The Sarcophobia of a certain group of gnostics

[lampada (lampada)]

Greetings FACTNet users. I have been told that "Your sense that sex is somehow the
greatest sin smacks of the sarcophobia of certain groups of Gnostics."I approached the person about this, but I also an opening up to resonance among y'all.

[yaakov (yaakov)]

Sex with your spouse is one of the holiest acts that you can do.

[lampada (lampada)]

And what religion do you belong to yaakov?
And how long have you been married?

[doug (doug)]

Sex is not a sin. When you make death alive it is because of sin, an outcropping of sin. When one has children they are bringing beings into the first Adam's death until or if they are brought to life in the second Adam. Does that sound gnostic?

[lampada (lampada)]

Doug - pardon me, but that sounds like bull****. LOL. Huh?

Look, I do not know what gnostic is. I was exposed to a neo-Gnostic cult, well the transformed version of it called Christ the Savior Brotherhood. This is where I was catechized, baptized, married, birthed, baptized...And then came into the OCA for re-chrismation...and divorce finally. So the majority of my so called Christian life took place in a cult. So I do not even know what Gnostic is.

So you want to direct me somewhere to get help with this?

[doug (doug)]

Don't know what a bull****ter could help with. I commented on what you posted.

<font color="0000ff">I have been told that "Your sense that sex is somehow the
greatest sin smacks of the sarcophobia of certain groups of Gnostics."I approached the person about this, but I also an opening up to resonance among y'all.</font>



<font color="0000ff">So you want to direct me somewhere to get help with this?</font>
I'd recommend www.fhu.com (http://www.fhu.com) and get Roys phone # and call him when he counsels people.


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[lampada (lampada)]

Greetings Doug
I am trying to unearth the heresy in my mind that came from certain groups of ascetic Gnostics. Some how I got this notion that sex is the greatest of sins and I want to get rid of it, and I need help. Not from psychology, but from theology. Perhaps this is not the right place.

[godchild (godchild)]

lampada, I read your question on another thread; wanting to know how you casting love spells caused problems. You seemed to be looking for theology then, too, until a socalled witch came on with advice for you. You seemed thrilled by that. Can't she help you with this question?
Witchcraft and Christian theology don't mix, so I can't help you. In other words, you can't have both. This is taught in both the Old and New Testaments.

[lampada (lampada)]

God Child, I seemed to be indicates I was not. What makes you think you can see clearly? Perhaps you were born cross eyed.

Duh Witchcraft and Christian theology don't mix. What do you think I am, a total moron?
Who said I wanted witchcraft?
Where on this thread do you read witchcraft?
Who are you?
What gives you so much authority?
I said I wanted to look at the Gnostic heresy of a certain group of ascetics. What the heck does that have to do with witchcraft?
You are very myopic. I suggest you get some glasses.

[yaakov (yaakov)]

lampada

<font color="0000ff">Some how I got this notion that sex is the greatest of sins and I want to get rid of it, and I need help.</font>

Where did that notion come from? It makes no sense at all. No sex means no kids. God’s creation of humans would only last one generation.

[lampada (lampada)]

Yaakov,
Ah you are talking about procreation. I am talking about sex for pleasure, which I understand is a part of the Jewish religion, but not the Catholic religion, neither of which I am a member of by the way.

I do not know where that notion came from...the devil I think. He is tormenting me.

[lampada (lampada)]

Titus
Already left October 10 2004.
Belong to the Orthodox Church in America.
Yes those guys.
Finally someone gets it.
Praise the Lord.

[sue (sue)]

Lampada -
You are misinformed on the Catholic Church's view of sex. This is an excerpt from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. (The catechism goes into more detail - this just pertains to what you stated).

Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 6, SubSection 3

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude." 145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them.

Also - Here is a link to information on ascetic gnosticism.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm

[godchild (godchild)]

lampada, I have no special authority. When you said 'y'all', I responded. My mistake. When I said I can't help you, maybe I should have added, 'but maybe someone else can'.
You, on the other hand, have insulted every person who is born with crossed eyes. I do have a crossed eye, but my vision is best in the crossed one. And I do wear glasses. But I feel very blessed, because my best friend is blind. She did not ask for the cross she has to bear either. I would expect such comments as yours from a child who knows no better, or who has a parent that teaches them this kind of bias. I would not expect that kind of comment from a mature adult. If you are a christian, you need to look at the ugly on the inside, not what you consider ugly on the outside.

[lampada (lampada)]

God child
Do not get all moral on me. I am as myopic as they come. My brother is legally blind. So what.
Who are you?
An authority figure? Only if you are ordained. If you are, my mistake, and I apologize. If you are not, be quiet.
Do not tell me what I need to do. I did not ask for advice.
Thank you.

[lampada (lampada)]

Titus - I am concerned about the reference to the 700 club on the ex-witch site.
What kind of Christian are you?

[lampada (lampada)]

Sue
You are right, I am uninformed. My mother left the RC church when she left home. My ex left the RC church when he left home.
Sexual pleasure.
What's that?

[warr (warr)]

find somebody-someday who loves you so much and with all they have -then you will understand sexual pleasure.

[lampada (lampada)]

Thanks Warr, I am not looking for anybody. I am waiting for somebody to find me this time. And marry me. I ain't doing sex outside of marriage no more.

I guess I should have said what difference does sexual pleasure make. so what. It's not going to save the world. It's certainly not going to save me. It's not worth the trouble. No man is responsible enough for me, that's all it comes down to. Every man I know is an irresponsible boy.

[godchild (godchild)]

What does sarcophobia mean? And what is OE? My curiosity has gotten the best of me.
Has anyone figured out yet just what lampada expects to find on factnet? Maybe her very own thread that is titled, "MINE, MINE, Mine! Stay off unless approved by me," or "lampada's very own thread. Speak to me honestly and incur my wrath." Poor child couldn't hold onto the wicca thread she claimed as 'her very own' and she's losing this one too.

[warr (warr)]

godchild-I just looked up the definition. Sarcophobia-is excessive fear and disgust in the presence of flesh-especially one's own- there's also a death metal band called sacrophobia that means opposition of spirit to body-does that help-nothttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[lampada (lampada)]

Godchild, My God you are so condescending. Who did you sleep with last night?

And it's EO fool, not OE, and it stands for Eastern Orthodox.

Quit putting me down fool. I ain't no child and I don't give a hoot about the incorrectly titled Wicca thread.

My God you are insane. You turn people off to Christianity. You are so puffed up I don't see how you stay on the ground. Lord have mercy.

Leave me alone!

[lampada (lampada)]

Yo Warr baby, are you for me or against me? Huh?
And one more thing stupid god child - I don't need no help from no American Protestant Fundamentalist Right Wing Evangelical Born Again so called Christians, all right?
Take that bull**** somewhere else

[warr (warr)]

lampada i'm not against you just trying to define a word .warr

[lampada (lampada)]

Thank God I have a friend, Warr.

[godchild (godchild)]

warr, thanks for the definition. There are a lot of words used on factnet I have never heard before. Eastern Orthodox. Interesting. My sister joined the Russian Orthodox Church when she married. The churches are beautiful. Lampada, sorry to have upset you. You see, I am only human also. Since we both rub each other the wrong way, let's stay away from each other, out of respect.

[lampada (lampada)]

<font color="ff0000">In judiasm, holy means "separate", and sex is something you do with your spouse on holy days, for a connexion just between you two, something you share where you temporarily dissolve your separation between each other for happiness and love.</font><font color="000000">
Well Titus, that is beautiful. I have never ever experienced that in my 5 year marriage.
</font><font color="ff0000">Any other use, and it becomes triviliazed, and after a while people are less intimate. </font><font color="000000">That's right. And that's why my marriage fell apart. You know I keep being told about the Jewish religion and sex. My dad comes from a Jewish family. I have a friend at the Jewish Theological Seminary. Married Jewish men have the hots for me.
Now what's that all about? See I keep hearing all this and that about the Jewish religion and how it is the man's responsibility for sexual pleasing the woman and blah blah blah.
Oh yeah? Well
1. Why did my Jewish grandmother marry and divorce 3 times?
2. Why did my Jewish father have me outside of wedlock?
3. Why have married Jewish men been trying to get in my pants since I have been a teen?
Huh?

So you have the idealized notion which you represent, Titus, and then you have the real notion, which I have experienced.

And for some more dialogue, I refer you this article on Alternet:
Feminists for Fetal Life (http://www.alternet.org/rights/24073/).

So, I will not marry outside my religion.
So where does that leave me?

I am mad about this whole sex issue.
Obviously.</font>

[lampada (lampada)]

Well Titus, interesting discussion especially about abortion. I am really in the dark. I gotta check the link. I gotta take my kid to kindergarten.

Jewish men get a jail out of free with me card and it ain't happening. No wonder the Jewish men in my church lust after me. Yuck. No wonder my Jewish dad got with my RC mom without consequence. No sin in it.

I ain't looking for no date. I know what I want. An EO sober man, one who is willing to take on a woman with a child. Dating is immature. I don't want to fool around any more.

[warr (warr)]

titus-you are an intelligent one -I clicked on the abortion link-what an interesting take-lampada if you don't date a man and get to know him a little aren't you afraid you'll end up divorced again-what do feel about the view remarriage is wrong??

[yaakov (yaakov)]

<font color="0000ff">Plus, under jewish law the "no premarital sex" maxim only applies to jewish men with jewish women-a jewish man can have sex with a non-jewish woman, even get her pregnant, with no consequence under halakhah.</font>

Titus, you were doing ok explaining about sexuality under Jewish Law, then you throw in this bull.

It is as nonsensical as me saying that christian priests are encouraged to have sex with young boys and there are no consequences to the priests.

[lampada (lampada)]

Warr:
a: I am not against dating. I am against dating without the intention of marriage. I am not interested in dating for the purpose of sex.
b: Remarriage is allowed in the EO church. In fact I have a friend preparing for remarriage right now. In addition my bishop said I could remarry if that became an option.
No problem dude.

[lampada (lampada)]

Titus, you are indeed intelligent. I am humbled. It takes a lot to humble me, but I recognize a superior intellect in you.

Ok, check this latest link about pregnant Ohio teens in relation to abstinence To Have and Have Not (http://www.alternet.org/wiretap/25183/)
<font color="ff0000">Jews don't tend to have that problem because sex is treated as just another part of life-so, not like you are taught to feel bad about wanting it, so you don't repress feelings so when you do finally do something about it, it comes out undisciplined and all over place. UIt's not so mysterious and shameful, so you don't have to treat it as such. </font><font color="000000"> My father came from a Jewish family. He chose not to do his Bat Mitzvah. Sex is one of his favorite things in the world. He supports gay rights. My mother comes from a RC family. She left the RC church when she left home.
The Jewish religion passes through the mother, so I am not Jewish as such.
</font><font color="ff0000">Go to another, bigger EO church, and hang out in their singles group. If you date, do what a rabbi told me to do-date around, see what type of person and relationship works for you. That will tell you more about what you want than any book could ever tell you.</font><font color="000000">I am not going to another church. I am in the choir. I love my church. It is liberal. It is gifted. It is my home. I will not abandon my church. There is no EO singles group and I am not interested in that. I am a single mother, remember?
A: I am not ready to date yet.
B: I got a little problem on the side anyways.</font>

[lampada (lampada)]

Yaakov - what is <font color="ff0000">halakhah. </font><font color="000000">?
Are you Jewish?</font>

[warr (warr)]

halakhah-jewish laws( I enjoy being a dictionary)-which jews are bound to-wow I never thought of jews as being sexy beasts-great business men but sexual I know what you what mean lampada about fundamentalists and there fear of sex I went to a private school where boys and girls couldn't even touch each other or they would be suspended-guess how many of those young ladiesand guys went wild after they graduated partying,getting pregnant-most christians seem to view anything as sexual bad I mean show a womens a breast on tv and God be damned but show a bunch of macho guys shooting each other up and it's okay.warr

[warr (warr)]

Titus no one is making fun of you -we just were impressed-not ticked off you took a crazy thread(no offense Lampada) and made it into a great conversation-I was joking however about the sexy beast thing-I believe what you said about the brainwashing -you should check out the andrew murray thread see what you think about the idea of eve having SEX with satan again more so called christians making sex the evil act

[lampada (lampada)]

Warr - Well since I have been 19 I have Jewish men trying to get me to undress for them, trying to feel me up, trying to touch me, trying to leave their wives for me. My father is Jewish.
As far as Christians go, my ex was a lapsed Catholic altar boy.
Lord have mercy.
My first boyfriend was the son of a Unitarian and he taught me 69 at the age of 7.
What other scandal can I share with you?

[lampada (lampada)]

Titus - I do not think my father counts as Jewish because he did not go through with Bat Mitzvah nor does he believe in God per se.


My aunt has been trying to get me to read the book A Few Good Men by Michael Rose about the scandal in the Catholic Church also one about women leading the fight for change in the RC church.

My grandmother's family is from Rome.

[lampada (lampada)]

Titus, dear, I never said Jewish men were sexy beasts. Those are Warr's words, not mine, all right? Jewish men probably are mentally healthy. But I ain't Jewish. I am EO and I want an EO man!

I am glad the rabbis can talk about the size of genitalia. You know how many male genitalia I have seen? So what. It is not the size, nor the technique, it is the love and commitment. Check one of my favorite feminists:
Susie Bright (http://www.susiebright.com/). I have known about her since I was a teen. I am a trained HIV/STD prevention counselor. I know all about safe sex and sexual pleasure. So damn what. I got a kid to raise. I need a domestic partner.

I do not need no self help book on sex. I need a man to help me raise my kid.

I have no problem with sex after marriage. I have a problem with idiots who do not understand the connection between sex and procreation and just want to get off at the psychological expense of the woman. For me sex is just that psychological, the physical pales in comparison. Plus I am pretty kinky, just to let you know, like 87% more than most folks...No it's all about the intelligent baby. I find most men to be, well, stupid.

I am looking for an extremely intelligent EO man to help me raise my kid. That's it. Nothing less.

[lampada (lampada)]

Titus - what is a wiseacre? you are intelligent baby, accept it, own it, love it.

[lampada (lampada)]

Titus - What in the world gave you the idea I was leaving the EO church? I am 100% loyal baby, 100%. I will die in the EO church.
I thought that article reminded me of my black relatives up in Spokane, WA pumping out babies for boredom. Or my ex father in law, pumped out 16.
I think it is sick.
I hope Planned Parenthood, who my father supports by the way, gets in there and straightens these stupid folks out.
If I did not have to raise a kid, I might go and do it my self.
I hate being a mother by the way.

[lampada (lampada)]

Warr - Crazy thread? Are you putting me down again? Why? I am too much for you? too out there?

[warr (warr)]

No I'm not putting you down-I love your threads sometimes I don't quit understand them at first but they are interesting what is your age I'm curious you've been thru many trails but i feel your still a young woman in her 20's am I correct? Have a Great Day-if you hate being a mom was adoption not a choice for you I only have one child too-I do love kids just only wanted one-don't have anymore if you hated it the first time around

[lampada (lampada)]

Hi Warr, I will tell you my age in private, not in public.
I chose to conceive my child. She was no freaking accident. I hate/love being a mom. I am a passionate woman.
Please do not tell me to have a great day. Say "may you be blessed".
At the rate I am going, I will not have any more kids for I am attracted to men of the wrong sexual orientation.
Most people do not quite understand me at first, it is ok, I am used to that.

[warr (warr)]

may you be blessed http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[yaakov (yaakov)]

warr

<font color="0000ff">wow I never thought of jews as being sexy beasts</font>

Oy, the secret is out.

R-r-r-r-r-r-r…I’m a sexy beast! Bash-bash-bash [thumping my chest]

(Message edited by Yaakov on September 15, 2005)

[yaakov (yaakov)]

titus1_13

You are mixing multiple topics and reaching erroneous conclusions. First you said:

<font color="0000ff">under jewish law the "no premarital sex" maxim only applies to jewish men with jewish women-a jewish man can have sex with a non-jewish woman, even get her pregnant, with <u>no consequence</u> under halakhah.</font>

Now, you say:

<font color="0000ff">…if a Jewish man marries and divorces a non-jewish woman, it has no effect on his jewish status once he goes to schul-only marriages to jews count under jewish law.</font>

These are two different topics.
1) If a Jewish man makes a woman pregnant (no matter her religion), then he has an obligation to the child.
2) If a Jewish man marries a non-Jewish woman, then he is married and he is still a Jew.
a) Some rabbis may not perform a marriage to a non-Jew, but he can get a secular or Reform marriage.
b) If he has a child, no matter his marital status, he has an obligation to his child.

His child would not be considered Jewish.

<font color="0000ff">BTW, the catholic church did encourage priests to have sex, by way of not stopping them but covering it up…</font>

I think the church puts its priests into a precarious position by attempting to enforce celibacy, but I don’t think the church encourages its priests to rape young boys. I find your statements outrageous.

[jeff_p (jeff_p)]

Here is a great teaching on sex that addresses most all of your questions lampada, including the catholic call to celibacy, the act being a sin, etc. :

"Sex as God Intended It to Be":
http://vineyardcolumbus.org/resources/sermons/sound_files/2005/082805.mp3

More teachings on sex are in the "Living Sanely In An Insane World" series at http://vineyardcolumbus.org/index.asp.
The teaching on "Healing for the Sexually Broken" is awesome also.

[doug (doug)]

<font color="0000ff">Greetings Doug
I am trying to unearth the heresy in my mind that came from certain groups of ascetic Gnostics. Some how I got this notion that sex is the greatest of sins and I want to get rid of it, and I need help. Not from psychology, but from theology. Perhaps this is not the right place.</font>
Doctrine, theology ... I think Roy covers it all and ties it together

[lampada (lampada)]

Doug
I am on a biblical studies group and that satisfies me. Thank you. I have had enough of psychology to last me a lifetime and then some. I need to get grounded in the bible. I am a christian and that is my holy book.
May you be blessed.

[sharon (sharon)]

godchild... Nice of you to try and help but you know the truth do you not, there is very little truth here.

Yaakov... I went to look up Zion just to try and understand it better and I hate to say it but a hate site came up as number one. How can I change that, is there a place to complain to. I saw the truth of it but someone who did not understand hate tracts may fall for that garbage.

[yaakov (yaakov)]

Sharon

<sigh> That happens nowadays with the free-wheeling internet. You get good along with the bad. Both Zion and Jew gets lots of hate sites. Jewish and Judaism get you the real thing.

You can try complaining to the specific search engine people. I know that google has been persuaded to remove some hate sites. I don't know about the other search engines.