POLYGAMY IS IT BIBLICAL A SIN

[msmithluvnlife (msmithluvnlife)]

POLYGAMY! It was practiced by many Biblical patriarchs (Abraham, David, Solomon, and numerous others,) is this a practice that was condoned by The LORD GOD of the Tanach(OLD Testament?) Is this practice supported in the NEW Testament? IS it IMMORAL?? IS THIS PRACTICE DEMEANING to women??? WHY???

PLEASE state your Biblical-historical reasons why you believe God, either, a) prohibited this practice, b) endorsed this practice.

KEEP IN MIND, it's illegal in the U.S.!!! So, dont get your hopes up guys!! WOMEN, please weigh in on this. I want to hear both men and women!

PERSONALLY, I'M AGAINST THIS PRACTICE! I believe it demeans women and treats them as mere private property, and dehumanizes them.

Am I right or wrong?? Let's hear your best case. Keep it clean, and respect others to please the Lord.

THANK YOU!!

MSMITHLUVNLIFE!

[love22698 (love22698)]

it is sin. GOD made man and woman put them together, one man .. one woman.. till death parts

[stonecutter (stonecutter)]

"Thou shalt not commit adultery" or thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife" I think pretty much answers that one!!!

[steelsword (steelsword)]

How many help-meets did God provide for Adam?

[msmithluvnlife (msmithluvnlife)]

Everyone:

Please keep in mind, I'm not condoning polygamy. However, take a look at the following websites. I want to see if anyone can post a Biblical case against polygamy. Please read the following links first before you begin:


http://www.biblicalpolygamy.com

and,

http://www.atruechurch.info/polygamy.html


I have a good friend who won't listen to me reason. He says that he has a hard time accepting Biblical integrity, and the holiness of God because of this issue. He seems to think God approves of this practice, even though my friend detests it himself. Once several of you have made a reasonably good, comprehensive case FROM THE WHOLE OF SCRIPTURES, I will refer this link to him to read your input. Please make it your best case.

Thanks for your valued input,

MSMITHLUVNLIFE.

[warr (warr)]

I don't think God ever approved of this men just did this out of their own free will just because something took place in bible times doesn't make it okay many of the men lost there blessing(solomen) because of it

[yaakov (yaakov)]

Msmithluvnlife

Neat topic. I looked up polygamy in Judaism and this is what I found:

The Tanakh specifically says that a king should not have too many wives, and thus there is polygamy inferred. None of the prophets chastised David for having 7 wives, nor Moses for having 2, nor Jacob for having 2+2, and many who had multiple wives were said to be "favored by the Lord" (Gideon in Judges 8:30, Elkanah in 1 Samuel 1:2, and so forth). Deut. 21:15-16 speaks of how to handle a polygamous marriage where one of the wives has fallen out of favor. The polygamy is not spoken of poorly, but as a matter of fact. Much of this "God didn't intend man to be polygamous" comes from Matthew who has jesus saying just that and is part of the Christian tradition, but not the Jewish one.

In Judaism, every wife must be provided with her own dwelling and household, so it was usually a matter of wealth that dictated such an arrangement. Also, the earlier wife/wives have the option to divorce if they don't like the idea of a newcomer coming into the family.(Bavli Yevamot 65a)

There is no prohibition against having more than one wife in the Tanakh. The reason it's not practiced today is because according to Jewish law we are supposed to follow the laws of the country we live in so long as it doesn't cause us to violate Jewish law. As such, there was a rabbinical prohibition against multiple wives for European Jews.

Israeli law generally allows only one wife today, but allowances are made for immigrants coming from other countries where polygamy is allowed (mainly Yemen). Of course, some groups still practice it even though they've been living in Israel for several generations, but this legal violation is mostly ignored by the government.

The biblical laws themselves are still in existence. We just choose to not take advantage of them. Also, the reasoning behind polygamy (high infant mortality rates, guarantee of heirs, etc) is pretty much gone in the modern world with monogamy being far safer (STD's, much longer life spans, low infant mortality rates, etc).

In the book "Biblical Literacy", Rabbi Joseph Teluskin explains how not necessarily everything our forefathers in the Tanakh did is recommended, even though they did them. Having more than one wife is one of these things. The Tanakh actually does more justice by showing the resulting catastrophes of these kinds of behavior, rather than just saying outright, "a man should not have more than one wife".

What the Torah allows, the Sages emphasized. What the Torah forbids, the Sages emphasized. This collection of information is condensed to a code of conduct, the Shulchan Aruch, through which the Torah Observant Jew lives his or her life. The Shulchan Aruch does speak of polygamy, but it also denotes that we accept that we will not violate the laws of the country where we are guests. As it is with divorce, making a king, taking a woman for yourself in wartime, polygamy is not noted as being the proclaimed way of life that one must do, but there are mitzvot surrounding it to make it workable. And thus, not doing it where it would cause problems is not limiting one from doing a mitzvah, although there are some exceptions, such as one who has an infertile wife. And thus, there are those who do divorce in such a situation because they cannot have more than one wife in many of the outside lands.

There is a Rabbinical way to reinstate polygamy on a case-by-case basis, but it requires a lot of work by the man who wants to do this, such as filing out forms and getting all of the signatures required. One restriction is that a man must prove that he can provide separate, but equal households for <u>every</u> wife. This includes a house, car, food, utilities, and everything else that goes with it. Jewish law does not follow the Mormon view of polygamy that allows everyone to live in one house.

Caution is required regarding polygamy since many people have a personal agenda. They would try to reinterpret halacha (Jewish Law in practice) when they are either not qualified to do so, or in doing so they would need to dispose of existing halacha for which they have no authority to do so. And in the end, they either participate in a faction that does not recognize halacha, and thus they are free to interpret as they will, or they create their own faction which aligned with the non-observant segment while not wishing to be part of them.

When it comes to polygamy, <u>the halacha is very clear that it doesn't prohibit it, but it does restrict it</u> for reasons that are noted within it.

In addition, polygamy means to be married and to support multiple women at the same time. It does NOT mean to have sex with multiple women simultaneously. That can lead to not treating a wife fairly and is prohibited by halacha.

[logos (logos)]

Genesis 2:24.. This explains it all.. Wife not Wives.. Hope this helps out mssmith

[doug (doug)]

No Marriage in Heaven/ No Polygamy Now
Solomon’s many wives were an allegory of the many nations who Messiah came to make one. His sin with them, Christ dying for our sin. That is why God tolerated polygamy at one time. After Messiah came to make the many one there was no more toleration of having more than one wife. After the marriage supper of the lamb there will be no more marriage.

Marriage says to me that one has not been to the marriage supper of the lamb. Polygamy says to me that one does not believe that Christ came in the flesh to make the many one.

[cybermom (cybermom)]

1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

Obviously, if being monogomous was important in the leadership of the early church, it's important now. There are certain "pastors" within the Body of Christ today that believe they can have many "spiritual" wives. This is, of course, just a "religious" excuse for adultery.

Cybermom

[love22698 (love22698)]

amen... one wife one husband .. till death. one man one woman... god created man and wqoman and put them together not these that come together.. adam and steve... but adam and eve

[msmithluvnlife (msmithluvnlife)]

Yaakov: Thanks for your explanation. Also, Doug, according to your understanding, was Solomon also an allegory? My understanding was that he was a literal, historical figure with a literal temple that he had built? What think ye?

MSMITHLUVNLIFE.

[easeltine (easeltine)]

Yaakov,

I think that Christians don't practice polygamy for the main reason you state, that is not to violate the laws of government. If you didn't have the law I think some would be married to more than one wife. Cybermom mentions ministers, and I think that they would be head of the list.

Paul tells these churches in the NT to choose Elders and Deacons who have one wife because some in these churches had more than one wife. It also seems that Paul would allow for a man to have more than one wife if he had them b-4 he became a Christian.

It is interesting to note that there is evidence that Martin Luther allowed Prince Philip of Hussey to have two wives as long as he kept them in two houses. Luther had the same ideas that you stated Yaakov.

Love22698, I hope Arnold vetos the California Legislature like he is promising, I don't want marriage to be between Adam and Steve.

Erich

[warr (warr)]

In the earlier times women were looked upon as possessions-of coarse as society matures we now know women and men are equals-most women are way to smart to allow anything like this to happen my goodness one solid relationship is enough to handle!! In this day with equal rights if a man was allowed to have many wives women would have many husbands-it would be a mess. And even if you don't agree with Adam and Steve-you still need to love them as much as christ does-by casting cocky remarks out like that you only hurt and push people away remember Jesus hung around some "different types" a former prostitute, a sleazy tax collector and some stinky fisherman- love the sinner

[dondi (dondi)]

I myself am a deacon in my church and this scripture comes up quite often Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
To me , as it is dictated in my bible, it is the qualifications and duties of elders in the church. Personally, I am not, I repeat, condoning multiple wives. I do believe as the bible has stated, one man, one wife. To be honest, I have trouble keeping up with my one; singular; wife, let alone 2 or more. As Warr put it, women were looked upon as possesions in those times. As it is, woman was created to be a "help" to man. Gen. 2:18. Not a possesion, not a slave but a helper, and I can say that my wife is my greatest helper.

[easeltine (easeltine)]

Warr,

"Love22698, I hope Arnold vetos the California Legislature like he is promising, I don't want marriage to be between Adam and Steve."

I am still going to pray and hope that the Governor of California does the right thing and upholds Proposition 23 that 61% of Californians voted for and vetos the Homosexual Marriage Legislation that the California State Legislature passed while we were all looking at the hurricane situation.

Erich

[love22698 (love22698)]

amen to that

[turtle (turtle)]

Did God approve of more then one wife? Good question. Truth I do not believe God approved of more then one wife per man. And men today in the USA may even say one is hard enough to handle.
Romans 1:25- . I do believe man had his own ideas concerning more then one wife. Abraham did as his wife suggested because she hadn't beared him any children and it was past her ability to conceive or so she thought. God corrected David, Correct solomon. David we know repented, Solomon is a big question mark. Even though God forbids certain things it doesn't mean man doesn't do it anyway. Eve sinned by eating the fruit and adam took it from eve. Man made idols to worhip instead of worshipping God. Cain killed even though God warned Cain. so on and so forth. What made Abraham righteous, and what made David righteous? What man is without sin.

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

John 8:7
(7) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Not even Abraham or David or many of the bible heros of old were perfect or without sin. But God because of his love for man demonstrated grace for all. Whether before Christ or after Christ. Grace is the key, forgiveness to all who seek God and believe in His promise.

[doug (doug)]

<font color="0000ff">Also, Doug, according to your understanding, was Solomon also an allegory? My understanding was that he was a literal, historical figure with a literal temple that he had built? What think ye?

MSMITHLUVNLIFE.</font>
I believe Paul, or someone writing the scripture, said that Hagar and Sarah were allegories of the law and grace, one had a child of the promise and one was a child of the handmaid. The law is fine as a handmaid to grace but when it starts to mock grace it has to go.
Christ was the temple - "Tear down this temple and I will rebuild it in 3 days" or something like that. Solomon was the builder of the temple. He was both a real person and an allegory just like Sarah and Hagar with Isaac and Ishmael, but I believe "knowing no man according to the flesh" means the physical doesn't matter except as it tells a spiritual story.

[msmithluvnlife (msmithluvnlife)]

Doug: Thanks for your explanation.

[godchild (godchild)]

msmith, God's ideal was revealed in the story of creation; one man, one woman. Jacob, for example, lived according to the standards of his time. What he did was moral and right as far as he knew. The fact that he had more than one wife caused a lot of problems, not only for himself, but for the women; jealousy and competition. Kings were commanded not to take more than one wife, I believe because it showed greed. If you look at Solomon this was his downfall. Whoever had the most of anything was considered great; horses, gold and siver, wives. Solomon's pagan wives eventually caused him to turn away from God.
The New Testament makes it quite clear there is to be one husband, one wife.
When you look at the history of mormons who practiced polygamy, those men were not only marrying more than one woman, but those women's daughters and sisters, which the Old Testament states a man is not to sleep with a woman's sister while she is alive. It caused a whole lot of problems.
Here is a good quote for your friend from Larry Richard's book, 735 Bible Questions Answered, "We do not build doctrine on reports of how God's people behaved but rather on the direct teaching of Scripture."
Personally, I believe God has great patience with humankind.

[warr (warr)]

turtle saying that men in the USA may feel one wife is all they can handle-same could be said on the woman's part too-let's not make it look like women are the only creatures who deal with jealousy,vanity and greed. warr

(Message edited by warr on September 13, 2005)

[turtle (turtle)]

Warr,
I meant that has a joke about men can't handle to woman, just like what I am fixing to say woman can't handle to boys. One is enough to deal with. Sorry. should of made a point of clarifying that sentence as a joke. Rest I am serious about though. Maybe the joke is only for the region of the country i live in.

[warr (warr)]

No problem Turtle-It's something I've heard many times before warr