Dispensationalism

[jstrange (jstrange)]

Dispensationalism is the belief in the model of the "endtimes" as described by John Darby. It's the basis for the Left Behind series.
Its proponents proseletize aggressively, and because they believe that the apocaplypse is at hand, are singularly unconcerned about the problems facing the world, other than that they are "signs of the times". I find this rather disturbing, as it encourages passivity.
Some say that it has a huge influence on US policies. Should it be considered a cult (albeit a large one), and if so, how should it be dealt with?

[franklin (franklin)]

Preach the gospel to them, one by one. They are out of balance with the teachings of Christ. What did Christ teach us to do differently when the endtimes come? Nothing. So do and preach what he did tell us. Don't add what you wish he had said. Just love God and one another. Let tomorrow take care of itself.

[elijah (elijah)]

You need to recognize there is a whole spectrum in dispensatinalism. Unfortunatly part of that spectrum is as you discribe. But it would not be at all fair to label all dispensationalists after Hal Lindsey or Tim Lehay...

I know a number of dispensationalsists and they don't all sit around drawing end-times charts or reading the latest newspaper headline into the book of Revelation. and some of them are even seeking to engage the culture around them...

All that said though, I agree there are some parts of the spectrum of dispensationalism that are cultic... but I also see culticness in some areas of Covenant theology too...

cheers, elijah

[eightyeight (eightyeight)]

Jstrange
first of all you are already contradicting yourself
Quote:
"Its proponents proseletize aggressively"

Quote:
"I find this rather disturbing, as it encourages passivity."

Hello?

Most dispensationalists don't know who they are because that is just a word that has been given those who take the
prophecy's in the Bible literally when it is obviously stated.

It turns out that many don't, in fact many (especially Theological Seminary Grads)
don't believe the Bible inerrancy at all.
They have been infiltrated with mysticism and new age thinking and the positive thinking of Robert Schuler types so
that they can't bear the reality of prophecy anymore and have to find a way to make it nicer
and more victorious for the glory of man.
The opposing view is Latter Rain Dominionism.
Is that what you are? Or do you know what you are
This group is very deceptive on what it's true
beliefs are and mostly the younger, more immature
and follower types adhere to it.

Also I have read some strange doctrines attached to those who believe Revelation is future,
I think it is just to make Premill's look ignorant

Are you in a church that preaches This?

"Advancing the Kingdom of God"
If you are then you are in a Domminionist church
Or perhaps they don't know that is part of
dominionist propaganda yet.

The bottom line is I don't care how bad the
bible sounds to me.
I Believe the word of God above all else and
that is the only plumbline I need to decide
what is right or wrong not how I feel about it.

[hillbilly (hillbilly)]

Elijah,

I agree. When I see the term "dispensationalism" - the end times do not particularly come to mind (like Hal Lindsey, etc). Instead I see more of an outline of various times throughout history and future such as:

Innocence - Adam

Conscience - After man sinned, up to the flood

Government - After the flood, man allowed to eat meat, death penalty instituted

Promise - Abraham up to Moses and the giving of the Torah

Law - Moses to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ

Grace - The cross to the Millennial Kingdom

Millennial Kingdom - A 1000 year reign of Christ on earth centered in Jerusalem

as found at: http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/d/dispensationalism.htm

A number of Baptists teach this and I am most familiar with the following work regarding this: The Bible in Eight Ages by L.D. Forman

I see this more as a tool for studying and understanding the Bible that does not contradict God's word in teaching and preaching the Gospel.

[intheknow (intheknow)]

Hillbilly:

What you've outlined above is MODERN DISPENSATIONALISM, taken from Scofield and John Darby, and the rest of the Psuedo Cult of Clarence Larkin false teachers, that account for what it popularly taught today as Bible Prophecy.

There are only "three" dispensations, 1)Before the Law; 2) The Law 3: The Gospel Dispensation.

Blessings,

[just_curious (just_curious)]

"intheknow",
This reminds me of the discussions I had with a Calvinist who, after outlining his beliefs and discovering that I didn't agree with some of them, labeled me an "Arminian." Since I didn't know what one was, it was hard to dispute it!

So how does your definition of dispensations differ from Hillbilly's on any practical level besides being a bit more general?

[overseas (overseas)]

Q: There are only "three" dispensations, 1)Before the Law; 2) The Law 3: The Gospel Dispensation.

Salvation was always by grace by faith as Hebrews 11 shows. Therefore these dispensations may be based on a certain concept being fully revelead at that time, but grace and law coexisted in OT and they surely coexist now. I mean that unfortunately most people place themselves under the Law - type if dealing with God.

[intheknow (intheknow)]

Hi Just curious:

Because what Hillbilly has outlined is the Scofield/Clarence Larken teaching charts, that detail seven economies or they have divided the Bible into Seven Dispensations from Genesis to Revelation. By doing so, they have chopped God's Word up so terribly, that when you get to any of the Gospels in the New Testament, for example Matthew 24, whereby it talks about the return of Christ. Part of those verses would be considered "Jewish Ground" and other Scriptures would be considered "Church" ground.

Basically the Scofield/Larken, John Darby Plymouth Brethren Movement have botched up God's Word so terrible, that they care not about the Warning on the Last page of the Bible, in Revelation, about adding to or taking away from God's Word..... Because they've already ripped it apart from the very beggining.

It is complete cultlike psuedo babble from Babylon. It leaves God's people unprepared to face what lurks over the horizon. The MODERN DISPENSATIONAL system based upon systemic error that has no support from Scripture, lulls people into the deception of "False Security," thinking that they will never face persecution or tribulation here in America.

A good book to order and read would be "The Infamous Scofield," you can order it from Power of Prophecy, Texe Marrs. It's hard reading, but extremely well written. When people find out about the life of Scofield, and who funded him, and "Why," it will completely revolutionize your understanding of Scriptures.

The Bible and History go hand in hand.

Another example is Daniel 9:27. This Scripture is wrenched from it's context, and made into a pretext to subvert false doctrine. Interestingly enough if you were to have a John Hagee Study Bible handy, in the side note of companion verse to Daniel 9:27 it tells it right and refers to the passage in Matthew, whereby it says, "This is the blood of the New Covenant, drink this in remebrance of me." However, in Hagee's study Bible you flip the page and there you have outlined the whole Clarence Larken 7 year tribulation MODERN DISPENSATIONAL teaching chart, that is so totally unscriptural, twisted, and a distorted view of the Holy Scriptures.

The Dispensationalist would make our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, of Danial 9:27 into an antichrist.

The whole system of MODERN DISPENSATIONALISM, and all of these noxious poisonous weeds, is crumbling as I write this, because believers are waking up to the lies that have been sown from pulpits throughout Christendom, and they are coming into understanding. I hope this helps, let me know if you would like for me to try and explain further.

Also, I am not Calvinist, Arminian, I just study the Bible and believe what it says, and do the best I can to be like a Berean and search the Scriptures Daily to see if these things be so.

Blessings, in Christ Jesus Our Lord & Saviour!

p.s. Check out Power of Prophecy, you will learn a lot! Disregard for the time the heat that the MODERN DISPENSATIONALIST are giving Texe and venture out of the boat to search for Truth on your own. Actually, when you break away from the cherished "pet doctrines" and "traditions of men," GOD REALLY STARTS OPENING UP YOUR MIND TO UNDERSTANDING! You will actually grow faster, when you seek out the Truth, no matter what the cost, and break completely away from the traditions and doctrines of devils by and through man!

Blessings to you in your studies and pursuit and knowledge of the Truth!

(Message edited by intheknow on March 12, 2005)

[intheknow (intheknow)]

Oversees:

Very good points, that few seem to understand or recognize. That being, Grace & Law were in the Old Testament, & Grace and Law are in the New Testament.

Good points!

Blessings in Christ Jesus, Our Lord!

[just_curious (just_curious)]

<font color="0000ff">Also, I am not Calvinist, Arminian, I just study the Bible and believe what it says, and do the best I can to be like a Berean and search the Scriptures Daily to see if these things be so.</font>

Amen! It is somewhat amusing yet disconcerting to me how often a simple statement or question on theology turns into a discussion or defense of a "system" of belief. I didn't know my beliefs had labels or fell into systems other than "biblical" until other people applied them to me.

[intheknow (intheknow)]

Just Curious:

Just saw your note, and wanted to briefly respond.... you have to understand something, with every denomination, no matter who it is, they have all got some cherished "pet doctrine" to defend! Take for example the Assemblies of God, if they even deviate the slightest, from the Scofield Dispensational viewpoint, and don't teach that 7 year tribulation, rapture doctrine, rebuilt temple garbage that is a patchwork of Scriptures wrenched from their context, they will be booted out of their denomination, threatened of not being able to have a church anywhere, and all sorts of things! What they have done, is they have sacrified the Truth of God's Word, for friendship with the world and/or favors from the State. Usually when denominations like this unite on questions of Scriptures such as these, they always give the excuse that it's "Better for Evangelism!" ???? So they say??? Southern Baptists are in bondage to the same "pet doctrines." They all have "pet doctrine" to defend, and they all are full of psycho Babylonian babble.

I once heard a Modern Dispensationalist teach the whole entire Bible in one night according to this viewpoint and went through the 7 different economies, whereby "they say" that God deals with man differently under each. The study was ultimately a discussion on Heaven, and he went through the whole Bible to "teach" ??? us his MODERN DISPENSATIONAL Scofield/Larken system. When he got to the part about the so called "Rapture" of the Church at Scofield's footnote Rev.4:1, because after all, the "Church" isn't mentioned after Rev. 4:1... he said, "And when the rapture happens, I believe your spirit is going to come out of your body and your spirit will be on the outside of your body." I sat there bewildered and amazed thinking, "Where are Scriptures to support this new theory?"

Anyway, it's Babylonian Babel and check out Power of Prophecy, you can learn a whole lot. And when anyone tries to give you these labels, just tell them you are working out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and you just believe what the Bible says! Line upon line, precept upon precept.

Here's our new type! Bible Believers, EVERY SINGLE WORD OUT OF GOD'S MOUTH! KJV

Blessings to you, and have a nice day in Christ Jesus, Our Lord!

[just_curious (just_curious)]

"in the know"
Just took a glance at this "Power of Prophecy" you keep referring to. So what exactly are you "in the know" about besides a lot of conspiracy theories? What is an "end-times ministry"? What is a "prophetic ministry"?

[intheknow (intheknow)]

Just Curious:

I only wanted you to go there, to see about ordering the book, the Infamous Scofield. All of those things mentioned, certainly are happening and developing before our eyes. However, right now at this moment I am venturing into another Sabbatical, as a person can only take so much and I am truly "burned out" on all of the Deception about Bible Prophecy.

An end-time ministry would be someone who blows the whistle, or sounds the alarm, you know like the Watchmen on the Walls of Zion! The Prophetic Ministry as the place where I would be called, is much different than you would see today in those of the prophetic circles that need titles and accolades of men, and are for the most part, pillow profits. If someone is truly Gifted to stand in the Office of a Prophet, they will not be the most popular individuals, and when you take a stand for truth, you will be evil spoken of. It can truly be a very lonely place and walk. You can lose friends, family, and basically you are "without" the camp, bearing His (Jesus) Reproach. It is a very difficult place, walk, and life, and the amount of Discipline that God requires when He puts you through the Wilderness to kill EVERYTHING in you, can be quite horrendous. In the Wilderness, it's you, the Holy Spirit for Sanctification and Consecration accompanied by the Word of God which entails EATING THE BOOK, and satan the devil. Basically, you go through the fiery test of submission, in learning how to submit to the Father's Will, just as Jesus did in those 30 years that very little is recorded about His life.

Hope this helps, and hope you can order the book on Scofield, as it is an amazing eye opener.

Blessings to you, In Christ Jesus!

[just_curious (just_curious)]

"intheknow"

Are YOU Texe Marrs?

[intheknow (intheknow)]

Just curious,

No, I would not be Texe Marrs. (That's funny!) I have got some wits about me, just a little bit, but nothing like his computer mind, for real! I could in no way keep up with him in research, etc.

I try to stay very closely in line with the Word of God, and not deviate from this course. While Church History is very important, as Prophecy revealing the past, reveals the future.

I am just a Servant of Jesus Christ, trying to be faithful and do the best that I can with what God has placed before me, and occupy until He comes and work out my own salvation with fear and trembling.

Probably a lot like yourself, and very many others who are searching for Truth and trying to hold fast!

[pilgrim (pilgrim)]

Read Mattew 24 the whole chapter and then read verses 21 and verses 29 to 31. It looks like we are going to go through the tribulation before Jesus Christ returns i.e. before the rapture of his church.

1 Corinthians 15:52 says that we shall be changed at the last trumpet, it looks like the last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in the book of revelation.

2 Thesalonians 2:3-4 says that Jesus will not come back untill the antichrist is revealed. I believe that we are going to go through the tribulation before the Jesus Christ returns so we should be prepare.

Read also revelation 13:16-18

Look at the following websites to see pictures of Microchips implans/ RFID's, Veri chips and Veri pay.

www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo.htm (http://www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo.htm)

www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo2.html (http://www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo2.html)


Signs before the end and the second coming of Jesus Christ

Please read the following verses from your own bible because I have not written the bible verses but I have written my own little comentary about the verses

Rev. 16:15 Jesus said, behold, I came as a theif.(Please note that this verse was written in revelation after the antichrist is revealed Rev. 13:16-18 and Rev. 14:8-12 the saints were going through the tribulation)

1 Thes. 4:16-18 We will meet the Lord in the air (I think that Jesus will come this way because they are going to be many false Christs in the earth and God wanted to be sure that we are not tricked into following a false christ.) Read also Acts 1:11.



2 Thes. 2:3-4 A falling away (apostacy) will come first and the anticrist will be revealed before Jesus comes back. The son of perdition (antichrist) will sit in the temple in jerusalen and proclaim himself to be God. Read also Mark 13:14.

Mattew 24:5; Mark 13:5-6 and Luke 21:8 For many shall come on Jesus's name saying, I am Chirst; and shall deceive many.(One example of this is the manifest sons of God latter rain heresy). Read also Mattew 24:23-27; Mark 13:21-23

Some of the False Christs

The following websites explain the manifest son's of God (Manchild) latter rain heresy and the conection to the heresy of the Joel's army

www.thechristianexpositor.org/page44.html (http://www.thechristianexpositor.org/page44.html)

www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html (http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html)
Look at the false profesy about the birth of the Manchild (the Manchild is a false Christ)



Mathew 24:21-22 For then shall be a great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.no.nor ever shall be. the bilble also said in verse 22 that if the days of the tribulation were not shortened no flesh would be saved and that for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Read also Mark 13:19-20 and Luke 21:12-19.

Read the following verses that shows that we are going to be well into the tribulation before the second coming of Christ

Mattew 24:29-31 and 36 ( No one knows the day and the hour of Jesus return but we know that is going to be apostacy, great tribulation and the son of perdition will be revealed before it happens.) Read also Mark 13:24-27 and Luke 21:27.

I feel worry and sad when I think that many of the people who believe in the unbiblical doctrine of the pretribulation rapture might feel desperate and confuse when the tribulation starts and they might end up been deceived into accepting the false Christs, the anticrist and even the mark of the beast. We need to open our bibles and test with the scriptures everything that is taught to us.