TowerBabelNoahs Floodetc

[leon (leon)]

If we assume the flood was 2307 BC and the Tower of Babel (Bab-Ilu or Gate Of God was the nation Babylon,rendered BabEl in Hebrew as El is the Hebrew word for God) was in Pelegs days, then that makes about 2200 B.C. for the very start of the languages.Plus it would take easily 1000 years for population to grow in various lands especially to develop civilizations.Even then it wouldnt be likely.

The city of Babylon however came LONG after the Sumerians (with their own language) were in the land though the 2200 Biblical date is about right.Egyptian pre-dynastic period started around 3300 B.C. where there was already a developed civilization with its own language.The dynastic civilization started around 2900 BC according to the conventional chronology.

Im getting the idea the the entire world in Biblical terms was the world of the early Adamites,and perhaps the other peoples werent of the same stock.Much like Gods plan to reveal his oracles to a small sliver of land in SouthWest Asia to the "least of the nations" (Abrahams tribe), I think the Flood and Table Of Nations was a local issue.

The only way to even begin to make it worldwide would be to use Septuagint dates that push the Tower of Babel back about 500 years and flood back about 800 years.You would also have to assume massive chronological problems as the Sumerians wrote as early as 3500 BC and archaeology seems to show them in Mesopotamia as far back as roughly 10,000 BC.

Hard to justify a worldwide flood and beginning of languages in 2000 BC.

Who was the pharoah of the opression during the Exodus? Anwar Sadat?

[leon (leon)]

Interesting online book that makes an effort,a heck of an effort to cram history into 4200 years.

http://cgca.net/coglinks/wcglit/hoehcompendium/hhc1toc.htm

[david_munson (david_munson)]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
www.carm.org (http://www.carm.org)

The flood was world wide.there is evidence in the geological structure.A certain layer that is prevelant throughout the world.

dave
</font>}

[leon (leon)]

Your link just goes to the main site not the relavent area.Anyway,Im familar with the layer (that surely that site mentions , I forget the exact name of the deposition period though it is ANCIENT) in particular extends back WAY before humans or anything like them were on the scene.That layer is WAY below any layer that has people and most modern animals.Even credible Creationist's who hold degrees in geology dont suggest that layer is from Noahs flood especially since most hold to the M.T..

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c014.html

The Bible clearly states that Nimrod founded BabEl (or Bab-Ilu the actual name the "Babylonians" called it being Gate Of God)in the land of Shinar (which many academics think is Sumer , infact Ive seen secular and top historians while commenting on the Biblical record defend the Bible by pointing out that the Sumerians WERE mentioned in Genesis)and the Sumerians were there since around 3200 BC (in conventional chronology) and Babylon according to conventional chronology was 2200 BC.

David Rohl came up with an interesting theory in his controversial book (controversial to mainstream historians,especially or his belief in a flood though even he felt it was local) "Legend: The Genesis of Civilization" that the word in Genesis chapter 11 for "Babel" (Babylon)was a scribal error.He noted that the Sumerian (keep in mind that Sumerian was the Latin of Babylonians and other Akkadian speaking Semites in the region, and was used for certain purposes long after the Sumerians were conquered)name for both Babylon and a MUCH older city Eridu was Nun.ki and figured a Hebrew scribe reading the Bible text written partly in Sumerian (VERY contriversal to mainstream historians who feel the Bibles text goes back no further than 900 BC and thus couldnt in any way, shape, or form have such antiquity) confused both cities mainly because of the same Sumerian name but also because the Hebrew word for confuse was "Balil" and the Bibles text (perhaps Moses added a comment that confused the issue)says babylon was anmed after the hebrew word for confusion which CLEARLR it was not.Some Christans have defended the Bible by saying the Tower wasnt a literal Tower.Rohl ,in his book, shows archaeology that leads him to think it was an actual tower.

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;cof=BGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BT%3A%23000000%3BLC%3A%2300 00CC%3BVLC%3A%230000CC%3BALC%3A%230000CC%3BGALT%3A %23008000%3BGFNT%3A%23000000%3BGIMP%3A%23000000%3B DIV%3A%230000CC%3BLBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=david+rohl +eridu (http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;cof=BGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BT%3A%23000000%3BLC%3A%2300 00CC%3BVLC%3A%230000CC%3BALC%3A%230000CC%3BGALT%3A %23008000%3BGFNT%3A%23000000%3BGIMP%3A%23000000%3B DIV%3A%230000CC%3BLBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=david+rohl +eridu)

I should point out that the Suptuagint extends history (Babel event)back to 2550 BC and puts the Flood around 3000 BC.

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;cof=BGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BT%3A%23000000%3BLC%3A%2300 00CC%3BVLC%3A%230000CC%3BALC%3A%230000CC%3BGALT%3A %23008000%3BGFNT%3A%23000000%3BGIMP%3A%23000000%3B DIV%3A%230000CC%3BLBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=septuagint +dates+flood+babel+M.T (http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;cof=BGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3BT%3A%23000000%3BLC%3A%2300 00CC%3BVLC%3A%230000CC%3BALC%3A%230000CC%3BGALT%3A %23008000%3BGFNT%3A%23000000%3BGIMP%3A%23000000%3B DIV%3A%230000CC%3BLBGC%3A%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=septuagint +dates+flood+babel+M.T).

AnwsersinGenesis remarks on this issue,and though I HOPE the Septuagints dates are correct,they lean toward the M.T. which is amazing considering their belief in a worldwide flood.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v12/i1/chronology.asp

Here is an old book that makes on major effort to squeeze history into the 2200 M.T. date.

http://cgca.net/coglinks/wcglit/hoehcompendium/hhc1ch3.htm

Here is an interesting discussion (creationists get hammered badly on this site , because unlike the Carm site, the debaters must present BOTH sites of every argument and document everything exaustively)mainly because one of the few creationists left defended the Bibles record using Septuagint dates and presents links to Lambert Dolphins site using the Setterfield work.

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&amp;f=1&amp;t=12&amp;m=1

[leon (leon)]

I now skimmed over the EVC thread again and infact I think the links might be in another thread about the Septuagint.They were mentioned in this thread but the links were from another I think.

Check out the Exodus and Finklestein threads around page 7 for Setterfield links.Found a thread that links,though it isnt due to the Septuagint issue.See links by poster named Judge.

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&amp;f=1&amp;t=57&amp;m=1

Anyway,Id love it if the Carm site would spend time on more relavant matters like ones discussed on EVC.Perhaps maybe it shouldnt at second thought now that they are so fast and loose on issues to the point that they say a worldwide layer in the geologic strata is found.Christians get hammered like a rusty old nail when they present such nonsense.I enjoy listening to Carl Baugh and Kent Hovind mind you, but crude disproven data being presented as a conclusion only hurts Christianity.Just go the the Worldwide flood discussion on the EVC Forums and notice the total complete floor mopping that takes place.

I still hold to a slim possibility of a worlwide flood , but the evidence just isnt there.And I have trouble seeing what has been overlooked too.Infact, the only hope worldwide flood believers have is that most prime locations with huge chunks of the geologic column (like that place around Minnesota and Dakotas)were deposited in several local floods AFTER Noahs flood.There is evidence it seems of animals burrowing seperately in each layer which would prove it was deposited over long periods of time.Not just one flood.The only other hope is that many of the prime geologic column sites around the world were covered in ice during Noahs flood and thus Creationists can argue that it wouldnt have been effected by Noahs Flood.

I was watching a DVD presented by AnwsersInGenesis called "The Genesis Debate" and though the Creationist did quite well, the Evolutionist debater showed quotes from prominent Geologists that are frequesnt AnwsersInGenesis contributors that clearly admitted the evidence isnt there for a worldwide flood though their faith forces them to believe in such a thing.

[leon (leon)]

O.K.

Wanted to polish up a few facts before I went out on a limb.I have many encyclopedias like the Anchor Bible set, the updates International Stnadard Bible Encyclopedia, plus about 20 others. I also have almost every every Ancient Near East encyclopedia and dictionary type of book.I DIDNT refer to any of them.Instead I just grabbed the first basic standard 26 volume general encyclopedia I found.By random I grabbed the 1985 Funk and Wagnalls and started quoting and paraphrasing.I also brabbed the lesser of the outstanding David Rohl's 2 history books.Both are nice by any standard mind you, but I didnt grab anything fancy just to show that there is data out there that is easy to find to prove the Bible.

Here is what I really think about Babel.I dont claim to have all the anwsers but if this doesnt work then at least we know God has all the anwsers even if they are difficult for mere man to find.Lucky that I think we serve a God that is REAL because this Babel issue just KILLS us.I must thank David Rohl for a very very helpful solution to Nimrods most elusive town.

The Bible in Genesis Chapter 10 says Cush was the father of Nimrod and mentions Babel, Erech , plus 2 other towns in the land of Shinar as the founding of his empire.Ill just go out on a limb and try and explain the first 2.Ill quote and paraphraise from Rohls smaller book "From Eden To Exile: The Epic History Of The People Of The Bible" which is a smaller book that removes many of the more controversial conclusions from his larger "Legend:The Genesis Of Civilization".

First ,some background on Sumerian history. E.A. Speiser and Samuel Noah Kramer say that Shinar and Summer are the same place.As does Zechariah Sitchin.Nobody knows Sumerian history and the language better than these 3 though Sitchin doesnt have the top notch academic credits the other 2 have. (In Collins book , "From The Ashes Of Angels:The forgotten legacy of a fallen race" the definition of Shinar reached was "land of the watchers" and the first 50 or so pages of that book was fantastic)
-----------------------------
8And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

9He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

10And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
----------------------------

First the quote from Rohls book.I dont agree with all of his conclusions as he ,though placing events long before fundamentalists M.T. onlyist's, is far too soon for the REAL events. Sumerians tended to vaguely remember the events that happened before writing was invented post Babel (NOT Babylon lol).He at least showed us the most important discovery ever in the field IMO.

Quoting from aound page 65-70

"The great platform temple,built in the place the Bible calls Babel, was not constructed in the holy precinct of Babylon but rather on the holy island of Eridu." (I removed some words to edit for space,late Rohl adds..)

He shows that both ancient Eridu (one of the worlds oldest cities,see my goggle links above) and the later Babylon were BOTH called in Sumerian "Nun.ki" or The Mighty Palace.

"The scribes of the Old Babylonian period (EDIT.around 1750-1500 BCE after Hammurabi established his empire,not Rohls quote)were highly educated men who spoke and read at least 2 languages-Akkadian and Sumerian.It was their regular practice to write certain names and words in Sumerian in what were otherwise predominantly Akkadian texts.This was rather like educated monks and state officials mixing both English and Latin during the British medieval age (or barristers in a court of law today for that matter).So,when a scholar reads in Old Babylonian tablet written in Akkadian cuneiform,he will come across a number of Sumerian logograms which he must transcribe into Akkadian before translating into English....Many places retained their ancient Sumerian nams as well as their contempory Akkadian names.Thus the sacred precinct of the city of babylon-Bab-Ilu in Akkadian-was also identified by its Sumerian name NUN.KI."

Rohl goes on to talk about how the Hebrew scribes confusing the ancient text that in (he doesnt seem to credit the "ancient text" as being the Bible but later Sumerian legends)mentioning NUN.KI as being the same name as Babylon especially considering the amazing towers there in much later times (even Herodotus noticed the amazing towers)and the Hebrew word balil (to confuse) sounding so similar.He also talks about archaeological details about towers in Eridu.

But,trust me,the evidence piles up for the Tower Of Babel incident being a real event.Ill now move to the Funk and Wagnalls Encyclopedias but first a quote of ancient Sumerian myths (that were based on real Sumerian kings hundreds of years after the actual Biblical events, and ancient Biblical events were borrowed by the Sumerians at that time based on perveted memories).

Here is the ancient Sumerian legend that made one of their earliest kings,Enmerkar, a legend.

Enmerkar And The Lord Of Aratta Epic-

"Let the People of Aratta artfully fashion gold and silver.....build me a great temple,set up for me a great shrine of the gods..fashion for me Abzu like a holy highland.Purify for me Eridu like a mountain.........Then Enki,lord of abundance,whose commands are trustworthy,the lord of wisdom who understands the land,the leader of the gods endowed with wisdom,the lord of Eridu,changed the speech in their mouths,bringing contention into the speeh of man which until then had been one" (Rohl quotes Ashmolean Museum fragment of Enmenkar And The Lord Of Aratta)

Genesis 11
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

4And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

MUCH later texts mention Babylon (which Rohl points out was clearly named after Eridu as Nun.Ki)by saying such (clearly this further confused Hebrew scribes who couldnt handle Gods ancient texts)

V"'Now, O lord, thou who hast caused our deliverance,
What shall be our homage to thee?
Let us build a shrine ....'
Brightly glowed his features, like the day:
'Like that of lofty Babylon, whose building you have requested,
Let its brickwork be fashioned. You shall name it "The Sanctuary"'
For one whole year they molded the bricks.
When the second year arrived,
They raised high the shrine equaling a great height.
Having built a stage-tower a great height,
They set up in it an abode for Marduk, Enlil, and Ea.
"This is Babylon, the place that is your home' ...'" (again,this last quote was MUCH later,and Ill now quote some history from the Encyclopedia , some is paraphrased)

(I need to take a break,will edit in much more later)

[leon (leon)]

Im will need to come back in a few hours so Ill just cut to the chase for the SECOND city Nimrod founded,after "Babylon" that being Erech.

------------------------
GENESIS Chapter 10

8And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

9He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

10And THE BEGINNING of his kingdom was Babel, and ERECH, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
------------------

Here we have the man who was clearly pegged by the Bible as being alive when languages started.We already have examined the first city, but what about the second? What about Erech?

The radical minimalists say the Bible is from perhaps 500 BCE.The "moderates" say maybe some kernals of truth from maybe 700-900 BCE brought us some early Bible text.The great "defenders" of the Bible in universitys called "maximalists" say that maybe there is a bit more of historical truth (with their "God mythology" edited into decent post 1000 BCE historical records)to the Bible back to maybe 1000 or slightly before.

ALL debate centers around whether the Bible and its histories (such as the table of nations in the first 12 chapters)were from around 400 BCE OR (the big alternative) if the truths go back as far as 1200 BCE , with most scholars falling inbetween.

LETS SEE HOW FAR BACK THE BIBLES ACCURACY GOES

Funk And Wagnalls 1985 Encyclopedia

Entry:"Archaeology"

".......German discoveries at Uruk or Erech (now warka), since 1928 have discovered the skills of architects and artisans of about 3500 B.C. , as WELL AS THE EARLIEST WRITING KNOWN..." (emphasis me)

3500 BC!

(I think it wasnt that far back but heck,Ill take the ultra high chronology)

[kingdavid (kingdavid)]

I know this is a little off the subject, but I wanted to comment on something that David Munson said about the deep layer that is universally found around the globe.....i believe that would be called the "iridiam" layer. This is a very rare mineral that is found in the asteroid belt. It is not indigenous to our planet. Is this what you are referring to D.M.?

[leon (leon)]

Before I show which historical Sumerian kings would later become famous and legendary through ancient Biblical events from Genesis 6-11 , I will try and give a quick summary of mainstream archaeology that I simply snatched from the Funk and Wagnalls Encyclopedias.

Arabia-

4000 Bc pottery of Pre-Sumerian Ubaid (Early Mesopotamians before the Sumerians came down from the Zagros Mountains which Rohl and many Christians consider as clearly the location of the garden of Eden plus they seem to figure it as the start of all peoples even the Indo-Europeans who would later go to India) type.A gap in Arabia of some 3000 years till next known era.One group of Arabian Semites (I simply repeating elite archaeology which considers Hamo-Semitic peoples to have come from Africa not Eden)arrives in Mesopotamia in 3500 BC and becomes the Assyro-Babylonians.These Akkadians would arrive at roughly the same time (even before) as Sumerians and later Sargon of Akkad around 2300 would conquer the Sumerians.Another group of Arabian Semites would arrive along the Eastern shores of the Mediterranean in 2500 and become the Amorites and Canaanites.Amorites would conquer the Sumerian/Akkadian empire in 2000 BC then around 1750 BC get defeated by Hammurabi.

Later Southern Arabia would from 1200-650BC be ruled by Minaeans then slowly the Sabaeans would from 930-115BC take over and supplant the Mineans.It wasnt till these times that any inscriptions were found.

Sumerian-

About 4000 BC a people known as Ubadians established settlements in the region later known as Sumeria.There settlements gradually developed into what would later be the sites of chief Sumerian cities-Adab, Eridu, Isin, Kish, Kullab, Lagash, larsa, Nippur and Ur.In 3500 Bc, Semites would arrive and 3200 the Sumerians (the first ever writing was described as being Sumerian in Eridu and seperate spots in the encyclopedias either said 3200 or 3500 BC).

One other section in the encyclopedia also said that Sumerian was the first ever writting and it was just slightly before 3000 Bc and Egyptian followed 100 years later while proto-Elamite (ancient Iranains)came around the same time though it couldnt be read.Its interesting that even then they couldnt seem to get Egypts chronology nailed down.This encyclopedia like most said 3100 BC was the start of Egyptian dynastic civilization and writting started about the same time Narmer/Menes united the 2 lands.Most today still hold this date , and like the funk and Wagnalls 1985, put the Pre-Dynastic civilization 300 years before though without writing.Encyclopedia Britanica in 1991 started using the shorter 2925BC date for the unification of the 2 lands and language records in Egypt.

The Semites and Sumerians would intermarry and by 2800 BC , the first Sumerian ruler of historical records named Etana the King of Kish (named after Cush,Nimrods dad?) was described in a document written centuries later as "the man who stabilized the lands".Shortly after his reign ended, a king named Meskiaggasher founded a rival dynasty at Erech, far to the south of Kish.Meskiaggasher won control of the region extending from the Mediterranean to the Zagros Mountains and was succeeded by his son Enmerkar.

NOTICE THAT NAME?

PAY ATTENTION!

(all of this is based on exactly what the fantastic Funk and Wagnall 1985 Encyclopedia says as straight unabashed history,these are all pretty much quotes from the Sumerian entry)

Enmerkar attacked Aratta far to the north east of Mesopotmia.Enmerkar was suceeded by Lugalbanda, one of his military leaders.The exploits an conquests of Enmerkar and Lugalbanda form the subject of a cycle of epic tales constituting the most important source of information on early Sumerian history.

After Lugalbanda's reign in circa 2700 Bc, Enmebaragesi a king of the Etna dynasty of Kish,became leading ruler of Sumer.His outstanding achievments included a win over Elam and construction at Nippur of the Temple Of Enlil, the elading Sumerian God.It gradually became the spiritual center.Enmebaragesi's son Agga, last ruler of Agga dynasty was defeated by Mesanepada, King of Ur in 2670 BC , who founded the so called 1st Dynasty of Ur and made it capital of Sumer.

PAY ATTENTION (this has a purpose)

Soon after the death of Mesanepada, the city ofErech achieved a position of political prominence under Gilgamesh about 2650 Bc whose deeds are celebrated in stories and legends.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/flood/introduction.asp

Assyria-

Semites who arrived in 3500 Bc.Land was west of the Zagros mountains,south of the Armenian Massif,north was the country first know as Sumer.Then Sumer would later be known as "Sumer and Akkad" after Sargon captured it in 2300 BC.Then later Babylonia once Amorites captured it in 2000 BC.Southern land (called Sumer for 1000 years then "Sumer and Akkad" from 2350-2000)Babylonia fought off Elamites to east
and Amorites to west and eventually Hammurabi around 1750 BC established Old Babylonian empire.Northern Semites that were Akkadians became Assyrians.

Babylon was first mentioned in texts around 2200 BC refering to a magnificent temple then it would nearly 200 years later become a spiritual center of southern Akkadian empire.

LANGUAGE DISCOVERIES

In 3000-3500 BC (conventional chronology) at Erech, the oldest writing ever was found.

In the archives at Nippur , many texts from 2100 Bc were found.

In Syria (not to be confused with Assyria) the most amazing (these are becoming MY words not the Encyclopedia)linguistic iscovery ever was found.ENDLESS archives at Ebla written in a Semitic language closest ever to Hebrew (see link for the mess it has sadly become) using Sumerian cuneiform illuminate Syrian history from 2500-2200 BC.Elite academics were amazed at first but politics has ruined everything.Mainstream history books till say Hebrew came from Ugaritic/Canaanite but Ebla achives seemed even closer.

http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/apologetics/AP0504W3.htm


Anyway,see my links and notice how Biblical historical events were later taken by Sumerians and superimposed onto their Kings as they maintained a memory of the history.The flood happened about 2307 BC according to the MT. and Babel happened no sooner than 2201 BC in Pelegs days.Septuagint puts Babel back to 2550 BC.Flood back around 3000 BC.Pre dynastic Egyptian civilization and Pre Erech (Sumerian inscriptions) events were the time between Flood and Tower of Babel.The events happened before detailed records could be kept.500 or so years later Sumerians remembered the events and their Kings absorbed the legends either in their lives or most likely later.BOTTOM LINE Nimrod came LONG before Enemkar and Noah long before Gilgamesh.Also Babylon was not the site of the Tower.

Clifford Wilsons books on Ebla ere good for their time but the data has sadly stopped.Another P HD scholar D.J. Wiseman,however has established a HUGE degree of Christians worldwide who know the truth about the Bibles message being passed down. His view was that it was in Akkadian but clearly it destroys the documentary hypothesis of academics.

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;cof=BGC:%23FFFFFF%3BT:%23000000%3BLC:%230000CC%3 BVLC:%230000CC%3BALC:%230000CC%3BGALT:%23008000%3B GFNT:%23000000%3BGIMP:%23000000%3BDIV:%230000CC%3B LBGC:%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=tablet+theory+genesis+authorsh ip&amp;spell=1 (http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;cof=BGC:%23FFFFFF%3BT:%23000000%3BLC:%230000CC%3 BVLC:%230000CC%3BALC:%230000CC%3BGALT:%23008000%3B GFNT:%23000000%3BGIMP:%23000000%3BDIV:%230000CC%3B LBGC:%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=tablet+theory+genesis+authorsh ip&amp;spell=1)

Links that compare the Septuagint dates.Notice that the Dead Sea Scrolls, Septunagint, and Samaritan Torah all agree on a 2550 BC date (if not further) for the Tower of Babel.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2503

http://www.ldolphin.org/barrychron.html

(this google link is to help find more links from EVC forums,I just cant find the page)

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;cof=BGC:%23FFFFFF%3BT:%23000000%3BLC:%230000CC%3 BVLC:%230000CC%3BALC:%230000CC%3BGALT:%23008000%3B GFNT:%23000000%3BGIMP:%23000000%3BDIV:%230000CC%3B LBGC:%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=evc+forum+septuagint+dates+flo od+links&amp;spell=1 (http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;cof=BGC:%23FFFFFF%3BT:%23000000%3BLC:%230000CC%3 BVLC:%230000CC%3BALC:%230000CC%3BGALT:%23008000%3B GFNT:%23000000%3BGIMP:%23000000%3BDIV:%230000CC%3B LBGC:%23FFFFFF%3B&amp;q=evc+forum+septuagint+dates+flo od+links&amp;spell=1)

Also remember Egyptian and Mesopotamian chronology has been over extended

http://www.knowledge.co.uk/velikovsky/
http://www.centuries.co.uk/
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/index.html
http://www.velikovskian.com/

(Message edited by Leon on October 25, 2005)

[leon (leon)]

One last link.

A New York Times Article.

http://64.233.187.104/custom?q=cache:hbfQLUvK4OUJ:www.english.uga.edu/~hypertxt/040699sci-early-writing.html+oldest+writing+sumerian+uruk+facts&amp;hl =en&amp;ie=UTF-8 (http://64.233.187.104/custom?q=cache:hbfQLUvK4OUJ:www.english.uga.edu/~hypertxt/040699sci-early-writing.html+oldest+writing+sumerian+uruk+facts&amp;hl =en&amp;ie=UTF-8)

http://www.english.uga.edu/~hypertxt/040699sci-early-writing.html

Uruk/Ereck