Is the christian faith in jeopardy

[fatherofaking]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/page/2/

here is an article from newsweek that says that jesus tomb has been found.
it was announced at a news conference on monday
there is a documentary airing on the dicovery channel next week.

i have read dozens of news reports and have yet to find anything credible coming from the critics.
i am sure that there will be much more investigating but until then the evidence stands.

the current claim is that there is scientific (forensic and dna) evidence that point to this actually being the tomb of jesus.

just in case you say that finding the tomb of jesus is no big deal.

this tomb was not empty.
the claim is that the bones of jesus, his mother, mary magdalene, joseph, a brother, and jesus son were found.

here is a link to an interview with the filmmakers.

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/tomb/tomb.html

[trainedobserver]

Religious Decline in U.S. Follows Europe
By MATT CHERRY
HumanistNetworkNews.org
Jan. 24, 2007

Is the U.S. following Europe in becoming less religious and more humanist? This is the tantalizing prospect held out by some recent surveys.

A new survey in the U.S. shows that the number of 18-25 year olds who are atheist, agnostic or nonreligious has increased from 11 percent in 1986 to 20 percent today. Meanwhile a survey of the United States and the five largest countries in Western Europe reveals that religious belief continues to plummet in Europe, with Italy being the only country with a majority believing in any form of God or supreme being. And even in these overwhelmingly godless countries, the young are still significantly less religious than their elders.

Read the whole article at:
http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/?id=281&article=0

[skooter942000]

Remember who paid the Guards off,
- (to LIE).



_OMG_

- They stole HIS BODY IN THE NIGHT!!!
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif= The LIE!!!


___________________________

-Nothing New Under The SUN.
___________________________




- THE TARES DO LIE. (John 8)




AN AMAZING FACT:

They never FOUND them over 20 Centuries ago,
THE BONES (Or BODY of CHRIST),
- & everyone KNEW where HE was Buried.

They LOOKED
And LOOKED
AND LOOKED

& They still look;)



And now they believe to have found them.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif


What a JOKE(http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif)
- Just like Dan Browns NOVEL.

- Novel means what again?

novel 1
noun

1. A book-length fictional story usually
involving relationships between characters,
their emotional crises and events concerning them.

Thesaurus: book, narrative, romance, saga,
story, tale, yarn.

2. Such writing as a literary genre.

Form: the novel



1Jo 2:22-23
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth
the Father and the Son.


Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not
the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the
Son hath the Father also.


<font color="0000ff">
Many missed the 1st Advent of Messiah. (Zech 9:9)

- But they won't miss the 2cd!!! (Zech 9:10-on)

</font>
CHRIST is not coming back as a BABE in SWADDLING CLOTH.

- HE is coming BACK with a ROD, (For correction). - "TO RULE"

[bluewater2]

My dream would come true if there was actually someway to show that in fact these small caskets did contain the remains of Jesus and his family.
Would shoot a hole in the resurection thing, the fact propagated by christianity that Jesus never married, etc. I am sure that there will always be those that would refuse to believe the truth. It would make liars out of a lot of people. I mean, people still think that Elvis is alive.

[fatherofaking]

with all do respect scooter you need to look at the evidence before you pass it off as a a good laugh.

[trainedobserver]

"I am sure that there will always be those that would refuse to believe the truth."

This is known as the True Believer Syndrome. The True Believer has committed to divorce himself from rational thought and cannot be dissuaded by any evidence that might be presented because they no longer care about and might even suspect as evil any 'evidence' or 'rational thought' that contradicts their supernatural world view.

[fatherofaking]

without the doctrine of the ressurection there is no christian faith.


1co 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

[skooter942000]

BLUE,

Aren't you married/Dating a JEWISH WOMAN?



- no conflict there i bet. (...or is there)?



I found this link: (google search)
NCCG - Character assassination of "Bluewater2" as written by ...


You sure have a lot of messages linked
to your ID.





- Why must you attack CHRIST?

(Message edited by skooter942000 on February 27, 2007)

[trainedobserver]

I am skeptical of the Jesus Family Tomb find. It could certainly have been hoaxed in antiquity for all we know. There would have to be something other than the coincidence of the combinations of names to make me look at this more than 5 minutes.

[fatherofaking]

i agree TO.

that is far from all the evidence that has been presented.

these guys claim to have forensic and dna evidence.

[bluewater2]

Hi Scooty. I never attack Jesus. As a matter of fact, I am a big supporter of Jesus, the man, as I am the Buddha and all of the other wise men of history. I DO have a great dislike for the christian belief system because it is such a failure, based on lies, mysticism, superstition and having so clearly hijacked the religious book of an older and much more tolerant faith, historical manipulators. So, I do not attack Christ. I reject the idea that there ever was a Christ, but a Jesus, who lived and died, just like the rest of us.

I have a lovely Jewish girlfriend. I have a great respect for the Jewish religion, although I am an atheist. I go to temple often with her and the kids and support her and her methods of child rearing. There is no conflict because there is no need to convert anyone.

[yaakov2]

Oh, it’s here too. They just started a thread on this on my Jewish website.

My response is <yawn>. Even if it can somehow prove that the jesus fella wasn’t just a myth, that he actually did live and breathe, so what? Muhammad lived and breathed also. Neither one of them deserves to be worshipped or respected.

[fatherofaking]

hey yakov

that is not the point.

what they are saying is that they found his bones.
this blows apart the doctrine of the ressurection.
which effectively makes christinity null and void.

[yaakov2]

foa

<font color="0000ff">what they are saying is that they found his bones.
this blows apart the doctrine of the ressurection.
which effectively makes christinity null and void.</font>

While I will be the first to admit that I’m no expert in Christianity, that’s not the conclusion that I thought would be reached by this discovery. First of all, this would back their claim that the guy really did exist and was not just an amalgamation of existing legends. Second, they could claim that his spirit was resurrected, not his bones. Third, I would expect his bones to be placed in the Vatican and monitored. Then when the bones disappear, they could claim that the second coming was imminent because jesus needed them for his body.

[rachelengland]

Foak says..
"what they are saying is that they found his bones.
this blows apart the doctrine of the ressurection.
which effectively makes christinity null and void". YOU WISH! That isn't going to happen..christianity isn't going to die out.

Ummm, not that this matters much to me but this is what I just read in the above link,"It's impossible to know for sure"-so there you have it-impossible to know for sure....R

[yaakov2]

In addition, people won’t realize their mistake about jesus until the messiah arrives. One of the messianic prophecies is that all people will know G-d. Short of that happening, I don’t think any archeological discovery will free people from the Christian idol.

[fatherofaking]

i do not think we have seen the impact that this is going to have until the documentary is aired.


this is not the davinci code.

[fatherofaking]

yaakov,

most believe in a bodily ressurection.

no bones left in the tomb.

there is however people aready saying that it was a spiritual ressurection.

[fatherofaking]

I just read in the above link,"It's impossible to know for sure"

i would like to mention that this reference that rachel is refering to is in reference to a box that has the name of james on it.
this was not found in the tomb by the investigators.

they are trying to say that it belongs in the same tomb with the rest of the people found in there.
it has nothing to do with all of the others that were found in the tomb.

[rachelengland]

like anything else that pertains to the body..the bones and the true life and legacy of Jesus Christ it is impossible to know..this isn't going to debunk something as big as christianity...it makes for nice conversation and gives atheists a little to stir in the pot but ...it is impossible to know...

[fatherofaking]

...it is impossible to know...

not according to those that presented the scientific evidence.

[rachelengland]

Those who presented the facts are mearly men who are limited by the technology they created with their own minds and hands...

Just don't get too excited fatherofaking..you seem to be holding your rabbits foot and hoping like a child on christmas morning that this "discovery" will change religion sorry "christianity" forever..

Well it won't- too many people have too much faith in Christ but maybe just maybe it will help you to finally put to rest what you struggle with... Jesus

[skooter942000]

<font color="0000ff">From Bluewater2:

So, I do not attack Christ. I reject the idea
that there ever was a Christ, but a Jesus,
who lived and died, just like the rest of us.</font>

----------8< ----cut-----------------------

???





You state:

<font color="0000ff">QUOTE:
So, I do not attack Christ. </font>


<font color="0000ff">QUOTE:
I reject the idea that there ever was a Christ,</font>



- Yeah, that makes sense.


LIKE:

- Can't have Lemonade, without Real Lemons.


- (Fake Ingredients Aside) http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif




You must be playing with the Definitions here.
- (Right)?



Knowing what these NAMES and TITLES actually mean.

JESUS = YAH'S SAVIOR
CHRIST = THE ANOINTED ONE

|
|
V

Exd 3:14 = Jhn 6:48




Blue,

Can't have ONE, (Without the OTHER)

-Get it? (Think about it)

[skooter942000]

From Rachel:

like anything else that pertains to the body..the bones and the true life and legacy of Jesus Christ it is impossible to know..

--------------------8< ----cut----------------

You mean to PROVE , - (right)?

We who Believe (Already know).

It is Science that has to Prove this.
And it can't.

Knowing DNA (and how it works).





TWO samples = "ONE" - PROOF

evidence sample
reference sample

- What have they "GOT"?


http://dna-view.com/profile.htm

'i' see a door , set before us,
- for DOUBT to work in.


- Any takers? (Rev 3:8)

[ba2]

Totally meaningless. This is not like proving the world is not flat. Science can support evidence of science but this is not science, it is a belief. But even if they could get DNA out of those bones, what would it prove? Do we have anyone who can prove they descended directly from Mary or, not that matters to most Christians, Joseph? I don’t think so which makes comparisons impossible. So the fundamentalists will simply add this to their list of complaints that the world is persecuting them and ask for more money so that they can fight this attack.

bluewater,
Elvis is dead????? But I saw him in Vegas a few months ago.

[fatherofaking]

Elvis is dead?????


its funny, the guy never ages either.

[fatherofaking]

Science can support evidence of science but this is not science, it is a belief.


if this is true then they will have to change their beliefs from a bodily resurrection to a spiritual one.

if they did that then anyone can claim to have been raised from the dead.

[rachelengland]

Sorry scooter "prove" would have been a better word..but you have to admit Jesus sure rattles many cages more than any other religious figure we know and he just keeps on tickin'..

I imagine this little controversy will fade away pretty quick...then again I have been known to be wrong on a "rare" occasion...

[trainedobserver]

Well you know in the vernacular of the present day you would say that the Christian faith depends on Jesus being a zombie. Like a zombie he didn't heal from his death wounds yet did not bleed from them. However, unlike most modern zombies he still had his presence of mind intact.

You don't hear about the resurrections that happened at the moment of Christ's death. Surely something like that would scare the living be-jesus out the populace. Are mass resurrections reported in any 'historical' accounts? I am not completely familiar with historical accounts of that period. You'd think such a thing would have made it into someones records.

[ba2]

fof,
you said, <font color="0000ff">“if this is true then they will have to change their beliefs from a bodily resurrection to a spiritual one.”</font> Many Christians suggest that it was a spiritual resurrection, and this was also the case with many first century Christians, so not a big deal for many. But I go back to my earlier statement, what does the finding of a bunch of old bones prove? Even if you could get some DNA, it proves nothing at all, except maybe that they were of Jewish descent. It is like finding an old grave somewhere in Europe and claiming it belonged to “Attila” just because of a few artifacts that were near by. I say, "Follow the Money." What gain would someone have for making an outlandish and un-provable claim? Hmmmm, is there a book or movie to promote? Just like the DaVinci Code, a little fact, a lot of fiction. <font color="0000ff">Science is not at play here.</font>

[trainedobserver]

Jesus Christ &amp; Building 7

SANDY PRICE
Capitol Hill Blue
Wednesday, February 28, 2007
"Two news items that may shake the world we know appeared this week. The first one comes from a find in Jerusalem and has been called “The Lost Tomb of Jesus.” The second one comes from London where a news bulletin on September 11, 2001 shows a reporter reading that Building 7 fell along side the Twin Towers, when the building was obvious still standing.

Which story will take over our networks and minds? Let’s talk about it.
...
Is America living on a false myth? Should we investigate further into 9/11 because 70% of us do not believe our current Administration to tell us the truth about anything? Is finding the truth about the tomb found in
Jerusalem going to destroy Christians in general?"
--------------------------------------
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/280207Jesus.htm

[fatherofaking]

Science is not at play here


here is what i know about the science.

this is what i have gleaned from the articles i have read.
since i have not seen the documentary i do not know if i have all of the information.


first, they have shown through dna samples that the woman named mary magdeline (this is not what it says on the box) is not related to the one they believe is jesus.

they have also done some testing on a box that says it is jesus brother james.

they did not find this in the tomb with the rest.
they just wanted to show that it belonged there.

this test was a little unorthodox.
they compared scrapings from each box to determine if they belonged together.

apparently no one has ever done such a test before.

so there you have what i know.

if this is all they have besides some stats then there is little reason to give it any creedence.

however, i am sure that more will be revealed in the documentary.

i want to know about the dna test they did on the one who is supposed to be jesus son.

i am not sure if any other tests have been completed yet.

they must have something worthy of consideration if they had a news conference with the top archeologists and scientists that would have expertise in these areas.

even one of their most adamant opponants (the archelolgist that originally found the bones) said it is possible that they could be right.

he does need more convincing however.

[ba2]

fof
Right or not, there is no way to know. What if they find, through DNA testing, that the child was the offspring of the couple? So what? About all the archeologists can say is that the bodies are from the timeline when Jesus would have lived, nothing more. The names were very common back then. This was brought up a few years back when they found the burial of James, brother of Jesus. But which James and which Jesus? Again, no proof whatsoever. A little statistics might give a little more credence, but like I say to my fundamental friends when they discuss the literal accuracy of the bible, it only give credence for those who stretch the scientific or rational limits of evidence. Again, “Follow the Money” and think about the likelihood of finding someone’s body two thousand years after it was buried with no written documentation whatsoever about the burial. This doesn’t pass the smell test for me.

Anything is possible, but much more evidence is needed. Question, is there any writing from that era which describes the life of Jesus after the crucifixion? Is there any writing from that era which tells of his burial with his wife and child? Anything whatsoever that can connect this burial site with the biblical Jesus?

[fatherofaking]

BA2,

this is the information that is out there on the historicity of the man jesus.
as you will see much of it is disputed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

[yaakov2]

<font color="0000ff">Fatherofaking i want to know about the dna test they did on the one who is supposed to be jesus son.

Ba2 Is there any writing from that era which tells of his burial with his wife and child?</font>

What the??? I never knew that the jesus stories mentioned that he had offspring or had gotten married. Who did he marry? How many kids did he have?

[ba2]

fof,
I have seen these writings before. Much of it describes writings from 100’s of years after the fact. They have absolutely nothing to do with my question. I don’t think too many people question the statement that Jesus was a real historical person. Yes, some do, but at least there is some decent evidence for his existence. The question, other that what is in the NT, is there any writing from that time period which describes the life of Jesus AFTER the crucifixion? Is there any writing that can describe his burial with his theoretical wife and child which can give evidence that burial site may have been his? I really don’t know but I don’t think so.

[ba2]

yaakov, that is part of my point. The archeologist that found the burial site suggested claims to have found a wife and child buried with Jesus. These stories jumped from the DaVinci Code which, of course, was pretty much admitted to be fiction by the author. I could make up all sorts of stories about the life of any historical figure from 1000’s of years ago. Might make an interesting story, but how does something I totally made up to make some money in the story-telling business become fact? I ask my literalist fundamentalist acquaintances for good evidence for the facts presented in the bible, and I expect the same when someone provides so-called proof against those beliefs.

[trainedobserver]

The whole idea of identifying 2000 year old remains is preposterous. Good grief, have they been able to even ID Billy the Kid yet?

This strikes me as odd that such a "discovery" would occur at this particular time. It is diverting attention from Bush's preparations to attack Iran. The ships and air corridors are in place.
BBC and CNN have released "live 911" footage in which reporters were feed the story of WTC7s collapse over 20 minutes before it occurred. Both the BBC and CNN footage show the building standing in the background as they read the false report. Yes there are timestamps. In comparison, I think that the claims that James Cameron has unearthed the bones of Jesus Christ is largely unimportant and nothing but confusion, grief, division and diversion will come of it. Our government is conducting an illegal war and about to start another one at any moment. They censor the news (little or no coverage of the BBCWTC7 flap) and show is just what they want us to see. They want us to freak out over the discovery of the bones of a god-man and forget that they are on a world-wide homicidal rampage and are trying to dismantle the constitution.

[ba2]

trained,

you are even more cynical than me in regard to those bones. I certainly hope you are wrong about the impeding attack. But, it wouldn’t surprise me. But really, James Cameron???? He is a film maker.

Like I said, “Follow the Money”

[fatherofaking]

These stories jumped from the DaVinci Code which, of course,

that is not true.
these ideas came from 2nd century manuscripts (gnostic).

they are obscure references so no real conclusions can be drawn from them but that is where dan brown got the ideas.

he documented his sources.
that is why he states that although the overall story is fiction there are many facts throughout.




BBC and CNN have released "live 911" footage in which reporters were feed the story of WTC7s collapse over 20 minutes before it occurred.

doesn't this prove beyond a doubt that this attack was set up by whom ever released that report?

the diversion tactic is an interesting idea.
the word on the street is that that is the reason clinton attacked bosnia.
to take the heat off of the lewinski scandal.


yaakov,

i havn't been able to find any information about the dna test to determine if this is the son of the one that is suposed to be jesus that yet in all of the articles i have read.
i expect they are saving that for when the documentary airs.

there are many more questions than answers i think.
that would be the norm fo rsomething like this.

[trainedobserver]

"you are even more cynical"

Good gawd man, I pride myself on my sterling optimism. (cough, cough)

[ba2]

fof
You said, <font color="0000ff">“these ideas came from 2nd century manuscripts (gnostic).”</font> I don’t really recall much about those writings but, I thought they might have suggested that Jesus lived out his life in France. Even so, I don’t think the stories were first hand accounts. It was the book DaVinci Code which got this idea in motion, and Brown admitted this was primarily fiction. He wrote the book for entertainment and to make money. I’m not even sure he got the idea about Jesus living for a number of years after the crucifixion from any Gnostic writing. Nevertheless, although his writing might be considered historical fiction, fiction is fiction, period. This is a common tactic for writing interesting stories, take a little history, sprinkle in a little embellishment, throw in something outlandish and “bingo” you have a best seller. The danger of historical fiction is that people will tend to believe the story, historical fiction changes history.

This news clip says it all: <font color="119911">“Spearheaded by a well-known TV director named Simcha Jacobovici, and produced by "Titanic" director James Cameron, "The Jesus Family Tomb" is—both in book and movie form—a slick and suspenseful narrative about the 1980 discovery of a first-century Jewish burial cave and the 10 bone boxes, or ossuaries, found therein.”</font>

This whole notion of trying to prove whose bones these were seems preposterous.

I admit I don’t have a lot of knowledge about the Gnostic writings. Can you give a citation from any one of them which suggests Jesus was buried near Jerusalem with Mary M and a child? These were very common names back then, so it is not out of the question that a number of tombs might have included these names.

[fatherofaking]

Can you give a citation from any one of them which suggests Jesus was buried near Jerusalem with Mary M and a child?


to my knowledge nothing like that even exists.
if it did this story would have come out long ago.

the only thng available is obscure references that may indicate that jesus had an intimate relationship with mary magdeline.

they say that they found mary magdeline's bones next to those they believe belong to jesus.

[fatherofaking]

there is someone who claims to have documentation to prove that jesus had children.

some say they have seen it.
the guy who has it says it is not yet time to reveal it to the world.

i would imagine that will be next.

acording to the word on the street this is how someone is going to prove that they are the christ to the world.
that they are the rightful heir to the throne of david.

this is not confirmed by any experts.

[trainedobserver]

"that they are the rightful heir to the throne of david. "

It seems monarchies are on the way out though. I think most people find the very concept of "Royals" to be repugnant don't you?

[fatherofaking]

actually i think that most in the world would welcome a monarchy as they see democracy going the way of facism.

a self appointed savior saving everyone from the evils of government and religious persecution.

[trainedobserver]

Yikes. I really don't think so. We need to return to the Republic that we started out with.

[ba2]

trained, You got that one right.

[yaakov2]

<font color="0000ff">It seems monarchies are on the way out though. I think most people find the very concept of "Royals" to be repugnant don't you?</font>

TO, the messiah's bloodline to the House of David is just one test to determine who the real messiah is. However, even we Jews, are not expecting the messiah to become a king. He will be our political leader, something like a prime minister. Who knows what the final form will look like? We'll just have to wait and see.

[fatherofaking]

We need to return to the Republic that we started out with.

that would be nice but that is like saying we want to go back to the good ole days.

it is not going to happen.

i do think that the world is very much dull to the direction we are headed.

a new world order demands a new world leader.
i don't know how an educated person can't see that is going on right under our nose.


the world's governments are trying to take more power, there are race and religious wars going on everywhere.
our climate may be beyond repair.
whether it is a natural cycle that the earth is going through or not it is due for some catystrophic changes.
with a little help from it's friends of course (us).

technology is changing at an exponential rate and promising great things.
the risks are not being talked about.

tracking and communication are becoming ubiquitous.

despite all of the starvation, disease and genocide the population is also growing exponentially.

with all of these things happening at once in the next 25yrs the human race will certainly find itself in jeapordy of extinction.

i do not see any of these changes as positive in the long term.

the societies of the world are already fragmented beyond repair.
there are no longer any anchors.

few hold a worldview that fits with reality.
who can keep up anyway?
knowledge is changing so rapidly that it is quite difficult to know the truth from one day to the next for most.
most don't even try.
there is more psychological illness now than physical illness.


the signs are clear but the eyes are not.

[ba2]

Heard it before, the end is within our lifetime. That has been the message for at least the last 2,000 years.

[trainedobserver]

"Heard it before, the end is within our lifetime. That has been the message for at least the last 2,000 years."

That is one of the points I was trying to make. Nothing is any different now than when the "end of days" was 100s of years ago.

If you study religious movements in history, you'll find many such predictions of Armageddon being right around the corner. There is no more to it now than then.

Here is my thinking process on it.

1. People cannot predict the future. They can make reasonable and educated guesses but no fortune teller, mystic, or prophet has the ability to see the future. Science has not found a valid seer.
2. History is full of end-time cults and beliefs. NONE of them were RIGHT. NONE. History is our great teacher, we need to learn from it or we will repeat mistakes unnecessarily.
3. The phenomena of the self-fulfilled prophecy in is effect. Undo importance placed on the Jews, Israel, and the "promised land" is causing turmoil and division.

Therefore, I think it is reasonable to concur that end-time prophecies are unreliable and should be ignored in lue of actually trying to solve the problems.

[fatherofaking]

it is intersting that the first thing that comes up is end time prophecy.


not once did i mention the bible or any other religion.

there are many differences in the times we are living in than 100 or even 1000 yrs ago.

god or no god the signs are clear that our existance on this earth is in jeopardy.

[trainedobserver]

Ok, I think I've asked what prophecy you are concerned about. Did you tell me?

"god or no god the signs are clear that our existance on this earth is in jeopardy."

I wouldn't argue with that.

[fatherofaking]

there isn't any specifc prophecy that i am intersted in.

what i think is that the end time prophecies shouldn't be ignored.
i am refering to things in ancient texts not some crackpot on the street who couldn't back up his own car.

i agree that these prophecies can be interpreted in many ways.

the one undeniable aspect to them however is us.

The phenomena of the self-fulfilled prophecy in is effect

this is exactly what i am refering to.
for millinia mankind has been warned of the end times.

do to the human element we are not even able to observe this phenomanon without being a part of it.

it is inevitable that we will bring these times upon ourselves.
deciphering these prophecies down to the last detail is unimportant, but i do think that we can glean somethings from these prophecies to get some idea of what is going to happen.

i think if anyone agrees that mankind is in danger of extinction whether they believe in the existance of god or not cannot deny the loud cry from those that say i told you so.

if the signs are all around us then i would think some credence should be given to the prophetic aspect of these religions.

[ba2]

fof,
you said,<font color="0000ff"> “what i think is that the end time prophecies shouldn't be ignored.
i am refering to things in ancient texts not some crackpot on the street who couldn't back up his own car.”</font>
This is just plain crazy talk. Even if any of it was true, there is absolutely nothing to gain by listening to some end time prophesy but there is a lot to lose. The flim-flam artists jump on these beliefs. Gullible believers of an end time prophecy put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of. After all, if the end is near, why keep any of your hard earned cash. May as well give it away.

There have been numerous end of time predictions every generation throughout written history. None of them ever came to pass. Many of them were calculated by reading the ancient texts, such as the bible; still, none of them ever came to pass. Don’t believe anyone who makes an end of time prediction. You have nothing to gain, even if they were right. But when you hear someone talking about the impending end of time, hang on to your wallet.

What difference would it make anyway? If the end comes tonight, or if it comes in a billion years, what difference? In the long run, which is nothing more than an instance within the context of “forever”, no difference!

[trainedobserver]

<i>"what i think is that the end time prophecies shouldn't be ignored. ... to get some idea of what is going to happen."<i>

How would you use this information?

Speaking of fortune telling and seeing the future have you checked out the BBC/CNN WTC 7 911 report scandel?

Our immediate problem seems to be the oligarchy that runs the world, the gnomes of Z&uuml;rich as JFK called them. The untouchables. After that social order thing gets straightened out we need to seriously start thinking of preservation of the species. The U.N. should have some dept (heck maybe they already do) devoted to preserving things in the form of seed vaults, DNA, and frozen egg/sperm banks. We need to get such a thing set up on some other planet. All of our eggs are in one basket right now. An asteroid, solar flare, or any number of natural disasters could occur and wipe us out. Colonizing space is the ultimate destiny of the human species. Otherwise we face an inevitable extinction here on Earth. I think we'll see terraforming become a reality and we'll make more 'earths' were we can. Not only is this attitude necessary it is 100 times more exciting than the usual revenge cycle nonsense we're caught up in now.

(Message edited by trainedobserver on March 02, 2007)

[fatherofaking]

i don't think everything should be dismissed as coincedence or hoax so easily.

there is some science backing up what is written in these ancient texts.

the fact that these things are so far apart in time and culture and have so much in common should justify some investigation..
especially now with science showing us that these things could and are happening.


this is just one of many stories that can be found about the changes that are occuring now.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/10mar_stormwarning.htm

there is no need of course to mention global warming, now changed to the politically correct "climate change".

there are similarities in the cylclical claenders of various cultures such as ending on the same day.
there are corralations with the myhology of many religions regarding the cyclical nature of the universe.

to think that they can be offhandedly dismissed as coincidence or hoaxes would be to deny a large part of our humanity.
these things were written by our ancestors for us.

it makes little difference if you believe in god or not it does not diminish the importance of the writings.

[fatherofaking]

more exciting than the usual revenge cycle nonsense we're caught up in now.


i have been trying to seperate myself from that mentality from the beginning.


How would you use this information?

i am concerned about the trend that i see towards destruction.
it seems there are still many that need convincing.

the coming changes have the potential to ensue chaos in many regions of the earth.

[fatherofaking]

Speaking of fortune telling and seeing the future have you checked out the BBC/CNN WTC 7 911 report scandel?

i did peruse some things.
have you seen the footage?
is it credible?

i didn't spend much time with it because i really didn't need any convincing.

the new world order is just a part of the scenario.

[fatherofaking]

why is it that we seperate ourselves form one another?

who is it that is seperate from the earth?
are we not all not from the same place?
what one of us does not belong to the earth?

is is time we develope a new perspective of who we are.

[trainedobserver]

"i did peruse some things.
have you seen the footage?
is it credible?"


I'm afraid that it is. The lack of anything in the mainstream media about this is disturbing.

[trainedobserver]

"i did peruse some things.
have you seen the footage?
is it credible?"


I'm afraid that it is. The lack of anything in the mainstream media about this is disturbing.

[fatherofaking]

The lack of anything in the mainstream media about this is disturbing.

it should come as no surprise that this is the case.

the fact that a report was issued to the media before an event ocurred shows who is in control of the disemanation of information and the events that are reported.