Caananite Questions

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">So Jehovah commands the people of Israel to kill everyone in the land, men , women and children?
Could someone provide me with the scriptural reference for this, Deutoronomy or Joshua?

But some of these tribes fake out the children of Israel by tricking them into a treaty by making them think they came from afar so the Israelites let some of them live, is this correct?

It seems to me that skeptics certainly cite these events for unbelief or skepticism.

How do you answer the question of why God commanded little children and women to be murdered and has Israel followed through how different would the world look today?
in HIS grip, Stabi</font>

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">Dont everybody be shy all at once. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
in HIS grip, Stabi</font>

[turtle (turtle)]

Well Stabi, I am not going to really tackle all of your question. And i am not going to give you scripture where you asked for it. I am going to start in Gensis 15

Gen 15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Prophecy what would happen in the land and why?

Now why would God destory woman and children. Woman are just as responsible as the men on who they worship. They are just as guilty. God knows the hearts of even children. When God wipes out a whole nation He wipes everyone out even children. No one to remember the idolatary in the land or the evil ways. Sins is completely wiped out. I realize children are not accountable til a certain age according to Jewish tradion. Parents sins follow children through out the old testament.

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">But they didnt wipe them ALL out and our pastor was teaching one day and he said if they had wiped them all out that Israel would not be surrounded by Arab enemies and Palestinians right now, he referred to those to be wiped out as decendants of Ishmael, but I thought their were other middle easterners who predate Ishmael.

And had Ishmaels decendants be wiped out then would Gods promise to Abraham concerning Ishmaels decendants be a lie?
in HIS grip, Stabi</font>

[turtle (turtle)]

Okay from my understanding Ishmaelites intermarried with other tribes. There were other people besides the descendants of Abraham. Abraham had three branches from three woman. Look at chapter 25. These are offspring of abraham. Need to read the intire chapter to find out Ishmael descendants. This is the beginning of the line. But there were also egyptians, amorites, Noah sons descendants and many more that live in the world at that time. In the bible it really only talks about abraham family and God's enemies but they do mention other tribes that were offspring of Abraham and Issac. You would almost have to go back to Noah to realize his children family tree and also the the blessing he gave he of his children or curse. Then follow these people in the bible.

Abraham children where often friends with each other. Like esau offspring are mentioned during the trip through the wilderness. Midian descendant of abraham second wife is who moses goes and lives with for awhile in the wilderness. It gets quite interesting.

[turtle (turtle)]

And if you have a good study bible you can look up each tribe. Or you can use a bible dictionary or concordance to do leg work. On what tribe is who.

[turtle (turtle)]

You can spend hours doing this type of research on who is who. But i seldom do it except when I am researching a particualr passage of scripture.

[godchild (godchild)]

stabidak, (This is from one of Larry Richards books):
Numbers 31
How can the genocide of the Midianites and God's brutal command to totally wipe out the people of Canaan be justified morally?
It is important to understand the cultural background when we consider the conquest of Canaan and the destruction of the Midianites. The national character of the Midianites is displayed in the Midianite strategy, developed by Balaam, of attempting to corrupt Israel morally and spiritually (Num.25). The fertility religions of the area emphasized both sex and violence. Ritual prostitution and sexual orgies were part of religious celebrations that attempted to stimulate the gods and godesses to their own sexual acts, which were thought to guarantee the fertility of the land and domesticated animals. On the one hand, the utterly debased morals and religion of the people of the region meritied divine judgment; on the other hand, it threateded the continued purity of God's people once they settled in the land. The commands to totally wipe out the inhabitants of the land have to be understood as a judicial sentence, imposed by God to be executed by his people.
What is perhaps most stunning in this regard is a statement made to Abraham and reported in Genesis 15. There God informed Abraham that his descendants would spend some four hundred years in Egypt, in part to delay that judgment that must in time be imposed. Why? Because "the sin of the Amorites (representatives of all the peoples of Canaan) has not yet reached its full measure" (Gen. 15:16). The wonder is not that God ordered the ancient Israelites to wipe out the corrupt peoples of Canaan, but that God waited so patiently until the sins of those peoples reached full measure and literally demanded punishment.
Then Deuteronomy 7:2

[godchild (godchild)]

Deut. 7:2 How could a good God possibly order Israel to destroy totally the people living in Canaan?
This question comes up whenever such a command is found in the Old Testament. On one hand, the call to exterminate the Canaanites was a judicial sentence pronounced by God, in view of the debased moral and religious practices of those peoples. The degraded nature of these practices has been confirmed in many archaeological finds.
This chapter of Deuteronomy adds another reason for the command to destroy the Canaanites. God, through Moses, warned, "They will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord's anger will burn against you" (7:4). Only by totally isolating Israel from corruption within the Promised Land could the purity of Israel's faith and worship be maintained. In fact, Israel did not obey God's command to drive out or destroy the Canaanites, and Israel was corrupted by the peoples that, in disobedience to God's command, they permitted to live in the land.

[turtle (turtle)]

"What is perhaps most stunning in this regard is a statement made to Abraham and reported in Genesis 15. There God informed Abraham that his descendants would spend some four hundred years in Egypt, in part to delay that judgment that must in time be imposed. Why? Because "the sin of the Amorites (representatives of all the peoples of Canaan) has not yet reached its full measure" (Gen. 15:16). The wonder is not that God ordered the ancient Israelites to wipe out the corrupt peoples of Canaan, but that God waited so patiently until the sins of those peoples reached full measure and literally demanded punishment."

<font color="ff0000">Already covered that point. That is interesting though seeing someone else bring that point out. I do read other source but sometimes I do not look for one to prove a point. </font>

[wyoming (wyoming)]

<font color="0000ff">How do you answer the question of why God commanded little children and women to be murdered and has Israel followed through how different would the world look today?</font>

Was God a murderer when he brought on The Flood? He wanted the Caananites wiped out for somewhat the same reason, to provide a purified land for Israel. The subsequent battles from that time up unto today are the result of that deception from the Caananites. It probably slowed down God's plans and spiritual fulfillment for the nation of Israel for thousands of years. The implications are far reaching.

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">One could say that it is the result of the Caananites deception or one could also say it is the result of Israel's disobedience in failing to adhere to Gods word to destroy them all.

Does Israel still have the right to destroy them today?
in HIS grip, Stabi</font>

[turtle (turtle)]

I will have to do some digging for scripture. But this could over lap into the thread concerning the rapture. From what I understand many Christians are waiting for the time that israel will have total control of there land again. Realize the covenant made with Abraham was an everlasting covenant. It was not like the law which would change when Christ came. He did away with the law. This covenant was forever tell the end of the earth. So do they have a right to destory moslems today. Well scripturally it says that there will always be strife between these two groups, so annilation i don't see it this verse.

And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
(Genesis 16:12)

[wyoming (wyoming)]

Stabi,

No, it's too late. Today, Israel is not the aggressor and they have a need to defend themselves because they failed to destroy the Caananites?

[ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37)]

Our Father is never wrong
The reason for the 'cleansing of the promised land was...

To destroy the offspring of the Giants
We can follow their(giants) pedegree from Genisis
They are the ones who inhabit the Land.

It all boils down to the Fallen Angels and their offspring, the great and mighty men (Geber)

God is cleansing the land for His people
Thats why children and cattle and whole towns were distroyed

And when the inhabitants of Cannan were able to talk their way out of desruction, it came back to bite the Israelies in the butt.

Check it out

Peace
c

[john_parker (john_parker)]

Hybrid men women and children even the animals became part of the experiment

Satan lucifer and his fallen cannot create but they can take what is already created and pervert it

And hybrids are an abomination to the Lord. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif


AND, also after that

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

AND it wasnt just the Canaanites that were hybrid

Jos 3:10 And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God [is] among you, and [that] he will without fail drive out from before you the [b]Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girga****es, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.

[leon (leon)]

The point was that humans are weak and simply cant avoid peer pressure.Israelites were supposed to set the best example of a shinning nation that prospers when following YHWH (so later the whole world could follow their example serving YHWH).God knew they wouldnt kill all gentile's in Palestine or even eradicate their nations.However he knew they would succumb to heathen practises (infact I think its so hard archaeologically to tell when the Israelites arrived in Palestine because they maintained so many pagan practices all throughout, I think they arrived long before "1200 BCE" that mainstream archaelogy says the nation Israel seems to have began).He allowed them to disobey him every step of the way. He even prospered them.They failed to prove to God that they would serve him and not "progress" their way right past him.Sadly the Israelites were a sorry lot who did nothing but abandon God and his promises and instead kissed up to pagans and their practices.

Just look at how all modern societys (ie Europe,etc.) have abandoned their heritage when they advance technologically. We have a "modern" world of loosers who have abandoned God.They THINK they are smart and advanced but honestly most are a bunch of arrogant fools who S-T-I-N-K much worse than the 3rd world they think they are so much better than.

There was lots of bloodshed in the ancient world. God would attempt to use even that "uncivilized" time period (as if we are any better in our "modern advanced" socialistic times when the 20th century was the most bloody ever)and their associated realities, political issues, military brutality,etc. for the good of mankind. The lesson is that we simply cant stay focused on God even with his leading a theocracy.

(Message edited by leon on December 02, 2005)

[munchkin (munchkin)]

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/judges/judges1.htm

this is a good bible online resource, and is set out in a easy to read manner, for those of us with not the best eye sight.

becca

[godchild (godchild)]

Thanks becca, I put their home page on my favorites list, for when I have extra time. The Catholic Encyclopedia online is a good source also.

[trainedobserver (trainedobserver)]

How do you answer the question of why God commanded little children and women to be murdered
AND it wasnt just the Canaanites that were hybrid

So, are you guys saying it wasn't immoral for god to have all those men, women, and children killed because they weren't really human beings?

[ba2004 (ba2004)]

My opinion is that you have to figure out what is prescriptive vs what is descriptive. That is, what is God’s law vs what is man’s law or in a historical sense, what did man do. I don’t believe God commanded anyone to kill innocent people. Rather, I believe Moses told everyone to do it to eliminate any possibility of future revenge. Trying to interpret the bible literally is probably impossible and besides, I am pretty sure the Bible has been purposely corrupted and therefore unreliable in a literal sense? Moses might have said something that wasn't true so that he would have more support for his command. After all, if God commanded it, how could anyone disobey?

[john_parker (john_parker)]

So, are you guys saying it wasn't immoral for god to have all those men, women, and children killed because they weren't really human beings?



Lets put it this way http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Would you want The Munsters (the unfriendly version) living next door?

With grandpa experimenting (on your missing daughter) in their basement?

Also, it looks like a few go away

Not all were killed

But it seems some are so dense they think everything is coming up roses and indeed see life through rose colored glasses.

Hybrids were not part of God s plan in fact they were formed to destroy it


PEACE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[rachelengland (rachelengland)]

John you've come up with a better answer than I ever could but let me give you a different side-it was the times-the place-God's reason for destroying anything that might get in the way of the birth of His Son-WHY-who really has those answers for you today- WHY does a young boy this morning sitting in his car at Chicago Midway Airport lose his life-WHY is an innocent girl abducted and killed-WHY does God allow any of this- violence-what are his reasons for war,poverty? WHY you keep asking and none of us with all our education and technology can answer for God -I'm trying to speak in simple terms because it really is that simple-ba2004 is correct the Bible has passed thru many hands-changed by men with a mission- if God killed the caananites it was all in his big plan and design.


(Message edited by rachelengland on December 09, 2005)

[john_parker (john_parker)]

Fact is,

many find it hard to believe their are those (ancient fallen) that used Earth as a lab experiment and they made murderers.

The old plan was to kill them before they murdered us but things have changed a bit

BUT

They (the murderers) think they have gotten over by murdering? but if they should succeed, I only go to a far better place waiting for me (lol)

And they?

Where do murderers of God s children go?

There is no future for them. (no life jacket)

Not even a memory of them will get past the New Heaven and Earth gate or even exist at all.


PEACE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[trainedobserver (trainedobserver)]

1. There are and never were hybrids. That is pure fantasy.

2. I don't see a difference between "would you want the Munsters living next door" and "would you want (insert ethnic group here) living next door?"

3.if God killed the caananites it was all in his big plan and design.
What a wonderful god. I guess we should all rejoice that we were not born a Canaanite during that time huh? We would be lowly "hybrids" marked for death by Yahweh in accordance to his great plan. Oh, man that is distressing to say the least. What a freaking horror show. I wouldn't buy into that if Yahweh were real.

[rachelengland (rachelengland)]

I wasn't saying it was okay trained observer that it was all part of his plan -but that's the christian belief system they may deny it but they don't question the Lord almighty- creator of heaven and earth i was posing a theory just like the next person only a theory....you can tear this all apart your full of a wealth of knowledge remember i'm someone who used to walk that walk so i have a little inside info-rachel

[trainedobserver (trainedobserver)]

I understand where you're coming from rachel, I was expressing distress over the "gods plan" mindset, which the more I realize how messed up it all is, the more distressed I feel that I once actually thought that way. Yikes.

[rachelengland (rachelengland)]

me too i still have a lot i deal with daily you have been a tremendous help to me with your points -there are few people I follow around here munchkin,you, ihavesinned who seem to have a good handle on things- I take it in and the knowledge helps me to feel confident for once in a belief system -without the guilt-take care rachel

[trainedobserver (trainedobserver)]

rachelengland,

Well I appreciate the sentiments you've expressed but I don't feel I have anything more on the ball than you do.

I have a book called “Leaving the Fold” that talks about the problems associated with leaving the church, particularly after you have been very active in it. I never finished it but it may be of help. I think realizing that you're not the only one who has gone through this change in perspective helps.

You know, one of the first things that an authoritarian system wants to do is to destroy an individuals self-confidence. It seeks to condition people to rely on the system to do their thinking for them. Don't doubt yourself or your ability to detect bull**** when you hear it again. Press on in your struggle to be a more excellent human being. Refuse to view yourself as fundamentally flawed (the sin nature) and in need of supernatural repair but rather a normal human being seeking personal excellence in thought and deed.

[rachelengland (rachelengland)]

thanks-I'll check out the book-and thanks for the encouragement.

[ba2004 (ba2004)]

I will also have a look at “Leaving the Fold”, can anyone recommend a good book that would be good for someone to read when they are an individual who refuses to acknowledge that they are a victim of any mind control?

[trainedobserver (trainedobserver)]

That was Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell. There are several with that title.

[john_parker (john_parker)]

What a wonderful god. I guess we should all rejoice that we were not born a Canaanite during that time huh? We would be lowly "hybrids" marked for death by Yahweh in accordance to his great plan


Sorry to say http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

You are woefully ignorant to what happened and is perhaps still going on yet still

Small weird looking kids (even babes) walking around talking like Linda Blair in the Exorcist? People with tails? Bloodsuckers? Wolf men? Cat men? Sounds rather strange, eh?

The Rebels (death angels) know which flesh they transfigure into, some even chose half human animal hybrids products as hosts. Things beyond your closed mind, even if you should see one you would not admit it to anyone.

But all you want to do is find a way to vent your hostility towards your maker? Talking about things you do not understand?

Everyone has heard of the Cattle mutilations
but no one talks about the people they find like that?

Eh? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

The buzzards wont even go near those carcasses. But that doesnt exist, right?

And your world doesnt include ugly truths just cotton candy decor?

Real fine motif, yeaaaay !
And he was a real fine boy but with a few extra jeans thrown in, eh?

There will always be a remnant
that knows the truth.



Good bye Mr. Smith http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[rachelengland (rachelengland)]

john i'm disturbed over your post is this for real or part of your fiction? truly john are you serious?

[trainedobserver (trainedobserver)]

rachelengland,

john's comments are obviously from a disturbed and deluded individual. I know what he is talking about and it is a bunch of nonsense.

[john_parker (john_parker)]

Batman, Spiderman, Superman and the X men do not exist, right?

Shall I sing you a sleepy lullaby too? (lol)


PEACE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[john_parker (john_parker)]

X men and other strange things are (very simply) no match to what Jesus has given us

His own sword ! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

You can trust Jesus Christ to keep His Word http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif


PEACE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[rachelengland (rachelengland)]

John-we can all sleep better knowing sane men like you are spreading God's word-rachel

[john_parker (john_parker)]

BACK THEN

The Giants

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [b]mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.


Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.





WHAT IS HERE NOW AND IS COMING
(to be revealed to the world at large)



Joe 2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:


Nah 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men [are] in scarlet: the chariots [shall be] with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.


Still, no match for a man woman or Child of the living God


PEACE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif