Familiar Spirits

[hillbilly (hillbilly)]

Are there familiar spirits that plague mankind? What biblical references to indicate such? Your thoughts?

[saved_by_grace (saved_by_grace)]

Bumping this up. I know it is a strange question; however, I recently spoke to an individual who felt that Christians could be attacked by familiar spirits. I personally think that God could and would protect me from such attacks and have never experienced anything like this. I am not familiar with any biblical basis for such a thing. Is anyone else?

Thanks!

I will add that I realize the bible talks about certain people having demons; however, were these individuals saved? Etc.

(Message edited by saved by grace on January 26, 2005)

[franklin (franklin)]

Just ignore the thought of any of it. And pray daily for God to protect you from all those who choose to be your enemy.

[jeff_p (jeff_p)]

"Just ignore the thought of any of it."

Not great advice.

"Be selfcontrolled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8-9

Just look at any reference of Jesus dealing with demonic-spirits.
They almost in every case were God's people, a Jew. Even one case occured in the Temple itself.
There are drastic differences in the measure of influence they have on the person though. Do a Greek word study and this will be apparent.
Legion couldn't even be a member of society he was so dangerous. While another Jew came to worship in the Temple, Christ confronted the spirit oppressing him in the middle of His teaching.
Sin, generational curses, extended unforgiveness, practices in the occult, being sinned against (child, sexual abuse) and others are common ways people acquire demonic oppression.
'Oppression' can be health illnesses (like the crippled woman with back problems, epilepsy, deafness) to addiction.
The most common entry point: repeated sin.

Demons are like flies around garbage.
You don't keep the garbage in the basement, you bring it outside.
Yet, Christians keep darkness/garbage in themselves when they willfully repeatedly sin, get enbittered in holding unforgiveness, suffer sexual abuse, etc.
This gives the enemy a foothold.
No, it's not fair. But we're in a war.

I don't mean to make anybody paranoid. So many Christians swing to the extremes of not believing evil-spirits exist in scientific America or are looking behind every rock for the devil.

I've gone through two deliverances myself. I acquired a number of spirits through New Age meditation prior to my conversion. And a later deliverance occured envolving an addiction to pornography. There are no formulaic rules regarding this either. I've seen friends come to Christ that had been in much darker practices and didn't suffer any oppression - it's grace.

Once one commits their life to Chirst many of these critters willingly jump off the train.






(Message edited by jeff_p on March 03, 2005)

[1baptism (1baptism)]

.
<font color="0000ff">Once one commits their life to Christ many of these critters willingly jump off the train.</font>

Very true, but I think it minimalizes the fact that once you are saved you are Christ's property and no one can snatch you out of his hands. Christ bought you for a price and you are his possession. Demons cannot penetrate nor take possession of anything that belongs to Christ.

All the way up until the time Jesus died on the cross, the Jews were still under The Law. The Holy Spirit wasn't given until Pentacost. Those who directly came to Christ and submitted to him were delivered by His miracles. Those who come to Christ today are delivered by receiving the Holy Spirit. We have the same results.

(Message edited by 1Baptism on March 04, 2005)

[jeff_p (jeff_p)]

The Greek never uses the word 'possessed.'
There are multiple terms with the most serious "daimonizomai.'
The NT more literally says 'demonized' or 'inflicted by demons'. You're correct in that a Christian's will can not be possessed.

Discern and follow The Spirit's leading, but it's typically best to not cast a demon out of a non-believer (it's possible, we have the authority to) unless they express they're willing to submit their life to Christ. Without the Holy Spirit, darkness will come back with many more spirits for enforcement in an unbeliever (though if confronted with the reality of the situation, most would be convinced of the reality of Christ). A friend and I learned this lesson the hard way in confronting a very violent spirit of racism in a homeless man (afterward he didn't want to go to church for some other reasns that had to be dealt with. And unfortunately as a result, was later found in a more imprisoned state of mind later).

But Christians can be 'oppressed' (I don't like using that term because it implies that there's some formulaic two categories or measures of demonization which scripture does not support) by evil spirits.
Why would Paul continually warn us about battling them?
Why does God allow physical, financial, relational and emotional oppression to believers in this life. Yet for some reason He would automatically completely protect us from all spiritual oppression? Why would we need armor if we couldn't be assualted and hurt by spirits? How is this a biblical view?

Paul told the believers in Ephesus: “Neither give place to the devil” (Ephesians 4:27). This implies that it is possible for a Christian to give place to the devil.

Although the spirit of a born again Christian is regenerated, recreated and not possessable by evil spirits, the salvation of the soul is a process which is not automatic and requires firstly persistent faith in God, and secondly, knowledge of the truth. It is clear that evil spirits do have access to our minds to inject thoughts of all kinds from time to time. We must be watchful so that we do not accept these thoughts so as to let the evil one build strongholds in our mind that are not pleasing to God. There is a battle for the mind of every Christian. In order to keep demons out of our minds, we must fill our minds with something else. We must be full of the Holy Spirit and full of the Word. But this does not automatically happen at conversion.

[saygoodnightgracie]

I saw a familiar spirit the other day, it looked just like my ex girlfriend's mother (who looks and sounds exactly like Olive Oyl), and was moving about in the produce section of the grocery store I was in.

I am certain it was a familiar spirit because I had all of the same feelings of revulsion when I was dating my ex and the same fear of having Olive Oyl for a mother in law.

I grabbed a string of garlic and headed for the cereal aisle. Only unfamiliar spirits there.

[pro610]

Familiar Spirit is mentioned in the OLD Testament Leviticus 20:27 referring to witchcraft and wizards

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.(Lev 20:27)

[pro610]

ALL
Here is an excellent article by one of the greatest theologians of our time-the late John A Hardon.

Title
The Strategy of the Devil in Demonic Temptations

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Demonology/Demonology_001.htm

[cybermom]

I don't believe a born-again Christian can be possessed, but I do believe we are often vexed by different spirits. Familiar spirits? Perhaps. I know in literature they are associated with witchcraft. I also know I live near a cult (I'm a former member) who curse people on a daily basis, including me and my family. How do I know? Because I was in many meetings where curses were prayed over people - I know they wouldn't call it that, but when you're asking God to kill someone, what is that?? They pray against those of us who have left, and threatened one family that their house was going to burn if they left. Should we be afraid? Absolutely not! Because the enemy is a defeated foe and

1Jo 4:4 Children, you belong to God, and you have defeated these enemies. God's Spirit is in you and is more powerful than the one that is in the world.

[mcmstaff78]

Familiar spirits are spirits that hang around particular individuals, they are "familiar" with people, areas, etc. The danger is not in "possession", but in deception. These spirits seduce people away from the truth, or disguise themselves as Angels or Saints of God and twist the truth just enough to shipwreck the faith of those who listen to them.

There are many subtle forms of deception and the devil and his followers are, well, diabolically clever. Not just flagrant cults and pagan religions, but much of the lunacy we've seen from the Revivalist and Pentecostal movements beginning in the late 19th century I believe can be directly traced to deceiving, familiar spirits.

[cybermom]

mcm

I don't mean to argue - that is not my intention. What Scriptures do you use to support this? Just curious. It's an interesting topic. And since I many consider myself Pentecostal/charismatic/spirit-filled, I'm trying not to be offended by your last paragraph.

[skooter942000]

From: hillbilly

Are there familiar spirits that plague mankind? What biblical references to indicate such? Your thoughts?


---------------------------------



CHRIST and the SWINE...[Matt 8]
= A perfect example.





There are Evil Spirits.

When the MOON is FULL.
satan's influence is stronger.



Symbolism at it's best:

He is a False reflection of the TRUE LIGHT.

Think of the moon and how it appears to be lit-up,
- (compare its brilliance to the SUN).

- It can't compare.



- (It actually Pales in comparison)

- There is a JOKE there somewhere. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif





[Evil Spirits]


They are not everywhere,
- But they certainly Exist.

- Study up on the witch of endor.


CHRIST gave us power over them. (Luke 10:18-20)

CHRIST did not give us power over non existent
things. (they certainly do exist)




- Think about it.



Don <*))><

[mcmstaff78]

Cybermom,

It would seem to be the clear implication of the word "familiar" coupled with the few scriptures that speak of them. While familiar spirits are demonic or evil spirits, not all demonic spirits are familiar spirits.

As to being offended, it is not my intent to offend, but I believe the truth of my statement is demonstrable. Much of what went on with the Revival and Pentecostal movements in the late 19th century, and become normative in Pentecostal and neo-Pentecostal movements since, a mere 50 to 75 years prior were routinely considered demonic. I am firmly convinced the so-called "Pentecostal" movement and it's descendants have sprung from deception.

(Message edited by mcmstaff78 on March 30, 2007)

[arron]

familiar spirits are of the devil stay away from such things. we are not to have aby contact with them if we are saved.

[ezekiel_37]

familiar spirits are not human souls.

All human souls are with the Father, in Heaven...
not roaming the earth possessing folk, as with familiar spirits. What ever they are, they are old, bodiless, evil (some speculate the 'souls' of the giants who do not have the chance at a resurrection).

They are not the souls of people.

Many say that this explains or partially explains the "unknown tongues" phenomina

Any other thoughts?

In Christ
c

[grace2u]

I don't understand Don's emoticon above.

Ezekiel,

Not that I am supporting speaking in and unknown tongue (since it is almost unknown to me) but I think what you are indicating above doesn't explain speaking in an unknown tongue in the early church.

Just from a logical perspective I would think that you and I would both assume that the reference to speaking in an unknown tongue in the NT did not occur as a result of something evil.

I would imagine it is like anything else - satan attempts to imitate whatever God does.

[smyrna]

Arron talks out of two sides of his mouth, as does Franklin. They come from a website where satan's very existence is called into question.

See www.cultbusters.com.au (http://www.cultbusters.com.au) and read the Let's Talk About Satan thread there.

You'll be amazed!

[called]

because they are in cults themselfs! The blind trying to lead the blind!!!

[smyrna]

Hi Called,

I agree! You know I showed you how Franklin was using you as a pawn in his outer space game at Cultbusters a few months ago.

He claimed he was deprogramming you! That is, until I told you about it, and true to his nature, he ran away like a dog with his tail between his legs!
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[ezekiel_37]

Hi ther Grace2u
You wrote
<font color="ff0000">
Not that I am supporting speaking in and unknown tongue (since it is almost unknown to me) but I think what you are indicating above doesn't explain speaking in an unknown tongue in the early church.

</font>There is no such thing as unknown tongues in the bible...how "they" warped "translation of the Word" into "a secret prayer language" is beyond me.

How they confuse God's gift of Tongues(where EVERYONE understands 100%) into a babyl that is from a man's head and not the Thrown of God (where said preacher is the only one who knows what is being said-or maybe a partner in crime aswell), I know not.

<font color="ff0000">Just from a logical perspective I would think that you and I would both assume that the reference to speaking in an unknown tongue in the NT did not occur as a result of something evil.

</font>There is no such reference in the manuscripts to 'unknown' tongues. The word "unknown" 1Cor12-14 in the KJV is in italics because it was added into the translation. But I think I get what you are saying.

You may know that the whole biblical point in 1Cor12-14 is about getting the Word to the peoples by using translators. There is NO reference to a babyl language that is for heaven's ears only. That is simply a wrong theology spread into a deceiving practice. The Word was to be spread among the peoples of the world(eventually) in more than just the Greek language, or the Hebrew language. That is the point.

take your pick for the cause of Babyl in church

1. Demonic forces/familiar spirits speaking for/through said preacher. Deception

2. Bad scholarship. The preachers own mind convinced that what he/she is doing is communicating a perfect prayer to God. Ignorance.

3. A scammer, con man/woman. Deception


As for the people taken in by these preachers, they are caught up in an experience and believe that it is the Holy Spirit. They are hard to convince otherwise, but many come out of the lie, when they become honest about their relationship with Christ. Some do it because others do it....keeping up with the Jones'.

<font color="ff0000">I would imagine it is like anything else - satan attempts to imitate whatever God does.

</font>This is soooooo true.

Peace in Christ
c

[grace2u]

Wow Zeke,

I'm not really the appropriate person to be defending this doctrine but from a logical standpoint I do have issues with what you are saying up there and here is why:

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for <u>no</u> man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This would seem to indicate that this tongue is different than what was experienced in Acts since NO man understands it and that is probably why the KJs translators indicated that it was "unknown" and not "foreign".

Regarding this - I think I may have experienced this probably a relatively small number of times in my life that I'm aware of. I do question whether it was my mind playing tricks on me - probably because of being taught views that resulted in a lack of faith like views similar to your point of view above.

Still if one steps back and takes an objective review of the situation this is what you find.

I agree about taking out the italics but when you do that you get this:

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit speaketh mysteries.

The context is still the same. If you speak in a tongue but no mn understandeth him - that is in essence an "unknown tongue".

You apparently could indeed pray in an unknown tongue:

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Still - I think (and I am careful to say this since I cannot look into anyone's heart) - that what takes place in churches today does not follow the guidelines etc. that was described in 1 Corinthians 14.

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

[grace2u]

Isn't it interesting that when the KJ's translators translated the following they did not use the term "unknown"; however, we seem to always read this in that context:

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

In fact if you look at the verse that this refers to:

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

It would indicate that this indeed includes "known" tongues.

[ezekiel_37]

Hello there Grace2U,

We would have to go through the chapters12-14 entirely to understand the thought(s) being presented by Paul. I have done this many times.

If we take a verse without the surrounding verses, it can lead to an incorrect understanding of the Word. I am not saying that this is what you do, but I believe that it becomes evident after careful study of these chapters, that the point being presented is not a private unknown prayer language, but rather translating the Word and Revelation of the Savior into other languages besides greek and/or hebrew, and preaching sermons in the foreign peoples own tounge(language) for "language(s)" is what the word is in the manuscripts...."

greek....glossa {gloce-sah')


<font color="0000ff">1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. </font>

if a preacher was to go into a foreign land and speak his own native language (tongue) then his sermon would go to waist for only God and the angels would understand his sermon. The foreign people would not.

<font color="ff0000">This would seem to indicate that this tongue is different than what was experienced in Acts since NO man understands it and that is probably why the KJs translators indicated that it was "unknown" and not "foreign". </font>

I agree completely. This is not the gift of tongues(as in Acts), but an explination of how to present the Gospel to those who don't speak our language.

<font color="0000ff">1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
</font>

To me this says, if one (a new believer)prays, repeating what is said without understanding it (as foreigners might)... saying a prayer in hebrew, when greek is the only language that you understand....then that one would have a heart for God, but wouldn't have a clue what he was praying and isn't learning, but imitating.


<font color="0000ff">1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.</font>

This is more directions for interpreters.
No confusion aloud. Order and understanding only. So, therefore when you(any Christian) go out into the nations to spread the Gospel of Christ speak only the two of you...the preacher and the interpreter (just as we have translators today....same exact thing)Two of you on the stage at a time. One to preach and one to translate.

...but no more than three of you...for more than that would be confusion. So make it orderly and after each person speaks, translate the message to the populous.

I like the way your thinking about the 13th chapter

13:1 to me says that if I do not have charity, then all my preaching knowledge is useless and my voice will not speak forever, but rather tinkle a little and fade out.

13:8....Charity shall outlive those others mentioned. It is worth MUCH, compared with the others

Peace in Christ
c

[grace2u]

That's an interesting analysis. I'll have to think about it.

There is still a significant difference in what is being referred to here and what has taken place in Acts. In Acts people heard and understood their own tongues. We have a different situation here and also a reference to the tongue being spoken to God and not men. I think that is a significant issue that wasn't appropriately addressed in your response.

Peace2u

[grace2u]

I mean if "in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" . . He is obviously speaking "in the spirit" here and your example would indicate that he is - as you said - "wasting" his time.

I don't think that this is what is being indicated.

I heard a charismatic preacher liken it to this and I kinda liked what he said. In your spirit you are moaning the utterances of what is deep down in your heart that you may not even know about (and the Holy Spirit is bringing these to be known). From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

This is you praying for what you really intellectually understand what to pray for. Your mind doesn't know it but your heart does.

It is important for this to be interpreted because if you are a believer in Christ this thing deep in your heart is most likely to have been placed there by God (at least that is my understanding of what I heard). You need this interpreted to guide you to your destiny.

Yes, the Bible is still your road map but you do have the Holy Spirit living in you and uses this to help you interpret how to live a Christian life and become who God intended for you to be for His honor and glory.

[ezekiel_37]

Hi there Grace2U

I have been around this subject many times. And I do agree with you about your last statement. The events in Acts was the Cloven Tongue, a gift of God, use to spread the Word without an interpreter. Each and every person that heard them Preach, heard the Sermon in their own dialect, understood it completely without need of interpretation.

1Cor14 does not address this at all. It rather speaks of order in translation of the Word into different languages, the different languages of the peoples in the middle east....of which Corrinth was a melting pot of culture...with many different ways to worship ones "god" and even the God. Rules and regulations.

Have a great day Grace

Peace in Christ
c

[arron]

smyrna YOU LIAR now i dont know about franklin but i dont talk pout of the sodes of my mouth i do believe in satan but he doesnt have any power over me unless GOD gives it to him and GOD isnt in that thype of business today. familiar spirits are of the devil and if you had any senses you would know so. faranklin believes in satan also not like you scers who believe anything as man teaches and what the one you are folowing teaches is a liar. so shut up about me at least. that is one reason i havent been to this site latly because of the lies and the ones that will call anyone who is of the truth a liar

[ezekiel_37]

I have started a new thread entitles "1Cor14" What does it teach.

Peace in Christ
c

[skooter942000]

grace2u


<*><

<_*))><

<*))><

<><


- it is the SIGN of the FISH.


It is a CHRISTIAN SYMBOL. (nothing more)

Used in the earlier days (Of the CHURCH).
To show where a MEETING WAS TO TAKE PLACE.

<font color="aa00aa">
IXOYE / ICHTHUS =

"JESUS"
"CHRIST"
"SON"
of "GOD"
"SAVIOR"</font>

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/symbols/fish.htm

[skooter942000]

Tongues means LANGUAGE in the MANUSCRIPTS.


nothing more = (Glossa)


tongue

1100. glossa gloce-sah' of uncertain affinity;
the tongue; by implication,
<font color="ff0000">a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):
</font>--tongue.


It is "not" ones NATURAL BIRTH LANGUAGE.
It is a second or third(...+) - Learned LANGUAGE.

Some people are gifted (in speaking more than
ONE language) To share the GOSPEL to other peoples.





ALSO

*if* one does not speak another language,
an interpreter will be needed,
- (If you go traveling).



Say i speak English alone,
&amp; ( i go to Mexico).
-To SERVE THE LORD.

I do not speak but a few words of Spanish.

(I had better take someone with me)
- to help bring forth the message!!!!!

Someone to TRANSLATE what i say to their LANGUAGE. (For their Edification)



When Reading the WORD (In the NT),
insert the WORD "LANGUAGE" for "TONGUE".


SIMPLE/SIMPLE





The CLOVEN TONGUE is a Different GIFT.
- (From ACTS CHAPTER TWO)!!!


All peoples who hear this spoken,
- (Will clearly understand).

No interpreter is needed.
And all people will hear the MESSAGE,
in their NATIVE TONGUE!!!!
- Down to the very dialect.



(GOD'S SPIRIT) does the interpreting.
- No one else!!!


(http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif)