Is it time for a new Protestant Reformation

[lacpastor (lacpastor)]

There seems to be a restlessness in the Protestant churches today as we realize that we are losing the battle here in the US.

There has been no real growth since the late 1950's and the country seems to be in a post christian mindset.

The church growth movement of the late 70's through today appears to have only grown a church that is a million miles wide and 1/2 " deep.

What is the answer to this dilemma?

Where the church is persecuted it is growing. Here where we have freedom and every resource at our disposal things are at best maintaining status quo.

Why hasn't the American church ever been persecuted?

Is it time for a change?}

[1baptism (1baptism)]

The answer is to drop kick all the institutions and start from scratch with the Bible and get back to the Biblical form of Christianity instead of all the extravanganza that calls itself "Christianity". The real church can't be added to nor taken away. Therefore, the real church won't change and doesn't need to be changed. We need to purge that which is not Biblical and just focus on the basics, just like a football team would do when it hasn't been winning any games lately. If you want some real persecution, just try to play the game straight, without compromise. It will separate the wheat from the tares and the church will become the neat little bundle of the dedicated and loyal few. The church will never win a popularity contest until Christ returns. In the meantime, beware of anything that is popular.

[wyoming (wyoming)]

.

If you try to reform something, it is never totally reformed. To clean it up, you have to start from scratch as stated above.

Genuine revival would be independent of organized religion and in spite of organized religion.

[lacpastor (lacpastor)]

I agree with both of you- are we willing to wrestle in prayer that God would bring genuine revival?

[solopilot (solopilot)]

He did. It's called the Restored Gospel.

And, just like the Gospel the first time around, most people don't recognize it.

"The spirit of God like a fire is burning
The latter-day glory begins to come forth.
The visions and blessings of old are returning
and angels are coming to visit the Earth!

We'll sing and we'll shout
with the armies of Heaven,
Hosanna! Hosanna! to God and the Lamb!
Let glory to them in the highest be given,
henceforth and forever
Amen and amen!"

[overseas (overseas)]

Q: The real church can't be added to nor taken away. Therefore, the real church won't change and doesn't need to be changed.

Right. If one feels that all the visible/ organised church is God church, then the question is how is it possible to be so far away from the Bible ? My opinion is that we can talk about some denomination being impaired. But talking about the real church of the Lord (His bride), one can recognise it exactly cause it is not impaired but matching the life shown in the NT. I do not speak here about any organisation being the bride of Christ, but about individuals spread in many denominations that truly follow Jesus and conduct themselves by His word not by popular opinions. So speaking about the real church you cannot revive it cause it is already alive.

Q: Genuine revival would be independent of organized religion and in spite of organized religion.

OK just don't take it to extreme. As per above, my opinion is that organised religion sometimes overlaps with the true church. Of course I do not mean cults or dead wrong organisations.
My answer is that probably those belonging to the true spirit of God revival (and God help us to avoid any feeling of elitism) should stay where God put them and give an example to other believers. 1 Tim. 4: 12 Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.

Q: I agree with both of you- are we willing to wrestle in prayer that God would bring genuine revival?

Just let me put it in other terms: whenever God plans to change things for good by a drastical reformation, He calls people to pray.

Restored Gospel ? No way. We have the true Gospel in the Bible, that's how we know when we departed from it. We need restored hearts and another attitude to the same unchanged Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[called]

Someone once told me that their is not one scripture in the Bible that calls the Church-{US} the Bride of Christ! and i have not been able to find one either! Has ANYONE?

[ezekiel_37]

the elect are the bride of Christ and they do come out of the churches....there are 7 distinct different churches described in Rev2-3 and these 7 churches represent the world wide body of Christ. 2 of the 7 churches are looked upon in favour while the other 5 are not...but some will come out of all churches

only the 7,000 very elect (WHO WITNESS to the world before the Anti-Christ)and then the 144,000 who come out of Babylon after the witness but before the true Messiah arrives...
(these could be spiritual numbers representing a larger multitude)

these are the only ones who can share space with Christ in the Millenium....

all the other people will have to PROOVE themselves by WORKS to have a chance at Eternity....those names are EARNED into the Book of Life.

Peace
c

[called]

only the 7,000 very elect (WHO WITNESS to the world before the Anti-Christ)and then the 144,000 who come out of Babylon after the witness but before the true Messiah arrives...
(these could be spiritual numbers representing a larger multitude)
these are the only ones who can share space with Christ in the Millenium...."

Ok i am trying to understand this becouse i never heard this before< so what your saying is only the 144,000 and 7000 very elect= 151,000 all in all will be invited to the wedding feast or marriage supper of the lamb? which will last 1000 years, id like to study this, where can i fond this brother

[called]

The only place i can find that is called the Bride or Wife of the Lamb is where the Angel shows John The New Jerusalem in Rev 21:9, and also 2 Cor 11:2 where the apostle Paul says you are like a pure virgin whom i have promised in marriage to one man only christ Himself, here i can see that we are being called the future wife of christ! thats it!

[thekingsent1_again]

God's church is in no need for any reformation, as it has been perfectly well from it's creation.
Those who joined were reformed at entrance.
But man's church and the synagogs of satan...
.....is a diffrent tale!

[called]

YES Brother i 100% Agree, I wish everyone could see that truth!

[philiprosenthal]

I think the reason why most of the contemporary Western church is not being persecuted, is that it has become so compromised in terms of what it is saying and doing, that it does not pose much if any of a threat to the government or anyone else. If the contemporary biblical church was to stand up and condemn wickedness in society and the church as did the prophets, Jesus (Matthew 23) and the apostles (Acts 2,4), then they would most definitely be persecuted. The church must repent of compromise and stop trying to tame the gospel to make it acceptable to wicked sinners.

[fatherofaking]

hey phil,

there are people doing that right now.

christendom is not god's church.

[called]

(lacpastor)

"""Why hasn't the American church ever been persecuted?
{{{Answer becouse it is not and never has been of God}}}!!!

Is it time for a change?}"""
Answer {{{YES}}}

First of all the Protestant Churches are the daughters of their Mother Whore the catholic church, They have Never Ever fully come out of her and will indeed receive her plagues,

Revelation 18:4 (King James Version)

18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I am not saying that God Don,t have People in the Protestant churches of christendom, the scripture makes it clear that their are!!! But they are commanded to come out of them {{{ THE FALSE CHURCH SYSTEM}}}!!! A Christian is a follower of Christ which is the word of God as it is written and no Sect or Denomination on the face of the earth follows or teaches the Bible word for word as it is written without compromise!!! and their is no room for compromise in the true body of Christ whatsoever!!!


Many are called but few are chosen! only the chosen will follow the word of God as it is written without compromise and keep Gods commands unto the End!!! Becouse straight and narrow is the way that leads to life and {{{FEW}}} their be that find it!!!
The whole world is going to the lake of fire, only those who come out of this worldly church system and follow the word of God {{{ONLY}}} will even have a chance of entering that city!!!

In Christ
Johnny

[called]

America was not founded on Christianity as everyone is lead to belive!!! it was founded on Protestantism that freshly came partly out of Catholicism that has NOTHING Whatsoever to do with Pure Biblical Christianity!!!
Thats why the so called church system of America has never went through any real hardship!{{{ITS NOT THE TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST}}} and has never been. Christ told his followers that if they were of the world the world would love them. Christendom is a worldly Church System Point Blank!!! Only the True Church will go through persecution.

[david777]

Oh! Brother, this is what the bible calls doctrine of demons.

Not to mention fools proclaiming to be wise.

[david777]

"""Why hasn't the American church ever been persecuted?
{{{Answer becouse it is not and never has been of God}}}!!!

Wrong called,

The devil always persecute that which belongs to God.
Haven't you read the New Testament and how the Church was persecuted then?

[wayfaring_stranger]

What the did you call 9/11 Called?

What do you think the church shootings are?

What do you think taking prayer out of schools is about?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

(Message edited by Wayfaring Stranger on October 07, 2006)

[david777]

Called,

The whole US of A is being under attack.
The tear down of the constitution, free speech, separation of state and religion, as well as the other points already mentioned by wayfaring_stranger.

For instance, there is witchcraft being allowed in the Arm forces using the freedom of speech card, but when it comes to Christianity they use the separation of state and religion card.

The schools are teaching about homosexuality and Islam under the pretext of toleration, but Christianity itself is not being tolerated.
I could go on and on, but what is the point of trying to make a dead man see?

For even a blind man can see that we Christians are in fact being persecuted here in America.

Your false Gospel is proof of this!

[called]

"""For instance, there is witchcraft being allowed in the Arm forces using the freedom of speech card, but when it comes to Christianity they use the separation of state and religion card.

The schools are teaching about homosexuality and Islam under the pretext of toleration, but Christianity itself is not being tolerated.
I could go on and on, but what is the point of trying to make a dead man see?"""

And you call the USA a Christian Country its a joke! yes their are some God fearing Christians their but not nearly enough to make a differance is their?

[called]

What the did you call 9/11 Called?

An act of its own government!!! you need to realy check it out man!!!

[david777]

I don’t call the USA a Christian country any more, but at one point it was.
This country is the way it is now because the people allowed themselves to be apart from God.
How many people protested when God was thrown out of schools and courts?
I don’t think that many.

But what I am trying to say is, that we got to this point by allowing the enemy to attack us while we were still a Christian nation. (Yes the enemy attacks God’s people)
And many more things will happened if we don’t turn back to God for his protection.


Yes, 911 was an act of it’s own government because God allowed it to happened.
But that’s a whole different subject that I am not going to get into right now.

[called]

David
People in the USA and all over the world are hopeing and praying for PEACE and Praying that things will sooner or later get better! but the Bible dose not teach this at all!!! it teaches things will get worst and worst until all Hell breaks lose here on earth just before the return of Messiah! and we can not change one dot in the scriptures!!! so just hold on Sir becouse its going to be a long hard ride!!!

[david777]

Called,

Allow me to refer you to the book of Jonah (you might not be familiar with it)
God was planning to destroy the city of Nineveh but withheld his judgement because people actually repented. Yes, God ultimately destroyed them all, but the point is that he withheld his judgment for a long time because they repented. God is the same , yesterday, today, and forever. I don’t think that the people in the USA are in a rush to get judged. You see, I am unlike you, optimistic in God’s mercy.


“and we can not change one dot in the scriptures!!!”

Then stop trying to change them (called)!

[called]

so you belive that all the Gays, Lesbians, Whores and God only knows just how many millions and millions of other freaks in the {USA} are all going to repent and join the nearest Church right!!! Ya when they have snow ball fights in Hell David!

[david777]

Are you seriously implying that the USA is the only country in the world that houses Gays, Lesbians, Whores and God only knows just how many millions and millions of other freaks, as you put it?

I supposed that everybody in the Philippines is save because they have you to shine the light,
right?

[called]

Ofcourse not but it is the richist most power country on the face of the earth that wears a Christian banner and puts in God we trust on their Money while they take the prayer out of the schools and fire teachers for praying for their students in the schools, and try to lock up people for 47 years for preaching against
homosexualty in a park!

NYC Board of Education Mulls Teacher Suit

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewReligion.asp?Page=\Religion\archive\REL1999082 3a.html

And we can go on all day and night but you get the point!!!


The Philadelphia Story
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/inpublic.asp

[david777]

Well, I tell you what you can do, pray for my country instead of pointing fingers as it appears to be your favorite pastime.

Replace your gift of condemning with the gift of prayer and let’s pray for God’s mercy instead of God’s judgment.

This is what being a Christian is all about!

[called]

I agree with you! i am American to and my whole Family lives back in Paterson New jersey which i haven,t seen in 5 years! i do pray for the well being of all of them including you and yours david but theirs alot of reasons why i left america and one of them is the so called freedom of speach and religion which is very limted their! I have found that{{{Christian}}} is only a banner it wears to misslead other nations!
But i know their is alot of good God fearing Christians their that feel like i do!!!

Johnny

[david777]

I am sorry Called, but you cannot call yourself a Christian if you deny the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The whole Christian foundation was started on Jesus deity.
You cannot come to me and claim for instance that you can built a house with walls, roof and all. But with no foundation. The house simply would not stand.
Or that you are a physicist and ignores the law of gravity. Then how the heck would you proclaim to be a physicist at all

You can’t ignore the law of gravity any more than you can’t deny the deity of Jesus.
(If you are a Christian that is)

I suggest that you stay away from the mind disturbing novels and movies such as the Da Vinci Code.
They will pollute your brain with mind twisting lies that is not even funny.

[granite]

david -- It is folly for anyone to claim that the Messiah is not divine, for there are at least 10 evidences of his divinity:

1. In John 8:58, he calls Himself "I AM"
2. His virgin birth &amp; supernatural conception
3. Sanctioned by the Divine voice (twice)
4. His sinlessness
5. He forgave sins
6. He healed &amp; worked other miracles
7. He was transfigured.
8. He had mind-reading ability
9. He raised himself from the dead: "Destroy this temple, and in 3 days I will raise it up." (John 2:19-21)
10. He is called "Lord" and "the image of God."

But what some trinitarians mean when they talk about, "the Deity of Christ," is the Incarnation of some mythical entity as "God the Son," being one-third of God. If God were 3 Persons, and Jesus was God incarnate, then there should have been triplets in the manger! Or maybe a 3-headed baby.

Now the Jesus only people, when they say "the Deity of Christ," they mean that Jesus was God the Father robed in flesh, that the throne of God in Heaven was empty, Jesus was a ventriloquist, and that God's Spirit was not omnipresent while Jesus walked this earth.

If believing in "the Deity of Christ" means one of those two options, no wonder the the JWs reject it; I would too, &amp; do. The Son is not one-third of God; neither is the Son the Father.

Jesus is the Incarnate Word. He is NOT God incarnate, but he is God MANIFEST.

[called]

Yes Christ was divine, as granite said Scripture proves this over and over,and i don,t deny this at all!!! if i did i could not be a Christian as you said!
Colossians 2:8 (King James Version)

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Full nature of God was in Christ Joshua which made him divine!

This just means that the full nature of God dwelt in Christ but that does not make him God Almighty!!!

1 Corinthians 3:23
And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be God, {even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ}, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

The Apostles preached that the Messiah was the {Son of God} not that the Messiah was God Himself!!!

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be {{{the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS DAVID!!!
Ephesians 1:17
{{{That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, {the Father of glory}, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:


{{{THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST}}}!!! WOW!!!
If Christ was God Almighty than he would be his own GOD!!!

Ephesians 5:2
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

If Christ was God than God would wave been his own sacrifice!!! or God would have sacrificed himself to himself!!!
Again i can go on and on all day but am hope you get the point here!!!

Johnny

[called]

Yes Christ was divine, as granite said Scripture proves this over and over,and i don,t deny this at all!!! if i did i could not be a Christian as you said!
Colossians 2:8 (King James Version)

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Full nature of God was in Christ Joshua which made him divine!

This just means that the full nature of God dwelt in Christ but that does not make him God Almighty!!!

1 Corinthians 3:23
And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be God, {even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ}, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

The Apostles preached that the Messiah was the {Son of God} not that the Messiah was God Himself!!!

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be {{{the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS DAVID!!!
Ephesians 1:17
{{{That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, {the Father of glory}, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:


{{{THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST}}}!!! WOW!!!
If Christ was God Almighty than he would be his own GOD!!!

Ephesians 5:2
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

If Christ was God than God would wave been his own sacrifice!!! or God would have sacrificed himself to himself!!!
Again i can go on and on all day but am hope you get the point here!!!

Johnny

[called]

Yes Christ was divine, as granite said Scripture proves this over and over,and i don,t deny this at all!!! if i did i could not be a Christian as you said!
Colossians 2:8 (King James Version)

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Full nature of God was in Christ Joshua which made him divine!

This just means that the full nature of God dwelt in Christ but that does not make him God Almighty!!!

1 Corinthians 3:23
And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be God, {even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ}, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

The Apostles preached that the Messiah was the {Son of God} not that the Messiah was God Himself!!!

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be {{{the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS DAVID!!!
Ephesians 1:17
{{{That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, {the Father of glory}, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:


{{{THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST}}}!!! WOW!!!
If Christ was God Almighty than he would be his own GOD!!!

Ephesians 5:2
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

If Christ was God than God would wave been his own sacrifice!!! or God would have sacrificed himself to himself!!!
Again i can go on and on all day but am hope you get the point here!!!

Johnny

[david777]

Are you guys double-talking me again? (Called &amp; follower)

I thought that you said (called) that Jesus in not God.

If He is not God, how is then that you now admit to his divinity?

Which one is it?

God or not God?

[turtle]

My answer to the very first post. Do we really need reform or do we need to get back to the basic and get on our knees and repent. REally seeking God. God hasn't changed we have. We allowed the world to influence us for to long. Lets us get on our needs and seek repentance and seek after God with our whole heart and stop giving lip service on Sunday morning and living how we want the rest of the week.

[turtle]

boy it sure gets quiet around here.

[called]

Are you guys double-talking me again? (Called &amp; follower)

I thought that you said (called) that Jesus in not God.

If He is not God, how is then that you now admit to his divinity?

Thats right thats exactly what i said! Jesus is Not God!!! He is the Son of God with the fulness of the Godhead dwelling in him which does not make him God! Divinity and Deiity is two very differn,t things david and you need to learn the differance between the two!!! I Admit to his Divinity But deny he was Deity!!! and i gave you 47 reasons why!!! You are the one in Error david! I Pray one day you,ll be able to see that!

Christ Divinity comes from the Father or God dwelling in Him! But Christ is Not God or the Father!!! He is the Son!!!!!!!!
Johnny

[called]

AGAIN DAVID!!
"""The Apostles Preached that Christ was the Messiah{THE SON OF GOD} Not that the Messiah was God Himself!!!"""

2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

The Apostles preached that the Messiah was the {Son of God} not that the Messiah was God Himself!!!

Please LOOK!!!!!!!!!! AT THIS DAVID! If Christ is GOD than that means Your God Christ has a GOD!!!

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be {{{the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS DAVID!!!
Ephesians 1:17
{{{That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ}}}, {the Father of glory}, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:


{{{THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST}}}!!!

[david777]

Again called,

Explaining the Trinity

1. The Bible teaches that there is only one God. (Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:6-8, Isaiah 45:22)

2. The Bibles teaches that there is one who is called the Father and is identified as being God. (1 Peter 1:2)

3. The Bible teaches that there is one who is called Jesus and is identified as being God. (John 1:1-3&amp;14-18, John 20:28-29, 1 John 1:1-4&amp;5:20, Philippians 2:5-8, Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 22:12-20)

4. The Bible teaches that there is one who is called the Holy Spirit and is identified as being God. (John 14:16-17, John 15:26, John 16:7-15, Acts 5:3-4, Acts 13:2, 1 Corinthians 12:4-18, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 10:15-18)

[david777]

Please LOOK!!!!!!!!!! AT THIS DAVID! If Christ is GOD than that means Your God Christ has a GOD!!!
(Called)

No it Just means that Jesus as a man was teaching us how to pray to God the father by setting the example himself.

Don’t try to rationalize a complicated God that is bigger than the universe He created.

You don’t have to understand God’s function for Him to function.

The Apostles preached that the Messiah was the {Son of God} not that the Messiah was God Himself!!! (Called)


Yes, they also claimed that He was God.

John 20:28 (King James Version)
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Titus 2:13-14

13 while we look forward to that wonderful event when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.

[called]

"""Now the Jesus only people, when they say "the Deity of Christ," they mean that Jesus was God the Father robed in flesh, that the throne of God in Heaven was empty, Jesus was a ventriloquist, and that God's Spirit was not omnipresent while Jesus walked this earth"""

Yes and thats why i left the UPC after 11 long years among other things! Like Sunday rest and worship, The Celebration of Pagan catholic so called Holy days, The Collection of OT Tithing, and Fake Tongue speaking with no interpreters! and many other reasons!

[called]

I Truly believe with all my heart and teach that their is at least {{{6 Qualifications For Salvation}}}

In My ministry i teach that only 1.Repent 2.Baptized 3.Holy Spirit filled 4.Obedient 5.Faithfull 6.Born Again believers will ever even have a change of entering into the Kingdom of God!!!

1. {Repentance} 2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.


2. {Baptism} Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

3. {Holy Spirit filled Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


4. Obedient} Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.



5. {Faithful} Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

6. {Born Again Believers} John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And for this i am called or considered a heritic, a non christian Cult leader, and legalistic!!!

But i stand Firm no matter what and will not Compromise my convictions for no man on this earth no matter what the cost!!!

Johnny

[david777]

Now the Jesus only people, when they say "the Deity of Christ," they mean that Jesus was God the Father robed in flesh, that the throne of God in Heaven was empty, Jesus was a ventriloquist, and that God's Spirit was not omnipresent while Jesus walked this earth"""
(called)

Those people are mistaken. There is God the Father, God the son, &amp; God the Holy spirit.
Think of it as one pretzel with 3 loops.

People who believe that Jesus is God the Father or that The Holy Spirit is Jesus are mistaken.
The bible is very clear on who is who and what their functions are.

http://static.flickr.com/45/140780040_1d36724588_m.jpg

[granite]

The Jesus Only people believe Jesus Christ was God with skin on, or the Father in flesh. They have a little more understanding than most Trinity people, but both are misled.

There is no real distinction between Christ and the Spirit of Christ! "I will not leave you comfortless: <u>I</u> will come to you." (John 14:18)

Trinitarianism also creates a discrepancy in who Jesus' father was. Was it God the Father, or was it the Holy Spirit? (see Luke 1:35). That doctrine makes Jesus have two fathers!

When the Spirit fell on the Day of Pentecost, that was nothing more than the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of the Father. John refers to "the seven Spirits of God." So do you say we actually have NINE in the Godhead?

[david777]

No, only 3 in one God head.

[turtle]

On in three with yes nine distinct attributes. Buta ctaully there is probably more. But I know he is refering ot Isaiah in that post two above mine.

[granite]

Some trinitarians say, "Try to comprehend the trinity and you'll go crazy; but deny the trinity, and you'll go to Hell!" I don't think anyone will disagree that there is a "three-ness" to the way God has revealed Himself to us. But the real issue is, three what?

God has given us three manifestations of Himself:
1. As the Father in creation.
2. As the Son in redemption.
3. As the Holy Ghost in emanation.

These manifestations, or revelations, of God to us cannot rightly be referred to as "persons." Scripture only refers only to the "Person" of God the Father (Heb. 1:4). But to say "Persons" is to add to Scripture, and to cross the line away from the monotheism revealed and clearly declared therein.

God is ONE omnipresent Person.
He has TWO natures, human and divine.
He has THREE manifestations: God the Father, the Son of God, and the Holy Ghost.

The proper historical term for this understanding of God is Monarchianism.