Binding and Loosing [Archive]

easeltine

05-21-2006, 11:53 PM

Bear,

Quoting from Derek Prince's last book, They Shall Expel Demons, 1998, (I think he was around 87 when he wrote this book):

"In Matthew 12:29, speaking about driving demons out of a person, Jesus said, "Or else how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house."
If there is a "gang" of demons, the "strong man" is usually the leader who controls and dominates the rest. In the process of deliverance it will generally be the first to manifest itself.
Further on, in Matthew 18:18, Jesus gave His disciples the authority to "bind" or "loose" spiritual forces: "Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be loosed in heaven."
The authority to bind or loose can be very effective in dealing with demons, but its exercise must be safeguarded by the application of important spiritual principles.
***
In two places Jesus speaks about authority to bind and loose. In each case it is relationship to the Church. Matt. 16:18-19...
Again in Matthew 18:17-18 Jesus is speaking about bringing an offending brother before the Church...In this case binding and loosing is a collective action of the Church as a whole.
The key to the scriptural exercise of all authority is right relationships. This applies specifically to binding and loosing demonic forces. A person who is not in a right relationship to the Body of Christ may attempt to bind or loose demons, but the authority to make it effective will be lacking."
***
My observation.
Usually, in a deliverance ministry the terminology of, "I bind you in Jesus name...", would mean that the person praying is taking authority of the demon's, (or control demon's), power, and stops the manifestation of the demon's activity, (this is not a pretty sight). Then you start commanding the demon to leave.
The idea being that the control demon of the person is connected to a demon, or evil spirit above them in the heavenlies, and the power needs to be bound.

bear

05-22-2006, 12:00 AM

Wow, Aaron, where did the "..since you know all things" come from? I was just trying to have a healthy debate on the issue; I did not realize that you would take offense, so I apologize.

I started this thread because I hear so much within certain church's about binding the devil. I am amazed, because the scriptures never say anything about that.

As Christians we are to put on the whole armor of God. There are specifics in the passages of scripture that teach us how to fight spiritual battles. James also tell us to "resist the Devil and he will flee from you" The rest of the text is importan as well.

In my next post, I will explain.

bear

05-22-2006, 12:16 AM

Hey eastline,

In Matthew 12, there is not any connection to binding and loosing. Plus this is the only text that has any "proof" of binding a demon. Jesus, his disciples, Paul...they never said "I bind you". Jesus commanded demons to leave, and he faught the devil with scripture.

Plus, Jesus has already "Bound" the devil at the cross. Our Job is to resist him.

That is a great scripture, for I do believe in casting out demons, spiritual warfare, etc. I just believe that shouting and carrying on in usless; unsriptural, the flesh.

I realize that many people use the word "bind" as a buzz word. However, there are many who believe that you can actually "Bind" Satan; tie him up spiritually, when they pray.

How long does this bind last? If, like some I have met, we bind Satan off from a city (lol) how come the city is still full of Satan's influence

Again Matthew 12 does not have anything to do with binding and loosing. Your observation is great, for I have experienced much of the same. I have, however, studied the scriptures, and realize that we fight the devil with the word; we resist him, and draw near to God, we put on the armor, and always wear it.

bear

05-22-2006, 12:41 AM

Part 2

Eastline, you said concerning Mathhew 18, and I think that you were also refering to ch 16:

"The key to the scriptural exercise of all authority is right relationships. This applies specifically to binding and loosing demonic forces."

That is not the case. First, let's look at the practice of binding and loosing:

1. In its original meaning, each synagouge would have their own Rabbi. This Rabbi would study the scriptures, and teach accordingly.

- this was known as their "yoke"

When interpreting the text, each Rabbi had a teaching on what was permitted and not permmited according to the text.

- This was known as "Binding and Loosing"

This was a common understanding in Jesus's day. Therefore, in Matthew 16 and 18, Jesus, who was a Rabbi, is giving this same authority to his followers, in this case, decisions in accordance with the word.

In the context of each chapter we NEVER find anything close to dealing with demons.

What we believe today, our practices, are the result of binding and loosing.

Here is a biblical example of B&L: Acts 15:23-29. This deals with the doctrines for new gentile believers. Vss 28-29 are a clear example of binding and loosing.

I love Derek prince, and others, but many hold to the traditions that they have been taught.

When one studies the bible, with a literary and historical critique, one finds the true nature of B&L, not one popular in Penecostalism.

easeltine

05-22-2006, 12:52 AM

Bear,

Taking the entire context, Matthew 12:22-30, is titled, A House Divided Cannot Stand, and is talking about the kingdom of Satan. This Scripture is talking about the individual person being prayed for and not for a city. Derek Prince and other deliverance ministers have used this text for binding spirits and I think that it is a valid Scripture for this purpose.

You are correct that people take the meaning out of context, and there are not too many other Scriptures regarding this idea of binding.

Another point you make that is sort of strange, is the point regarding the armor of God. Some Deliverance ministries like to put on the armor of God all the time. Before their prayers they will put on the helmet of salvation, then they put on the breastplate of righteousness, then they put on the shoes of the gospel of peace, the Girdle of Truth, then the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, then they take the Shield of Faith, etc.

Why did they take their armor off?

Some have told me that there armor comes off when they go to sleep, in bed.

Campbell McAlpine was once asked, "Which part of the armor do you put on first?" His reply, "I never take my armor off."

How often do you put your armor on and off Bear?

bear

05-22-2006, 01:13 AM

Eastline,

1. In my first post to you I mentioned that we must put on the arnor and keep it on.

How is what I say strange?

The deliverance ministers you spoke of have a weird sense about them, as do most who consider themselves soley in the deliverance ministry.

Just because you respect them, that does not mean that their terminiolgy is correct.

2. I agree with you about Matthew 12, but the word "Bind" does not have any connection to binding and loosing. Plus, in Jesus' example, he never tell us to say "I bind you Satan". we do not find this ANYWHERE in scripture.

****** Study the history of B&L in the Jewish world, you might be amazed.

Jesus is the one who binds, not us. We can cast out a demon, and in our own lives, resit him, fight him with scripture,and draw close to God.

Sreaming and yelling at demons is nothing more than spiritual acrobatics.

3. In a way, we can bind the devil by resisting him, and loose him by sinning. This, however, is a play on words, and never has anything to do with binding and loosing historically, or in Matthew 16&18.

Conclusion: it does not matter what someone teaches, if it does not line up with scripture, it is not accurate.

Matthew 12 is not enough proof, not even close, to say that we can bind and loose the devil. yet I can show many scriptures on how to fight the devil using scripture.

easeltine

05-22-2006, 03:58 AM

Bear,

I have been connected with the same deliverance minister, (Shepherding Movement), for 28 years. In 2 months my best friend, and currently the minister of our home church, will be leaving to be part of the main pastor's church in a state on the East Coast while we are on the West Coast.

I will need to be making a decision shortly.

overseas

05-22-2006, 05:51 AM

This whole thing with binding and loosing is just another misuse of a biblical term. If one studies the occurrence of binding and loosing in NT, it will find it twice by referrence to the 'keys' of heaven. Once it is about apostles (they were given the keys) and once it is about pharishees (they are also told that they have the keys but do no let people in heaven). It is clearly about proclaiming the gospel. No reference to devil or us exercising some powers etc. Just read the passages in Gospels.

bear

05-22-2006, 07:09 PM

Overseas,

Where is it that you find the Pharisees?

Matthew 16 speaks of the keys of heaven; the power of authority given to the disciples...

Matthe 18 is dealing with church discipline; the power of authority in dealing with situations...

B&L is not "...Clearly about proclaiming the Gospel". While that is a part of the package, it is not exclusive. This conclusion is drawn AFTER reading the "passages in Gospels" as you said.

Sorry, but B&L was about exercising power of authority; permitting and forbidding.
_________________________________

Eastline,

I wanted to let you know that I believe in deliverance ministry. I am thankful that ministers are aware that deliverance is part of a Jesus style ministry.

I pray that God gives you wisdom, and a clear peace in your decision.

arron

05-22-2006, 11:44 PM

rachel my little girl where are you havent seen you today. be good and i am praying for you. just wanted to know how you are.

bear

05-24-2006, 02:28 AM

Let's take a look at how B&L was used in the Jewish world.

Rabbi's would be called upon in their communities to interpret scriptural commands. For example, the law ststes that one was not to work on the sabbath, but what can be defined as work?

Well, the rules that these Jews lived by on the sabbath, what was permmited or "loosed", and prohibited or "bound" was a result of the Rabbi's act of B&L.

I will say this, in a technical way, we do "bind" Satan by resiting him, and "loose" him by sinning. However, this is a play on words; an application if you will, and NOT the meaning of B&L, regardless of what our favorite preacher may say; regardless of their success.

franklin

05-24-2006, 11:01 AM

There are certain words and phrases that are common in cults and also some non cultic Churches. Binding and loosing is a phrase in that category. It is used in WoFF in North Carolina. One of the nation's worst cults. Cult members gather around a poor soul the cult leader picks out, blasts this person with ear shattering screams, shouting to supposedly cast the demons out of this person until the demons come out of this person as vomit in a bucket. That is how they take care of someone of a rebellious nature and failing to conform.

That is their version of binding and loosing. It is a sick, warped, perversion of Christianity. They started out years ago as just another normal seeming church. A little bit pentecostal. Now they are a full blown dangerous mind control cult!

There are certain behaviors and terminology that all cults share. Some fairly normal churches use some of the same wordage.

Either way it is best that we identify what is twisted scripture and make clarification and corrections to prevent more false doctrines and practices from infecting the body of Christ. Ya'll are doing a fine job clarifying the phrase binding and loosing. Thanks. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

rachelengland

05-24-2006, 12:21 PM

aaron I'm doing pretty good. you are such a sweet man for asking. I hope your health is improving and that your grandbabies are good.

Thank you for your prayers even if I'm not always sure where I stand, I appreciate. R

bear

05-26-2006, 03:06 AM

rachelengland,

Regarding the old church, I was once a bald man, worked with the Student Ministry, the Interns, etc.

You said that you had associated with the Interns, so we have met at some point.

I am curious to know who you are, but I do not want to blow your Identity.

Yes, I am male, about 6'2", I was really into triathlons for a spell...

If you have a clue, you can mention my first name only.

rachelengland

05-26-2006, 02:12 PM

Gosh bear I'm just not putting it together(but you sound so hot how did i miss that)? and I'm not sure if I want you to figure me out because if you do you might tell other people and they will see how naughty I am!!! I was probably the most popular and controversial singer in the church at the time..

Bear I began attending that church when it was peoples church and left at the age of 20 when I married and moved to south america. People would be surprised that this girl dabbles with the thought of atheism at times. take care R

bear

05-26-2006, 04:43 PM

Well, I keep information to my self.

Hot? well, maybe from a distance on a very dark night.

I have opinions that have been formed over the past 4 years. Many of the things that I have been taught, I question.

My name is Al.

rachelengland

05-26-2006, 05:12 PM

My name Al is very unique, it does start with an R and is similar to rachel but Bear people watch everything I post on here(for entertainment purposes) I developed a skill called sexuality and it's works well for me) I think pastor Bernie caught on to that when I was younger-I had what a friend called the jessica Simpson complex you can cover it up all you want but people still know it's there.

Maybe you and I never crossed paths(which sounds like a shame) I may have left as you came in and it sounds like things have simmered down at Rez since I walked it's halls-I'm telling you though Bear they had some real characters preaching from that pulpit in the past!!!!

sorry for the rambling....R

bear

05-26-2006, 07:09 PM

I totally understand.

overseas

05-30-2006, 06:06 AM

BINDING AND LOOSING MEANS USING THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM THAT IS PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL

Lc. 11:52 - Jesus accuses the law teachers that they have the key to knowledge but do not use it nor let people enter the kingdom. How was it possible that law teachers had the same powers (the keys) that disciples were given in Mt. 16:19 ? Simply because the keys mean the true knowledge of God that was available in the Scriptures (see Timothy about '...the Scriptures that can save you').

Mt. 23:13 - Jesus accuses law teachers and Pharisees they shut the door of the kingdom for the people.

Mt. 16:19 - Disciples are told that now they have the keys of kingdom of heaven, cause they know Jesus which is the only way and they. That is also referred as binding and loosing.

rachelengland

05-30-2006, 01:53 PM

What??? That makes no sense to me overseas - here we go again though, making non-sense by making up our own translation of what the scripture really says.

But that's christianity in general- everyone makes up their own theory of what the Bible is trying to say.. Then we pick what works for us..it's no different than deciding the kind of music we like...it's all about taste I suppose R

overseas

05-30-2006, 02:02 PM

I said I have verses for you. You asked me to bring them. Now, talk Bible to me. The rest is chatting. I can chat with people that 'bind and loose' around, as long as they don't claim they derive their practice from Bible.
And you're right. That's Christianity. Freedom to go straight to God.

arron

05-30-2006, 11:43 PM

rachel my little girl be careful of what you say.,
and i am praying for you my child, be a good girl so i want chang my mind about you

bear

05-31-2006, 02:00 AM

Overseas,

One must also study the history of a topic. That which I have posted is historically accurate.

You said:
"I can chat with people that bind and loose around, as long as they don't claim they derive their practice from the bible."

Well, not to be rude, but your claim is an application of the doctrine, and not the accurate meaning.

Now, "Keys" mean authority. If you want to apply binding and loosing to preaching the gospel, exclusively, how is this done?

Please explain:

Binding - the application to preaching.

Loosing - the application to preaching.

Matthew - why is B&L only found in this book?

Luke 11:42 and Matthew 23:13 do not have anything to do with binding and loosing.

Also, Matthew 18 (which you did not mention) does not have anything in the context dealing with preaching.

Please respond.

overseas

05-31-2006, 05:56 AM

While I am preparing the response, please consider how come that the Jew teachers of the law and the Pharishees (!) had the same 'keys' with the ones that were given to the apostles. The 'keys' were always there.

rachelengland

05-31-2006, 12:20 PM

aaron I am being good, I promise..I appreciate you-you know that. Rachel

arron

06-01-2006, 12:56 AM

hey rachel tonight at church one of our youth ministers said GOD had led him to have people come down an pray for those on their hearts. you and blue water came to my mind and i went down for prayer for both of you. for different reasons of course. i may kid you both a lot but i am serious when i say i pray for you and i was serious tonight. i believe GOD heard the prayer. we may not believe alike you and i but i still pray for you be good my little girl

bear

06-02-2006, 08:33 PM

Overseas,

Yes, "keys" in antiquity denoted authority. The authority spoken of in Matthew 16 does not have anything to do with anyone elses authority, nor does it really have anything to do with B&L.

I feel that you are interpreting this according to your pastor's, or some other teacher/authors, teaching. If it does not line up textually and historiclly, well it does not matter who is doing the teaching, it will be wrong.

What I am saying is that B&L is not soley about preaching the good news. In fact, the passage in Matthew 16 deals with three distinct issues. How do you bind someone with the good news?

I am still looking forward to your response from my earlier post.

trsrinheaven

06-02-2006, 10:39 PM

God allows what you allow.
You have free will to choose to stop or allow what goes on in your life.
"I put before you life and death blessing or curses therefore choose life. For out the same mouth comes blessing or curses"
If you do not take the authority paid for by Jesus sacrifice and triumph over evil and given to you which is the power in "the name of Jesus which is above every name that is named."

Mt 18:18 "Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind(lock up and shall not allow) upon the earth (God will not allow and by his power)shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose (Set free and allow) on the earth (God will allow and by his power) shall be having been loosed in the heavens."

19`Again, I say to you, that, if two of you may agree on the earth concerning anything, whatever they may ask -- it shall be done to them from my Father who is in the heavens,

Luke 9
1Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

2And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

3And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.

4And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.

5And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

6And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

"20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

We are in communion as part of Christs body the "Body of Christ" and are seated with him at His right hand given the authority he has. He is the head and we are the body joined together with him in heavenly places according to numerous scriptures.

Philippians 2:9-10
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

bear

06-02-2006, 11:24 PM

Trsinheaven,

A wounderful message there.

Authority given over demons, etc, comes the package of salvation. My position is that one does not exercise B&L in spiritual warfare. The only way that this is applied is personally. If we sin we loose the devil, if we submit to God and resist the devil, we bind him.

We HAVE to understand how B&L was used historically. We can not just take a few scriptures, put them togehter, and assume a doctrine.

I agree with the scriptures posted, but they are not proof that B&L deals with spiritual warfare.

Do you know how B&L was used in Jesus' day? if so, explain.

trsrinheaven

06-05-2006, 01:35 AM

bear,
The name of Jesus is above Philippians 2:9-10
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Part of the great commission Jesus gives "In my name you will cast out devils, tread upon serpents and scorpions (demonic forces)" Mark 16
We "battle not with flesh and blood but with spiritual principalities ..." Eph 6

B&L (as you put it) was not possible to use in Jesus's day. The name of Jesus could not be used until Jesus conquered satan, hell, death and the grave and gave this privledge and of using His name to us and His authority.
Jesus talking about the satan states we must first take authority over and prohibit(bind)him and render him harmless against us.
We are called to "set the captives free"..to loose the chains that bind them.

Matthew 12:29
Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Matthew 12:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 3:27
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Look up the words for bind and loose in the original helenistic greek
To bind tie, fasten, to bind, fasten with chains, to throw into chains
metaph.
to bind, put under obligation, of the law, duty etc. 1b
to be bound to one, a wife, a husband
to forbid, prohibit, declare to be illicit

King James Word Usage - Total: 44
bind 37, tie 4, knit 1, be in bonds 1, wind 1

To loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened, set free, bandages of the feet, the shoes, of a husband and wife joined together by the bond of matrimony, of a single man, whether he has already had a wife or has not yet married
to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free
of one bound up (swathed in bandages)
bound with chains (a prisoner), discharge from prison, let go
to loosen, undo, dissolve, anything bound, tied, or compacted together
an assembly, i.e. to dismiss, break up
laws, as having a binding force, are likened to bonds
to annul, subvert
to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act
to declare unlawful to loose what is compacted or built together, to break up, demolish, destroy
to dissolve something coherent into parts, to destroy
metaph., to overthrow, to do away with

King James Word Usage - Total: 43
loose 27, break 5, unloose 3, destroy 2, dissolve 2, put off 1, melt 1, break up 1, break down 1

arron

06-05-2006, 03:21 AM

well it is good to know that if i call on JESUS HE will help me in all my ignornace, weak faith, and troubles HE IS my HELP. PRAISE HIS NAME.

bear

06-07-2006, 12:20 AM

Trsinheaven,

Please take a few moments to read this entire post.

I want to let you know that I believe in having authority over the devil. I believe that spiritual warfare is needed for the Christian, that we preach freedom to the captives, etc. So, I am guessing that we believe the same as far as that is concerned.

Please take a moment to observe the following:

1. The word "bind" in Matthew 12:29 does not have any connection to the doctrine of B&L. First, Jesus is using an illustration to make his point. Second, if you want to interpret the verse, Jesus is the one who does the binding.

2. The Koine, ("Hellenistic" Means Greek) Greek defenitions are correct. However, in Jesus' day, the term "Binding and Loosing", as a practice, meant to prohibit or permit. This was practiced by the Rabbi's to interpret scriptures, and make decisions.

****The reason that we see this mentioned in Matthew is because:
1. Matthew's audience was Jewish
2. The theme is showing Jesus as King, and thus his authority.
3. They understood the practice.

Also worthy of mention is Matthew 18. This passage is dealing with church discipline. This corresponds with the historical use.

3. It does not matter how many times the text uses a word, the application is different. I must laugh at that attempt, (44 for bind, 43 for loose) for the sheer lack of proper exegesis. You cannot connect something based soley on a def. A Textual and historical critique is critical in biblical interpretation.

4. Even if the word bind or loose is used in a context about setting people free, it is not the same as the biblical and historical usage of the practice. (I will give some biblical examples of B&L later)

5. When it comes to us setting someone free, you can apply B&L. However, the statement:

"Satan, I bind you in Jesus name", which is used often, is not even biblical.

One can say that all they want; that is not Binding! The practice can be applied, as I mentioned, but the words we choose to use do not make it B&L. Consider the following:

- Jeus never used the word bind when casting out demons.

- In Acts, we never once see this either.

- Paul never used the terminiology.

Conclusion:

It is easy for us to group several scriptures with similar themes, words, etc, and try to connect them to another doctrine. In the case of B&L, the historical usage is what Jesus was passing on. Remember, up until that time, this practice was reserved for Rabbi's.

you stated:
B&L (as you put it) was not possible to use in Jesus's day. The name of Jesus could not be used until Jesus conquered satan, hell, death and the grave and gave this privledge and of using His name to us and His authority.

I am confused about what you mean. The way that I described it is historically correct.

arron

06-07-2006, 01:22 AM

brother bear i enjoy your post. you are not dogmatic nor get angry with your writtings like some do (my self included) i appreciate you my brother

trsrinheaven

06-07-2006, 05:28 PM

bear,
The name of Jesus is above every name that is named: Philippians 2:9-10
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Part of the great commission Jesus gives "In my name you will cast out devils, tread upon serpents and scorpions (demonic forces)" Mark 16
We "battle not with flesh and blood but with spiritual principalities ..." Eph 6

B&L (as you put it) was not possible to use in Jesus's day.
The name of Jesus could not be used until Jesus conquered satan, hell, death and the grave and gave all who would receive it, this privledge and authority of using His name over satan and evil.
Jesus talking about the satan states we must first take authority over and prohibit(bind)him and render him harmless against us.
We are called to "set the captives free"..to loose the chains that bind them.

Their are six different ancient Greek words translated bind in the Bible. All the same word is used here.
To enter satans house you must first have more power than him to bind him...

Matthew 12:29
Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mark 3:27
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

overseas

06-07-2006, 06:09 PM

'I feel that you are interpreting this according to your pastor's, or some other teacher/authors, teaching.'

Bear, you just keep your feelings for yourself. Plus, my pastor being very busy at the moment I will have to put up an answer for this issue. In case you're a medium or something (which may explain the feeling about my pastor) just tell me so I don't bother to write my answer. cause you just might read my mind.

overseas

06-07-2006, 06:15 PM

BTW, what is exactly the reason for which the 'keys' are not the same with 'binding and loosing' ? And I mean biblical reasons.
Sorry if I dissapoint you with my posts, but my pastor is momentarily busy and I just have to improvise...

bear

06-09-2006, 12:04 AM

Trs.,

B&L was already in use during Jesus' day. It was used in the context of which I have already explained.

As far as everything else that you have posted, I agree with you.

Also, I have a mentor who is Jewish; he converted to Christianity over 20 years ago. He holds to Doctorates, so I trust his teachings.

Also, I know the def. of "bind". However, once again, as we study the history of B&L from a Jewish point of view, what I have stated is true. B&L (as I have abbreviated it) was very possible, and in use, during Jesus' day.
Overseas,

My comment was not made to put you down, or to put myself on a block. B&L is misunderstood; applied in many areas, that it is not meant to be. I am not discrediting your pastor.

Keys means authority, and yes, they are associated with B&L: desision making, etc. But, authourity is not just spiritual warfare.

bear

06-09-2006, 12:06 AM

Aaron,

I meant to say this earilier, but I owe you a huge apology from another thread. I thought that your comment was aimed at me, and not you know who.

Forgive me for my curtness, is was presented out of a misunderstaning and I was wrong. I ask your forgiveness.

trsrinheaven

06-09-2006, 12:54 AM

bear,
I understand how you feel. I felt the same way once. But I found after studying all the scriptures, both old testament Hebrew and new testament (helenestic Jewish universal ancient Greek) Jesus conquered over all evil, defeating satan, redeeming us from all the curse(Galatians 3:13) and gave us privledges and Holy Spirit power.

You are living below your privledges. "You are destroyed for a lack of knowledge". I don't care how many phd's someone has, Jesus never had any phd's, Peter, Paul etc.. What matters is how much relationship, holy spirit and word someone has.
"1 Corinthians 2:16
"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
NOTE what Jesus did for us....
Jesus took the keys of hell death and the grave.
Revelation 1:18
"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

}

bear

06-09-2006, 01:05 AM

I have all the same study material that you have, and I have also studied this out.

Hear me: I BELIEVE AS YOU DO!

I just know that B&L really does not have anything to do with spiritual warefare as I have described.

True, Ph. D's do not guarenttee knowledge, but they help. My mentor, whom I spoke of, came from a Jewish background> I believe that he would know the historical use of the doctrine, even better than a person from a Pentecostal background.

Something else that I want to point out:

1. Jesus was the Son of God: He did not need a degree.

2. Peter: He spent 3 years with the Son of God. Have we?

3. Paul: Actually, he had the equiv. of a LL.D, a Doctor of Letters. Paul was a very educated man.

This is not an argument about degree's and education level, nor do I wish to make it one. You are an educated individual, as am I, so let's leave that puppy alonehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I do believe that B&L can be applied to spiritual warefare in practice, not in words. I know what the word bind means in the koine Greek. I also know that in Jesus' day, the term had a different meaning and application.

arron

06-09-2006, 12:57 PM

hey bear none taken.. i may not have written it clearly,
i have been told by one that i was not saved. now they are trying to get around that by saying they didnt say it then when it was shown thye did,, they jsut asked another question like their cult always does, i simply told they if they thought i wasnt saved why ask me? i told them to ask some one who they thought was saved. be good bear

ezekiel_37

06-11-2006, 06:41 PM

actually that one said that if you accept the anti-Christ as Jesus then you are not his brother and are not getting in to paradise yet. There is the Milennium after all, that great teaching period of 1000 years.

What ONE said to you arron, is not what you are portraying...look at arron, look at poor arron, they say I'm not saved.....

no one said that, but what was said is that IF you follow the fake jesus, when he comes to rapture you away, then you are not yet saved, and are not a true christian brother, for we cannot serve both the devil and Jesus.

Also, what was said is, that God chooses who is saved and who is not saved. We do not. You do not.

you have become a self righteous crybaby....look at poor me......oh please feel sympathy for me....they said this and they said that....everyone look at what they said....lol

I am tired of your lies, false statement and ignorance. I may not have been the one who said what you think was said to you, but I agree with what he said, and you need to grow up from a babe in Christ into a child of Christ, and then a man of Christ.....

good luck with flying away.

I think that this needed to be said.

As you NOW do claim the true Christ, you need to be admonished in His name, however when the tribulation starts, and you are not flown away anywhere, you will (by your belief)be worshiping the anti-Christ, and will no longer be in Christ's family, until you prove it to Him by works in the Milennium. For rapture followers will not be considered elect.

read my namesake, spiritually dead bones and the awakening of them...being a watchman for the nations...

You play ignorant even when truth is shown to you. Did you do homework in school or did others tell you what to say. I can guess.

You are spiritually blinded by RAPTURE, which is bad enough, but you are also deceived by familiar spirits, fake tongues leading you to believe what ever a man says.....do you know what lying familiar spirits are arron? lol, lol, lol

ha.....you even claim to speak the gift of tongues....ha.......

That is GOD speaking, and ALL understand when GOD speaks......hahahahahahaha.....

and it is to spread the gospel.....and all you said was haalaaashaaabooookaaaannnna. That is disgusting. You mock God.

you are a fool and deceived.

no more mister nice guy, you need to be whooped.
grow up from a babe into a man.

in His Service.
c

arron

06-12-2006, 05:29 PM

the one who posted above... yes it was said that i was not in CHRIST. if one is not in CHRIST then they are not HIS and therefore they are not saved. there is no way around it you are either saved or lost there is no middle ground. you are either on your road to heaven or to hell. there is no perutory or stoping off place to cleanse us of our sins after we die. as a tree falleth so shall it lie. yes i speak in other tongues yes i have the different gifts of THE SPIRIT AND i thank GOD FOR THEM. IF I NEED TO BE.. "WHOOPED" my GOD will do that for HE corrects me when i am wrong.. but man better not try it for i was taught by my parents if some one jumps on you jump back and beat the snot out of them. a fool say there is no GOD i do not say that for i reconize HIM AS SAVIOR. i do not worry about going to worship the antichrist.. for i will be gone i the rapture when he comes. i will be with THE LORD. i would never mock THE HOLY GHOST by even putting inprint words that are meant to mock tongues nor would i say such either for that is getting close to blasphemy. i know my works will NEVER save me. i am saved by THE BLOOD OF JESUS WHO DIED THAT I MIGHT LIVE. any one can get tired of many things like eating too much sinning too much running their mouth too much.. hearing others tell them the truth too much. i defend my beliefs and i am not mad at the one who posted for defending their beliefs. i intend to stand for mine. i am a babe in CHRIST i am a grown man in CHRIST and i have been my mama and daddys baby grew up and am now a man, i was my wifes, when she was alive , i was her "baby" as most men are who love their wife and are loved by them. i understand when GOD speaks for HE speaks to me in my lanquage, HE also speaks to me in THE HEAVVENLY LANQUAGE. he also speaks inother lanquages. my i can just go on and on about what HE does and has done for me, but that is not necessary. yes there are fools and of the one who posted will look in the mirror they will see one. i do not adres them any more and i dont wont them addressing me either. when we all get to heaven we will know things we did not know here on earth i will not be judged with the sinner they will not stand with the righteous wheni stand befroe GOD HE WILL JUDGE ME HIMSELF AND i WANT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING CAST OUT for my sins have been covered witht he blood. i wont have to worry about a "second chance" to be good or believe something i didnt believe before for i am save already and ready to go praise GOD forever more
AMEN