast out. The anointed people will gather around them and anoint them with oil. They will rebuke the evil spirit while calling on the name of Jesus. This is usually effective. The devil will be cast out.

Some will drink strychnine if they are led to. That is something you can't misjudge the least little bit. You have to know for certain it is God leading you, or, you will die. Not just be hurt but die. All of this is going on at once.

Some will be moved to tears by the Spirit. Becuase it has to be strong in presence for all these things to take place. Which is why an importance is placed on pressing into the Spirit.

Slowly the service begins to wind down. The music and things last about one to three hours. Just according to how long the Spirit moves. Then testimonies are given by whoever feels led to give one. Then the Preacher will come forth with a message. He may speak in tongues and handle serpents as he preaches. As well as any of the other five signs.

As he service gets close to the end. An altar call is given. Then if there are any sinners there. They will come to the front to the altar. The whole church will pray thru with them. Each one will hug and embrace the new convert and tell them they love them.

After this the Preacher or someone will remind the church of any special news(revivals, homecomings, prayer meetings, ect.) Then service is dismissed.

That is basically how a service goes. It may be in a different order. The preaching may come before the music, or, the testimonies may come at the very end of the service. Everything is done according to how people are led by the Spirit.

turtle (turtle)

06-08-2005, 04:02 PM

what benifit does a sign of handling a snake in church prove?

yaakov (yaakov)

06-08-2005, 04:05 PM

jason_stone

Wow! One to three hours of Music, Shouting, Dancing, Tonguing, Snakes, Fire, Healing, Shrieking, Exorcisms, Strychnine, Anointing, and Preaching. Again, I say Wow! I’ll bet you have no problems with congregants dozing in your services. The only thing similar to my services are the announcements near the end.

Three questions for you.
1) When are collections typically made?
2) Does your church ask for volunteers to clean up?
3) What sort of flooring does your church have?

arron (arron)

06-08-2005, 11:01 PM

jason, i will try for your sake to remember to use commas,,,,, you still do not give a diffenate answer to any of the questions asked of you.... you said you had the signs following... speaking in new tongues, casting out devils, taking up seroents,drinking deadly things, healing the sick. all of these are isgns but none of them includes fire handling as you also claim to have. i have done most of these thing or seen them done, healing, speaking in tongues, casting out devils, i have never and never will handle a snake.. as we call them today and i do not play with fire. all these are signs that we do if.. we come upon them we do not make them to happen as you all do in church when you handle snakes.. snakes

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-08-2005, 11:02 PM

Churches differ in their collection taking. Some who believe in tithing take up a collection about every service. Usually while people are getting ready to testify. Other churches hardly ever take up an offering. They take them up if someone has a need, or if someone comes in and the preacher feels led to take an offering for them. Most of the Preachers do not take any money from the offering. They may give it to a visiting preacher. But, they do not take it theirselves. There are few serpent handling churches who pay their minister. At the ministers request.

There are different members who clean up the church. A lot of times it is the ministers family. Most of the time no one is asked to clean up th church. But, people volunteer on their own.

Most churches have wood floors. Oak and what not. Some do have carpet. Some have carpet in the pews but leave the front open hardwood. It sounds betterhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif.

Turtle, it edifies the people doing it for sure. It builds their faith in God's love and God's power. To unbelievers it is a sign that God is real and he is alive. Becuase, a man can take up a serpent. But, he doesn't have any power to keep it from biting him. So when they read in Mark, "They shall take up serpents" as a sign of believers. Then, they actually see God move on someone to do it. And, the serpent can't bite. It doesn't even want to bite. Then they know it is God. They see God is real. So if that part is real, all the rest of the Bible is real. So they will give their heart to God.

I must also mention that serpents are not kept all year. Only thru the summer months. They are not handled every service. Some exceptions of course. But, serpents are only kept thru the warm months. They are only brought to church when someone feels led to bring them. Then only handled when someone is led and anointed to handle them.

You could bring them all the time, but, that doesn't mean you are going to get to take them up. Unless God moves on you too you can't do it. You can get it out, but, you have no protection to keep it from biting you.

arron (arron)

06-10-2005, 12:01 AM

the BIBLE teaches titheing, and it also teaches we are to pay or give to the support of the preachers or those who labor among us.. if you dont do this or dont beleive in it, you are someone who doesnt beleive in GODS WORD. you are some one who beleives just let the CHURCH make it any way it can as long as i dont have to support it.. that is stupid.

easeltine (easeltine)

06-12-2005, 10:20 PM

Jason,

Wow! I just read these postings.

I do not have the faith to participate in any Gifts of the Holy Spirit outside of 1 Cor. 12-14, Eph. 4, Rom. 12, Rom. 6:23. Mark 16:17 is a favorite Scripture of mine to give to a "dispensationalist" such as overseas. Even if the dispensationlist heretic gives me the idea that it is not part of the original manuscripts I can answer that it is in the Bible and consistent with the rest of the Word of God. I do not consider this Scripture as stating that handling snakes is a Gift of the Holy Spirit.

I do not have faith to participate in picking up snakes, handling fire, being slain with the spirit, glittering oil on the hands, laughing in the spirit, (dancing, I probably do), etc.

There are, however, many people that have the Gift of Miracles that do things I do not understand. Ex. being Slain in the Spirit is a regular part of people who have Healing Ministries. I do not discount that these are not happening by the power of the Holy Spirit today. The stories I have read and heard about Smith Wigglesworth are an example of one that had the Gift of Miracles that I do not understand, but believe it to be from the Spirit of God. One story I heard from Les Summerall was the following:
A man was in a healing line at a Smith Wigglesworth meeting who was dying from stomach cancer, he was accompanied by his Doctor. Smith Wigglesworth was lead by the Holy Spirt to punch the man in the stomach. Smith Wigglesworth punched the guy so hard that he died. The Doctor yelled, "Myself and this man's family will sue you!" Smith Wigglesworth said, "He's healed!" Shortly the man jumped up and was alive again and healed.

The reason I do not have faith for "gifts" outside the realm of the Scriptures given above is that Satan is deceiving many with false gifts in Pentecostal/Charismatic meetings. You are all going to think I am mad now...but I am not mad! I have known people who have been delivered of some powerful spirits of divination demons received from bad Pentecostal/Charismatic/Latter Day Rain, specifically Latter Day Rain churches. Rebecca Brown, (a lady who had a ministry with ladies that had been into satanism), talks about witches going into "Pentecostal" meeting to get the powerful divination spirits from members of the church doing the praying. They recognized them as more powerful demons than theirs and wanted them. I was at a "Laughing Church" where after the meeting a bunch of college students sat in a circle passing the laugh around. At that service I was praying in English and praying in the Spirit, and a 10 year-old said I was like a lion and that people around were competing with them. I wasn't competing, I was praying to the Lord Jesus Christ for protection from the spirit of divination that was surrounding this service. I am a careful person, though I don't want to limit myself either.

The following is sort of heavy, like an R rated movie. It is sort of frightening and you may not believe what I am saying. It takes guts for Jason to talk about his experiences and I appreciate him talking about them.

Snakes - In the spirit our ministers have seen the spirit of divination taking the form of a snake and wrapping itself around the person's spinal chord. My minister's do not even know that in the false religion of Hinduism they call this the "kundilini", (maybe spelled differently), a "life force" that wraps itself around the person's spinal chord and they like to release it through "dynamic yoga".

Jason and everybody else...Be careful! Keep to the Word of God, and be in touch with the Spirit, remember the your adversary the devil goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

Erich

grace2u (grace2u)

06-12-2005, 10:46 PM

Easeltine,

Would you explain to me what Latter Rain is? Your post scared the bejebbers out of me. The reason is I look out at all of the teachers and evangelists and wonder who in the world can we trust. I know the bible is the rule on this . . . but it is easy to get confused. You try to follow the commandments on love and not become too judgmental but then you have to pull yourself back because of fear of being devoured. You have evangelist who appear to preach Christ and Him crucified and even say Jesus is the only way and then you see them saying that they were mentored by another who has gone into apostacy and says that Jesus is not the only way . . . and that person will not mark the one in apostacy and steer clear. It makes me fearful of the other individual also even though he appears to preach Christ and Him crucified.

I don't know who to believe any more . . . am I alone in this?

grace2 ya,

easeltine (easeltine)

06-13-2005, 01:00 AM

Grace to you and Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Latter Day Rain Movement - The Latter Day Rain Movement or The Manifested Sons of God Movement began in 1948 by William Branham, see www.williambranham.com (http://www.williambranham.com). William Branham died in a car accident in around 1965. The part of William Branham that is probably hard to find is that right before the car accident his teachings no longer believed in the idea of the Trinity, specifically the fact that Jason is talking about, the Diety of Jesus Christ. It is my opinion that God took him home before he totally went off into error. William Branham used to have a halo circling his head as he would operate under either the spirit of divination or the Word of Knowledge.

The Latter Day Rain Movement or Manifested Sons of God beliefs can be found as http: //latter-rain.com. The Latter Day Rain Movement is not all terrible, they do teach a young person Scripture. The Latter Day Rain Movement believes in most parts of orthodox Christianity. They also believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in the prayer language of the Spirit, correctly.

The Latter Day Rain Movement has false prophecied the return of Jesus Christ several times. There is a relationship in all of these to Miller who predicted based on his interpretation of Scripture that Jesus Christ would return in 1848.
The Latter Day Rain Movement taught that Jesus would return before the year 1985. They taught that within a generation from the fig tree, (Israel becoming a nation 1948), + 40 years for the length of a generation, - 3 1/2 years of being mid-tribulation theology = 1985. They have revised that teaching.

The Manifested Sons of God doctrine comes into play when the Manifested Sons of God are taken out and will come back to earth to teach people the "Present Truth" before Jesus comes back. The goal of a Latter Day Rain person is to be part of the Manifested Sons so they will never have to die and can teach others regarding the truth.

They also believe in some strange things about the tabernacle. The Brazen Altar is like Lutheranism and justification by faith, the laver is like the Baptist, Immersion, the Table of Shewbread is like Methodist...until you get to the Altar of Incense, Latter Day Rain = "The Present Truth."

I have known instances of people that were not part of a Latter Day Rain church coming into that church after the service to pray for other people. The Latter Day Rain service can be very long and they often pray after the service for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. One story was a man who prayed for someone and a purple glow went from his hands and the person was thrown to the floor and was wild for a few minutes.

Grace, you know that a person who talks about it like this must have had some experience with the group, and I have.

Erich

easeltine (easeltine)

06-13-2005, 01:17 AM

The Laughing Movement

I visited two services of a church involved in "The Laughing Movement" in the Los Angeles area. The one described above where the college people were passing the laugh.

My friend went out from our church and joined that church as one of the ministers and would frequently attend the minister's meeting. My friend was delivered from many demons he received from a very weird Osh Rom Cult, (sorry on the spelling). His experience in that cult was that he actually saw guys walking on water, and their heads would get enlarged from, according to him, the demons spliting the head from a schizophrenic split...those are his words...who knows? He became part of this lauughing group because he wanted more of the supernatural. I can remember right now talking to him and saying that there were evil spirits in the service and him answering me, "Yes, the head minister, and all the ministers know this, but we don't want to quench the spirit." They were putting up with people practicing false gifts from demons just to see a bunch of supernatural stuff. I can just see overseas saying better safe than sorry right now...maybe he is right if you are not careful. My friend talked about a person that they knew was a witch in the service, casting a spell on one of his minister friends, and them casting the spell back on the witch sending her to the hospital. How freaky can you get? To allow a witch in the service casting their spells, and never correcting people with false gifts is just unbelievable.

The answer to all this is that these churches need the Gift of Discerning of Spirits described in 1 Corinthians 12-14, correct the abuses, and start praying for their people for deliverance from evil spirits. Fearful? I believe that if we could see all the demons that are in the world we would really be fearful. A legion is 1,000 people, that one person who had a legion in Scripture that was cast out by Jesus into a herd of swine may have had a 1,000 demons. Well, the whole herd of swine went off the cliff?

Erich

overseas (overseas)

06-13-2005, 09:45 AM

Before becoming a Christian I was part of a small gang on chinese martial arts and strange things started to happen to us after 6 years of devoted practice: one of us had an out of body experience, we started to be able to send exchange energy between us, one of us started to be guided by a white clothed spirit visible only to him. The relevant part is that we all were also in Eastern Orthodoxy religion, which is the norm here in Eastern Europe. My point is that we had no problem in calling the name of the Lord, reading the Bible and doing all those things. Similarly, one can call himself whatever kind of christian (charismatic, vineyard etc.), as long as one is involved in occult practices his christianity is only a fake and misleading.

grace2u (grace2u)

06-13-2005, 10:56 AM

Easeltine,

Thanks for your explanation. Would you say that there is no latter rain in any sense that people are using this term today? Also, is the latter rain movement related to the manchild movement and what are the differences? (Sorry for so many questions.)

Well I guess that is the whole point Jesus was trying to say when he said:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

How do you think these verses relate to:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I understand the Gospel message is simple but when I get beyond that sometimes I wonder if I can even come close to really understanding the more complex things.

Makes me wonder if I should even try. (Now this is coming from a frustrated mind right now . . . not normally this easily defeated.)

(Message edited by Grace2U on June 13, 2005)

turtle (turtle)

06-13-2005, 06:00 PM

Grace 2 u, I understand your frustration. I found this verse this am. Hebrews 10:23. Something that God has layed on my heart we need to whole to the teaching of Christ and to our salvation. We can sometimes get so caught up in different doctrinal theology we miss Christ. We have to come to Christ like a child we cant' get so caught up with all these theology because simply we could loose what began the begining of our faith. But I will share this it helps us to have these doctrinal discussion so we do not fall into the trap of the devil. Claim something is of God and it is not. Just hold on to your basic Faith of belief in what Christ did for you on the cross. and believe in his return.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-13-2005, 09:02 PM

Thank you all for your post. I hope the Lord blesses you all.

As far as taking up serpents, it is of God. I know this by the fruits of the Spirit that leads me to do it. When I get in the Spirit deep enough to be led by it, physically led, I am full of the Fruits of the Spirit. When I get led to take up a serpent. I have no work of the flesh. None. I am fully in the Spirit. If I am not I will be bit. Becuase, then I would be doing it myself and it wouldn't be God.

The fruits you have to go by and not the Gifts. It is no different than seeing a preacher preaching some sort of discrimination or hate. Or throwing off on certain people in a mean way. That is not of God and I don't care how anointed they feel. It doesn't line up with the fruits of the Holy Ghost.

There is something that happens to you when you get that deep in the Spirit. You are overcome with a joy that will bring tears to your eyes. You are so full of love for everybody. You want to hug them and tell them you love them. Which we usually do. You couldn't hurt nobody. If you was in the Spirit like that and someone came in and said something to you, or tried to hurt you. You would be harmless. You would'nt do anything back to them, just as our Lord did nothing to those hurting him.

When it comes down to it. I would never touch a serpent if God never led me to. I would have nothing to do with it if it was not God. Cuase I got my eternal life at stake. I got eternity in hell to face if I do things out of the will of God. So when I take up a serpent I have got to know it is God. And, the way I know is by the fruits of the Spirit. If the Spirit that is leading doesn't have the fruits of the Spirit of God. Then I don't follow it. But, if it does, I have to obey it. For obedience is better than sacrifice.

Jesus said he that believeth, and is baptized shall be saved. And, that is what I want. I want to be saved. That is my whole reason for coming to Jesus was to be saved.

Jesus also said, he that belieth not shall be damned. And, I don't want to be damned. I don't want to neglect so great a salvation that Christ has given me.

Then he said, These signs shall follow them that believe. And, you know what they are. I don't have to write them out. He said if I believed I would be saved, he also said that the signs would follow me if I believe. And, they do.

grace2u (grace2u)

06-13-2005, 09:39 PM

Thanks turtle . . . I appreciated your post. I suppose my concern is just a means to protect myself and at the same time, I really don't want to incorrectly accuse anyone. So digging into the Word and holding to my faith in Christ is probably the best thing to do.

Jason,

I think I could handle a snake (not that I would want to do that but I have a pretty tough mind and with God's help I should be able to handle it) but I don't feel that that God needs me to do that as a sign for anyone . . . including myself. Yes I need to walk in the light and I am trying to see your point; however,to me the real challenge (in which I need God's help everyday) is the ability to walk in the word of God and avoid temptation. Handling a snake seems like a cake walk compared to the things that we often have thrown our way or things that we allow to tempt us in our own lives.

Just a thought.

Grace 2 ya,

easeltine (easeltine)

06-14-2005, 07:55 AM

Hi,
Overseas, I have a comment and question for you.
You make this statement which is the truth.

"Similarly, one can call himself whatever kind of christian (charismatic, vineyard etc.), as long as one is involved in occult practices his christianity is only a fake and misleading."

In the U.S. we have a doctrine called "dispensationalism" that basically says that all the Gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased after
the Apostles died. The people who hold to these beliefs have no problems cutting down anyone who uses any "charismata" Gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12-14. Their churches believe that anyone who uses Gifts currently are using them through the power of Satan, or a demon.
Just look at some of these other posts on FactNet that just blasts away men that use Gifts of The Spirit...nasty sometimes.

There is another section of Pentecostals/Charismatics that have warned the Christian Church that there are false signs and wonders and many in Pentecostalism/Charismatic circles are being deceived. The following Christian authors have written books stating that a Christian can be oppressed by a demon, or have a demon and in need of deliverance. Don Basham, Maxwell Whyte, Derek Prince, Frank and Ida Hammond, Dennis and Rita Bennett, the Foursquare Denomination has some "cell" deliverance groups. I am just naming a few I can think of. I'm not going to go into the theology regarding this or give experiences.

The question I have for you is regarding a verse that Jason starts this thread with. "These signs shall accompany them that believe..." The Fruits of the Spirit mentioned above by Jason are most important, however, the verse says "shall accompany" not maybe, not might, but shall. In light of this verse my question to you is do you believe it is possible to use the Gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1 Corinthians 12-14 or the signs in Mark 16:16-18, and if so, what is your definition of "occult practices?"

Erich

easeltine (easeltine)

06-14-2005, 08:38 AM

Grace2U,
Sorry I'm so long everybody. Once you get writing it just gets long...

I had to look up the term "manchild" and found this on a website titled "The Latter Rain Revival"
http://watch.pair.com/rain.html. Yes, it sure is related. The movement has been called "Revival". Many of these groups are related to this "Latter Day Rain" idea that started with William Branham.

Matthew 7:21-23 are passages I look at, and also Matthew 25:31-46 The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats...I always remember a Keith Green song where he says the only difference between the sheep and the goats are WHAT THEY DID AND DIDN'T DO. These Scriptures are concerning.

Regarding your second category of verses about confessing Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh. My story will illustrate this. When I was a young man I went into a Christian book store and asked for a book on speaking in tongues. A young man besides me heard this and said, "Do you speak in tongues? I speak in tongues and prophecy." He didn't feel right to me. I asked him, "What church do you go to?" He said, "The church called The Way, I go to the church called The Way." Knowing a little about cults back then, I said, "I have a problem with your church." He said, "What is it?" I replied, "The church called The Way does not believe that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh." He said, "That's right we don't. Are you going to let a little thing like that separate us from being friends?" I said, "Yes." Walked out and never have seen him again. I may have problems knowing whether a gift is a Gift of the Holy Spirit sometimes, however, when someone tells me that they don't believe Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh it's a given.

Erich

turtle (turtle)

06-14-2005, 03:58 PM

Erich,
YOu know that is a given right there if they don't believe Christ came in the flesh, but satan is even using more deceptive tools and claim Christ came in the flesh but then claiming that we are Gods. I ran into that in a church. Actually after six months this minister claimed to be the Son of God. I could of handle a son of God but The Son of God no way. He had used the flesh scripture in I john I think it is from the pulpit. Using terms that those checking what he spoke would be deceived until he said he was The Son of God. WE need to be very aware of what is in the bible and what God says in other words not following the preacher but following God. Did it teach me anything this situation I was in. Yes never look at man. ONly look to Jesus. Beware even if you know you bible be alert at all times. Listen when God speaks to you and do exactly what he tells you or leads you to do.

arron (arron)

06-14-2005, 04:32 PM

i know this jesus only man who teaches, and i asked him this do i know what i am saying, he said that the blood was not... not what saved us.. obediance was. now if water ( the baptizeing ) can save JESUS would not have had to die.this is jasons doctrine... be baptized... he is a nut

easeltine (easeltine)

06-14-2005, 09:17 PM

Turtle,

There was once a real nut who looked at me and said, "Actually, I am Jesus Christ."
He was part of Rosecrutionism, (may have mispelled...don't care).

easeltine (easeltine)

06-14-2005, 09:34 PM

Arron,
The shed blood of Jesus Christ saves us.
Obedience is a result of us being a Christian.
The Bible says Believe and be Baptized and thou shall be saved.
If we choose to disobey are we saved?
Jason has unorthodox beliefs, for sure.
I agree with almost all doctrines you have said on all you postings...but I think someone could call us nuts also.

arron (arron)

06-15-2005, 12:32 AM

yes maybe i should not call him a nut. he has some wild wild wild doctrines and is just like all upc people or oness people.... if you dont beleive like him you are not right and if you have not been baptized in JESUS NAME you are lost... that is a faulty doctrine

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-15-2005, 02:45 AM

Arron, you like to put words in my mouth. I have never said that you ave to be saved by baptism. At least not water baptism. Holy Ghost baptism will save you, not, water baptism.

I have at no time said that Jesus's blood did not save us. Neither have I ever made such a statement. I do say Spirit baptism is what saves. Christ died and shed his blood so we could have His Spirit. He went away(died) and come back in Spirit form. So that we can overcome sin and the works of the flesh thru His Spirit. So when He comes to judge he will have a church without spot, wrinkle, or blemish. As long as we have sin, no matter how little we think we have. We are still stained.

God gave the Law trying to bring his children to perfection. According to the book of Hebrews it was not able to. So he sent his Spirit down into a flesh body. So that a sinless sacrifice could be offered up for atonement. Then, unlike the old way of sacrifice where you continually have to shed blood. He sent His Spirit to lead us and Guide us so that we don't sin and have no more need of a sacrifice. We had one on the Cross and that is sufficient.

Problem is, we are not continually walking in the Spirit as he bible commands. So we are walking as disobedient chldren. Which is why we recieve chastisement. When we get to the place where we are supposed to be. Abiding in Him and He in us. Then we can ask what we willand it shall be done. So far most people ask and never get anything. So they count it off as not God's will. But, if you were being led by His Spirit, everthing you did would be His will. For he is the One leading you.

easeltine (easeltine)

06-15-2005, 03:01 AM

When I was a teenager I would pray for people and everyone I prayed for would receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of the prayer language of the Spirit or what is also called Speaking in Tongues.

When I was in my twenties I would pray for people and with people that were Christians for deliverance of demons. I saw signs and wonders of the demons departing from people that I knew were Christians that were amazing. Unbelievable!

Now I go to a home church and I am just a Bible teacher. I have just taught 3 lessons on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and 4 lessons on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The college age people in our home church did meet friends at school and they have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as recorded in Acts 2,8,10,19.

Jason and others, I want to claim Mark 16:16-18 for ME NOW like it happened for me in the past. The Church of Jesus Christ needs to be using the Gifts of the Holy Spirt more. It seems to me that the Church of Jesus Christ is just sleeping on it's pews, chairs...whatever you use. The Fruits of the Holy Spirit and the attributes mentioned in 2 Peter 1:5-8 are most important...but I don't want to be sitting doing nothing...I want the Signs to follow them that Believe.

arron (arron)

06-15-2005, 09:55 PM

mr stone. i just want be writting to you any mor since you say one thing then say you didnt. you are a condeeming man. i will write to others on this post

turtle (turtle)

06-15-2005, 11:59 PM

If you don't want to just sit on a pew and do nothng why not win souls for Jesus. Why not a street ministry or homeless shelter. Cooking meals for shut ins. and so fourth. I pray I misunderstood you erich do you wish to handle snakes????

turtle (turtle)

06-16-2005, 12:18 AM

Arron I see why you asked someone something and you did not get really an answer that is all i will say. But thank you for the indirect warning.

easeltine (easeltine)

06-16-2005, 02:49 AM

Turtle,
I have visited Rest Homes.
Snakes? That would not be my first choice. I can't even remember touching a snake in my entire life, and I am not that young.
If the Lord, and I would have to know it was the Lord. It would have to be like the Lord talking to Moses and telling him to pick up the snake that had been his rod.
Other than that...I'm from the city.

Erich

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-16-2005, 04:52 PM

EasyT, if you let the Lord lead you to take up serpents. Then the serpent would be as harmless as Moses rod. If it is the Lord. You cannot do it on your own. Just like Peter could not walk on the sea. But, when Jesus said come, he obeyed and he could. Taking up a serpent is the same way. If he gives you a leading of the Spirit. He is saying come. If you obey he will take care of you. If you are in the anointing, nothing can hurt you. It is the Word.

Arron, I am sorry you have such distaste for me. I did not wish to offend you. Altho there have been remarks I made while being aggravated in my flesh. Of those I am sorry. But, I am not sorry for standing for my beleifs. If I was it would be like me being ashamed of them. Then I would be ashamed of Jesus. Then he would be ashamed of me.

I have sught the Lord, and asked Him to let me know if I am in the wrong. Because, I do not want to do anything out of his will. So far, he has done nothing but confirm my beliefs. So I won't back down. He has no pleasure in them that draw back. So I am holding on to my beliefs.

You know, when I first decided to take up serpents. I fasted three days a week. For just about a month. I am a big guy and that was hard. I prayed for the Lord to show me it was real. I wasn't about to jump into it. Not with my life on the line. So I fasted and I prayed. I told the Lord to let me do it when it fulfilled His purpose. Whatever it might be. So the first one I took up was a southern copperhead. Not deadly but quite painful if it bites. My dad and I were taking pics of some snakes I had to send to my brother in prison. And, I had that copperhead on a hook. Dad took the pic and was standing there. All of a sudden I felt the Lord move on me to take it. He was leading me. So I obeyed. I reached down and took it off the hook. It just sat there in my hand. It was harmless as a kitten. It wouldn't hurt a fly. I began to speak in tongues. I handled for a few minutes then put back in the box.

It was an incredibly edifying expirience. To believe in something. Then feel the Lord move on you to do it. And, when you obeyed he took care of everything. He wouldn't lead you to be hurt. He wouldn't tell you to do something he thought was wrong or tempting him. And, when he anoints. Which is the Leading. He takes away all fear from you. You feel like your body is saturated. Just soaking wet, but, there is nothing there.

God used taking up serpent as a sign with moses. So the people would know God sent him. That is what the signs in the new testament are meant to do as well.

infoman (infoman)

06-16-2005, 07:03 PM

Jason _ Stone

Jesus when told by the devil quoted...
"Though shalt not TEMPT the Lord thy God."

Satan is identified as a snake that Jesus defeated. We don't gfo out and look for problems.

"Let the days own trouble suffice for the day" Mt 6

Instead of looking stupid playing around with deadly snakes.(Trying to get a goose bump, be macho and prove your faith).

Why aren't you doing the GREATER WORKS that truly prove your faith and do good.
Destroying the real works of the devil instead of wasting time and being a poor steward of your LIFE risking your life playing with snakes????

Jesus said to be healing all that are oppressed of the devil, casting out devils out of people. Laying hands on the sick and seeing them manifest healing and recovering. Preaching the Gospel with true signs and wonders following the word preached.

Most of all carrying out the highest ministry that ALL Christians are called to as stated in 2Cor5 "the ministry of reconciliation reconciling people to God through receiving Christ and his final work of blotting out the sin and barrier between God and mankind".

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-16-2005, 07:14 PM

I believe, and, I have been baptized. And, the signs follow me. Becuase, I preach the Gospel and God confirms it with signs and wonders. That way unbelievers have a much harder time trying to deny it.

As a matter of fact, I find that unbelievers understand it, and believe it. And, will come to Christ. And, they will do this quicker than a "christian".

yaakov (yaakov)

06-16-2005, 08:01 PM

<font color="0000ff">Why aren't you doing the GREATER WORKS that truly prove your faith and do good.</font>

It is scary, Infoman. Right after reading Jason’s post, I had the exact same thought. Since he fasted for 12 days during the month (3 days X 4 weeks), he could’ve donated that food to Second Harvest or other charitable group. Instead of comforting a snake, he could’ve gone to a hospital and comforted people.

turtle (turtle)

06-16-2005, 10:15 PM

thank you Yaakov love what you said. Jason please listen we not condemming you but snake handling really proves nothing. I dont' know to many that it would impress unless it is a small group of hilly billies that live in the back woods and no nothing of the outside of their cave.

jason_stone (jason_stone)

06-17-2005, 03:28 AM

Taking up serpents is simply a sign that believers do with the the working with them. It is a manifestation of the Spirit. The same as a healing or speaking in tongues.

Yaakov, I never said anything about comforting a snake. I not handled serpents at this time, but, had a greater manfifestation of the Spirit all the way around. I was healed of a bad infection due to a wisdom tooth. I had greater anointing in my music too. It was really a great help to our ministry.

Snake handling is meant to prove the same thing that God told moses his signs would. It is proof that God is with you, and, that you are speaking his Word.

You know, the other day I was at some freinds house. I met them over the internet. They believe the same as I do. As far as the signs. One boy was raised in it. He is 28. The other boy had never seen it. But, he believed in it. He is 26.

They live over in a small town not far from here. They have seen a few snakes around their property so I went on a little hunt while I was there. I went down to the creek with my hook and started to flip over rocks and things hoping to see anything. The younger boy went with me.

He had never seen someone take up a serpent in person. Only from videos and books. He said it scared him to think about it. So I began to explain to him the difference in looking at something in our carnal mind. And, looking at something in our spiritual mind.

In the natural we can not comprehend taking up a serpent. It just doesn't agree with our flesh. We have a fear of it. And, rightly so. But, when you are in the Spirit it is not the same. When you are in church and the Spirit is moving and you can feel it. And, you are out of your natural way of thinking you have no fear when you see it. I was explaing this, and I had my back to him. He used a stick to flip over a rock and a serpent was under it. He yelled for me and I came to where it was.

I tried my hook at first, but, it was so small it just jumped off. It was just a northern water snake. Not dangerous really. I knew what it was, so I just grabbed it by the tail.(never, ever, do it with a venomous serpent). It started whipping around, twirling and trying to bite me. Then I felt the Spirit start to move on me. I began speaking in tongues. The snake calmed down and I cradled it in my hand. I handled it for a minute, then I got it behind the head and we started back to the house. I decided to keep it.

Even tho it was not dangerous, it was trying to bite me. And, the Holy Ghost moved on me and made it gentle. To him it could have been and eastern diamondback. He was so elated. He said he felt the Spirit when I started to speak in tongues. And, like I was saying he felt all the fear leave him. It really edified him. And, it helped to understand looking at something spiritual in the carnal don't make sense. But, if you let go of you r carnality, and hold to the Spirit. It makes perfect sense.

Turtle, you know about tongues and interpretation. The Holy Ghost speaks and says His signs are holy. When you speak against them you are speaking against something holy. It is the same thing you would say to a person who said tongues were of the devil.