Apologetics in the church

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">For many years I was a Christian who knew very little about how to actually defend the faith, I thought growing up that Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggart were defenders of the faith!
It wasnt until about 10-12 years ago that I heard my first Bible Answer Man broadcast with Hank Haanagraaf that I out about apologetics and then a whole new world was opened up to me!

So to make a long story short I begin to study everything, Norman Geisler to Josh McDowell and I begin to learn more and more and so recently I went to my pastor who is ignorant of apologetics but he is still a very effective communicator of the gospel and I ask permission to teach a Sunday School class on Apologetics on a strictly sign-up voluntary basis for 12 weeks and he says no because he says apologetics and intellectualism are contrary to Gods word!
I think emotionalism has replaced intellectualism and that is the problem with today's church, so what would you do?
in HIS grip, Stabi</font>

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">My real question is do you believe there is a place for apologetics in the church?
It seems to me that any GED wielding atheist can blow most Christians sitting in pews weekly out of the water in debates.
I have read most of the cookie cutter apologists from Geisler and Haanagraaf to Lee Strobel but can anyone point me to some real deep thinkers of apologetics?
Thanks in advance.
in HIS grip, Stabi</font>

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Stabi,

I'm a hard-nosed conservative and I don't like the specualtive tendencies of Apologetics. That kind of knowledge puffeth up. I'm tough on rightly dividing the Word in order to come up with the answers. Their questions need to be answered, of course. The Word of God is sharper than any two edged sword. I'd rather focus my life on becoming more handy with the Word of God to answer Apologetic-type questions than the secular humanistic logic. "I will give you a mouth and wisdom and all your aadversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist." Luke 21:15. You're not going to get very far with folks until you get them saved. Have you ever had the experience where you were totally off guard and unprepared to answer but somehow the Lord gave you the right words, and when you went back to think about it later you knew that you weren't that smart but the Lord gave it to you?

[turtle (turtle)]

Stabi,
I have never read one of the apologetic books.
Actually I do not know much about these books. But I do think it is time that the church biblically start explain why they believe certain dcotrines and faith. There are so many poeple tht do not know the Word of God and they need to understand God has answers for them in His Word. But at the same time I do not know if I would expose all people to such discussions do to lack of interest and the ability to twist what is said for their own purpose.

[wyoming (wyoming)]

.

At least half of them will lead you astray. Can you afford that? Trust yourself to study the Bible for yourself. When the scriptures are written upon you heart which means you don't have any learned prejudices, the holy spirit will convict you.

[turtle (turtle)]

wyoming, would you believe I had never heard the wod Christian apologetic til a week or so ago maybe a little further back then that but not much. And I have been on factnet since january of this year. I think it has been wise I did not know about it because I may of gone and bought a book eight months ago to help me with a problem I had instead of relying sololy on God to teach me what I needed to know about several situations.

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Perhaps I'm being a little harsh. They teach Apologetics and Systematic Theology in the seminaries [cemetaries]. Such topics might be The Nature of God, Proofs of God, General Revelation, etc. Yes, I'm interested in the nature of God but the <u>scriptures</u> reveal it to me automatically by the Holy Spirit, not by intellectual logic. That doesn't make me an intellectual dead head. The intellect is a limited human power, that we must make use of, but it falls short of the teaching and convicting power of the H.S. Perhaps most of it is good, but there is some element of speculation. A non-Christian could take the classes and pass the classes with an "A". The material could be liberal or conservative, depending upon the authors. There's that element of chance again.

[infreedom (infreedom)]

Apologetics gave us most of the New Testament. Whole sections of the Epistles are basically apologetics. For ten years I went badly astray because I refused to look logically and clearly at Scripture and refused to hear what apologetists said. All apologetics is is looking as clearly as possible at what the Word actually says and trying to explain it clearly to the church and to the world. It's true that apologetics can be taken as a college course and passed without the least inspiration by the Spirit. But Sunday school classes and sermons can be attended and content learned in the same way.

[wyoming (wyoming)]

<font color="0000ff">All apologetics is is looking as clearly as possible at what the Word actually says and trying to explain it clearly to the church and to the world.</font>

The new testament gives us the apologetics.

Regarding the text books... the material could be liberal or conservative, or learning toward certain doctrines, depending upon the authors.

[infreedom (infreedom)]

You're right about needing to watch the slant of any textbooks -- or any other books for that matter. But I just came out of a group that forbade the reading of any books at all other than those of the fewer than half dozen writers they approve of and a few how-to books. If I had used the critical thinking skills I'd learned in college in conjunction with the discernment the Lord gave me and the Christian teaching I'd received previously, I wouldn't have gotten involved with that group in the first place. So I'm finished with my anti-intellectual phase. Now I'm into using some judgment and not tossing out the baby with the bath.

[wyoming (wyoming)]

.

You've now got an equilibrium and it came the hard way. We need to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

[easeltine (easeltine)]

We tried something for a while at our church that seemed to help some of the people. We started Bible notebooks with different Christian topics. It gets gigantic if you like writing, though it helps with a person's knowledge of Scripture. Have you heard of doing this before?

[overseas (overseas)]

I am big fan of apologetics cause I find it all over Scripture. But it may be a confusion between biblical inherent apologetics and the academic discipline so-called (which sometimes probably tries to prove what cannot/ should not be proved).
As for intelect, my understanding is not intellect vs. Holy Spirit but from the Holy Spirit to our intelect and heart.