Cantb live with them and cantb live without them

[turtle (turtle)]

Men have blamed woman for the fall of man since the beginning of time. Sarah was the fault of two nations being formed that would not get along. Women have influence men since the dawn of time whether for good or for evil. Do woman control men in away that is dangerous or is man at fault for listening to us.

[love22698 (love22698)]

man is or has always been tempted by the woman, by her beauty and charm. sex has a great part in this temptation too. no man should alow himself to be weaked to the point of sin in the way of temptation by the woman, but. it happens

[yaakov (yaakov)]

turtle

Are you serious with this post? It is way past April 1st, you know. Is this truly mainstream Christian thinking?

[turtle (turtle)]

Yaakov I am serious about the question but is it mainstream christian thinking? Christians believe that man is head of our households and churches. And God being over both.

Now in todays society that statement isnt' always true about men being head of household. Men blame woman liberators. Woman get blame again for things being out of order. Men think they can just step right back in and take charge, but woman have a habit of getting a hold of something and never letting go. So how do woman learn submissiveness but through her husband and how do men learn to take charge again but through woman and if it don't work right woman will be blamed.

[godchild (godchild)]

Yaakov, Turtle is giving you her own opinion. No one speaks for me.

[yaakov (yaakov)]

I was amazed reading your opinions. It is completely dissimilar from my religion. God created man and woman to be partners, neither is complete without the other. Spouses are equal to each other, but each have separate spheres of influence. Neither is lesser in importance to the other. The woman's greatest purpose is to maintain the household and raise their sons to be scholars. The man's greatest purpose to actually become a scholar. However, without a good woman, it would be near impossible for the man to succeed.

In Jewish tradition, women are held to be holier than men. Men need to recite extra blessings above and beyond the women's portion for this reason.

[egk (egk)]

Yaakov,

I've been told by various sources that in some periods Jewish males thank God that they were not born Gentiles and not born female. Have I been misinformed?

In Catholicism and I believe much of Christianiy, men and women are equal and both reflect the image and likeness of God. The holiest human, after the humanity of Jesus, is his mother Mary.

EGK

[turtle (turtle)]

I agree men and woman should be treated as equals but lets get a reality check often times this is not so in private relationships to public relationships. I just thought it was interesting both eve and sarah were at fought in their situation. Eve blamed the serpent and Sarah took the blame herself for telling abraham to procreate with her maid. Fact is woman seem to still take quite a bit of heat because of this.

[love22698 (love22698)]

mary was not holy as far as divinity is concerned. JESUS is the only mortal that was ever born sinless.

[yaakov (yaakov)]

<font color="0000ff">I agree men and woman should be treated as equals but lets get a reality check often times this is not so in private relationships to public relationships. I just thought it was interesting both eve and sarah were at fought in their situation. Eve blamed the serpent and Sarah took the blame herself for telling abraham to procreate with her maid. Fact is woman seem to still take quite a bit of heat because of this.</font>

Woman don't take the heat alone in Judaism.

If you recall from my prior postings, our religions have two entirely different takes on Adam and Eve. No "great fall" exists in ours. The boo-boo that both Adam and Eve made was failing to take responsibility for their error. They both tried to blame something else for their own actions.

Sarah got jealous of Ishmael. However, she did the RIGHT thing in driving him off, there was no sin there. Ismael wasn't qualifed to be God's inheritor.

Judaism believes men and women are separate AND equal. We each have different duties and roles, but none is inferior to the other.

[yaakov (yaakov)]

egk

<font color="0000ff">I've been told by various sources that in some periods Jewish males thank God that they were not born Gentiles and not born female. Have I been misinformed?</font>

This is true, but it is ripped out of context. Here is the true context:

A man is required to make three prayers daily, that God has made me an Israeli, that God has not made me a woman, and that God has not made me a heathen. The motive of these three prayers combined is an expression of gratitude for the privilege of having the duty of carrying out the precepts of the Torah. Because of the woman's domestic obligations, she is released from a category of religious duties. The legal ruling is that the woman is exempt from commands of "Thou Shalt", because these must occur at specific points in time. For example, the command to put on phylacteries is not obligatory upon the woman.

The importance of the woman's role is taught by this Talmudic passage: It is related of a pious man who was married to a pious woman that, being childless, they divorced one another. He went and married a wicked woman and she made him wicked. She went and married a wicked man and made him righteous. Therefore it follows that all depends upon the woman.

Here is a Talmudic story complimenting women: An emperor said to rabbi Gamaliel "Your God is a thief, because it is written, 'The Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and He took one of the ribs'. The rabbi's daughter said to her father, "Leave him to me; I will answer him." She then said to the emperor, "Give me an officer to investigate a complaint." "For what purpose?" he asked; and she replied, "Thieves broke into our house during the night and stole a silver ewer belonging to us, but left a gold one behind." "Would that such a thief visited me every day, " he exclaimed. "Was it not, then, a splendid thing for the first man when a single rib was taken from him and a woman to attend upon him was supplied in its stead?" she retorted.

[turtle (turtle)]

yaakov, it strange to me abraham did not apologize for sleeping with Hagar but Sarah came to him with a repented attitude.

And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
(Genesis 16:5)